Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Adam Holmberg]

Thanks for the discussion and input. It seems like this thread has run its
course, so I'm hoping to bring it to a close with the following:

for 4.0:
- Update documentation removing any claim of support for Python2 (but do
not actually break).
Introduce warning when running in Python 2.7.
I created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16414

decoupled:
- Backport Python 3 support at least to 3.11. I noticed there was already a
ticket:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16403
This makes sense since I believe the intent is to support 3.11 for a good
while longer. Going back to 3.0 could be tackled as part of that ticket, or
possibly abandoned if we decide the length of time left supporting that
line does not warrant it (or as Sumanth points out, we don't want big
changes there).

- Make packaging and internal tooling work with Python3. This is
multifaceted. There was already this:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16396
And I expect others will crop up as our desire to get off Python2
increases, but I don't know if there is a forcing function for the project
right now.


On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 10:44 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From the "Supported upgrade path for 4.0" discussion, it seems like there
> was consensus around supporting the "3.0 -> 4.0" upgrade path as well (in
> addition to 3.11 -> 4.0), so we may need to add python3 support for 3.0 as
> well?
>
> Internally. we had a need to make 3.0 cqlsh python3 compatible, and I ended
> up backporting trunk pylib, cqlsh, cqlsh.py for python3 support and
> reverted https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-14825 (this
> backport is currently being tested). Haven't assessed the impact on dtest
> environment yet. This approach was much less effort vs cherry-picking
> individual changes, but involves probably equal or more testing effort. If
> we decide to add python3 support for 3.0, I am happy to contribute this
> once we have enough confidence from testing (but unsure if we have
> the appetite for this big a change in 3.0).
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 3:01 AM Benjamin Lerer <
> benjamin.le...@datastax.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Considering the issue with pip. I agree that we should remove support for
> > 3.0 and ensure that python 3 is supported by 3.11.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:18 PM Jonathan Ellis 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Python 2 was EOLed over a year ago.  I think it's fine to (1) require
> > > python 3 to run cqlsh and (2) remove code that supports python 2
> whenever
> > > it's convenient.
> > >
> > > Angelo has the right idea that rather than trying to finesse a
> > deprecation
> > > cycle into 4.0 at this late date, a better migration path can be
> provided
> > > by backporting python3 support to 3.11.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:36 PM Brandon Williams 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:09 PM Adam Holmberg
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > I want to emphasize here: to my way of thinking, "dropping support"
> > at
> > > > this
> > > > > juncture is just a matter of documenting it, and maybe introducing
> a
> > > > > warning. We don't need to *remove* support for python2. It will
> > > continue
> > > > to
> > > > > work as-is. This would just guide us in deciding whether to work on
> > > flaws
> > > > > that are python2-specific, and whether new things are developed
> with
> > > > > backwards compatibility as a forcing concern.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I think we have to go a little bit further, and at least as
> > > > far as packaging is concerned, remove support for python2.  Recently
> > > > pip updated to 21.0 and removed python2 support, which broke any
> > > > builds that built artifacts requiring pip.  We now pin pip:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/apache/cassandra-builds/commit/54c45a9bcf9b36a3f78b7d773eaf1067483b49b8
> > > > to get around this, but highlights that we too need to move away from
> > > > anything using python2.  So while we would not modify code to
> *remove*
> > > > python2 support, you would have to invoke python2 on the code in your
> > > > own way, since the packages would depend on python3.
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Ellis
> > > co-founder, http://www.datastax.com
> > > @spyced
> > >
> >
>


-- 
Adam Holmberg
e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
w. www.datastax.com

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Sumanth Pasupuleti]

>From the "Supported upgrade path for 4.0" discussion, it seems like there
was consensus around supporting the "3.0 -> 4.0" upgrade path as well (in
addition to 3.11 -> 4.0), so we may need to add python3 support for 3.0 as
well?

Internally. we had a need to make 3.0 cqlsh python3 compatible, and I ended
up backporting trunk pylib, cqlsh, cqlsh.py for python3 support and
reverted https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-14825 (this
backport is currently being tested). Haven't assessed the impact on dtest
environment yet. This approach was much less effort vs cherry-picking
individual changes, but involves probably equal or more testing effort. If
we decide to add python3 support for 3.0, I am happy to contribute this
once we have enough confidence from testing (but unsure if we have
the appetite for this big a change in 3.0).



On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 3:01 AM Benjamin Lerer 
wrote:

> Considering the issue with pip. I agree that we should remove support for
> 3.0 and ensure that python 3 is supported by 3.11.
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:18 PM Jonathan Ellis  wrote:
>
> > Python 2 was EOLed over a year ago.  I think it's fine to (1) require
> > python 3 to run cqlsh and (2) remove code that supports python 2 whenever
> > it's convenient.
> >
> > Angelo has the right idea that rather than trying to finesse a
> deprecation
> > cycle into 4.0 at this late date, a better migration path can be provided
> > by backporting python3 support to 3.11.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:36 PM Brandon Williams 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:09 PM Adam Holmberg
> > >  wrote:
> > > > I want to emphasize here: to my way of thinking, "dropping support"
> at
> > > this
> > > > juncture is just a matter of documenting it, and maybe introducing a
> > > > warning. We don't need to *remove* support for python2. It will
> > continue
> > > to
> > > > work as-is. This would just guide us in deciding whether to work on
> > flaws
> > > > that are python2-specific, and whether new things are developed with
> > > > backwards compatibility as a forcing concern.
> > >
> > > Actually, I think we have to go a little bit further, and at least as
> > > far as packaging is concerned, remove support for python2.  Recently
> > > pip updated to 21.0 and removed python2 support, which broke any
> > > builds that built artifacts requiring pip.  We now pin pip:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/apache/cassandra-builds/commit/54c45a9bcf9b36a3f78b7d773eaf1067483b49b8
> > > to get around this, but highlights that we too need to move away from
> > > anything using python2.  So while we would not modify code to *remove*
> > > python2 support, you would have to invoke python2 on the code in your
> > > own way, since the packages would depend on python3.
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Ellis
> > co-founder, http://www.datastax.com
> > @spyced
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Benjamin Lerer]

Considering the issue with pip. I agree that we should remove support for
3.0 and ensure that python 3 is supported by 3.11.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:18 PM Jonathan Ellis  wrote:

> Python 2 was EOLed over a year ago.  I think it's fine to (1) require
> python 3 to run cqlsh and (2) remove code that supports python 2 whenever
> it's convenient.
>
> Angelo has the right idea that rather than trying to finesse a deprecation
> cycle into 4.0 at this late date, a better migration path can be provided
> by backporting python3 support to 3.11.
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:36 PM Brandon Williams 
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:09 PM Adam Holmberg
> >  wrote:
> > > I want to emphasize here: to my way of thinking, "dropping support" at
> > this
> > > juncture is just a matter of documenting it, and maybe introducing a
> > > warning. We don't need to *remove* support for python2. It will
> continue
> > to
> > > work as-is. This would just guide us in deciding whether to work on
> flaws
> > > that are python2-specific, and whether new things are developed with
> > > backwards compatibility as a forcing concern.
> >
> > Actually, I think we have to go a little bit further, and at least as
> > far as packaging is concerned, remove support for python2.  Recently
> > pip updated to 21.0 and removed python2 support, which broke any
> > builds that built artifacts requiring pip.  We now pin pip:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/apache/cassandra-builds/commit/54c45a9bcf9b36a3f78b7d773eaf1067483b49b8
> > to get around this, but highlights that we too need to move away from
> > anything using python2.  So while we would not modify code to *remove*
> > python2 support, you would have to invoke python2 on the code in your
> > own way, since the packages would depend on python3.
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jonathan Ellis
> co-founder, http://www.datastax.com
> @spyced
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Jonathan Ellis]

Python 2 was EOLed over a year ago.  I think it's fine to (1) require
python 3 to run cqlsh and (2) remove code that supports python 2 whenever
it's convenient.

Angelo has the right idea that rather than trying to finesse a deprecation
cycle into 4.0 at this late date, a better migration path can be provided
by backporting python3 support to 3.11.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:36 PM Brandon Williams  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:09 PM Adam Holmberg
>  wrote:
> > I want to emphasize here: to my way of thinking, "dropping support" at
> this
> > juncture is just a matter of documenting it, and maybe introducing a
> > warning. We don't need to *remove* support for python2. It will continue
> to
> > work as-is. This would just guide us in deciding whether to work on flaws
> > that are python2-specific, and whether new things are developed with
> > backwards compatibility as a forcing concern.
>
> Actually, I think we have to go a little bit further, and at least as
> far as packaging is concerned, remove support for python2.  Recently
> pip updated to 21.0 and removed python2 support, which broke any
> builds that built artifacts requiring pip.  We now pin pip:
>
> https://github.com/apache/cassandra-builds/commit/54c45a9bcf9b36a3f78b7d773eaf1067483b49b8
> to get around this, but highlights that we too need to move away from
> anything using python2.  So while we would not modify code to *remove*
> python2 support, you would have to invoke python2 on the code in your
> own way, since the packages would depend on python3.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
>
>

-- 
Jonathan Ellis
co-founder, http://www.datastax.com
@spyced

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Brandon Williams]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:09 PM Adam Holmberg
 wrote:
> I want to emphasize here: to my way of thinking, "dropping support" at this
> juncture is just a matter of documenting it, and maybe introducing a
> warning. We don't need to *remove* support for python2. It will continue to
> work as-is. This would just guide us in deciding whether to work on flaws
> that are python2-specific, and whether new things are developed with
> backwards compatibility as a forcing concern.

Actually, I think we have to go a little bit further, and at least as
far as packaging is concerned, remove support for python2.  Recently
pip updated to 21.0 and removed python2 support, which broke any
builds that built artifacts requiring pip.  We now pin pip:
https://github.com/apache/cassandra-builds/commit/54c45a9bcf9b36a3f78b7d773eaf1067483b49b8
to get around this, but highlights that we too need to move away from
anything using python2.  So while we would not modify code to *remove*
python2 support, you would have to invoke python2 on the code in your
own way, since the packages would depend on python3.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Adam Holmberg]

>
> Does anybody know what are the practicalities/hurdles
> that users can face when upgrading and what is the expected cost of keeping
> support for 2.7 until the next major?
>

Given that the code supports both, the only barrier to the user is "does my
distro have python3 (most likely), or would I have to install it?".

The cost of keeping support is a small amount of drag as we consider fixing
bugs and maintaining compatibility. It's not huge, but I don't see a lot of
reasons to incur it.

I want to emphasize here: to my way of thinking, "dropping support" at this
juncture is just a matter of documenting it, and maybe introducing a
warning. We don't need to *remove* support for python2. It will continue to
work as-is. This would just guide us in deciding whether to work on flaws
that are python2-specific, and whether new things are developed with
backwards compatibility as a forcing concern.

I'll have to catch up on the other ticket and see what bearing it has on
this discussion.


On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>
> > +1 nb.
> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x or
> > 5.0?
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
> for
> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
> development
> > > and
> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
> Python
> > 2.
> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2,
> so
> > > I'm
> > > > raising one here.
> > > >
> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at
> > this
> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do
> > in
> > > a
> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to
> > wait
> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
> like
> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
> don't
> > > know
> > > > when that will be.
> > > >
> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not
> be
> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has
> not
> > > had
> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
> would
> > > do
> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
> > advertise
> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
> > concerned
> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime
> > > [3].
> > > >
> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Holmberg
> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> > > > w. www.datastax.com
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> > > > [2]
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=GgOKQUoTLCKbKh1M_uCZ-t7CW3HHZHE_I4OFzjDOiIs=PHNtl_WeGlGcuZQ1iwiajdr1eBZpuu1uxx8Ty-LCtiw=dDf0vhcr06PYYRjqcO9iwAWvN109cwYQNF6k9odIMIs=
> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


-- 
Adam Holmberg
e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
w. www.datastax.com

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Benjamin Lerer]

While discussing with Mick in an external discussion, he raised the fact
that the project approach has always been to deprecate features/support in
one major version and remove them in the following one.
Due to the fact that 4.0 took so long, we did not respect that approach for
the Windows scripts and it might make sense to do the same for python 2 as
it is EOL but we should also consider that it might not be the best way of
doing things.

A big part of the problem here is caused by the fact that we do not have
any idea of when the next major release will be. It might be good to
discuss to have more visibility  on this point before deciding about our
approach for python 2.
I will fire a thread to discuss the plan for the future major release.

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 11:02 AM Benjamin Lerer 
wrote:

> According to some study I found here
> 
> it seems that not all the organizations are ready regarding python 3. I am
> not a python expert. Does anybody know what are the
> practicalities/hurdles that users can face when upgrading and what is the
> expected cost of keeping support for 2.7 until the next major?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:39 AM Benjamin Lerer <
> benjamin.le...@datastax.com> wrote:
>
>> We have a check in CQLSH that prevents it to start if the python version
>> is lower than python 2.7. I am fine dropping support for python 2 as long
>> as we make it explicits in the NEWS.txt and that we add a warning in CQLSH
>> to notify python 2 users that it is not supported anymore and might not
>> work properly.
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
>> sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
>>> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>>>
>>> > +1 nb.
>>> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
>>> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
>>> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x
>>> or
>>> > 5.0?
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
>>> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
>>> > >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
>>> > > +1
>>> > >
>>> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
>>> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
>>> for
>>> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
>>> development
>>> > > and
>>> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
>>> Python
>>> > 2.
>>> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't
>>> seen a
>>> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python
>>> 2, so
>>> > > I'm
>>> > > > raising one here.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support
>>> at
>>> > this
>>> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to
>>> do
>>> > in
>>> > > a
>>> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need
>>> to
>>> > wait
>>> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
>>> like
>>> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
>>> don't
>>> > > know
>>> > > > when that will be.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should
>>> not be
>>> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that
>>> has not
>>> > > had
>>> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
>>> would
>>> > > do
>>> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
>>> > advertise
>>> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit
>>> by
>>> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
>>> > concerned
>>> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL
>>> runtime
>>> > > [3].
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Adam Holmberg
>>> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
>>> > > > w. www.datastax.com
>>> > > >
>>> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
>>> > > > [2]
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=Jad7nE1Oab1mebx31r7AOfSsa0by8th6tCxpykmmOBA=crUhrXldycHqWKNgLahLKHtKL6pfe5rjVY5WXeujMCc=kU1jF8FeM_Jy4RoyW51BF9BMZV8gnSfQIG_GAup5PiQ=
>>> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Benjamin Lerer]

According to some study I found here

it seems that not all the organizations are ready regarding python 3. I am
not a python expert. Does anybody know what are the practicalities/hurdles
that users can face when upgrading and what is the expected cost of keeping
support for 2.7 until the next major?



On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:39 AM Benjamin Lerer 
wrote:

> We have a check in CQLSH that prevents it to start if the python version
> is lower than python 2.7. I am fine dropping support for python 2 as long
> as we make it explicits in the NEWS.txt and that we add a warning in CQLSH
> to notify python 2 users that it is not supported anymore and might not
> work properly.
>
> +1
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
> sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
>> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>>
>> > +1 nb.
>> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
>> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
>> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x
>> or
>> > 5.0?
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
>> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
>> > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
>> > > +1
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
>> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
>> for
>> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
>> development
>> > > and
>> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
>> Python
>> > 2.
>> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen
>> a
>> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python
>> 2, so
>> > > I'm
>> > > > raising one here.
>> > > >
>> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at
>> > this
>> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to
>> do
>> > in
>> > > a
>> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to
>> > wait
>> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
>> like
>> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
>> don't
>> > > know
>> > > > when that will be.
>> > > >
>> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should
>> not be
>> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has
>> not
>> > > had
>> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
>> would
>> > > do
>> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
>> > advertise
>> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit
>> by
>> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
>> > concerned
>> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL
>> runtime
>> > > [3].
>> > > >
>> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Adam Holmberg
>> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
>> > > > w. www.datastax.com
>> > > >
>> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
>> > > > [2]
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=Jad7nE1Oab1mebx31r7AOfSsa0by8th6tCxpykmmOBA=crUhrXldycHqWKNgLahLKHtKL6pfe5rjVY5WXeujMCc=kU1jF8FeM_Jy4RoyW51BF9BMZV8gnSfQIG_GAup5PiQ=
>> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Benjamin Lerer]

We have a check in CQLSH that prevents it to start if the python version is
lower than python 2.7. I am fine dropping support for python 2 as long as
we make it explicits in the NEWS.txt and that we add a warning in CQLSH to
notify python 2 users that it is not supported anymore and might not work
properly.

+1




On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>
> > +1 nb.
> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x or
> > 5.0?
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
> for
> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
> development
> > > and
> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
> Python
> > 2.
> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2,
> so
> > > I'm
> > > > raising one here.
> > > >
> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at
> > this
> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do
> > in
> > > a
> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to
> > wait
> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
> like
> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
> don't
> > > know
> > > > when that will be.
> > > >
> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not
> be
> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has
> not
> > > had
> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
> would
> > > do
> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
> > advertise
> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
> > concerned
> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime
> > > [3].
> > > >
> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Holmberg
> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> > > > w. www.datastax.com
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> > > > [2]
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=Jad7nE1Oab1mebx31r7AOfSsa0by8th6tCxpykmmOBA=crUhrXldycHqWKNgLahLKHtKL6pfe5rjVY5WXeujMCc=kU1jF8FeM_Jy4RoyW51BF9BMZV8gnSfQIG_GAup5PiQ=
> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Sumanth Pasupuleti]

+1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:

> +1 nb.
> We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
> compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
> python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x or
> 5.0?
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova  >
> wrote:
>
> > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
> > +1
> >
> > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support for
> > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of development
> > and
> > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for Python
> 2.
> > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2, so
> > I'm
> > > raising one here.
> > >
> > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at
> this
> > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do
> in
> > a
> > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to
> wait
> > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would like
> > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we don't
> > know
> > > when that will be.
> > >
> > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not be
> > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has not
> > had
> > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we would
> > do
> > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
> advertise
> > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
> concerned
> > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime
> > [3].
> > >
> > > I look forward to the discussion.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adam Holmberg
> > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> > > w. www.datastax.com
> > >
> > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> > > [2] https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
> > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Yifan Cai]

+1 nb.
We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x or
5.0?

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova 
wrote:

> I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
> +1
>
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg 
> wrote:
>
> > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support for
> > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of development
> and
> > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for Python 2.
> > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2, so
> I'm
> > raising one here.
> >
> > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at this
> > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do in
> a
> > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to wait
> > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would like
> > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we don't
> know
> > when that will be.
> >
> > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not be
> > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has not
> had
> > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we would
> do
> > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't advertise
> > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be concerned
> > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime
> [3].
> >
> > I look forward to the discussion.
> >
> > --
> > Adam Holmberg
> > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> > w. www.datastax.com
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> > [2] https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
> > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Ekaterina Dimitrova]

I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
+1

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg 
wrote:

> As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support for
> cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of development and
> discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for Python 2.
> In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2, so I'm
> raising one here.
>
> 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at this
> milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do in a
> minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to wait
> for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would like
> majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we don't know
> when that will be.
>
> I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not be
> inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has not had
> python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we would do
> work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't advertise
> support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be concerned
> with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime [3].
>
> I look forward to the discussion.
>
> --
> Adam Holmberg
> e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> w. www.datastax.com
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> [2] https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Berenguer Blasi]

+1

On 22/1/21 21:14, Adam Holmberg wrote:
> As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support for
> cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of development and
> discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for Python 2.
> In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2, so I'm
> raising one here.
>
> 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at this
> milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do in a
> minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to wait
> for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would like
> majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we don't know
> when that will be.
>
> I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not be
> inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has not had
> python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we would do
> work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't advertise
> support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be concerned
> with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime [3].
>
> I look forward to the discussion.
>

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Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

[Angelo Polo]

Since python2 was completely removed from FreeBSD at the end of 2020, this
is a good idea from my perspective.

On a related note, since cassandra3 on FreeBSD was facing removal due to
the python2 dependency, I back-ported python3 compatibility to the 3.11
branch.
I've just created CASSANDRA-16403 to upstream this.

Best,
Angelo

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16403

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 9:14 PM Adam Holmberg 
wrote:

> As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support for
> cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of development and
> discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for Python 2.
> In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2, so I'm
> raising one here.
>
> 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at this
> milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do in a
> minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to wait
> for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would like
> majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we don't know
> when that will be.
>
> I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not be
> inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has not had
> python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we would do
> work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't advertise
> support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be concerned
> with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime [3].
>
> I look forward to the discussion.
>
> --
> Adam Holmberg
> e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> w. www.datastax.com
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> [2] https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
>