Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

[sebb]

The recent spammers have used quite unusual e-mail addresses, with
very long numbers in them.

On 19 August 2015 at 23:18, Ulrich Stärk  wrote:
> So how would you distinguish a spammer's subscription request from that of a 
> valid user? I certainly
> can't from looking at the email address alone.
>
> Uli
>
> On 17.08.15 14:46, sebb wrote:
>> On 17 August 2015 at 10:52, Gavin McDonald  wrote:
>>> So I checked the config for dev@community and it is set up as a normal dev@ 
>>> list operates.
>>>
>>> Therefore anyone can subscribe to the list and post.
>>>
>>> The only thing we can do here is change it to subscription moderation - 
>>> that is an on|off switch so therefore
>>> ALL subscription requests will have to be approved by a moderator.
>>>
>>> If you are ok with that I can make the change .
>>
>> +1 from me.
>>
>>
>>> I checked the logs and it looks like a mod has removed the subscription for 
>>> the user in this thread.
>>
>> That was me, sorry forgot to let the list know.
>>
>>> Let me know,
>>>
>>> Gav…
>>>
 On 17 Aug 2015, at 9:48 am, Ross Gardler  
 wrote:

 Not sure if it's possible (you reply made me think I may be mixing up 
 Google Groups features with our lists)

 Sent from my Windows Phone
 From: jan i 
 Sent: ‎8/‎17/‎2015 1:44 AM
 To: dev@community.apache.org 
 Cc: Roman Shaposhnik ; Apache Infrastructure 
 
 Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

 On 17 August 2015 at 10:24, Ross Gardler >>> > wrote:

> Moderating first posts would be better.
>
 +1 to that solution (did not know that was possible), that way the
 moderators to not get overloaded with work.

 Alternative would be to allow apache ID, and moderate others.

 rgds
 jan i.


>
> -Original Message-
> From: sebb [mailto:seb...@gmail.com ]
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 1:22 AM
> To: Roman Shaposhnik mailto:ro...@shaposhnik.org>>
> Cc: ComDev mailto:dev@community.apache.org>>; 
> Apache Infrastructure <
> infrastruct...@apache.org >
> Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at 
> ASF?
>
> This is a new subscription (send an e-mail to dev-log@community.a.o 
>  for
> details)
>
> Perhaps we need to consider moderated subscriptions for this list.
>
> On 16 August 2015 at 21:33, Roman Shaposhnik  > wrote:
>> This email echoing keeps happening. I thought we've dealt with it, no?
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: 田義忠 mailto:name0905189...@icloud.com>>
>> Date: Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 1:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at
> ASF?
>> To: "dev@community.apache.org " 
>> mailto:dev@community.apache.org>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 從我的 iPhone 傳送
>>
>>> Roman Shaposhnik mailto:ro...@shaposhnik.org>> 於 
>>> 2015年8月17日 04:25 寫道：
>>>
 On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Shane Curcuru >>> >
> wrote:
> On 8/7/15 7:53 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Bill,
> So I can release "Niclas Hadoop platform, based on Apache Hadoop"
> ?? I thought the discussion a few years ago was that this was
> misleading...

 No, you cannot.  See our actual trademark policy:


 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fwww 
 
 .apache.org 
 %2ffoundation%2fmarks%2ffaq%2f%23products&data=01%7c01%7c
 ross.gardler%40microsoft.com 
 %7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a6dced17%7c72
 f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DdcuJh%2bbhphaiy7yoW%2f2caG
 y15TIxfrsXg1V%2fHh9Jsg%3d

 Our release policy, as Roman originally asked about, applies only to
 ASF projects, and has no bearing on third parties.  However our
 trademark policy, and trademark law, prevents third parties from
 publicly providing software using our trademarks.

 Our operational policies only apply to our projects, just like any
 other corporation.  Some policies, like our license itself and our
 formal trademark policy, inform the rest of the world how they are
 allowed to use our websites, software code, and brands.

 Make sense?
>>>
>>> It does, but our relationships with downstream Linux vendors (just to
>>> take the most obviou

Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

[Ulrich Stärk]

So how would you distinguish a spammer's subscription request from that of a 
valid user? I certainly
can't from looking at the email address alone.

Uli

On 17.08.15 14:46, sebb wrote:
> On 17 August 2015 at 10:52, Gavin McDonald  wrote:
>> So I checked the config for dev@community and it is set up as a normal dev@ 
>> list operates.
>>
>> Therefore anyone can subscribe to the list and post.
>>
>> The only thing we can do here is change it to subscription moderation - that 
>> is an on|off switch so therefore
>> ALL subscription requests will have to be approved by a moderator.
>>
>> If you are ok with that I can make the change .
> 
> +1 from me.
> 
> 
>> I checked the logs and it looks like a mod has removed the subscription for 
>> the user in this thread.
> 
> That was me, sorry forgot to let the list know.
> 
>> Let me know,
>>
>> Gav…
>>
>>> On 17 Aug 2015, at 9:48 am, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure if it's possible (you reply made me think I may be mixing up 
>>> Google Groups features with our lists)
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>> From: jan i 
>>> Sent: ‎8/‎17/‎2015 1:44 AM
>>> To: dev@community.apache.org 
>>> Cc: Roman Shaposhnik ; Apache Infrastructure 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?
>>>
>>> On 17 August 2015 at 10:24, Ross Gardler >> > wrote:
>>>
 Moderating first posts would be better.

>>> +1 to that solution (did not know that was possible), that way the
>>> moderators to not get overloaded with work.
>>>
>>> Alternative would be to allow apache ID, and moderate others.
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> jan i.
>>>
>>>

 -Original Message-
 From: sebb [mailto:seb...@gmail.com ]
 Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 1:22 AM
 To: Roman Shaposhnik mailto:ro...@shaposhnik.org>>
 Cc: ComDev mailto:dev@community.apache.org>>; 
 Apache Infrastructure <
 infrastruct...@apache.org >
 Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

 This is a new subscription (send an e-mail to dev-log@community.a.o 
  for
 details)

 Perhaps we need to consider moderated subscriptions for this list.

 On 16 August 2015 at 21:33, Roman Shaposhnik >>> > wrote:
> This email echoing keeps happening. I thought we've dealt with it, no?
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: 田義忠 mailto:name0905189...@icloud.com>>
> Date: Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 1:27 PM
> Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at
 ASF?
> To: "dev@community.apache.org " 
> mailto:dev@community.apache.org>>
>
>
>
>
> 從我的 iPhone 傳送
>
>> Roman Shaposhnik mailto:ro...@shaposhnik.org>> 於 
>> 2015年8月17日 04:25 寫道：
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Shane Curcuru >> >
 wrote:
 On 8/7/15 7:53 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
 Bill,
 So I can release "Niclas Hadoop platform, based on Apache Hadoop"
 ?? I thought the discussion a few years ago was that this was
 misleading...
>>>
>>> No, you cannot.  See our actual trademark policy:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fwww 
>>> 
>>> .apache.org 
>>> %2ffoundation%2fmarks%2ffaq%2f%23products&data=01%7c01%7c
>>> ross.gardler%40microsoft.com 
>>> %7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a6dced17%7c72
>>> f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DdcuJh%2bbhphaiy7yoW%2f2caG
>>> y15TIxfrsXg1V%2fHh9Jsg%3d
>>>
>>> Our release policy, as Roman originally asked about, applies only to
>>> ASF projects, and has no bearing on third parties.  However our
>>> trademark policy, and trademark law, prevents third parties from
>>> publicly providing software using our trademarks.
>>>
>>> Our operational policies only apply to our projects, just like any
>>> other corporation.  Some policies, like our license itself and our
>>> formal trademark policy, inform the rest of the world how they are
>>> allowed to use our websites, software code, and brands.
>>>
>>> Make sense?
>>
>> It does, but our relationships with downstream Linux vendors (just to
>> take the most obvious example) set a very confusing precedent.
>>
>> Shane, if would be super helpful if you took a look at:
>>
 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fpkgs.org%2fsearch%2fhadoop&data=01%7c01%7cross.gardler%40microsoft.com%7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a

Re: Karma to comdev cwiki pages.

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sharan Foga  wrote:
> ...Just pinging this email again for edit access to the Comdev wiki. My
> confluence id is 'sharan'...

Looking at 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/spaces/viewspacesummary.action?key=COMDEV&showAllAdmins=true
the list of admins for the COMDEV wiki space is quite different from
this PMC's roster. And I'm not in that list so I cannot help.

If one of those admins can take a look, please also adjust that list
to better match
http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#comdev-pmc

-Bertrand

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[sebb]

Oops, sorry.

On 19 August 2015 at 13:25, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>
>
> On 2015-08-19 14:23, sebb wrote:
>>
>> I think chi.py is still broken - it says less than 2 mails in the last
>> quarter
>>
>>
> It says "less than two emails PER DAY", not 2 in total.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.

Re: Karma to comdev cwiki pages.

[Sharan Foga]

Hi All

Just pinging this email again for edit access to the Comdev wiki. My 
confluence id is 'sharan'.


I've tried creating an infra service request but they can't help me and 
say that only this mailing list can grant me karma.


Thanks
Sharan

On 21/07/2015 10:44, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi

Just pinging this email again for access to the comdev cwiki.

Thanks
Sharan

On 17/07/15 14:07, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi

Please could someone grant me karma to the comdev cwiki. My cwiki 
user is "sharan"


Thanks
Sharan

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[Daniel Gruno]

On 2015-08-19 14:23, sebb wrote:

I think chi.py is still broken - it says less than 2 mails in the last quarter



It says "less than two emails PER DAY", not 2 in total.

With regards,
Daniel.

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[sebb]

I think chi.py is still broken - it says less than 2 mails in the last quarter

On 19 August 2015 at 13:06, Francis De Brabandere  wrote:
> Thanks Sebb and Daniel, this looks already better :-) Great to have this
> tool available.
>
> And yes, we're not having a lot of activity on the PMC side.
>
> Cheers,
> Francis
>
> On 19 August 2015 at 11:32, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>
>> Do note: the mailing list issue HAS been fixed :)
>>
>>
>> On 2015-08-19 11:26, sebb wrote:
>>
>>> I have fixed the mailer.
>>> It ignores updates to KEYS/.htaccess/HEADER.html/README.html, but you
>>> could try adding a RELEASE-NOTES.txt file to see if it works better
>>> now.
>>>
>>> The mailing list issue is a bit trickier to fix, as the problem lies
>>> elsewhere.
>>> The code gets the details by parsing:
>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.us.apache.org/mod_mbox/#empire
>>>
>>> Note that this has dropped the -db suffix.
>>>
>>> and in your orginal mail, you reference the mailbox as:
>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/
>>>
>>> I can add a temporary fix to convert empire to empire-db in the output.
>>>
>>> I think the other signs of health are correct;
>>> there is no new PMC member and no recent committers AFAICT
>>> And it does seem to have taken account of releases as it does not
>>> complain about them.
>>>
>>> It will take a little while to fix the mailing list issue.
>>>
>>> On 19 August 2015 at 09:41, sebb  wrote:
>>>
 I will take a look shortly

 On 18 August 2015 at 16:39, Francis De Brabandere 
 wrote:

> Hi,
>
> we are scoring second worst apache project on the reporter...
>
> https://reporter.apache.org/chi.py#empire-db
> https://reporter.apache.org/?empire-db
>
> I think this is partly related to our name containing a '-'. The tool
> mailed me pointing to
> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire which should have
> been
> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire-db
>
> Also
>
> Score note: No email sent to ANY ML in the past quarter (-2.50氣)
> Score note: Less than one email per month sent to all MLs combined in
> the
> last six months (-2.00氣)
>
> this is clearly incorrect, see
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-dev/ and
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/
>
> We previously had problems with git and other tools. Could somebody look
> into this?
>
> Thanks,
> Francis De Brabandere
> Apache Empire-db chair
>

>>

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[Francis De Brabandere]

Thanks Sebb and Daniel, this looks already better :-) Great to have this
tool available.

And yes, we're not having a lot of activity on the PMC side.

Cheers,
Francis

On 19 August 2015 at 11:32, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> Do note: the mailing list issue HAS been fixed :)
>
>
> On 2015-08-19 11:26, sebb wrote:
>
>> I have fixed the mailer.
>> It ignores updates to KEYS/.htaccess/HEADER.html/README.html, but you
>> could try adding a RELEASE-NOTES.txt file to see if it works better
>> now.
>>
>> The mailing list issue is a bit trickier to fix, as the problem lies
>> elsewhere.
>> The code gets the details by parsing:
>>
>> http://mail-archives.us.apache.org/mod_mbox/#empire
>>
>> Note that this has dropped the -db suffix.
>>
>> and in your orginal mail, you reference the mailbox as:
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/
>>
>> I can add a temporary fix to convert empire to empire-db in the output.
>>
>> I think the other signs of health are correct;
>> there is no new PMC member and no recent committers AFAICT
>> And it does seem to have taken account of releases as it does not
>> complain about them.
>>
>> It will take a little while to fix the mailing list issue.
>>
>> On 19 August 2015 at 09:41, sebb  wrote:
>>
>>> I will take a look shortly
>>>
>>> On 18 August 2015 at 16:39, Francis De Brabandere 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 we are scoring second worst apache project on the reporter...

 https://reporter.apache.org/chi.py#empire-db
 https://reporter.apache.org/?empire-db

 I think this is partly related to our name containing a '-'. The tool
 mailed me pointing to
 https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire which should have
 been
 https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire-db

 Also

 Score note: No email sent to ANY ML in the past quarter (-2.50氣)
 Score note: Less than one email per month sent to all MLs combined in
 the
 last six months (-2.00氣)

 this is clearly incorrect, see
 http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-dev/ and
 http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/

 We previously had problems with git and other tools. Could somebody look
 into this?

 Thanks,
 Francis De Brabandere
 Apache Empire-db chair

>>>
>

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[Daniel Gruno]

Do note: the mailing list issue HAS been fixed :)

On 2015-08-19 11:26, sebb wrote:

I have fixed the mailer.
It ignores updates to KEYS/.htaccess/HEADER.html/README.html, but you
could try adding a RELEASE-NOTES.txt file to see if it works better
now.

The mailing list issue is a bit trickier to fix, as the problem lies elsewhere.
The code gets the details by parsing:

http://mail-archives.us.apache.org/mod_mbox/#empire

Note that this has dropped the -db suffix.

and in your orginal mail, you reference the mailbox as:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/

I can add a temporary fix to convert empire to empire-db in the output.

I think the other signs of health are correct;
there is no new PMC member and no recent committers AFAICT
And it does seem to have taken account of releases as it does not
complain about them.

It will take a little while to fix the mailing list issue.

On 19 August 2015 at 09:41, sebb  wrote:

I will take a look shortly

On 18 August 2015 at 16:39, Francis De Brabandere  wrote:

Hi,

we are scoring second worst apache project on the reporter...

https://reporter.apache.org/chi.py#empire-db
https://reporter.apache.org/?empire-db

I think this is partly related to our name containing a '-'. The tool
mailed me pointing to
https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire which should have been
https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire-db

Also

Score note: No email sent to ANY ML in the past quarter (-2.50氣)
Score note: Less than one email per month sent to all MLs combined in the
last six months (-2.00氣)

this is clearly incorrect, see
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-dev/ and
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/

We previously had problems with git and other tools. Could somebody look
into this?

Thanks,
Francis De Brabandere
Apache Empire-db chair

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[sebb]

I have fixed the mailer.
It ignores updates to KEYS/.htaccess/HEADER.html/README.html, but you
could try adding a RELEASE-NOTES.txt file to see if it works better
now.

The mailing list issue is a bit trickier to fix, as the problem lies elsewhere.
The code gets the details by parsing:

http://mail-archives.us.apache.org/mod_mbox/#empire

Note that this has dropped the -db suffix.

and in your orginal mail, you reference the mailbox as:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/

I can add a temporary fix to convert empire to empire-db in the output.

I think the other signs of health are correct;
there is no new PMC member and no recent committers AFAICT
And it does seem to have taken account of releases as it does not
complain about them.

It will take a little while to fix the mailing list issue.

On 19 August 2015 at 09:41, sebb  wrote:
> I will take a look shortly
>
> On 18 August 2015 at 16:39, Francis De Brabandere  
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> we are scoring second worst apache project on the reporter...
>>
>> https://reporter.apache.org/chi.py#empire-db
>> https://reporter.apache.org/?empire-db
>>
>> I think this is partly related to our name containing a '-'. The tool
>> mailed me pointing to
>> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire which should have been
>> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire-db
>>
>> Also
>>
>> Score note: No email sent to ANY ML in the past quarter (-2.50氣)
>> Score note: Less than one email per month sent to all MLs combined in the
>> last six months (-2.00氣)
>>
>> this is clearly incorrect, see
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-dev/ and
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/
>>
>> We previously had problems with git and other tools. Could somebody look
>> into this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Francis De Brabandere
>> Apache Empire-db chair

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[Daniel Gruno]

Hi Francis,
the reporter.a.o main page and the Chi calculator should be fixed now - 
I had to add a special kludge for empire-db due to the dash in the name. 
I believe sebb has also fixed the release scanner.


With regards,
Daniel.


On 2015-08-18 17:39, Francis De Brabandere wrote:

Hi,

we are scoring second worst apache project on the reporter...

https://reporter.apache.org/chi.py#empire-db
https://reporter.apache.org/?empire-db

I think this is partly related to our name containing a '-'. The tool
mailed me pointing to
https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire which should have been
https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire-db

Also

Score note: No email sent to ANY ML in the past quarter (-2.50氣)
Score note: Less than one email per month sent to all MLs combined in the
last six months (-2.00氣)

this is clearly incorrect, see
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-dev/ and
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/

We previously had problems with git and other tools. Could somebody look
into this?

Thanks,
Francis De Brabandere
Apache Empire-db chair

Re: Reporter has issues with our project name containing a dash

[sebb]

I will take a look shortly

On 18 August 2015 at 16:39, Francis De Brabandere  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we are scoring second worst apache project on the reporter...
>
> https://reporter.apache.org/chi.py#empire-db
> https://reporter.apache.org/?empire-db
>
> I think this is partly related to our name containing a '-'. The tool
> mailed me pointing to
> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire which should have been
> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?empire-db
>
> Also
>
> Score note: No email sent to ANY ML in the past quarter (-2.50氣)
> Score note: Less than one email per month sent to all MLs combined in the
> last six months (-2.00氣)
>
> this is clearly incorrect, see
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-dev/ and
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/empire-user/
>
> We previously had problems with git and other tools. Could somebody look
> into this?
>
> Thanks,
> Francis De Brabandere
> Apache Empire-db chair

Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

[田義忠]

從我的 iPhone 傳送

> Ross Gardler  於 2015年8月17日 16:24 寫道：
> 
> Moderating first posts would be better.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: sebb [mailto:seb...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 1:22 AM
> To: Roman Shaposhnik 
> Cc: ComDev ; Apache Infrastructure 
> 
> Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?
> 
> This is a new subscription (send an e-mail to dev-log@community.a.o for 
> details)
> 
> Perhaps we need to consider moderated subscriptions for this list.
> 
>> On 16 August 2015 at 21:33, Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:
>> This email echoing keeps happening. I thought we've dealt with it, no?
>> 
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: 田義忠 
>> Date: Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 1:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?
>> To: "dev@community.apache.org" 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 從我的 iPhone 傳送
>> 
 Roman Shaposhnik  於 2015年8月17日 04:25 寫道：
 
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Shane Curcuru  
> wrote:
> On 8/7/15 7:53 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Bill,
> So I can release "Niclas Hadoop platform, based on Apache Hadoop" 
> ?? I thought the discussion a few years ago was that this was 
> misleading...
 
 No, you cannot.  See our actual trademark policy:
 
 
 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fwww
 .apache.org%2ffoundation%2fmarks%2ffaq%2f%23products&data=01%7c01%7c
 ross.gardler%40microsoft.com%7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a6dced17%7c72
 f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DdcuJh%2bbhphaiy7yoW%2f2caG
 y15TIxfrsXg1V%2fHh9Jsg%3d
 
 Our release policy, as Roman originally asked about, applies only to 
 ASF projects, and has no bearing on third parties.  However our 
 trademark policy, and trademark law, prevents third parties from 
 publicly providing software using our trademarks.
 
 Our operational policies only apply to our projects, just like any 
 other corporation.  Some policies, like our license itself and our 
 formal trademark policy, inform the rest of the world how they are 
 allowed to use our websites, software code, and brands.
 
 Make sense?
>>> 
>>> It does, but our relationships with downstream Linux vendors (just to 
>>> take the most obvious example) set a very confusing precedent.
>>> 
>>> Shane, if would be super helpful if you took a look at:
>>>  
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fpkgs.org%2fsearch%2fhadoop&data=01%7c01%7cross.gardler%40microsoft.com%7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a6dced17%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZXiKGbcB8ekfCts3JOcHVPYpX35xcqfr87Adbmf77%2f8%3d
>>>  
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fpkgs.org%2fsearch%2fmaven&data=01%7c01%7cross.gardler%40microsoft.com%7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a6dced17%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=bbku3kk8GRT8rNXWo5gwhRfpWIOoouH%2buNNzmrCpI0I%3d
>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fpkgs.
>>> org%2fsearch%2fsubversion&data=01%7c01%7cross.gardler%40microsoft.com
>>> %7c53be77cdd3ef4dca285308d2a6dced17%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db4
>>> 7%7c1&sdata=BEHyTF%2b6dOsaARgvSX3%2bp1gWPkiVjbg7wODXVv2tzA8%3d
>>> and pubished your narrative of how the ASF branding policies apply in 
>>> both cases.
>>> 
>>> The 3 projects I'm picking represent a pretty diverse set of cases of 
>>> how PMCs are conducting themselves.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roman.