Re: The projects.apache.org site confuses basic principles
> On Feb 4, 2022, at 8:51 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: > > > > On 2/4/22 11:03, Dave Fisher wrote: >> As I understand the ASF governance there are: >> 1. Project Management Committees -> Projects. For example: Apache Logging. >> 2. Products which are named artifacts from projects. For example: Apache >> Log4J >> 3. Releases which are released artifacts of a project’s product. For >> example: Apache Log4J 2.17.1 > > The word "Product" means something different to many consumers of software. > We don't have products in that sense. We have projects and sub-projects. (I came into Apache committership through Apache Jakarta POI. A project with too many sub-projects. I think that there is an important distinction between PMC and responsibility for Product vs. Project and sub-Project, but that’s an orthogonal issue.) We do have products. The Brand committee makes the distinction between projects and products. See https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/ for example. > > I seem to remember struggling with this specific naming decision when the > projects.a.o site was first put up. This was setup in the PRC, correct? (IIRC - PRC was split into comdev, conference, trademark, and press about 12 years ago) > > That said ... patches welcome. Sure - I included press@ because this site is an important reference for them. > >> But on the https://projects.apache.org website the corresponding three items >> are called: >> 1. Committees. >> 2. Projects. >> 3. Releases. >> I suspect that this “confusion” is due to a combination of the split of the >> PRC committee and the former time of supper projects like Apache Jakarta. >> This ought to be adjusted somehow because it leads to misunderstanding about >> responsibility. >> All The Best, >> Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: The projects.apache.org site confuses basic principles
On 2/4/22 11:03, Dave Fisher wrote: As I understand the ASF governance there are: 1. Project Management Committees -> Projects. For example: Apache Logging. 2. Products which are named artifacts from projects. For example: Apache Log4J 3. Releases which are released artifacts of a project’s product. For example: Apache Log4J 2.17.1 The word "Product" means something different to many consumers of software. We don't have products in that sense. We have projects and sub-projects. I seem to remember struggling with this specific naming decision when the projects.a.o site was first put up. That said ... patches welcome. But on the https://projects.apache.org website the corresponding three items are called: 1. Committees. 2. Projects. 3. Releases. I suspect that this “confusion” is due to a combination of the split of the PRC committee and the former time of supper projects like Apache Jakarta. This ought to be adjusted somehow because it leads to misunderstanding about responsibility. All The Best, Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: The projects.apache.org site confuses basic principles
(Dropped press@ from reply) I don't find the wording there too confusing if you know that "Projects" includes both top-level and sub-projects. This seems obvious to me when the site says "199 committees managing 351 projects", but that could be clarified further by having it say "199 project management committees (PMCs) managing 351 top-level projects and their sub-projects". The part of the site that says "Committees evolution (also called PMCs or Top Level Projects)" makes it clear that there's a 1-to-1 mapping of PMCs and top-level projects. But that could be further clarified as "PMC evolution (one for each top-level project)". This is the breakdown I understand: 1. PMCs (project management 'committees' - committees that each manage one or more projects) 2. Projects (includes top-level projects and their sub-projects) 3. Releases (individual artifacts distributed from each project) I actually find the use of the word "product" to be more confusing because the "P" in "PMC" stands for "Project", not "Product". PMCs are neither projects themselves nor committees that manage products. Rather, they are committees that manage projects: one top-level each and any number of sub-projects. So, the main confusing point I find in the page is the use of the phrase "also called" to equate "Committee" with "Top Level Projects". A PMC is not "also called" a "Top Level Project". Rather, it *manages* a top level project. On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 11:03 AM Dave Fisher wrote: > As I understand the ASF governance there are: > > 1. Project Management Committees -> Projects. For example: Apache Logging. > 2. Products which are named artifacts from projects. For example: Apache > Log4J > 3. Releases which are released artifacts of a project’s product. For > example: Apache Log4J 2.17.1 > > But on the https://projects.apache.org website the corresponding three > items are called: > > 1. Committees. > 2. Projects. > 3. Releases. > > I suspect that this “confusion” is due to a combination of the split of > the PRC committee and the former time of supper projects like Apache > Jakarta. > > This ought to be adjusted somehow because it leads to misunderstanding > about responsibility. > > All The Best, > Dave > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
The projects.apache.org site confuses basic principles
As I understand the ASF governance there are: 1. Project Management Committees -> Projects. For example: Apache Logging. 2. Products which are named artifacts from projects. For example: Apache Log4J 3. Releases which are released artifacts of a project’s product. For example: Apache Log4J 2.17.1 But on the https://projects.apache.org website the corresponding three items are called: 1. Committees. 2. Projects. 3. Releases. I suspect that this “confusion” is due to a combination of the split of the PRC committee and the former time of supper projects like Apache Jakarta. This ought to be adjusted somehow because it leads to misunderstanding about responsibility. All The Best, Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
