AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Ok …
So, off the email goes … let’s see what’s gonna happen to my inbox now 😲
I stuck with the Oct. 1st as I didn’t get any other feedback on selecting
another date.
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz
Datum: Dienstag, 15. August 2023 um 11:20
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
So …
As I haven’t heard any other opinions, my plan is the following:
* Chose the date of Oct. 1st for making the change active.
* Apply my PR with the updated mailing-list.md.
* Send out the email to all dev-lists.
Any objections?
The content of the email will be as follows:
---
Subject: Mailing list threading improvements
Dear Apache Projects,
TL;DR: We’re updating how auto-generated email from Github will be
threaded on your mailing lists. If you want to keep the old defaults,
details are below.
We’re pleased to let you know that we’re tweaking the way that auto-
generated email from Github will appear on your mailing lists. This
will lead to more human-readable subject lines, and the ability of most
modern mail clients to correctly thread discussions originating on
Github.
Background: Many project mailing lists receive email auto-generated by
Github. The way that the subject lines are crafted leads to messages
from the same topic not being threaded together by most mail clients.
We’re fixing that.
The way that these messages are threaded is defined by a file -
.asf.yml - in your git repositories. We’re changing the way that it
will work by default if you don’t choose settings. If you’re happy for
us to make this change, don’t do anything - the change will happen on
October the 1st 2023.
Details of the current default, as well as the proposed changes, are on
the following page, along with instructions on how to keep your current
settings, if you prefer:
https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
Please copy dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> on any
feedback.
Chris, on behalf of the Comdev PMC
---
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 20:29
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
So here some updates to the mailing-list page:
https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/127
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 20:26
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi Jarek,
I was told there’s a direct way to send to all dev-lists.
That’s one email going out for me … but thanks for that tip.
Could come in handy some time.
Chris
Von: Jarek Potiuk
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 19:54
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hey Chris - in case you are using Gmail, I can heartily recommend Streak (
streak.com). This is a very simple CRM with fabulous integration with Gmail.
For your kind of messaging it's 100% free, you can easily prepare a
(google?) spreadsheet with addresses/repos/etc, pull the whole spreadsheet
into a pipeline and send "mass email campaign" to all the projects with
customized variables from the spreadsheet. The nice thing about it is that
it actually sends those emails from your gmail UI - so it is not super
fast, but it also by-passess all the tools that detect mass mailing as
spam. It also works nicely in the way that all the emails you send are
individual threads in your Gmail "Sent" folder. With Streak, you can
single-handedly easily manage 100s of threads - responding individually to
each thread where someone responds to your email.
Also streak nicely labels the threads that are part of your pipeline so you
can see the emails that are part of your pipeline easily. You can also
manage the state of your pipeline - moving individual items to different
stages ("Sent"/ "Responded" / "Rejected" etc... etc.)
I've managed many events this way, single-handedly communicating with
hundreds of speakers, partners, sponsors, etc - it's been a life-saver, and
likely for your use case it will be perfect.
J.
On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 7:20 PM Christofer Dutz
wrote:
> Ok …
>
> so in total 27 repos have managed their subjects, however not a single
> project has them handled for all their repos, so literally every project
> will be “affected”.
>
> Makes the number-crunching a bit simpler, however sill gotta send out a
> hell of a lot of individual emails.
>
> I guess I should change the page:
>
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> Before starting to send out these emails.
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023
AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
So …
As I haven’t heard any other opinions, my plan is the following:
* Chose the date of Oct. 1st for making the change active.
* Apply my PR with the updated mailing-list.md.
* Send out the email to all dev-lists.
Any objections?
The content of the email will be as follows:
---
Subject: Mailing list threading improvements
Dear Apache Projects,
TL;DR: We’re updating how auto-generated email from Github will be
threaded on your mailing lists. If you want to keep the old defaults,
details are below.
We’re pleased to let you know that we’re tweaking the way that auto-
generated email from Github will appear on your mailing lists. This
will lead to more human-readable subject lines, and the ability of most
modern mail clients to correctly thread discussions originating on
Github.
Background: Many project mailing lists receive email auto-generated by
Github. The way that the subject lines are crafted leads to messages
from the same topic not being threaded together by most mail clients.
We’re fixing that.
The way that these messages are threaded is defined by a file -
.asf.yml - in your git repositories. We’re changing the way that it
will work by default if you don’t choose settings. If you’re happy for
us to make this change, don’t do anything - the change will happen on
October the 1st 2023.
Details of the current default, as well as the proposed changes, are on
the following page, along with instructions on how to keep your current
settings, if you prefer:
https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
Please copy dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> on any
feedback.
Chris, on behalf of the Comdev PMC
---
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 20:29
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
So here some updates to the mailing-list page:
https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/127
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 20:26
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi Jarek,
I was told there’s a direct way to send to all dev-lists.
That’s one email going out for me … but thanks for that tip.
Could come in handy some time.
Chris
Von: Jarek Potiuk
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 19:54
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hey Chris - in case you are using Gmail, I can heartily recommend Streak (
streak.com). This is a very simple CRM with fabulous integration with Gmail.
For your kind of messaging it's 100% free, you can easily prepare a
(google?) spreadsheet with addresses/repos/etc, pull the whole spreadsheet
into a pipeline and send "mass email campaign" to all the projects with
customized variables from the spreadsheet. The nice thing about it is that
it actually sends those emails from your gmail UI - so it is not super
fast, but it also by-passess all the tools that detect mass mailing as
spam. It also works nicely in the way that all the emails you send are
individual threads in your Gmail "Sent" folder. With Streak, you can
single-handedly easily manage 100s of threads - responding individually to
each thread where someone responds to your email.
Also streak nicely labels the threads that are part of your pipeline so you
can see the emails that are part of your pipeline easily. You can also
manage the state of your pipeline - moving individual items to different
stages ("Sent"/ "Responded" / "Rejected" etc... etc.)
I've managed many events this way, single-handedly communicating with
hundreds of speakers, partners, sponsors, etc - it's been a life-saver, and
likely for your use case it will be perfect.
J.
On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 7:20 PM Christofer Dutz
wrote:
> Ok …
>
> so in total 27 repos have managed their subjects, however not a single
> project has them handled for all their repos, so literally every project
> will be “affected”.
>
> Makes the number-crunching a bit simpler, however sill gotta send out a
> hell of a lot of individual emails.
>
> I guess I should change the page:
>
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> Before starting to send out these emails.
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 17:54
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Hi all,
>
> So, as I’m back from my holidays … I am planning on doing the following:
>
>
> * Go through the repos of the projects we have and compile a list of
> the ones affected by changed d
AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
So here some updates to the mailing-list page:
https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/127
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 20:26
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi Jarek,
I was told there’s a direct way to send to all dev-lists.
That’s one email going out for me … but thanks for that tip.
Could come in handy some time.
Chris
Von: Jarek Potiuk
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 19:54
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hey Chris - in case you are using Gmail, I can heartily recommend Streak (
streak.com). This is a very simple CRM with fabulous integration with Gmail.
For your kind of messaging it's 100% free, you can easily prepare a
(google?) spreadsheet with addresses/repos/etc, pull the whole spreadsheet
into a pipeline and send "mass email campaign" to all the projects with
customized variables from the spreadsheet. The nice thing about it is that
it actually sends those emails from your gmail UI - so it is not super
fast, but it also by-passess all the tools that detect mass mailing as
spam. It also works nicely in the way that all the emails you send are
individual threads in your Gmail "Sent" folder. With Streak, you can
single-handedly easily manage 100s of threads - responding individually to
each thread where someone responds to your email.
Also streak nicely labels the threads that are part of your pipeline so you
can see the emails that are part of your pipeline easily. You can also
manage the state of your pipeline - moving individual items to different
stages ("Sent"/ "Responded" / "Rejected" etc... etc.)
I've managed many events this way, single-handedly communicating with
hundreds of speakers, partners, sponsors, etc - it's been a life-saver, and
likely for your use case it will be perfect.
J.
On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 7:20 PM Christofer Dutz
wrote:
> Ok …
>
> so in total 27 repos have managed their subjects, however not a single
> project has them handled for all their repos, so literally every project
> will be “affected”.
>
> Makes the number-crunching a bit simpler, however sill gotta send out a
> hell of a lot of individual emails.
>
> I guess I should change the page:
>
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> Before starting to send out these emails.
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 17:54
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Hi all,
>
> So, as I’m back from my holidays … I am planning on doing the following:
>
>
> * Go through the repos of the projects we have and compile a list of
> the ones affected by changed defaults.
> * Send an email to each of the dev-lists (or whatever qualifies as
> dev-list)
>
> Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, but it’s something I strongly believe in
> being worth the effort.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2023 um 08:07
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Well... I'll go for it as soon as I'm back from my short holiday.
>
> Chris
>
> Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>
> From: sebb
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 12:16:42 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
>
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email.
> > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to?
> >
> > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people
> > affected.
>
> Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists.
>
> Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on
> matching subjects are likely to be affected.
> Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications.
>
> > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch?
> > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on
> > > Thursdays.
> > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml?
> > >
> > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better?
> > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give
> > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised)
> > >
> > > The
AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi Jarek,
I was told there’s a direct way to send to all dev-lists.
That’s one email going out for me … but thanks for that tip.
Could come in handy some time.
Chris
Von: Jarek Potiuk
Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 19:54
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hey Chris - in case you are using Gmail, I can heartily recommend Streak (
streak.com). This is a very simple CRM with fabulous integration with Gmail.
For your kind of messaging it's 100% free, you can easily prepare a
(google?) spreadsheet with addresses/repos/etc, pull the whole spreadsheet
into a pipeline and send "mass email campaign" to all the projects with
customized variables from the spreadsheet. The nice thing about it is that
it actually sends those emails from your gmail UI - so it is not super
fast, but it also by-passess all the tools that detect mass mailing as
spam. It also works nicely in the way that all the emails you send are
individual threads in your Gmail "Sent" folder. With Streak, you can
single-handedly easily manage 100s of threads - responding individually to
each thread where someone responds to your email.
Also streak nicely labels the threads that are part of your pipeline so you
can see the emails that are part of your pipeline easily. You can also
manage the state of your pipeline - moving individual items to different
stages ("Sent"/ "Responded" / "Rejected" etc... etc.)
I've managed many events this way, single-handedly communicating with
hundreds of speakers, partners, sponsors, etc - it's been a life-saver, and
likely for your use case it will be perfect.
J.
On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 7:20 PM Christofer Dutz
wrote:
> Ok …
>
> so in total 27 repos have managed their subjects, however not a single
> project has them handled for all their repos, so literally every project
> will be “affected”.
>
> Makes the number-crunching a bit simpler, however sill gotta send out a
> hell of a lot of individual emails.
>
> I guess I should change the page:
>
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> Before starting to send out these emails.
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 17:54
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Hi all,
>
> So, as I’m back from my holidays … I am planning on doing the following:
>
>
> * Go through the repos of the projects we have and compile a list of
> the ones affected by changed defaults.
> * Send an email to each of the dev-lists (or whatever qualifies as
> dev-list)
>
> Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, but it’s something I strongly believe in
> being worth the effort.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2023 um 08:07
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Well... I'll go for it as soon as I'm back from my short holiday.
>
> Chris
>
> Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>
> From: sebb
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 12:16:42 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
>
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email.
> > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to?
> >
> > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people
> > affected.
>
> Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists.
>
> Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on
> matching subjects are likely to be affected.
> Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications.
>
> > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch?
> > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on
> > > Thursdays.
> > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml?
> > >
> > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better?
> > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give
> > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised)
> > >
> > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t
> > > really think we should go beyond that.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> >
> > 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me.
> >
> > --Rich
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hey Chris - in case you are using Gmail, I can heartily recommend Streak (
streak.com). This is a very simple CRM with fabulous integration with Gmail.
For your kind of messaging it's 100% free, you can easily prepare a
(google?) spreadsheet with addresses/repos/etc, pull the whole spreadsheet
into a pipeline and send "mass email campaign" to all the projects with
customized variables from the spreadsheet. The nice thing about it is that
it actually sends those emails from your gmail UI - so it is not super
fast, but it also by-passess all the tools that detect mass mailing as
spam. It also works nicely in the way that all the emails you send are
individual threads in your Gmail "Sent" folder. With Streak, you can
single-handedly easily manage 100s of threads - responding individually to
each thread where someone responds to your email.
Also streak nicely labels the threads that are part of your pipeline so you
can see the emails that are part of your pipeline easily. You can also
manage the state of your pipeline - moving individual items to different
stages ("Sent"/ "Responded" / "Rejected" etc... etc.)
I've managed many events this way, single-handedly communicating with
hundreds of speakers, partners, sponsors, etc - it's been a life-saver, and
likely for your use case it will be perfect.
J.
On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 7:20 PM Christofer Dutz
wrote:
> Ok …
>
> so in total 27 repos have managed their subjects, however not a single
> project has them handled for all their repos, so literally every project
> will be “affected”.
>
> Makes the number-crunching a bit simpler, however sill gotta send out a
> hell of a lot of individual emails.
>
> I guess I should change the page:
>
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> Before starting to send out these emails.
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 17:54
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Hi all,
>
> So, as I’m back from my holidays … I am planning on doing the following:
>
>
> * Go through the repos of the projects we have and compile a list of
> the ones affected by changed defaults.
> * Send an email to each of the dev-lists (or whatever qualifies as
> dev-list)
>
> Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, but it’s something I strongly believe in
> being worth the effort.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz
> Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2023 um 08:07
> An: dev@community.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
> Well... I'll go for it as soon as I'm back from my short holiday.
>
> Chris
>
> Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>
> From: sebb
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 12:16:42 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
>
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email.
> > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to?
> >
> > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people
> > affected.
>
> Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists.
>
> Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on
> matching subjects are likely to be affected.
> Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications.
>
> > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch?
> > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on
> > > Thursdays.
> > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml?
> > >
> > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better?
> > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give
> > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised)
> > >
> > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t
> > > really think we should go beyond that.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> >
> > 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me.
> >
> > --Rich
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Ok … so in total 27 repos have managed their subjects, however not a single project has them handled for all their repos, so literally every project will be “affected”. Makes the number-crunching a bit simpler, however sill gotta send out a hell of a lot of individual emails. I guess I should change the page: https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent Before starting to send out these emails. Chris Von: Christofer Dutz Datum: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 um 17:54 An: dev@community.apache.org Betreff: AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers Hi all, So, as I’m back from my holidays … I am planning on doing the following: * Go through the repos of the projects we have and compile a list of the ones affected by changed defaults. * Send an email to each of the dev-lists (or whatever qualifies as dev-list) Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, but it’s something I strongly believe in being worth the effort. Chris Von: Christofer Dutz Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2023 um 08:07 An: dev@community.apache.org Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers Well... I'll go for it as soon as I'm back from my short holiday. Chris Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: sebb Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 12:16:42 AM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote: > > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email. > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to? > > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people > affected. Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists. Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on matching subjects are likely to be affected. Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications. > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch? > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on > > Thursdays. > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml? > > > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better? > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised) > > > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t > > really think we should go beyond that. > > > > What do you think? > > 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me. > > --Rich > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
AW: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi all, So, as I’m back from my holidays … I am planning on doing the following: * Go through the repos of the projects we have and compile a list of the ones affected by changed defaults. * Send an email to each of the dev-lists (or whatever qualifies as dev-list) Gonna be a hell of a lot of work, but it’s something I strongly believe in being worth the effort. Chris Von: Christofer Dutz Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2023 um 08:07 An: dev@community.apache.org Betreff: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers Well... I'll go for it as soon as I'm back from my short holiday. Chris Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: sebb Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 12:16:42 AM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote: > > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email. > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to? > > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people > affected. Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists. Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on matching subjects are likely to be affected. Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications. > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch? > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on > > Thursdays. > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml? > > > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better? > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised) > > > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t > > really think we should go beyond that. > > > > What do you think? > > 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me. > > --Rich > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Well... I'll go for it as soon as I'm back from my short holiday. Chris Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: sebb Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 12:16:42 AM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote: > > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email. > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to? > > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people > affected. Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists. Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on matching subjects are likely to be affected. Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications. > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch? > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on > > Thursdays. > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml? > > > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better? > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised) > > > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t > > really think we should go beyond that. > > > > What do you think? > > 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me. > > --Rich > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 13:50, wrote: > > On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email. > > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to? > > I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people > affected. Not all projects have dev lists, and some have multiple dev lists. Also the email needs to point out that any email filters based on matching subjects are likely to be affected. Further, this will affect all lists that receive GH notifications. > > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch? > > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on > > Thursdays. > > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml? > > > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better? > > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give > > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised) > > > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t > > really think we should go beyond that. > > > > What do you think? > > 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me. > > --Rich > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
On Sat, 2023-08-05 at 15:37 +, Christofer Dutz wrote: > Hi all, > > So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email. > Now to the next question … which list should we post this to? I think this should go to all dev@ lists, as those are the people affected. > And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch? > As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on > Thursdays. > How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml? > > Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better? > (I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give > people a week or a year … they’ll always be surprised) > > The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t > really think we should go beyond that. > > What do you think? 4 weeks/30 days makes the most sense to me. --Rich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi all,
So, I think we should stay with Rich’s version of the email.
Now to the next question … which list should we post this to?
And what do you think should we define as a date when we’ll switch?
As far as I understood things, Infa merges PRs like mine on Thursdays.
How much time to we want to give people to adjust their .asf.yml?
Do 4 weeks make sense, or would a shorter time be better?
(I mean … we all know that it really doesn’t matter if you give people a week
or a year … they’ll always be surprised)
The range I’m ok with would be 2 weeks up to 4 weeks but wouldn’t really think
we should go beyond that.
What do you think?
Chris
Von: rbo...@rcbowen.com
Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 15:39
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
On Fri, 2023-08-04 at 15:26 +0200, Jarek Potiuk wrote:
> +1. Looks way better.
Updated draft, for the sake of having it in the archive:
Subject: Mailing list threading improvements
Dear {Committers/members of the Apache PMCs},
TL;DR: We’re updating how auto-generated email from Github will be
threaded on your mailing lists. If you want to keep the old defaults,
details are below.
We’re pleased to let you know that we’re tweaking the way that auto-
generated email from Github will appear on your mailing lists. This
will lead to more human-readable subject lines, and the ability of most
modern mail clients to correctly thread discussions originating on
Github.
Background: Many project mailing lists receive email auto-generated by
Github. The way that the subject lines are crafted leads to messages
from the same topic not being threaded together by most mail clients.
We’re fixing that.
The way that these messages are threaded is defined by a file -
.asf.yml - in your git repositories. We’re changing the way that it
will work by default if you don’t choose settings. If you’re happy for
us to make this change, don’t do anything - the change will happen on
{DATE}.
Details of the current default, as well as the proposed changes, are on
the following page, along with instructions on how to keep your current
settings, if you prefer:
https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
Please copy dev@community.apache.org on any feedback.
Chris, on behalf of the Comdev PMC
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
AW: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
Hi all and especially Rich …
I love your version … and yes … I really need to focus more on the “what you
get”
and less on “why where you’re at sucks” sort of narrative ;-)
Chris
Von: Peter Hunsberger
Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 15:06
An: dev@community.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DRAFT] Email to all PMCs or Committers
On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 7:45 AM wrote:
> Ok, I propose this alternative approach - more on the "here's how
> things are getting better" tone than the "Here's how things were awful"
> tone, and half the length:
>
>
>
>
> Subject: Mailing list threading improvements
> To: dev@
>
> Dear Apache project developers,
>
> TL;DR: We’re updating how auto-generated email from Github will be
> threaded on your mailing lists. If you want to keep the old defaults,
> details are below.
>
> We’re pleased to let you know that we’re tweaking the way that auto-
> generated email from Github will appear on your mailing lists. This
> will lead to more human-readable subject lines, and the ability of most
> modern mail clients to correctly thread discussions originating on
> Github.
>
> Background: Many project lists receive email auto-generated on Github.
> The way that the subject lines are crafted leads to messages from the
> same topic not being threaded together by most mail clients. We’re
> fixing that.
>
> The way that these messages are threaded is defined by a file -
> .asf.yml - in your git repositories. We’re changing the way that it
> will work by default if you don’t choose settings. The change will
> happen on {DATE}
>
> Details of the current default, as well as the proposed changes, are on
> this page, along with instructions on how to keep your current
> settings, if you prefer:
>
>
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
>
> Chris, on behalf of the Comdev PMC
>
+1
This seems concise and would be a welcome change
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2023-08-04 at 07:30 -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
> > As discussed offline, I feel like the tone of this messaging is
> > wrong. Give me a bit to get to my desk and I will propose an
> > alternate draft.
> >
> > Shosholoza,
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 04:43 Christofer Dutz
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Here comes a draft for an email I would like to send out.
> > >
> > > Not quite sure which audience we should choose … committers,
> > > (p)pmcs?
> > >
> > > Also, not quite sure about the timeframe? As I know Infra merges
> > > PRs on Thursdays, I would propose the 17th of August 2023 as date
> > > for the change to be made. This would give project almost 2 weeks
> > > to react and adjust their .asf.yml files, if they wish to stay at
> > > the current defaults.
> > >
> > > So, I wasn’t sure, if I should add links to examples, as it would
> > > be putting the project acting as negative example in an unfortunate
> > > spotlight and using date ranges in ponymail links has been not
> > > quite successful in the past.
> > >
> > > What do you folks think?
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear {Committers/members of the Apache PMCs},
> > >
> > > over the years have we added additional options for discussing
> > > project matters on a big variety of alternate locations and systems
> > > besides email lists, such as JIRA and GitHub.
> > > Especially GitHub has been growing in acceptance, as it generally
> > > allows participating without requiring yet another login.
> > >
> > > GitHub currently allows discussing things using: GitHub Issues,
> > > GitHub PRs and GitHub Discussions.
> > > Infra has built tooling, that forwards these discussions to our
> > > mailing-lists.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, some defaults were chosen, which have resulted in
> > > many dev-lists being swamped with emails, for which no email-client
> > > was able to implement any form of threading.
> > > Some projects simply reacted by redirecting these emails to lists,
> > > such as notifications@ or commits@.
> > > Some projects even completely gave up communicating via email lists
> > > and only “come back” for voting.
> > > Even if the requirement “If it didn’t happen on the list, it didn’t
> > > happen” sort of is fulfilled, it no longer fulfills what the core
> > > of this rule was:
> > > To allow someone to asynchronously participate and find out what’s
> > > happening in a project without requiring any form of login and to
> > > have some sort of archive of all discussions about Apache projects
> > > on Apache hardware.
> > >
> > > In Comdev we have been discussing how we could possibly address
> > > this and bring back the usefulness of our mailing-lists.
> > > The tooling Infra provides us with, already allows individual
> > > projects to change the settings of the auto-generated emails and
> > > several projects have already done so, with great success.
> > >
> > > Comdev has therefore proposed to change the default settings for
> > > auto-generated
