Re: [VOTE] Build #19 as HTML/Java API release 1.5

[Jaroslav Tulach]

Hello Bertrand and other mentors and PMCs.
My key is now listed at https://people.apache.org/keys/group/netbeans.asc
Does that mean there is nothing stopping us to approve bits at
https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-html4j-release/19/
as release 1.5 of HTML/Java API now?
-jt


2017-10-12 6:15 GMT+02:00 Jaroslav Tulach :

> Hello Bertrand,
>
> thanks for the review. Here is how I am addressing your comments:
>
>
> > I have reviewed SHA1(incubating-netbeans-html4j-1.5.zip)=
>
> > eaa3a5a784f56fd1a20674ef5b59eed2be99d2fe
>
> >
>
> > I'm -1 on the release due to the missing DISCLAIMER which is easy to
>
> > fix, details below.
>
> >
>
> > Once that's fixed, if others (including at least one other mentor)
>
> > agree I'd be ok to promote the fixed release to Incubator PMC vote
>
> > except for one thing: I suggest including in the Incubator PMC vote
>
> > message instructions for reviewing the license/copyright header
>
> > changes done since the code was imported from the Oracle donation, can
>
> > you provide those? Probably just a git diff command or URL. A
>
> > reference (git tag?) to tools used for these changes is also useful.
>
>
> I made the change in two steps:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j/commit/
> a262480a0126b67975389685925bf5c3e13b4061
>
> and then, after review by Jan Lahoda, I've also added:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j/commit/
> b4fdfc8314c8073059e91de4eea586d194a6b76f
>
> Then the change has been reviewed by Craig.
>
>
> We used a wikipage to track our steps: https://cwiki.apache.org/
> confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+Transition+Process - see the html4j
> columns.
>
>
> >
>
> > The digests are ok.
>
> >
>
> > I cannot verify the signature as I haven't found your 7E654BAC public
>
> > key online, see the "PMC members please add your PGP keys to
>
> > https://id.apache.org; thread here.
>
>
> I'll work on fixing this today.
>
>
> >
>
> >  wrote:
>
> > > ...The incubating-netbeans-html4j-1.5.zip.asc isn't present on the
> server
>
> > > (as I would need to upload my private key there),...
>
> >
>
> > IIUC this is because the release is generated by Jenkins and you don't
>
> > want it to have your private key - sounds reasonable ;-)
>
> >
>
> > In this case maybe it's more convenient to keep the .asc file in the
>
> > gi tools repository before the release happens?
>
> > This also allows others to add their own signature if desired.
>
>
> I plan to use the same technique I used to sign build #17, I just make
> sure the key is properly registered.
>
>
> > zip archive review:
>
> >
>
> > 1) DISCLAIMER is missing, for a podling this is enough to reject the
>
> > release. See also DEPENDENCIES below, the same mechanism can be used
>
> > to generate both.
>
>
> Both of these files are now added to the repository:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j/commit/
> 9dd7a4c2bdf207c81e6cf692f12689c19efebd02
>
>
> > 2) In the NOTICE, I find this confusing
> > ...I would prefer
>
> >
>
> > "The initial code is based on NetBeans HTML/Java API modules kindly
>
> > donated by Oracle Corp to the Apache Software Foundation"
>
>
> Changed as you suggested:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j/commit/
> 8952acf173e0a0cd6783867246c030d775820491
>
>
> >
>
> > 3) Having a DEPENDENCIES file would make it much easier to validate
>
> > third-party dependencies, see this recent thread:
>
> >
>
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b82a116ec77639c49528d654a488ff
> 354ca8edf
>
> > b8f4f380865762275@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E
>
> >
>
> > Right now, " mvn dependency:tree" lists some unfamiliar dependencies,
>
> > having their license in DEPENDENCIES would help validate them.
>
>
> I've added the plugin as suggested
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j/commit/
> 9dd7a4c2bdf207c81e6cf692f12689c19efebd02#diff-
> 600376dffeb79835ede4a0b285078036
>
> and copied the DEPENDENCIES and DISCLAIMER files into root of the git
> repository.
>
>
> > 4) A quick build with "mvn clean install -DskipTests" works including
>
> > apache-rat-plugin:0.12:check .
>
>
> Good.
>
>
> > The tests take a long time to run, I
>
> > haven't checked if there's a way to run just unit tests.
>
>
> The build with tests [takes few minutes](https://builds.
> apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-html4j-linux/8/). It is using JavaFX
> WebView behind the scene and there may be various issues with it. If the
> build gets stalled, feel free to generate jstack thread dump and report me
> a bug. However that is just a functional problem, nothing to prevent an
> incubating release, I assume.
>
>
> >
>
> > 5) the apache-rat-plugin excludes look good to me:
>
>
> OK.
>
>
> > 6) The release includes source code only, apart from a few .png
>
> > (test?) images which are fine.
>
>
> ./geo/src/main/java/net/java/html/geo/doc-files/GeoDuke.png
> 

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #144: Use InputSource to parse xml avoid encoding i...

[JaroslavTulach]

Github user JaroslavTulach commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/144
  
I used: `curl https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/144.patch | 
git am` to apply the patch. Let see if it helps.

In general XML shall contain its encoding inside of its `` 
header, so I am surprised the change should help. But let us see.


---

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Illya Kysil]

Hi Martin,

> Also, what if you generate sources with a maven plugin into a folder
> different from "/target/generated-sources/" ?

Do you use Maven to perform actual builds?
If yes, how standard Maven plugins are configured to access those sources?


> As always - other IDEs handle it with no problems, but Netbeans does not
> recognize them and you can't do nothing about it.

That statement is simply not true, especially "you can't do nothing about
it" section.
NetBeans 8+ will happily recognize additional sources/resources when those
are properly configured in POM.
Check out links below:
http://www.mojohaus.org/build-helper-maven-plugin/usage.html
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9752972/how-to-add-an-extra-source-directory-for-maven-to-compile-and-include-in-the-bui?answertab=active#tab-top


Feel free to ask additional questions on users@ list.


Regards,


On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 1:37 AM Antonio Vieiro  wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> Thanks for your feedback. Good to know you’re still using NetBeans. By
> “Eclipse’s dependency tree tool” what do you mean? Something like [1] or
> like [2]?
>
> Should we move these kind of emails to the user list?
>
> Thanks,
> Antonio
>
> [1]
> https://books.sonatype.com/m2eclipse-book/reference/figs/web/eclipse_pom-editor-graph-radial.png
> [2]
> https://books.sonatype.com/m2eclipse-book/reference/figs/web/eclipse_pom-editor-depend-tree.png
>
>
> > El 13 oct 2017, a las 22:10, Martin Dindoffer 
> escribió:
> >
> > Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can
> be
> > found in other IDEs.
> >
> > For example, you can't "ctrl+click" through the remote parent references
> in
> > the poms.
> > And that's a pita in large projects where parents are often only in some
> > remote repos.
> >
> > Also, what if you generate sources with a maven plugin into a folder
> > different from "/target/generated-sources/" ?
> > As always - other IDEs handle it with no problems, but Netbeans does not
> > recognize them and you can't do nothing about it.
> > There was an issue for this way back then. It was closed as won't fix
> IIRC.
> >
> > Also, take a look at Eclipse's dependency tree tool. Compared to that
> > Netbeans has only the "graph" that
> >
> > 1. looks outdated,
> > 2. has visual glitches on newer systems
> > 3. quickly becomes a slow mess in large projects
> > 4. does not show you the actual tree hierarchy (unbelievably useful,
> again
> > in big projects with many parents)
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 2017-10-13 19:03 GMT+02:00 Ciprian Ciubotariu :
> >
> >> The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in
> >> eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans
> >> projects -
> >> no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE
> that
> >> you
> >> don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...
> >>
> >> On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
>  What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things,
> >> for
>  others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you
> >> can
>  play in this project.
> >>>
> >>> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
> >>> The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind
> other
> >>> major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
> >>> Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
> >>> those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
> >>> Absolutely not.
> >>> If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
> >>> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> >>> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is
> unusable
> >> on
> >>> large projects.
> >>> * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
> >>> * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
> >>> * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang
> >> anyone?)
> >>> * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to
> a
> >>> minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it
> does.
> >> *
> >>> Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
> >>> lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing
> >> html.
> >>>
> >>> I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of
> exceptions
> >> I
> >>> receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
> >>> There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even
> likes
> >>> to crash.
> >>> Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
> >>> everything be reported via a ticket manually.
> >>>
>  Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
> >>>
> >>> something
> >>>
>  small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first.
> >> Then, at
>  some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's 

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Antonio Vieiro]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your feedback. Good to know you’re still using NetBeans. By 
“Eclipse’s dependency tree tool” what do you mean? Something like [1] or like 
[2]?

Should we move these kind of emails to the user list?

Thanks,
Antonio

[1] 
https://books.sonatype.com/m2eclipse-book/reference/figs/web/eclipse_pom-editor-graph-radial.png
[2] 
https://books.sonatype.com/m2eclipse-book/reference/figs/web/eclipse_pom-editor-depend-tree.png
 


> El 13 oct 2017, a las 22:10, Martin Dindoffer  escribió:
> 
> Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can be
> found in other IDEs.
> 
> For example, you can't "ctrl+click" through the remote parent references in
> the poms.
> And that's a pita in large projects where parents are often only in some
> remote repos.
> 
> Also, what if you generate sources with a maven plugin into a folder
> different from "/target/generated-sources/" ?
> As always - other IDEs handle it with no problems, but Netbeans does not
> recognize them and you can't do nothing about it.
> There was an issue for this way back then. It was closed as won't fix IIRC.
> 
> Also, take a look at Eclipse's dependency tree tool. Compared to that
> Netbeans has only the "graph" that
> 
> 1. looks outdated,
> 2. has visual glitches on newer systems
> 3. quickly becomes a slow mess in large projects
> 4. does not show you the actual tree hierarchy (unbelievably useful, again
> in big projects with many parents)
> 
> Martin
> 
> 2017-10-13 19:03 GMT+02:00 Ciprian Ciubotariu :
> 
>> The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in
>> eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans
>> projects -
>> no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE that
>> you
>> don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...
>> 
>> On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
 What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things,
>> for
 others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you
>> can
 play in this project.
>>> 
>>> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
>>> The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
>>> major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
>>> Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
>>> those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
>>> Absolutely not.
>>> If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
>>> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
>>> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable
>> on
>>> large projects.
>>> * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
>>> * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
>>> * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang
>> anyone?)
>>> * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
>>> minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does.
>> *
>>> Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
>>> lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing
>> html.
>>> 
>>> I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions
>> I
>>> receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
>>> There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
>>> to crash.
>>> Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
>>> everything be reported via a ticket manually.
>>> 
 Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
>>> 
>>> something
>>> 
 small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first.
>> Then, at
 some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
 around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
 say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send
>> a
 pull request for others to review.
>>> 
>>> I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good
>> idea.
>>> Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
>>> 
>>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> 

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #70: WIP custom ant task to produce html report fro...

[ebarboni]

Github user ebarboni commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/70
  
parsing xml with file seems to be dangerous for encoding. #144 use 
InputSource. Seems to fix the issue on my new non UTF-8 image. 


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #144: Use InputSource to parse xml avoid enc...

[ebarboni]

GitHub user ebarboni opened a pull request:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/144

Use InputSource to parse xml avoid encoding issue

Attempt to fix build due to encoding issue in #70 

You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

$ git pull https://github.com/ebarboni/incubator-netbeans ratissue

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/144.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

This closes #144


commit 560c85307630f032768ee14b2c9ca84d0aac789b
Author: Eric Barboni 
Date:   2017-10-13T22:28:34Z

Use InputSource to parse xml avoid encoding issue




---

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:04 AM, Martin Dindoffer 
wrote:

> Sure, I was just trying to explain myself, and also the opinions of others
> around me. Of course Netbeans has many positives, otherwise I wouldn't use
> it. But we need to take a sober realistic look at it if we want to move it
> forward and make it a top notch IDE it once was.
>
> I actually have to endure a lot of jokes and questions like "when will you
> use a real IDE?" from my colleagues and friends. Believe it or not, there
> is a reason why NB has such a bad reputation among devs.
> I very much believe my lone continued usage of NB is a good way of
> advocating for NB.
>
> Martin



Sure, but you also need to stop this -- NetBeans has a great reputation,
too.

Much appreciate your continuing usage and support and so on, however,
there's no need to excuse yourself to anyone about usage of NetBeans.

Here's something you can refer to, i.e., NetBeans usage in real large
enterprises, e.g., Boeing, NASA, and so on:

https://dzone.com/articles/five-favorite-netbeans-features

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Martin Dindoffer]

Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can be
found in other IDEs.

For example, you can't "ctrl+click" through the remote parent references in
the poms.
And that's a pita in large projects where parents are often only in some
remote repos.

Also, what if you generate sources with a maven plugin into a folder
different from "/target/generated-sources/" ?
As always - other IDEs handle it with no problems, but Netbeans does not
recognize them and you can't do nothing about it.
There was an issue for this way back then. It was closed as won't fix IIRC.

Also, take a look at Eclipse's dependency tree tool. Compared to that
Netbeans has only the "graph" that

1. looks outdated,
2. has visual glitches on newer systems
3. quickly becomes a slow mess in large projects
4. does not show you the actual tree hierarchy (unbelievably useful, again
in big projects with many parents)

Martin

2017-10-13 19:03 GMT+02:00 Ciprian Ciubotariu :

> The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in
> eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans
> projects -
> no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE that
> you
> don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...
>
> On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
> > > What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things,
> for
> > > others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you
> can
> > > play in this project.
> >
> > Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
> > The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
> > major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
> > Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
> > those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
> > Absolutely not.
> > If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
> > * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> > periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable
> on
> > large projects.
> > * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
> > * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
> > * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang
> anyone?)
> > * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
> > minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does.
> *
> > Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
> > lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing
> html.
> >
> > I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions
> I
> > receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
> > There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
> > to crash.
> > Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
> > everything be reported via a ticket manually.
> >
> > > Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
> >
> > something
> >
> > > small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first.
> Then, at
> > > some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
> > > around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
> > > say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send
> a
> > > pull request for others to review.
> >
> > I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good
> idea.
> > Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
> >
> > Martin
>
>
>

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #126: [NETBEANS-54] Replace Oracle license in form ...

[matthiasblaesing]

Github user matthiasblaesing commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/126
  
Agreed. I rebased the changes onto head and merged that. Thank you.


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #126: [NETBEANS-54] Replace Oracle license i...

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/126


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #128: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review javafx2.sample

[matthiasblaesing]

Github user matthiasblaesing commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/128
  
Thank you.


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #128: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review javafx2.sa...

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/128


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #133: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review libs.cglib

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/133


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #134: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review httpserver

[vieiro]

Github user vieiro commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/134
  
Hi,

All tests should pass now, but I think the line
ext/webserver-3.2.4.jar
should look like 
ext/webserver.jar

The "runtime relative path" is the final destination path of the jar when 
the IDE/platform is built. If this is changed I think that any other modules 
referring to this jar may fail at runtime



---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #137: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review refactoring.api

[matthiasblaesing]

Github user matthiasblaesing commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/137
  
Looks good.


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #140: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review java.edito...

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/140


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #141: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review nbjunit

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/141


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #142: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review spi.debugger.ui

[matthiasblaesing]

Github user matthiasblaesing commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/142
  
Nice!


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #142: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review spi.debugg...

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/142


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #143: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review o.apache.ws.commo...

[matthiasblaesing]

Github user matthiasblaesing commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/143
  
The binary file is effectively identical. The difference is in the pom.xml 
files:

https://try.diffoscope.org/tsvpkrrvedcy.html


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #143: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review o.apache.w...

[asfgit]

Github user asfgit closed the pull request at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/143


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #70: WIP custom ant task to produce html report fro...

[ebarboni]

Github user ebarboni commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/70
  
Strange, 
 I wipe and recreate a build base on apache/incubator-netbeans, on a 
private jenkins (it works). A difference I notice is that  encoding on the 
apache H21,h24 node are iso while my jenkins os or docker image are UTF-8


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #70: WIP custom ant task to produce html report fro...

[JaroslavTulach]

Github user JaroslavTulach commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/70
  
The build is failing: 
https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-linux/114/console
I am not sure why right now.


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #143: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review o.apache.w...

[vieiro]

GitHub user vieiro opened a pull request:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/143

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review o.apache.ws.commons.util

  - Updated maven coordinates for Apache WS Commons Util (Apache 2.0)
  - No notice found at 
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/webservices/commons/trunk/modules/util/
  - No other licensing issues found (manifest.mf to be handled centrally)

You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

$ git pull https://github.com/vieiro/incubator-netbeans 
netbeans-54-module-review-o.apache.ws.commons.util

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/143.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

This closes #143


commit 2974aa36c45c994f5d0f82ef8636eeb7d22d6240
Author: Antonio Vieiro 
Date:   2017-10-13T17:16:02Z

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review o.apache.ws.commons.util

  - Updated maven coordinates for Apache WS Commons Util (Apache 2.0)
  - No notice found at 
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/webservices/commons/trunk/modules/util/
  - No other licensing issues found (manifest.mf to be handled centrally)




---

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Ciprian Ciubotariu]

The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in 
eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans projects - 
no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE that you 
don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...

On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
> > What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> > others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> > play in this project.
> 
> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
> The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
> major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
> Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
> those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
> Absolutely not.
> If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable on
> large projects.
> * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
> * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
> * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang anyone?)
> * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
> minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does. *
> Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
> lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing html.
> 
> I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions I
> receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
> There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
> to crash.
> Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
> everything be reported via a ticket manually.
> 
> > Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
> 
> something
> 
> > small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first. Then, at
> > some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
> > around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
> > say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send a
> > pull request for others to review.
> 
> I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good idea.
> Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
> 
> Martin

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #135: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review dlight.nativeexec...

[vieiro]

Github user vieiro commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/135
  
The assumption is correct: external/exchlp-1.0.zip (generated within the 
module)[ is indeed covered by the Apache 2.0 
License:](https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-netbeans-dev/201710.mbox/%3c59e0859a.6020...@oracle.com%3e)



---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #142: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review spi.debugg...

[vieiro]

GitHub user vieiro opened a pull request:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/142

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review spi.debugger.ui

  - No external binaries.
  - Removed previous license from many META-INF files.
  - Two files to be handled centrally (*.sig, manifest.mf)
  - Two tests failing (both before and after changes): 
org.netbeans.api.debugger.ProvidersAnnotationTest and 
org.netbeans.api.debugger.WatchesTest
  - No other licensing issues found.

You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

$ git pull https://github.com/vieiro/incubator-netbeans 
netbeans-54-module-review-spi.debugger.ui

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/142.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

This closes #142


commit 9f656ca7709f69e78eb2b61c42441e3744c35d69
Author: Antonio Vieiro 
Date:   2017-10-13T16:41:08Z

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review spi.debugger.ui

  - No external binaries.
  - Removed previous license from many META-INF files.
  - Two files to be handled centrally (*.sig, manifest.mf)
  - Two tests failing (both before and after changes): 
org.netbeans.api.debugger.ProvidersAnnotationTest and 
org.netbeans.api.debugger.WatchesTest
  - No other licensing issues found.




---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #70: WIP custom ant task to produce html report fro...

[JaroslavTulach]

Github user JaroslavTulach commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/70
  
Integrated as 162850d67436764aef5e5dd6016ca636d94921af - builds modified to 
pick the generated .xml files up.


---

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #70: WIP custom ant task to produce html report fro...

[JaroslavTulach]

Github user JaroslavTulach commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/70
  
OK, I try to merge.


---

Re: Request for clarification on review process on NetBeans with pngs and other odd files found

[Antonio Vieiro]

Hi,

- Just ignore image files (png/jpg/gif).
- Add a comment to the xml files (you can copy it from nproject/project.xml). 

Greetings & thanks,
Antonio


> El 13 oct 2017, a las 16:15, mark stephens  
> escribió:
> 
> I have reviewed my first module (performance), and found some pngs and xml 
> files in a package without headers in src/threaddemo/util/doc-files
> 
> What is the correct way to handle these?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> MArk

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Martin Dindoffer]

Yeah a notification would be great.
Thanks Emilian

Martin

2017-10-13 16:15 GMT+02:00 Emilian Bold :

> I'll look into caching and push an update to the plugin, hopefully
> this month. Should I ping you when I have new binaries?
>
> I assume it might not be only about the size, but about the sudden
> burst of requests during the initial load.
>
> --emi
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Martin Dindoffer 
> wrote:
> > @Emilian Bold - Well I am working on a quite large multimodule project.
> > So that could be it. The pom file I've been working on during the
> > exceptions was quite small with only a few dependencies.
> > However, it has a few "type:pom,scope:import" dependencies too, so that
> may
> > inflate the number of requests, don't know.
> >
> > Martin
>

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Emilian Bold]

I'll look into caching and push an update to the plugin, hopefully
this month. Should I ping you when I have new binaries?

I assume it might not be only about the size, but about the sudden
burst of requests during the initial load.

--emi


On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Martin Dindoffer  wrote:
> @Emilian Bold - Well I am working on a quite large multimodule project.
> So that could be it. The pom file I've been working on during the
> exceptions was quite small with only a few dependencies.
> However, it has a few "type:pom,scope:import" dependencies too, so that may
> inflate the number of requests, don't know.
>
> Martin

Request for clarification on review process on NetBeans with pngs and other odd files found

[mark stephens]

I have reviewed my first module (performance), and found some pngs and xml 
files in a package without headers in src/threaddemo/util/doc-files

What is the correct way to handle these?

Regards,

MArk

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Martin Dindoffer]

@Emilian Bold - Well I am working on a quite large multimodule project.
So that could be it. The pom file I've been working on during the
exceptions was quite small with only a few dependencies.
However, it has a few "type:pom,scope:import" dependencies too, so that may
inflate the number of requests, don't know.

Martin

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Emilian Bold]

@Martin Dindoffer: I'm the author of that plugin. My guess is you have
been hitting search.maven.org too often and they are rate limiting
you. Do you have lots and lots of dependencies or some other reason
the plugin could be queries a lot?

One thing I'm not doing in the plugin is caching. I didn't need it for
small projects but it might add up for larger (or different) projects
since I wouldn't have to query search.maven.org so often.

--emi


On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Martin Dindoffer  wrote:
>> > For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
>> > https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-mave
> n-remote-search
>> > I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure
> Emilian
>> > would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?
>>
>> I will try that and report later if it helps, thanks Geertjan.
>
> Well the plugin seems to work. At least it seems to connect to central for
> artifacts' version autocomplete.
> But also gives me even more exceptions (https://pastebin.com/mw7jzrNw) than
> I already have to deal with, so I think I'll uninstall it for now.
>
> Martin
>
> 2017-10-13 14:42 GMT+02:00 Christian Lenz :
>
>> I started to migrate my Bugs to Apache. They are still valid over the
>> years. About 180 or so (more/less). So to migrate others will take users
>> care that NetBeans moves to Apache and they will see it in JIRA or
>> wherever. It will be good, if this could Combine with github issue tracker,
>> because not everyone has an Apache account or want one, but most of the
>> developers, thats my opinion, have a github account and want to create
>> tickets there, this is more transparent for all of us.
>>
>> I have things at my daily work, which are pain in the asses, like the
>> update functionality of NPM packages per Project, or the search to adding a
>> new one, or the biggesete Problem is to have multiple files which Points to
>> different Project types in one Project. Which Project will win? I had a
>> html5 project with a package json, now we added a pom file to it because we
>> needed it for Nexus and now it is a maven Project…so my stuff like build
>> theHTML5 project, run grunt or gulp or npm or the other Options made only
>> for the HTML5 project, doesn’t work anymore.
>>
>> And and and. Had long discussions about that but in the and, if we want to
>> let the community  be a part of it, we should spread it more widely and not
>> only over Mailing lists. Often People uses what is new and fancy, yeah that
>> is not the Apache way but we should not force that People that they Need
>> this stuff.
>>
>> Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
>>
>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 13:35
>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>> >
>>
>> There are various schools of thought on this question.
>>
>> We could move all issues over.
>>
>> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
>> that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
>> once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>>
>> It's certainly doable.
>>
>> A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
>> create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
>> NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
>> NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
>> about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
>> everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>>
>> We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
>> them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>>
>> Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
>> we could vote on it.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Martin Dindoffer]

> > For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
> > https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-mave
n-remote-search
> > I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure
Emilian
> > would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?
>
> I will try that and report later if it helps, thanks Geertjan.

Well the plugin seems to work. At least it seems to connect to central for
artifacts' version autocomplete.
But also gives me even more exceptions (https://pastebin.com/mw7jzrNw) than
I already have to deal with, so I think I'll uninstall it for now.

Martin

2017-10-13 14:42 GMT+02:00 Christian Lenz :

> I started to migrate my Bugs to Apache. They are still valid over the
> years. About 180 or so (more/less). So to migrate others will take users
> care that NetBeans moves to Apache and they will see it in JIRA or
> wherever. It will be good, if this could Combine with github issue tracker,
> because not everyone has an Apache account or want one, but most of the
> developers, thats my opinion, have a github account and want to create
> tickets there, this is more transparent for all of us.
>
> I have things at my daily work, which are pain in the asses, like the
> update functionality of NPM packages per Project, or the search to adding a
> new one, or the biggesete Problem is to have multiple files which Points to
> different Project types in one Project. Which Project will win? I had a
> html5 project with a package json, now we added a pom file to it because we
> needed it for Nexus and now it is a maven Project…so my stuff like build
> theHTML5 project, run grunt or gulp or npm or the other Options made only
> for the HTML5 project, doesn’t work anymore.
>
> And and and. Had long discussions about that but in the and, if we want to
> let the community  be a part of it, we should spread it more widely and not
> only over Mailing lists. Often People uses what is new and fancy, yeah that
> is not the Apache way but we should not force that People that they Need
> this stuff.
>
> Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
>
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 13:35
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
> >
>
> There are various schools of thought on this question.
>
> We could move all issues over.
>
> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
> that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
> once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>
> It's certainly doable.
>
> A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
> create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
> NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
> NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
> about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
> everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>
> We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
> them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>
> Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
> we could vote on it.
>
> Gj
>
>

AW: NetBeans 9 release date

[Christian Lenz]

I started to migrate my Bugs to Apache. They are still valid over the years. 
About 180 or so (more/less). So to migrate others will take users care that 
NetBeans moves to Apache and they will see it in JIRA or wherever. It will be 
good, if this could Combine with github issue tracker, because not everyone has 
an Apache account or want one, but most of the developers, thats my opinion, 
have a github account and want to create tickets there, this is more 
transparent for all of us.

I have things at my daily work, which are pain in the asses, like the update 
functionality of NPM packages per Project, or the search to adding a new one, 
or the biggesete Problem is to have multiple files which Points to different 
Project types in one Project. Which Project will win? I had a html5 project 
with a package json, now we added a pom file to it because we needed it for 
Nexus and now it is a maven Project…so my stuff like build theHTML5 project, 
run grunt or gulp or npm or the other Options made only for the HTML5 project, 
doesn’t work anymore.

And and and. Had long discussions about that but in the and, if we want to let 
the community  be a part of it, we should spread it more widely and not only 
over Mailing lists. Often People uses what is new and fancy, yeah that is not 
the Apache way but we should not force that People that they Need this stuff.

Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10

Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 13:35
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro  wrote:

>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>

There are various schools of thought on this question.

We could move all issues over.

Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.

It's certainly doable.

A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.

We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.

Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
we could vote on it.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Neil C Smith]

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> We could move all issues over.
>
> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
> that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
> once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>
>
Do we have to take an all or nothing approach?  What about auto-closing
everything before a certain date (~6 months?) / milestone (8.2?) with a
message to re-report in Apache, but copying forward the more recent open
stuff for evaluation?

Best wishes,

Neil
-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

RE: NetBeans 9 release date

[Cezariusz Marek]

I think it would be way more work to copy all valid issues by hand than just 
import all *open* issues from Bugzilla to JIRA and evaluate them later. Moving 
manually will probably lose votes, comments, and maybe other valuable 
information.

-- 
Cezariusz Marek


-Original Message-
From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 1:36 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: NetBeans 9 release date

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro  wrote:

>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>

There are various schools of thought on this question.

We could move all issues over.

Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features 
that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to, once 
the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.

It's certainly doable.

A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we 
create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache 
NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle NetBeans 
Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned about but that 
would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate everything over to 
Apache NetBeans JIRA.

We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to 
them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.

Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward we 
could vote on it.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[bernd.ruehlicke]

"Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch" is the most realistic way. It will address 
issues observed from the latest builds. Adding links Oracle NetBeans Bugzilla 
is a good compromise as of course there are many which need to be looked at. 
Some search option on the old bugs which can help.
Just my 5 centsBernd
 Original message From: Geertjan Wielenga 
 Date: 10/13/17  06:35  (GMT-06:00) To: 
dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: NetBeans 9 release date 
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro  wrote:

>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>

There are various schools of thought on this question.

We could move all issues over.

Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.

It's certainly doable.

A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.

We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.

Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
we could vote on it.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro  wrote:

>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>

There are various schools of thought on this question.

We could move all issues over.

Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.

It's certainly doable.

A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.

We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.

Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
we could vote on it.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Antonio Vieiro]

> El 13 oct 2017, a las 12:41, Martin Dindoffer  escribió:
> 
>> What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
>> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
>> play in this project.
> 
> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.

Hi Martin, thanks for all that feedback.

I think we should be adding this to the bug tracking system. This is valuable 
feedback from a daily user that, despite of daily exceptions and periodic 
hangs, keeps on using the IDE at work.

I was wondering if JIRA is here to stay, if so we should think how well it fits 
the project (priorities, votes, components, etc.) and if it does fit then start 
writing down all this requests for features.

BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?

Cheers,
Antonio

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Martin Dindoffer]

> For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
> https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-
maven-remote-search

> I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure Emilian
> would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?

I will try that and report later if it helps, thanks Geertjan.
Martin

2017-10-13 12:59 GMT+02:00 Neil C Smith :

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:00 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think it would be great to have Darcula be one of the standard look and
> > feels in NetBeans, have contacted the plugin author about this, though
> also
> > probably there'll be licensing concerns and other issues since this comes
> > from a look and feel created at JetBrains.
> >
>
> The Darcula LAF is Apache licensed [1].  In fact, if anything our license
> change makes things better as the current NB plugin has more licensing
> issues as it mixes code from NetBeans and from the original LAF.
>
> For that matter, the whole core of Intellij is also Apache licensed [2] -
> one thing I'm hoping is that with our licensing change there might be some
> scope for useful collaboration on some things.  In particular, it's no
> secret I think JavaFX is a dead-end.  I'm not sure I foresee a time when
> either project moves UI to JavaFX - maybe I'm wrong.  In the meantime,
> while we're both using a UI toolkit that is semi-deprecated, maybe there is
> useful collaboration to be done around Swing?
>
> Interestingly, given all the work / posts I've done around dark custom
> themes, and that I use a fork of Darcula for the Praxis LIVE UI, my
> NetBeans install proudly displays stock Nimbus on all 3 OS, and has done
> for years! ;-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> [1] - https://github.com/bulenkov/Darcula
> [2] - https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>

Re: Linking GitHub account to

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Or maybe we should vote on this as a community before going ahead with it?

Gj

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-15271
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, sounds like there are no objects -- and a lot of advantages -- to
>> using GitBox, so I'll request it (and looking forward to being able to do
>> merges from GitHub).
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/11/2017 02:06 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>> > I think that would be handy -- are there any disadvantages?
>>>
>>> Other than 'github could go away', not really.
>>> but it's an opt-in service, so the PPMC has to formally request a move :)
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Gj
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Daniel Gruno 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 10/11/2017 02:00 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have permissions for Apache NetBeans Git -- how do I connect my
>>> GitHub
>>> >>> account to those permissions so that I can do merges of pull
>>> requests?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Or is that not possible and should merges be done to Git, with asfgit
>>> >> doing
>>> >>> the sync from Git to GitHub?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Gj
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> It's possible on gitbox - the project could request being moved to
>>> >> gitbox.apache.org and get github write access for all committers.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Linking GitHub account to

[Geertjan Wielenga]

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-15271

Gj

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> OK, sounds like there are no objects -- and a lot of advantages -- to
> using GitBox, so I'll request it (and looking forward to being able to do
> merges from GitHub).
>
> Gj
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno 
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/2017 02:06 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>> > I think that would be handy -- are there any disadvantages?
>>
>> Other than 'github could go away', not really.
>> but it's an opt-in service, so the PPMC has to formally request a move :)
>>
>> >
>> > Gj
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Daniel Gruno 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 10/11/2017 02:00 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I have permissions for Apache NetBeans Git -- how do I connect my
>> GitHub
>> >>> account to those permissions so that I can do merges of pull requests?
>> >>>
>> >>> Or is that not possible and should merges be done to Git, with asfgit
>> >> doing
>> >>> the sync from Git to GitHub?
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> Gj
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> It's possible on gitbox - the project could request being moved to
>> >> gitbox.apache.org and get github write access for all committers.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: Linking GitHub account to

[Geertjan Wielenga]

OK, sounds like there are no objects -- and a lot of advantages -- to using
GitBox, so I'll request it (and looking forward to being able to do merges
from GitHub).

Gj

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> On 10/11/2017 02:06 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > I think that would be handy -- are there any disadvantages?
>
> Other than 'github could go away', not really.
> but it's an opt-in service, so the PPMC has to formally request a move :)
>
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Daniel Gruno 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/11/2017 02:00 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I have permissions for Apache NetBeans Git -- how do I connect my
> GitHub
> >>> account to those permissions so that I can do merges of pull requests?
> >>>
> >>> Or is that not possible and should merges be done to Git, with asfgit
> >> doing
> >>> the sync from Git to GitHub?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>
> >> It's possible on gitbox - the project could request being moved to
> >> gitbox.apache.org and get github write access for all committers.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Neil C Smith]

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:00 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I think it would be great to have Darcula be one of the standard look and
> feels in NetBeans, have contacted the plugin author about this, though also
> probably there'll be licensing concerns and other issues since this comes
> from a look and feel created at JetBrains.
>

The Darcula LAF is Apache licensed [1].  In fact, if anything our license
change makes things better as the current NB plugin has more licensing
issues as it mixes code from NetBeans and from the original LAF.

For that matter, the whole core of Intellij is also Apache licensed [2] -
one thing I'm hoping is that with our licensing change there might be some
scope for useful collaboration on some things.  In particular, it's no
secret I think JavaFX is a dead-end.  I'm not sure I foresee a time when
either project moves UI to JavaFX - maybe I'm wrong.  In the meantime,
while we're both using a UI toolkit that is semi-deprecated, maybe there is
useful collaboration to be done around Swing?

Interestingly, given all the work / posts I've done around dark custom
themes, and that I use a fork of Darcula for the Praxis LIVE UI, my
NetBeans install proudly displays stock Nimbus on all 3 OS, and has done
for years! ;-)

Best wishes,

Neil

[1] - https://github.com/bulenkov/Darcula
[2] - https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Antonio  wrote:

>
>
> On 13/10/17 10:49, Peter Steele wrote:
>
>> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it
>> should
>> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
>> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>>
>>
> Exactly. We should plan the announcement of Apache NetBeans very
> carefully. Some key messages I'd suggest: "We're kicking butt again", "Come
> and participate" and "How can we help you today?".



Note that, until very recently, though we have announced the move to Apache
all over the place, we -- at netbeans.org -- didn't yet want to make any
changes there since no actual code was yet in Apache NetBeans Git.

Since part of it is there now, since the past month or so, we should look
at this (aside from the task of moving it all to Apache and so on):

We now, since the last 5 minutes, have on the front page, i.e., netbeans.org,
the clear statement "NetBeans IDE is free, open source, and is moving to
Apache!".

Do you see it now, on netbeans.org, together with a link (when you move
over it and we had to make it white otherwise the blue of the link would
make it invisible against the background).

Should anything else be put there, happy to do anything to make it all
clearer, now that we have code in Apache NetBeans Git.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Martin Dindoffer 
wrote:

>
> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable on
> large projects.
>


That's an interesting observation because for most people a key reason to
switch to NetBeans is the Maven support.

I.e., any folder with a POM is automatically a Maven project and NetBeans
parses the POM and builds the project structure in NetBeans from that,
among other nice integrations between Maven and NetBeans.

For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-maven-remote-search

I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure Emilian
would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?

Gj

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #141: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review nbjunit

[geertjanw]

GitHub user geertjanw opened a pull request:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/141

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review nbjunit



You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

$ git pull https://github.com/geertjanw/incubator-netbeans 
netbeans-54-review-nbjunit

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/141.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

This closes #141


commit d854053c1f6a86c4fe382217f50b48291ad943a3
Author: geertjan 
Date:   2017-10-13T10:44:49Z

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review nbjunit




---

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Martin Dindoffer]

> What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> play in this project.

Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
Absolutely not.
If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
* Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable on
large projects.
* JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
* The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
* Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang anyone?)
* When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does.
* Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing html.

I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions I
receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
to crash.
Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
everything be reported via a ticket manually.

> Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
something
> small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first. Then, at
> some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
> around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
> say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send a
> pull request for others to review.

I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good idea.
Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.

Martin

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans issue #126: [NETBEANS-54] Replace Oracle license in form ...

[geertjanw]

Github user geertjanw commented on the issue:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/126
  
This would be good to merge, since there are many files we'll be able to 
exclude from the Rat report in this way.


---

Re: Odd Sun Public License Notice chunk in test generator

[Geertjan Wielenga]

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/140

Hope it helps!

Gj

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> OK, no worries at all, will do it.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Emilian Bold 
> wrote:
>
>> Sure, I was just pointing out a file I won't change so somebody else steps
>> in. The file is also listed in cwiki.
>>
>>
>> --emi
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Everything licensed to Oracle or to Sun in the ZIP donated by Oracle to
>> > Apache is without any question part of Oracle's donation of NetBeans to
>> > Apache.
>> >
>> > Gj
>> >
>> > On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 at 15:45, Emilian Bold 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > The
>> > >
>> > > java.editor/test/qa-functional/src/org/netbeans/
>> > test/java/editor/completion/create
>> > > shell script in java.editor seems to generate some tests.
>> > >
>> > > Part of the generated text has a "Sun Public License Notice" header.
>> See
>> > >
>> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/
>> > master/java.editor/test/qa-functional/src/org/netbeans/
>> > test/java/editor/completion/create#L56
>> > >
>> > > I suppose this is there from times immemorial.
>> > >
>> > > Could somebody from Oracle push a change for that file?
>> > >
>> > > --emi
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #140: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review java.edito...

[geertjanw]

GitHub user geertjanw opened a pull request:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/140

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review java.editor create shell script



You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

$ git pull https://github.com/geertjanw/incubator-netbeans 
netbeans-54-review-java.editor.completion.create

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/140.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

This closes #140


commit 63820d93eba17dcd527b64f4bce49ddfffb7600e
Author: geertjan 
Date:   2017-10-13T10:20:21Z

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review java.editor create shell script




---

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Peter Steele  wrote:

> >Have you tried this plugin:
> >plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
> >
> >Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.
>
> I use this, it's definitely the best look and feel that you can choose
> from. But the font used is something that puts me off.
>
>
Then change the font, or mention this in the comments here
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans, or
contribute to the project here https://github.com/Revivius/nb-darcula.

I think it would be great to have Darcula be one of the standard look and
feels in NetBeans, have contacted the plugin author about this, though also
probably there'll be licensing concerns and other issues since this comes
from a look and feel created at JetBrains.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Peter Steele]

>Have you tried this plugin:
>plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
>
>Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.

I use this, it's definitely the best look and feel that you can choose
from. But the font used is something that puts me off.


On 13 Oct 2017 10:18, "Geertjan Wielenga" 
wrote:

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Peter Steele  wrote:

> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it
should
> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>
> In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
> many specific things off hand but what I would say is
>
> - I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
> - the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
> look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)
>

Have you tried this plugin:
plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans

Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.



> - having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans
not
> as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the
build
> system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose
maven
> html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.
>

I think the Gradle plugin should be a standard part of Apache NetBeans,
though that is a decision that Attila Kelemen, the creator of the plugin,
needs to make:

https://github.com/kelemen/netbeans-gradle-project



> - android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
> standard support.
>

Yes, https://bitbucket.org/nbandroid/nbandroid/wiki/Installation is another
one that could be part of Apache NetBeans, depending on the developer who
created it, so that everyone can get involved in getting it to the next
level.



>
> Btw I like the fact netbeans has moved to Apache, netbeans has a lot going
> for it that is better than other ides. Hopefully the Apache integration
> will help it move quickly to a better place.
>


Yup.



> Step one though is making it clearer to users of netbeans that the
> integration is happening and progress is being made to get a new release
> out.
>
>
Well, step one was making sure we would succeed in getting the code out of
Oracle into Apache. That has recently succeeded, only over the past month
or so, with at least half more still to come.

So, we really needed there to be code in the Apache NetBeans Git repo
before we could start actively thinking about moving NetBeans users over to
Apache NetBeans.

Gj

Re: AW: NetBeans 9 release date

[Antonio]

On 13/10/17 11:24, Christian Lenz wrote:

The best IDE for Android is coming from Google and called Android Studio, which 
is based on Intellij . https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html I think 
they canceled the Support for the plugin for eclipse, for doing this.


Yes, I know, but "best IDE" should be "existing IDE".  I mean, Android 
Studio just sucks (with all respect due). I was wondering how much 
Google is paying Intellij guys for doing this.





Please don’t Forget all the webdevelopers like me, who are developing with 
AngularJS and Angular + TypeScript or React or Vue or whatever. Node, express 
Less, Sass, (Whish is not part of NetBeans, which is strange) and Scss (Which 
is part of NetBeans).


Agreed. That's a third user base.

Re: dlight.nativeexecution license TBD

[Vladimir Voskresensky]

Hi Antonio,

This is correct.

Thanks,
Vladimir.

On 12.10.2017 23:30, Antonio wrote:

Hi all,

As far as I can tell dlight.nativeexecution/external/ binaries are 
generated from the scripts and code in the tools directory [1]


So I've changed the binaries license from "TBD" to "Apache 2.0" in [2]

If this isn't correct then please let me know.

Thanks,
Antonio


[1] 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/master/dlight.nativeexecution/tools


[2] 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/dlight.nativeexecution/external/exechlp-1.0-license.txt

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

PS: See
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/on+top+of+NetBeans for
a list, this is the updated version, with more info being added, of
https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Antonio  wrote:

>
>
> On 13/10/17 09:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
>>> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
>>> what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>>>
>>
>> However I think NetBeans is more an end-user tool. I use it myself but
>> don't really care how it's built, and learning that would not help me
>> progress much in my careeer where I'm doing other things - with
>> similar technologies but other things.
>>
>
> It's important to know that the NetBeans user base is. Maybe we should
> start by defining that. I distinguish these two sets:
>
> - One part of the NetBeans user base is formed by (or was formed by) big
> companies and organizations such as NATO, The US Navy, the European Union,
> Boeing, NASA, ESA, UNESCO,  and many other companies, big and small. See
> [1] for a list. These companies and organizations may be interested in some
> sort of support, or may provide funding through sponshorships, so that the
> project is kept alive and up to date with new platforms and technologies.
> By listening to these user base we may learn how to improve the platform
> and understand what their problems are (installers?, UI improvements?, geo
> and map support?). And they may even want to donate code they built over
> the years.
>
> - Another part of the NetBeans user base is formed by Java
> (C/C++/Ruby/PHP) developers that prefer to use NetBeans as their IDE.
> NetBeans is well positioned as an IDE for PHP and C/C++ in Unix
> environments. I don't know what funding could be in these, maybe
> crowfunding is an option, as you say. Another option (a difficult one) is
> forking commercial products that concentrate in specific areas/requirements
> (say an IDE for R projects?) and that is funded by subscriptions, much like
> IntelliJ is doing.
>
> [1] https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html
>
>

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Peter Steele  wrote:

> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it should
> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>
> In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
> many specific things off hand but what I would say is
>
> - I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
> - the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
> look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)
>

Have you tried this plugin:
plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans

Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.



> - having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans not
> as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the build
> system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose maven
> html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.
>

I think the Gradle plugin should be a standard part of Apache NetBeans,
though that is a decision that Attila Kelemen, the creator of the plugin,
needs to make:

https://github.com/kelemen/netbeans-gradle-project



> - android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
> standard support.
>

Yes, https://bitbucket.org/nbandroid/nbandroid/wiki/Installation is another
one that could be part of Apache NetBeans, depending on the developer who
created it, so that everyone can get involved in getting it to the next
level.



>
> Btw I like the fact netbeans has moved to Apache, netbeans has a lot going
> for it that is better than other ides. Hopefully the Apache integration
> will help it move quickly to a better place.
>


Yup.



> Step one though is making it clearer to users of netbeans that the
> integration is happening and progress is being made to get a new release
> out.
>
>
Well, step one was making sure we would succeed in getting the code out of
Oracle into Apache. That has recently succeeded, only over the past month
or so, with at least half more still to come.

So, we really needed there to be code in the Apache NetBeans Git repo
before we could start actively thinking about moving NetBeans users over to
Apache NetBeans.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Antonio]

On 13/10/17 10:49, Peter Steele wrote:

The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it should
link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.



Exactly. We should plan the announcement of Apache NetBeans very 
carefully. Some key messages I'd suggest: "We're kicking butt again", 
"Come and participate" and "How can we help you today?".



In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
many specific things off hand but what I would say is

- I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
- the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)


Good point as well. We can't launch NetBeans on Unixes without the 
-J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=true and without using the GTK Look and Feel as 
a default option. The Swing Look and Feel was good in the nineties.



- having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans not
as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the build
system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose maven
html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.


We should start adding feature requirements to JIRA.


- android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
standard support.


Android has been missing for ages. And Google is desperate looking for a 
good Android IDE. Is there any funding here?

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Antonio  wrote:

>
>
> On 13/10/17 10:19, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
>> have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe
>> we
>> should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
>> cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different
>> place
>> to point to? Which page would be most effective?
>>
>
> I think it's important to think how we're going to transfer good Google
> positioning of tutorials, etc. i.e., have a good SEO transition.
>
>
Great point, can you add this info and other ideas to this part of the Wiki:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+Site

That way we have a central place where all related details can be
centralized.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Christian Lenz 
> wrote:
>
>> ➢ Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re
>> Apache?
>> ➢ I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where
>> would
>> ➢ you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the
>> Information
>> ➢ about NetBeans being at Apache?
>>
>> Where are the Information about it on netbeans.org? Only when you click
>> on community. On the main page it says it is Oracle no Apache info at all.
>> Maybe a link to the new one and to more info, right on the main page, which
>> should be more attractive, should be there.
>>
>
>
> OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
> have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe we
> should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
> cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different
> place to point to? Which page would be most effective?
>


On the front page of netbeans.org, I think this text:

"NetBeans IDE is FREE, open source, and has a worldwide community of users
and developers.”

...should be changed to this text:

“NetBeans IDE is free, open source, and is moving to Apache!”

And there should be a link connected to that sentence, pointing to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS.

Would that help? Or what/where specifically on the front page of
netbeans.org should there be info about Apache? I think the above would be
a simple start -- though any other ideas are welcome.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Antonio]

On 13/10/17 10:19, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:


OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe we
should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different place
to point to? Which page would be most effective?


I think it's important to think how we're going to transfer good Google 
positioning of tutorials, etc. i.e., have a good SEO transition.


"Relaunching Your Site? Don’t Even Think About It Without A Solid SEO 
Game Plan!" [1] is probably worth a read.


It's the first thing I found in Google, but it has the basics of a 
transition plan.


Cheers,
Antonio

[1] 
https://searchengineland.com/relaunching-site-dont-even-think-without-solid-seo-game-plan-231315

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Yeah they started and then they cancled it. The go plugins, are far away
> of usable. I talked to the devs, because you can see no source Code in the
> plugin Portal. One Project is at github now, the other one, I’m waiting for
> the Code. And there are Features missing to implement it as a plugin for
> NetBeans like the Options for indentation, you can’t do it. The Problem
> still exists for the TypeScript Editor: https://github.com/Everlaw/
> nbts/issues/81



That was not the question. The question was "WHY would someone work on a Go
plugin for free?"

And, clearly, people HAVE been working on various Go plugins, for free, for
whatever reason.

The next, and a totally separate question, is about the stability and
completeness of those plugins. I think, under Apache, the chances are much
bigger that people will not work on their own, so that the chance of
continued development is much larger than in the past.

Gj

AW: NetBeans 9 release date

[Christian Lenz]

Yeah they started and then they cancled it. The go plugins, are far away of 
usable. I talked to the devs, because you can see no source Code in the plugin 
Portal. One Project is at github now, the other one, I’m waiting for the Code. 
And there are Features missing to implement it as a plugin for NetBeans like 
the Options for indentation, you can’t do it. The Problem still exists for the 
TypeScript Editor: https://github.com/Everlaw/nbts/issues/81

Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10

Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 10:10
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro 
> wrote:
> > ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> > language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> > what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>
> Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
> use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
> implementing that?



Someone has already been working for free on implementing that:

http://tunnelvisionlabs.com/products/demo/goworks

Here's another one:

http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62162/go-project

Here's another one:

http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/25606/go

And there's probably more, in various states of usefulness and stability.

Under Apache, what we'll be able to have is a central place where everyone
working on Go can work together. We've never had such a central neutral
place before, it's always been various people working on their own outside
Sun or Oracle and never without an organized structure for interacting and
co-operating with each other.

There's very few technologies and languages for which some kind of support
doesn't already exist for NetBeans over the years -- all created for free
by enthusiastic supporters of one technology or another. In answer to your
question -- people work for free to create tooling for a technology, such
as Go, in order to promote that technology, for whatever reason.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> ➢ Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re
> Apache?
> ➢ I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where
> would
> ➢ you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the Information
> ➢ about NetBeans being at Apache?
>
> Where are the Information about it on netbeans.org? Only when you click
> on community. On the main page it says it is Oracle no Apache info at all.
> Maybe a link to the new one and to more info, right on the main page, which
> should be more attractive, should be there.
>


OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe we
should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different place
to point to? Which page would be most effective?



>
> >  What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> > others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> > play in this project.
>
> I will add more and more tickets from time to time. The thing is, when
> NetBeans was under Oracle and Java EE too, NB Should be the best IDE for
> Java at all. But all the handy, little Features that intelliJ has for Java
> developers and for all others, are so great and amazing, I created a lot of
> tickets where I mentioned those IDEs and I will do more. Only to let you
> know that.
>
>
I don't think it's a question of adding more and more tickets.

Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature, something
small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first. Then, at
some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send a
pull request for others to review.

This more interactive way of discussing missing features might work better
than filing an issue and hoping someone will look at it.

If you find this idea useful, we could experiment with one small feature or
aspect of usability, e.g., someone starts a thread with a tag
[ENHANCEMENT-REQUEST] and explains clearly some small aspect of NetBeans
that is simply annoying and shouldn't be hard to fix. Then we discuss that
as a community and you'll probably find that once that has been clearly
discussed and we all know what we're talking about, that someone will step
forward to fix it.

Gj

[GitHub] incubator-netbeans pull request #139: [NETBEANS-54] Module Review ide.kit

[vieiro]

GitHub user vieiro opened a pull request:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/139

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review ide.kit

  - No external binaries.
  - Added Apache license to different xml/properties files and 
release/VERSION.txt.
  - Added rat exclusion list for all qa-functional/**/*.txt files.
  - Remaining files to be handled centrally.
  - No other licensing issues found.

You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

$ git pull https://github.com/vieiro/incubator-netbeans 
netbeans-54-module-review-ide.kit

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/139.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

This closes #139


commit 13004772593a16a69f861b6b7f049137e6ee2ffa
Author: Antonio Vieiro 
Date:   2017-10-13T08:13:17Z

[NETBEANS-54] Module Review ide.kit

  - No external binaries.
  - Added Apache license to different xml/properties files and 
release/VERSION.txt.
  - Added rat exclusion list for all qa-functional/**/*.txt files.
  - Remaining files to be handled centrally.
  - No other licensing issues found.




---

AW: NetBeans 9 release date

[Christian Lenz]

➢ Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
➢ I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
➢ you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the Information
➢ about NetBeans being at Apache?

Where are the Information about it on netbeans.org? Only when you click on 
community. On the main page it says it is Oracle no Apache info at all. Maybe a 
link to the new one and to more info, right on the main page, which should be 
more attractive, should be there.

>  What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> play in this project.

I will add more and more tickets from time to time. The thing is, when NetBeans 
was under Oracle and Java EE too, NB Should be the best IDE for Java at all. 
But all the handy, little Features that intelliJ has for Java developers and 
for all others, are so great and amazing, I created a lot of tickets where I 
mentioned those IDEs and I will do more. Only to let you know that.



Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10

Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 10:00
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Peter Steele  wrote:

> - netbeans.org is totally void of any Apache information, if you want more
> people involved then communication should be updated there.
>

Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the information
about NetBeans being at Apache?



> - some sort of date or regularly updated checklist to show what needs to be
> done before the next release is sorely being missed
>


Here it is:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/List+of+Modules+to+Review



> - I am a big netbeans fan but moved over to the intellij community edition
> because I didn't see oracle really investing much in making netbeans
> "modern".


What do you mean by that? Modern in terms of user interface? Modern in
terms of features -- which features are needed to making NetBeans modern?



> I'd love to move back because I think as a community driven
> project it can bridge the difference in feature gaps that exist. I far
> prefer core netbeans as an ide to intellij or eclipse but it's the many
> small things that are missing that makes it hard to beat those other
> platforms in terms of every day usability.
>

What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
play in this project.

Thanks,

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro 
> wrote:
> > ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> > language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> > what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>
> Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
> use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
> implementing that?



Someone has already been working for free on implementing that:

http://tunnelvisionlabs.com/products/demo/goworks

Here's another one:

http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62162/go-project

Here's another one:

http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/25606/go

And there's probably more, in various states of usefulness and stability.

Under Apache, what we'll be able to have is a central place where everyone
working on Go can work together. We've never had such a central neutral
place before, it's always been various people working on their own outside
Sun or Oracle and never without an organized structure for interacting and
co-operating with each other.

There's very few technologies and languages for which some kind of support
doesn't already exist for NetBeans over the years -- all created for free
by enthusiastic supporters of one technology or another. In answer to your
question -- people work for free to create tooling for a technology, such
as Go, in order to promote that technology, for whatever reason.

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:15 AM, Javier Ortiz 
wrote:

>
> If NetBeans was unique there would be more help since there were no other
> options. But if your time is limited and not available or buggy on NetBeans
> you just look around and there are other options.
>
> Personally the open source project I got deeply evolved were unique in one
> way or another or I created myself due to the same reason. That's why I
> believe we don't see the other millions of users.


For all these use cases, NetBeans is completely unique and the developers
working on these projects are going to be -- and are already -- a key
demographic that will be driving NetBeans forward:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/on+top+of+NetBeans

Thanks,

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Peter Steele  wrote:

> - netbeans.org is totally void of any Apache information, if you want more
> people involved then communication should be updated there.
>

Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the information
about NetBeans being at Apache?



> - some sort of date or regularly updated checklist to show what needs to be
> done before the next release is sorely being missed
>


Here it is:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/List+of+Modules+to+Review



> - I am a big netbeans fan but moved over to the intellij community edition
> because I didn't see oracle really investing much in making netbeans
> "modern".


What do you mean by that? Modern in terms of user interface? Modern in
terms of features -- which features are needed to making NetBeans modern?



> I'd love to move back because I think as a community driven
> project it can bridge the difference in feature gaps that exist. I far
> prefer core netbeans as an ide to intellij or eclipse but it's the many
> small things that are missing that makes it hard to beat those other
> platforms in terms of every day usability.
>

What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
play in this project.

Thanks,

Gj

Re: NetBeans 9 release date

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro  wrote:
> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> what to do next, what they need, what they want...

Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
implementing that?

If you're a consultant (I used to) it's not really "for free" as that
work is also your marketing and might lead to you getting gigs because
you know the thing inside out. That can work well for programming
tools where expert users can quickly become active contributors.
People can also contribute as a great way to learn new things, of
course.

However I think NetBeans is more an end-user tool. I use it myself but
don't really care how it's built, and learning that would not help me
progress much in my careeer where I'm doing other things - with
similar technologies but other things.

What I'm trying to say is that it's harder for "end user tools" than
for "programming libraries and tools" to find active contributors
willing to work "for free" to improve the product (all quoted things
mean "ok not really but you see what I mean"). And I think NetBeans is
closer to an end user tool than programming libraries and tools.

So it might be worth experimenting with other models than the usual
"hey guys can you do this please" one, for a tool such as NetBeans.
The ASF itself does not fund developers, but independent crowdfunding
campaigns are possible, see
https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html for an
example that I think worked.

-Bertrand