Re: Concerns about the AOO community
On 21/10/14 18:00, Mateusz Zasuwik wrote: For instance, here: In other words, for some reason, development of OpenOffice has all but stalled, while LibreOffice remains an active project. Much of OpenOffice's recent decline may be due to IBM's withdrawal from the project. OpenOffice 4.1.1. An anonymous informant alleges -- and web searches appear to confirm -- that IBM did nothing to publicize OpenOffice 4.1.1 when it was released on August 21, and that, since then, IBM developers have disappeared from the OpenOffice mailing lists. well I see still IBM developers here on the list frequently but of course less. It is simply because we do less but it does not mean anything else. But the question is of course more why does it matter. If we do to much people say we control the project,if do to less people say OpenOffice is dead. Really strange and people should think about Apache and how Apache works. It is potentially a harder time for OpenOffice if we do less but it is up to the community to keep the project alive together with us. Nobody should rely on our resources and expect that we will do it. OpenOffice is and remains a powerful brand even if the projects runs slower. Important is the quality and if it solves the daily tasks of our users. Juergen http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/LibreOffice-OpenOffice-and-rumors-of-unification So if everything is ok, can someone reveal list of planned features for AOO 5.0 and answer for my other questions? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Reporting broken download link
When trying to install latest version 4.1.1. i am prompted to close previous version 3.4.1. I have uninstalled that version but install keeps stopping with same request, hence it is stuck in a loop. Please help!! Mick Hagger
Re: Improved OOXML support?
On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 1:03 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: From: BRM [mailto:bm_witn...@yahoo.com.INVALID] Unfortunately that will always be the state of OOXML integration for anyone other than Microsoft since OOXML is a poorly defined standard that relies on many binary extensions that are not published. Kind of like the old DOC/XLS/PPT/MDB formats that were (in many ways) memory dumps of their respective applications - only for OOXML they're wrapped by XML. Until Microsoft publishes a real standard no one will ever be able to have true inter-operability. Of course, this kind of hurts Microsoft too since they basically have the same problems with OOXML that they had with the old formats between versions of their own Office products; a good standard would make that a non-issue. Sorry, but in this case MS is not to blame. The OOXML format is published as ISO standard. Yes it is a published ISO standard, but one that relies on many unpublished extensions.Yes, AOO can implement something that implements the one-off ISO standard (there have been no updates AFAIK);however, it will always be a chasing a moving, undocumented target for all those extensions which MS Office uses extensively. We could discuss problems of this ISO standard in detail, but this is not necessary because the fact that LibreOffice has implemented appropriate filters, proves that it is not a problem of the OOXML standard. No, just that someone has kept it up to some degree and spent time figuring out a set of those extensions that seems common enough.LO doesn't have perfect OOXML compatibility with MS Office either; just better than AOO right now. And, as I noted, even MS Office has problems with OOXML compatibility between versions of itself.Not because of the standard but because of all the unpublished extensions to the standard; extensions which are likely just binary dumps of memory again. I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. Probably because it is not an easy task, too much of a moving target, and more.Yes, you can figure out a series of files, but there will always be something that is not completely compatible.While there may be a published XML-based Base for the OOXML file formats, there are still many parts that are not. And yes, I'll applaud anyone that takes it on. Just saying, don't expect perfection, and don't expect to not to have to continuously be working on it because it is a continously moving target. And that is the juxt of my point in this whole thread. $0.02 Ben
RE: Improved OOXML support?
orcnotes inline -Original Message- From: BRM [mailto:bm_witn...@yahoo.com.INVALID] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 08:12 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Improved OOXML support? On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 1:03 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: From: BRM [mailto:bm_witn...@yahoo.com.INVALID] Unfortunately that will always be the state of OOXML integration for anyone other than Microsoft since OOXML is a poorly defined standard that relies on many binary extensions that are not published. Kind of like the old DOC/XLS/PPT/MDB formats that were (in many ways) memory dumps of their respective applications - only for OOXML they're wrapped by XML. Until Microsoft publishes a real standard no one will ever be able to have true inter-operability. Of course, this kind of hurts Microsoft too since they basically have the same problems with OOXML that they had with the old formats between versions of their own Office products; a good standard would make that a non-issue. Sorry, but in this case MS is not to blame. The OOXML format is published as ISO standard. Yes it is a published ISO standard, but one that relies on many unpublished extensions.Yes, AOO can implement something that implements the one-off ISO standard (there have been no updates AFAIK);however, it will always be a chasing a moving, undocumented target for all those extensions which MS Office uses extensively. orcnote OOXML is in its 4th edition (December 2012) and I believe another is on its way. It is under active maintenance at the ISO level, and you can always get the specs most easily from ECMA. See http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm. I'm not so sure about unpublished extensions. There is a mechanism provided in the OOXML Standard for introducing extensions and my impression is that Microsoft is careful to use the mechanism and specify what theirs are, just as they also publish their profile for what they support in ODF. /orcnote We could discuss problems of this ISO standard in detail, but this is not necessary because the fact that LibreOffice has implemented appropriate filters, proves that it is not a problem of the OOXML standard. No, just that someone has kept it up to some degree and spent time figuring out a set of those extensions that seems common enough.LO doesn't have perfect OOXML compatibility with MS Office either; just better than AOO right now. And, as I noted, even MS Office has problems with OOXML compatibility between versions of itself.Not because of the standard but because of all the unpublished extensions to the standard; extensions which are likely just binary dumps of memory again. I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. Probably because it is not an easy task, too much of a moving target, and more.Yes, you can figure out a series of files, but there will always be something that is not completely compatible.While there may be a published XML-based Base for the OOXML file formats, there are still many parts that are not. And yes, I'll applaud anyone that takes it on. Just saying, don't expect perfection, and don't expect to not to have to continuously be working on it because it is a continously moving target. And that is the juxt of my point in this whole thread. orcnote I suspect that a bigger detriment to someone building commercial filters for AOO OOXML support is finding a meaningful business model, since these presumably have to be made freely available and even open-source. It might be easier for developers who are immersed in the Microsoft (Office) technology to build better ODF conversions for Microsoft Office than start on the AOO side. That might be a superior point of leverage. I suspect there is still a business model problem since any enterprise or institution that finds this very important could presumably use their leverage with Microsoft directly to have better ODF support. /orcnote $0.02 Ben - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Reporting broken download link
Am 10/22/2014 11:46 AM, schrieb mick hagger: When trying to install latest version 4.1.1. i am prompted to close previous version 3.4.1. I have uninstalled that version but install keeps stopping with same request, hence it is stuck in a loop. as you don't report a problem with the download but with installation, please go to the user forums to get help: https://forum.openoffice.org/ Thanks Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
2014-10-22 9:56 GMT+02:00 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com: On 21/10/14 18:00, Mateusz Zasuwik wrote: For instance, here: In other words, for some reason, development of OpenOffice has all but stalled, while LibreOffice remains an active project. Much of OpenOffice's recent decline may be due to IBM's withdrawal from the project. OpenOffice 4.1.1. An anonymous informant alleges -- and web searches appear to confirm -- that IBM did nothing to publicize OpenOffice 4.1.1 when it was released on August 21, and that, since then, IBM developers have disappeared from the OpenOffice mailing lists. well I see still IBM developers here on the list frequently but of course less. It is simply because we do less but it does not mean anything else. But the question is of course more why does it matter. If we do to much people say we control the project,if do to less people say OpenOffice is dead. Really strange and people should think about Apache and how Apache works. It is potentially a harder time for OpenOffice if we do less but it is up to the community to keep the project alive together with us. Nobody should rely on our resources and expect that we will do it. OpenOffice is and remains a powerful brand even if the projects runs slower. Important is the quality and if it solves the daily tasks of our users. Hey Juergen. Thank you for answer. So, for me, the most important question is why IBM minimize its involvement?. The part about controlling project is irrelevant for me, because every project has its own carriage horse. For OO it was Sun/Oracle/IBM, for LibreOffice it's SUSE, Collabora, Lanedo. The role of community is hype for me. I am just a little surprised with speed of AOO development, especially when we recall from memory IBM's announcements about Lotus Symphony's end of life and when we recall their promises about release IBM OpenOffice Edition. I thought this company will do their best to renew code, interface and it will undertake tries to monetize this project what should let OpenOffice thrive. Lotus contained many nice solutions i.g. tabs system and now everything seems to be going down. People (users) are worrying about OpenOffice status so I would like to just rectify some opinions floating around. Many says that IBM alone stop believing in OpenOffice. You confirm that IBM is doing less. Wiki is not updated for a long time. So this symptoms are showing... what exactly?
New Member
Hi Together, I am Driss from Tunisia. I am living in Germany where I work as electrical engineer. I am interested in Programming, software testing, project management and more... :) I want to help on the project openoffice. do not hesitate to contact me :) Regards Driss
color names in Math
Hi all, I'm going to work on https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118191. ODF1.2 uses MathML and that allows font colors to be defined by html-color-names. The corresponding rgb-values are defined in HTML. The problems are: Math writes its red as red in mml and renders it as rgb 80 00 00. But red in HTML is defined as FF 00 00. The dark variant is named maroon. Math writes its blue as blue in mml and renders it as rgb 00 00 80. But blue in HTML is defined as rgb 00 00 FF. The dark variant is named navy. Math writes its cyan as aqua in mml and renders it as rgb 00 80 80. But aqua in HTML is defined as rgb 00 FF FF. The dark variant is named teal. A color name cyan does not exist as html-color-name. Math writes its magenta as fuchsia in mml and renders it as rbg 80 00 80. But fuchsia in HTML is defined as rgb FF 00 FF. The dark variant is named purple. A color name magenta does not exist as html-color-name. So in each case the rendering is different from the value in the file. If you get a foreign document or a pur MathML formula for import, which have no annotation containing the Starmath expression, then it is rendered wrongly. I see two options in general (a) change rendering to the rgb-values of the html-color-names contained in the file. (b) change file export to write html-color-names which meet the rendering. In addition, as more colors in Math is a very old wish, I want to add the missing html-color-name colors in this fix, so that it is possible to use 16 colors instead of only 8 colors now. That would not solve https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=5156 totally but would help. For #rgb and ##rrggbb colors I would have to learn more about the code to solve it. Suggestions, ideas, concerns? Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
2014-10-22 20:35 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com: 2014-10-22 9:56 GMT+02:00 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com: On 21/10/14 18:00, Mateusz Zasuwik wrote: For instance, here: In other words, for some reason, development of OpenOffice has all but stalled, while LibreOffice remains an active project. Much of OpenOffice's recent decline may be due to IBM's withdrawal from the project. OpenOffice 4.1.1. An anonymous informant alleges -- and web searches appear to confirm -- that IBM did nothing to publicize OpenOffice 4.1.1 when it was released on August 21, and that, since then, IBM developers have disappeared from the OpenOffice mailing lists. well I see still IBM developers here on the list frequently but of course less. It is simply because we do less but it does not mean anything else. But the question is of course more why does it matter. If we do to much people say we control the project,if do to less people say OpenOffice is dead. Really strange and people should think about Apache and how Apache works. It is potentially a harder time for OpenOffice if we do less but it is up to the community to keep the project alive together with us. Nobody should rely on our resources and expect that we will do it. OpenOffice is and remains a powerful brand even if the projects runs slower. Important is the quality and if it solves the daily tasks of our users. Hey Juergen. Thank you for answer. So, for me, the most important question is why IBM minimize its involvement?. The part about controlling project is irrelevant for me, because every project has its own carriage horse. For OO it was Sun/Oracle/IBM, for LibreOffice it's SUSE, Collabora, Lanedo. The role of community is hype for me. I am just a little surprised with speed of AOO development, especially when we recall from memory IBM's announcements about Lotus Symphony's end of life and when we recall their promises about release IBM OpenOffice Edition. I thought this company will do their best to renew code, interface and it will undertake tries to monetize this project what should let OpenOffice thrive. Lotus contained many nice solutions i.g. tabs system and now everything seems to be going down. People (users) are worrying about OpenOffice status so I would like to just rectify some opinions floating around. Many says that IBM alone stop believing in OpenOffice. You confirm that IBM is doing less. Wiki is not updated for a long time. So this symptoms are showing... what exactly? If people are worried they just need to start contributing to AOO, for example translating http://www.openoffice.org/pl/. Just drop an email to l10n and the AOO community will provide tools and instructions to let you all become active stakeholders. *Ask* not, what AOO can do for you. *Ask* what, you can do for AOO. We value people by their actions, everyone is pretty much welcome in a community where meritocracy and diversity are the only way forward. Roberto
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
On 21/10/2014 Mateusz Zasuwik wrote: ...Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/LibreOffice-OpenOffice-and-rumors-of-unification In short, your links are not very significant. I assume you are doing it in good faith, but the above is not well-sourced (and the disappeared developers all reappeared since the day that article was written), Github (which is not the official repository: see the website for the official one) and Ohloh misrepresent the OpenOffice contributions for a number of reasons that you can find in the archives and placeholder wiki pages are, well, placeholders (the 5.0 page you mention was created back in May without a special meaning or plan). The role of community is hype for me. It isn't to me. Like many others, I help OpenOffice in my (vanishing... so don't expect me to engage in a long e-mail conversations with you or anyone!) spare time and I strongly believe that a well-functioning community is vital. I believe that the suggestion Roberto just gave is very good: help us bring the Polish site up-to-date, it is an excellent way to experience our community! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Improved OOXML support?
I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. Probably because it is not an easy task, too much of a moving target, and more.Yes, you can figure out a series of files, but there will always be something that is not completely compatible. This is absolutely not a problem, the compatibility already provides the LibreOffice would be enough (for now). I suspect that a bigger detriment to someone building commercial filters for AOO OOXML support is finding a meaningful business model, Commercial filters are not the issue, but that someone would pay the filter development ready, but no company finds that implements this, at least by the companies that are listed here: http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Improved OOXML support?
With regard to the quotation from me, yes, it is possible to find funding for improvements. There have been requests for bids from organization such as the OSB Alliance. It is difficult to know whether they have found someone to bid on the work they want though, at an affordable price. The improved OOXML support was funded by an organization. You've seen Jürgen Schmidt's response on the difficulty there has been integrating that code into Apache OpenOffice. I don't doubt his appraisal. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 12:54 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: Re: Improved OOXML support? I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. Probably because it is not an easy task, too much of a moving target, and more.Yes, you can figure out a series of files, but there will always be something that is not completely compatible. This is absolutely not a problem, the compatibility already provides the LibreOffice would be enough (for now). I suspect that a bigger detriment to someone building commercial filters for AOO OOXML support is finding a meaningful business model, Commercial filters are not the issue, but that someone would pay the filter development ready, but no company finds that implements this, at least by the companies that are listed here: http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: procedure for interaction with localization volunteers?
[top posting} Please ignore this message. I think I've determined the process here. On 10/20/2014 04:23 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: What is our process for localization of new items to either the ui or helpcontent? More specific: -- how do these items get ported to Pootle -- are translation volunteers notified of these changes There's nothing specific about this on the localization web page -- https://www.openoffice.org/l10n/ Mostly the reason I'm asking is if notification to l...@openoffice.apache.org is in order when these kinds of changes are made. -- - MzK Success breeds complacency. Complacency breeds failure. Only the paranoid survive. -- Andy Grove, Intel Co-founder - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
crash reporter -- can someone supply commit information on this?
I know the crash reporter was disabled sometime before March, 2012. But can someone provide the commit message on this? And, if it was part of wither the 3.4.1 offering or 4.0, I would like to add this removal to the release notes as we continue to get questions about it. Unfortunately, information about this was just recently removed from the Help files, so miscommunication *for a while*. -- - MzK Success breeds complacency. Complacency breeds failure. Only the paranoid survive. -- Andy Grove, Intel Co-founder - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
On 10/22/2014 12:18 PM, Roberto Galoppini wrote: 2014-10-22 20:35 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com: 2014-10-22 9:56 GMT+02:00 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com: On 21/10/14 18:00, Mateusz Zasuwik wrote: For instance, here: In other words, for some reason, development of OpenOffice has all but stalled, while LibreOffice remains an active project. Much of OpenOffice's recent decline may be due to IBM's withdrawal from the project. OpenOffice 4.1.1. An anonymous informant alleges -- and web searches appear to confirm -- that IBM did nothing to publicize OpenOffice 4.1.1 when it was released on August 21, and that, since then, IBM developers have disappeared from the OpenOffice mailing lists. well I see still IBM developers here on the list frequently but of course less. It is simply because we do less but it does not mean anything else. But the question is of course more why does it matter. If we do to much people say we control the project,if do to less people say OpenOffice is dead. Really strange and people should think about Apache and how Apache works. It is potentially a harder time for OpenOffice if we do less but it is up to the community to keep the project alive together with us. Nobody should rely on our resources and expect that we will do it. OpenOffice is and remains a powerful brand even if the projects runs slower. Important is the quality and if it solves the daily tasks of our users. Hey Juergen. Thank you for answer. So, for me, the most important question is why IBM minimize its involvement?. The part about controlling project is irrelevant for me, because every project has its own carriage horse. For OO it was Sun/Oracle/IBM, for LibreOffice it's SUSE, Collabora, Lanedo. The role of community is hype for me. I am just a little surprised with speed of AOO development, especially when we recall from memory IBM's announcements about Lotus Symphony's end of life and when we recall their promises about release IBM OpenOffice Edition. I thought this company will do their best to renew code, interface and it will undertake tries to monetize this project what should let OpenOffice thrive. Lotus contained many nice solutions i.g. tabs system and now everything seems to be going down. People (users) are worrying about OpenOffice status so I would like to just rectify some opinions floating around. Many says that IBM alone stop believing in OpenOffice. You confirm that IBM is doing less. Wiki is not updated for a long time. So this symptoms are showing... what exactly? If people are worried they just need to start contributing to AOO, for example translating http://www.openoffice.org/pl/. Just drop an email to l10n and the AOO community will provide tools and instructions to let you all become active stakeholders. *Ask* not, what AOO can do for you. *Ask* what, you can do for AOO. EXACTLY! :) Thanks for pointing this out. We value people by their actions, everyone is pretty much welcome in a community where meritocracy and diversity are the only way forward. Roberto -- - MzK Success breeds complacency. Complacency breeds failure. Only the paranoid survive. -- Andy Grove, Intel Co-founder - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Problems logging into cwiki with seamonkey browser
I just tried to log in to my cwiki account for the first time since I switched to seamonkey from Firefox as my default browser and I am unable to log in. I still have Firefox installed and am able to log in with it. Is anyone else using seamonkey and having trouble accessing the cwiki? Versions are seamonkey 2.30 and Firefox 33.0 Regards Keith signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Improved OOXML support?
Am 22.10.2014 um 07:03 schrieb Jörg Schmidt: I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. If I were in need of an OOXML suite, I would pay for the real one. The other one is LibreOffice. Nobody needs a third one. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Improved OOXML support?
From: Andreas Säger [mailto:saege...@t-online.de] I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. If I were in need of an OOXML suite, I would pay for the real one. The other one is LibreOffice. Nobody needs a third one. I think it's good that we live in a free society and customers have the right to see things differently. Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Improved OOXML support?
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:13 PM To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Improved OOXML support? With regard to the quotation from me, yes, it is possible to find funding for improvements. There have been requests for bids from organization such as the OSB Alliance. It is difficult to know whether they have found someone to bid on the work they want though, at an affordable price. The improved OOXML support was funded by an organization. You've seen Jürgen Schmidt's response on the difficulty there has been integrating that code into Apache OpenOffice. I don't doubt his appraisal. Furthermore Jürgen spoke of it also: We decided for us (some developer) that we don't spend further time on this. and this does not relate to technical problems, but it describes the developers do not have time. Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Übersetzung des englischen Wortes 'Options'
Am 10/22/2014 07:06 AM, schrieb Josef Latt: Hi, scheint ja niemanden zu interessieren. ich dachte die Änderung ist schon längst gemacht. ;-) Marcus Am 18.10.2014 um 09:07 schrieb Josef Latt: Am 16.10.2014 um 08:56 schrieb Josef Latt: Hi, bezugnehmend auf den Thread Unterschiedliche Übersetzungen zur Symbolleiste Options ist festzustellen, dass 'Options' mit Masse als 'Optionen' und teilweise mit 'Einstellungen' übersetzt wurde. Oft werden in zusammenhängenden Bereichen beide Varianten benutzt. Dies sollte IMHO vereinheitlicht werden. Ich plädiere dafür, 'Options' durchgehend mit 'Optionen' zu übersetzen, und 'Einstellungen' nur für 'settings' zu verwenden. Weil weniger aufwändig. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-de-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-de-h...@openoffice.apache.org
