PMC Chair
One of the resolutions passed at the last board meeting was: "Change the Apache OpenOffice Project Chair (Jim Jagielski, VP)" Jim, I don't know whether congratulation or commiseration is more appropriate, so you get whichever you prefer from me. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: volunteer activity tracking
On 21.11.2019 14:42, Jörg Schmidt wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Branko Čibej [mailto:br...@apache.org] >> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 2:16 PM >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >> Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking > >> I have not heard of a single instance in the history of the ASF where >> merit was bought -- either through donations or through salaried >> employees. I'm sure there have been attempts, we all know >> what nonsense >> "smart" managers are capable of coming up with. > And I didn't(!!!) say anyone intended to buy "merit". I was talking about > legally acquired merit. I'm not sure what you mean by "legally acquired merit." > Or are members of the PMC not allowed to have different opinions when voting? They surely are, but a healthy community will reach a consensus through discussion, not by majority fiat through a vote. This is actually a crucial point and what the ASF is all about: and, if you find yourself making decisions by voting, rather than the vote being just a way to formally confirm prior consensus, then something has gone very wrong. Different opinions /should/ be ironed out through discussion. If they're not, eventually the community will break up. If the community finds itself unable to form consensus about some topic, it's better to postpone any decision, or explore alternatives. > And if they may, may they not have different opinions in the future than at > the time when they became a PMC member? Of course they may. That's a normal consequence of learning, after all. -- Brane - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: volunteer activity tracking
Hello, Am 21.11.19 um 14:42 schrieb Jörg Schmidt: > Or are members of the PMC not allowed to have different opinions when voting? > And if they may, may they not have different opinions in the future than at > the time when they became a PMC member? > Normally we discuss to get a consensus. Crucial votes are out-of-favour. This is the only way to keep the community together. Kind regards Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: volunteer activity tracking
> -Original Message- > From: Branko Čibej [mailto:br...@apache.org] > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 2:16 PM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking > I have not heard of a single instance in the history of the ASF where > merit was bought -- either through donations or through salaried > employees. I'm sure there have been attempts, we all know > what nonsense > "smart" managers are capable of coming up with. And I didn't(!!!) say anyone intended to buy "merit". I was talking about legally acquired merit. Or are members of the PMC not allowed to have different opinions when voting? And if they may, may they not have different opinions in the future than at the time when they became a PMC member? greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: volunteer activity tracking
On 21.11.2019 13:35, Jörg Schmidt wrote: > Hello, > >> -Original Message- >> From: Hagar Delest [mailto:delest.ha...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 7:29 PM >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >> Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking >> >> Le 20/11/2019 à 09:33, Jörg Schmidt a écrit : >>> for example: At first glance, activity is activity, but I >> think there >>> is a certain difference between the activity of people who >> only work >>> in the project because they are paid for it by companies and people >>> who work in the project out of their own interest. >> I don't understand the point. If he someone is paid to work on the >> project, at least he produces something. Why would it be >> considered less >> than the energy put by someone contributing of his own? What >> if the guy >> is paid AND he likes what he does? > My opinion is that "merit" is something specific other than "important" (Your > wording was: "Why would it be considered less..."). "merit" is something very > personal. > > For me, this is personal because each of us, with skill, effort and perhaps > also some luck, can earn and donate any amount of money. On the other hand > the day has only 24 hours for each of us and nobody can increase this time. > > And please, don't get me wrong: > the support by companies or other donors, I don't think is unimportant or of > less value in the core, but "merit" is something which for me also contains a > pinch of what one could call "honor". (Perhaps not the best choice of words, > but hopefully understandable) I have not heard of a single instance in the history of the ASF where merit was bought -- either through donations or through salaried employees. I'm sure there have been attempts, we all know what nonsense "smart" managers are capable of coming up with. If you have evidence that specific people have a secret agenda to undermine or otherwise steer this project in ways that are not in the best interests of the users, then by all means bring it up, either here, or on the private@ list, or to the Board. Open discussion is definitely encouraged at the ASF. But please be careful if you do: saying "I have a feeling" is not evidence. -- Brane - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: volunteer activity tracking
Hello, > -Original Message- > From: Hagar Delest [mailto:delest.ha...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 7:29 PM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking > > Le 20/11/2019 à 09:33, Jörg Schmidt a écrit : > > for example: At first glance, activity is activity, but I > think there > > is a certain difference between the activity of people who > only work > > in the project because they are paid for it by companies and people > > who work in the project out of their own interest. > I don't understand the point. If he someone is paid to work on the > project, at least he produces something. Why would it be > considered less > than the energy put by someone contributing of his own? What > if the guy > is paid AND he likes what he does? My opinion is that "merit" is something specific other than "important" (Your wording was: "Why would it be considered less..."). "merit" is something very personal. For me, this is personal because each of us, with skill, effort and perhaps also some luck, can earn and donate any amount of money. On the other hand the day has only 24 hours for each of us and nobody can increase this time. And please, don't get me wrong: the support by companies or other donors, I don't think is unimportant or of less value in the core, but "merit" is something which for me also contains a pinch of what one could call "honor". (Perhaps not the best choice of words, but hopefully understandable) > If there was any 3rd party influence, that would mean that at least > someone is trying to steer the project with some agenda. According to > the development level of the project, I'm not sure we should > be afraid > about that, or should we? The "development level of the project" is not a criterion for this. greetings, Jörg > > If there was any 3rd party influence, that would mean that at least > someone is trying to steer the project with some agenda. According to > the development level of the project, I'm not sure we should > be afraid > about that, or should we? > > Let's be realistic and work on the problems instead of preventing > hypothetical wrong use of the instances. > > Hagar (EN Forum moderator) > Not a developer, just admiring those remaining on the project. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: volunteer activity tracking (was: Ariel is back in our PMC and developer circle)
Hello, > -Original Message- > From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org] > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 8:32 AM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking (was: Ariel is back > in our PMC and developer circle) > > hi everyone, > [...] I did not complain about the dominance of a company! I don't want to say anything more about the rest because I consider it pointless. I feel that an open discussion is not desired, I have to take note of that. These statements do not concern you Peter, but others. You, Peter, have tried to help me several times, my thanks for that. greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: volunteer activity tracking (was: Ariel is back in our PMC and developer circle)
> -Original Message- > From: Dave Fisher [mailto:w...@apache.org] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 4:51 PM > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking (was: Ariel is back > in our PMC and developer circle) > At the Foundation we expect that everyone working on a > project are doing so as individuals and any merit attained is > as an individual. [1] In the initial formation of a project > at The ASF the original PMC and Committers is often > determined in part by those entities who are bringing the > donation to the Foundation. Incubation is about helping > project communities to work in the “Apache Way”. [2] > OpenOffice.org’s proposal was unique in that the Initial > Committer list was made open for all those who were > interested. I signed up as interested as did some other > members of the Apache POI PMC (we were interested in MSFT > document compatibility). I took it upon myself to help with > Infrastructure like the websites, confluence wikis, and domain names. Absolutely clear for me and absolutely no problem for me! I had already made explicit reference to the ASF rules, and of course the usual procedures also belong to them for me. > > For me, and this may be my personal opinion, one must not > put good agreement above success - you have to find a balance > between both things. > > > >> The influence of enterprises were drastic in the > >> moment they stopped supporting us. > > > > Exactly, and why are no consequences drawn? The problem was > not that the company stopped its support, but that one > company was doing it at absolutely the wrong time and under > the wrong circumstances. > > When IBM withdrew support it did not mean that PMC Members > who were employed by IBM stopped contributing. They stopped > as individuals slowly over time. > > We had one PMC Chair who seriously started a discussion about > shutting down the project. Thank you for this (imho) very important info. Not good that the community was not informed about it, but this info was apparently only known internally. greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
