Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Kay Schenk]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Andrea Pescetti  >wrote:
>
> > On 19/04/2013 Rob Weir wrote:
> >
> >> Using a non-openoffice.org site is a non-issue.  We've gathered user
> >> opinions on Google Moderator and Facebook, without problems.  Other
> groups
> >> in the ASF have used Google Docs-based surveys.   No one has ever raised
> >> concerns about using 3rd party services for this.
> >>
> >
> > The difference here is that we shouldn't encourage the use of domains
> like
> > openofficesomething.com for our community initiatives. We have the right
> > to use *.openoffice.org, and we should just use it. Nothing else.
> >
> >
> Uh.  Interesting idea.  That's why I proposed that over a month ago:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/gpgvnbdxw2vyhiro
>
> But my preference was to figure out the technology a but more and move to
> the subdomain once we were ready for a broader survey.   I did not
> anticipate that after ignoring surveys for over a year that there would be
> such sudden impatience to do this.
>

Well I don't exactly see "sudden impatience" but we (perhaps that "we" is
you Rob) should wait with contacting infra until "we" are more comfortable
with LimeSurvey.  Like all services, it will require specs and ongoing
attention.

I think we should all be relatively happy with the attention the logo
survey has gotten, however.


> In any case, will you next deal with our OpenGrok and Test link instances,
> which are at Adfinis domains, and of course our downloads which are at
> sourceforge.org addresses?
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
> > --**--**-
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>



-- 

MzK

"There's no upside in screwing with things you can't explain."
-- Captain Roy Montgomery, "Castle"

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[janI]

On Apr 21, 2013 3:26 PM, "Andrea Pescetti"  wrote:
>
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> In any case, will you next deal with our OpenGrok and Test link
instances,
>> which are at Adfinis domains
>
>
> Why not? It would make sense to recognize them as important community
services and point opengrok.openoffice.org and testlink.openoffice.org to
them.
+1 it is no big issue to make. However I see a big difference, these links
will only be used by someone who develop/test AOO and not end-users. I
think it is fair to expect that volunteers/committers does not get confused.

@rob: Thx for completing the setup of survey.o.o

>
>
>> and of course our downloads which are at sourceforge.org addresses?
we could make download.openoffice.org but since we already have download
links I would not do that.
>
>
> All the relevant HTML pages are already under openoffice.org; only the
final bits are served from non-openoffice.org servers, but we are never
advertising non-openoffice.org links for downloads, so no issue here.

This is to me THE most important issue.we only advertise .openoffice.org.
There are enough other packages out there who play with words. The newest I
found was a package text "formerly openoffice" as if we are dead or taken
over.

rgds
jan i
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Andrea Pescetti]

Rob Weir wrote:

In any case, will you next deal with our OpenGrok and Test link instances,
which are at Adfinis domains


Why not? It would make sense to recognize them as important community 
services and point opengrok.openoffice.org and testlink.openoffice.org 
to them.



and of course our downloads which are at sourceforge.org addresses?


All the relevant HTML pages are already under openoffice.org; only the 
final bits are served from non-openoffice.org servers, but we are never 
advertising non-openoffice.org links for downloads, so no issue here.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> Would I be able to gain access to create this poll? Could you set me up
>> and
>> send me the details?
>>
>> I complete the test poll you sent out, there was a couple options shown
>> off
>> in that.  I'd have to see if it allows us to post an image right inside
>> the
>> survey so they don't need to turn to another tab.
>>
>>
> It can be done, though it is not a standard question type.  But for each
> question you can define the question itself in HTML, so that can include
>  tags.
>
> See:
> http://www.aptigence.com.au/home/archives/24-Advanced-Question-Creation-in-LimeSurvey-Using-Pictures.html
>
> So probably makes sense to first get all the logos resized to
> approximately the same dimensions.  Then we can build survey questions from
> that.
>
> I'd start with some opening demographic questions:
>
> 1) Country
>
> 2) Sex
>
> 3) Age
>
> 4) Are you currently an OpenOffice user?
>
> 4a) If so, for how many years
>
> (These questions can help us see if there are any important trends, e.g.,
> maybe logo preferences vary greatly depending on how long one has been an
> OpenOffice user, i,e., how exposed you are to current logo versus someone
> looking at it from perspective of a new user.   Also, having country can
> help see if there are any cultural issues that could detract from a given
> logo's suitability).
>
> Then we need to present the logos and get feedback.  There are several
> ways of doing it.
>
> A) Could show a grid of all of the images, side-by-side, clearly labeled,
> and then give a set of questions, e.g., like a 5-point scale:
>
>
> http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Question_type_-_Array_%285_point_choice%29
>
> or
>
> B) Show one image for each question, with a scoring mechanism like this:
>
> http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Question_type_-_5_point_choice
>
> In any case I'll send you access information.
>
>
You should have the access info now.  But note  the URL has changed.  It is
now http://survey.openoffice.org//admin/admin.php

I've started putting together a poll for the logos, per the above
thoughts.  Mainly need to add in the images now.

Regards,

-Rob


> -Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Sam
>> On Apr 17, 2013 8:08 PM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Kay Schenk 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Grignon <
>> > kevingrignon...@gmail.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hello All,
>> > > >
>> > > > Sorry, i haven't had cycles to work on this.
>> > > >
>> > > > Please consider these votes a selection of direction as final
>> > adjustments
>> > > > will need to be made to the graphics and text.
>> > > >
>> > > > It appears there is interest in a flat treatment. Other than that,
>> > > > palette, fonts and relation ship to app icons and other graphics is
>> > still
>> > > > open.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sorry to open a can of worms, but design is not linear, is not well
>> > > suited
>> > > > for polls. Rather, select a direction, say flat, then open a quick
>> > > > iteration to explore flat. Incremental decisions will allow us to
>> > refine.
>> > > > It is not all or nothing. Also, consider the synergy which is
>> possible
>> > by
>> > > > combining elements from different designs.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > I think the 5 or 6 (flat design) choices would be well-suited to a
>> poll.
>> > > Design is not linear as you point out, but a lot of time has already
>> been
>> > > spent on these proposals I would think.
>> > >
>> > > To me, there is no harm in a simple poll at this point.  I would think
>> > > predominant participation would be from existing OpenOffice users,
>> but I
>> > > could be wrong about this.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.   I
>> could
>> > make it a ranked preference poll, where we can sort all of the options.
>> > The survey can also have a box for comments.
>> >
>> > -Rob
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > > Kevin
>> > > >
>> > > > On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk 
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour <
>> samer...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
>> > > > >> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
>> > > > >> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific),
>> Vasilis
>> > > logo
>> > > > is
>> > > > >> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh
>> > > with/without
>> > > > >> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo
>> preference
>> > > (he
>> > > > did
>> > > > >> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not
>> > > deciding
>> > > > >> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
>> > > > >> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes fl

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Rob Weir]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

> On 19/04/2013 Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> Using a non-openoffice.org site is a non-issue.  We've gathered user
>> opinions on Google Moderator and Facebook, without problems.  Other groups
>> in the ASF have used Google Docs-based surveys.   No one has ever raised
>> concerns about using 3rd party services for this.
>>
>
> The difference here is that we shouldn't encourage the use of domains like
> openofficesomething.com for our community initiatives. We have the right
> to use *.openoffice.org, and we should just use it. Nothing else.
>
>
Uh.  Interesting idea.  That's why I proposed that over a month ago:

http://markmail.org/message/gpgvnbdxw2vyhiro

But my preference was to figure out the technology a but more and move to
the subdomain once we were ready for a broader survey.   I did not
anticipate that after ignoring surveys for over a year that there would be
such sudden impatience to do this.

In any case, will you next deal with our OpenGrok and Test link instances,
which are at Adfinis domains, and of course our downloads which are at
sourceforge.org addresses?

-Rob


> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Dave Fisher]

On Apr 19, 2013, at 5:37 AM, janI wrote:

> On 19 April 2013 13:48, Rob Weir  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:39 AM, janI  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19 April 2013 13:29, Rob Weir  wrote:
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, janI  wrote:
 
> On 18 April 2013 21:58, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
>> janI wrote:
>> 
>>> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> 
 If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
>> 
> Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
>>> 
>> 
>> Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect
>> an
>> official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on
 Infra
>> and just requires (lazy) consensus here.
>> 
>> Regards,
>>  Andrea.
>> 
>> 
> 23 hours, not bad for "month-long wrestling match with
> Infra to get something like this set up" !!!
> 
> The patch I made for dns is up and running. you can open "
> survey.openoffice.org". BUT something is not working in the other
>> end,
> reply comes from hostmonster, with a possibilities to buy cars erc.
> 
> 
 The DNS stuff had to happen first, and only then I can get it working
>> on
>>> my
 end.
 
 
 
> and yes I am a direct person, I like to tell people when they do
 something
> good and visa versa, but I dont like assuming ill behaivourbut
>> that
 is
> just my way, and I am sorry if my direct way offended someonebut
>>> look
> infra got their part done, without wrestling.
> 
> 
 I'm not assuming bad behavior.  I was just stating that I don't have
>> the
 time to guess whether this is an occasion where we get a fast response
>>> or a
 slow one.  The response time from Infra, IMHO, is entirely
>> unpredictable.
 I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no more complicated
>> and
 have waited almost a year.  It looks like we were fortunate this time.
 
>>> 
>>> or we have a better connection now :-) think about the other infra things
>>> that have happened lately (wiki, new translate, proxy setup), the ones I
>>> know off have all had resonable response time
>>> 
>>> I was not trying to shoot at you, I just have another impression of
>>> infra...but of course, I am not neutral.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Our need to pick a logo design is very predictable and the time line for
 that must go forward.  So I was happy to move forward with this either
 way.  If I can avoid a dependency on Infra that is a good thing, not a
>>> bad
 one.
 
>>> 
>>> completely correct, but if the price is to have a non openoffice.orgsite,
>>> it is at least a high price to pay.
>>> 
>>> Using a non-openoffice.org site is a non-issue.  We've gathered user
>>> opinions on Google Moderator and Facebook, without problems.  Other
>> groups
>>> in the ASF have used Google Docs-based surveys.   No one has ever raised
>>> concerns about using 3rd party services for this.  This is not a "high
>>> price to pay".
>>> 
>> 
>> In any case, my practice remains -- and I'm sure most in Infra would agree
>> with me here -- if you can do something without having a dependency on
>> Apache Infra it is a good thing.  Let them focus on things that only they
>> can do.  Self-service is a good thing.
>> 
> 
> No problem, everybody is entitled to have their opinion...I just try to
> help.
> 
> You  wrote earlier "I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no
> more complicated and
> have waited almost a year"
> 
> I had a look in jira to find the issue, to see if I could solve it, but I
> cannot find any open issues with you as requestor, and when I search for
> DNS there are no really old issues.
> 
> If you give me the jira number I will have a look at it, and maybe ask why
> it has waited so long.

Exactly. There are five unordered principles to dealing with infrastructure.

(1) Politeness.
(2) Patience.
(3) Persistence.
(4) Be Willing to Help. The more you help, the more you understand, the more 
you can help, ... several project committers have done this.
(5) Put the request in JIRA. Infra looks there when they have cycles.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> rgds
> Jan I.
> 
>> 
>> -Rob
>> 
>> 
 
 
> @rob: can you please have a look at your end, you need problaly to
>> add
>>> it
> as a vhost.
> 
> 
 Yes.
 
 
> I am not sure what the survey actually is, some kind of py/perl/js, I
>>> can
> get an idea, I can think about how we can move it to our own site.
> 
> 
 It is a PHP app, LimeSurvey.  Pre-reqs are listed here:
 
 
 
>>> 
>> http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Installation#1._Make_sure_you_can_use_LimeSurvey_on_your_website
 
>>> 
>>> thx for the link, I will have a look at it.
>>> 
>>> rgds
>>> jan I.
>>> 
 
 Regards,
 
 -Rob
 
 
> rgds
> Jan I.
> 
> 
>> 
 
>> 

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 19/04/2013 Rob Weir wrote:

Using a non-openoffice.org site is a non-issue.  We've gathered user
opinions on Google Moderator and Facebook, without problems.  Other groups
in the ASF have used Google Docs-based surveys.   No one has ever raised
concerns about using 3rd party services for this.


The difference here is that we shouldn't encourage the use of domains 
like openofficesomething.com for our community initiatives. We have the 
right to use *.openoffice.org, and we should just use it. Nothing else.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[janI]

On 19 April 2013 13:48, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:39 AM, janI  wrote:
>
> > On 19 April 2013 13:29, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, janI  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 18 April 2013 21:58, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > janI wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
> > > > >
> > > >  Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect
> an
> > > > > official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on
> > > Infra
> > > > > and just requires (lazy) consensus here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >   Andrea.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 23 hours, not bad for "month-long wrestling match with
> > > > Infra to get something like this set up" !!!
> > > >
> > > > The patch I made for dns is up and running. you can open "
> > > > survey.openoffice.org". BUT something is not working in the other
> end,
> > > > reply comes from hostmonster, with a possibilities to buy cars erc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > The DNS stuff had to happen first, and only then I can get it working
> on
> > my
> > > end.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > and yes I am a direct person, I like to tell people when they do
> > > something
> > > > good and visa versa, but I dont like assuming ill behaivourbut
> that
> > > is
> > > > just my way, and I am sorry if my direct way offended someonebut
> > look
> > > > infra got their part done, without wrestling.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I'm not assuming bad behavior.  I was just stating that I don't have
> the
> > > time to guess whether this is an occasion where we get a fast response
> > or a
> > > slow one.  The response time from Infra, IMHO, is entirely
> unpredictable.
> > > I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no more complicated
> and
> > > have waited almost a year.  It looks like we were fortunate this time.
> > >
> >
> > or we have a better connection now :-) think about the other infra things
> > that have happened lately (wiki, new translate, proxy setup), the ones I
> > know off have all had resonable response time
> >
> > I was not trying to shoot at you, I just have another impression of
> > infra...but of course, I am not neutral.
> >
> >
> > Our need to pick a logo design is very predictable and the time line for
> > > that must go forward.  So I was happy to move forward with this either
> > > way.  If I can avoid a dependency on Infra that is a good thing, not a
> > bad
> > > one.
> > >
> >
> > completely correct, but if the price is to have a non openoffice.orgsite,
> > it is at least a high price to pay.
> >
> > Using a non-openoffice.org site is a non-issue.  We've gathered user
> > opinions on Google Moderator and Facebook, without problems.  Other
> groups
> > in the ASF have used Google Docs-based surveys.   No one has ever raised
> > concerns about using 3rd party services for this.  This is not a "high
> > price to pay".
> >
>
> In any case, my practice remains -- and I'm sure most in Infra would agree
> with me here -- if you can do something without having a dependency on
> Apache Infra it is a good thing.  Let them focus on things that only they
> can do.  Self-service is a good thing.
>

No problem, everybody is entitled to have their opinion...I just try to
help.

You  wrote earlier "I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no
more complicated and
have waited almost a year"

I had a look in jira to find the issue, to see if I could solve it, but I
cannot find any open issues with you as requestor, and when I search for
DNS there are no really old issues.

If you give me the jira number I will have a look at it, and maybe ask why
it has waited so long.

rgds
Jan I.

>
> -Rob
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > @rob: can you please have a look at your end, you need problaly to
> add
> > it
> > > > as a vhost.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I am not sure what the survey actually is, some kind of py/perl/js, I
> > can
> > > > get an idea, I can think about how we can move it to our own site.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > It is a PHP app, LimeSurvey.  Pre-reqs are listed here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Installation#1._Make_sure_you_can_use_LimeSurvey_on_your_website
> > >
> >
> > thx for the link, I will have a look at it.
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > > rgds
> > > > Jan I.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> --**--**-
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> > > > dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:39 AM, janI  wrote:

> On 19 April 2013 13:29, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, janI  wrote:
> >
> > > On 18 April 2013 21:58, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> > >
> > > > janI wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
> > > >
> > >  Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect an
> > > > official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on
> > Infra
> > > > and just requires (lazy) consensus here.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >   Andrea.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 23 hours, not bad for "month-long wrestling match with
> > > Infra to get something like this set up" !!!
> > >
> > > The patch I made for dns is up and running. you can open "
> > > survey.openoffice.org". BUT something is not working in the other end,
> > > reply comes from hostmonster, with a possibilities to buy cars erc.
> > >
> > >
> > The DNS stuff had to happen first, and only then I can get it working on
> my
> > end.
> >
> >
> >
> > > and yes I am a direct person, I like to tell people when they do
> > something
> > > good and visa versa, but I dont like assuming ill behaivourbut that
> > is
> > > just my way, and I am sorry if my direct way offended someonebut
> look
> > > infra got their part done, without wrestling.
> > >
> > >
> > I'm not assuming bad behavior.  I was just stating that I don't have the
> > time to guess whether this is an occasion where we get a fast response
> or a
> > slow one.  The response time from Infra, IMHO, is entirely unpredictable.
> > I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no more complicated and
> > have waited almost a year.  It looks like we were fortunate this time.
> >
>
> or we have a better connection now :-) think about the other infra things
> that have happened lately (wiki, new translate, proxy setup), the ones I
> know off have all had resonable response time
>
> I was not trying to shoot at you, I just have another impression of
> infra...but of course, I am not neutral.
>
>
> Our need to pick a logo design is very predictable and the time line for
> > that must go forward.  So I was happy to move forward with this either
> > way.  If I can avoid a dependency on Infra that is a good thing, not a
> bad
> > one.
> >
>
> completely correct, but if the price is to have a non openoffice.org site,
> it is at least a high price to pay.
>
> Using a non-openoffice.org site is a non-issue.  We've gathered user
> opinions on Google Moderator and Facebook, without problems.  Other groups
> in the ASF have used Google Docs-based surveys.   No one has ever raised
> concerns about using 3rd party services for this.  This is not a "high
> price to pay".
>

In any case, my practice remains -- and I'm sure most in Infra would agree
with me here -- if you can do something without having a dependency on
Apache Infra it is a good thing.  Let them focus on things that only they
can do.  Self-service is a good thing.

-Rob


> >
> >
> > > @rob: can you please have a look at your end, you need problaly to add
> it
> > > as a vhost.
> > >
> > >
> > Yes.
> >
> >
> > > I am not sure what the survey actually is, some kind of py/perl/js, I
> can
> > > get an idea, I can think about how we can move it to our own site.
> > >
> > >
> > It is a PHP app, LimeSurvey.  Pre-reqs are listed here:
> >
> >
> >
> http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Installation#1._Make_sure_you_can_use_LimeSurvey_on_your_website
> >
>
> thx for the link, I will have a look at it.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> > > rgds
> > > Jan I.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > --**--**-
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> > > dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[janI]

On 19 April 2013 13:29, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, janI  wrote:
>
> > On 18 April 2013 21:58, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> >
> > > janI wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
> > >
> >  Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect an
> > > official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on
> Infra
> > > and just requires (lazy) consensus here.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >   Andrea.
> > >
> > >
> > 23 hours, not bad for "month-long wrestling match with
> > Infra to get something like this set up" !!!
> >
> > The patch I made for dns is up and running. you can open "
> > survey.openoffice.org". BUT something is not working in the other end,
> > reply comes from hostmonster, with a possibilities to buy cars erc.
> >
> >
> The DNS stuff had to happen first, and only then I can get it working on my
> end.
>
>
>
> > and yes I am a direct person, I like to tell people when they do
> something
> > good and visa versa, but I dont like assuming ill behaivourbut that
> is
> > just my way, and I am sorry if my direct way offended someonebut look
> > infra got their part done, without wrestling.
> >
> >
> I'm not assuming bad behavior.  I was just stating that I don't have the
> time to guess whether this is an occasion where we get a fast response or a
> slow one.  The response time from Infra, IMHO, is entirely unpredictable.
> I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no more complicated and
> have waited almost a year.  It looks like we were fortunate this time.
>

or we have a better connection now :-) think about the other infra things
that have happened lately (wiki, new translate, proxy setup), the ones I
know off have all had resonable response time

I was not trying to shoot at you, I just have another impression of
infra...but of course, I am not neutral.


Our need to pick a logo design is very predictable and the time line for
> that must go forward.  So I was happy to move forward with this either
> way.  If I can avoid a dependency on Infra that is a good thing, not a bad
> one.
>

completely correct, but if the price is to have a non openoffice.org site,
it is at least a high price to pay.


>
>
> > @rob: can you please have a look at your end, you need problaly to add it
> > as a vhost.
> >
> >
> Yes.
>
>
> > I am not sure what the survey actually is, some kind of py/perl/js, I can
> > get an idea, I can think about how we can move it to our own site.
> >
> >
> It is a PHP app, LimeSurvey.  Pre-reqs are listed here:
>
>
> http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Installation#1._Make_sure_you_can_use_LimeSurvey_on_your_website
>

thx for the link, I will have a look at it.

rgds
jan I.

>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > rgds
> > Jan I.
> >
> >
> > >
> --**--**-
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> > dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, janI  wrote:

> On 18 April 2013 21:58, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>
> > janI wrote:
> >
> >> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>
> >>> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
> >
>  Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
> >>
> >
> > Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect an
> > official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on Infra
> > and just requires (lazy) consensus here.
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
> >
> 23 hours, not bad for "month-long wrestling match with
> Infra to get something like this set up" !!!
>
> The patch I made for dns is up and running. you can open "
> survey.openoffice.org". BUT something is not working in the other end,
> reply comes from hostmonster, with a possibilities to buy cars erc.
>
>
The DNS stuff had to happen first, and only then I can get it working on my
end.



> and yes I am a direct person, I like to tell people when they do something
> good and visa versa, but I dont like assuming ill behaivourbut that is
> just my way, and I am sorry if my direct way offended someonebut look
> infra got their part done, without wrestling.
>
>
I'm not assuming bad behavior.  I was just stating that I don't have the
time to guess whether this is an occasion where we get a fast response or a
slow one.  The response time from Infra, IMHO, is entirely unpredictable.
I have another DNS-related Infra request that are no more complicated and
have waited almost a year.  It looks like we were fortunate this time.

Our need to pick a logo design is very predictable and the time line for
that must go forward.  So I was happy to move forward with this either
way.  If I can avoid a dependency on Infra that is a good thing, not a bad
one.


> @rob: can you please have a look at your end, you need problaly to add it
> as a vhost.
>
>
Yes.


> I am not sure what the survey actually is, some kind of py/perl/js, I can
> get an idea, I can think about how we can move it to our own site.
>
>
It is a PHP app, LimeSurvey.  Pre-reqs are listed here:

http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Installation#1._Make_sure_you_can_use_LimeSurvey_on_your_website

Regards,

-Rob


> rgds
> Jan I.
>
>
> > --**--**-
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[janI]

On 18 April 2013 21:58, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> janI wrote:
>
>> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
>
 Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
>>
>
> Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect an
> official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on Infra
> and just requires (lazy) consensus here.
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
23 hours, not bad for "month-long wrestling match with
Infra to get something like this set up" !!!

The patch I made for dns is up and running. you can open "
survey.openoffice.org". BUT something is not working in the other end,
reply comes from hostmonster, with a possibilities to buy cars erc.

and yes I am a direct person, I like to tell people when they do something
good and visa versa, but I dont like assuming ill behaivourbut that is
just my way, and I am sorry if my direct way offended someonebut look
infra got their part done, without wrestling.

@rob: can you please have a look at your end, you need problaly to add it
as a vhost.

I am not sure what the survey actually is, some kind of py/perl/js, I can
get an idea, I can think about how we can move it to our own site.

rgds
Jan I.


> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Andrea Pescetti]

janI wrote:

On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir wrote:

If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.

Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?


Indeed, let's avoid using unofficial domains when we can redirect an 
official subdomain. Redirecting the DNS won't pose a big burden on Infra 
and just requires (lazy) consensus here.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Albino B Neto]

2013/4/18 Claudio Filho :
> Hi

Hi.

>> Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
>
> Direct to point, Janl. ;-)
>
> We can redirect the domain to your server, Rob, and after to migrate
> to Apache servers when possible.

+1

Albino

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Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Claudio Filho  wrote:

> Hi
>
> 2013/4/18, janI :
> > On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >> No objections is someone wants to have a month-long wrestling match with
> >> Infra to get something like this set up.  But I was able to get it set
> up
> >> on my server in 30 minutes, including buying the domain from GoDaddy for
> >> $7.00.
>
> My thinking is about the use of "pseudodomains" using the name of
> OpenOffice. Sure that we know who works in the project and who are the
> people, but (IMHO) is important join all services under the same
> domain.
>
> > Infra is not always that bad, they work hard, but if one asks nicely
> things
> > normally get done quickly.
> >
> > The new translate-vm2 was up and running 24hours after I asked for it.
>
> Some times, they have a hard lot of work that gives for us this
> impression. As I already have helped in the infra of BrOffice, I know
> how hard is them work, but one time that the "home is clean" is more
> easy (and responsive) they work/reply for our requests.
>
> > Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?
>
> Direct to point, Janl. ;-)
>
> We can redirect the domain to your server, Rob, and after to migrate
> to Apache servers when possible.
>
>
Directing to my server is easy.  Apache needs to create the
survey.openoffice.org subdomain and set the DNS "A" record to point to
67.20.112.98.

-Rob


> Bests,
> Claudio
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Claudio Filho]

Hi

2013/4/18, janI :
> On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir  wrote:
>> No objections is someone wants to have a month-long wrestling match with
>> Infra to get something like this set up.  But I was able to get it set up
>> on my server in 30 minutes, including buying the domain from GoDaddy for
>> $7.00.

My thinking is about the use of "pseudodomains" using the name of
OpenOffice. Sure that we know who works in the project and who are the
people, but (IMHO) is important join all services under the same
domain.

> Infra is not always that bad, they work hard, but if one asks nicely things
> normally get done quickly.
>
> The new translate-vm2 was up and running 24hours after I asked for it.

Some times, they have a hard lot of work that gives for us this
impression. As I already have helped in the infra of BrOffice, I know
how hard is them work, but one time that the "home is clean" is more
easy (and responsive) they work/reply for our requests.

> Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?

Direct to point, Janl. ;-)

We can redirect the domain to your server, Rob, and after to migrate
to Apache servers when possible.

Bests,
Claudio

-
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Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[janI]

On 18 April 2013 13:13, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Claudio Filho  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Em 17/04/2013 21:08, "Rob Weir"  escreveu:
> > > If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
> >
> > Rob, isn't better use this service in side of our domain? Some thing like
> > survey.OpenOffice.org?
> >
> > My two cents... ;-)
> >
> >
> No objections is someone wants to have a month-long wrestling match with
> Infra to get something like this set up.  But I was able to get it set up
> on my server in 30 minutes, including buying the domain from GoDaddy for
> $7.00.
>
Infra is not always that bad, they work hard, but if one asks nicely things
normally get done quickly.

The new translate-vm2 was up and running 24hours after I asked for it.

Where would like survey.openoffice.org to point to ?

rgds
Jan I.

>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> > Best regards
> > Claudio
> >
>

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Rob Weir]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:

> Rob,
>
> Would I be able to gain access to create this poll? Could you set me up and
> send me the details?
>
> I complete the test poll you sent out, there was a couple options shown off
> in that.  I'd have to see if it allows us to post an image right inside the
> survey so they don't need to turn to another tab.
>
>
It can be done, though it is not a standard question type.  But for each
question you can define the question itself in HTML, so that can include
 tags.

See:
http://www.aptigence.com.au/home/archives/24-Advanced-Question-Creation-in-LimeSurvey-Using-Pictures.html

So probably makes sense to first get all the logos resized to approximately
the same dimensions.  Then we can build survey questions from that.

I'd start with some opening demographic questions:

1) Country

2) Sex

3) Age

4) Are you currently an OpenOffice user?

4a) If so, for how many years

(These questions can help us see if there are any important trends, e.g.,
maybe logo preferences vary greatly depending on how long one has been an
OpenOffice user, i,e., how exposed you are to current logo versus someone
looking at it from perspective of a new user.   Also, having country can
help see if there are any cultural issues that could detract from a given
logo's suitability).

Then we need to present the logos and get feedback.  There are several ways
of doing it.

A) Could show a grid of all of the images, side-by-side, clearly labeled,
and then give a set of questions, e.g., like a 5-point scale:

http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Question_type_-_Array_%285_point_choice%29

or

B) Show one image for each question, with a scoring mechanism like this:

http://manual.limesurvey.org/wiki/Question_type_-_5_point_choice

In any case I'll send you access information.

-Rob






> Sam
> On Apr 17, 2013 8:08 PM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Kay Schenk 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Grignon <
> > kevingrignon...@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello All,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, i haven't had cycles to work on this.
> > > >
> > > > Please consider these votes a selection of direction as final
> > adjustments
> > > > will need to be made to the graphics and text.
> > > >
> > > > It appears there is interest in a flat treatment. Other than that,
> > > > palette, fonts and relation ship to app icons and other graphics is
> > still
> > > > open.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry to open a can of worms, but design is not linear, is not well
> > > suited
> > > > for polls. Rather, select a direction, say flat, then open a quick
> > > > iteration to explore flat. Incremental decisions will allow us to
> > refine.
> > > > It is not all or nothing. Also, consider the synergy which is
> possible
> > by
> > > > combining elements from different designs.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think the 5 or 6 (flat design) choices would be well-suited to a
> poll.
> > > Design is not linear as you point out, but a lot of time has already
> been
> > > spent on these proposals I would think.
> > >
> > > To me, there is no harm in a simple poll at this point.  I would think
> > > predominant participation would be from existing OpenOffice users, but
> I
> > > could be wrong about this.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.   I could
> > make it a ranked preference poll, where we can sort all of the options.
> > The survey can also have a box for comments.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Kevin
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
> > > > >> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
> > > > >> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis
> > > logo
> > > > is
> > > > >> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh
> > > with/without
> > > > >> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo
> preference
> > > (he
> > > > did
> > > > >> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not
> > > deciding
> > > > >> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
> > > > >> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
> > > > >> Dennis - Check with trademark@
> > > > >> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a
> > surrogate
> > > > in
> > > > >> the past due to limitations).
> > > > >> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
> > > > >> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers.
> > Proposes
> > > we
> > > > >> should poll.
> > > > >> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that
> is
> > > > >> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
> > > > >> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so 

Re: Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Claudio Filho  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Em 17/04/2013 21:08, "Rob Weir"  escreveu:
> > If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.
>
> Rob, isn't better use this service in side of our domain? Some thing like
> survey.OpenOffice.org?
>
> My two cents... ;-)
>
>
No objections is someone wants to have a month-long wrestling match with
Infra to get something like this set up.  But I was able to get it set up
on my server in 30 minutes, including buying the domain from GoDaddy for
$7.00.

-Rob



> Best regards
> Claudio
>

Official survey service? (Was: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo)

[Claudio Filho]

Hi

Em 17/04/2013 21:08, "Rob Weir"  escreveu:
> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.

Rob, isn't better use this service in side of our domain? Some thing like
survey.OpenOffice.org?

My two cents... ;-)

Best regards
Claudio

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

Rob,

Would I be able to gain access to create this poll? Could you set me up and
send me the details?

I complete the test poll you sent out, there was a couple options shown off
in that.  I'd have to see if it allows us to post an image right inside the
survey so they don't need to turn to another tab.

Sam
On Apr 17, 2013 8:08 PM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Grignon <
> kevingrignon...@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > Sorry, i haven't had cycles to work on this.
> > >
> > > Please consider these votes a selection of direction as final
> adjustments
> > > will need to be made to the graphics and text.
> > >
> > > It appears there is interest in a flat treatment. Other than that,
> > > palette, fonts and relation ship to app icons and other graphics is
> still
> > > open.
> > >
> > > Sorry to open a can of worms, but design is not linear, is not well
> > suited
> > > for polls. Rather, select a direction, say flat, then open a quick
> > > iteration to explore flat. Incremental decisions will allow us to
> refine.
> > > It is not all or nothing. Also, consider the synergy which is possible
> by
> > > combining elements from different designs.
> > >
> >
> > I think the 5 or 6 (flat design) choices would be well-suited to a poll.
> > Design is not linear as you point out, but a lot of time has already been
> > spent on these proposals I would think.
> >
> > To me, there is no harm in a simple poll at this point.  I would think
> > predominant participation would be from existing OpenOffice users, but I
> > could be wrong about this.
> >
> >
>
> If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.   I could
> make it a ranked preference poll, where we can sort all of the options.
> The survey can also have a box for comments.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
> > > >>
> > > >> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
> > > >> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
> > > >> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis
> > logo
> > > is
> > > >> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh
> > with/without
> > > >> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference
> > (he
> > > did
> > > >> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not
> > deciding
> > > >> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
> > > >> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
> > > >> Dennis - Check with trademark@
> > > >> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a
> surrogate
> > > in
> > > >> the past due to limitations).
> > > >> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
> > > >> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers.
> Proposes
> > we
> > > >> should poll.
> > > >> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
> > > >> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
> > > >> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
> > > >> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
> > > >> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC
> likes
> > > >> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and
> booth
> > > >> materials, CD prints, etc."
> > > >> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is
> > good.
> > > >> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
> > > >> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
> > > >> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
> > > >> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily
> > other
> > > way
> > > >> around.
> > > >>
> > > >> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook
> and
> > > >> social media.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True
> > > >>
> > > >> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos
> > that
> > > >> score the least will be eliminated:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Flattened Logo
> > > >> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
> > > >> 3. third pick abstained.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I would also include:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/31818000/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1365884183026
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the feather is a bit too big but it could be made smaller...
> > > >
> > > > I guess we work on lettering after the logo?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all this work by everybody!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch 
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 13 April 2013 16:25, Grah

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Rob Weir]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Grignon  >wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Sorry, i haven't had cycles to work on this.
> >
> > Please consider these votes a selection of direction as final adjustments
> > will need to be made to the graphics and text.
> >
> > It appears there is interest in a flat treatment. Other than that,
> > palette, fonts and relation ship to app icons and other graphics is still
> > open.
> >
> > Sorry to open a can of worms, but design is not linear, is not well
> suited
> > for polls. Rather, select a direction, say flat, then open a quick
> > iteration to explore flat. Incremental decisions will allow us to refine.
> > It is not all or nothing. Also, consider the synergy which is possible by
> > combining elements from different designs.
> >
>
> I think the 5 or 6 (flat design) choices would be well-suited to a poll.
> Design is not linear as you point out, but a lot of time has already been
> spent on these proposals I would think.
>
> To me, there is no harm in a simple poll at this point.  I would think
> predominant participation would be from existing OpenOffice users, but I
> could be wrong about this.
>
>

If we want I can put a poll up on http://openofficesurvey.org.   I could
make it a ranked preference poll, where we can sort all of the options.
The survey can also have a box for comments.

-Rob



>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
> > >>
> > >> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
> > >> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
> > >> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis
> logo
> > is
> > >> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh
> with/without
> > >> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference
> (he
> > did
> > >> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not
> deciding
> > >> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
> > >> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
> > >> Dennis - Check with trademark@
> > >> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate
> > in
> > >> the past due to limitations).
> > >> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
> > >> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes
> we
> > >> should poll.
> > >> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
> > >> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
> > >> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
> > >> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
> > >> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
> > >> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
> > >> materials, CD prints, etc."
> > >> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is
> good.
> > >> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
> > >> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
> > >> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
> > >> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily
> other
> > way
> > >> around.
> > >>
> > >> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
> > >> social media.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True
> > >>
> > >> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos
> that
> > >> score the least will be eliminated:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Flattened Logo
> > >> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
> > >> 3. third pick abstained.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I would also include:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/31818000/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1365884183026
> > >
> > > Yes, the feather is a bit too big but it could be made smaller...
> > >
> > > I guess we work on lettering after the logo?
> > >
> > > Thanks for all this work by everybody!
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch 
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
> > >>>
> > > Hi Milos,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
> > >> Hi guys,
> > >>
> > >> just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and
> > >> logos.
> > >> Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
> > >> during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
> > >> version (on light and dark background).
> > >>
> > >> I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
> > >> anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
> > >> cards, letterheads and other stationer

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kay Schenk]

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Grignon wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Sorry, i haven't had cycles to work on this.
>
> Please consider these votes a selection of direction as final adjustments
> will need to be made to the graphics and text.
>
> It appears there is interest in a flat treatment. Other than that,
> palette, fonts and relation ship to app icons and other graphics is still
> open.
>
> Sorry to open a can of worms, but design is not linear, is not well suited
> for polls. Rather, select a direction, say flat, then open a quick
> iteration to explore flat. Incremental decisions will allow us to refine.
> It is not all or nothing. Also, consider the synergy which is possible by
> combining elements from different designs.
>

I think the 5 or 6 (flat design) choices would be well-suited to a poll.
Design is not linear as you point out, but a lot of time has already been
spent on these proposals I would think.

To me, there is no harm in a simple poll at this point.  I would think
predominant participation would be from existing OpenOffice users, but I
could be wrong about this.



>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
> >>
> >> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
> >> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
> >> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo
> is
> >> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
> >> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he
> did
> >> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
> >> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
> >> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
> >> Dennis - Check with trademark@
> >> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate
> in
> >> the past due to limitations).
> >> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
> >> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
> >> should poll.
> >> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
> >> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
> >> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
> >> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
> >> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
> >> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
> >> materials, CD prints, etc."
> >> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
> >> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
> >> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
> >> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
> >> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other
> way
> >> around.
> >>
> >> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
> >> social media.
> >>
> >>
> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True
> >>
> >> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
> >> score the least will be eliminated:
> >>
> >> 1. Flattened Logo
> >> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
> >> 3. third pick abstained.
> >>
> >
> > I would also include:
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/31818000/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1365884183026
> >
> > Yes, the feather is a bit too big but it could be made smaller...
> >
> > I guess we work on lettering after the logo?
> >
> > Thanks for all this work by everybody!
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
> >>>
> > Hi Milos,
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >> just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and
> >> logos.
> >> Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
> >> during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
> >> version (on light and dark background).
> >>
> >> I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
> >> anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
> >> cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.
> >
> > But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
> > focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is
> >> mainly
> > used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
> > website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
> > lowest priority.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> 
>  I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time
> >> at
>  the
>  moment to gi

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Armin Le Grand]

Hi Samer,

On 16.04.2013 22:06, Samer Mansour wrote:

Armin,

The application icons may differ from the logo.  Are you talking about
these:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/02+-+Design+Proposal+Samer+Mansour+2013.03.03

It may have been the first version of that that I removed a few months
back. There was some design faux pas in that icon set.


It was something like that, I'm not 100% sure (time kills pixels in 
memory ;-)) I checked the history, so it may have been version 1.0 of 
that page. I ought to remember that there were "both" gulls in that 
App-like logo. Hmmm...


It remember it was as a reply to my mail around Januar 
(http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201301.mbox/%3c50e41265.1040...@me.com%3E) 
which contained my Logo-Mockup 
(http://people.apache.org/~alg/Logos/AOOLogo.png 
). Someone grepped 
the idea and extended it, but I cannot find it anymore.





Please check sibling pages. I haven't deleted anything in the wiki. I've
copied pages and then deleted content to make summaries.
On Apr 16, 2013 9:03 AM, "Armin Le Grand"  wrote:


 Hi Samer,

thanks for working on the overview! Despite that, I'm missing the
'App-Icon'-like ones, I do no longer know whwre these were or from whom.
It's the rectangular ones (like the famous 'App'-icons for various
AppStores, in our Blue, with the Seagulls, also with slight lighting
effect. I consider these a good and modern alternative.
Could we please add these to the selection (if we find them again, of
course)...?

Sincerely,
 Armin

On 14.04.2013 00:42, Samer Mansour wrote:


Summary of feedback (which I found made points):

Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he
did
submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
Dennis - Check with trademark@
Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
the past due to limitations).
Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
should poll.
Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
materials, CD prints, etc."
Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
"Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other
way
around.

I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
social media.
http://freeonlinesurveys.com/**app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&**
sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=**True

Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
score the least will be eliminated:

1. Flattened Logo
2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
3. third pick abstained.



On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:

  On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:

  Hi Milos,

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:


Hi guys,

just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and logos.
Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
version (on light and dark background).

I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.


But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is mainly
used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
lowest priority.


Regards


I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time
at
the
moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list


as


I
am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.

The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement


above


shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers has
far
from given us a paperless office,

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

Armin,

The application icons may differ from the logo.  Are you talking about
these:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/02+-+Design+Proposal+Samer+Mansour+2013.03.03

It may have been the first version of that that I removed a few months
back. There was some design faux pas in that icon set.

Please check sibling pages. I haven't deleted anything in the wiki. I've
copied pages and then deleted content to make summaries.
On Apr 16, 2013 9:03 AM, "Armin Le Grand"  wrote:

> Hi Samer,
>
> thanks for working on the overview! Despite that, I'm missing the
> 'App-Icon'-like ones, I do no longer know whwre these were or from whom.
> It's the rectangular ones (like the famous 'App'-icons for various
> AppStores, in our Blue, with the Seagulls, also with slight lighting
> effect. I consider these a good and modern alternative.
> Could we please add these to the selection (if we find them again, of
> course)...?
>
> Sincerely,
> Armin
>
> On 14.04.2013 00:42, Samer Mansour wrote:
>
>> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
>>
>> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
>> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
>> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
>> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
>> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he
>> did
>> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
>> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
>> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
>> Dennis - Check with trademark@
>> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
>> the past due to limitations).
>> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
>> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
>> should poll.
>> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
>> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
>> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
>> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
>> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
>> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
>> materials, CD prints, etc."
>> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
>> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
>> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
>> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
>> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other
>> way
>> around.
>>
>> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
>> social media.
>> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/**app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&**
>> sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=**True
>>
>> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
>> score the least will be eliminated:
>>
>> 1. Flattened Logo
>> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
>> 3. third pick abstained.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>>
>>  On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Milos,
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and logos.
>> Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
>> during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
>> version (on light and dark background).
>>
>> I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
>> anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
>> cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.
>>
> But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
> focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is mainly
> used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
> website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
> lowest priority.
>
>
> Regards
>
 I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time
 at
 the
 moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list

>>> as
>>>
 I
 am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.

 The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement

>>> above
>>>
 shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers has
 far
 from given us a paperless office, it has in fact increased paper usage

>>> by a
>>>
 huge margin.  Print media is a hugely significant part of marketing
 collateral.  Flyers, posters CD sleeves and labels, business cards etc.
 Whenever reviews are printed in magazines there should be a logo with
 the

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Armin Le Grand]

Hi Samer,

thanks for working on the overview! Despite that, I'm missing the 
'App-Icon'-like ones, I do no longer know whwre these were or from whom. 
It's the rectangular ones (like the famous 'App'-icons for various 
AppStores, in our Blue, with the Seagulls, also with slight lighting 
effect. I consider these a good and modern alternative.
Could we please add these to the selection (if we find them again, of 
course)...?


Sincerely,
Armin

On 14.04.2013 00:42, Samer Mansour wrote:

Summary of feedback (which I found made points):

Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he did
submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
Dennis - Check with trademark@
Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
the past due to limitations).
Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
should poll.
Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
materials, CD prints, etc."
Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
"Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other way
around.

I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
social media.
http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True

Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
score the least will be eliminated:

1. Flattened Logo
2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
3. third pick abstained.



On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:


On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:


Hi Milos,

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:

Hi guys,

just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and logos.
Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
version (on light and dark background).

I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.

But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is mainly
used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
lowest priority.


Regards

I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time at
the
moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list

as

I
am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.

The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement

above

shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers has
far
from given us a paperless office, it has in fact increased paper usage

by a

huge margin.  Print media is a hugely significant part of marketing
collateral.  Flyers, posters CD sleeves and labels, business cards etc.
Whenever reviews are printed in magazines there should be a logo with the
article.  Logo is not just about finding OO on a computer, that's an

icon.

The logo should work in print (specifically worst case scenario which is

4

colour on newsprint) and it will work digitally, the opposite does not
necessarily follow.

Cheers
GL

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org



Apart form anything else, why is it so difficult to make a vector image
that is good on print and on screen? When something is achievable why
settle for something less?


--
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications <
https://theingots.org/community/faq#7.0>

Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.


--
ALG

--

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kevin Grignon]

If we pursue flat, let's explore some modifications to the pages (gulls). In my 
flat submission I have made the gulls more predominant which broader strikes 
and deeper arcs. 

Also, we should see the proposals with drop shadows as key OS apply one. The 
wingtip which extends off the orb would need such a shadow. 

Regards,
Kevin

On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:
> 
>> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
>> 
>> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
>> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
>> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
>> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
>> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he did
>> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
>> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
>> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
>> Dennis - Check with trademark@
>> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
>> the past due to limitations).
>> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
>> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
>> should poll.
>> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
>> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
>> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
>> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
>> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
>> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
>> materials, CD prints, etc."
>> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
>> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
>> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
>> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
>> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other way
>> around.
>> 
>> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
>> social media.
>> 
>> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True
>> 
>> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
>> score the least will be eliminated:
>> 
>> 1. Flattened Logo
>> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
>> 3. third pick abstained.
>> 
> 
> I would also include:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/31818000/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1365884183026
> 
> Yes, the feather is a bit too big but it could be made smaller...
> 
> I guess we work on lettering after the logo?
> 
> Thanks for all this work by everybody!
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
>>> 
> Hi Milos,
> 
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and
>> logos.
>> Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
>> during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
>> version (on light and dark background).
>> 
>> I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
>> anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
>> cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.
> 
> But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
> focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is
>> mainly
> used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
> website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
> lowest priority.
> 
> 
> Regards
 
 I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time
>> at
 the
 moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list
>>> as
 I
 am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.
 
 The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement
>>> above
 shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers
>> has
 far
 from given us a paperless office, it has in fact increased paper usage
>>> by a
 huge margin.  Print media is a hugely significant part of marketing
 collateral.  Flyers, posters CD sleeves and labels, business cards etc.
 Whenever reviews are printed in magazines there should be a logo with
>> the
 article.  Logo is not just about finding OO on a computer, that's an
>>> icon.
 
 The logo should work in print (specifically worst case scenario which
>> is
>>> 4
 colour on newsprint) and it will work digitally, the opposite does not
 necessarily follow.
 
 Cheers
 GL
 
 ---

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kevin Grignon]

Hello All,

Sorry, i haven't had cycles to work on this. 

Please consider these votes a selection of direction as final adjustments will 
need to be made to the graphics and text. 

It appears there is interest in a flat treatment. Other than that, palette, 
fonts and relation ship to app icons and other graphics is still open. 

Sorry to open a can of worms, but design is not linear, is not well suited for 
polls. Rather, select a direction, say flat, then open a quick iteration to 
explore flat. Incremental decisions will allow us to refine. It is not all or 
nothing. Also, consider the synergy which is possible by combining elements 
from different designs. 

Regards,
Kevin

On Apr 15, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:
> 
>> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
>> 
>> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
>> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
>> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
>> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
>> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he did
>> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
>> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
>> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
>> Dennis - Check with trademark@
>> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
>> the past due to limitations).
>> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
>> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
>> should poll.
>> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
>> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
>> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
>> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
>> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
>> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
>> materials, CD prints, etc."
>> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
>> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
>> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
>> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
>> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other way
>> around.
>> 
>> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
>> social media.
>> 
>> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True
>> 
>> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
>> score the least will be eliminated:
>> 
>> 1. Flattened Logo
>> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
>> 3. third pick abstained.
>> 
> 
> I would also include:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/31818000/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1365884183026
> 
> Yes, the feather is a bit too big but it could be made smaller...
> 
> I guess we work on lettering after the logo?
> 
> Thanks for all this work by everybody!
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
>>> 
> Hi Milos,
> 
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and
>> logos.
>> Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
>> during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
>> version (on light and dark background).
>> 
>> I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
>> anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
>> cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.
> 
> But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
> focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is
>> mainly
> used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
> website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
> lowest priority.
> 
> 
> Regards
 
 I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time
>> at
 the
 moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list
>>> as
 I
 am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.
 
 The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement
>>> above
 shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers
>> has
 far
 from given us a paperless office, it has in fact increased paper usage
>>> by a
 huge margin.  Print media is a hugely significant part of marketing
 collateral.  Flyers, posters CD sleeves and labels, business cards etc.
 Whenever reviews are printed in magazines there should be a l

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kay Schenk]

On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:

> Summary of feedback (which I found made points):
>
> Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
> Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
> Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
> cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
> feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he did
> submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
> factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
> Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
> Dennis - Check with trademark@
> Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
> the past due to limitations).
> Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
> Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
> should poll.
> Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
> convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
> Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
> Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
> Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
> data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
> materials, CD prints, etc."
> Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
> "Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
> doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
> Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
> marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other way
> around.
>
> I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
> social media.
>
> http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True
>
> Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
> score the least will be eliminated:
>
> 1. Flattened Logo
> 2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
> 3. third pick abstained.
>

I would also include:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/31818000/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1365884183026

Yes, the feather is a bit too big but it could be made smaller...

I guess we work on lettering after the logo?

Thanks for all this work by everybody!


>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>
> > On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
> >
> > > > Hi Milos,
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
> > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > >
> > > > > just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and
> logos.
> > > > > Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
> > > > > during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
> > > > > version (on light and dark background).
> > > > >
> > > > > I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
> > > > > anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
> > > > > cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.
> > > >
> > > > But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
> > > > focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is
> mainly
> > > > used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
> > > > website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
> > > > lowest priority.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > >
> > > I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time
> at
> > > the
> > > moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list
> > as
> > > I
> > > am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.
> > >
> > > The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement
> > above
> > > shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers
> has
> > > far
> > > from given us a paperless office, it has in fact increased paper usage
> > by a
> > > huge margin.  Print media is a hugely significant part of marketing
> > > collateral.  Flyers, posters CD sleeves and labels, business cards etc.
> > > Whenever reviews are printed in magazines there should be a logo with
> the
> > > article.  Logo is not just about finding OO on a computer, that's an
> > icon.
> > >
> > > The logo should work in print (specifically worst case scenario which
> is
> > 4
> > > colour on newsprint) and it will work digitally, the opposite does not
> > > necessarily follow.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > GL
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Apart form anything else, why is it so difficult to make a vector image
> > that is good on print and on screen? When something is achievable why
> > settle for something less?
> >
> >
> > --
> >

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

Summary of feedback (which I found made points):

Samer - Lets go flat, its strong in all aspects brought up.
Kay S. - Agrees with flat logo. Poll should be limited to few.
Robin - Wordmarks need more attention (not logo specific), Vasilis logo is
cool, downside too different. Robin made a similar refresh with/without
feather. Scales his orb down, no indication for his logo preference (he did
submit one more). Agrees technical aspect of print, but its not deciding
factor (I agree but it should be satisfied).
Dave F - Wordmark needs attention as well, likes flat logo.
Dennis - Check with trademark@
Andrea - Likes orb, not a fan of flat (as its been used as a surrogate in
the past due to limitations).
Alexandro - alters Robins logo.
Juergen - What about stand alone logo for buttons, stickers. Proposes we
should poll.
Kadal - "Because companies do it, we shouldn't?" - not sure that is
convincing b/c they pay expert designers.
Vasilis - Likes flat, but wordmark not so much.
Milo - Likes flat, but workmark needs changing, TM placement too.
Rob - Poll, but its not decision making. PMC decides in end. PMC likes
data, more the better (ie. poll data). "Consider conferences and booth
materials, CD prints, etc."
Janl - Agrees poll for decision is bad idea, but poll for data is good.
"Keep it similar to classic orb". "Doesn't have to be flat" but Janl
doesn't state outright if flat is bad.
Graham L - "Logo is not a computer icon". Print is a huge part of
marketing. Print good -> electronically good, but not necessarily other way
around.

I could set up a visual poll and share multiple time over facebook and
social media.
http://freeonlinesurveys.com/app/showpoll.asp?qid=244375&sid=xz7athj6ytcg4mb244375&new=True

Respond with your favourite 3 logo please, or top 2 or 1. The logos that
score the least will be eliminated:

1. Flattened Logo
2. Kevin G. Flat Feather.
3. third pick abstained.



On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Ian Lynch  wrote:

> On 13 April 2013 16:25, Graham Lauder  wrote:
>
> > > Hi Milos,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 06:45:18PM +0200, Milosh Vujnovic wrote:
> > > > Hi guys,
> > > >
> > > > just a quick comment and clarification regarding printing and logos.
> > > > Print-friendly version (vector, CMYK) is crucial to be prepared
> > > > during logo design process. This includes color and black&white
> > > > version (on light and dark background).
> > > >
> > > > I must disagree with the comments on that printing is rarely used
> > > > anymore - few examples include billboards, fair stands, business
> > > > cards, letterheads and other stationery, and so on.
> > >
> > > But OpenOffice is a desktop application. For me, this means the main
> > > focus should be in a logo that looks good everywhere where it is mainly
> > > used, in the user's desktop (even in the window title bar) and the
> > > website (even in the website favicon). Thus, IMHO, printing has the
> > > lowest priority.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> >
> > I have been keeping out of this conversation because I don't have time at
> > the
> > moment to give sufficient focus to OO, but I have been reading the list
> as
> > I
> > am able.  The above statement however prompts me to respond.
> >
> > The main focus of the logo is to identify and attract. The statement
> above
> > shows a limited understanding of marketing.  The advent of computers has
> > far
> > from given us a paperless office, it has in fact increased paper usage
> by a
> > huge margin.  Print media is a hugely significant part of marketing
> > collateral.  Flyers, posters CD sleeves and labels, business cards etc.
> > Whenever reviews are printed in magazines there should be a logo with the
> > article.  Logo is not just about finding OO on a computer, that's an
> icon.
> >
> > The logo should work in print (specifically worst case scenario which is
> 4
> > colour on newsprint) and it will work digitally, the opposite does not
> > necessarily follow.
> >
> > Cheers
> > GL
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
>
> Apart form anything else, why is it so difficult to make a vector image
> that is good on print and on screen? When something is achievable why
> settle for something less?
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications <
> https://theingots.org/community/faq#7.0>
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[janI]

On Apr 11, 2013 10:01 AM, "Andrea Pescetti"  wrote:
>
> On 08/04/2013 Robin Fowler wrote:
>>
>> I think it's important to get the
>> priorities right here. In my opinion the priority is to have a
>> modern, good-looking and recognisable logo that the community has
>> chosen to be representative of their product
>
>
> I agree. And I would add: the project communication, in terms of presence
at events and press coverage, is not yet strong enough to be able to switch
to a totally new logo without leaving many users confused on whether they
installed the real OpenOffice or not. This is my main argument for
preferring a refresh to a complete restart.
>
+1 this is a very important point, we should in no way confuse our users
!!! openoffice it THE original package, lets keep it that way !

Now, I must say that the flattened orb does not seem more modern or nicer
to me, but probably I'm biased because I've always seen the flattened orb
as the "surrogate" to be used in low-quality prints...
>From a personal perspective I agree with the statement, todays printer can
handle not flattened images, and who prints nowadays (save the rainforest,
buy a tablet) ?

rgds
Jan I
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 08/04/2013 Robin Fowler wrote:

I think it's important to get the
priorities right here. In my opinion the priority is to have a
modern, good-looking and recognisable logo that the community has
chosen to be representative of their product


I agree. And I would add: the project communication, in terms of 
presence at events and press coverage, is not yet strong enough to be 
able to switch to a totally new logo without leaving many users confused 
on whether they installed the real OpenOffice or not. This is my main 
argument for preferring a refresh to a complete restart.


Now, I must say that the flattened orb does not seem more modern or 
nicer to me, but probably I'm biased because I've always seen the 
flattened orb as the "surrogate" to be used in low-quality prints...


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kay Schenk]

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Robin Fowler wrote:

> Hi Samer,
>
> I agree with you that the logos should be evaluated with technical
> limitations in mind, but I think you might be putting too much emphasis on
> aspects that are not very relevant and should not be high on the priority
> list of choosing the right logo.
>
> I'm pretty sure the logo will be seen on screens 99% of the time and
> should therefore be designed for the screen. It will be seen on the website
> and as an application icon. That doesn't mean print shouldn't be
> considered, but it shouldn't be the primary reason for choosing a logo. And
> just to clear up any misconceptions, gradients can be printed fine
> nowadays. What would the logo be printed on anyway?
>
> I'm not saying I have much of a problem with the logo you chose (i can
> give more feedback), but I think it's important to get the priorities right
> here. In my opinion the priority is to have a modern, good-looking and
> recognisable logo that the community has chosen to be representative of
> their product, and i think that is what designers would vote for as well. I
> just think having a poll would be best.
>
> P.S. I agree with you that my first proposal doesn't scale that well, I
> will see if I can improve it.
>
> Robin
>

I think some sort of poll from users would be useful -- with ONLY the
candidates we think would scale well, of course.

Really even in that category there are about 5 or 6 that I really liked.




>
>
> On 5 Apr 2013, at 23:12, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>
> > I don't know if anyone watched the news yesterday, but does this logo
> look
> > a little familiar:
> > Facebook Home -
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lep_DSmSRwE
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Think of the average person, you tell them this needs to be used in the
> > icons, website, print, media, if you put these up for a poll from them,
> > they will vote for the most visually appealing.
> > Now think of designers, you tell them this needs to be used in the icons,
> > website, print, media, if you put these up for a poll from them, they
> will
> > vote for the best logo based on the use.
> >
> > Like Janl has stated, I moved forward with this one because it considered
> > the different mediums they will be displayed on and scaling the best.
> >
> > What specifically is not liked in the flattened proposals? Like Milos
> > pointed out, the TM spacing and size can be corrected and the font can be
> > changed with a new open font (someone can suggest and point me where to
> > download the font that suggest?)
> >
> > In order to propose a logo to the PMC, I don't think a vote or poll may
> be
> > necessar
> > If we can get to a point where one logo is picked, the PMC doesn't need
> to
> > judge logos, they just have to approve the change, am I correct?
> >
> > Here is something more constructive:
> > - Robin, would you be able to alter your logo to make it scalable, lines
> > are currently lost when shrinking. 32x32 and 16x16 icon?
> > - Vasilis, your logo too, could you figure a way to scale that down to
> > 32x32 and 16x16. I'm also interested to see what that logo would look
> like
> > if the gradients were gone, it would be excellent for print.  Could you
> > post that separately to compare?
> >
> > This isn't easy, the old logo works really well in all these areas so I
> > don't want to replace it with something that doesn't work well in the
> same
> > areas
> >
> > The official logo should be version independent as well.
> >
> > Samer
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Dave Fisher 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:02 AM, janI wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5 April 2013 16:52, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >>>
>  On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI  wrote:
> 
> > On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <
> jogischm...@gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>  Hello Everyone,
> 
>  Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
> >> http://imagebin.org/252847
>  I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open'
>  in
> >> the
>  wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the
>  lighter
> >>> blue.
>  I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by
>  the
> >> two
>  O's as many people's designs had suggested.
>  The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> >>>
> >>> mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply
> move
> >>> forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks
> now
> > and
> >>> it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> >>>
> >>> We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones
> and
> >>> start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in
>  more
> >>> detail if t

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Robin Fowler]

Hi Samer,

I agree with you that the logos should be evaluated with technical limitations 
in mind, but I think you might be putting too much emphasis on aspects that are 
not very relevant and should not be high on the priority list of choosing the 
right logo.

I'm pretty sure the logo will be seen on screens 99% of the time and should 
therefore be designed for the screen. It will be seen on the website and as an 
application icon. That doesn't mean print shouldn't be considered, but it 
shouldn't be the primary reason for choosing a logo. And just to clear up any 
misconceptions, gradients can be printed fine nowadays. What would the logo be 
printed on anyway?

I'm not saying I have much of a problem with the logo you chose (i can give 
more feedback), but I think it's important to get the priorities right here. In 
my opinion the priority is to have a modern, good-looking and recognisable logo 
that the community has chosen to be representative of their product, and i 
think that is what designers would vote for as well. I just think having a poll 
would be best.

P.S. I agree with you that my first proposal doesn't scale that well, I will 
see if I can improve it.

Robin


On 5 Apr 2013, at 23:12, Samer Mansour  wrote:

> I don't know if anyone watched the news yesterday, but does this logo look
> a little familiar:
> Facebook Home -
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lep_DSmSRwE
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Think of the average person, you tell them this needs to be used in the
> icons, website, print, media, if you put these up for a poll from them,
> they will vote for the most visually appealing.
> Now think of designers, you tell them this needs to be used in the icons,
> website, print, media, if you put these up for a poll from them, they will
> vote for the best logo based on the use.
> 
> Like Janl has stated, I moved forward with this one because it considered
> the different mediums they will be displayed on and scaling the best.
> 
> What specifically is not liked in the flattened proposals? Like Milos
> pointed out, the TM spacing and size can be corrected and the font can be
> changed with a new open font (someone can suggest and point me where to
> download the font that suggest?)
> 
> In order to propose a logo to the PMC, I don't think a vote or poll may be
> necessar
> If we can get to a point where one logo is picked, the PMC doesn't need to
> judge logos, they just have to approve the change, am I correct?
> 
> Here is something more constructive:
> - Robin, would you be able to alter your logo to make it scalable, lines
> are currently lost when shrinking. 32x32 and 16x16 icon?
> - Vasilis, your logo too, could you figure a way to scale that down to
> 32x32 and 16x16. I'm also interested to see what that logo would look like
> if the gradients were gone, it would be excellent for print.  Could you
> post that separately to compare?
> 
> This isn't easy, the old logo works really well in all these areas so I
> don't want to replace it with something that doesn't work well in the same
> areas
> 
> The official logo should be version independent as well.
> 
> Samer
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:02 AM, janI wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5 April 2013 16:52, Rob Weir  wrote:
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI  wrote:
 
> On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt >> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
 Hello Everyone,
 
 Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
>> http://imagebin.org/252847
 I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open'
 in
>> the
 wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the
 lighter
>>> blue.
 I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by
 the
>> two
 O's as many people's designs had suggested.
 The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
>>> 
>>> mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
>>> forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now
> and
>>> it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
>>> 
>>> We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
>>> start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in
 more
>>> detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
>>> further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a
 form
>> of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is
> not
>> a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post
>> and
>> gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
>> We'll also ge

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

I don't know if anyone watched the news yesterday, but does this logo look
a little familiar:
Facebook Home -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lep_DSmSRwE

Hi Everyone,

Think of the average person, you tell them this needs to be used in the
icons, website, print, media, if you put these up for a poll from them,
they will vote for the most visually appealing.
Now think of designers, you tell them this needs to be used in the icons,
website, print, media, if you put these up for a poll from them, they will
vote for the best logo based on the use.

Like Janl has stated, I moved forward with this one because it considered
the different mediums they will be displayed on and scaling the best.

What specifically is not liked in the flattened proposals? Like Milos
pointed out, the TM spacing and size can be corrected and the font can be
changed with a new open font (someone can suggest and point me where to
download the font that suggest?)

In order to propose a logo to the PMC, I don't think a vote or poll may be
necessar
If we can get to a point where one logo is picked, the PMC doesn't need to
judge logos, they just have to approve the change, am I correct?

Here is something more constructive:
- Robin, would you be able to alter your logo to make it scalable, lines
are currently lost when shrinking. 32x32 and 16x16 icon?
- Vasilis, your logo too, could you figure a way to scale that down to
32x32 and 16x16. I'm also interested to see what that logo would look like
if the gradients were gone, it would be excellent for print.  Could you
post that separately to compare?

This isn't easy, the old logo works really well in all these areas so I
don't want to replace it with something that doesn't work well in the same
areas

The official logo should be version independent as well.

Samer



On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

>
> On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:02 AM, janI wrote:
>
> > On 5 April 2013 16:52, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >>>
>  On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  > wrote:
> 
> > On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> >> Hello Everyone,
> >>
> >> Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
>  http://imagebin.org/252847
> >> I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open'
> >> in
>  the
> >> wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the
> >> lighter
> > blue.
> >> I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by
> >> the
>  two
> >> O's as many people's designs had suggested.
> >> The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> >
> > mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> > forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now
> >>> and
> > it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> >
> > We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> > start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in
> >> more
> > detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> > further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
> >
> >
>  Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a
> >> form
>  of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is
> >>> not
>  a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post
> and
>  gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
>  We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.
> >>> This
>  all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members,
> >> users,
>  experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur
> >> on
>  their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
>  decides in the end.
> 
> >>>
> >>> I have lost the overview of how many logos are in competition, since it
> >> do
> >>> not follow this theme intensively. I have seen at least one I really
> >> liked,
> >>> but to fair I think we should make one page (mwiki/cwiki or something
> >> else)
> >>> where everybody can see the competing logos side by side. The logos
> >> should
> >>> each be structured as Web-logo, software-logo and favicon (many seems
> to
> >>> forget this important part). With such a page the community can give
> >> their
> >>> opinion (I agree with rob, no vote just a poll), and the 3 best, go in
> a
> >>> second round, and of course pmc officially decide, but I am pretty sure
> >>> they will follow the opinion of the community.
> >>>
> >>> I personally would not take the 3 best to a blog/facebook etcthis
> is
> >>> "our" product, and we the community decide how to present it to the
> >>> end-users.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I think of the Facebook thing would be more a poll then a decision
> making
> >> 

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Dave Fisher]

On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:02 AM, janI wrote:

> On 5 April 2013 16:52, Rob Weir  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
 
> On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
 http://imagebin.org/252847
>> I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open'
>> in
 the
>> wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the
>> lighter
> blue.
>> I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by
>> the
 two
>> O's as many people's designs had suggested.
>> The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> 
> mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now
>>> and
> it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> 
> We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in
>> more
> detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
> 
> 
 Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a
>> form
 of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is
>>> not
 a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post and
 gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
 We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.
>>> This
 all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members,
>> users,
 experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur
>> on
 their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
 decides in the end.
 
>>> 
>>> I have lost the overview of how many logos are in competition, since it
>> do
>>> not follow this theme intensively. I have seen at least one I really
>> liked,
>>> but to fair I think we should make one page (mwiki/cwiki or something
>> else)
>>> where everybody can see the competing logos side by side. The logos
>> should
>>> each be structured as Web-logo, software-logo and favicon (many seems to
>>> forget this important part). With such a page the community can give
>> their
>>> opinion (I agree with rob, no vote just a poll), and the 3 best, go in a
>>> second round, and of course pmc officially decide, but I am pretty sure
>>> they will follow the opinion of the community.
>>> 
>>> I personally would not take the 3 best to a blog/facebook etcthis is
>>> "our" product, and we the community decide how to present it to the
>>> end-users.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I think of the Facebook thing would be more a poll then a decision making
>> process.  It is another source of info.  As a PMC member, the more data I
>> have to help make decisions the better.  I'd weigh heavily community
>> opinion on our mailing lists, but I'd also be interesting in taking the
>> pulse of ordinary users who are seeing these things for the first time with
>> a fresh perspecitve,  as well as the opinions of experts.  It is all data.
>> It is all good.
>> 
>> It is "our" product, yes, but the logo is not for our private adoration.
>> It is functional, in the sense that its distinctiveness and recognizably is
>> as important as its aesthetics.  Personally, to make up my mind, I need to
>> have feedback on how "outsiders" see and mentally process the logo, and not
>> just how project "insiders" see it.  I think it needs to work well for all.
>> 
> 
> Point taken, now I understand your view better and agree with it. But I
> would still like to see all logos on a single page in the 3 variants, that
> would help me and others make up our minds, and give you as PMC better
> input.

All logos on a new wiki page. If a designer wants to remove some of their 
designs from consideration now would be the time.

I agree with having a poll. Keep track of the source of each set of results.

Interpret the poll here on the list. If there is no consensus on the best 
choice then we have a vote. If there are more than 2 possible best choices we 
can use a ranked choice voting method.

Seems like a plan.

Would be something to start next week. Maybe Tuesday?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> rgds
> jan I.
> 
> 
>> -Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Rgds
>>> Jan I.
>>> 
>>> -Rob
 
 
 
> Then start the final vote.
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> Juergen
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png
 export.
>> 
>> Samer
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour >> 
> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be
>>> able
 to
>>

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[janI]

On 5 April 2013 16:52, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI  wrote:
>
> > On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > > > Hello Everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
> > > http://imagebin.org/252847
> > > > > I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open'
> in
> > > the
> > > > > wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the
> lighter
> > > > blue.
> > > > > I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by
> the
> > > two
> > > > > O's as many people's designs had suggested.
> > > > > The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> > > >
> > > > mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> > > > forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now
> > and
> > > > it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> > > >
> > > > We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> > > > start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in
> more
> > > > detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> > > > further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a
> form
> > > of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is
> > not
> > > a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post and
> > > gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
> > > We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.
> >  This
> > > all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members,
> users,
> > > experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur
> on
> > > their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
> > > decides in the end.
> > >
> >
> > I have lost the overview of how many logos are in competition, since it
> do
> > not follow this theme intensively. I have seen at least one I really
> liked,
> > but to fair I think we should make one page (mwiki/cwiki or something
> else)
> > where everybody can see the competing logos side by side. The logos
> should
> > each be structured as Web-logo, software-logo and favicon (many seems to
> > forget this important part). With such a page the community can give
> their
> > opinion (I agree with rob, no vote just a poll), and the 3 best, go in a
> > second round, and of course pmc officially decide, but I am pretty sure
> > they will follow the opinion of the community.
> >
> > I personally would not take the 3 best to a blog/facebook etcthis is
> > "our" product, and we the community decide how to present it to the
> > end-users.
> >
> >
> I think of the Facebook thing would be more a poll then a decision making
> process.  It is another source of info.  As a PMC member, the more data I
> have to help make decisions the better.  I'd weigh heavily community
> opinion on our mailing lists, but I'd also be interesting in taking the
> pulse of ordinary users who are seeing these things for the first time with
> a fresh perspecitve,  as well as the opinions of experts.  It is all data.
> It is all good.
>
> It is "our" product, yes, but the logo is not for our private adoration.
> It is functional, in the sense that its distinctiveness and recognizably is
> as important as its aesthetics.  Personally, to make up my mind, I need to
> have feedback on how "outsiders" see and mentally process the logo, and not
> just how project "insiders" see it.  I think it needs to work well for all.
>

Point taken, now I understand your view better and agree with it. But I
would still like to see all logos on a single page in the 3 variants, that
would help me and others make up our minds, and give you as PMC better
input.

rgds
jan I.


> -Rob
>
>
>
> > Rgds
> > Jan I.
> >
> > -Rob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Then start the final vote.
> > > >
> > > > Just my opinion
> > > >
> > > > Juergen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png
> > > export.
> > > > >
> > > > > Samer
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hello,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be
> > able
> > > to
> > > > >> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.
> >  We
> > > > can
> > > > >> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Samer
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype,
> > > Twitter
> > > > >>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good
> > > > looking
> > > > >>

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM, janI  wrote:

> On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  > >wrote:
> >
> > > On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > > Hello Everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
> > http://imagebin.org/252847
> > > > I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open' in
> > the
> > > > wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the lighter
> > > blue.
> > > > I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by the
> > two
> > > > O's as many people's designs had suggested.
> > > > The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> > >
> > > mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> > > forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now
> and
> > > it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> > >
> > > We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> > > start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in more
> > > detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> > > further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a form
> > of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is
> not
> > a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post and
> > gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
> > We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.
>  This
> > all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members, users,
> > experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur on
> > their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
> > decides in the end.
> >
>
> I have lost the overview of how many logos are in competition, since it do
> not follow this theme intensively. I have seen at least one I really liked,
> but to fair I think we should make one page (mwiki/cwiki or something else)
> where everybody can see the competing logos side by side. The logos should
> each be structured as Web-logo, software-logo and favicon (many seems to
> forget this important part). With such a page the community can give their
> opinion (I agree with rob, no vote just a poll), and the 3 best, go in a
> second round, and of course pmc officially decide, but I am pretty sure
> they will follow the opinion of the community.
>
> I personally would not take the 3 best to a blog/facebook etcthis is
> "our" product, and we the community decide how to present it to the
> end-users.
>
>
I think of the Facebook thing would be more a poll then a decision making
process.  It is another source of info.  As a PMC member, the more data I
have to help make decisions the better.  I'd weigh heavily community
opinion on our mailing lists, but I'd also be interesting in taking the
pulse of ordinary users who are seeing these things for the first time with
a fresh perspecitve,  as well as the opinions of experts.  It is all data.
It is all good.

It is "our" product, yes, but the logo is not for our private adoration.
It is functional, in the sense that its distinctiveness and recognizably is
as important as its aesthetics.  Personally, to make up my mind, I need to
have feedback on how "outsiders" see and mentally process the logo, and not
just how project "insiders" see it.  I think it needs to work well for all.

-Rob



> Rgds
> Jan I.
>
> -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then start the final vote.
> > >
> > > Just my opinion
> > >
> > > Juergen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png
> > export.
> > > >
> > > > Samer
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hello,
> > > >>
> > > >> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be
> able
> > to
> > > >> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.
>  We
> > > can
> > > >> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
> > > >>
> > > >> Samer
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham 
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype,
> > Twitter
> > > >>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good
> > > looking
> > > >>> logo
> > > >>>
> > > >>> With Warm Regards
> > > >>>
> > > >>> V.Kadal Amutham
> > > >>> 919444360480
> > > >>> 914422396480
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt 
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> > > > On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
> > > >> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
> > > >>> design:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > 
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[janI]

On 5 April 2013 14:50, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  >wrote:
>
> > On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > Hello Everyone,
> > >
> > > Can I propose we move forward with this logo:
> http://imagebin.org/252847
> > > I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open' in
> the
> > > wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the lighter
> > blue.
> > > I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by the
> two
> > > O's as many people's designs had suggested.
> > > The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> >
> > mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> > forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now and
> > it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> >
> > We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> > start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in more
> > detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> > further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
> >
> >
> Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a form
> of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is not
> a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post and
> gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
> We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.  This
> all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members, users,
> experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur on
> their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
> decides in the end.
>

I have lost the overview of how many logos are in competition, since it do
not follow this theme intensively. I have seen at least one I really liked,
but to fair I think we should make one page (mwiki/cwiki or something else)
where everybody can see the competing logos side by side. The logos should
each be structured as Web-logo, software-logo and favicon (many seems to
forget this important part). With such a page the community can give their
opinion (I agree with rob, no vote just a poll), and the 3 best, go in a
second round, and of course pmc officially decide, but I am pretty sure
they will follow the opinion of the community.

I personally would not take the 3 best to a blog/facebook etcthis is
"our" product, and we the community decide how to present it to the
end-users.

Rgds
Jan I.

-Rob
>
>
>
> > Then start the final vote.
> >
> > Just my opinion
> >
> > Juergen
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png
> export.
> > >
> > > Samer
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be able
> to
> > >> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.  We
> > can
> > >> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
> > >>
> > >> Samer
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham 
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype,
> Twitter
> > >>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good
> > looking
> > >>> logo
> > >>>
> > >>> With Warm Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> V.Kadal Amutham
> > >>> 919444360480
> > >>> 914422396480
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> > > On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
> > >> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
> > >>> design:
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
> > >>>
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
> > >
> > > Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
> > > http://imagebin.org/252139
> > >
> >  maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something like the
> orb
> > >>> that
> >  can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons,
> stickers
> > >>> etc.
> > 
> >  Juergen
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it
> stand
> >  out
> > >> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think
> > >>> about
> >  the
> > >> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its
> > >>> own,
> >  which
> > >> is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
> > >>
> > >> Some other thoughts:
> > >>
> > >> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack
> of
> >  thought
> > >> given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
> > >> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere
> > >>> ra

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

> On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > Can I propose we move forward with this logo: http://imagebin.org/252847
> > I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open' in the
> > wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the lighter
> blue.
> > I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by the two
> > O's as many people's designs had suggested.
> > The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
>
> mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now and
> it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
>
> We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in more
> detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
>
>
Maybe call the initial thing a "poll" rather than a "vote".  It is a form
of testing, really, gathering feedback in a structured way.  But it is not
a decision-making process.  We could put the top 3 into a blog post and
gather feedback and preferences on blog, mailing list, facebook, etc.
We'll also get 'expert opinion' from those who understand logos well.  This
all gives the PMC some solid information, from community members, users,
experts, etc., to make a final decision.  Ideally these sources concur on
their preferences.  But there might be divergent views.  But the PMC
decides in the end.

-Rob



> Then start the final vote.
>
> Just my opinion
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
> >
> > The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png export.
> >
> > Samer
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be able to
> >> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.  We
> can
> >> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
> >>
> >> Samer
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter
> >>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good
> looking
> >>> logo
> >>>
> >>> With Warm Regards
> >>>
> >>> V.Kadal Amutham
> >>> 919444360480
> >>> 914422396480
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt  wrote:
> >>>
>  Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> > On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
> >> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
> >>> design:
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
> >
> > Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
> > http://imagebin.org/252139
> >
>  maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something like the orb
> >>> that
>  can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons, stickers
> >>> etc.
> 
>  Juergen
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand
>  out
> >> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think
> >>> about
>  the
> >> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its
> >>> own,
>  which
> >> is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
> >>
> >> Some other thoughts:
> >>
> >> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
>  thought
> >> given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
> >> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere
> >>> randomly
> >> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it
>  should not
> >> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning
>  (spacing
> >> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
> >>
> >
> >
> > There was a long discussion about the typography, starting with an
> > open typography, and also a more artistic.
> >
> >>
> >> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and
>  should be
> >> considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
>  nothing
> >> other than text.
> >>
> >> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might
>  be too
> >> different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
> >>
> >> Robin
> >>
> >> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we
>  start
> >>> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will
> >>> influence
> >>> those.

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Robin Fowler]

I agree with Juergen. There are multiple things I don't really like about the 
proposed logo (obviously there'll always be something someone doesn't like). I 
think it would be better to vote and then make an educated decision based on 
the results. I can't say I agree with one person choosing a logo, especially 
with the amount of good proposals we've had.

Robin


On 5 Apr 2013, at 08:33, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> Can I propose we move forward with this logo: http://imagebin.org/252847
>> I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open' in the
>> wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the lighter blue.
>> I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by the two
>> O's as many people's designs had suggested.
>> The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.
> 
> mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
> forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now and
> it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.
> 
> We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
> start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in more
> detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
> further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.
> 
> Then start the final vote.
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> Juergen
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png export.
>> 
>> Samer
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be able to
>>> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.  We can
>>> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
>>> 
>>> Samer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham  wrote:
>>> 
 A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter
 since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good looking
 logo
 
 With Warm Regards
 
 V.Kadal Amutham
 919444360480
 914422396480
 
 
 On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt  wrote:
 
> Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>> On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
>>> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
 design:
>>> 
>>> 
> 
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>> 
>> Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
>> http://imagebin.org/252139
>> 
> maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something like the orb
 that
> can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons, stickers
 etc.
> 
> Juergen
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand
> out
>>> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think
 about
> the
>>> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its
 own,
> which
>>> is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>>> 
>>> Some other thoughts:
>>> 
>>> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
> thought
>>> given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
>>> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere
 randomly
>>> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it
> should not
>>> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning
> (spacing
>>> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> There was a long discussion about the typography, starting with an
>> open typography, and also a more artistic.
>> 
>>> 
>>> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and
> should be
>>> considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
> nothing
>>> other than text.
>>> 
>>> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might
> be too
>>> different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>>> 
>>> Robin
>>> 
>>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>>> 
 Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we
> start
 work on the application artifacts or the website as it will
 influence
 those.
 
 I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an
> opportunity to
 change the face of OpenOffice.
 
 But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing
> rather
 than
 re-branding was the better path.
 
 So I would like to 

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 4/5/13 6:01 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Can I propose we move forward with this logo: http://imagebin.org/252847
> I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open' in the
> wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the lighter blue.
> I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by the two
> O's as many people's designs had suggested.
> The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.

mmh, I don't think that it would be a good approach if we simply move
forward with this one. We collected several proposals over weeks now and
it is still not easy to pick the serious ones.

We should summarize what we have, maybe drop the obvious bad ones and
start a first vote. the 3 best voted proposals will be reviewed in more
detail if they fulfill our requirements and if we can appropriate
further brand elements like icons, app icon, etc.

Then start the final vote.

Just my opinion

Juergen



> 
> The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png export.
> 
> Samer
> 
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be able to
>> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.  We can
>> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
>>
>> Samer
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham  wrote:
>>
>>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter
>>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good looking
>>> logo
>>>
>>> With Warm Regards
>>>
>>> V.Kadal Amutham
>>> 919444360480
>>> 914422396480
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt  wrote:
>>>
 Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
>> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
>>> design:
>>
>>

>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>
> Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
> http://imagebin.org/252139
>
 maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something like the orb
>>> that
 can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons, stickers
>>> etc.

 Juergen
>
>
>>
>> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand
 out
>> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think
>>> about
 the
>> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its
>>> own,
 which
>> is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>>
>> Some other thoughts:
>>
>> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
 thought
>> given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
>> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere
>>> randomly
>> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it
 should not
>> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning
 (spacing
>> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
>>
>
>
> There was a long discussion about the typography, starting with an
> open typography, and also a more artistic.
>
>>
>> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and
 should be
>> considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
 nothing
>> other than text.
>>
>> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might
 be too
>> different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>>
>>> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we
 start
>>> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will
>>> influence
>>> those.
>>>
>>> I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an
 opportunity to
>>> change the face of OpenOffice.
>>>
>>> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing
 rather
>>> than
>>> re-branding was the better path.
>>>
>>> So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give
>>> us
>>> strong
>>> arguments to picking a logo.
>>>
>>> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
>>> Here are reasons:
>>>
>>> - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a
>>> history
 of
>>> being recognized.
>>> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
>>> platforms,
>>> screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of
>>> today,
>>> recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
>>> - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

Hello Everyone,

Can I propose we move forward with this logo: http://imagebin.org/252847
I kept the current official blue for both the logo and word 'Open' in the
wordmark because the word 'Open' gets less emphasis with the lighter blue.
I also gave the text Apache a placement inside the valley made by the two
O's as many people's designs had suggested.
The font is Roboto Condensed which is Apache 2.0 Licensed.

The source file is an SVG created in Inkscape. The above is a png export.

Samer

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Samer Mansour  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be able to
> come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.  We can
> proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.
>
> Samer
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham  wrote:
>
>> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter
>> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good looking
>> logo
>>
>> With Warm Regards
>>
>> V.Kadal Amutham
>> 919444360480
>> 914422396480
>>
>>
>> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt  wrote:
>>
>> > Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>> > > On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
>> > > > Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
>> design:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>> > >
>> > > Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
>> > > http://imagebin.org/252139
>> > >
>> > maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something like the orb
>> that
>> > can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons, stickers
>> etc.
>> >
>> > Juergen
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand
>> > out
>> > > > from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think
>> about
>> > the
>> > > > form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its
>> own,
>> > which
>> > > > is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>> > > >
>> > > > Some other thoughts:
>> > > >
>> > > > One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
>> > thought
>> > > > given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
>> > > > afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere
>> randomly
>> > > > above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it
>> > should not
>> > > > look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning
>> > (spacing
>> > > > between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > There was a long discussion about the typography, starting with an
>> > > open typography, and also a more artistic.
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and
>> > should be
>> > > > considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
>> > nothing
>> > > > other than text.
>> > > >
>> > > > I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might
>> > be too
>> > > > different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>> > > >
>> > > > Robin
>> > > >
>> > > > On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we
>> > start
>> > > > > work on the application artifacts or the website as it will
>> influence
>> > > > > those.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an
>> > opportunity to
>> > > > > change the face of OpenOffice.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing
>> > rather
>> > > > > than
>> > > > > re-branding was the better path.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give
>> us
>> > > > > strong
>> > > > > arguments to picking a logo.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
>> > > > > Here are reasons:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a
>> history
>> > of
>> > > > > being recognized.
>> > > > > - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
>> > > > > platforms,
>> > > > > screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of
>> today,
>> > > > > recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
>> > > > > - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a
>> > square
>> > > > > and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
>> > > > > - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo.
>> > Who
>> > > > > want
>> > > > > to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment
>> when
>> > i
>> > > > > saw
>> > > > > Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex
>> and
>> > >

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

Hello,

I will wait a few more days but it sounds like the group will be able to
come to a consensus on refreshing the orb in some way or another.  We can
proceed with finalizing this logo proposal if no one objectifies.

Samer

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Kadal Amutham  wrote:

> A flat logo may be good for  Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter
> since they have money power to promote. What AOO needs is a good looking
> logo
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 30 March 2013 18:17, Juergen Schmidt  wrote:
>
> > Am Samstag, 30. März 2013 um 03:05 schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> > > On 3/29/13, Robin Fowler  wrote:
> > > > Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
> design:
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
> > >
> > > Here is a tweak, without the orb. Looks pretty olympic.
> > > http://imagebin.org/252139
> > >
> > maybe I am confused but I thought that we want something like the orb
> that
> > can be used standalone with the name. For ample for buttons, stickers
> etc.
> >
> > Juergen
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand
> > out
> > > > from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think about
> > the
> > > > form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its
> own,
> > which
> > > > is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
> > > >
> > > > Some other thoughts:
> > > >
> > > > One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
> > thought
> > > > given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
> > > > afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere
> randomly
> > > > above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it
> > should not
> > > > look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning
> > (spacing
> > > > between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There was a long discussion about the typography, starting with an
> > > open typography, and also a more artistic.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and
> > should be
> > > > considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
> > nothing
> > > > other than text.
> > > >
> > > > I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might
> > be too
> > > > different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
> > > >
> > > > Robin
> > > >
> > > > On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we
> > start
> > > > > work on the application artifacts or the website as it will
> influence
> > > > > those.
> > > > >
> > > > > I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an
> > opportunity to
> > > > > change the face of OpenOffice.
> > > > >
> > > > > But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing
> > rather
> > > > > than
> > > > > re-branding was the better path.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us
> > > > > strong
> > > > > arguments to picking a logo.
> > > > >
> > > > > I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
> > > > > Here are reasons:
> > > > >
> > > > > - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a
> history
> > of
> > > > > being recognized.
> > > > > - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
> > > > > platforms,
> > > > > screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of
> today,
> > > > > recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
> > > > > - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a
> > square
> > > > > and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
> > > > > - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo.
> > Who
> > > > > want
> > > > > to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment
> when
> > i
> > > > > saw
> > > > > Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex
> and
> > > > > completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Samer Mansour
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > http://es.openoffice.org
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > > F

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Andrea Pescetti]

Robin Fowler wrote:

Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new
design:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
 Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand
out from the microsoft brand.


I tend to prefer the orb in its non-flat version, but maybe that is just 
because I've always seen it this way and I quite like it as an element. 
I find a little bit confusing, in your last proposal, that it has two 
prominent emblems (the orb and a feather). Currently the orb is clearly 
the one and only emblem for OpenOffice. For the rest, it is a great 
proposal like others (including your other one).



One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
thought given to typography.


I think the process will allow us to progressively converge and 
fine-tune the proposals when needed. So if a proposal is promising but 
would look better with the proper fonts/kerning then we can improve it 
incrementally.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Dave Fisher]

True. What we come up with should be reviewed by trademarks@

I doubt it will be a problem. Several projects have versions of the feather in 
their logos.

Here is a very stylized one: http://directory.apache.org/

Here is a whimsical version with "The Feather": http://forrest.apache.org/

Regards,
Dave

On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> If you go with a stylized feather, please check with trademarks@ a.o.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 13:52
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo
> 
> 
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Robin Fowler 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new design:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>>> 
>>> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand out
>>> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think about the
>>> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its own,
>>> which is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I like this one too in addition to the other "flat" designs. My tendency
>> would be give "APACHE"  a bit more emphasis maybe with a more
>> blocky/heavier font. Size-wize it seems about right. I know this is not a
>> good explanation.
>> 
>> And, I like the feather but think maybe it needs to be a bit smaller from
>> top to bottom in relation to the orb, and perhaps a slightly different
>> color unless that causes clashes/concerns. Really I like this one quite a
>> bit! And I have enjoyed your other work also. Really I amazed at the amount
>> of creativity and quality in these designs!
> 
> Agreed and the wiki has some very nice progressions. I think that there is 
> room for a large version Orb w/subtly shaded landmasses that would work well 
> in large format versions of the logo.
> 
>> 
>> Some other thoughts:
>>> 
>>> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
>>> thought given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
>>> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere randomly
>>> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it should not
>>> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning (spacing
>>> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
> 
> As I shrink the Logo image to smaller sizes. I think that the LogoType gets 
> too small too quickly.
> 
> But one of the beauties of this kind of logo design is that you can set a 
> minimum size for the type and have that be larger than the minimum size for 
> the orb/feather combination.
> 
> I also like Chris R's logos - #13.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>>> 
>>> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and should
>>> be considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
>>> nothing other than text.
>>> 
>>> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might be
>>> too different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>>> 
>>> Robin
>>> 
>>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
>>>> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence
>>> those.
>>>> 
>>>> I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
>>>> change the face of OpenOffice.
>>>> 
>>>> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather
>>> than
>>>> re-branding was the better path.
>>>> 
>>>> So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us
>>> strong
>>>> arguments to picking a logo.
>>>> 
>>>> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
>>>> Here are reasons:
>>>> 
>>>> - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
>>>> being recognized.
>>>> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
>>> platforms,
>>>> screens

RE: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

If you go with a stylized feather, please check with trademarks@ a.o.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 13:52
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo


On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Robin Fowler 
> wrote:
> 
>> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new design:
>> 
>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>> 
>> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand out
>> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think about the
>> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its own,
>> which is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>> 
>> 
> I like this one too in addition to the other "flat" designs. My tendency
> would be give "APACHE"  a bit more emphasis maybe with a more
> blocky/heavier font. Size-wize it seems about right. I know this is not a
> good explanation.
> 
> And, I like the feather but think maybe it needs to be a bit smaller from
> top to bottom in relation to the orb, and perhaps a slightly different
> color unless that causes clashes/concerns. Really I like this one quite a
> bit! And I have enjoyed your other work also. Really I amazed at the amount
> of creativity and quality in these designs!

Agreed and the wiki has some very nice progressions. I think that there is room 
for a large version Orb w/subtly shaded landmasses that would work well in 
large format versions of the logo.

> 
> Some other thoughts:
>> 
>> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
>> thought given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
>> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere randomly
>> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it should not
>> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning (spacing
>> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.

As I shrink the Logo image to smaller sizes. I think that the LogoType gets too 
small too quickly.

But one of the beauties of this kind of logo design is that you can set a 
minimum size for the type and have that be larger than the minimum size for the 
orb/feather combination.

I also like Chris R's logos - #13.

Regards,
Dave

>> 
>> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and should
>> be considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
>> nothing other than text.
>> 
>> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might be
>> too different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>> 
>> Robin
>> 
>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>> 
>>> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
>>> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence
>> those.
>>> 
>>> I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
>>> change the face of OpenOffice.
>>> 
>>> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather
>> than
>>> re-branding was the better path.
>>> 
>>> So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us
>> strong
>>> arguments to picking a logo.
>>> 
>>> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
>>> Here are reasons:
>>> 
>>> - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
>>> being recognized.
>>> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
>> platforms,
>>> screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of today,
>>> recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
>>> - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a square
>>> and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
>>> - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo. Who
>> want
>>> to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
>>> 
>>> Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment when i
>> saw
>>> Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex and
>>> completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?
>

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Dave Fisher]

On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Robin Fowler 
> wrote:
> 
>> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new design:
>> 
>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>> 
>> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand out
>> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think about the
>> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its own,
>> which is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>> 
>> 
> I like this one too in addition to the other "flat" designs. My tendency
> would be give "APACHE"  a bit more emphasis maybe with a more
> blocky/heavier font. Size-wize it seems about right. I know this is not a
> good explanation.
> 
> And, I like the feather but think maybe it needs to be a bit smaller from
> top to bottom in relation to the orb, and perhaps a slightly different
> color unless that causes clashes/concerns. Really I like this one quite a
> bit! And I have enjoyed your other work also. Really I amazed at the amount
> of creativity and quality in these designs!

Agreed and the wiki has some very nice progressions. I think that there is room 
for a large version Orb w/subtly shaded landmasses that would work well in 
large format versions of the logo.

> 
> Some other thoughts:
>> 
>> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
>> thought given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
>> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere randomly
>> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it should not
>> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning (spacing
>> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.

As I shrink the Logo image to smaller sizes. I think that the LogoType gets too 
small too quickly.

But one of the beauties of this kind of logo design is that you can set a 
minimum size for the type and have that be larger than the minimum size for the 
orb/feather combination.

I also like Chris R's logos - #13.

Regards,
Dave

>> 
>> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and should
>> be considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
>> nothing other than text.
>> 
>> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might be
>> too different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>> 
>> Robin
>> 
>> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>> 
>>> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
>>> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence
>> those.
>>> 
>>> I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
>>> change the face of OpenOffice.
>>> 
>>> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather
>> than
>>> re-branding was the better path.
>>> 
>>> So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us
>> strong
>>> arguments to picking a logo.
>>> 
>>> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
>>> Here are reasons:
>>> 
>>> - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
>>> being recognized.
>>> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
>> platforms,
>>> screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of today,
>>> recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
>>> - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a square
>>> and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
>>> - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo. Who
>> want
>>> to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
>>> 
>>> Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment when i
>> saw
>>> Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex and
>>> completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?
>>> 
>>> Samer Mansour
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> MzK
> 
> "Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."


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Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kay Schenk]

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:

> Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new design:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662
>
> Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand out
> from the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think about the
> form itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its own,
> which is one reason using the apache feather is a good idea.
>
>
I like this one too in addition to the other "flat" designs. My tendency
would be give "APACHE"  a bit more emphasis maybe with a more
blocky/heavier font. Size-wize it seems about right. I know this is not a
good explanation.

And, I like the feather but think maybe it needs to be a bit smaller from
top to bottom in relation to the orb, and perhaps a slightly different
color unless that causes clashes/concerns. Really I like this one quite a
bit! And I have enjoyed your other work also. Really I amazed at the amount
of creativity and quality in these designs!

Some other thoughts:
>
> One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of
> thought given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an
> afterthought, in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere randomly
> above 'openoffice'. Think of what you want the logo to imply, it should not
> look disorganised. Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning (spacing
> between letters) which could be optimised on some of the proposals.
>
> This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and should
> be considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of
> nothing other than text.
>
> I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might be
> too different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.
>
> Robin
>
> On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:
>
> > Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
> > work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence
> those.
> >
> > I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
> > change the face of OpenOffice.
> >
> > But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather
> than
> > re-branding was the better path.
> >
> > So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us
> strong
> > arguments to picking a logo.
> >
> > I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
> > Here are reasons:
> >
> > - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
> > being recognized.
> > - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social
> platforms,
> > screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of today,
> > recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
> > - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a square
> > and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
> > - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo. Who
> want
> > to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
> >
> > Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment when i
> saw
> > Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex and
> > completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.
> >
> > Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?
> >
> > Samer Mansour
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 

MzK

"Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."

Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Robin Fowler]

Due to the opinions I've seen so far I've decided to make a new design:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27846912/OO_4_final_design_Robin-Fowler.jpg?version=1&modificationDate=1364582663662

Overall it has a flat look and yet still some depth to make it stand out from 
the microsoft brand. I think it is also important to think about the form 
itself, the silhouette should ideally be recognisable on its own, which is one 
reason using the apache feather is a good idea.

Some other thoughts:

One of the problems i see with a lot of the proposals is the lack of thought 
given to typography. It seems the text is just slapped on as an afterthought, 
in many cases the 'apache' is floating somewhere randomly above 'openoffice'. 
Think of what you want the logo to imply, it should not look disorganised. 
Another thing worth pointing out is the kerning (spacing between letters) which 
could be optimised on some of the proposals.

This is an extremely important aspect of the whole logo design and should be 
considered when choosing a design. After all, many logos consist of nothing 
other than text.

I also want to say i really like Vasilis Xenofontos design. It might be too 
different from the current, but it's a very good logo imo.

Robin
 
On 28 Mar 2013, at 12:38, Samer Mansour  wrote:

> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence those.
> 
> I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
> change the face of OpenOffice.
> 
> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather than
> re-branding was the better path.
> 
> So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us strong
> arguments to picking a logo.
> 
> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
> Here are reasons:
> 
> - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
> being recognized.
> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social platforms,
> screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of today,
> recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
> - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a square
> and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
> - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo. Who want
> to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
> 
> Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment when i saw
> Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex and
> completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.
> 
> Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?
> 
> Samer Mansour


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Re: Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Kay Schenk]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Samer Mansour  wrote:

> Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
> work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence
> those.
>
> I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
> change the face of OpenOffice.
>
> But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather than
> re-branding was the better path.
>
> So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us strong
> arguments to picking a logo.
>
> I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
> Here are reasons:
>
> - It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
> being recognized.
> - Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social platforms,
> screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of today,
> recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
> - This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a square
> and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
> - A middle ground for community members who like the current logo. Who want
> to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.
>
> Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment when i saw
> Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex and
> completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.
>
> Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?
>
> Samer Mansour
>

>From my perspective, I ALWAYS think that simple is the most beautiful. :)

OK, essentially are you saying that of the logos (concepts) presented on:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations

that you are actually thinking more like Sections. 11 and 13?

This kind of approach would certainly simplify printed brochures and other
marketing items.
And, for display on mobile devices, this kind of style might work better.

It's also true that it's more identifiable with what we have now.

So, I am in agreement with your thoughts.


-- 

MzK

"Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."

Conversation: Pick A Logo

[Samer Mansour]

Robin brought up a good point that we should pick a logo before we start
work on the application artifacts or the website as it will influence those.

I initially was excited that we could have a new logo, an opportunity to
change the face of OpenOffice.

But after I saw Chris R. proposal I convinced myself refreshing rather than
re-branding was the better path.

So I would like to start a conversation that will hopefully give us strong
arguments to picking a logo.

I already mentioned I liked the flat logo.
Here are reasons:

- It is very similar to the current logo and that logo has a history of
being recognized.
- Flat is 'in', easily recognizable on and works well on social platforms,
screens and print media. (Think corporate and product logos of today,
recently Pepsi, Domino's, Microsoft, Skype, Twitter)
- This logo can be severed from the word mark to make it fit in a square
and still carry the branding image. Icons, site, etc.
- A middle ground for community members who like the current logo. Who want
to achieve a new image of 4.0 without tossing history.

Looking back, we had lots of ideas but it only took me a moment when i saw
Chris r.'s proposal to realize the logo didn't need to be complex and
completely new. That simple was actually beautiful.

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree (and your solution is)?

Samer Mansour