Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
Hi > On 04 Sep 15, at 07:42, Roberto Galoppiniwrote: >> >> Here at dev@ we can work up a status report that anyone could deliver and >> also development of any contributions to the interoperability testing that >> would be useful for cross-implementation demonstration/confirmation in >> those sessions. >> >> I am happy to cooperate in any way I can in the development of such >> materials. I trust Roberto will continue to participate on the calls >> (since they tend to be at 6am in my local time). >> > > I will surely do if any will be set, but I guess for this ODF-Plugfest > we're done. If someone - not me, as per my message on another thread I > can't commit to this now - is willing to go, we better give heads up to the > organizers so that a talk of us can be added to the agenda. > > Roberto > Status, then, is: * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. * We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at the upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly imminent, 15& 16 September of this year. * Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot of time into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to have my travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s bound to be more expensive than someone coming from Europe. - Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the Oasis TC, where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also encounter the same Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there may be issues with him accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I was with large corporations.) Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced its ODF desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental entities in other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards ODF or at least away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations and toward what could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF plugfest has several of the governmental practitioners presenting or attending. Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the would confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead, dying, and worse, stifle the living communities. I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would hate for them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first that has taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not come to an end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did. Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer, then let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants to tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is willing to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this? Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and cool, that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has voted on doing so. Hence the PMC vote. -louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
It is not clear to me what is being discussed here. Can we separate out the parts, please? 1. There is discussion of sending someone to participate in the ODF Plugfest to be held on 2015-09/15-16, 11 days from now. That includes a request for travel funding. 2. It is not clear to me exactly what that participation would be. Is it only to participate in status and not testing? If it is status, it appears that any status presentation is likely part of an agenda item to be led by Gijs Hillenius of OSOR. See <http://plugtest.opendocsociety.org/doku.php?id=plugfests:201509_thehague:info>. The topic is "ODF in the market place." That is an interesting topic if it remains the focus. I'm not certain what we know about in that respect. I definitely think it would be useful to have concrete information about that specific topic with respect to Apache OpenOffice. If we figured it out, we could offer a slide or two without having to be there. Would that suffice? 3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is being spoken of. I don't recall the ASF and certainly not the AOO Project being participants/sponsors of the OpenDocs Society. Am I mistaken? Is a draft available? 4. Also on this thread, there is some question about payment. If this is with regard to sponsoring this event, or being a sponsor in the production of a flyer, the timing is very short here and it seems to me that the window may have closed. Also, please note that today is the early-start beginning of a major 3-day Holiday weekend in the United States. We must move deliberately but inclusively. Please clarify, - Dennis -Original Message- From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 Hi [ ... ] Status, then, is: * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. * We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at the upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly imminent, 15& 16 September of this year. * Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot of time into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to have my travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s bound to be more expensive than someone coming from Europe. - Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the Oasis TC, where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also encounter the same Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there may be issues with him accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I was with large corporations.) Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced its ODF desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental entities in other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards ODF or at least away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations and toward what could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF plugfest has several of the governmental practitioners presenting or attending. Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the would confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead, dying, and worse, stifle the living communities. I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would hate for them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first that has taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not come to an end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did. Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer, then let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants to tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is willing to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this? Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and cool, that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has voted on doing so. Hence the PMC vote. -louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
Comments inline; Roberto, feel free… > On 04 Sep 15, at 13:10, Dennis E. Hamilton <orc...@apache.org> wrote: > > It is not clear to me what is being discussed here. Can we separate out the > parts, please? > > 1. There is discussion of sending someone to participate in the ODF Plugfest > to be held on 2015-09/15-16, 11 days from now. That includes a request for > travel funding. Yes. Honestly, tho this could be an important event, the rush and cost are such that unless someone is closer to the event—i.e., not on the wrong side of the Atlantic—the cost would seem prohibitive, especially if my presence would only be to relay status. > > 2. It is not clear to me exactly what that participation would be. Quite. > Is it only to participate in status and not testing? If I were to go, that would in fact be the case: status not testing. However, there is also the point that I’ve been trying to make (and I think Roberto, too) about the optics—the appearance—of our presence or nonpresence. > If it is status, it appears that any status presentation is likely part of > an agenda item to be led by Gijs Hillenius of OSOR. Yes. > See > <http://plugtest.opendocsociety.org/doku.php?id=plugfests:201509_thehague:info>. > The topic is "ODF in the market place." That is an interesting topic if it > remains the focus. I'm not certain what we know about in that respect. I > definitely think it would be useful to have concrete information about that > specific topic with respect to Apache OpenOffice. If we figured it out, we > could offer a slide or two without having to be there. Would that suffice? Yes, but given the malleability of things, I’d guess that we could shape the topic to a degree. By concrete information, I am guessing you have in mind data we can cite indicating uptake or usage of AOO and thus of our implementation of ODF. To this point, Rob did point out that we could re-do our survey, which looked at preferred open source office suites. One could also conceivably add more questions illuminating AOO’s market currency. (Eg, percentage in any sector or other useful data points that suggest a picture of how and where AOO is being used. We did this a long while ago, at the Oasis ODF Adoption TC.) > > 3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is being > spoken of. I don't recall the ASF and certainly not the AOO Project being > participants/sponsors of the OpenDocs Society. Am I mistaken? Is a draft > available? You are not mistaken as far as I know regarding sponsorship. I think a draft is available and was sent by Basil, but…. I think the money here, which we have some discretionary control over, independent of ASF—perhaps Andrea can explain it better—would go for printing. But: this, too is coming thick and fast. I mean the call for action on this matter. > > 4. Also on this thread, there is some question about payment. If this is > with regard to sponsoring this event, or being a sponsor in the production of > a flyer, the timing is very short here and it seems to me that the window may > have closed. > > Also, please note that today is the early-start beginning of a major 3-day > Holiday weekend in the United States. We must move deliberately but > inclusively. > > Please clarify, Doubtless Roberto or Andrea can shed more light. I had been aware of the event but had not planned on going before, as it interacted (and still does) with a prior personal engagement. But the event does strike me as potential important. But not so important as to cause the sky to fall, should we not make it. The status report Gijs would read out is good. But my point that being there and meeting the government developers and representatives, as well as the others involved, would send a strong signal to an admittedly small but probably significant group. But Roberto, who went last time, and Rob, who’s gone many times, can probably evaluate the scenario better than I. And we can also meet the principals elsewhere. Like at ACEU. Indeed, inviting them to the event and then holding much more informed and less rushed meetings there, would be good; but it would depend on them being there. best louis > > - Dennis > > -Original Message----- > From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 > > Hi > > [ ... ] > > > > Status, then, is: > > * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. > Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it > may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. > > * We are agreed that it would be good
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
e I would have joined the technical sessions, but again our understanding of how AOO is or is not compliant with the finally approved ODF 1.2 is little at best. To all this we should add the concerns and questions rightfully raised by Dennis, here and on the other thread. I would favor us to get a hold of where are we in respect of such a standard, and plan to join the next Plugfest. My two cents. Roberto > > best > louis > > > > > > > - Dennis > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27 > > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 > > > > Hi > > > > [ ... ] > > > > > > > > Status, then, is: > > > > * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. > Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it > may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. > > > > * We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at > the upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly > imminent, 15& 16 September of this year. > > > > * Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot > of time into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to > have my travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s > bound to be more expensive than someone coming from Europe. > > > > - Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the > Oasis TC, where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also > encounter the same Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there > may be issues with him accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I > was with large corporations.) > > > > Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced > its ODF desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental > entities in other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards > ODF or at least away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations > and toward what could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF > plugfest has several of the governmental practitioners presenting or > attending. > > > > Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the > would confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead, > dying, and worse, stifle the living communities. > > > > > > I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would > hate for them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence > > > > But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first > that has taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not > come to an end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did. > > > > Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer, > then let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants > to tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is > willing to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this? > > > > Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and > cool, that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has > voted on doing so. Hence the PMC vote. > > > > -louis > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
> On 04 Sep 15, at 16:05, Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > 2015-09-04 19:39 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts <lui...@gmail.com>: > >> Comments inline; Roberto, feel free… >> >> > > Actually I didn't go since the Orvieto Plugfest, that is almost 10 years > ago. Anyway, I believe we missed the opportunity to come up with something > valuable and interesting for the agenda, unless someone has a different > idea. If I would have gone I would have joined the technical sessions, but > again our understanding of how AOO is or is not compliant with the finally > approved ODF 1.2 is little at best. > Interesting; I had the impression you’d gone to the most recent. Then, it would seem the case Rob and I have gone to more, as I’ve attended most of them, though not since 2012 Brussels. > To all this we should add the concerns and questions rightfully raised by > Dennis, here and on the other thread. Y. > > I would favor us to get a hold of where are we in respect of such a > standard, and plan to join the next Plugfest. I would go further and suggest we shape the content of our future. Not spectate. > > My two cents. I raise you a loony. (Loony: the Canadian dollar but probably less than that, given the plunging value of "money"; also a bird and useful adjective indicating craziness.) > > Roberto > > >> >> best >> louis >> >> >> >>> >>> - Dennis >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27 >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> [ ... ] >>> >>> >>> >>> Status, then, is: >>> >>> * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. >> Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it >> may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. >>> >>> * We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at >> the upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly >> imminent, 15& 16 September of this year. >>> >>> * Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot >> of time into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to >> have my travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s >> bound to be more expensive than someone coming from Europe. >>> >>> - Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the >> Oasis TC, where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also >> encounter the same Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there >> may be issues with him accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I >> was with large corporations.) >>> >>> Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced >> its ODF desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental >> entities in other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards >> ODF or at least away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations >> and toward what could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF >> plugfest has several of the governmental practitioners presenting or >> attending. >>> >>> Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the >> would confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead, >> dying, and worse, stifle the living communities. >>> >>> >>> I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would >> hate for them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence >>> >>> But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first >> that has taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not >> come to an end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did. >>> >>> Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer, >> then let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants >> to tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is >> willing to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this? >>> >>> Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and >> cool, that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has >> voted on doing so. Hence the PMC vote.
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
On 04/09/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: 3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is being spoken of. There were three bullet items in my mail. If this wasn't clear, items 2. and 3. referred to the flyer. I called it a "leaflet" but that was it. See http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg24775.html I see the other thread has now done more progress, so I recommend that we simply keep discussing on that one. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 (was RE: [NOMINATION] Dennis Hamilton ... )
On 1 August 2015 at 19:23, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: jan i wrote: On Saturday, August 1, 2015, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Well, the project does have funds to spend on events and they have to be spent, so funding is only a matter of a discussion/vote/consensus here. Don't worry about this. We used to have a rule of 250eur if I remember right, travelling from US is likely to be 1000+ We've never had generic provisions, since all events are specific. I think that limit was for FOSDEM. Moreover, we never got to the step of actually reimbursing anyone, since nobody ever (me, you, anybody else) asked for travel reimbursement in the end... If we set some guidelines, it would make sense to have at least a recommendation to prefer short-range travel. I saw the 250EUR as generic, we briefly discussed it for at least another event, but you are right it never came to payment time. I would like to have guidelines, but not really event specific, but a max. pr person pr event and that is how I saw the 250EUR. We do not need strong guidelines, but something should be made, to ensure fairness (e.g. the 250EUR would not have paid in full my last trip to FOSDEM) and I totally agree with short-range travel. rgds jan i Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 (was RE: [NOMINATION] Dennis Hamilton ... )
On 01/08/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: I think if we create a portfolio of tests and a few slides on the status of AOO by mid-September, anyone could be present as an AOO participant. So in terms of tests we would need, for example, ODF documents exported by Google Docs (or IBM Docs, or whatever claims to produce ODF) that do not render as expected in OpenOffice? I assume this interoperability (seeing the type of event) is meant exclusively in ODF format, right? I.e., nothing related to OOXML for example. I do not have the means to travel to The Netherlands for this event. Well, the project does have funds to spend on events and they have to be spent, so funding is only a matter of a discussion/vote/consensus here. Don't worry about this. I am willing to go, although it would be valuable to at least have someone more technically involved around interoperability testing. I don't think it is necessary to have someone be an official Sure, any properly skilled contributor can do. Is there a limit on the number of attendees? You could also be 2 people, Amsterdam is easily reachable by anyone in Europe. I find this to be an interesting event, especially as I am preparing an ApacheCon talk somewhat related to this; but it overlaps with another event and I won't be able to attend. I trust Roberto will continue to participate on the calls I haven't understood if Roberto is going to attend too, but a stronger presence at technical and non-technical events can only be beneficial. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
On reflection, I need to be here in Seattle for my wife's already-scheduled departure to Italy on September 17. My attendance at this Plugfest is not an option, even with coverage of my travel and expenses. Sorry. I would have enjoyed attending were it feasible. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2015 07:29 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 (was RE: [NOMINATION] Dennis Hamilton ... ) On 01/08/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: I do not have the means to travel to The Netherlands for this event. Well, the project does have funds to spend on events and they have to be spent, so funding is only a matter of a discussion/vote/consensus here. Don't worry about this. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 (was RE: [NOMINATION] Dennis Hamilton ... )
jan i wrote: On Saturday, August 1, 2015, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Well, the project does have funds to spend on events and they have to be spent, so funding is only a matter of a discussion/vote/consensus here. Don't worry about this. We used to have a rule of 250eur if I remember right, travelling from US is likely to be 1000+ We've never had generic provisions, since all events are specific. I think that limit was for FOSDEM. Moreover, we never got to the step of actually reimbursing anyone, since nobody ever (me, you, anybody else) asked for travel reimbursement in the end... If we set some guidelines, it would make sense to have at least a recommendation to prefer short-range travel. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 (was RE: [NOMINATION] Dennis Hamilton ... )
On Saturday, August 1, 2015, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 01/08/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: I think if we create a portfolio of tests and a few slides on the status of AOO by mid-September, anyone could be present as an AOO participant. So in terms of tests we would need, for example, ODF documents exported by Google Docs (or IBM Docs, or whatever claims to produce ODF) that do not render as expected in OpenOffice? I assume this interoperability (seeing the type of event) is meant exclusively in ODF format, right? I.e., nothing related to OOXML for example. I do not have the means to travel to The Netherlands for this event. Well, the project does have funds to spend on events and they have to be spent, so funding is only a matter of a discussion/vote/consensus here. Don't worry about this. We used to have a rule of 250eur if I remember right, travelling from US is likely to be 1000+ I am willing to go, although it would be valuable to at least have someone more technically involved around interoperability testing. I don't think it is necessary to have someone be an official Sure, any properly skilled contributor can do. Is there a limit on the number of attendees? You could also be 2 people, Amsterdam is easily reachable by anyone in Europe. I find this to be an interesting event, especially as I am preparing an ApacheCon talk somewhat related to this; but it overlaps with another event and I won't be able to attend. I trust Roberto will continue to participate on the calls I haven't understood if Roberto is going to attend too, but a stronger presence at technical and non-technical events can only be beneficial. +1 rgds jan i Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.