Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal [and 1 more messages]

2011-12-22 Thread Marijn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 21-12-11 18:57, Eli Barzilay wrote:
 Since I'm talking, I might as well mention my personal opinion
 on the strong points of racket (besides the (non-)obvious ones
 of having advanced macros, first-class continuations and all that
 kind of stuff) since these might be worth mentioning on the front
 page: [...gui...] [...web-server...]
 
 Yeah, including these things would be good, if someone can compose
 a similarly short and understandable and not-too-buzz-wordy text
 out of them.

Right, so let's brainstorm a bit.

GUI:
cross-platform native GUI library
unified native GUI programming for Windows, OS X and Linux
native cross-platform widgets
cross-platform graphics
cross-platform graphical library
that supports writing cross-platform native GUI applications

Web:
continuation-enabled web server
direct style web programming
direct style web programming with continuation-enabled web server
non-inverted web programming
writing web applications as normal programs
that let's you write web applications as normal programs
that let's you write web applications without inverting control flow

Racket:
Racket is a unique general-purpose programming language with strong
support for domain-specific languages, that enables you to do unified
native GUI programming for Windows, OS X and Linux, and let's you
write web applications without inverting control flow.

Who's next? ;P

Marijn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk7y8iAACgkQp/VmCx0OL2wuOACfS96l5P6nDCcJwW9V0R0O35Qp
Y7wAnioWjgJmXru3m3jt8GOZy4bKq2YG
=u51W
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-21 Thread Marijn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 20-12-11 21:28, Eli Barzilay wrote:
 | platform for language design and implementation.
 
 That means almost nothing to most people.  Even something like
 Racket is a Programmable Language works better...  I don't think
 that there's a way to make it clear in a short sentence, but if
 there is, it should most definitely get included.

Some while ago you and me talked on irc about a short one-sentence
description of the racket package for Gentoo. IIRC the conclusion was
that you weren't unhappy with me using:

Racket is a general-purpose programming language with strong support
for domain-specific languages.

Maybe that is a good start to finally improve over just Racket is a
programming language..

Since I'm talking, I might as well mention my personal opinion on the
strong points of racket (besides the (non-)obvious ones of having
advanced macros, first-class continuations and all that kind of stuff)
since these might be worth mentioning on the front page:

*) The cross-platform native GUI library is a big part of why I'm
interested in Racket at all. It looks like the plot library makes this
already awesome (and I believe still quite unique) feature even more
awesome (at least for the applications that I'm interested in these days).

*) The support for writing web applications in ordinary direct style.
Though I haven't really tried it out yet, if the times comes I would
definitely try racket for this first.

Marijn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk7xoPkACgkQp/VmCx0OL2x6QACfdjGoHJZzG7JTyhpcy5nMig6x
2ZgAn0W4eD0xf6DYTWh+xkMxxamJcTTC
=1LGq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-21 Thread Matthias Felleisen

I agree that we need to go beyond 'Racket is a programming language' 
as cute as it may be. 

I am surprised Eli objected to your proposed sentence, because it is 
a good, solid one-sentence description.

Then again, I suspect all of us know that Racket is a chameleon and
we are therefore disinclined to agree when someone says 'it is red'. 
Because tomorrow it might be green. 

-- Matthias



On Dec 21, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Marijn wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 20-12-11 21:28, Eli Barzilay wrote:
 | platform for language design and implementation.
 
 That means almost nothing to most people.  Even something like
 Racket is a Programmable Language works better...  I don't think
 that there's a way to make it clear in a short sentence, but if
 there is, it should most definitely get included.
 
 Some while ago you and me talked on irc about a short one-sentence
 description of the racket package for Gentoo. IIRC the conclusion was
 that you weren't unhappy with me using:
 
 Racket is a general-purpose programming language with strong support
 for domain-specific languages.
 
 Maybe that is a good start to finally improve over just Racket is a
 programming language..
 
 Since I'm talking, I might as well mention my personal opinion on the
 strong points of racket (besides the (non-)obvious ones of having
 advanced macros, first-class continuations and all that kind of stuff)
 since these might be worth mentioning on the front page:
 
 *) The cross-platform native GUI library is a big part of why I'm
 interested in Racket at all. It looks like the plot library makes this
 already awesome (and I believe still quite unique) feature even more
 awesome (at least for the applications that I'm interested in these days).
 
 *) The support for writing web applications in ordinary direct style.
 Though I haven't really tried it out yet, if the times comes I would
 definitely try racket for this first.
 
 Marijn
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
 iEYEARECAAYFAk7xoPkACgkQp/VmCx0OL2x6QACfdjGoHJZzG7JTyhpcy5nMig6x
 2ZgAn0W4eD0xf6DYTWh+xkMxxamJcTTC
 =1LGq
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal [and 1 more messages]

2011-12-21 Thread Eli Barzilay
9 hours ago, Marijn wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 20-12-11 21:28, Eli Barzilay wrote:
  | platform for language design and implementation.
  
  That means almost nothing to most people.  Even something like
  Racket is a Programmable Language works better...  I don't think
  that there's a way to make it clear in a short sentence, but if
  there is, it should most definitely get included.
 
 Some while ago you and me talked on irc about a short one-sentence
 description of the racket package for Gentoo. IIRC the conclusion
 was that you weren't unhappy with me using:
 
 Racket is a general-purpose programming language with strong support
 for domain-specific languages.
 
 Maybe that is a good start to finally improve over just Racket is a
 programming language..

Yes, I forgot about that -- IMO it's definitely more approachable.

(And yes, the text that I was referring to is Asumu's replacement of
the Racket is a Programming Language.)


 Since I'm talking, I might as well mention my personal opinion on
 the strong points of racket (besides the (non-)obvious ones of
 having advanced macros, first-class continuations and all that kind
 of stuff) since these might be worth mentioning on the front page:
 [...gui...] [...web-server...]

Yeah, including these things would be good, if someone can compose a
similarly short and understandable and not-too-buzz-wordy text out of
them.


Three hours ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
 
 I agree that we need to go beyond 'Racket is a programming language'
 as cute as it may be.
 
 I am surprised Eli objected to your proposed sentence, because it is
 a good, solid one-sentence description.

I didn't -- I looked up that conversation, and at the end I said That
sounds fine for a one liner.

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Robby Findler
I like the idea, but I think our twitter feed and blog aren't updated enough.

Robby

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Asumu Takikawa as...@ccs.neu.edu wrote:
 Hi all,

 Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
 significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
 communicate information.

 How would people feel about adding more content below the fold on the
 website? To be more concrete about this, here's a mockup I made:

 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home/
 (should look fine on Firefox, Opera, and Chrome at least)

 Notably, it contains a twitter feed for @racketlang and entries from the
 blog. These might help to give the first impression that we're an active
 community.

 Cheers,
 Asumu
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Norman Gray

Greetings.

On 2011 Dec 20, at 05:34, Asumu Takikawa wrote:

 Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
 significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
 communicate information.

...or which could be used, as now, to project authority and decisiveness.

The white space below the text currently on the Racket page says this is all 
that has to be said at this point; follow the links above for more 
information.  That makes me at least pay more attention to it.

If there's more text on the page, as in the sample page, I read less of it, and 
I don't imagine I'm alone in that.

I can feel my eyes gliding over the page, trying to find some way of parsing 
it.  I alight on the 'Download Racket' link, and on the 'About', 'Download', 
'Documentation', ... headlines, and they end up being the only things I see at 
all.

Best wishes,

Norman


-- 
Norman Gray  :  http://nxg.me.uk
SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK


_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
I like the idea too, but I think we should bring more content from
other parts of the site to the front page.   The Ruby home page
[http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/] has most of our participate section
on the front page, for example.  The Clojure home page
[http://clojure.org/] does a nice job with the blog integration.  And
the node.js download link [http://nodejs.org/] is very well done.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Robby Findler
ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote:
 I like the idea, but I think our twitter feed and blog aren't updated enough.

 Robby

 On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Asumu Takikawa as...@ccs.neu.edu wrote:
 Hi all,

 Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
 significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
 communicate information.

 How would people feel about adding more content below the fold on the
 website? To be more concrete about this, here's a mockup I made:

 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home/
 (should look fine on Firefox, Opera, and Chrome at least)

 Notably, it contains a twitter feed for @racketlang and entries from the
 blog. These might help to give the first impression that we're an active
 community.

 Cheers,
 Asumu
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev



-- 
sam th
sa...@ccs.neu.edu

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Matthias Felleisen

Asumu, thanks for the effort. 

I like the width of the Ruby and Clojure pages -- space on each side is good. 
I really like the highlighting of the sample code on the Ruby page. 
I prefer our organization of sample code, and I wish we could run some of these 
in Danny's compiler. 
I like the height of the old Racket page. 
And I like the simplicity of the old Racket page and the Clojure page. 

I do NOT like pages that have text below my laptop screen 'fold'. 
My eyes do glaze over. And I am off the page quickly. 

I wouldn't mind a second Racket site that has some of what Asumu proposes, say 
Racket-fans.org






On Dec 20, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:

 I like the idea too, but I think we should bring more content from
 other parts of the site to the front page.   The Ruby home page
 [http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/] has most of our participate section
 on the front page, for example.  The Clojure home page
 [http://clojure.org/] does a nice job with the blog integration.  And
 the node.js download link [http://nodejs.org/] is very well done.
 
 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Robby Findler
 ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote:
 I like the idea, but I think our twitter feed and blog aren't updated enough.
 
 Robby
 
 On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Asumu Takikawa as...@ccs.neu.edu wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
 significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
 communicate information.
 
 How would people feel about adding more content below the fold on the
 website? To be more concrete about this, here's a mockup I made:
 
 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home/
 (should look fine on Firefox, Opera, and Chrome at least)
 
 Notably, it contains a twitter feed for @racketlang and entries from the
 blog. These might help to give the first impression that we're an active
 community.
 
 Cheers,
 Asumu
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
 
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
 
 
 
 -- 
 sam th
 sa...@ccs.neu.edu
 
 _
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Tony Garnock-Jones
On 2011-12-20 4:07 AM, Robby Findler wrote:
 I like the idea, but I think our twitter feed and blog aren't updated enough.

When we decided to put a twitter feed on the rabbitmq.com homepage, we
went with simply including *any tweet mentioning rabbitmq*. This has its
upside and its downside, of course, and there was a lot of discussion at
the time as to whether this was appropriate, shooting ourselves in the
foot, etc.

By and large, it has worked out. Negative tweets are few and far
between. The impression given is of a vibrant and fairly diverse community.

Trickier, perhaps, with Racket, which isn't such a unique search term.

Tony
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Matthias Felleisen
matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote:

 I do NOT like pages that have text below my laptop screen 'fold'.
 My eyes do glaze over. And I am off the page quickly.

The important questions about this are:

1. Does it affect your attention to the above-the-fold text?
2. Are you more likely to read below-the-fold text than text on
another page that you have to click to?

Most significantly, we should really really use Noel et al's Myna
[http://mynaweb.com/] tool to test this empirically.
-- 
sam th
sa...@ccs.neu.edu
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Eli Barzilay
5 hours ago, Norman Gray wrote:
 
 Greetings.
 
 On 2011 Dec 20, at 05:34, Asumu Takikawa wrote:
 
  Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
  significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
  communicate information.
 
 ...or which could be used, as now, to project authority and
 decisiveness.

+3

(Note that when I added the ad space on the page I intentionally
didn't do so at the bottom of the page.)


 The white space below the text currently on the Racket page says
 this is all that has to be said at this point; follow the links
 above for more information.  That makes me at least pay more
 attention to it.

Another point that wasn't raised so far is what to do with pages where
this content fits more.For the example of a twitter/blog feed and
a facebook/google+ badges, the community page is much more fitting, so
either this proposal drags content from there to the front page (=
noise), or places it on both (= annoying redundancy).  It could work
better if there was some new content to put on the front page.

BTW, modulo objections along Neil's lines, it seems fine to add that
to the community page.  But note that there's no mention there of the
FB page since there's no content on it yet, and the same goes for
google+.

(BTW², with google+ you can even link to a page and have it integrated
by g+.  They also have a static version of the badge, no scripts and
no tracking.)

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread John Clements

On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:08 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Matthias Felleisen
 matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote:
 
 I do NOT like pages that have text below my laptop screen 'fold'.
 My eyes do glaze over. And I am off the page quickly.
 
 The important questions about this are:
 
 1. Does it affect your attention to the above-the-fold text?
 2. Are you more likely to read below-the-fold text than text on
 another page that you have to click to?
 
 Most significantly, we should really really use Noel et al's Myna
 [http://mynaweb.com/] tool to test this empirically.

I personally like Asumu's version better. 

I think that using Noel's testing framework is a good idea.

John 



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Asumu Takikawa
On 2011-12-20 08:02:15 -0500, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
 I do NOT like pages that have text below my laptop screen 'fold'.
 My eyes do glaze over. And I am off the page quickly.

Taking some feedback into account, here's a second mockup:
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home-3/

It leaves all the content above the fold but fits in more by using a
fluid 12-column based layout (credit to http://cssgrid.net/). If you
resize the browser window it will re-align the layout.

The extra content in the space is a twitter/blog feed in the mockup, but
it could be something else as well.

Cheers,
Asumu
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Matthew Flatt
At Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:11:35 -0500, Asumu Takikawa wrote:
 On 2011-12-20 08:02:15 -0500, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
  I do NOT like pages that have text below my laptop screen 'fold'.
  My eyes do glaze over. And I am off the page quickly.
 
 Taking some feedback into account, here's a second mockup:
 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home-3/
 
 It leaves all the content above the fold but fits in more by using a
 fluid 12-column based layout (credit to http://cssgrid.net/). If you
 resize the browser window it will re-align the layout.
 
 The extra content in the space is a twitter/blog feed in the mockup, but
 it could be something else as well.

I like it. I think the narrower versions were also an improvement, but
this bigger change is growing on me.

Overall, I like the fresh energy. It's not what I would do, and that's
good.

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Neil Van Dyke

Eli Barzilay wrote at 12/20/2011 01:45 PM:

and there no sane way to debug it other than viewing it in all browsers.



Asumu, it seems like you're on a good track, but after you get the 
layout how you like it in your browser, I don't envy you the 
cross-browser testing to which Eli refers. :)


FWIW, this has a few layout problems in the (rebranded) Firefox that's 
in Debian Stable.  Two most obvious problems: font sizes appear wrong, 
and then change to different wrong when switching to single-column mode, 
some blocks are overlaid.


--
http://www.neilvandyke.org/
_
 For list-related administrative tasks:
 http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Neil Van Dyke n...@neilvandyke.org wrote:
 Eli Barzilay wrote at 12/20/2011 01:45 PM:

 and there no sane way to debug it other than viewing it in all browsers.

 Asumu, it seems like you're on a good track, but after you get the layout
 how you like it in your browser, I don't envy you the cross-browser testing
 to which Eli refers. :)

Eli, do we have some nicely summarized information about what
user-agents we see with what frequency?
-- 
sam th
sa...@ccs.neu.edu
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Eli Barzilay
Just now, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Neil Van Dyke n...@neilvandyke.org wrote:
  Eli Barzilay wrote at 12/20/2011 01:45 PM:
 
  and there no sane way to debug it other than viewing it in all browsers.
 
  Asumu, it seems like you're on a good track, but after you get the
  layout how you like it in your browser, I don't envy you the
  cross-browser testing to which Eli refers. :)
 
 Eli, do we have some nicely summarized information about what
 user-agents we see with what frequency?

That's easy to get, but it won't help much.

(As an example why it doesn't: I've reorganized the examples section
at some point to have the text laid out logically for a few vocal
people criticizing how the page rendered in lynx -- yet I don't think
that it would show up in the logs...)

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote:
 Just now, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Neil Van Dyke n...@neilvandyke.org wrote:
  Eli Barzilay wrote at 12/20/2011 01:45 PM:
 
  and there no sane way to debug it other than viewing it in all browsers.
 
  Asumu, it seems like you're on a good track, but after you get the
  layout how you like it in your browser, I don't envy you the
  cross-browser testing to which Eli refers. :)

 Eli, do we have some nicely summarized information about what
 user-agents we see with what frequency?

 That's easy to get, but it won't help much.

I still think it would be interesting if you can provide it.

 (As an example why it doesn't: I've reorganized the examples section
 at some point to have the text laid out logically for a few vocal
 people criticizing how the page rendered in lynx -- yet I don't think
 that it would show up in the logs...)

I assume `lynx' has an appropriate user-agent string.  But on the
broader issue, I think it's more important to have a website that
looks like we're a serious language that people might use to develop
applications in 2011 than one that looks good in lynx.
-- 
sam th
sa...@ccs.neu.edu
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Neil Van Dyke

Matthias Felleisen wrote at 12/20/2011 08:02 AM:

I wouldn't mind a second Racket site that has some of what Asumu proposes, say 
Racket-fans.org
   


BTW, I recently registered racket-club.{org,com}, mainly for the humor 
potential. If there is a site that someone has been aching to see 
happen, which for some reason can't be part of racket-lang.org, let me 
know.


(I'd like to see racket-lang.org (hopefully someday racket.org) be 
the one-stop shopping center for all things Racket, not fragment that 
without a good reason.  Ad revenue is not a good reason to fragment.)


--
http://www.neilvandyke.org/
_
 For list-related administrative tasks:
 http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Vincent St-Amour
At Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:45:26 -0500,
Eli Barzilay wrote:
 (c) I'd get rid of the why racket section -- I don't see anything
 there that doesn't induce yawnage,

I disagree. This paragraph advertizes our high-quality libraries and
IDE. Both of these are great selling points, and our current website
is silent about them.

I also liked that the previous version of Asumu's design mentioned
that Racket was both a functional and an OO language.

Vincent
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Eli Barzilay
50 minutes ago, Vincent St-Amour wrote:
 At Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:45:26 -0500,
 Eli Barzilay wrote:
  (c) I'd get rid of the why racket section -- I don't see anything
  there that doesn't induce yawnage,
 
 I disagree. This paragraph advertizes our high-quality libraries and
 IDE. Both of these are great selling points, and our current website
 is silent about them.

I'm not opposed to having *some* Why Racket? text, just to the
particular text:

| open-source and free software programming language

Redundant: too long for just free, and as Sam just said, everyone
knows that programming langugaes are free anyway.

| platform for language design and implementation.

That means almost nothing to most people.  Even something like Racket
is a Programmable Language works better...  I don't think that
there's a way to make it clear in a short sentence, but if there is,
it should most definitely get included.


| Based on over 15 years of research and practical experience,

*yawn*


| Racket ships with many libraries, an IDE, and a package distribution
| system.

That's the good part in the whole blurb.


 I also liked that the previous version of Asumu's design mentioned
 that Racket was both a functional and an OO language.

Yeah, that would work.  So a constructive suggestion: get rid of the
blah blah above, and instead add more features.  (While avoiding too
many buzzwords making it sound like a language features shopping
list.)

-- 
  ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))  Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/   Maze is Life!
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-20 Thread Vincent St-Amour
At Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:28:54 -0500,
Eli Barzilay wrote:
 I'm not opposed to having *some* Why Racket? text, just to the
 particular text:

I agree with most of your points about the specifics of the text.

 | Based on over 15 years of research and practical experience,
 
 *yawn*

On the one hand, I agree, but on the other, this makes it clear that
Racket has been around for a while, is a mature ecosystem and is not
likely to disappear overnight.

Vincent
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


[racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-19 Thread Asumu Takikawa
Hi all,

Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
communicate information.

How would people feel about adding more content below the fold on the
website? To be more concrete about this, here's a mockup I made:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home/
(should look fine on Firefox, Opera, and Chrome at least)

Notably, it contains a twitter feed for @racketlang and entries from the
blog. These might help to give the first impression that we're an active
community.

Cheers,
Asumu
_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-19 Thread Jon Rafkind
+1

On 12/19/2011 10:34 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote:
 Hi all,

 Currently, the Racket home page is really nice, but it leaves a
 significant amount of vertical space unused that could be used to
 communicate information.

 How would people feel about adding more content below the fold on the
 website? To be more concrete about this, here's a mockup I made:

 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/racket-home/
 (should look fine on Firefox, Opera, and Chrome at least)

 Notably, it contains a twitter feed for @racketlang and entries from the
 blog. These might help to give the first impression that we're an active
 community.

 Cheers,
 Asumu
 _
   For list-related administrative tasks:
   http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

_
  For list-related administrative tasks:
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev


Re: [racket-dev] Racket home page proposal

2011-12-19 Thread Neil Van Dyke

Asumu Takikawa wrote at 12/20/2011 12:34 AM:

How would people feel about adding more content below the fold on the
website?


Seems OK to me, but two points:

1. Don't let the Twitter and such dominate the page visually.  Things 
like Twitter are for bringing people in, not sending them away or 
distracting once they're already at the page where we can tell them what 
we most want to tell them.


2. Don't use the Twitter, Facebook, etc. Web bugs.  They already track 
individual's browsing behavior in detail across most Web sites, but 
Racket can be better than that, on principle.  You can implement this in 
server-side Racket code.


--
http://www.neilvandyke.org/
_
 For list-related administrative tasks:
 http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev