Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Niall, You're against moving it? As in you don't like the idea or you would block it from moving forward? Are there really many people (even one?) that wants to contribute to Struts 1 docs? Niall Paul On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Niall Pemberton niall.pember...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: I would like to move the Struts 1 documentation from SVN to Confluence. As old (10 years almost?!) as Struts 1 is, today it is not possible for any community member to update it without having SVN commit access. I think it's too high a bar. Does anyone have any technical objections to this? I'm -1 on this - not for technical reasons, but I don't see the point when Struts 1 is effectively in maintenance mode (at best). Are there really many people (even one?) that wants to contribute to Struts 1 docs? Niall Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: I may have gotten the wrong impression, but it seems all SideWiki content is stored in Google. I have a thing about letting Google owning all the world's data. Okay. It was just an idea for how the community can add commentary to our content without any of us having to do anything. The community could still choose to use it, of course - it's more a question of whether or not we promote it and take feedback from it. I guess what I'm thinking is that, after this long, I can't imagine so much change coming to the S1 docs that converting them all to Confluence and then making the changes will actually save time over just making those changes to what we have. My expectation is that you'd spend far, far more time in the conversion than you'd save in any subsequent updates. That said, though, if that's where your itch lies, you are of course welcome to scratch it. :-) -- Martin Cooper Paul On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Can we defer the research into another wiki? I would at least get into Confluence and then move everything to something new, if desired. Sigh. Please just take 2 minutes to look at what Sidewiki is. It's not something else we would move our content to, it's an alternative means for the community to add content to existing pages. -- Martin Cooper Paul On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Thanks Martin and Wendy for your replies. On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. I didn't know people could be given committer rights to only documentation. Last time I probed this topic, I was told (and the email thread exists somewhere) that there are no such thing as partial rights -- you get to commit access to everything (or nothing) under the struts group. That's not what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's still true that commit access is for all of the Struts repo and not for pieces of it. What I meant is that people can earn commit rights on the basis of their work on documentation. Merit is not confined only to code. -- Martin Cooper Since Confluence is a different system, perhaps things became more lenient when I wasn't looking. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? I wasn't hoping to open up a new wiki discussion ;-) but I do remember some committers saying they're unhappy with Confluence. If all of Struts could put their documentation in one place, I am willing to go wherever the group decides. So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! Yes, I don't look forward to it, but I think keeping it in SVN is akin to being frozen in an ice-berg. Even I hate editing it. Anyway, with the help of Lukasz, I hope it is easier. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail:
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
Niall, You're against moving it? As in you don't like the idea or you would block it from moving forward? Paul On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Niall Pemberton niall.pember...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: I would like to move the Struts 1 documentation from SVN to Confluence. As old (10 years almost?!) as Struts 1 is, today it is not possible for any community member to update it without having SVN commit access. I think it's too high a bar. Does anyone have any technical objections to this? I'm -1 on this - not for technical reasons, but I don't see the point when Struts 1 is effectively in maintenance mode (at best). Are there really many people (even one?) that wants to contribute to Struts 1 docs? Niall Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
2009/12/26 Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org: I would like to move the Struts 1 documentation from SVN to Confluence. As old (10 years almost?!) as Struts 1 is, today it is not possible for any community member to update it without having SVN commit access. I think it's too high a bar. Does anyone have any technical objections to this? +1 and I even offer my help Regards -- Lukasz http://www.lenart.org.pl/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: I would like to move the Struts 1 documentation from SVN to Confluence. As old (10 years almost?!) as Struts 1 is, today it is not possible for any community member to update it without having SVN commit access. I think it's too high a bar. Does anyone have any technical objections to this? I don't know about technical objections, but I'd like to understand which bar you're referring to. Is it the bar of having to learn and use Subversion, versus editing a wiki page? Or is it the bar of having to become a committer before gaining access? In either case, it's still not going to be possible for any community member to update the official docs, since even if we switch to Confluence, access can be made available only to those who have filed an iCLA. That's why we have two spaces - one for official docs maintained only by those who have an iCLA on file, and another for anyone who wants to contribute, whether or not they have an iCLA on file. (So there already is no bar, for this second space.) If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! -- Martin Cooper Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: I would like to move the Struts 1 documentation from SVN to Confluence. As old (10 years almost?!) as Struts 1 is, today it is not possible for any community member to update it without having SVN commit access. I think it's too high a bar. Does anyone have any technical objections to this? I find it extremely difficult to provide oversight for Confluence based documentation because there are no 'commit diff' emails. Unless something has improved since I last looked, it sends the *entire* page in html when a page changes. Blech. (There is an enhancement request for this somewhere in the public JIRA for Confluence.) Community wise, I'd rather give people commit access to work on the docs. Pushing the docs out where it's easier to give people access makes it very easy to not bother to vote them in as committers, and we lose valuable community members who might do more if they had access. If the people working on the docs want to use Confluence, it's fine with me, but those are a couple of concerns to consider. -- Wendy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
Thanks Martin and Wendy for your replies. On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. I didn't know people could be given committer rights to only documentation. Last time I probed this topic, I was told (and the email thread exists somewhere) that there are no such thing as partial rights -- you get to commit access to everything (or nothing) under the struts group. Since Confluence is a different system, perhaps things became more lenient when I wasn't looking. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? I wasn't hoping to open up a new wiki discussion ;-) but I do remember some committers saying they're unhappy with Confluence. If all of Struts could put their documentation in one place, I am willing to go wherever the group decides. So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! Yes, I don't look forward to it, but I think keeping it in SVN is akin to being frozen in an ice-berg. Even I hate editing it. Anyway, with the help of Lukasz, I hope it is easier. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Thanks Martin and Wendy for your replies. On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. I didn't know people could be given committer rights to only documentation. Last time I probed this topic, I was told (and the email thread exists somewhere) that there are no such thing as partial rights -- you get to commit access to everything (or nothing) under the struts group. That's not what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's still true that commit access is for all of the Struts repo and not for pieces of it. What I meant is that people can earn commit rights on the basis of their work on documentation. Merit is not confined only to code. -- Martin Cooper Since Confluence is a different system, perhaps things became more lenient when I wasn't looking. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? I wasn't hoping to open up a new wiki discussion ;-) but I do remember some committers saying they're unhappy with Confluence. If all of Struts could put their documentation in one place, I am willing to go wherever the group decides. So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! Yes, I don't look forward to it, but I think keeping it in SVN is akin to being frozen in an ice-berg. Even I hate editing it. Anyway, with the help of Lukasz, I hope it is easier. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
Can we defer the research into another wiki? I would at least get into Confluence and then move everything to something new, if desired. Paul On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Thanks Martin and Wendy for your replies. On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. I didn't know people could be given committer rights to only documentation. Last time I probed this topic, I was told (and the email thread exists somewhere) that there are no such thing as partial rights -- you get to commit access to everything (or nothing) under the struts group. That's not what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's still true that commit access is for all of the Struts repo and not for pieces of it. What I meant is that people can earn commit rights on the basis of their work on documentation. Merit is not confined only to code. -- Martin Cooper Since Confluence is a different system, perhaps things became more lenient when I wasn't looking. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? I wasn't hoping to open up a new wiki discussion ;-) but I do remember some committers saying they're unhappy with Confluence. If all of Struts could put their documentation in one place, I am willing to go wherever the group decides. So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! Yes, I don't look forward to it, but I think keeping it in SVN is akin to being frozen in an ice-berg. Even I hate editing it. Anyway, with the help of Lukasz, I hope it is easier. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Can we defer the research into another wiki? I would at least get into Confluence and then move everything to something new, if desired. Sigh. Please just take 2 minutes to look at what Sidewiki is. It's not something else we would move our content to, it's an alternative means for the community to add content to existing pages. -- Martin Cooper Paul On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Thanks Martin and Wendy for your replies. On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. I didn't know people could be given committer rights to only documentation. Last time I probed this topic, I was told (and the email thread exists somewhere) that there are no such thing as partial rights -- you get to commit access to everything (or nothing) under the struts group. That's not what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's still true that commit access is for all of the Struts repo and not for pieces of it. What I meant is that people can earn commit rights on the basis of their work on documentation. Merit is not confined only to code. -- Martin Cooper Since Confluence is a different system, perhaps things became more lenient when I wasn't looking. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? I wasn't hoping to open up a new wiki discussion ;-) but I do remember some committers saying they're unhappy with Confluence. If all of Struts could put their documentation in one place, I am willing to go wherever the group decides. So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! Yes, I don't look forward to it, but I think keeping it in SVN is akin to being frozen in an ice-berg. Even I hate editing it. Anyway, with the help of Lukasz, I hope it is easier. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
Re: Moving Struts 1 Doc to Confluence
I may have gotten the wrong impression, but it seems all SideWiki content is stored in Google. I have a thing about letting Google owning all the world's data. Paul On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Can we defer the research into another wiki? I would at least get into Confluence and then move everything to something new, if desired. Sigh. Please just take 2 minutes to look at what Sidewiki is. It's not something else we would move our content to, it's an alternative means for the community to add content to existing pages. -- Martin Cooper Paul On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Paul Benedict pbened...@apache.org wrote: Thanks Martin and Wendy for your replies. On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Martin Cooper mart...@apache.org wrote: If you're concerned about the need for committership, then certainly the bar is a bit higher than just filing an iCLA. However, it's absolutely possible to gain committership for documentation, rather than code. I can think of two people, off the top of my head, who have been given committership in Struts primarily for documentation, at least initially. If there are people who are contributing patches for the docs, then perhaps we should be looking at that. I didn't know people could be given committer rights to only documentation. Last time I probed this topic, I was told (and the email thread exists somewhere) that there are no such thing as partial rights -- you get to commit access to everything (or nothing) under the struts group. That's not what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's still true that commit access is for all of the Struts repo and not for pieces of it. What I meant is that people can earn commit rights on the basis of their work on documentation. Merit is not confined only to code. -- Martin Cooper Since Confluence is a different system, perhaps things became more lenient when I wasn't looking. One other option that comes to mind is Sidewiki. I haven't actually played with this myself yet, but it seems like it might be an interesting option for allowing anyone to add content and comments alongside the official docs. Anyone have an opinion on how viable, or otherwise, this might be? I wasn't hoping to open up a new wiki discussion ;-) but I do remember some committers saying they're unhappy with Confluence. If all of Struts could put their documentation in one place, I am willing to go wherever the group decides. So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think I have technical objections, but I think there might be other alternatives worth discussing too. Migrating the docs would not be an easy task! Yes, I don't look forward to it, but I think keeping it in SVN is akin to being frozen in an ice-berg. Even I hate editing it. Anyway, with the help of Lukasz, I hope it is easier. Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@struts.apache.org
