Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Steven Blatnick]

Uh oh, fighting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybNI0KB1bg

Can't we all just:


;-)

On 10/13/2014 10:45 AM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

On 12.10.2014 г. 19:04, Tim Tassonis wrote:


On 10/11/2014 12:12 PM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

On 22.9.2014 г. 18:34, Kernc wrote:

 If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working 
desktop, if

 nothing else.


Have fun, then. Just fixed a few Windows Machines and again knew one
reason to never, ever move to windows: The real-life requirement to
install a third-party commercial virus scanner eating up half of my
computer's resources just to be able to survive a few days on this
platform. Never in my life will i move to that horrible world.


Very true. I never praised Win~1 in the first place, and the lack of 
package manager is it's main system fault until W8. It'll take many 
years to see all applications migrate to Windows Store, and to have 
running random code from Internet blocked forever.


With the Linux distributions, the situation quite different, but not 
any better. You can (a) use the distribution packages only, and put up 
with things like K4, G3 and systemd; (b) compile packages from source, 
which is time consuming, and due to dependencies, you need to compile 
more and more of them; (c) block the unwanted updates - but again, due 
to dependencies, you have to block more and more. For a regular user, 
the only choice is (a), or install once and never update anything. 
Linux praises itself as a "free" operating system, but I can hardly 
imagine more totalitarian installation approach.


I used mainly distribution packages, of course, with some things 
compiled, some blocked, and even a 3rd party .deb or two, but managing 
the whole thing became too time consuming. As much as I hate them, the 
antivirus scanners at least work automatically.


--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel


___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

On 12.10.2014 г. 19:04, Tim Tassonis wrote:


On 10/11/2014 12:12 PM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

On 22.9.2014 г. 18:34, Kernc wrote:


 If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if
 nothing else.


Have fun, then. Just fixed a few Windows Machines and again knew one
reason to never, ever move to windows: The real-life requirement to
install a third-party commercial virus scanner eating up half of my
computer's resources just to be able to survive a few days on this
platform. Never in my life will i move to that horrible world.


Very true. I never praised Win~1 in the first place, and the lack of 
package manager is it's main system fault until W8. It'll take many 
years to see all applications migrate to Windows Store, and to have 
running random code from Internet blocked forever.


With the Linux distributions, the situation quite different, but not any 
better. You can (a) use the distribution packages only, and put up with 
things like K4, G3 and systemd; (b) compile packages from source, which 
is time consuming, and due to dependencies, you need to compile more and 
more of them; (c) block the unwanted updates - but again, due to 
dependencies, you have to block more and more. For a regular user, the 
only choice is (a), or install once and never update anything. Linux 
praises itself as a "free" operating system, but I can hardly imagine 
more totalitarian installation approach.


I used mainly distribution packages, of course, with some things 
compiled, some blocked, and even a 3rd party .deb or two, but managing 
the whole thing became too time consuming. As much as I hate them, the 
antivirus scanners at least work automatically.


--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Tim Tassonis]

On 10/11/2014 12:12 PM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:
> On 22.9.2014 г. 18:34, Kernc wrote:
> 
>> If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if
>> nothing else.
>>
>> Yeah, good luck with that.
>>
>> http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html
> 
> A mirror may only show what it reflects. A branch is judged by it's
> fruits, not the leaves, and the fruit of Linux desktop became sour. A
> koan can be found for any situation or opinion; here [1] is an
> illustrated collection of more than 150. :)
> 
> That being said, Win~1 is not good for everything. As expected, I have
> to boot Linux from time to time, but am using Geany less that before.
> Unsubscribing, then, is only a matter of time.


Have fun, then. Just fixed a few Windows Machines and again knew one
reason to never, ever move to windows: The real-life requirement to
install a third-party commercial virus scanner eating up half of my
computer's resources just to be able to survive a few days on this
platform. Never in my life will i move to that horrible world.



> 
> -- 
> E-gards: Jimmy
> ___
> Devel mailing list
> Devel@lists.geany.org
> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel


-- 
decentral.ch - IT Stuff
Tim Tassonis
Dennlerstasse 36
8047 Zürich

st...@decentral.ch
+41 79 229 36 17
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

On 11.10.2014 г. 13:12, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:


here [1] is an illustrated collection of more than 150. :)


Missed the link. Here:

http://thecodelesscode.com/contents

--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

On 22.9.2014 г. 18:34, Kernc wrote:


If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if
nothing else.

Yeah, good luck with that.

http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html


A mirror may only show what it reflects. A branch is judged by it's 
fruits, not the leaves, and the fruit of Linux desktop became sour. A 
koan can be found for any situation or opinion; here [1] is an 
illustrated collection of more than 150. :)


That being said, Win~1 is not good for everything. As expected, I have 
to boot Linux from time to time, but am using Geany less that before. 
Unsubscribing, then, is only a matter of time.


--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Frank Lanitz]

Am 23.09.2014 um 01:57 schrieb Matthew Brush:
> 
> P.S. I have my fingers crossed Ubuntu will shield me from this systemd
> brouhaha I keep hearing about :)

Well, I think not. But I've heard there are some folks from Debian
universe thinking about a fork without systemd, pulse etc...
Let's see.

For the meanwhile even I really dislike the trend to make everything
bigger and more integrated and bloated in favor of the Unix philosophy,
Debian Testing is running smooth here with systemd I have to admit.

Cheers,
Frank



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Frank Lanitz]

Am 23.09.2014 um 18:44 schrieb Dimitar Zhekov:
> - Not designed to be used by non-administrator. Fixable by writing
> some utility programs. - A zoo of user interfaces. Blood-red,
> poison-green or Turkish-blue for main backgrounds... 
>- Crappy 3rd
> party drivers, even from respected companies. 
>- 80% of the programs
> run properly in "96 DPI" :) only. Of the ones that "support" high
> DPI, half would better not, including FF and Opera. Somewhat fixable
> with 7even.

Well.. These are my most important issues inside Windows world for me
when really using it (beside the fact the closed source software wrong
by default is, but this is not the matter of discussion). I've got
issues with my eyes which forces me to use bigger font, higher contrast
etc. Unfortunately a huge number of standard software on Windows seems
to hard code their color schemas and fonts or hide them inside some
cryptic properties menu (which I only can access with pain without
changing the properties ...). With Windows 7 they changed a lot on UI
configuration compaired to XP (not all of them are bad) and some of
them do really a bad job. E.g. the thing that only FullHD seems be a
valid option on viewing things -- every other screen seeting is just
not working on my boxes. This is in combination with some of the vendors
are not using Windows UI API (which is avaialble and from what I have
seen is quiet ok in terms of acessibility) but doing there own stuff
are doing a real bad job on me. So in private I'm not using Windows
also because of such things, but at company my boss needs to pay the
extra time I spent on this crap.

At the end just to name some peases of software wich I recognized as
quiet bad during last years:

- Nearly everything from SAP starting with R/3 up to dbisql and other
Sybase originated tools incl PowerBuilder and PowerDesigner
- Aris
- Eclipse
- AFPS (some ERP tool)
- VMWare Websphere (The Flash ESX admin client -- not yet tried the
HTML5 version)
- Cisco Admin console
- ...

These tools might be powerful on there main function but they really
suck if you are hadicapped. At Linux desktops I don't have such issue
at least as long as vendors are using the API. So I can't really blame
Microsoft for most the these things, but I've got the experince, if it
comes to Windows/Java-World, Worls just sucks for people that are
handicapped with their eys.

Just my rant against vendors not using nativ API and a closed software
world which seems to support this behavior.

Cheers,
Frank



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Matthew Brush]

On 14-09-23 09:23 AM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

On 22.9.2014 г. 14:12, Nick Treleaven wrote:


Now, Geany under Win~1 has some deficiencies, due to gtk+, so I'll


Such as?


Compared to a regular programmers editor for Win~1:

+++ It's an IDE, not simply an editor, and is still light.
++ I have experience with it.
+ Nice plugins.
+ Real code page convertor, not "Interpret as code page foo" only.

- Non-native interface. Pretty much a norm these days, and can be fixed
to some extend.


It's worse with GTK3 too, it only makes any attempt to look "native" 
when you have themes activated in Windows, so if you are using the 
"classic" Windows theme, it falls back to the builtin GTK+ theme, which 
looks nothing like anything on any desktop.



- With gtk+2, randomly starts to eat several % of CPU time. Not a real
problem, except for laptops. With gtk+ 3.8, see "Geany with gtk+ 3.6.4
under Windows".
- Does not work with all monospaced TrueType fonts.


Maybe same issue as this, for me it also cuts off the last pixel or two 
(horizontally) of each character. Still usable like that but fonts look 
weird and it's distracting.



- Find in Files for locale texts is broken (passing locale file names to
tools is almost surely broken too, but the locale file names support in
glib is terrible anyway). [1]


It's not usable out-of-the box either, unless someone happens to have 
grep utility in their %PATH%.


Cheers,
Matthew Brush
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

On 23.9.2014 г. 03:22, Matthew Brush wrote:


On 14-09-22 08:23 AM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:


If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if
nothing else.


In no particular order, off the top of my head...

- Sandboxing
- Windows Store
- .NET
[...]
- etc...


- Not designed to be used by non-administrator. Fixable by writing some 
utility programs.
- A zoo of user interfaces. Blood-red, poison-green or Turkish-blue for 
main backgrounds...

- Crappy 3rd party drivers, even from respected companies.
- 80% of the programs run properly in "96 DPI" :) only. Of the ones that 
"support" high DPI, half would better not, including FF and Opera. 
Somewhat fixable with 7even.



That being said, if you cram enough FOSS onto Windows it can be made
nearly usable, and also Linux usually runs great in a virtual machine :)


750MB of MinGW + MSYS, with it's own package manager. Though I probably 
installed too much stuff, especially autotools.


Several end-user programs are the same as in Linux. What do you know, 
even Transmission kind of runs on Win~1 these days.


--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

On 22.9.2014 г. 14:12, Nick Treleaven wrote:


Now, Geany under Win~1 has some deficiencies, due to gtk+, so I'll


Such as?


Compared to a regular programmers editor for Win~1:

+++ It's an IDE, not simply an editor, and is still light.
++ I have experience with it.
+ Nice plugins.
+ Real code page convertor, not "Interpret as code page foo" only.

- Non-native interface. Pretty much a norm these days, and can be fixed 
to some extend.
- With gtk+2, randomly starts to eat several % of CPU time. Not a real 
problem, except for laptops. With gtk+ 3.8, see "Geany with gtk+ 3.6.4 
under Windows".

- Does not work with all monospaced TrueType fonts.
- Find in Files for locale texts is broken (passing locale file names to 
tools is almost surely broken too, but the locale file names support in 
glib is terrible anyway). [1]

- Filtering more than 4K of text may block. [1]
- Sync building, the resulting stdout and stderr are completely 
separated. [1], though they still may be mixed, if the spawned program 
emits lots of stdout and stderr texts fast enough. Haven't seen any real 
program do that.


[1] OK with the spawning fix.


GTK 4 :-o Hadn't heard of that. If it's anything like the GTK 3
transition: be afraid!


The Big Depreciation of gtk+3 becomes The Big Removal. Don't know about 
anything else, and don't care any more.


--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Steven Blatnick]

On 09/22/2014 05:57 PM, Matthew Brush wrote:
It's weird you (and others) seem to dismiss XFCE while citing this as 
a goal. I've been using Xubuntu for nearly as long as I've been using 
Linux and it's been a great distro+DE configuration; familiar, 
painless, configurable, minimal, few bugs, each distro upgrade goes 
super smooth, and otherwise the whole thing stays out of the way.


P.S. I have my fingers crossed Ubuntu will shield me from this systemd 
brouhaha I keep hearing about


Cheers,
Matthew Brush 


I don't mind XFCE.  I seem to prefer LXDE.  But ultimately I like the 
MATE menu with applications, places, and system, as well as having the 
configurability without having to edit menu entry files like in LXDE, 
although I think XFCE doesn't have that problem the little bit I've used 
it.  I think my biggest problem with non-MATE solutions is that the 
desktop widget doesn't seem to work as well with compiz (showing what 
desktop you are on, etc), but all in all, I would take XFCE or LXDE over 
Gnome 3 or Unity any day for a desktop.


Personally, I am more annoyed with Gnome 3 than Unity, because it's like 
they've overwritten their code base to make themselves a new project 
that is incompatible with what we are used to.  That said, Unity has 
caused some headaches with compiz configuration being catered to them.


If I had a bit more knowledge on how to make my own distro or if I could 
get a distro to adopt packages I like, I would personally like a distro 
with MATE + compiz + emerald, but even Ubuntu MATE doesn't have emerald 
yet (I've pushed, they suggested I make a ppa). Fortunately, that is the 
easiest thing to manually build and install compared to the other two.  
I also would consider PCManFM as a good file manager.  It seems to have 
most of the features of nautilus/caja, but snappier/light weight.  They 
just need to make a "Connect to Server..." dialog, and I would barely 
notice the difference.


All of this civil unrest/war in the linux community is one of the 
reasons I left making gedit plugins and am happily using geany now. 
Thanks for making an awesome editor!  Please don't "gnome things up" by 
breaking all of your plugins or drastically changing something. I know 
there has been discussion of new plugin architectures, so hopefully they 
won't force me to re-write my plugins like gedit did.


Thanks,

Steve


___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Nick Treleaven]

On 23/09/2014 00:57, Matthew Brush wrote:

I've been using Xubuntu for nearly as long as I've been using Linux and
it's been a great distro+DE configuration; familiar, painless,
configurable, minimal, few bugs, each distro upgrade goes super smooth,
and otherwise the whole thing stays out of the way.


It was actually Xubuntu 11.04 (so a few years ago) which broke when I 
dist-upgraded. The system wouldn't boot.

___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Matthew Brush]

On 14-09-22 08:23 AM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

On 22.9.2014 г. 08:46, Thomas Martitz wrote:

[snip]
Seriously, I can understand that systemd is controversial, but not to
the extend to abandon *Unix* altogether. There are many many ways to
avoid systemd without going Windows, for example using a distro that
doesn't use systemd (Gentoo, Slackware, etc) or one of the BSDs.


I could not care less for being controversial - it's *broken* for me.

If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if
nothing else.



In no particular order, off the top of my head...

- Sandboxing
- Windows Store
- .NET
- Boxes
- Inaccessible source code
- Blue screens
- Terrible console and CLI tools
- Malware, spamware, bloatware, viruses
- Windows Updates, Genuine Advantage, phone home, etc.
- Price and the Microsoft Tax
- Inferior development tools
- Terrible platform APIs (Win32 API, DDK, COM, etc)
- Inferior performance
- Broken and annoying security model
- No special files (pty,lo,etc)
- No unified file system hierarchy
- No package management
- Little to no POSIX or other standards support
- etc...

That being said, if you cram enough FOSS onto Windows it can be made 
nearly usable, and also Linux usually runs great in a virtual machine :)


Cheers,
Matthew Brush
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Matthew Brush]

On 14-09-22 08:48 AM, Steven Blatnick wrote:

Responses below:

On 09/22/2014 09:23 AM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

After 15 years of using Linux desktop, 3 of which as maintainer of a
source-based distribution? :)

I'm glad (if you want to call it that) to hear that it sounds like only
a recent trend to abandon the users.  I hope they figure things out,
because it's been a painful few years because of the recent trends.  I'm
surprised at how much grief some of these projects have caused to linux
users as a whole, but it's like they are ignoring their constituents.
Linux.  I fight for the users ;-) (tron reference)


But you are right that systemd is not the only reason. KDE 4, GNOME 3,
FF[1], the list goes on, and recently even gtk+ 2.24.23+ (IIRC the
revision) is slightly broken. Guess I finally lost faith in the Linux
as desktop. I hope, for all of you, that Xfce 5 will be just fine.

I'm also happy to hear someone reiterate my disgruntlement with GNOME
3.  One small glimmer of hope is that Ubuntu Mate
 is emerging to fill that nostalgic gap.
Unfortunately, I don't know if they are doing anything with systemd, as
it will still be based on Ubuntu, but at least I get my sane interfaces
back without having to switch to Xfce :-/  They are even packaging
compiz, which much of linux practically abandoning it has been another
sore spot for me, although that could be blamed on GNOME 3 partly as
well for going to Mutter.  Now if only I could convince them to package
Emerald window decorator.  I miss 2007 linux ;-)

I especially like these points in Ubuntu Mate's mission:

  * *Restore the halcyon days of Ubuntu* before Unity
 (I would add GNOME 3 here) was introduced.
  * Provide a *refuge* for Linux users who prefer a traditional desktop
metaphor.



It's weird you (and others) seem to dismiss XFCE while citing this as a 
goal. I've been using Xubuntu for nearly as long as I've been using 
Linux and it's been a great distro+DE configuration; familiar, painless, 
configurable, minimal, few bugs, each distro upgrade goes super smooth, 
and otherwise the whole thing stays out of the way.


P.S. I have my fingers crossed Ubuntu will shield me from this systemd 
brouhaha I keep hearing about :)


Cheers,
Matthew Brush
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Steven Blatnick]

Responses below:

On 09/22/2014 09:23 AM, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:
After 15 years of using Linux desktop, 3 of which as maintainer of a 
source-based distribution? :)
I'm glad (if you want to call it that) to hear that it sounds like only 
a recent trend to abandon the users.  I hope they figure things out, 
because it's been a painful few years because of the recent trends.  I'm 
surprised at how much grief some of these projects have caused to linux 
users as a whole, but it's like they are ignoring their constituents.  
Linux.  I fight for the users ;-) (tron reference)


But you are right that systemd is not the only reason. KDE 4, GNOME 3, 
FF[1], the list goes on, and recently even gtk+ 2.24.23+ (IIRC the 
revision) is slightly broken. Guess I finally lost faith in the Linux 
as desktop. I hope, for all of you, that Xfce 5 will be just fine.
I'm also happy to hear someone reiterate my disgruntlement with GNOME 
3.  One small glimmer of hope is that Ubuntu Mate 
 is emerging to fill that nostalgic gap.  
Unfortunately, I don't know if they are doing anything with systemd, as 
it will still be based on Ubuntu, but at least I get my sane interfaces 
back without having to switch to Xfce :-/  They are even packaging 
compiz, which much of linux practically abandoning it has been another 
sore spot for me, although that could be blamed on GNOME 3 partly as 
well for going to Mutter.  Now if only I could convince them to package 
Emerald window decorator.  I miss 2007 linux ;-)


I especially like these points in Ubuntu Mate's mission:

 * *Restore the halcyon days of Ubuntu* before Unity
    (I would add GNOME 3 here) was introduced.
 * Provide a *refuge* for Linux users who prefer a traditional desktop
   metaphor.

Anyway, I hope the team doesn't mind my sharing about this recent distro.

Steve

___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Kernc]

>
> If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if nothing
> else.
>

Yeah, good luck with that.

http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

On 22.9.2014 г. 08:46, Thomas Martitz wrote:

Am 21.09.2014 um 15:48 schrieb Dimitar Zhekov:


Since Debian is leaning more and more towards systemd, especially with
gvfs installed, and since systemd-init breaks my system, I finally sat
on my back and migrated to Windows. It's not a good system either, but
gets the job done.


This is a joke right?


I wish it was.


Seriously, I can understand that systemd is controversial, but not to
the extend to abandon *Unix* altogether. There are many many ways to
avoid systemd without going Windows, for example using a distro that
doesn't use systemd (Gentoo, Slackware, etc) or one of the BSDs.


I could not care less for being controversial - it's *broken* for me.

If I'm going to distro-hop, why not Windows? A working desktop, if 
nothing else.



Or, as you are on debian already, install the legacy sysvinit. It will
be fully supported at least throughout Jessie (so 5+ years). Or use
Ubuntu 14.04, which is still using upstart and will also be supported
until 2019. I'm sure all controversial points are solved by 2019, either
by systemd or a fork.


I said I kept a minimal Linux system, and it's with sysv-init of course 
(systemd-init is almost unusable for me). But I had to downgrade + block 
the updates of about 10 other packages due to dependencies, and sooner 
or later, udev, gvfs or something else will start to require the latest 
systemd, which *insists* on being init. So "fully supported" is for very 
low values of "full".


"Supported until 2019" normally means "will be fine if you don't upgrade 
anything until 2019, except for security fixes". Thanks - but no thanks.



I think it's just you leaning towards Windows. This is OK but don't
blame systemd for it.


After 15 years of using Linux desktop, 3 of which as maintainer of a 
source-based distribution? :)


But you are right that systemd is not the only reason. KDE 4, GNOME 3, 
FF[1], the list goes on, and recently even gtk+ 2.24.23+ (IIRC the 
revision) is slightly broken. Guess I finally lost faith in the Linux as 
desktop. I hope, for all of you, that Xfce 5 will be just fine.


[1] It's cross platform, of course, but the gtk+ version for Linux was 
very nice.


--
E-gards: Jimmy
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Nick Treleaven]

On 21/09/2014 14:48, Dimitar Zhekov wrote:

I finally sat on my back and migrated to Windows. It's not a good system
either, but gets the job done.


Welcome, I did the same when I replaced a broken laptop, installing 
Ubuntu, which refused to boot after I did a dist-upgrade. I didn't have 
the energy to download and reinstall another linux. The upside is that 
you don't have to dist-upgrade Windows just to run the latest software. 
The downside: no package management, malware, slow malware scanners.



Now, Geany under Win~1 has some deficiencies, due to gtk+, so I'll


Such as?


probably use it as a debugger only, and limit myself to the official
releases


I've not had any trouble building from Git with MSYS. Occasionally it 
needs simple fixes to compile.



But there will be no gtk+4 support,
at least not from me.


GTK 4 :-o Hadn't heard of that. If it's anything like the GTK 3 
transition: be afraid!

___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Tim Tassonis]

A bit surprised as well, but just goes to show how divisive the systemd 
people and their successful attempts to pull all major distros on their 
side are for the whole Linux community. The critics are left with a feeling 
of total helplessness, as even Debian bent over willingly and swept aside 
things like portability with their own non-Linux variants, effectively 
abandoning them, just repeating the well layed-out systemd propaganda with 
nearly robotic obeyance. Lennart and co really demonstrate an example 
masterpiece of how to destroy a community, by constantly breaking promises, 
creating unnecessary dependencies to force their stuff down people's 
throats, calling every critic a dinosaur of the nineties and an emotionally 
unstable "systemd hater", all for the sake of a few seconds bootup speed.



On September 22, 2014 7:47:25 AM Thomas Martitz  wrote:


Am 21.09.2014 um 15:48 schrieb Dimitar Zhekov:
> Hi,
>
> Since Debian is leaning more and more towards systemd, especially with
> gvfs installed, and since systemd-init breaks my system, I finally sat
> on my back and migrated to Windows. It's not a good system either, but
> gets the job done.
>
> Now, Geany under Win~1 has some deficiencies, due to gtk+, so I'll
> probably use it as a debugger only, and limit myself to the official
> releases. But if somebody decides to apply the spawning fix, or
> parsing the columns in compiler messages, or the small patch that adds
> virtual column to the status bar, I will be glad to help.
>
> Also, if Scope has any problems building with or running under gtk+3,
> I'll fix them (some Linux programs are not replaceable, so I kept a
> small Debian system in dual boot). But there will be no gtk+4 support,
> at least not from me.


This is a joke right?

Seriously, I can understand that systemd is controversial, but not to
the extend to abandon *Unix* altogether. There are many many ways to
avoid systemd without going Windows, for example using a distro that
doesn't use systemd (Gentoo, Slackware, etc) or one of the BSDs.

Or, as you are on debian already, install the legacy sysvinit. It will
be fully supported at least throughout Jessie (so 5+ years). Or use
Ubuntu 14.04, which is still using upstart and will also be supported
until 2019. I'm sure all controversial points are solved by 2019, either
by systemd or a fork.

I think it's just you leaning towards Windows. This is OK but don't
blame systemd for it.

Best regards
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel



___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: [Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Thomas Martitz]

Am 21.09.2014 um 15:48 schrieb Dimitar Zhekov:

Hi,

Since Debian is leaning more and more towards systemd, especially with 
gvfs installed, and since systemd-init breaks my system, I finally sat 
on my back and migrated to Windows. It's not a good system either, but 
gets the job done.


Now, Geany under Win~1 has some deficiencies, due to gtk+, so I'll 
probably use it as a debugger only, and limit myself to the official 
releases. But if somebody decides to apply the spawning fix, or 
parsing the columns in compiler messages, or the small patch that adds 
virtual column to the status bar, I will be glad to help.


Also, if Scope has any problems building with or running under gtk+3, 
I'll fix them (some Linux programs are not replaceable, so I kept a 
small Debian system in dual boot). But there will be no gtk+4 support, 
at least not from me.



This is a joke right?

Seriously, I can understand that systemd is controversial, but not to 
the extend to abandon *Unix* altogether. There are many many ways to 
avoid systemd without going Windows, for example using a distro that 
doesn't use systemd (Gentoo, Slackware, etc) or one of the BSDs.


Or, as you are on debian already, install the legacy sysvinit. It will 
be fully supported at least throughout Jessie (so 5+ years). Or use 
Ubuntu 14.04, which is still using upstart and will also be supported 
until 2019. I'm sure all controversial points are solved by 2019, either 
by systemd or a fork.


I think it's just you leaning towards Windows. This is OK but don't 
blame systemd for it.


Best regards
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel

[Geany-Devel] Switched to Win~1

[Dimitar Zhekov]

Hi,

Since Debian is leaning more and more towards systemd, especially with 
gvfs installed, and since systemd-init breaks my system, I finally sat 
on my back and migrated to Windows. It's not a good system either, but 
gets the job done.


Now, Geany under Win~1 has some deficiencies, due to gtk+, so I'll 
probably use it as a debugger only, and limit myself to the official 
releases. But if somebody decides to apply the spawning fix, or parsing 
the columns in compiler messages, or the small patch that adds virtual 
column to the status bar, I will be glad to help.


Also, if Scope has any problems building with or running under gtk+3, 
I'll fix them (some Linux programs are not replaceable, so I kept a 
small Debian system in dual boot). But there will be no gtk+4 support, 
at least not from me.


--
E-gards: Jimmy

___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.geany.org
https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel