Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
Hello Martin - On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Samuel, Marc Maurer has done 95% of the work required to do multi-programming language syntax highlighting in libabiword. The advantage of using libabiword is that you get collaboration for free. It is easy enough to embed this in your own canvas and hook up the controls you need or want, just as we've done for Write. that sounds great! Marc is a bit of a perfectionist so I'm not sure how usable 95% of the work is and whether it could be finished by simply using it and providing bug reports as needed would be. Is this something the community could help with? I know myself and maybe another person or two who would be willing to help if it was clear what else needed to be done. yours, Bobby Hopefully, Marc will chime in soon. Cheers Martin On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 00:39 -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: There has been talk about expanding Pippy to support a variety of programming languages, perhaps as plugins; to add syntax highlighting; and general interest in seeing Develop proceed. Syntax highlighting in Write has been brought up as well. C and Javascript environments have been specifically highlighted, since C is used for a fair bit of code that we ship; but enthusiasts of Ruby and many other languages have considered providing an intro dev environment as a standalone activity, one per language. And HTML creation is possible in Write but without highlighting, and it is not obvious how to put this to good use. Finally, we now have activities for Etoys (Squeak), Scratch, and Turtle Art, but not yet a Logo activity; though a few people are working on the latter. Where are we with these developments? What plans are there to complete any of the above this year? What specific features should we schedule to support the above, and which is most important? SJ ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Code name for 9.1.0
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 06:35:55AM -0700, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Am 15.07.2008 um 05:19 schrieb Tomeu Vizoso: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: morgan wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:56, Richard A. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg Smith wrote: Ideas so far. Please vote or propose a new one: Freire mango Papert I'm +1 for mango. I think naming after fruits plays well with calling our user environment sugar. Another +1 for mango. metoo++ i have to say, though, that one of the best decisions ubuntu ever made was to have alphabetically ordered codenames. i'm not sure where mango came from, but i think apricot, or perhaps breadfruit or coconut would be a better starting point. Agree with Paul. Some fruit lists: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fruit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_fruit#Tropical_fruits I like that a lot. An even greater homage to Ubuntu would be ... drum roll ... Avid Avocado Our machine is green. We have avid users. Avocados are green inside and rather tasty. Amidst avocado trees our young users avidly approach the world. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Autosave in 8.2.0?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard we may have implemented some interim saving feature since 656. Does anyone know anything about that? Not sure what that refers to. Tomeu might know. 656 was a while ago :) Marco has added a session manager to Sugar (in 8.2.0) that takes care of telling activities to save their work because the system is being shut down. Haven't verified if this is complete and working. Have you, Marco? If so, this would also take care of the case where kids shut down before closing all running activities first. What the field might have meant by no data loss is perhaps that their journal contents are being lost. Greg, can you verify if this is the case? Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Network manager 0.7 for Joyride
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 00:32, Brian Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi friends, It would be nice if we had network manager 0.7 in joyride. * It has a nicer API * Nobody is developing 0.6 anymore * 0.7 has new functionality and may have support for more networks This would likely require working with the... * Sugar presence service * Neighborhood view * Frame for the mesh device representation See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Network_manager_0.7 , and please indicate if you are interested in working towards this (or know someone who may be). Sjoerd Simons at Collabora is looking at NM 0.7 for us. Currently we have lots of XO-specific patches (for msh0 etc) in NM 0.6.5 which were not sent/accepted upstream. Due to significant NM changes these patches cannot be applied to 0.7 so the work has to be redone and hopefully improved such that it is upstream-friendly. I can't seem to find a ticket for this. Secondly, Presence Service needs to be updated to handle API changes in NM: #6248 Regards Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Write needs your help (was Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Bobby Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc is a bit of a perfectionist so I'm not sure how usable 95% of the work is and whether it could be finished by simply using it and providing bug reports as needed would be. Is this something the community could help with? I know myself and maybe another person or two who would be willing to help if it was clear what else needed to be done. Martin and Marc will know better about the syntax highlighting stuff, but if you can help with the very important activity that Write is, please consider properly packaging pyabiword for fedora (and other distros): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/WishList#OLPC_Wishlist We are using a _really_ old prerelease tarball of abiword: 2.6.0.svn20071127 . The Abi guys have already released 2.6.4 :/ The abi devs have also asked for help in testing Write with non-latin scripts, this is something of high importance for OLPC. If we cannot bring all the abiword potential to Sugar's Write, we risk someone will start asking for running unsugarized OpenOffice or Abiword on the XO, just as happened with Browse :/ Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Autosave in 8.2.0?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:10, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard we may have implemented some interim saving feature since 656. Does anyone know anything about that? Not sure what that refers to. Tomeu might know. 656 was a while ago :) Marco has added a session manager to Sugar (in 8.2.0) that takes care of telling activities to save their work because the system is being shut down. Haven't verified if this is complete and working. Have you, Marco? If so, this would also take care of the case where kids shut down before closing all running activities first. What the field might have meant by no data loss is perhaps that their journal contents are being lost. Greg, can you verify if this is the case? #6014 is our famous G1G1 field report. Should be fixed by the session manager, but I haven't tested. Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Report on `activities switching' profiling
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:17 -0400, Eben Eliason wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:04 AM, riccardo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (so that it never ends up in the journal) every 1100. The 1100ms value was chosen after some testing as the minimum value (or very near to it) at which both activities are able to completely redraw their windows on switching without artifacts. If you could, it would also be useful to test out the quick tab behavior. While it's true that after a short delay (I forget the exact number of ms) the activities redraw their windows, the behavior is supposed to prevent this redraw as long as the tabbing events happen quickly enough, so that the redraw doesn't add latency when attempting to bypass several activities in a row. I'm not sure if this is actually working properly on the XOs. Sure, I let you know when I have some results. I guess some time can be gained by not doing the conversion Drawable - GdkPixbuf (sugar._sugarext.Preview.get_pixbuf) and perform the scaling and conversion directly on the first buffer. But IMHO the real problem is: ! Activities save their state and take previews continuously regardless of whether their state changed or not Yeah, this would indeed be a problem. This ticket -- http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4365 -- deals with it to some extent, and a patch is present there, but it's been ignored for some time now. - Eben riccardo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New joyride build 2172
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 05:40, Daniel Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Build Announcer v2 wrote: http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2172 Changes in build 2172 from build: 2171 Size delta: -4.85M Can anyone see why my public_rpms for gnome-python2 and gnome-python2-gnomevfs did not get included? Other packages from my public_rpms fell in place just fine (e.g. totem-pl-parser). The gnome-python stuff should knock libgnome and a load of other stuff out of the build. http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2172/devel_jffs2/build.log shows gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-2.fc9 which is newer than your package (gnome-python2-gnomevfs-2.22.1-1.olpc3.i386.rpm). Perhaps you need to rev your release number? Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Network manager 0.7 for Joyride
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:03:58AM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: Currently we have lots of XO-specific patches (for msh0 etc) in NM 0.6.5 which were not sent/accepted upstream. Due to significant NM changes these patches cannot be applied to 0.7 so the work has to be redone and hopefully improved such that it is upstream-friendly. Where are the XO-specific patches? (I wanted to have a quick look at them to see how they could be reworked, but I didn't know where to find them.) -- James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/7/16 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Two answers: similar issues. This is going to be handled by the notification system, which is in its infancy in the upcoming 8.2 release, but should mature and I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. I believe that was the plan of record in previous conversations; I hope I'm not mistaken. What we have implemented now is some basic notifications generated and consumed in the shell, so we haven't added any public API for now. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Thanks for the comment, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Help! Summarizing the xulrunner situation in OLPC
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Daniel Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently modified OLPC-3 xulrunner to remove dependencies on libgnome and gnomevfs2. Once Dennis has had a chance to review my work to remove libgnome deps from other packages too, a huge dependency chain (including metacity, icon themes, and plenty more) will fall out of the build. Therefore it is quite important that OLPC's xulrunner continues to avoid it's dependency on libgnome. The dependency chain there looks suspect. i.e. it's odd that libgnome is bringing in metacity... Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Official (draft) Trac Ticket Workflow
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 23:35, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg and Michael discussed how we want to close tickets. Our conclusions and questions: * All resolved tickets should state that documentation was provided or that no documentation was needed. - How should we represent this boolean choice? It's not boolean necessarily: There is an initial state which is neither. If one of your states is selected by default, it is lying since no documentation has been provided but may be necessary. It's not clear what you mean by documentation, so I can't comment on how to represent it. Can you give a specific example? * Tickets in the 'next_action == finalize' state will be reviewed by the release team and resolved per the previous remark. - Tickets can still be dropped from the workflow at any time by resolving them as 'worksforme', 'invalid', etc. * The emerging ticket workflow is officially described at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Trac_ticket_workflow We'll improve that documentation as quickly as we're able. Please cite it profusely (and comment inline as you desire. We'll move comments to the discussion page as we respond to them). Further questions on the wiki page. Regards Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO and accompanying security issues
Hi, What is the need for speech-dispatcher to run as root? Is it possible to run it as non-root? We need to modify the speechd.conf files from a non-root program and as such run the speech-dispatcher daemon with non-root privileges. To solve the above problem I applied the setuid bits to the speech-dispatcher executable (and changed the permissions of the binary to 6711) and things have been rosy. However, I would like to ask whether using setuid is advisable in the OLPC laptop from a security point of view? i read using setuid should generally be avoided, however running speech-dispatcher as non-root is almost essential in our case. Looking forward to a reply. Thanks! Hemant ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO and accompanying security issues
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 04:04:05PM +0530, Hemant Goyal wrote: However, I would like to ask whether using setuid is advisable in the OLPC laptop from a security point of view? It is like putting a hole through a city wall into a house which is built against the wall, and then telling the city guards to stand outside the house as well as the city gate. Practical, very handy, but extends the safety barrier to include the setuid program code. It means the city guards need to trust the owner of the house. Because the house is a new attack vector. The walls of the house might be thinner than the city walls. It means the code that is running setuid has to be trusted. Because this new code is a new attack vector ... if it can be asked to open or write files, then it can attack a filesystem. I cannot comment on the relative importance of the OLPC security model and the speech-dispatcher needs. I imagine that would depend on a deployment. But I worry about hundreds of thousands of systems that might be infected via this setuid program, if it turns out to contain a flaw. I recall earlier discussion about it or something else. Is there a way to rewrite it to not require root? Almost every other activity does not require root, or obtains it through a carefully controlled mechanism via the kernel. Can you tell me what syscall fails if it is not root? strace may be helpful. -- James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO and accompanying security issues
Hi James,
It is like putting a hole through a city wall into a house which is
built against the wall, and then telling the city guards to stand
outside the house as well as the city gate.
Practical, very handy, but extends the safety barrier to include the
setuid program code.
It means the city guards need to trust the owner of the house. Because
the house is a new attack vector. The walls of the house might be
thinner than the city walls.
It means the code that is running setuid has to be trusted. Because
this new code is a new attack vector ... if it can be asked to open or
write files, then it can attack a filesystem.
Thanks for elaborating the problem in such simple words :). So we can
never tell what just might happen in case some nasty piece of codes
runs through the speech-dispatcher binary... Can't we test and sign
the binaries or something like that? I agree it will add to the burden
of carefully testing speech-dispatcher every time we use an updated
binary however.
I recall earlier discussion about it or something else. Is there a way to
rewrite it to not require root? Almost every other activity does not
require root, or obtains it through a carefully controlled mechanism via
the kernel.
Well sugar-control-panel is what runs as non-root and which would
modify the speech-dispatcher configuration files. Since I got the
setuid idea I have relocated the configuration files of
speech-dispatcher to /home/olpc/.speechd from /etc/speech-dispatcher.
Can you tell me what syscall fails if it is not root? strace may be
helpful.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] devel]$ /usr/bin/speech-dispatcher
Can't create pid file in /var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid, wrong permissions?
===
Strace Output:
open(/var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid, O_RDONLY) = 3
fcntl64(3, F_GETLK, {type=F_UNLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=1, len=3, pid=1}) = 0
close(3)= 0
unlink(/var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
open(/var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0666)
= -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
write(2, Can\'t create pid file in /var/ru..., 76Can't create pid
file in /var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid, wrong permissions?
===
So I guess it s not able to write a PID file.
Next I tried to relocate where the PID file is written as follows:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] devel]$ /usr/bin/speech-dispatcher -P
/home/hemant/speechd.pid
Now it gets stuck at other locations. Its not able to open a
connection with ALSA and create a log file in/var/log/speechd.log.
==
Error: can't open logging file /var/log//speechd.log! Using stdout.
-(I can fix this error since its under my control through the RPM
package)
ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:831:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to create IPC semaphore
Thu Jul 17 17:10:26 2008 [648100] ALSA ERROR: Cannot open audio
device default (Permission denied)
Thu Jul 17 17:10:26 2008 [648175] ALSA ERROR: Cannot initialize Alsa
device 'default': Can't open.
==
The corresponding strace outputs are :
==
open(/var/log//speechd.log, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_APPEND, 0666) = -1
EACCES (Permission denied)
open(/var/log//espeak.log, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600) = -1
EACCES (Permission denied)
==
Thanks for the prompt reply :)
Best,
Hemant
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Re: Devel Digest, Vol 29, Issue 106
Hi Martin, We need keep that capability of upgrade from anywhere to anywhere if at all possible! That is a huge benefit for our customers and for our managing the scope of testing. Even if we can just keep that from any 70x forward it will be a big help. I know we hope 8.2.0 is rock solid but it may not be so we need an option to downgrade safely. BTW on this issue below, I just talked to a sugar engineer and they plan to fix that before we ship 8.2.0. Thanks, Greg S Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:25:17 +1200 From: Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Code name for 9.1.0 To: Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], devel@lists.laptop.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With olpc-update, it's not critical to update from version x to version x+1 - we can skip versions as we don't depend on a particular package state. (e.g. You can upgrade from 650 to joyride without having to upgrade to 703 first...) In the future that could become significant though if we have system changes affecting datastore format changes or something which might make support easier if upgrading from a known version. I don't think that the ability to skip versions is going to hold long term. The current setup is that olpc-updte does away with all the post-inst and related hooks, which means that running code has to have the smarts to upgrade/downgrade stored data formats (user documents, configuration options, etc). This can get burdensome quickly. As of now for example, the promise of olpc-update (of booting back to the older version sanely) is broken between update-703 and current joyride as the ds format has changed in an incompatible way, and update-703 cannot read the new layout. cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
Thanks for all your answers. The thing is we're having some trouble here in Uruguay with xos that run out of disk space. Kids download lots of activities, take lots of pictures and videos and they manage to use all free space they have. When that happens, it seems that sugar won't load in some cases or takes too long to do it. That's why we want to give some kind of warning when they have used, I don't know, 95% of disk space or so, so they can delete some stuff before everything crashes. We'll try to figure out something, but help will be appreciated! On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/7/16 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Two answers: similar issues. This is going to be handled by the notification system, which is in its infancy in the upcoming 8.2 release, but should mature and I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. I believe that was the plan of record in previous conversations; I hope I'm not mistaken. What we have implemented now is some basic notifications generated and consumed in the shell, so we haven't added any public API for now. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Thanks for the comment, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Emiliano Pastorino LATU - Plan Ceibal Av. Italia 6201 CP: 11500, Montevideo, Uruguay Tel: (598 2) 601 3724 int.: 469 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Code name for 9.1.0
[ greg -- be sure fix the subject when replying to a digest. ] greg wrote: Hi Martin, We need keep that capability of upgrade from anywhere to anywhere if at all possible! That is a huge benefit for our customers and for our managing the scope of testing. Even if we can just keep that from any 70x forward it will be a big help. I know we hope 8.2.0 is rock solid but it may not be so we need an option to downgrade safely. downgrade is _very_ difficult to get right. it's a worthy goal, but given our testing resources, and the natural concentration of both developers and testers on the upgrade scenario, i wouldn't promise downgrade. (and from what cscott has said to me every time i mutter under my breath about upgrade oddness, i'm under the impression that the boot to previous version is really only a failsafe mechanism to keep the box running until your upgrade is successful, and isn't intended as a true downgrade. correct me if i'm wrong, scott.) paul BTW on this issue below, I just talked to a sugar engineer and they plan to fix that before we ship 8.2.0. Thanks, Greg S Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:25:17 +1200 From: Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Code name for 9.1.0 To: Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], devel@lists.laptop.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With olpc-update, it's not critical to update from version x to version x+1 - we can skip versions as we don't depend on a particular package state. (e.g. You can upgrade from 650 to joyride without having to upgrade to 703 first...) In the future that could become significant though if we have system changes affecting datastore format changes or something which might make support easier if upgrading from a known version. I don't think that the ability to skip versions is going to hold long term. The current setup is that olpc-updte does away with all the post-inst and related hooks, which means that running code has to have the smarts to upgrade/downgrade stored data formats (user documents, configuration options, etc). This can get burdensome quickly. As of now for example, the promise of olpc-update (of booting back to the older version sanely) is broken between update-703 and current joyride as the ds format has changed in an incompatible way, and update-703 cannot read the new layout. cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO
Hemant, I have some experience using speech-dispatcher and it seems to me that the XO really doesn't need to run speech-dispatcher any differently than any other computer does (other than getting rid of unnecessary dependencies of course). My understanding of what you want to do is that you want your contro,l panel to change the default settings in speechd.conf and restart speech-dispatcher so that all Activities that use speech will have these new default values to work with. To my mind doing this (if I understand you correctly) is like burning down your house to cook a pig. Speech-dispatcher lets you override pretty much anything in speechd.conf. Since that is true, isn't the real problem how to give Sugar Activities a way to get these values set up for them using some data store maintained by your control panel? The data store doesn't have to be speechd.conf. It could be any file that can be updated by your control panel and read by other Activities. The Sugar API could have a method that takes the speechd client as a parameter and applies all the system-wide defaults that you are maintaining to it. After that the Activity could make changes on its own and save the values as meta information or whatever. So basically in my proposal speech-dispatcher starts up the normal way with whatever default values are set. Your control panel maintains its own values in a datastore that the Sugar API can read. Activities use the Sugar API to set speech to these values, or they would use meta information to store their own values and use those values to initialize the SD client. An Activity *could* just use whatever defaults were in speechd.conf, but that would be considered bad form. In any case, speechd does not have to run with dangerous permissions and Sugar Activities should get the benefit of your control panel with minimal work. James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: debuginfo rpms in the olpc_development repo
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:28:50AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Including more debuginfo rpms would be quite helpful for debugging work. Today I spent a fair chunk of time rebuilding packages to get the debuginfo's. I use to go to http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/search , find the page for the rpm version I want, and download the corresponding debuginfo package. Haven't had to rebuild any package to obtain the debuginfo rpm. This is what I *should* have been doing yesterday. Thank you. That said, I believe Dennis Gilmore is working on improving the state of our repositories. One benefit should be enabling debuginfo-acquisition and installation via command-line tools on the XO. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Help! Summarizing the xulrunner situation in OLPC
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 11:51 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: The dependency chain there looks suspect. i.e. it's odd that libgnome is bringing in metacity... Yeah. It's because libgnome brings in fedora-gnome-theme which then (somewhere along the way) brings in a metacity theme which then brings in metacity. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
Hi Emiliano, we have this right now: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Frame#03 So in the 8.2.0 release you can trust to have an indication of how much space is available. About having a notification to popup when space runs low, you should enter a enhancement request in trac. Perhaps too late to get in 8.2.0 but could be in a later release for sure. Regards, Tomeu On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Emiliano Pastorino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all your answers. The thing is we're having some trouble here in Uruguay with xos that run out of disk space. Kids download lots of activities, take lots of pictures and videos and they manage to use all free space they have. When that happens, it seems that sugar won't load in some cases or takes too long to do it. That's why we want to give some kind of warning when they have used, I don't know, 95% of disk space or so, so they can delete some stuff before everything crashes. We'll try to figure out something, but help will be appreciated! On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/7/16 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Two answers: similar issues. This is going to be handled by the notification system, which is in its infancy in the upcoming 8.2 release, but should mature and I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. I believe that was the plan of record in previous conversations; I hope I'm not mistaken. What we have implemented now is some basic notifications generated and consumed in the shell, so we haven't added any public API for now. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Thanks for the comment, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Emiliano Pastorino LATU - Plan Ceibal Av. Italia 6201 CP: 11500, Montevideo, Uruguay Tel: (598 2) 601 3724 int.: 469 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Emiliano, we have this right now: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Frame#03 So in the 8.2.0 release you can trust to have an indication of how much space is available. About having a notification to popup when space runs low, you should enter a enhancement request in trac. Perhaps too late to get in 8.2.0 but could be in a later release for sure. Right, we absolutely need this. Hopefully in the future this will improve when we have robust backup/restore integrated with the Journal, so that old and unused Journal entries can fall off the machine over time and keep space free. We'll still need the alert, of course; the notification system just wasn't quite ready in time for 8.2.0. A ticket would be appreciated (assign to interface-design for now). Thanks! - Eben Regards, Tomeu On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Emiliano Pastorino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all your answers. The thing is we're having some trouble here in Uruguay with xos that run out of disk space. Kids download lots of activities, take lots of pictures and videos and they manage to use all free space they have. When that happens, it seems that sugar won't load in some cases or takes too long to do it. That's why we want to give some kind of warning when they have used, I don't know, 95% of disk space or so, so they can delete some stuff before everything crashes. We'll try to figure out something, but help will be appreciated! On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/7/16 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Two answers: similar issues. This is going to be handled by the notification system, which is in its infancy in the upcoming 8.2 release, but should mature and I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. I believe that was the plan of record in previous conversations; I hope I'm not mistaken. What we have implemented now is some basic notifications generated and consumed in the shell, so we haven't added any public API for now. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Thanks for the comment, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Emiliano Pastorino LATU - Plan Ceibal Av. Italia 6201 CP: 11500, Montevideo, Uruguay Tel: (598 2) 601 3724 int.: 469 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Release Process Updates to Build Section
Hi Dennis, When you have a chance, can you update the Release Process Home page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Process_Home#Types_of_Builds If you can define the olpc3 build train that will help. Any other suggestions you have for understanding our build process and helping people use it are appreciated. You can also include some comments about working upstream etc if you want. If any of this already documented and correct you can just add a link to it. e.g. I saw this http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developer/Fedora Edit right in to the page if you think your info is well known and agreed. If not, you may want to send you info to this list for comment one time. Any edits to that section in general are also appreciated, especially this part: For a developer wanting to contribute new code we recommend the following steps: Thanks, Greg S ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Network manager 0.7 for Joyride
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 16:50, Daniel Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The functionality is actually part of NetworkManager 0.6 upstream, so they are not patches in the usual sense. The problem is that the functionality was not carried forward upstream to 0.7. Anyway, Sjoerd has apparently completed the work porting the mesh functionality from 0.6 to 0.7. No more attention is needed in that area. What we need now is for someone to port the sugar components to use the new NetworkManager D-Bus API. NM 0.7 introduces a new D-Bus API and no longer supports the old one, which is what we use in sugar. I would love to work on this, but can't until the 28th. so if anyone wants to tackle it first I'm sure I could find SOMETHING else to work on then... bobby ... without breaking the existing use of 0.6, where that is available... ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Programming environments on the XO
Hi, There has been talk about expanding Pippy to support a variety of programming languages, perhaps as plugins; to add syntax highlighting; and general interest in seeing Develop proceed. Pippy's always had syntax highlighting, see: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Pippy.png The gtksourceview2 library we're using has support for syntax highlighting almost all programming languages, not just Python. If someone has another educationally-appropriate programming language in mind, I think it'd be short work to add support for it into Pippy. Gathering tutorial code for the new language would be harder work. Syntax highlighting in Write has been brought up as well. C and Javascript environments have been specifically highlighted, since C is used for a fair bit of code that we ship; but enthusiasts of Ruby and many other languages have considered providing an intro dev environment as a standalone activity, one per language. And HTML creation is possible in Write but without highlighting, and it is not obvious how to put this to good use. I'd be happy to switch over to embedding a Write buffer into Pippy, once it has syntax highlighting. Another useful feature would be for Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/ZTUACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSdzwCfXnq/N5tEk/jhuBttxx77vauD wtkAnj4JzHOxwswpf/12WKnoPeKA4LBd =FTjC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Video Chat
Ricardo, I do, and I'm going to repeat this test to collect more info. Regards, Joe --- At 11:57 AM 7/16/2008, Ricardo Carrano wrote: Guillaume, On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Guillaume Desmottes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le mercredi 16 juillet 2008 à 09:31 -0300, Ricardo Carrano a écrit : I am trying to install the Video Chat activity, in order to check #7511. Following instructions in: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-April/013227.html Fetching the rpms from: http://people.collabora.co.uk/~cassidy/olpc-video-chat/ All the rpms installs ok but the last which fails on dependency for libtelepathy-glib.so.0. Where can I get this lib? I tried some obvious things, like yum install libtelepathy, but it didn't help. Humm this is weird. Which build are you using? Could you check what rpm -qa | telepathy returns ? It is candidate-708: telepathy-gabble-0.7.1-0.8.olpc2 telepathy-salut-0.2.3-1.olpc2 telepathy-filesystem-0.0.1-2.fc7 telepathy-glib-0.6.1-1.olpc2 This version is too old. telepathy-stream-engine requires at least telepathy-glib 0.7.6. You should try using Joyride. Ok, thanks! Mm, I just don't get how joe (Joe, are you listening to this?) reported that the video-chat activity saturates bandwidth (#7511) on build 708. Have you seen this ticket? Cheers! Ricardo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:16:07AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: If we cannot bring all the abiword potential to Sugar's Write, we risk someone will start asking for running unsugarized OpenOffice or Abiword on the XO, just as happened with Browse :/ Given the quantity of free software available for Linux distributions relative to the quantity of available sugarized applications, I believe that repeats of this pattern will be inevitable. As I understand, there are a variety of problems with the use of unsugarized applications: - UI issues because of high screen dpi and small size. - Journal integration. - Resource utilization. - Bitfröst and security concerns. - Collaboration. I expect there are others and would be happy to know them so that I better understand this problem. --- By simplifying Journal integration and collaboration, the following steps might improve our ability to support unsugarized apps without sacrificing much in the way of user experience. To simplify Journal/datastore integration: *) Remove the Bitfröst application isolation scheme or modify it such that Activities could write to arbitrary locations in which the olpc user has write permissions. This would allow unsugarized activities to write to places they (as Linux apps) expect to be able to write, such as /home/olpc/ (e.g. for configuration settings and saving user files). *) Make the Journal a watcher and indexer instead of a gatekeeper to the user's data so that applications no longer need to be ported to write data and metadata via the datastore API. We could use inotify(7) to add a watch to the user's home directory. The watching application (Journal) could hold a table of typically used files - Activities / applications. We would still require work to establish which frequently changed files (configuration files, caches) we should be ignoring, and to set default save directories. If a kid writes a file to a very strange place, inotify handlers will allow the journal to keep track of it. Existing code (used for similar indexing applications on Linux desktop systems) could be used to glean file metadata. After modified files are located and metadata gleaned, the Journal would be free to play the same role as it currently does. To provide a fallback, base-level collaboration system: *) Offer a collaboration directory in the user's /home/olpc/, such that simple filesharing can take place. This directory could be managed similarly (reactively to user-driven events) using inotify and a collaboration daemon which manages the broadcast and sharing of files. I'm imagining a network-shared directory such as those found in systems such as NFS, sshfs, samba, etc. --- These are just shiny ideas. I thought I would posit them publicly for eventual comment. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO and accompanying security issues
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 05:21:57PM +0530, Hemant Goyal wrote: The corresponding strace outputs are : open(/var/log//speechd.log, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_APPEND, 0666) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) open(/var/log//espeak.log, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) Your software is attempting to create-or-truncate its pid-file and log-files and is failing. If you make these files world-writable (or at least speechd writable) by, e.g., touch /var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid chmod a+w /var/run/speech-dispatcher.pid ... (repeat for speechd.log and espeak.log) What happens when you redo your tests? Michael P.S. - In the long run, speechd should probably learn to run under its own uid(s). Then the appropriate uids can own the appropriate log files. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Code name for 9.1.0 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Hi Paul, Sorry about the subject screw up. That's twice in two days :-( I know that downgrade is hard. The great thing is that the XO supports that very elegantly right now! I don't want to lose that. It saved me once when I upgraded to joyride image without a developer key (doh!) and was locked out. Thanks, Greg S greg wrote: Hi Martin, We need keep that capability of upgrade from anywhere to anywhere if at all possible! That is a huge benefit for our customers and for our managing the scope of testing. Even if we can just keep that from any 70x forward it will be a big help. I know we hope 8.2.0 is rock solid but it may not be so we need an option to downgrade safely. downgrade is _very_ difficult to get right. it's a worthy goal, but given our testing resources, and the natural concentration of both developers and testers on the upgrade scenario, i wouldn't promise downgrade. (and from what cscott has said to me every time i mutter under my breath about upgrade oddness, i'm under the impression that the boot to previous version is really only a failsafe mechanism to keep the box running until your upgrade is successful, and isn't intended as a true downgrade. correct me if i'm wrong, scott.) paul ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Erik Garrison wrote: | On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:16:07AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: | Given the quantity of free software available for Linux distributions | relative to the quantity of available sugarized applications, I believe | that repeats of this pattern will be inevitable. I am not so sure. Given the tremendous amount of crappy duplicate software, I suspect that we only need to execute a handful of ports to achieve complete functionality. Conversely, there is no good Free video editor for Linux, easy 3D modeler, numerical analysis environment so in many cases, there's simply nothing to port. | As I understand, there are a variety of problems with the use of | unsugarized applications: | | - UI issues because of high screen dpi and small size. | - Journal integration. | - Resource utilization. | - Bitfröst and security concerns. | - Collaboration. | | I expect there are others and would be happy to know them so that I | better understand this problem. The biggest one, much higher on my list than any of the above, is incompatibility with the Activity launching mechanism and window manager. ~ Because of this issue, standard X/Linux applications that have been correctly repackaged as .xo bundles won't even start. It appears that switching to the Freedesktop.org startup notification system and a modified metacity window manager may be able to resolve this. | To simplify Journal/datastore integration: | | *) Remove the Bitfröst application isolation scheme or modify it such | that Activities could write to arbitrary locations in which the olpc | user has write permissions. It is already the case that every activity can write to $HOME, which is currently set equal to $SUGAR_ACTIVITY_ROOT/instance/ . This was not always the case, but in any recent build this is not a problem. | *) Make the Journal a watcher and indexer instead of a gatekeeper to | the user's data so that applications no longer need to be ported to | write data and metadata via the datastore API. In my view, the principal reason that this has not been done is that the Journal does not support multiple-file entries. We could tar up all files created into a .tar file, but what is its mime type, and how do you access its contents? Once the datastore supports multi-file entries, it will be trivial to save all created files after each session. | To provide a fallback, base-level collaboration system: | | *) Offer a collaboration directory in the user's /home/olpc/, such that | simple filesharing can take place. I am not sure what you envision here, but I would caution that the difficulty in sharing files is in the low-level network and high-level GUI design. TCP on the mesh has been problematic (#6463), and users cannot be expected to make use of a sharing mechanism that operates only at the command line. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/g/QACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTKVgCgka7WH2Q0AdmOFX4QMCC4eBXT 5pEAoJ3kh0eH8Y0IP6Zul8GYxqsaqFIn =WGf+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Report on `views with many icons' profiling
Hi, Problem: slow switching between views with many icons Test-case: the test consist of switching between the favorites view and the list view. Test were ran once with the ring layout in the favorite view and once with the freeform layout; the xo had 25 activities installed all checked as `favorite'. The action of switching was automated with a timer with period 130ms when the ring layout was selected and 170ms in the case of the freeform layout (as the minimum values permitting complete redraw of the views). Note that there is a noticeable delay when switching to the favorites views when the selected layout is freeform. --- RING layout --- The following tab. and fig. show cpu time usage of the processes taking more cpu time while running the test: (tot% us+sy) - (partial% us+sy) : cmdline - 63.6 : python /usr/bin/sugar-shell 91.2- 27.5 : /usr/bin/X :0 -fp built-ins... 99.5- 8.2 : picker -t30 http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_ring-list/picker.stats.svg (http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_ring-list/picker.stats ) They were obtained by running: $ picker -t30 $ grapher -c3 --- FREEFORM layout --- (tot% us+sy) - (partial% us+sy) : cmdline - 82. : python /usr/bin/sugar-shell 91.6- 9.5 : /usr/bin/X :0 -fp built-ins... 99.4- 7.7 : picker -t30 http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_freeform-list/picker.stats.svg (http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_freeform-list/picker.stats ) ! sugar-shell is taking 20% more cpu time than in the ring layout case. cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for sugar-shell: --- RING layout --- http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_ring-list/cProfile-shell Ordering by function's self-time: % func name 35.6 : cairo.Context.paint 3.9: gtk.Container.add 2. : sugar.graphics.palette.do_paint_below_children 1.9: __setitem__ sugar.util -- 57% Well, this isn't unexpected. But it's interesting when looking at sysprof results (below). --- FREEFORM layout --- http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_freeform-list/cProfile-shell Ordering by function's self-time: % func name 21.6 : _add_weight in sugar/shell/view/home/grid.py 21.5 : _remove_weight in sugar/shell/view/home/grid.py 10.6 : cairo.Context.paint 8.1: __setitem__ sugar.util 5.7: _compute_weight in sugar/shell/view/home/grid.py -- 57.5% ! Box2D would perform better ;) Sysprof results. Well, in sysprof there are many nested levels, so it is much more clear to just look at it. --- RING layout --- http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_ring-list/sysprof.data - most of self-time is spent in the kernel and in X/X-modules. - time spent in the kernel is due to python and X, respectively 60%-40%. - time spent `in X' goes mostly to the geode driver, and then, to Xorg itself and the libexa module. --- FREEFORM layout --- http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/views/favorites_freeform-list/sysprof.data Notes for the ring layout are valid also here. There are two (new) entries in this case and they are taking more time than the X geode module: python's numpy/core/multiarray.so and numpy/core/umath.so. This is in relation with the algorithm used in the freeform layout to avoid icons collisions. thanks, riccardo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:02 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:16:07AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: If we cannot bring all the abiword potential to Sugar's Write, we risk someone will start asking for running unsugarized OpenOffice or Abiword on the XO, just as happened with Browse :/ Given the quantity of free software available for Linux distributions relative to the quantity of available sugarized applications, I believe that repeats of this pattern will be inevitable. Sorry, I wasn't clear above. I wasn't meaning that running unsugarized apps wasn't a desirable thing, just that I believe that activities like Write and Browse bring important value to our mission and would be a pity if these efforts get lost. As I understand, there are a variety of problems with the use of unsugarized applications: - UI issues because of high screen dpi and small size. - Journal integration. - Resource utilization. - Bitfröst and security concerns. - Collaboration. I expect there are others and would be happy to know them so that I better understand this problem. The one I mentioned above, that we can offer a better experience to our users than the one currently offered by existing desktops and apps. By simplifying Journal integration and collaboration, the following steps might improve our ability to support unsugarized apps without sacrificing much in the way of user experience. To simplify Journal/datastore integration: *) Remove the Bitfröst application isolation scheme or modify it such that Activities could write to arbitrary locations in which the olpc user has write permissions. This would allow unsugarized activities to write to places they (as Linux apps) expect to be able to write, such as /home/olpc/ (e.g. for configuration settings and saving user files). You mean abandoning any of the security goals? *) Make the Journal a watcher and indexer instead of a gatekeeper to the user's data so that applications no longer need to be ported to write data and metadata via the datastore API. We could use inotify(7) to add a watch to the user's home directory. The watching application (Journal) could hold a table of typically used files - Activities / applications. We would still require work to establish which frequently changed files (configuration files, caches) we should be ignoring, and to set default save directories. If a kid writes a file to a very strange place, inotify handlers will allow the journal to keep track of it. Existing code (used for similar indexing applications on Linux desktop systems) could be used to glean file metadata. After modified files are located and metadata gleaned, the Journal would be free to play the same role as it currently does. I would love to move to such an scheme, these are the unsolved (for me) issues: - versioning (solved if we use olpcfs?) - consistency inside entries: most probably we'll need several files to represent a single journal entry. The journal thus would need to know when an entry has been fully written so it can be properly presented in the UI. Not too much ;) To provide a fallback, base-level collaboration system: *) Offer a collaboration directory in the user's /home/olpc/, such that simple filesharing can take place. This directory could be managed similarly (reactively to user-driven events) using inotify and a collaboration daemon which manages the broadcast and sharing of files. I'm imagining a network-shared directory such as those found in systems such as NFS, sshfs, samba, etc. Well, once we can share any entry or object from the journal, would we need something like that? Thanks for bringing this issues again, we surely need to keep banging on them. Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Erik Garrison wrote: | On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:16:07AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: | Given the quantity of free software available for Linux distributions | relative to the quantity of available sugarized applications, I believe | that repeats of this pattern will be inevitable. I am not so sure. Given the tremendous amount of crappy duplicate software, I suspect that we only need to execute a handful of ports to achieve complete functionality. Conversely, there is no good Free video editor for Linux, easy 3D modeler, numerical analysis environment so in many cases, there's simply nothing to port. | As I understand, there are a variety of problems with the use of | unsugarized applications: | | - UI issues because of high screen dpi and small size. | - Journal integration. | - Resource utilization. | - Bitfröst and security concerns. | - Collaboration. | | I expect there are others and would be happy to know them so that I | better understand this problem. The biggest one, much higher on my list than any of the above, is incompatibility with the Activity launching mechanism and window manager. ~ Because of this issue, standard X/Linux applications that have been correctly repackaged as .xo bundles won't even start. It appears that switching to the Freedesktop.org startup notification system and a modified metacity window manager may be able to resolve this. Could you point me towards such a .xo bundle ? I will love to test it out against a modified metacity based sugar environment. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
It might be a good longer-term focus to see if we could get some of the Bitfrost ideas pushed upstream rather than diluting them. It has applicability well beyond OLPC and Sugar. -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These are suggestions with a longterm focus. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 01:02:04PM -0400, Erik Garrison wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:16:07AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: If we cannot bring all the abiword potential to Sugar's Write, we risk someone will start asking for running unsugarized OpenOffice or Abiword on the XO, just as happened with Browse :/ Given the quantity of free software available for Linux distributions relative to the quantity of available sugarized applications, I believe that repeats of this pattern will be inevitable. As I understand, there are a variety of problems with the use of unsugarized applications: - UI issues because of high screen dpi and small size. - Journal integration. - Resource utilization. - Bitfröst and security concerns. - Collaboration. I expect there are others and would be happy to know them so that I better understand this problem. --- By simplifying Journal integration and collaboration, the following steps might improve our ability to support unsugarized apps without sacrificing much in the way of user experience. To simplify Journal/datastore integration: *) Remove the Bitfröst application isolation scheme or modify it such that Activities could write to arbitrary locations in which the olpc user has write permissions. This would allow unsugarized activities to write to places they (as Linux apps) expect to be able to write, such as /home/olpc/ (e.g. for configuration settings and saving user files). *) Make the Journal a watcher and indexer instead of a gatekeeper to the user's data so that applications no longer need to be ported to write data and metadata via the datastore API. We could use inotify(7) to add a watch to the user's home directory. The watching application (Journal) could hold a table of typically used files - Activities / applications. We would still require work to establish which frequently changed files (configuration files, caches) we should be ignoring, and to set default save directories. If a kid writes a file to a very strange place, inotify handlers will allow the journal to keep track of it. Existing code (used for similar indexing applications on Linux desktop systems) could be used to glean file metadata. After modified files are located and metadata gleaned, the Journal would be free to play the same role as it currently does. To provide a fallback, base-level collaboration system: *) Offer a collaboration directory in the user's /home/olpc/, such that simple filesharing can take place. This directory could be managed similarly (reactively to user-driven events) using inotify and a collaboration daemon which manages the broadcast and sharing of files. I'm imagining a network-shared directory such as those found in systems such as NFS, sshfs, samba, etc. --- These are just shiny ideas. I thought I would posit them publicly for eventual comment. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Sure, wrap the actual DBus calls with a simplied sugar/python method if you like, but *please* let's implement a listener for that API so that unmodified applications can interact sensibly with Sugar, and so that our system tools activities can interoperate with non-Sugar window managers. Similarly, we should really implement that standard freedesktop.org startup notification spec, so we can get sensible notifications and icons for 'ordinary' applications. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
Thanks, Michael! I was just trying that, but I was missing the XAUTHORITY variable. I think that's going to do the job by now. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:27:21AM -0300, Emiliano Pastorino wrote: Emiliano, I'm not sure of the right way to help you in the long term, but if you want a quick hack, you might try something like: 1. Install a cronjob that runs every few minutes. 2. When it runs, it should check the available space. 3. If it concludes that space is low, pop up a warning. Warnings can be simple X or pygtk programs (see the 'dialog' Linux scripts for ideas). To get this hooked up to the running X display, you'll need to set some environment variables: DISPLAY=:0 XAUTHORITY=/home/olpc/.Xauthority Ask if you need more help. Michael -- Emiliano Pastorino LATU - Plan Ceibal Av. Italia 6201 CP: 11500, Montevideo, Uruguay Tel: (598 2) 601 3724 int.: 469 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Joyride on qemu (was:Write needs your help)
Edward Cherlin wrote: I'll install joyride in qemu when 2.6.4 is ready and give it a go. Remind me when the time comes If you are not on a machine with 3dnow support you cannot run any fedora core 9 based joyride build on qemu (unless you rebuild qemu from the trunk of the subversion archive). Ton van Overbeek ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
Edward Cherlin wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The abi devs have also asked for help in testing Write with non-latin scripts, this is something of high importance for OLPC. I can do that. OK, Cyrillic works. I just entered every key on the layout, upper and lower case. I'll get you lots more writing systems later today. I am _not_ going to test every Chinese character %-[. Which version are you testing? I would say that downloading an Abiword binary 2.6.4 from abisource.com may be best, as that's the version that I hope we'll use in Write for 8.2.0. I'll see about that. Right now I am using Write 55-0ubuntu1, which doesn't say what version it is in those terms. http://abisource.com/wiki/Install_on_Ubuntu is out of date. It says 2.4.6 was in Gutsy, and that 2.6 should have been in Hardy, but what I see is Abiword 2.4.6-3ubuntu3. What actually happened? That's not out of date: Ubuntu ships horribly outdated versions of AbiWord. For a recent (2.6 series) build follow those instructions to add the PPA that we maintain. (Yes, if you don't add our repository, the most recent you can get is the same 2.4.6 that they've had for a long time.) -- Ryan Pavlik www.cleardefinition.com #282 + (442) - [X] A programmer started to cuss Because getting to sleep was a fuss As he lay there in bed Looping 'round in his head was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:37 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lots of reasonable points made on this thread. The two cents I'd like to throw in are: $0.01: we shouldn't feel like shipping unsugarized apps is a failure: better an working app w/ crappy UI than no working app at all! $0.02: my suggestion to replace Browse wasn't to eliminate the sugar-specific UI work, simply to suggest that we could more profitably base it on Firefox than Gecko. Similarly, minimizing the differences between upstream Abiword and write is (IMO) a Good Thing. We should keep our forks as small as possible, so that we can most effectively use the work being done upstream. For Firefox, that means (for example) that we can use upstreams Awesome Bar instead of reimplementing our own url completion. For abiword, it means acknowledging that a lot of our initial Tubes port was/is simply unnecessary now that we have a stream-based collaboration mechanism, and we can/should be able to strip down Write as a consequence. It's possible that we can most fully utilize Abiword/GTK's theme mechanism to make Sugar UI upstreamable as well. Again, the point is to reduce our diffs with upstream. Yes, I agree that this is a goal that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, my experience says that the approach you are suggesting won't be less work than what we are doing right now, because the software components you mentioned aren't so easily malleable as you seem to think. Check out the sources for abiword and gnumeric and grep for MAEMO, do you think those projects will let everyone add their ifdefs to suit their UI choices? Checkout microb-engine from maemo, they include their own patched mozilla. This approach might work well for Nokia and their dozens of engineers working on Maemo, but for the Sugar guys? At this time we would be even more insane than we are and we would have provided a much worst experience to kids. Seriously, embedding a gtk widget like the ones we have in Read, Write and Browse gives a pretty sweet spot in customizability. Adding some buttons and calling methods on that widget is not hard, we actually reuse all the hard work in the upstream project while choosing carefully the way in which we expose that functionality to users. If we count the amount of man-hours that went into those activities and told the nokia executives in charge of maemo, I think that they would be quite surprised... And then, having children and activity authors in general being able to read the code and embed those widgets in their python activities... that's invaluable, in my opinion. A maemo-tinkerer would need to set up a build box in order to add a button to the toolbar of one of those apps. Regards, Tomeu (sorry if I have offended anyone regarding Maemo. I know little about it, just have seen how they integrate with upstream projects and wanted to make the point that this wouldn't work for us) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The abi devs have also asked for help in testing Write with non-latin scripts, this is something of high importance for OLPC. I can do that. OK, Cyrillic works. I just entered every key on the layout, upper and lower case. I'll get you lots more writing systems later today. I am _not_ going to test every Chinese character %-[. Which version are you testing? I would say that downloading an Abiword binary 2.6.4 from abisource.com may be best, as that's the version that I hope we'll use in Write for 8.2.0. I'll see about that. Right now I am using Write 55-0ubuntu1, which doesn't say what version it is in those terms. http://abisource.com/wiki/Install_on_Ubuntu is out of date. It says 2.4.6 was in Gutsy, and that 2.6 should have been in Hardy, but what I see is Abiword 2.4.6-3ubuntu3. What actually happened? But is the question testing stock Abiword or Write? Or do you want me to do both? Sorry, what I meant is that, ideally, we would be testing Write in joyride with the 2.6.4 version. As we don't have that version in joyride yet, I think the closest we can do is testing Abiword 2.6.4. Regarding language support, I expect it to be the same as Write, but as always, it's better to test what is going to be delivered. Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Sure, wrap the actual DBus calls with a simplied sugar/python method if you like, but *please* let's implement a listener for that API so that unmodified applications can interact sensibly with Sugar, and so that our system tools activities can interoperate with non-Sugar window managers. Similarly, we should really implement that standard freedesktop.org startup notification spec, so we can get sensible notifications and icons for 'ordinary' applications. Yes, what you asked for is what we aim for ;) Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2176
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2176 Changes in build 2176 from build: 2175 Size delta: -24.64M -gnome-python2 2.22.1-2.fc9 +gnome-python2 2.22.1-3.olpc3 -gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-2.fc9 +gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-3.olpc3 -audiofile 1:0.2.6-8.fc9 -bluecurve-icon-theme 8.0.2-1.fc9 -control-center-filesystem 1:2.22.2.1-1.fc9 -esound-libs 1:0.2.38-7.fc9 -fedora-gnome-theme 8.0.0-2.fc9 -fedora-icon-theme 1.0.0-1.fc8 -fedora-logos 9.0.0-2.fc9 -gail 1.22.3-1.fc9 -gnome-icon-theme 2.22.0-6.fc9 -gnome-keyring 2.22.3-1.fc9 -gnome-python2-bonobo 2.22.1-2.fc9 -gnome-themes 2.22.0-1.fc9 -gtk-nodoka-engine 0.7.0-1.fc9 -libart_lgpl 2.3.20-1.fc9 -libbonoboui 2.22.0-2.fc9 -libgnomecanvas 2.20.1.1-2.fc9 -libgnome 2.22.0-3.fc9 -libgnomeui 2.22.1-2.fc9 -libutempter 1.1.5-2.fc9 -metacity 2.22.0-3.fc9 -nodoka-metacity-theme 0.3.90-1.fc9 -pyorbit 2.14.3-2.fc9 --- Changes for gnome-python2 2.22.1-3.olpc3 from 2.22.1-2.fc9 --- + gnome-python modularisation to remove dependencies --- Changes for gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-3.olpc3 from 2.22.1-2.fc9 --- + gnome-python modularisation to remove dependencies -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Java
Tomeu, can you check if the java plugin gets installed in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins? Can you tell me how did you installed it? Which rpms/tarballs did you use? I'm answering on David's behalf. It sounds like he saw the restricted formats page and my bug report and got discouraged. I filed #6465 which is the plugin fails to load ticket. I have tried jre and jdk 1.5.0_13. The rpms I used are: jdk-1_5_0_13-linux-i586-rpm.bin and jre-1_5_0_13-linux-i586-rpm.bin. I have tried various update-1 builds and joyride build 2137. This is with various builds of browse up to 92. I installed Java as described in the restricted formats page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Restricted_Formats In all cases the behavior is the same. the Java install proceeds normally. Java is available directly to run Java applications. The Java plugin is found if I run Firefox under XFCE. The same plugin is not sucessfully loaded by Browse. The plugin does not show in 'about:plugins' in Browse. See trac #6465 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6465 for more details and discussion. Dennis, I would suggest that you yum install java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin and try use it instead. Fedora 9 gives us a truely free java its based on openjdk with some bits pulled in from icedtea to replace the non-free bits. it passes the java test suites and is a certified java. I will try this and report back. Bob ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Abiword 2.6.4 on Ubuntu (was Re: [sugar] Write needs your help)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, what I meant is that, ideally, we would be testing Write in joyride with the 2.6.4 version. As we don't have that version in joyride yet, I think the closest we can do is testing Abiword 2.6.4. Thanks, Tomeu It appears that the 2.6.4 sources aren't configured to build correctly on Ubuntu using configure and GNU make. ./configure reports configure: error: No package 'glib-2.0' found (The correct name on Ubuntu is libglib2.0-0) Then make says: Building AbiSuite with [ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4] make ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4 -C src make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' I can't seem to figure out which platform you are using. You should probably try using the autoconfiscated build system (rather than this, the deprecated and unsupported diving make system) by running configure (creating it with autogen.sh if need be) and using GNU Make. Using configure is a requirement for all known platforms that aren't some form of Windows, QNX Neutrino, or MacOS X. exit 1 make[1]: *** [fake-target] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' make: *** [compile] Error 2 Does anybody have a workaround? Would someone like to fix configure to work on Ubuntu? Do the makefiles need any change? So far I have the old version of Write that Ubuntu offers accepting and displaying Cyrillic and Greek correctly. I'll wait until I have something up-to-date to test before proceeding to the other 30+ possibilities. Kim, should we create a process for globalization QA? We need testing for Amharic, Arabic, Khmer, -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Abiword 2.6.4 on Ubuntu
Hi, It appears that the 2.6.4 sources aren't configured to build correctly on Ubuntu using configure and GNU make. No, you're just missing the libglib2.0-dev package. ./configure reports configure: error: No package 'glib-2.0' found (The correct name on Ubuntu is libglib2.0-0) It's talking about pkgconfig packages, not Ubuntu ones. Then make says: make won't work until configure has run successfully. - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Sugar Almanac Update - Using Pango, Internationalization
Hello All, I've put up some sample code and instructions on using Pango to render fonts in your sugar activities. I've also written up an updated set of steps to internationalize your activity based on the instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Python_i18n and my own experience getting text to translate. For those of you working on Pootle and other elements of internationalization, please feel free to update and change any parts of the Almanac to reflect where things are right now. You can visit the Almanac at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Almanac. As always, please send any feedback or comments. Also, feel free to add any new code snippets or alternative ways of doing things that are documented in the almanac. Best, Faisal ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree that this is a goal that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, my experience says that the approach you are suggesting won't be less work than what we are doing right now, because the software components you mentioned aren't so easily malleable as you seem to think. Your argument might be correct for Abiword (I haven't look at the code) but are completely off-base for Firefox, which is based on a very sophisticated XUL/Javascript/XML based extensibility framework, with far better developer support than we currently have for Python. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:27 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope our alert system will use the freedesktop.org standard: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/index.php It is widely used in Gnome, and when I last reviewed it seems to be a solid and capable spec. The interfaces in that spec look quite good, although perhaps would benefit from a simpler, alternative API that also abstracts the D-Bus stuff. Perhaps rainbow should do some rate limiting or permissions checking, not sure. Sure, wrap the actual DBus calls with a simplied sugar/python method if you like, but *please* let's implement a listener for that API so that unmodified applications can interact sensibly with Sugar, and so that our system tools activities can interoperate with non-Sugar window managers. Similarly, we should really implement that standard freedesktop.org startup notification spec, so we can get sensible notifications and icons for 'ordinary' applications. Yes, what you asked for is what we aim for ;) Yay! --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Abiword 2.6.4 on Ubuntu (was Re: Write needs your help)
Edward Cherlin wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, what I meant is that, ideally, we would be testing Write in joyride with the 2.6.4 version. As we don't have that version in joyride yet, I think the closest we can do is testing Abiword 2.6.4. Thanks, Tomeu It appears that the 2.6.4 sources aren't configured to build correctly on Ubuntu using configure and GNU make. ./configure reports configure: error: No package 'glib-2.0' found (The correct name on Ubuntu is libglib2.0-0) Then make says: Building AbiSuite with [ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4] make ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4 -C src make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' I can't seem to figure out which platform you are using. You should probably try using the autoconfiscated build system (rather than this, the deprecated and unsupported diving make system) by running configure (creating it with autogen.sh if need be) and using GNU Make. Using configure is a requirement for all known platforms that aren't some form of Windows, QNX Neutrino, or MacOS X. exit 1 make[1]: *** [fake-target] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' make: *** [compile] Error 2 Does anybody have a workaround? Would someone like to fix configure to work on Ubuntu? Do the makefiles need any change? So far I have the old version of Write that Ubuntu offers accepting and displaying Cyrillic and Greek correctly. I'll wait until I have something up-to-date to test before proceeding to the other 30+ possibilities. Kim, should we create a process for globalization QA? We need testing for Amharic, Arabic, Khmer, You might want to look at the Ubuntu instructions on abisource.com to add the abiword-stable PPA, which will give you packages of a recent version (2.6.3 right now, I'm very close to putting up 2.6.4) and furthermore it will let you get source packages (just add the deb-src line to match) and apt-get build-dep abiword Ryan -- Ryan Pavlik www.cleardefinition.com #282 + (442) - [X] A programmer started to cuss Because getting to sleep was a fuss As he lay there in bed Looping 'round in his head was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Abiword 2.6.4 on Ubuntu (was Re: [sugar] Write needs your help)
This from the abiword on ubuntu webpage (http://abisource.com/wiki/Install_on_Ubuntu) At this time, the latest version available directly from Ubuntu is an Ubuntu-modified 2.4.6. We are working to get AbiWord 2.6 in Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron and adding their repo installs 2.6.4... but if you need the source that should work too I can build it without problems on my hardy system... just requires a lot of development library dependencies like below, you need to install libglib2.0-dev Kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, what I meant is that, ideally, we would be testing Write in joyride with the 2.6.4 version. As we don't have that version in joyride yet, I think the closest we can do is testing Abiword 2.6.4. Thanks, Tomeu It appears that the 2.6.4 sources aren't configured to build correctly on Ubuntu using configure and GNU make. ./configure reports configure: error: No package 'glib-2.0' found (The correct name on Ubuntu is libglib2.0-0) Then make says: Building AbiSuite with [ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4] make ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4 -C src make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' I can't seem to figure out which platform you are using. You should probably try using the autoconfiscated build system (rather than this, the deprecated and unsupported diving make system) by running configure (creating it with autogen.sh if need be) and using GNU Make. Using configure is a requirement for all known platforms that aren't some form of Windows, QNX Neutrino, or MacOS X. exit 1 make[1]: *** [fake-target] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' make: *** [compile] Error 2 Does anybody have a workaround? Would someone like to fix configure to work on Ubuntu? Do the makefiles need any change? So far I have the old version of Write that Ubuntu offers accepting and displaying Cyrillic and Greek correctly. I'll wait until I have something up-to-date to test before proceeding to the other 30+ possibilities. Kim, should we create a process for globalization QA? We need testing for Amharic, Arabic, Khmer, -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: fonts-thai-ttf has been abandoned!
2008/7/3 Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/7/2 C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (It does display correctly on joyride-2098, but the Pangram page indicates that we are missing fonts for Dzongkha (language of Bhutan), Hebrew, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese. These fonts are in the packages 'fonts-hebrew' (1M), 'fonts-japanese' (22M!), 'fonts-chinese' (24M!) and 'fonts-korean' (18M!); hopefully these's a subset of the japanese/chinese/korean fonts which is lighter weight!) Yes, but you aren't going to get away with much less than 10M each. A newly developed font WQY Zenhei has a quite good CJK coverage. (~21K glyphs) The size of its latest version is about 11M and can be further down to ~8M if embedded bitmap fonts stripped. (useful for low res but too small for OLPC) -- Best regards, Yuan Chao ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Abiword 2.6.4 on Ubuntu (was Re: Write needs your help)
I will update that page, indicating that the package upgrade for Hardy was rejected - sorry for the confusion. Ryan David Van Assche wrote: This from the abiword on ubuntu webpage (http://abisource.com/wiki/Install_on_Ubuntu) At this time, the latest version available directly from Ubuntu is an Ubuntu-modified 2.4.6. We are working to get AbiWord 2.6 in Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron and adding their repo installs 2.6.4... but if you need the source that should work too I can build it without problems on my hardy system... just requires a lot of development library dependencies like below, you need to install libglib2.0-dev Kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, what I meant is that, ideally, we would be testing Write in joyride with the 2.6.4 version. As we don't have that version in joyride yet, I think the closest we can do is testing Abiword 2.6.4. Thanks, Tomeu It appears that the 2.6.4 sources aren't configured to build correctly on Ubuntu using configure and GNU make. ./configure reports configure: error: No package 'glib-2.0' found (The correct name on Ubuntu is libglib2.0-0) Then make says: Building AbiSuite with [ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4] make ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4 -C src make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' I can't seem to figure out which platform you are using. You should probably try using the autoconfiscated build system (rather than this, the deprecated and unsupported diving make system) by running configure (creating it with autogen.sh if need be) and using GNU Make. Using configure is a requirement for all known platforms that aren't some form of Windows, QNX Neutrino, or MacOS X. exit 1 make[1]: *** [fake-target] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' make: *** [compile] Error 2 Does anybody have a workaround? Would someone like to fix configure to work on Ubuntu? Do the makefiles need any change? So far I have the old version of Write that Ubuntu offers accepting and displaying Cyrillic and Greek correctly. I'll wait until I have something up-to-date to test before proceeding to the other 30+ possibilities. Kim, should we create a process for globalization QA? We need testing for Amharic, Arabic, Khmer, -- -- Ryan Pavlik www.cleardefinition.com #282 + (442) - [X] A programmer started to cuss Because getting to sleep was a fuss As he lay there in bed Looping 'round in his head was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Abiword 2.6.4 on Ubuntu (was Re: Write needs your help)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, what I meant is that, ideally, we would be testing Write in joyride with the 2.6.4 version. As we don't have that version in joyride yet, I think the closest we can do is testing Abiword 2.6.4. Thanks, Tomeu It appears that the 2.6.4 sources aren't configured to build correctly on Ubuntu using configure and GNU make. ./configure reports configure: error: No package 'glib-2.0' found (The correct name on Ubuntu is libglib2.0-0) No, I see that it is the lack of -dev packages. I am now installing them one or two at a time. %-[ Then make says: Building AbiSuite with [ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4] make ABI_ROOT=/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4 -C src make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' I can't seem to figure out which platform you are using. You should probably try using the autoconfiscated build system (rather than this, the deprecated and unsupported diving make system) by running configure (creating it with autogen.sh if need be) and using GNU Make. Using configure is a requirement for all known platforms that aren't some form of Windows, QNX Neutrino, or MacOS X. exit 1 make[1]: *** [fake-target] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mokurai/tmp/abiword/abiword-2.6.4/src' make: *** [compile] Error 2 Does anybody have a workaround? Would someone like to fix configure to work on Ubuntu? Do the makefiles need any change? So far I have the old version of Write that Ubuntu offers accepting and displaying Cyrillic and Greek correctly. I'll wait until I have something up-to-date to test before proceeding to the other 30+ possibilities. Kim, should we create a process for globalization QA? We need testing for Amharic, Arabic, Khmer, -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
project hosting request
1. Project name : Conozco Uruguay
2. Existing website, if any :
3. One-line description : Uruguayan geography educational game
4. Longer description : This activity features a map of Uruguay
with different layers for departments,
: cities, rivers, etc. The game involves
helping an alien rebuild a spaceship by indicating
: the location based on clues. The game
also features an explore mode to discover
: different locations and facts related to them.
5. URLs of similar projects :
6. Committer list
Please list the maintainer (lead developer) as the first entry. Only list
developers who need to be given accounts so that they can commit to your
project's code repository, or push their own. There is no need to list
non-committer developers.
Username Full name SSH2 key URLE-mail
- --
#1 geirea GabrielEirea public key attached [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
#2
#3
...
If any developers don't have their SSH2 keys on the web, please attach them
to the application e-mail.
7. Preferred development model
[X] Central tree. Every developer can push his changes directly to the
project's git tree. This is the standard model that will be familiar to
CVS and Subversion users, and that tends to work well for most projects.
[ ] Maintainer-owned tree. Every developer creates his own git tree, or
multiple git trees. He periodically asks the maintainer to look at one
or more of these trees, and merge changes into the maintainer-owned,
main tree. This is the model used by the Linux kernel, and is
well-suited to projects wishing to maintain a tighter control on code
entering the main tree.
If you choose the maintainer-owned tree model, but wish to set up some
shared trees where all of your project's committers can commit directly,
as might be the case with a discussion tree, or a tree for an individual
feature, you may send us such a request by e-mail, and we will set up the
tree for you.
8. Set up a project mailing list:
[ ] Yes, named after our project name
[ ] Yes, named __
[X] No
When your project is just getting off the ground, we suggest you eschew
a separate mailing list and instead keep discussion about your project
on the main OLPC development list. This will give you more input and
potentially attract more developers to your project; when the volume of
messages related to your project reaches some critical mass, we can
trivially create a separate mailing list for you.
If you need multiple lists, let us know. We discourage having many
mailing lists for smaller projects, as this tends to
stunt the growth of your project community. You can always add more lists
later.
9. Commit notifications
[ ] Notification of commits to the main tree should be e-mailed to the list
we chose to create above
[ ] A separate mailing list, projectname-git, should be created for commit
notifications
[X] No commit notifications, please
10. Shell accounts
As a general rule, we don't provide shell accounts to developers unless
there's a demonstrated need. If you have one, please explain here, and
list the usernames of the committers above needing shell access.
11. Translation
[X] Set up the laptop.org Pootle server to allow translation
commits to be made
[ ] Translation arrangements have already been made at ___
12. Notes/comments:
Thank you!
id_dsa.pub
Description: Binary data
___
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Re: [sugar] Sugar Almanac Update - Using Pango, Internationalization
I've also written up an updated set of steps to internationalize your activity based on the instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Python_i18n and my own experience getting text to translate. I think Faisal's url is: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Internationalization_in_Sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2177
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2177 Changes in build 2177 from build: 2176 Size delta: -0.13M -gnome-python2 2.22.1-3.olpc3 +gnome-python2 2.22.1-4.olpc3 -gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-3.olpc3 +gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-4.olpc3 --- Changes for gnome-python2 2.22.1-4.olpc3 from 2.22.1-3.olpc3 --- + Kill dependency on libbonobo + gnome-python modularisation to remove dependencies --- Changes for gnome-python2-gnomevfs 2.22.1-4.olpc3 from 2.22.1-3.olpc3 --- + Kill dependency on libbonobo -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
I'd vote that we not expend too much effort in supporting multiple development environments in Pippy at the moment--there are so many other high-priority things to be working on. Is there really a lot of demand for this from the field? -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/ZTUACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSdzwCfXnq/N5tEk/jhuBttxx77vauD wtkAnj4JzHOxwswpf/12WKnoPeKA4LBd =FTjC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
On 17 Jul 2008, at 20:37, C. Scott Ananian wrote: $0.01: we shouldn't feel like shipping unsugarized apps is a failure: better an working app w/ crappy UI than no working app at all! Sorry to disagree Scott. I'm not so sure... One 'crappy' UI or weak security riddled activity, leads to a dozen more, and then suddenly no one bothers and it's just a rush to slam in every random feature under the sun – I see a bunch of deviants creeping in and drifting from the Sugar spec already (won't mention names). I understand many hard core developers don't have much interest UI wise, that they think it just visual 'fluff' around their efficient set of classes (I blame badly taught CS classes and different personality types), but UI has a very large impact on user experience, and it is a good chunk of the reason that most *nix desktops have taken __SO__ damn long to get to mainstream (and perhaps why Apple are riding such a good wave just now). As they say, one rotten apple can put you off the rest of the basket. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On 17 Jul 2008, at 20:39, Michael Stone wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:27:21AM -0300, Emiliano Pastorino wrote: Emiliano, I'm not sure of the right way to help you in the long term, but if you want a quick hack, you might try something like: 1. Install a cronjob that runs every few minutes. 2. When it runs, it should check the available space. 3. If it concludes that space is low, pop up a warning. Warnings can be simple X or pygtk programs (see the 'dialog' Linux scripts for ideas). To get this hooked up to the running X display, you'll need to set some environment variables: DISPLAY=:0 XAUTHORITY=/home/olpc/.Xauthority Ask if you need more help. Just out of interest, where is the code that raises the AP network authentication name/pass request? That feels like a pretty close template fit to such a critical warning. I must just say I'm not 100% convinced about how successful a warning will be (but it is better than nothing). I've hit the issue a couple of times and it was not some slow incremental case where I could take sensible action. Both times, as I recall, I was downloading some ~large library or binary which maxed out the space in one go before I realised the size. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Display warnings in sugar
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 2:53 AM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just out of interest, where is the code that raises the AP network authentication name/pass request? That feels like a pretty close template fit to such a critical warning. sugar/src/hardware/keydialog.py Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 20:45 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: I'd vote that we not expend too much effort in supporting multiple development environments in Pippy at the moment--there are so many other high-priority things to be working on. Is there really a lot of demand for this from the field? -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. Cheers Martin - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/ZTUACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSdzwCfXnq/N5tEk/jhuBttxx77vauD wtkAnj4JzHOxwswpf/12WKnoPeKA4LBd =FTjC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Sevior wrote: | Hi Folks, | Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we | haven't put the UI in to enable it. I would like an additional control for background color. Eben, what do you think? | I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea | though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids | want to do this they can. Have you used Gobby? It's the shared editor that people at OLPC _actually_ use, and having per-user background colors is among its key features. The colors are stripped for print; clearing the text colors in a Write document is similarly easy. Per-user coloring could work even better in Write, because text has a foreground and background color, and each user also has a foreground color and a background color that appear all over the UI. Those colors are guaranteed to have good contrast against each other, as required in the rest of the UI. Automatically setting the user's text to those settings in a shared Write session would make it instantly obvious who is typing what. I would most prefer a design in which the scheme is black on white by default. When the first user shares the document, the text entry colors are converted to her XO colors, but the existing text is not altered. As each user joins, that person's colors are set to their XO colors, but users may modify their color settings at any time after join+share. It occurs to me that this may work best if colors can be made more sticky, so that anything I type keeps my current colors, not the colors of the text I've selected or am typing into. This is a tricky UI question, which I will leave to the UI folks. Perhaps a sticky checkbox next to the color selectors that checks itself upon sharing? - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/9LYACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTiFQCgiwn7n2I5FT253t30YxDAN57M D2wAn0Qaw5gkl/4X/wOsQwYjZ13g/pXw =ovJY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Uruguay CEIBAL booklet
Hi friends, Thought devel@ should enjoy this too... (Apologies if this is old news to you) found via http://olpc-ceibal.blogspot.com/ Ceibal in the 21st century... a book from Uruguay full of XO pictures, comics and Spanish text that I can't read :) http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/gobiernoelectronico/pdf_libro/Libro_CEIBAL_en_la_sociedad_del_siglo_XXI.pdf This is great! More, please! Cheers, Brian Jordan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On 18 Jul 2008, at 02:25, Martin Sevior wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. The codingmonkeys with their great SubEthaEdit also made very good use out of background colour tints to indicate authorship. Works really well: http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/images/sessionbig.png As I remember, there is a button to toggle the background colours on and off depending what you want to see (and I think mouse over pop-ups in addition to show the authorship of a text block). Now if I actually had other friends to work with, SubEthaEdit, would have been my editor of choice ;-) --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 20:45 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: I'd vote that we not expend too much effort in supporting multiple development environments in Pippy at the moment--there are so many other high-priority things to be working on. Is there really a lot of demand for this from the field? -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. Cheers Martin It will be much more of a mess if you can't tell who wrote what in a collaborative editing session. Does Abiword provide change tracking, so that users can turn author coloring on and off at will? -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Uruguay CEIBAL booklet
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Brian Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/gobiernoelectronico/pdf_libro/Libro_CEIBAL_en_la_sociedad_del_siglo_XXI.pdf This is great! More, please! It is great - the writing is well thought out, though I haven't read it all in depth, it seems like a very good quality job. I did a quick translation of the jokes, some are rather good, and they definitely take on some of the issues head on - make sure you look at the pic before you read the translation below... Page 58 - a section about e-govt Consultant: At least in one sense, governor, the citizen consultation portal is a runaway success. Received 30K messages, meaning a thousand-fold increase in participation. Governor: great! so why should we be worried? Consultant: all of them asking that you resign Page 36 heh! a blackboard and chalk for every classroom? and notebooks for all kids? great! What's next, free schooling too? Page 33 - background sign: teacher training courses young trainer: don't be scared, teacher. Most of the time, using the internet is as easy as writing what you are looking for in a box, and hitting 'search'. What would you like to search for now, for example? teacher: BPS and initiating retirement paperwork (I think BPS is the retirement fund scheme in Uy) Page 64 - c'mon old man. grab the laptop, it won't bite Page 76 - don't tell me you are tracking the milk yield in a spreasheet to optimise the production of each cow with a statistical base...? no, right now I am playing tetris page 83 woman: Do something Bernie! Kids have been 3hs stuck to the screen, and when it's not naked women doing naughty stuff, it's people gored by bullets or racists jokes! man: ok! I'll go and turn the computer off, and done! woman: What computer? The television, Bernie, the TV! Page 54: mom: you told dad that doing the paperwork (tramites is generic for any govt paperwork) with the laptop he would skip the queues and save time... but he's been sitting there frozen for the last hour and half! kid: he got the paperwork done in 5 minutes... it's the shock that's lasting more than 1 hr... enjoy, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 02:53 +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: On 18 Jul 2008, at 02:25, Martin Sevior wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. The codingmonkeys with their great SubEthaEdit also made very good use out of background colour tints to indicate authorship. Works really well: http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/images/sessionbig.png As I remember, there is a button to toggle the background colours on and off depending what you want to see (and I think mouse over pop-ups in addition to show the authorship of a text block). Now if I actually had other friends to work with, SubEthaEdit, would have been my editor of choice ;-) This is a good idea for coding. We do not do this at present, though we do have different colored carets. Cheers Martin --Gary ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 18:54 -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 20:45 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: I'd vote that we not expend too much effort in supporting multiple development environments in Pippy at the moment--there are so many other high-priority things to be working on. Is there really a lot of demand for this from the field? -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. Cheers Martin It will be much more of a mess if you can't tell who wrote what in a collaborative editing session. Does Abiword provide change tracking, so that users can turn author coloring on and off at will? AbiWord has change tracking but my experience with it is that it is more trouble than it's worth. That said, there is a bug in AbiWord-2.6.4 so that if you turn change tracking on all changes in a collaborative document are marked with the same colour. I'd better fix this so that different users get different colours during a collaboration session. Is there some feedback from the field about how kids are finding collaborative writing? Do they use it all? Cheers Martin ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
The open source project Gobby also uses this sort of who-wrote-what text highlighting, SJ and I have recently (right before he left for Wikimania) been looking into getting similar functionality on the XO. Having this highlighting integrated with Write would be fantastic. Brian On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 18:54 -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 20:45 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: I'd vote that we not expend too much effort in supporting multiple development environments in Pippy at the moment--there are so many other high-priority things to be working on. Is there really a lot of demand for this from the field? -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. Cheers Martin It will be much more of a mess if you can't tell who wrote what in a collaborative editing session. Does Abiword provide change tracking, so that users can turn author coloring on and off at will? AbiWord has change tracking but my experience with it is that it is more trouble than it's worth. That said, there is a bug in AbiWord-2.6.4 so that if you turn change tracking on all changes in a collaborative document are marked with the same colour. I'd better fix this so that different users get different colours during a collaboration session. Is there some feedback from the field about how kids are finding collaborative writing? Do they use it all? Cheers Martin ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 23:32 -0400, Brian Jordan wrote: The open source project Gobby also uses this sort of who-wrote-what text highlighting, SJ and I have recently (right before he left for Wikimania) been looking into getting similar functionality on the XO. Having this highlighting integrated with Write would be fantastic. OK Guys, I get the message :-) I'll look to see how this can be enabled by default in the most UI-easy way possible. In the meantime one can fudge this very simply by having each user agree to use their own color for writing text. ie Joe chooses red, Alice choose green, Sarah chooses blue etc. When everyone is happy with the final document choose select-all and change all colours to black. This will work immediately. BTW people might interested in our new service: http://abicollab.net As an easy way to share and collaborate on document creation in a scalable world-wide fashion. With this you can easily setup group documents and work on them in real-time (just like Write does). AbiWord-2.6.4 has the code to connect to this but it is not enabled by default as we're still working on some final bug fixes. You'll have to compile your own version by passing --enable-abicollab --with-abicollab-service-backend to the configure stage when you compile the plugins. Here is my configure line for abiword-plugins (which includes my favourite plugins). ./configure --with-abiword=../abiword-2.6 --prefix=/home/msevior/abidir --disable-all --enable-abicollab --with-abicollab-service-backend --enable-abimathview --enable-abicommand --enable-loadbindings --enable-presentation --enable-OpenDocument Cheers, Martin Brian On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 18:54 -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Martin Sevior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 20:45 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: I'd vote that we not expend too much effort in supporting multiple development environments in Pippy at the moment--there are so many other high-priority things to be working on. Is there really a lot of demand for this from the field? -walter On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Another useful feature would be for | Write to have unique background colors for collaborators, as Gobby does. | I wonder if that would be a small enough task for someone to take on. See also #7447. Currently, Write doesn't support background colors at all. Hi Folks, Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we haven't put the UI in to enable it. libabiword supports background colors. If the Powers That Be decide that this is an important feature for children it is very easy to implement it. Every feature of AbiWord is present in libabiword, say the word and we'll implement it for Write. I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids want to do this they can. Cheers Martin It will be much more of a mess if you can't tell who wrote what in a collaborative editing session. Does Abiword provide change tracking, so that users can turn author coloring on and off at will? AbiWord has change tracking but my experience with it is that it is more trouble than it's worth. That said, there is a bug in AbiWord-2.6.4 so that if you turn change tracking on all changes in a collaborative document are marked with the same colour. I'd better fix this so that different users get different colours during a collaboration session. Is there some feedback from the field about how kids are finding collaborative writing? Do they use it all? Cheers Martin ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
