Re: [Olpc-uruguay] Convocatoria al Ceibal Jam 2: El sábado próximo, vení a programar!
Entre los días 25 a 28 de septiembre inclusive, se estarán realizando en la Regional Norte de la Universidad de la República las III Jornadas de Educación y TIC, la XO una herramienta para apropiarse de la tecnología. Las mismas cuentan además con el apoyo de la varias instituciones de Salto, el IFD, el CERP, la Intendencia Municipal, la Junta Departamental, y el Grupo de Usuarios de Software Libre. También cuentan con el apoyo, al igual que en ediciones anteriores, de Ciencias de la Comunicación de la UDELAR, de los Centros MEC, RAP Ceibal, el UYLUG, ARTECH y otros organismos que están confirmando en estos días su apoyo. A continuación el programa del evento: *III Jornadas de Educación y TIC - La XO una herramienta para apropiarse de la tecnología* Salto, 25 al 28 de Setiembre, Regional Norte de la Universidad de la República. *Conferencias* * *Web 2.0 y su incidencia en el ámbito educativo* Ing. Diego Roselli * *La XO como herramienta para la apropiación de la tecnología* Prof. Fernando da Rosa (UDELAR) * *La logística del Plan CEIBAL* Lic. Gustavo Quartara (Responsable de la Logística del Plan CEIBAL - LATU) * *Cómo aplicar la investigación en el aula a través de la tecnología* María Mendez - Maria Ana * *Tecnologías de la Información y la Comunicación (TIC) y Desarrollo* Socióloga Ana Laura Rivoir - (UDELAR) * *Centros MEC: una metodología de alfabetización digital* Karina Acosta (Ministerio de Educación y Cultura) * *La democracia digital y la educación de la demanda* Roberto Elissalde (Ministerio de Educación y Cultura) * *Ingreso de las Tecnologías en el Sistema Educativo Formal Terciario* Docentes: Elisabet Castro, Ana Olivera, Lourdes Berretta (Instituto de Formación Docente, IFD Salto) * *Compartir experiencias de trabajo con la XO en Primaria* Docentes de Escuela N.1 de Salto e IFD (Instituto de Formación Docente, IFD Salto) * *Producción de Imágenes con las XO y Fundamentos pedagógicos desde la disciplina: ejemplos de aplicación en el aula.* Centro de Tecnología Educativa (Educación Primaria) *Talleres* *Programación Python* * Duración: 2 días, dos horas por día * Analista de Sistemas Federico Wagner *La actividad Terminal* * Duración: 2 dias, dos horas por día * Prof. Rodolfo Pilas (UCU) *Redacción de blogs* * Duración: 2 días, dos horas por día * Prof. Rodolfo Pilas (UCU) *Wikis en general y DokuWiki* * Duración: 2 días, dos horas por día * Prof. Fernando da Rosa (UDELAR) *Talleres: Operación, manejo de software y uso educativo de las XO* * Duración: 2 días, tres horas por día * Profesores Néstor Flaquer y Graciela Barreto *Taller de Turtle Arte Creando nuestro propio conocimiento* * Duración: 2 días, dos horas por día * Profesores María Ana Falcon - María Mendez (RAP CEIBAL) *Taller: Uso educativo de la Xo - Secuencia: Descubriendo formas* * Duración: 3 días, dos horas por día * Docentes: IFD: Adriana Tognasciolli, Lourdes Berretta, Edit Tironi, Elisabet Castro, Ana Olivera *Taller eTOYS* * Duración: 2 horas * Docentes: Grupo de Informática de Educación Primaria Las inscripciones, la asistencia es libre y gratuita, pueden realizarse a través del siguiente formulario: http://www.linuxsalto.org/?q=node/2 http://www.linuxsalto.org/?q=node/2 Durante las jornadas se distribuirá a los participantes material desarrollado para las mismas por los docentes. También se distribuirá software libre, de libre difusión, modificación y copia, destinado a facilitar el uso de los formatos abiertos que usa la XO en cualquier PC. Se entregará constancia de asistencia. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Almost 50% less free memory in joyride-2302 compared with Update.1 (708)
On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 21:31 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 12:01:07PM +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:47 PM, James Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
...
Btw it's a shame that the python processes are grouped all together. I
wonder if we can fix ps_mem to show them separately, with the full
command.
I agree.
The attached patch makes ps_mem show the process cmdline instead of its
name; it doesn't account for the /proc/[pid]/cmdline particular format
but output it's well readable.
riccardo
--- ps_mem.orig 2008-07-22 08:00:58.0 +0200
+++ ps_mem 2008-08-25 10:01:35.0 +0200
@@ -117,14 +117,16 @@
return (Private, Shared)
def getCmdName(pid):
-cmd = file(/proc/%d/status % pid).readline()[6:-1]
-exe = os.path.basename(os.path.realpath(/proc/%d/exe % pid))
-if exe.startswith(cmd):
-cmd=exe #show non truncated version
-#Note because we show the non truncated name
-#one can have separated programs as follows:
-#584.0 KiB + 1.0 MiB = 1.6 MiBmozilla-thunder (exe - bash)
-# 56.0 MiB + 22.2 MiB = 78.2 MiBmozilla-thunderbird-bin
+cmd = file(/proc/%d/cmdline % pid).readline()[:60]
+if not len(cmd):
+cmd = file(/proc/%d/status % pid).readline()[6:-1]
+exe = os.path.basename(os.path.realpath(/proc/%d/exe % pid))
+if exe.startswith(cmd):
+cmd=exe #show non truncated version
+#Note because we show the non truncated name
+#one can have separated programs as follows:
+#584.0 KiB + 1.0 MiB = 1.6 MiBmozilla-thunder (exe - bash)
+# 56.0 MiB + 22.2 MiB = 78.2 MiBmozilla-thunderbird-bin
return cmd
cmds={}
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Request: Jabber server for developers
The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it doesn't have a shared roster. Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so they need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips) We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long time. I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions for others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe. Regards Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 30, Issue 119
Bert Freudenberg wrote: Am 24.08.2008 um 11:39 schrieb Hilaire Fernandes: I am at the Smalltalk Camp in Amsterdam, with SqueakNOS colleagues we try to start XO machine with SqueakNOS operating system. We don't find the key sequence to boot on USB. We will keep searching but if any of you have direct pointer, thanks. The XO does not have a traditional BIOS, so its boot sequence is different from normal PCs. It is running Open Firmware written in Forth, and the actual boot can be customized by editing the boot/ olpc.fth script on your USB stick: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Olpc.fth You would need to write Forth code to load SqueakNOS and execute it. - Bert - I just added a lot of information to the page cited above. Read it and weep. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 30, Issue 121
paul fox wrote: mitch wrote: Open Firmware can boot ELF binaries directly. Put your .elf file in the root directory on a USB key that is formatted with either a FAT filesystem (preferred) or an ext2 filesystem. Then, on an unsecured XO laptop, type: ok boot u:\myprogram.elf mitch -- where are OFW capabilities such as this, and the client interface mentioned below, documented? (i suspect i've probably seen the doc somewhere in my wiki travels, and didn't at the time recognize it for what it was.) My recent rewrite of the Olpc.fth wiki page documents the basics from the XO perspective. The primary documentation for the client interface is in the IEEE Open Firmware standard; you might be able to find a near-final draft online with a bit of searching. FirmWorks sells a book that explains the client interface in gory detail. There might be a copy floating around 1cc; there are certainly some copies of the FirmWorks OFW command reference manual. The OFW source tree contains some example programs that use the client interface; look in the clients/ subdirectory. A general-purpose call gateway, with templates for all the standard client services, can be found in the Linux kernel source at http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=olpc-2.6;a=blob;f=arch/x86/kernel/ofw.c ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: #7893 -- Presence service gets confused.
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 01:56:51PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: Folks, #7893 was recently upgraded to release-blocker status since it is reported to afflict the Neighborhood view independent of the use of Gabble or Salut and since no reasonable workarounds are known. Please help investigate. I'm currently working on a small test program to test this in a more automated way, to help us reproduce this in our office if possible. Once it's mature i'll probably put it online with instructions so it can be used on a larger scale. Sjoerd -- Nothing is faster than the speed of light ... To prove this to yourself, try opening the refrigerator door before the light comes on. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Fructose 8.2 some activities have not been branched
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 18:41, Korakurider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I noticed that Calculate and Pippy have not been branched in repository while other Fructose 8.2 activities were. Actually, when I pushed translations for Calculate of Fructose82 on Pootle, that was committed to master. (http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/calculate;a=commit;h=61f083e43e176d6cc92dc2213614e9209eebb3b9) Please fix it if we really want to branch activities.. Or can we really maintain them simultaneously? Reinier's branched Calculate. I pinged Chris Ball (pippy). Besides that, how will we identify version of both trunk and branch version of activities? Version number for activities is not like Major.Minor but just integer (until now at least). The scheme seems not good fit for branching. I've raised this several times, and there have been proposals for major.minor, and for supporting the versioning that rpm uses (alphanumeric) - the point being that there needs to be a way to compare two versions and decide which one is later. I think the rpm versioning was favoured because there is existing code which handles those. However, I don't think the conversation was captured in Trac. I think Greg was going to log it but I can't find the ticket. I've now logged #8144. A workaround was suggested to abuse the current version numbers by treating 100 as if it was 1.00, and leaving a gap for stable releases - e.g. Chat-45 in sucrose-0.82, so use Chat-50 or Chat-100 for the next release off master and Chat-46 for the next release of sucrose-0.82. For installing the appropriate version on the appropriate build, the control panel activity updater in joyride/8.2 can track an update_url which can specify which activity version is appropriate for which build stream - e.g. Chat-45 is the latest for 8.2.0, and Chat-47 is the latest for 8.2.1, and Chat-53 is the latest for 9.1.0... but this doesn't solve all the cases where we may want to differentiate the releases in a clearly visible way. Regards Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
I wasn't really thinking that you folks doing the core software would have time for a UI of any kind right now. I think I could create an Activity which would be obsoleted once a WebDAV solution is in place. I've been wanting to create an Activity that would add value and bridge the MS-linux gap. I discovered that pyNeighborhood is open sourced, written in python, uses gtk, runs on the XO, discovers a diverse MS network, and in my opinion has an acceptable UI. All that is missing is browsing the selected share and fetching a file to the journal, inbound, and pasting a clipboard item (from the journal) to a mounted network folder, outbound. I'd like to speak for taking advantage of what's already written, and available in the larger linux community. This seems like low hanging fruit. I'd be willing to roll my own kernel, with CIFS enabled for development purposes. But I don't see how the wider community could review my work or how my new Activity could make a contribution to the wider effort without a decision to enable CIFS in future builds. WebDav is new to me, and interesting. I'm thinking of the kids in city schools, where a parent has an XP desktop, and printer. Is it your idea that WebDAV client would exist on the XO and the parent would download a WebDAV server, and install it on his/her XP machine? Is there someone with WebDAV experience and enthusiasm who I could correspond with? On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 2008/8/24 George Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Two factors tip the balance between bloat and functionality in favor of including CIFS file system in the kernel. First, for any network FS to actually be usable we would need to do significant work on the UI. Including the smb client code is a trivial step, doing a good quality UI is not. And if we are going to include a network FS, there are other alternatives for this. For the usage scenario you are mentioning WebDAV is a much better fit, suited for ocassional file sharing, built on the http stack, and can traverse networks over nat and proxies. Not including CIFS in the XO limits future and unforseen use unnecessarily. Let's rewrite that to 'standardised network file systems'. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:37 PM, George Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wanting to create an Activity that would add value and bridge the MS-linux gap. I discovered that pyNeighborhood is open sourced, written in python, uses gtk, runs on the XO, discovers a diverse MS network, and in my opinion has an acceptable UI. Just avoid making a bridge for that specific gap. :-) If you focus on making something that also happens to work on Windows, then it will work if the other machine is running windows, linux, or osx. There are so many portable ways of doing things that it's not worth spending 5 miuntes in thinking about unportable solutions. Specially when we're wanting to reach high. WebDav is new to me, and interesting. I'm thinking of the kids in city schools, where a parent has a desktop machine that is not an XO, and printer I rewrote that slightly :-) - also, schools might have conventional network printers. Printing will probably be handled via cups. We are missing a lot of infrastructure there (automagic configuration, quota mgmt, some admin tools, ui), and it does make sense to start building it. Just not using platform-specific tools - cups can take care of interoperating. WebDAV is very interoperable. Windows will happily be a client, or a server for it. . Is it your idea that WebDAV client would exist on the XO and the parent would download a WebDAV server, and install it on his/her XP machine? If the 'home computer' is MSWindows-based, I suspect that the IIS version that is published rebranded as PersonalWebServer by MS includes an easy to use WebDAV server. Might need a bit of packaging and prettyfying. Apache2 can also run on Win32 platforms. If the machine is OSX or the many linuxen that are entering the home as 'media centers' or just daddy's machine, they can be WebDAV servers easily too, running Apache. Is there someone with WebDAV experience and enthusiasm who I could correspond with? Lots! WebDAV is implemented very widely - google about, and you'll find tons. I've grafted a WebDAV server into Moodle not long ago. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to boot alternative OS from an USB stick?
Any pointer to what is OFW? I don't find it in the wiki. Hilaire ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: olpc.fth and OFW api docs
mitch wrote: paul fox wrote: mitch wrote: Open Firmware can boot ELF binaries directly. Put your .elf file in the root directory on a USB key that is formatted with either a FAT filesystem (preferred) or an ext2 filesystem. Then, on an unsecured XO laptop, type: ok boot u:\myprogram.elf mitch -- where are OFW capabilities such as this, and the client interface mentioned below, documented? (i suspect i've probably seen the doc somewhere in my wiki travels, and didn't at the time recognize it for what it was.) My recent rewrite of the Olpc.fth wiki page documents the basics from the XO perspective. thanks. that page is now the excellent boot reference i was hoping for. :-) The primary documentation for the client interface is in the IEEE Open Firmware standard; you might be able to find a near-final draft online with a bit of searching. FirmWorks sells a book that explains the client interface in gory detail. There might be a copy floating around 1cc; there are certainly some copies of the FirmWorks OFW command reference manual. The OFW source tree contains some example programs that use the client interface; look in the clients/ subdirectory. A general-purpose call gateway, with templates for all the standard client services, can be found in the Linux kernel source at http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=olpc-2.6;a=blob;f=arch/x86/kernel/ofw.c great. needless to say, i'll be saving this message. (and i'm changing the Subject to make it easier to find.) paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to boot alternative OS from an USB stick?
hilaire wrote: Any pointer to what is OFW? I don't find it in the wiki. search for Open Firmware. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Open_Firmware paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: olpc.fth and OFW api docs
Am 25.08.2008 um 16:11 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: mitch wrote: paul fox wrote: mitch wrote: Open Firmware can boot ELF binaries directly. Put your .elf file in the root directory on a USB key that is formatted with either a FAT filesystem (preferred) or an ext2 filesystem. Then, on an unsecured XO laptop, type: ok boot u:\myprogram.elf mitch -- where are OFW capabilities such as this, and the client interface mentioned below, documented? (i suspect i've probably seen the doc somewhere in my wiki travels, and didn't at the time recognize it for what it was.) My recent rewrite of the Olpc.fth wiki page documents the basics from the XO perspective. thanks. that page is now the excellent boot reference i was hoping for. :-) The primary documentation for the client interface is in the IEEE Open Firmware standard; you might be able to find a near-final draft online with a bit of searching. FirmWorks sells a book that explains the client interface in gory detail. There might be a copy floating around 1cc; there are certainly some copies of the FirmWorks OFW command reference manual. The OFW source tree contains some example programs that use the client interface; look in the clients/ subdirectory. A general-purpose call gateway, with templates for all the standard client services, can be found in the Linux kernel source at http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=olpc-2.6;a=blob;f=arch/x86/kernel/ofw.c great. needless to say, i'll be saving this message. (and i'm changing the Subject to make it easier to find.) Hehe. That's what I thought about too - where to put it on the wiki ;) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to boot alternative OS from an USB stick?
Am 25.08.2008 um 16:14 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hilaire wrote: Any pointer to what is OFW? I don't find it in the wiki. search for Open Firmware. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Open_Firmware Something is severely wrong with the wiki search box. This page works fine: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OFW but does not appear as search result :/ - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to boot alternative OS from an USB stick?
Yes, I finally found it with google. Where is the XO hardaware data spec? Could the driver be piloted throught the firmware. The SqueakNOS people write the driver directly in Smalltalk. Hilaire 2008/8/25 Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am 25.08.2008 um 16:14 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hilaire wrote: Any pointer to what is OFW? I don't find it in the wiki. search for Open Firmware. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Open_Firmware Something is severely wrong with the wiki search box. This page works fine: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OFW but does not appear as search result :/ - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to boot alternative OS from an USB stick?
Am 25.08.2008 um 16:59 schrieb Hilaire Fernandes: Yes, I finally found it with google. Where is the XO hardaware data spec? Could the driver be piloted throught the firmware. Yes, as Mitch wrote in his message. IIRC OFW has drivers for all the XO's hardware. - Bert - The SqueakNOS people write the driver directly in Smalltalk. Hilaire 2008/8/25 Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am 25.08.2008 um 16:14 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hilaire wrote: Any pointer to what is OFW? I don't find it in the wiki. search for Open Firmware. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Open_Firmware Something is severely wrong with the wiki search box. This page works fine: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OFW but does not appear as search result :/ - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
Martin, thanks for your thoughtful responses. I have a lot of reading to do to get up to speed on WebDAV, server discovery, jabber, etc. There are so many portable ways of doing things that it's not worth spending 5 miuntes in thinking about unportable solutions. I'm not sure I agree that a SMB solution is not worth 5 minutes, given the ubiquity of MS devices. But until I go down the WebDAV path for a while I wont really be able to offer an educated opinion. How much work is it to set up personal IIS on windows machines? or the equivalent on osX? I'd like to try it and see how it feels. I think the interface should just work, without installing anything. But I realize this is a touchy subject. I'm willing to go along with the general thinking on the issue. Is there anyone currently working on a WebDAV client for the XO? Please contact me if anyone would like to collaborate on one. George On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:37 PM, George Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wanting to create an Activity that would add value and bridge the MS-linux gap. I discovered that pyNeighborhood is open sourced, written in python, uses gtk, runs on the XO, discovers a diverse MS network, and in my opinion has an acceptable UI. Just avoid making a bridge for that specific gap. :-) If you focus on making something that also happens to work on Windows, then it will work if the other machine is running windows, linux, or osx. There are so many portable ways of doing things that it's not worth spending 5 miuntes in thinking about unportable solutions. Specially when we're wanting to reach high. WebDav is new to me, and interesting. I'm thinking of the kids in city schools, where a parent has a desktop machine that is not an XO, and printer I rewrote that slightly :-) - also, schools might have conventional network printers. Printing will probably be handled via cups. We are missing a lot of infrastructure there (automagic configuration, quota mgmt, some admin tools, ui), and it does make sense to start building it. Just not using platform-specific tools - cups can take care of interoperating. WebDAV is very interoperable. Windows will happily be a client, or a server for it. . Is it your idea that WebDAV client would exist on the XO and the parent would download a WebDAV server, and install it on his/her XP machine? If the 'home computer' is MSWindows-based, I suspect that the IIS version that is published rebranded as PersonalWebServer by MS includes an easy to use WebDAV server. Might need a bit of packaging and prettyfying. Apache2 can also run on Win32 platforms. If the machine is OSX or the many linuxen that are entering the home as 'media centers' or just daddy's machine, they can be WebDAV servers easily too, running Apache. Is there someone with WebDAV experience and enthusiasm who I could correspond with? Lots! WebDAV is implemented very widely - google about, and you'll find tons. I've grafted a WebDAV server into Moodle not long ago. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
[Announce] XO / Sugar Book Sprint
---please forgive crossposts--- XO / Sugar Book Sprint This week in Austin, Texas a team of writers are gathering together to immerse themselves in a one week intensive documentation jam. The purpose of the Book Sprint is to produce documentation in 1 week to support the forthcoming 2008 roll-out off the OLPC G1G1. The team in Austin consists of members of FLOSS Manuals (Adam Hyde, Anne Gentle), OLPC (Adam Holt), Sugar (David Farning, Walter Bender), and the Austin XO Users Group, and YOU! We have set up the online tools so you too can contribute! To make a contribution please do the following : 1. Register To contribute to the documentation you can register at FLOSS Manuals : http://en.flossmanuals.net/register 2. Contribute! There are several manuals planned to be finished by the end of the week (August 29) including a Sugar manual, an XO manual, and 5 Sugar Activities manuals. You can see the structure of the manuals here: Sugar : http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Sugar XO (OLPC Hardware) : http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/XO Sugar Activities : http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Browse http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Chat http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Record http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Terminal http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Write To contribute you must register and then select a manual and a chapter to work on. if it is not marked 'complete' then press the edit button! Its as simple as that. Contributions can include cleaning up layout, spell checking, adding images, proof reading, or taking responsibility for writing one of more chapters. You don't have to be a technical writer or a super geek, you just need to know how to write. If you need to ask us questions about how to contribute then join the chat room listed above and ask us! We look forward to your contribution! For more information on using FLOSS Manuals you may also wish to read our manual : http://en.flossmanuals.net/FLOSSManuals 3. Chat Its a good idea to talk with us so we can help co-ordinate all contributions. We have a chat room for this using Internet Relay Chat (IRC). If you know how to use IRC you can connect to the following : server : irc.freenode.net channel : #olpc-content If you do not know how to use IRC then visit the following web based chat software in your browser : http://irc.flossmanuals.net/ Information on how to use this web based chat software is here : http://en.flossmanuals.net/FLOSSManuals/IRC ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: Printing will probably be handled via cups. We are missing a lot of infrastructure there (automagic configuration, quota mgmt, some admin tools, ui), and it does make sense to start building it. Just not using platform-specific tools - cups can take care of interoperating. one annoyance I have with CUPS in current distros is that it wants you to install printer drivers for your specific printer on every machine. pre-CUPS what I would do is install the printer driver on the server the printer is attached to and tell all other machines to print in plain postscript to that printer and let the server deal with the translation. with CUPS I seem to have to fight a lot harder to do this. pro: client config is very simple, and I don't have to touch every client if I swap out a printer pro: CPU intensive conversion from postscript to printer-specific language can be done on the (typicaly) more powerful server, rather than the clients. con: you don't get direct access to all the fancy features a printer may have (but I don't think they would be available anyway, given the Sugar emphisis on simplicity) con: it requires postscript support on the server side, which is not available directly on cheap network printers. in the situation of the XO deployments, I really think the simplicity of not needing to deal with printer drivers on each laptop and the ability to move the cpu load to the server when printing should make this strategy very attractive. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Request: Jabber server for developers
I cleaned up some of the Jabber pages on the wiki last night:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Jabber
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Run_a_Jabber_Server
I also added a wiki navigation header in a template: {{jabber}}
My plan/goal was to provide ''Running a Jabber Server'' as an open task to
the Volunteer Infrastructure-Gang. I think that running a really solid
vmware (or zen) instance of ejabbered would be a really simple and useful
task for volunteers to work on.
The best first step (IMO) would be to recruit for the Infrastructure-Gang to
better support public tools created and maintained by the community.
--S
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:32 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't
usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it
doesn't have a shared roster.
Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their
databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so they
need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips)
We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an
interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long
time.
I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions for
others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me
with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's
behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe.
Regards
Morgan
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Request: Jabber server for developers
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 20:31, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I cleaned up some of the Jabber pages on the wiki last night:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Jabber
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Run_a_Jabber_Server
I also added a wiki navigation header in a template: {{jabber}}
Thanks!
My plan/goal was to provide ''Running a Jabber Server'' as an open task to
the Volunteer Infrastructure-Gang. I think that running a really solid
vmware (or zen) instance of ejabbered would be a really simple and useful
task for volunteers to work on.
Providing that it is adequately monitored - the community servers have
serious downtime and the admins of those servers don't seem to do
anything about it. Perhaps recommending that the server admin have a
sugar session running on that server on a daily basis to see server
health would be a good thing - or providing a big red email address to
poke when anyone notices it's not working.
The best first step (IMO) would be to recruit for the Infrastructure-Gang to
better support public tools created and maintained by the community.
Great, but please don't let that hold us back with getting this up and
running :)
Regards
Morgan
--S
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:32 AM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't
usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it
doesn't have a shared roster.
Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their
databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so they
need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips)
We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an
interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long
time.
I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions for
others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me
with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's
behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe.
Regards
Morgan
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Regressions(?) in latest joyride build 2321, 2323
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 02:54:54PM -0400, Ton van Overbeek wrote: [...] On the neighborhood view and in the frame there is no longer a Disconnect option after you associate an AP. [...] Is the removal of the 'Disconnect' option intentional? There will be no 'Disconnect' option because there is no msh0 device. The two are related because the 'Disconnect' option is a 'design concession': what is actually does is to activate the mesh. Without a mesh to activate, the 'Disconnect' option disappears. You may find the alternate proposals for 'Disconnect''s behavior, and the counter-proposals, at http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6995#comment:27 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6995#comment:28 Ton van Overbeek Martin pgpEEc4XFLcvr.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Request: Jabber server for developers
Seth Woodworth wrote:
I cleaned up some of the Jabber pages on the wiki last night:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Jabber
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Run_a_Jabber_Server
I also added a wiki navigation header in a template: {{jabber}}
My plan/goal was to provide ''Running a Jabber Server'' as an open
task to the Volunteer Infrastructure-Gang. I think that running a
really solid vmware (or zen) instance of ejabbered would be a really
simple and useful task for volunteers to work on.
I second this. Having a good VM with ejabberd preconfigured (plus
instructions, of course) would be great! For example, grandma's LAMP
(http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/581) is a Ubuntu 6.06.1
based LAMP development environment. I use it all the time to stage sites
that need maintenance or tweaking. Having a canned solution reduces the
barrier to entry for running servers.
Sameer
--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
The best first step (IMO) would be to recruit for the
Infrastructure-Gang to better support public tools created and
maintained by the community.
--S
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:32 AM, Morgan Collett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk
http://olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't
usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it
doesn't have a shared roster.
Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their
databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so they
need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips)
We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an
interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org
http://jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long
time.
I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions for
others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me
with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's
behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe.
Regards
Morgan
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org mailto:Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Regressions(?) in latest joyride build 2321, 2323
Martin Dengler wrote; On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 02:54:54PM -0400, Ton van Overbeek wrote: [...] On the neighborhood view and in the frame there is no longer a Disconnect option after you associate an AP. [...] Is the removal of the 'Disconnect' option intentional? There will be no 'Disconnect' option because there is no msh0 device. The two are related because the 'Disconnect' option is a 'design concession': what is actually does is to activate the mesh. Without a mesh to activate, the 'Disconnect' option disappears. You may find the alternate proposals for 'Disconnect''s behavior, and the counter-proposals, at http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6995#comment:27 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6995#comment:28 OK, so both issues (no mesh and no Disconnect option) are only a single one.. Just found trac #8133 which deals with the disappearing msh0 device. Seems to be an issue with a mismatch between driver versions. Hope it is solved soon. From an end-user point of view I want to be able to disconnect (=disassociate) from an unwanted AP. Now you cannot do this in an obvious way. Ton ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Regressions(?) in latest joyride build 2321, 2323
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Ton van Overbeek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When trying the latest joyride builds (last one I tried was 2331) I noticed the following regressions (firmware Q2E14): - As many have already reported the mesh device msh0 is gone. This caused cerebro to abort and consequently to hang the shutdown. Why cannot we use the mesh any more??? The msh0 interface will return soon. (the driver shuts it down because it does not recognize the firmware as a mesh capable one). - WiFi AP handling has serious problems. On the neighborhood view and in the frame there is no longer a Disconnect option after you associate an AP. In my case I had 2 APs in my /home/olpc/.sugar/default/nm/network.cfg, one open one and my preferred home one with a WPA-PSK password. Almost impossible to connect to my home AP. It keeps prompting for the password (although it is already in network.cfg). Finally by removing the open access point from network.cfg I can now connect. Is the removal of the 'Disconnect' option intentional? Is this a sugar issue, or does the new libertas firmware have anything to do with the WiFi problems? Does Q2E14 have anything to do with the mesh disappearing or is it also the libertas firmware? Ton van Overbeek ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
George Hunt wrote: I think the interface should just work, without installing anything. But I realize this is a touchy subject. I'm willing to go along with the general thinking on the issue. I think a just works solution for M$ machines, i.e. SMB/CIFS, would be huge. Everyone knows how to share their folders. Almost nobody will set up IIS just to share a few files. You would get literally 100x as many users for the former feature as the latter. IMHO of course. And Linux and Mac already implement SMB/CIFS, so it's a solution that works pretty much universally today. -- Gary Oberbrunner ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
I'm debating with myself whether to send this, because I don't want to make people mad, with the result of closed minds, but sometimes you have to be politically incorrect: On Aug 26, 2008, at 5:24 AM, Gary Oberbrunner wrote: George Hunt wrote: I think the interface should just work, without installing anything. But I realize this is a touchy subject. I'm willing to go along with the general thinking on the issue. I think a just works solution for M$ machines, i.e. SMB/CIFS, would be huge. In more ways than one. The nay-sayers warned us what opening that box would bring. I don't think a lot of people recognize that this is just another form of social engineering on the part of Microsoft's marketing crew. Everyone knows how to share their folders. Everyone in this sense means all the people who have learned how to use bad tech. Share a folder in this context means use a GUI to to open a hole in their file system without much of anything to defend it. Almost nobody will set up IIS just to share a few files. Which is why putting that OS on the XO is a lot like making a chalice of gold and pouring in tap water from Egypt. Just because the good people of Egypt, as they grow up, develop biological mechanisms to deal with the bugs doesn't mean that the children of so-called developed countries should drink their water, nor that we should go to the trouble of exporting tap water from Egypt to, say, Uruguay. But in this case, it would be doubly bad, because, if we do it, we are bringing the digital diseases from the so-called developed world to those who have no infrastructure of local PC shops and experts at all to sell (or pirate for) them anti-virus software and such. You would get literally 100x as many users for the former feature as the latter. That would create a huge demand for MSCEs in the various countries where this is done. But are you willing to go work among them at their wages? Three cheers for you if you are, but wouldn't it be better to give them stuff that has at least half a chance of not becoming yet another bot farm? IMHO of course. And Linux and Mac already implement SMB/CIFS, so it's a solution that works pretty much universally today. In somebody's definition of works, in the universe of an industry which has developed a certain acceptance (although, not resistance) to the malware. Sorry if I'm being to blunt about this, but if the argument of volume of installed systems has any merit at all, it also militates against helping the countries for which the XO is a target to get more OSses from Microsoft. Joel Rees ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Joel Rees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm debating with myself whether to send this, because I don't want to make people mad, with the result of closed minds, but sometimes you have to be politically incorrect: I think this will be resolved by whomever implements this, with no need for flamefests :-) In that sense, it is very simple - as a programmer, if I am going to spend significant time working on a feature like this I want it to 1 - work for the deployments - this is the most important thing! 2 - work for G1G1 users too - they are the donors and enthusiasts! 3 - work for the developers - otherwise it won't get attention and bugfixes 4 - work in as many places as possible 5 - not cause security trouble 6 - enable sharing across the internet if possible CIFS is only good on #2, and fails at all the other ones. It is a good solution for a very narrow set of scenarios. These are some of the key concerns in front of a dev planning to implement some form of server-based filesharing. That's why I am suggesting WebDAV - which is superior to this, and trivial to configure on many platforms. Code will settle this. Anyone trying to do a CIFS implementation will soon realise that it just does not fit the usage scenario (not meant for WiFi, userland usage, etc) and WebDAV does. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Request: Jabber server for developers
The big benefit of having an Infrastructure-Gang that can administer a
jabber server (or several virtual ones) is that more than one person can fix
it if it breaks. I could also foresee an irc bot that resides on an XO
somewhere and lets the Infrastructure-Gang irc channel (#olpc-admin) know if
the server goes down.
For those of you who have accounts on RT, please add your comments on
ticket:
http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=19413
I totally believe that this is a task that our crack volunteer squad can
handle as a community. Let's make it happen.
--S
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Seth Woodworth wrote:
I cleaned up some of the Jabber pages on the wiki last night:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Jabber
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Run_a_Jabber_Server
I also added a wiki navigation header in a template: {{jabber}}
My plan/goal was to provide ''Running a Jabber Server'' as an open
task to the Volunteer Infrastructure-Gang. I think that running a
really solid vmware (or zen) instance of ejabbered would be a really
simple and useful task for volunteers to work on.
I second this. Having a good VM with ejabberd preconfigured (plus
instructions, of course) would be great! For example, grandma's LAMP
(http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/581) is a Ubuntu 6.06.1
based LAMP development environment. I use it all the time to stage sites
that need maintenance or tweaking. Having a canned solution reduces the
barrier to entry for running servers.
Sameer
--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
The best first step (IMO) would be to recruit for the
Infrastructure-Gang to better support public tools created and
maintained by the community.
--S
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:32 AM, Morgan Collett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The default jabber server in jhbuild, olpc.collabora.co.uk
http://olpc.collabora.co.uk, isn't
usable at the moment since it is being used to test Gadget - so it
doesn't have a shared roster.
Many of the community servers aren't working. The issue is that their
databases become overloaded once too many people register, and so
they
need to periodically have their databases cleaned (see
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration#Tips)
We need a machine that developers can use, with someone taking an
interest in its uptime. jabber.laptop.org
http://jabber.laptop.org's been hosed for a long
time.
I'm happy to set up a machine and run it, and provide instructions
for
others to poke it when I'm asleep, if someone can arrange a VM for me
with hardy. I have the jabber server running on my laptop, but that's
behind NAT and a very long thin (expensive) pipe.
Regards
Morgan
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org mailto:Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
___
Devel mailing list
Devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
Discussing the activity installer/updater control panel and olpc-update (a few days before) one design assumption from the XO team was very strong: that network clients on the XO could just ignore the XS and attempt direct connections to the desired host and service. If the XS is there, the logic goes, it will transparently intervene. In this scenario, the XS is a magic MITM. I agreed - even though I know that most TCP/IP protocols don't really work that well, at least we could fake it with HTTP, in the great tradition of transparent HTTP proxies. In fact, the XS does ship with a Squid set to be a transparent proxy (plus the required fw rules). Add jesred or something similar, and we are sorted. Alas, working more on this. it turns out we cannot do this in a sane way. The magic MITM approach has a *lot* of problems - Limited to a few protocols. HTTP works. HTTPS does not. - At the protocol layer you mask a whole host:proto - not specific resources, unless you have a very smart proxy. In the case of HTTP, we can use squid+jesded to serve locally just some urls. - Clients still perform DNS lookups and attempt to establish direct connections. This breaks really badly in disconnected scenarios - DNS does not resolve, so the client will never request the URL via the proxy. We can serve fake DNS names pointing to the XS, but that is very ugly hack with innumerable downsides. Providing a local activities installation service for sugar-update-control is a good example. s-u-c can be told via a config file to look for a particular url, and the intention - as discussed with Scott - was to use the same URL for connected and disconnected schools. However, it just does not work in disconnected schools unless we completely fake DNS because the client wants a DNS entry for it. So this is a heads up - in summary We cannot assume network transparency on XS services. I don't yet have a definite plan for this, but here are the tracks I will be exploring - For HTTP-based stuff we may be able to retain some transparency - If clients obey http_proxy :-) - Gecko does not, so it will have to be set somehow. - If we can get http proxy settings via DHCP or something hackish like WPAD - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. - For !HTTP networking, we need to plan for XS-aware behaviour when we are in the school network. If we can make it generic as well as useful, even better. - We need a stable flag on the XO that indicates whether we are on an XS network or not. Or perhaps a per-service flag for services where it matters. Right now the Telepathy infra is doing some of this. Overall, this is somewhat disappointing, but it is part of how the network protocols we use are designed. Or rather - how they are *not* designed to make a smart MITM easy (or even feasible) to implement. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
My self and a number of G1G1 users, currently use boa for transferring files. It is a light weight web server. I see no need for SMB/CIFS . Now WebDAV sounds interesting. Now to clean up the copy to Journal and copy from Journal scripts On Aug 25, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Joel Rees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm debating with myself whether to send this, because I don't want to make people mad, with the result of closed minds, but sometimes you have to be politically incorrect: I think this will be resolved by whomever implements this, with no need for flamefests :-) In that sense, it is very simple - as a programmer, if I am going to spend significant time working on a feature like this I want it to 1 - work for the deployments - this is the most important thing! 2 - work for G1G1 users too - they are the donors and enthusiasts! 3 - work for the developers - otherwise it won't get attention and bugfixes 4 - work in as many places as possible 5 - not cause security trouble 6 - enable sharing across the internet if possible CIFS is only good on #2, and fails at all the other ones. It is a good solution for a very narrow set of scenarios. These are some of the key concerns in front of a dev planning to implement some form of server-based filesharing. That's why I am suggesting WebDAV - which is superior to this, and trivial to configure on many platforms. Code will settle this. Anyone trying to do a CIFS implementation will soon realise that it just does not fit the usage scenario (not meant for WiFi, userland usage, etc) and WebDAV does. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. many clients do still do the DNS lookups. it's possible to setup a fairly complicated proxy setup where you use different proxies to get to different destinations (google for proxy.pac) it's possible to write that logic in a way that requires DNS lookups, I don't know if it's possible to write it in a way that avoids them. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. many clients do still do the DNS lookups. Have you got more info on this? Which ones do you know or suspect? m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
Martin Langhoff writes: In that sense, it is very simple - as a programmer, if I am going to spend significant time working on a feature like this I want it to 1 - work for the deployments - this is the most important thing! 2 - work for G1G1 users too - they are the donors and enthusiasts! 3 - work for the developers - otherwise it won't get attention and bugfixes 4 - work in as many places as possible 5 - not cause security trouble 6 - enable sharing across the internet if possible CIFS is only good on #2, and fails at all the other ones. It is a good solution for a very narrow set of scenarios. Nope. CIFS meets them all. WebDAV fails at #2, #3, #4, #5. CIFS sure does feel yucky, but it works pretty well. CIFS is even done in userspace (GNOME's nautilus seems to have it). A more Linux-oriented alternative would be NFSv4. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO activity bundle .info format
In the course of making an activity server for the XS, I have looked at the activity.info files of 114 bundles from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities. One (Berkeley Logo) turned out not to be a bundle at all, and otherwise the tags I found were: name 113 icon 113 activity_version 111 service_name 101 show_launcher 76 class 61 exec52 host_version35 mime_types 25 bundle_id 20 id 4 update_url 2 runtime_library_dirs 1 activity-version 1 bundle_id || service_name 113 bundle_id != service_name0 It seems that people are using bundle_id and service_name interchangeably, and that although the wiki[1] says bundle_id is required, service_name is more common. Is it OK to assume these will remain as synonyms? Might they ever diverge? [1]http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format The tags that appear most erroneous belong to the following activities: id: com.ywwg.Sonata org.osl.MediaPlayerActivity com.epals.www com.ywwg.NewsReader activity-version: org.laptop.ViewSlidesActivity NO activity_version: org.laptop.ViewSlidesActivity org.laptop.HelloWorldActivity runtime_library_dirs: org.laptop.swordread I'm not sure about the last one. Douglas ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIFS will be strategic in some settings, but not included in kernel
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1 - work for the deployments - this is the most important thing! 2 - work for G1G1 users too - they are the donors and enthusiasts! 3 - work for the developers - otherwise it won't get attention and bugfixes 4 - work in as many places as possible 5 - not cause security trouble 6 - enable sharing across the internet if possible CIFS is only good on #2, and fails at all the other ones. It is a good solution for a very narrow set of scenarios. Nope. CIFS meets them all. WebDAV fails at #2, #3, #4, #5. How does it fail? Arguiing CIFS is better at #4 and #5 is not a trivial thing :-) CIFS sure does feel yucky, but it works pretty well. CIFS is even done in userspace (GNOME's nautilus seems to have it). If you are connected to a CIFS server, and it disappears on you, good luck. CIFS is good for a wired LAN, where you trust your clients and you have some kind of unified user database. Similar case as NFS in that sense. Ownerships are preserved, file modes, the works. Good performance too. All of that brings a hefty price in complexity and security concerns. WebDAV is better in that it does *less* and as such it sits much further up in the stack. Feel free to go ahead and implement it based on CIFS and solve the related issues. With enough simplification work, it might even be an option! cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
using wiki pageviews per country of origin to motivate translations
It has recently come to my attention that the majority of the traffic on the wiki is coming from Uruguay XO users (students it seems). Could we track, or are we already tracking, pageviews per page by country of origin on wiki.laptop.org? It would be an extremely useful metric in deciding which pages should be translated into which languages. Erik (a list of requested spanish translations: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Category:Deseada) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
increased transient traffic in #olpc-ayuda
In recent weeks there has been a marked increase of guests in #olpc-ayuda. Here is a typical session: 20:57 -!- NombreCambiado-1c42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] has joined #olpc-ayuda 20:58 NombreCambiado-1c42 hola soy _ . nopuedo ver videos 21:06 -!- NombreCambiado-1c42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] has quit [Remote closed the connection] I suppose that what is happening is that default settings in XoChat is directing this traffic to #olpc-ayuda, and more of it is coming as more students in Uruguay are figuring out how to download activities. Unfortunately there are just not enough people in #olpc-ayuda to catch such cases. I have never been able to, and am considering implementing a helpbot there to explain ways to seek help--- or at least encourage kids to wait for it there if they actually want it. The rules of IRC are not clear to them. I don't know what kind of help could be provided, but if you are interested in helping a real-live XO user, lurking in #olpc-ayuda might be your best shot. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: increased transient traffic in #olpc-ayuda
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: considering implementing a helpbot there to explain ways to seek help Good idea! Do point them to a mailing list - IRC is an incredibly bad way to get support. You get no answers, or answers from whomever is there at the moment, with or without a clue. At any given time, the person with the knowledge you are after is sleeping or just not in IRC. Only very old tired FAQs have a reliable chance of getting good consistent replies over IRC. This is specially true in fast-moving projects. On a mailing list, a small group of clued in helpful people can do a lot of good spending a bit of time each day. Count with me to help on olpc-sur or similar. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
how can communications mode be manually controlled ?
Recently there has been extensive discussion of this on trac, on sugar, and on devel. What I have gathered from that discussion: 1) To turn OFF both communication with the mesh and communication with the AP, use the control panel. But the control panel only has a checkbox for 'radio' - what if I want to turn OFF both mesh and a *wired* AP ? 2) To turn off mesh, click on wireless AP; to turn off wireless AP, click on mesh (assuming no obstacles caused by bugs). But will the indicated communications mode persist, or will Network Manager soon switch back (e.g., if there is no AP) ? mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] how can communications mode be manually controlled ?
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:48:02AM -0400, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: 1) To turn OFF both communication with the mesh and communication with the AP, use the control panel. Either Network -- Radio or Power -- Extreme Power Management seemed to work for me. But the control panel only has a checkbox for 'radio' - what if I want to turn OFF both mesh and a *wired* AP ? What do you mean by wired AP? Perhaps with Extreme Power Management you can lose the USB bus, which might do something like you want. 2) To turn off mesh, click on wireless AP; to turn off wireless AP, click on mesh (assuming no obstacles caused by bugs). Yes. If by turn off you mean do not use, in particular. But will the indicated communications mode persist, or will Network Manager soon switch back (e.g., if there is no AP) ? Whatever you've click[ed] on will persist until NM decides it's not usable any more, roughly. mikus Martin pgpFbT8iyCOR3.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. many clients do still do the DNS lookups. Have you got more info on this? Which ones do you know or suspect? firefox has to if the proxy.pac contains javascript commands that make decisions based on IP, but with a trivial (IP) entry it doesn't. watch out for 'automatic proxy settings' popping up I don't remember others at the moment, but I remember running into problems with various tools in the past (my work environment consists of many different networks, with proxies, but not routing between the networks. nowdays I just either use IP addresses or make sure that every system/proxy in the path can resolve the name. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Ubuntu XS To: Michael Stone
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 03:23:45PM -0400, Greg Smith wrote: The main challenge with using Debian or something besides Fedora is that you would have to install and support the code separately. This may be an acceptable cost given the high Debian packaging experience within the volunteer base that Pia has working with her. However, if you want eJabberd (collaboration SW) or XO updates off XS or some other custom thing built by Martin and team, then you may have extra work. ejabberd is available in Debian Lenny now, so repackaging current sources for Debian should not be difficult. Repackaging from an RPM source isn't terribly hard, and there are also tools that can be used at a pinch to make it easier. -- James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Ubuntu XS To: Michael Stone
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:36 PM, James Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 03:23:45PM -0400, Greg Smith wrote: The main challenge with using Debian or something besides Fedora is that you would have to install and support the code separately. This may be an acceptable cost given the high Debian packaging experience within the volunteer base that Pia has working with her. We had this discussion last week :-) no need to rehash it. I kindly request that anyone prepared to get into this effort think through my comments on this, specially the 20% vs 80% m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
[Server-devel] Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
Discussing the activity installer/updater control panel and olpc-update (a few days before) one design assumption from the XO team was very strong: that network clients on the XO could just ignore the XS and attempt direct connections to the desired host and service. If the XS is there, the logic goes, it will transparently intervene. In this scenario, the XS is a magic MITM. I agreed - even though I know that most TCP/IP protocols don't really work that well, at least we could fake it with HTTP, in the great tradition of transparent HTTP proxies. In fact, the XS does ship with a Squid set to be a transparent proxy (plus the required fw rules). Add jesred or something similar, and we are sorted. Alas, working more on this. it turns out we cannot do this in a sane way. The magic MITM approach has a *lot* of problems - Limited to a few protocols. HTTP works. HTTPS does not. - At the protocol layer you mask a whole host:proto - not specific resources, unless you have a very smart proxy. In the case of HTTP, we can use squid+jesded to serve locally just some urls. - Clients still perform DNS lookups and attempt to establish direct connections. This breaks really badly in disconnected scenarios - DNS does not resolve, so the client will never request the URL via the proxy. We can serve fake DNS names pointing to the XS, but that is very ugly hack with innumerable downsides. Providing a local activities installation service for sugar-update-control is a good example. s-u-c can be told via a config file to look for a particular url, and the intention - as discussed with Scott - was to use the same URL for connected and disconnected schools. However, it just does not work in disconnected schools unless we completely fake DNS because the client wants a DNS entry for it. So this is a heads up - in summary We cannot assume network transparency on XS services. I don't yet have a definite plan for this, but here are the tracks I will be exploring - For HTTP-based stuff we may be able to retain some transparency - If clients obey http_proxy :-) - Gecko does not, so it will have to be set somehow. - If we can get http proxy settings via DHCP or something hackish like WPAD - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. - For !HTTP networking, we need to plan for XS-aware behaviour when we are in the school network. If we can make it generic as well as useful, even better. - We need a stable flag on the XO that indicates whether we are on an XS network or not. Or perhaps a per-service flag for services where it matters. Right now the Telepathy infra is doing some of this. Overall, this is somewhat disappointing, but it is part of how the network protocols we use are designed. Or rather - how they are *not* designed to make a smart MITM easy (or even feasible) to implement. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. many clients do still do the DNS lookups. it's possible to setup a fairly complicated proxy setup where you use different proxies to get to different destinations (google for proxy.pac) it's possible to write that logic in a way that requires DNS lookups, I don't know if it's possible to write it in a way that avoids them. David Lang ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Network transparent XS services - limitations and alternatives
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Martin Langhoff wrote: - Do HTTP clients using a proxy do not perform DNS lookups? My understanding is that they do not, but I am not 100% certain of whether this is specified, and how actual clients behave. many clients do still do the DNS lookups. Have you got more info on this? Which ones do you know or suspect? firefox has to if the proxy.pac contains javascript commands that make decisions based on IP, but with a trivial (IP) entry it doesn't. watch out for 'automatic proxy settings' popping up I don't remember others at the moment, but I remember running into problems with various tools in the past (my work environment consists of many different networks, with proxies, but not routing between the networks. nowdays I just either use IP addresses or make sure that every system/proxy in the path can resolve the name. David Lang ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
