Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
I have played with PyODE, but not on the XO. http:// pyode.sourceforge.net/ I suspect that the XO would not be able to handle a realistic 3D simulation with a large number of objects. This is partially due to the lack of GL for rendering. Simpler things, like wireframe rendering, 2D simulation or small numbers of objects are certainly possible. Someone could port something like these: http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=22 http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=18 Soda or Moovl would make a *great* XO activity: http://sodaplay.com/ http://www.moovl.co.uk/ -josh On Feb 14, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > Has anybody looked at this for the XO? > > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/PhysicsEngines > > The physics is not very realistic yet. Presumably we could manage > simple statics and dynamics, with graphs of position, velocity, and > acceleration. > > I would like to have a simulation engine available for integration > into e-textbooks. What other candidates are there? > > -- > Edward Cherlin > End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business > http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ > "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Joshua Minor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have played with PyODE, but not on the XO. http:// > pyode.sourceforge.net/ > > I suspect that the XO would not be able to handle a realistic 3D > simulation with a large number of objects. This is partially due to > the lack of GL for rendering. > > Simpler things, like wireframe rendering, 2D simulation or small > numbers of objects are certainly possible. Even point particles under gravity is good. I did some on the Apple ][ using TutSIM in the 80s--elliptical comet orbits, chaotic 3-body orbits. My father worked on the famous bouncing ball program on the old MIT Whirlwind in vacuum tube days. > Someone could port something like these: > http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=22 > http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=18 > > Soda or Moovl would make a *great* XO activity: > http://sodaplay.com/ > http://www.moovl.co.uk/ Hot stuff, but proprietary. > -josh Anyway, what I wanted to know was whether anybody would be interested in porting this, or in joining their community and talking up the XO project. > On Feb 14, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > Has anybody looked at this for the XO? > > > > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/PhysicsEngines > > > > The physics is not very realistic yet. Presumably we could manage > > simple statics and dynamics, with graphs of position, velocity, and > > acceleration. > > > > I would like to have a simulation engine available for integration > > into e-textbooks. What other candidates are there? > > > > -- > > Edward Cherlin > > End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business > > http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ > > "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay > > ___ > > Devel mailing list > > Devel@lists.laptop.org > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
Edward Cherlin wrote: > Has anybody looked at this for the XO? > > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/PhysicsEngines > > The physics is not very realistic yet. Presumably we could manage > simple statics and dynamics, with graphs of position, velocity, and > acceleration. > > I would like to have a simulation engine available for integration > into e-textbooks. What other candidates are there? I know its old, but have a look at xaero? Some info here, I've not used it in more than ten years, but the hardware we had then was less powerful than the XO is now; http://tog.acm.org/resources/RTNews/html/rtnv7n5.html#art6 I am not sure what license xaero is under, but that might lead to other things of interest... cheers, Kim ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
On Feb 14, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > Even point particles under gravity is good. I did some on the Apple ][ > using TutSIM in the 80s--elliptical comet orbits, chaotic 3-body > orbits. My father worked on the famous bouncing ball program on the > old MIT Whirlwind in vacuum tube days. Indeed, there is a lot of room for experimentation and learning even in a very simple simulation. No fancy 3D graphics needed :) >> Someone could port something like these: >> http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=22 >> http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=18 Although there is no mention of it on the page, these are GPL. I spoke with the author some months ago. >> Soda or Moovl would make a *great* XO activity: >> http://sodaplay.com/ >> http://www.moovl.co.uk/ > > Hot stuff, but proprietary. The source to a simple version of Soda is published as Synthesis example #16 in "Processing, A Programming Handbook for Visual Designers and Artists" and can be found in the example code zip on this page: http://www.processing.org/learning/books/ There used to be a simple version of Moovl with source on the processing site also, but the link is broken. Either of these, or a number of other folks' work inspired by them, would be a fine place for someone to start if they wanted to build something for the XO, which I believe was your point to begin with :) -josh ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
Hi I saw this some time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7eGypGOlOc It's called Physics Illustrator. I know, it is developed by Microsoft but still it's really cool. Source code is available at: http://research.microsoft.com/research/downloads/Details/aeee3085-a219-47d6-88fc-a2501f00800d/Details.aspx it's not GPL but the license says: "You may use this Software for any non-commercial purpose, subject to the restrictions in this License. Some purposes which can be non-commercial are teaching, academic research, public demonstrations and personal experimentation. You may also distribute this Software with books or other teaching materials, or publish the Software on websites, that are intended to teach the use of the Software for academic or other non- commercial purposes." It's written in C# but the code isn't that huge, so to rewrite it is not a lunatic idea imho. Gabor On 2/15/08, Joshua Minor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Feb 14, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > > Even point particles under gravity is good. I did some on the Apple ][ > > using TutSIM in the 80s--elliptical comet orbits, chaotic 3-body > > orbits. My father worked on the famous bouncing ball program on the > > old MIT Whirlwind in vacuum tube days. > > Indeed, there is a lot of room for experimentation and learning even > in a very simple simulation. No fancy 3D graphics needed :) > > >> Someone could port something like these: > >> http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=22 > >> http://arkitus.com/Play/?id=18 > > Although there is no mention of it on the page, these are GPL. I > spoke with the author some months ago. > > >> Soda or Moovl would make a *great* XO activity: > >> http://sodaplay.com/ > >> http://www.moovl.co.uk/ > > > > Hot stuff, but proprietary. > > The source to a simple version of Soda is published as Synthesis > example #16 in > "Processing, A Programming Handbook for Visual Designers and Artists" > and can be found in the example code zip on this page: > http://www.processing.org/learning/books/ > > There used to be a simple version of Moovl with source on the > processing site also, but the link is broken. > > Either of these, or a number of other folks' work inspired by them, > would be a fine place for someone to start if they wanted to build > something for the XO, which I believe was your point to begin with :) > > -josh > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Rózsás Gödény ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
Edward Cherlin wrote: > Has anybody looked at this for the XO? > > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/PhysicsEngines > > The physics is not very realistic yet. Presumably we could manage > simple statics and dynamics, with graphs of position, velocity, and > acceleration. > > I would like to have a simulation engine available for integration > into e-textbooks. What other candidates are there? > > I've been looking at using Chipmunk (a 2D physics library: http://wiki.slembcke.net/main/published/Chipmunk) to do a simple activity which allows the user to draw shapes freehand, and then have them physically simulated. By choosing different pens, you can draw either fixed, rigid or flexible shapes. People have already developed similar programs using chipmunk, and the demo videos are very interesting. Unfortunately they seem to be under closed licenses. Besides, a Sugar version would be most interesting with some kind of mesh multiuser component, which would probably significantly change how the program evolves. I've done some very early prototypes on the XO, mostly by running the Chipmunk test program. It was surprisingly slow; I looked at optimising chipmunk to use 3dnow, but I suspect the bottleneck is in actually rendering (I have not profiled it properly). I was hoping to use Cairo for rendering, but it seems to be a bit too slow for smooth animated rendering. I was hoping to put together and announce something simple for people to poke at in the next week or two. J ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
http://edu.kde.org/step/index.php This was apparently finished during 2007 google summer of code Description Step is an interactive physical simulator. It works like this: you place some bodies on the scene, add some forces such as gravity or springs, then click "Simulate" and Step shows you how your scene will evolve according to the laws of physics. You can change every property of bodies/forces in your experiment (even during simulation) and see how this will change evolution of the experiment. With Step you can not only learn but feel how physics works ! Features * Classical mechanical simulation in two dimensions * Particles, springs with dumping, gravitational and coulomb forces * Rigid bodies * Collision detection (currently only discrete) and handling * Soft (deformable) bodies simulated as user-editable particles-springs system, sound waves * Molecular dynamics (currently using Lennard-Jones potential): gas and liquid, condensation and evaporation, calculation of macroscopic quantities and their variances * Units conversion and expression calculation: you can enter something like "(2 days + 3 hours) * 80 km/h" and it will be accepted as distance value (requires libqalculate) * Errors calculation and propagation: you can enter values like "1.3 ± 0.2" for any property and errors for all dependent properties will be calculated using statistical formulas * Solver error estimation: errors introduced by the solver is calculated and added to user-entered errors * Several different solvers: up to 8th order, explicit and implicit, with or without adaptive timestep (most of the solvers require GSL library) * Controller tool to easily control properties during simulation (even with custom keyboard shortcuts) * Tools to visualize results: graph, meter, tracer * Context information for all objects, integrated wikipedia browser * Collection of example experiments, more can be downloaded with KNewStuff2 StepCore Library StepCore is the physical simulation library on which Step is based. It can be used without Step for complex simulations which require coding or in other software which require physical simulation functionality. It is designed in order to be extensible, tunable and to provide accurate simulation. On 2/15/08, Jeremy Fitzhardinge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Edward Cherlin wrote: > > Has anybody looked at this for the XO? > > > > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/PhysicsEngines > > > > The physics is not very realistic yet. Presumably we could manage > > simple statics and dynamics, with graphs of position, velocity, and > > acceleration. > > > > I would like to have a simulation engine available for integration > > into e-textbooks. What other candidates are there? > > > > > > I've been looking at using Chipmunk (a 2D physics library: > http://wiki.slembcke.net/main/published/Chipmunk) to do a simple > activity which allows the user to draw shapes freehand, and then have > them physically simulated. By choosing different pens, you can draw > either fixed, rigid or flexible shapes. People have already developed > similar programs using chipmunk, and the demo videos are very > interesting. Unfortunately they seem to be under closed licenses. > Besides, a Sugar version would be most interesting with some kind of > mesh multiuser component, which would probably significantly change how > the program evolves. > > I've done some very early prototypes on the XO, mostly by running the > Chipmunk test program. It was surprisingly slow; I looked at optimising > chipmunk to use 3dnow, but I suspect the bottleneck is in actually > rendering (I have not profiled it properly). I was hoping to use Cairo > for rendering, but it seems to be a bit too slow for smooth animated > rendering. > > I was hoping to put together and announce something simple for people to > poke at in the next week or two. > > J > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- "Always do right," said Mark Twain. "This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
Hi, Just wanted to chip in with a thought of a simpler activity sim type that could be a low hanging fruit to port or code for the XO. I do love the idea of 'crayon physics' and all the other physics sim spinoffs that are all the fashion just now, but a lot of fun/ exploration can be had with some the old school sandbox type simulations. Some of the examples at the below URL are way over developed/cluttered (too many material types, unnecessary additions etc), but a more careful design would make a good, single and multi user sharable activity: http://fallingsandgame.com/viewtopic.php?t=1875 Regards, Gary P.S. I'm really tempted to pick this one up, but I've only just made my first activity port 'Moon' and I was planning to move onto 'Earth' as a worthy follow up with more educational possibilities as an activity. H... On 15 Feb 2008, at 15:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On 2/15/08, Jeremy Fitzhardinge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Edward Cherlin wrote: >>> Has anybody looked at this for the XO? >>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/PhysicsEngines >>> >>> The physics is not very realistic yet. Presumably we could manage >>> simple statics and dynamics, with graphs of position, velocity, and >>> acceleration. >>> >>> I would like to have a simulation engine available for integration >>> into e-textbooks. What other candidates are there? >>> >>> >> > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
Gary C Martin wrote: > Just wanted to chip in with a thought of a simpler activity sim type > that could be a low hanging fruit to port or code for the XO. I do > love the idea of 'crayon physics' and all the other physics sim > spinoffs that are all the fashion just now, but a lot of fun/ > exploration can be had with some the old school sandbox type > simulations. Yes. The thing I like about crayon is that its immediately accessible, and its obvious what's happening; a few minutes of experimentation will tell you everything you need to know about making things, and yet there's a fairly large range of interesting things you can achieve. There's no distinction between "modelling" and "simulation", aside from having a "pause" button. But from that base you can easily envisage adding more complex types of items like linkages and motors to allow more flexiblity. > Some of the examples at the below URL are way over > developed/cluttered (too many material types, unnecessary additions > etc), but a more careful design would make a good, single and multi > user sharable activity: > > http://fallingsandgame.com/viewtopic.php?t=1875 > Yes, these kinds of literal sandbox games are fun too... J ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
It is not something done with a physics engine, but there are a few particle systems written in Etoys. For example, if you launch Etoys, click on "Gallery of Projects", and click on the thumbnail third from the left in the bottom row. It is an ideal gas simulation (in 2D). You can modify the parameters like pressure (called "gravity" because the green top wall is falling down all the time), and turtleCount that controls the number of gas molecules. But also you can modify the actual simulation code while the simulation is running, change stuff in the script called "oneStep", or perhaps you can assign different values to the "speed" variables to these molecules' own variables, etc., etc. -- Yoshiki ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
