[SailfishDevel] Is Harbour QA functional?
Hi, Many of us have surely noticed that Harbour QA process is taking forever. Is there anyone doing the checks or are they under the lay-off? My apps aren't in a hurry but I'd like to know the situation anyway. An update to my app has been waiting for QA for two weeks now :) #KeepCalmAndSupportJolla Br, jollailija -- Lähetetty Jollastani ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12
Hi, On 11/27/2015 12:45 PM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: > Above the question was raised how much/good of a base the Jolla > community is, I think the simple fact that Jolla started with > crowd-funding (The First One, remember?) shows that they have a strong > and passionate community willing to back them. I'll have to step in here. You're talking about the past as if it would be today. "much/good of a base the Jolla community WAS" FTFY. While there might still be a community, it's by no means as strong and enthusiastic as it was before the phone shipped. Jolla managed to alienate significant parts of the community and many bright and motivated people just turned away and found something more rewarding to do. > I did not buy a tablet for the simple reason that I did not see any > value in a tablet when I have a phone and a laptop on me all the time, > I was provided a tablet through a program I am currently in and that > has made me change my mind a bit but by now even if I want I can't buy > it, the same goes for OH (where is the Angry Birds OH? Stella doesn't > count because you can't get it without a phone), extra batteries and a > ton of other things that could have generated some 'cheap' revenue but > were never done. > > As said above now that Jolla essentially canceled the Jolla2 (by > saying they won't do hw development anymore) it doesn't make sense for > me to buy another OH because I have no way of know how much ROI I will > get in the form of being able to use it in the future. I find it somewhat amusing, that people keep talking about the Jolla phone the Tablet and a mythical Jolla2 as if their sales could possibly turn a stone. Those were, rather obviously, huge loss-making endeavours intended to showcase the capabilities of Jolla engineering. Jolla was betting from day one on being able to license out their OS and related services and they were not shy of saying this. At best the Jolla phone could have provided a bit of additional propulsion through the initial rough seas, but only if it would have been a massive smash hit and operators would have lined up with 100k orders around the former Nokia building that Jolla used to inhabit. The denial in people in this regard is sometimes astonishing. > I have no problem with Jolla having a feature bounty program where the > community can steer what features are important to them and I have no > problem with Jolla saying "Please help us" in some crowd funding > campaign, I may not even want a T-shirt in return but to go from there > to a subscription system for updates to me is completely in-culpable. > > If Jolla were to take a more Open Source approach to software > development they would also find that the cost of development would > probably be lower after all there are all kinds of basic functions > that community members have gone and added in the past (keyboards, > calendar localization, translations etc.) that actually allow the > phone to be sold in markets that would otherwise just not touch it > because they can't type/read their local language. > I have no idea how much time and effort it cost to add the calendar > localization in SFOS2 (yes it's finally there, I don't need to patch > it anymore!) and I really hope that they did use my patches because > otherwise that is a great example of how money is wasted on > re-developing features done by the community which just need QA. > I don't believe that Jolla would be in severe danger from being all > Open Source just look at Red Hat and other big Linux players it can > work not only that the dirt-cheap Chinese players may copy the product > but on the way they also expose the platform more and they may also > both contribute back and have support contracts with Jolla. This would have worked very well, 2 years ago. That ship has largely sailed. It's not that Jolla didn't know. I know for a fact that many if not most developers who were employed by jolla were very strong open source advocates. It is my personal opinion, that this was caused by a combination of factors: - Jolla Oy not finding at least one hardware partner early on - Jolla Oy top management and its investors clinging to "proprietary IPR" - A worsened outlook leading to "survival mode" behaviour (due to e.g. the above two) - The aborted Mer/Nemomobile(middleware) merge (due to survival mode, it actually resumed recently and may complete before its 2 year anniversary) - The complete and persistent intransparency in Mer/Nemo/SailfishOS contribution processes (see previous points) - The deterioration of community meetings, especially over the last year - The complete absence of community meetings and communications for over a quarter called "summer vacations" Especially in the first 5 there is somewhat of a cascade. I obviously wasn't in the meetings, so I can't ascribe blame. The root cause for Jolla Oy being perceived as Janus-faced in terms of open source by the community is probably found somewhere between the scar
Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12
>Selling it to bigger companies is the actual way to earn a lot of money. However Google was First and Dominate that part. Android is fully free (Apache License). See also Cynamod. I do not believe Sailfish has better selling points with cheaper costs. Jolla's strong point is privacy, with open Source community spirit. And because they are fighting for live the community has to show its worth. And the core of every Open Source Community is the independent Developer movement. (This mailing list) I see 3 choices. 1) generate a market and fuel of development with it. 2) rally the community and support. And currently we need money to back a short time. And maybe quickly. And we need to define here then the price attached to it. I have to add. I believe both ways are valid moves. And both ways influence the community what it will become when this death valley we survive. 3) Jolla2 would be continuing the consumer market. I see this as difficult due to the fresh fail of the Jolla tablet. Once the tablet is out and protest quite again, this could be an option. I see the best chances in the paradigms shift of crowed / community funded approach Jolla has tried in the past. I hope next try will be better. All the Best Peter E.S. Rosenberg schrieb am Fr., 27. Nov. 2015 13:45: > Above the question was raised how much/good of a base the Jolla community > is, I think the simple fact that Jolla started with crowd-funding (The > First One, remember?) shows that they have a strong and passionate > community willing to back them. > > I did not buy a tablet for the simple reason that I did not see any value > in a tablet when I have a phone and a laptop on me all the time, I was > provided a tablet through a program I am currently in and that has made me > change my mind a bit but by now even if I want I can't buy it, the same > goes for OH (where is the Angry Birds OH? Stella doesn't count because you > can't get it without a phone), extra batteries and a ton of other things > that could have generated some 'cheap' revenue but were never done. > > As said above now that Jolla essentially canceled the Jolla2 (by saying > they won't do hw development anymore) it doesn't make sense for me to buy > another OH because I have no way of know how much ROI I will get in the > form of being able to use it in the future. > > I have no problem with Jolla having a feature bounty program where the > community can steer what features are important to them and I have no > problem with Jolla saying "Please help us" in some crowd funding campaign, > I may not even want a T-shirt in return but to go from there to a > subscription system for updates to me is completely in-culpable. > > If Jolla were to take a more Open Source approach to software development > they would also find that the cost of development would probably be lower > after all there are all kinds of basic functions that community members > have gone and added in the past (keyboards, calendar localization, > translations etc.) that actually allow the phone to be sold in markets that > would otherwise just not touch it because they can't type/read their local > language. > I have no idea how much time and effort it cost to add the calendar > localization in SFOS2 (yes it's finally there, I don't need to patch it > anymore!) and I really hope that they did use my patches because otherwise > that is a great example of how money is wasted on re-developing features > done by the community which just need QA. > I don't believe that Jolla would be in severe danger from being all Open > Source just look at Red Hat and other big Linux players it can work not > only that the dirt-cheap Chinese players may copy the product but on the > way they also expose the platform more and they may also both contribute > back and have support contracts with Jolla. > > Anyhow I hope that Jolla pulls through and am waiting to see either > another crowd funding campaign or some other form of cash generation, have > you considered selling shares to the community? Or after all developing a > Jolla2? > > Regards, > Eli > > 2015-11-27 11:46 GMT+02:00 Ruediger Schiller : > >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 07:28:17AM +, Peter Kovacs wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > I am not able to join on next community meeting due to work >> restrictions I >> > have. So I can not propose a topic. I am instead post my thoughts >> directly >> > to this list. >> > I think no 1 topic is to stabilise Dev efforts for SailfishOS. >> > I do not believe to simply put sailfish in multiple places will ensure >> its >> > existance. This would only be the case if SailfishOS would open source >> it's >> > Software. This would be the death of Jolla in my eyes at this point. >> > >> > I see rather a better strategy in a business model change. Instead of >> > trying to sell the OS to big companies sell the OS to your community. >> >> Selling it to bigger companies is the actual way to earn a lot of money. >> >> > I think the crowed f
Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12
Above the question was raised how much/good of a base the Jolla community is, I think the simple fact that Jolla started with crowd-funding (The First One, remember?) shows that they have a strong and passionate community willing to back them. I did not buy a tablet for the simple reason that I did not see any value in a tablet when I have a phone and a laptop on me all the time, I was provided a tablet through a program I am currently in and that has made me change my mind a bit but by now even if I want I can't buy it, the same goes for OH (where is the Angry Birds OH? Stella doesn't count because you can't get it without a phone), extra batteries and a ton of other things that could have generated some 'cheap' revenue but were never done. As said above now that Jolla essentially canceled the Jolla2 (by saying they won't do hw development anymore) it doesn't make sense for me to buy another OH because I have no way of know how much ROI I will get in the form of being able to use it in the future. I have no problem with Jolla having a feature bounty program where the community can steer what features are important to them and I have no problem with Jolla saying "Please help us" in some crowd funding campaign, I may not even want a T-shirt in return but to go from there to a subscription system for updates to me is completely in-culpable. If Jolla were to take a more Open Source approach to software development they would also find that the cost of development would probably be lower after all there are all kinds of basic functions that community members have gone and added in the past (keyboards, calendar localization, translations etc.) that actually allow the phone to be sold in markets that would otherwise just not touch it because they can't type/read their local language. I have no idea how much time and effort it cost to add the calendar localization in SFOS2 (yes it's finally there, I don't need to patch it anymore!) and I really hope that they did use my patches because otherwise that is a great example of how money is wasted on re-developing features done by the community which just need QA. I don't believe that Jolla would be in severe danger from being all Open Source just look at Red Hat and other big Linux players it can work not only that the dirt-cheap Chinese players may copy the product but on the way they also expose the platform more and they may also both contribute back and have support contracts with Jolla. Anyhow I hope that Jolla pulls through and am waiting to see either another crowd funding campaign or some other form of cash generation, have you considered selling shares to the community? Or after all developing a Jolla2? Regards, Eli 2015-11-27 11:46 GMT+02:00 Ruediger Schiller : > On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 07:28:17AM +, Peter Kovacs wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am not able to join on next community meeting due to work restrictions > I > > have. So I can not propose a topic. I am instead post my thoughts > directly > > to this list. > > I think no 1 topic is to stabilise Dev efforts for SailfishOS. > > I do not believe to simply put sailfish in multiple places will ensure > its > > existance. This would only be the case if SailfishOS would open source > it's > > Software. This would be the death of Jolla in my eyes at this point. > > > > I see rather a better strategy in a business model change. Instead of > > trying to sell the OS to big companies sell the OS to your community. > > Selling it to bigger companies is the actual way to earn a lot of money. > > > I think the crowed funding method was quite successful. So I propose > > another Crowed funding camagne. This has now to be a success. So I > propose > > something small. Like getting payment function into Jolla. > > Perks could be to get better conditions after the Shop is live. Maybe > 10% - > > 50% off. > > I do not know how much money you need to make add payment > functionallities > > and survive the next month) > > Won't generate enough revenue in this timeframe. > > > > > Another step could be to have a System suscription. This system > > subscription is made to ensure updates. It should not be much like 5-10 > > euros a month. Free of choice if possible, enforce if neccessary. I have > no > > feeling how close Jolla is to the death. > > You pay 260€ (now it is 200€ I know) to then pay another 120€ to get > upgrades? > > > I do like the Crowed funding mythology of star citizen. Most of them can > > not be reused. But in art of communication they are top. Maybe open up > your > > communication on development, would be great. > > > > I would also like to see more jolla stuff in the shop. I still want to > buy > > the external keyboard or the solar panel for jolla. Bit i still can not > > find those in the Jolla shop. This is also an income Jolla must > participate > > in. Sell those stuff even from third party developers in your shop. > > I refuse to buy from the third party directly because I know how much
[SailfishDevel] QML WebView and localhost URLs when network is disconnected
Dear Sailors, My app provides HTTP server listening on 127.0.0.1 interface. On QML side, I'm using (Silica)WebView to show some content when phone is offline. After last (or one before last) phone's os upgrade, WebView component starts to behave different and it breaks some functionality in my app :-( The issue is when phone is disconnected from any data network (cellular nor WiFi). In such situation WebView rejects all attempts to open any URL, including URL pointing to my HTTP server listening on 127.0.0.1. If phone is connected, localhost URLs are opened normally although no network is used obviously. I would expect WebView to be able to open localhost URL also when phone is not connected to any data network. Have you ever faced a similar problem? Do you have any clue how to solve it? Thanks for helping me. -- Michal ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12
On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 07:28:17AM +, Peter Kovacs wrote: > Hello, > > I am not able to join on next community meeting due to work restrictions I > have. So I can not propose a topic. I am instead post my thoughts directly > to this list. > I think no 1 topic is to stabilise Dev efforts for SailfishOS. > I do not believe to simply put sailfish in multiple places will ensure its > existance. This would only be the case if SailfishOS would open source it's > Software. This would be the death of Jolla in my eyes at this point. > > I see rather a better strategy in a business model change. Instead of > trying to sell the OS to big companies sell the OS to your community. Selling it to bigger companies is the actual way to earn a lot of money. > I think the crowed funding method was quite successful. So I propose > another Crowed funding camagne. This has now to be a success. So I propose > something small. Like getting payment function into Jolla. > Perks could be to get better conditions after the Shop is live. Maybe 10% - > 50% off. > I do not know how much money you need to make add payment functionallities > and survive the next month) Won't generate enough revenue in this timeframe. > > Another step could be to have a System suscription. This system > subscription is made to ensure updates. It should not be much like 5-10 > euros a month. Free of choice if possible, enforce if neccessary. I have no > feeling how close Jolla is to the death. You pay 260€ (now it is 200€ I know) to then pay another 120€ to get upgrades? > I do like the Crowed funding mythology of star citizen. Most of them can > not be reused. But in art of communication they are top. Maybe open up your > communication on development, would be great. > > I would also like to see more jolla stuff in the shop. I still want to buy > the external keyboard or the solar panel for jolla. Bit i still can not > find those in the Jolla shop. This is also an income Jolla must participate > in. Sell those stuff even from third party developers in your shop. > I refuse to buy from the third party directly because I know how much jolla > needs the money. > > Get the old hardware section of jolla to develop some more second half > stuff. Like battery banks or 2nd phonecard connector. Maybe a mobility hub > for pcs. I do not know. How about another model, sell developer equipment. That could also go for a kickstarter - PCcovers without NFCchip, plain blank covers for cheap in packs of 10 with a handfull of solderpins that fit the connectors or 10 circuit foil sheets that can be soldered to your ideas. Still nothing that generates revenue fast but with a campaign and announcing a Jolla2 with the same TOH dimensions would give it some drive. Jolla2 announcing in terms of, if we survive we will do anotherone just like Jolla1 with improved hardware, coming 2017. On the other hand, doing a complete makeover of that sort is apart of more RAM and bigger mmc not even required. SFOS is now in a stae where any device vendor could jump in and generate a lot of revenue. No idea what google paid for their Nexus phones but I guess the deal zeroed out in the end. > > Sorry that this has nothing to do with development of source code. But I > think this is not really time for dreaming of open Source. > > I know that you might not like this steps, but I think there is no chance > in rearranging debts will lead you from the death valley you are in. > That is only one way to get bankrupted fast. > You must generate money quickly. That is the only way somebody will > continue to invest into Jolla. And a credit is also an investment of sort. > > This is an unpleasant message of sort. But jolla should focus on those > people has already convinced. Apple did that in their beginning. I know > some and they agree first iPhone were not very good. I think the sailfish > has potential but currently this potential is limited to the community you > have. And this are the ones here who prepare their products for sailfish, > and the ones who already spend money on the product. > > Please take a break from convincing people that can play Jolla against > android, blackberry and iOS. You can return to that dream if you got out of > the valley. Truth is, they need more funds to actually get noticed by people that would become a part of this community in a heartbeat. Just met a guy last week who bought an S6edge the other week and bit his hand when I told him what that phone and tablet on my table are. Looking at Apple, marketing is everything - they sold sour milk to cows and still do. Always fun seeing my iPhone and Android friends struggle with their phones. > > I have time from 14th Dec till end of the year. I will participate then in > the meetings and bug you to various topics around Jolla. I hope this helps. > > All the Best > Peter > > Carol Chen schrieb am Do., 26. Nov. 2015 > 17:17: > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks to everyone who attended today's meeting! Minutes
Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12
Eli, check https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/ Yes, Jolla is in a bad shape. Regarding the payment functionality, that everybody seems to push: I can't see how that could work, at this stage. There is not enough money in the Jolla market as it is to attract commercial developer, and using resources to allow paid application is a waste of money. That is my opinion based on a back-of the envelope calculation: - We don't know the exact number of phones sold, Let's be generous and say 100k phones are around and in use - Let's assume the user is willing to pay for 1euro each for 5 applications in the store - Let's say Jolla is taking 50% of the payment. I think the numbers are too high to be realistic, but we want to see if there is a possibility supporting paid applications makes business sense. So based on those numbers, we get 5 euro * 100_000 users / 2 = 250_000 euro It is not a lot of money for a company the size of Jolla. And it is money that could take months in coming in. So I do not think this is working. If you think my numbers are off, please tell me. My opinion has always been that the best bet for Jolla was to be as open source/free software friendly as possible, and simplify the work of porting existing applications from the Linux desktop as much as possible. Jolla should also consider the user base it has now, compared to the one they wish for, and build on it. I have no colleagues ion my office with a Jolla phone, and most do not even know about it. But in my open source circles, the Jolla is a hit, even with its half hearted open source policy. Well, that's it really. I do not have magic bullets to offer, I am afraid. Luciano On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 8:47 AM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: > > > 2015-11-27 9:28 GMT+02:00 Peter Kovacs : >> >> Hello, >> >> I am not able to join on next community meeting due to work restrictions I >> have. So I can not propose a topic. I am instead post my thoughts directly >> to this list. >> I think no 1 topic is to stabilise Dev efforts for SailfishOS. >> I do not believe to simply put sailfish in multiple places will ensure its >> existance. This would only be the case if SailfishOS would open source it's >> Software. This would be the death of Jolla in my eyes at this point. >> >> I see rather a better strategy in a business model change. Instead of >> trying to sell the OS to big companies sell the OS to your community. >> I think the crowed funding method was quite successful. So I propose >> another Crowed funding camagne. This has now to be a success. So I propose >> something small. Like getting payment function into Jolla. >> Perks could be to get better conditions after the Shop is live. Maybe 10% >> - 50% off. > > So for your support now Jolla would either have to take 0 margin on every > purchase you make in the store or the application developer would have to > take a hit. >> >> I do not know how much money you need to make add payment functionallities >> and survive the next month) >> >> Another step could be to have a System suscription. This system >> subscription is made to ensure updates. It should not be much like 5-10 >> euros a month. Free of choice if possible, enforce if neccessary. I have no >> feeling how close Jolla is to the death. >> I do like the Crowed funding mythology of star citizen. Most of them can >> not be reused. But in art of communication they are top. Maybe open up your >> communication on development, would be great. > > I know I (and probably a lot of others) would turn my back on Jolla the > moment they adopted the evil model you describe above, the core of > jolla/sailfish OS is open source and to start demanding money for updates is > wrong. > Personally I have been on this adventure since the days of the n900 and one > of the things that were/are very important to me is the fact that I know > that even if the company fails/pulls the plug there is a active community > that will continue to release bugfixes/improvements. > (BTW 5-10 EUR/month means you paid for another phone in 2 years, when I buy > a phone I estimate [price]/[expected use time] you just doubled the cost.) >> >> I would also like to see more jolla stuff in the shop. I still want to buy >> the external keyboard or the solar panel for jolla. Bit i still can not find >> those in the Jolla shop. This is also an income Jolla must participate in. >> Sell those stuff even from third party developers in your shop. >> I refuse to buy from the third party directly because I know how much >> jolla needs the money. > > The whole point of open sourcing the spec was that Jolla wanted others to > create stuff for their phone, expand it etc. it is most likely more > expensive for jolla to start selling products made/designed by 3rd parties > because it means that they need to actually stock up on the product, sell a > certain amount to brake even, take the risk of not selling that amount, take > the risk of needing to replace faulty hardware at
Re: [SailfishDevel] [Minutes] SailfishOS community meeting 26.11 + planning for next one 3.12
HI Eli, Well, I agree. Yes I am well aware what I am proposing. I am with the party with N950 and I bought that tablet with the idea of generating revenue. >From the links in the meeting minutes I read (please correct if I am wrong) jolla went out of the tablet adventure generating a lost because Software development cost for the version we enjoy now has not been covered by income of the tablets. Even worse a major investor dropped out of Jolla funding. I am Still wait on my tablet. It delays now from March I think. I am not in for refund. I'd the money is lost, it will be this way. I like my Jolla Phone a lot. And I like the mer base. I am not proposeing to move away from this structure. I am only proposing not to open the source of the Frontend (only part that is currently closed) I propose to generate Revenue. With revenue sailfish states in the market. Hopefully until the tablets are out of the door. Maybe even to gather resources to continue the adventure on new tech. My interest is also not to have a Samsung Sailfish phone. I rather spend my money on a Jolla phone. So the current business Modell does not earn from my participation. Because it tries to battle in markets were Mozilla and Ubuntu is quite active. With rumors that Blackberry moves to Android, market will get more dominated by android. And this OS is fully available as Open Source under the Apache license. Something we are not. See. Market does not care about the community effort. If this community thing wants to have a chance we have to find a way that Jolla can finance the core of the Sailfish platform. How do you want to achieve that? I would like to have a platform I do trust in. That is consumer community driven. Android is Producer community driven. I think we should work in this direction and get funds together to go there. I have some experience from Star Citizen. And one thing I learned there is that most people do not understand. That is why I propose subscription models and market platform shops. I am personally open for other approaches. Of course! It is not my call. It is Jolla's shot. And currently they hope to get someone else to break the market. I am not convinced this business modell working well. How many SailfishOS subscriptions there are? And how reliable are they? How reliable is the Jolla Community? What options are you willing to take in order to stay in the adventure? All the best Peter E.S. Rosenberg schrieb am Fr., 27. Nov. 2015 08:47: > 2015-11-27 9:28 GMT+02:00 Peter Kovacs : > >> Hello, >> >> I am not able to join on next community meeting due to work restrictions >> I have. So I can not propose a topic. I am instead post my thoughts >> directly to this list. >> I think no 1 topic is to stabilise Dev efforts for SailfishOS. >> I do not believe to simply put sailfish in multiple places will ensure >> its existance. This would only be the case if SailfishOS would open source >> it's Software. This would be the death of Jolla in my eyes at this point. >> >> I see rather a better strategy in a business model change. Instead of >> trying to sell the OS to big companies sell the OS to your community. >> I think the crowed funding method was quite successful. So I propose >> another Crowed funding camagne. This has now to be a success. So I propose >> something small. Like getting payment function into Jolla. >> Perks could be to get better conditions after the Shop is live. Maybe 10% >> - 50% off. >> > So for your support now Jolla would either have to take 0 margin on every > purchase you make in the store or the application developer would have to > take a hit. > >> I do not know how much money you need to make add payment >> functionallities and survive the next month) >> >> Another step could be to have a System suscription. This system >> subscription is made to ensure updates. It should not be much like 5-10 >> euros a month. Free of choice if possible, enforce if neccessary. I have no >> feeling how close Jolla is to the death. >> I do like the Crowed funding mythology of star citizen. Most of them can >> not be reused. But in art of communication they are top. Maybe open up your >> communication on development, would be great. >> > I know I (and probably a lot of others) would turn my back on Jolla the > moment they adopted the evil model you describe above, the core of > jolla/sailfish OS is open source and to start demanding money for updates > is wrong. > Personally I have been on this adventure since the days of the n900 and > one of the things that were/are very important to me is the fact that I > know that even if the company fails/pulls the plug there is a active > community that will continue to release bugfixes/improvements. > (BTW 5-10 EUR/month means you paid for another phone in 2 years, when I > buy a phone I estimate [price]/[expected use time] you just doubled the > cost.) > >> I would also like to see more jolla stuff in the shop. I still want to >> buy the external keyboard or
