Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
Hello all, FYI in this subject: https://www.qt.io/blog/moving-to-msvc-2022-in-qt-68 -- Vladimir On 12. Apr 2024, at 14:04, Oliver Wolff via Development wrote: Hey hey On 15/03/2024 16:47, Thiago Macieira wrote: On Monday, 5 February 2024 01:44:29 PDT Allan Sandfeld Jensen wrote: I was trying to drop support for it in qtwebengine in 6.7, but the problem was it was still used for qt packaging. But if we could at least switch packing to vs2022, it would mean we could drop it in QWE. Can we commit to this ASAP after the 6.7 release? We'll revisit later in the cycle whether we still need 2019. Do note that Microsoft is preparing the next release after 2022, as seen by their shipping 17.0 Tech Previews. Jörg accidentally broke the C++ language level set up in dev, meaning we didn't test C++20 mode with 2019 for a day or so, and some changes that trigger 2019's broken C++20 support went in. If we don't drop 2019 by 6.8 release, we should force it to only compile in C++17 mode. Sorry for the long silence. I talked to some people inside the company and we agreed on the following plan: We will try to get MSVC 2022 packages into 6.7 as soon as possible. For 6.8 we will then remove support for MSVC 2019 (and hope that not too many people rely on that being available in the next LTS release). That should give users some time to test the 2022 packages and they can report bugs and fall back to the 2019 packages if something breaks for them before we do the "hard cut". Cheers, Olli -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
Hey hey On 15/03/2024 16:47, Thiago Macieira wrote: On Monday, 5 February 2024 01:44:29 PDT Allan Sandfeld Jensen wrote: I was trying to drop support for it in qtwebengine in 6.7, but the problem was it was still used for qt packaging. But if we could at least switch packing to vs2022, it would mean we could drop it in QWE. Can we commit to this ASAP after the 6.7 release? We'll revisit later in the cycle whether we still need 2019. Do note that Microsoft is preparing the next release after 2022, as seen by their shipping 17.0 Tech Previews. Jörg accidentally broke the C++ language level set up in dev, meaning we didn't test C++20 mode with 2019 for a day or so, and some changes that trigger 2019's broken C++20 support went in. If we don't drop 2019 by 6.8 release, we should force it to only compile in C++17 mode. Sorry for the long silence. I talked to some people inside the company and we agreed on the following plan: We will try to get MSVC 2022 packages into 6.7 as soon as possible. For 6.8 we will then remove support for MSVC 2019 (and hope that not too many people rely on that being available in the next LTS release). That should give users some time to test the 2022 packages and they can report bugs and fall back to the 2019 packages if something breaks for them before we do the "hard cut". Cheers, Olli -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
On Monday, 5 February 2024 01:44:29 PDT Allan Sandfeld Jensen wrote: > I was trying to drop support for it in qtwebengine in 6.7, but the problem > was it was still used for qt packaging. But if we could at least switch > packing to vs2022, it would mean we could drop it in QWE. Can we commit to this ASAP after the 6.7 release? We'll revisit later in the cycle whether we still need 2019. Do note that Microsoft is preparing the next release after 2022, as seen by their shipping 17.0 Tech Previews. Jörg accidentally broke the C++ language level set up in dev, meaning we didn't test C++20 mode with 2019 for a day or so, and some changes that trigger 2019's broken C++20 support went in. If we don't drop 2019 by 6.8 release, we should force it to only compile in C++17 mode. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Principal Engineer - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
> MSVC2019 and MSVC2022 is supposed to be compatible. So in theory at least > packages made with MSVC2022 is still usable for MSVC2019 as well. It is just a > question of which compiler we use to generate the binaries with. That's not the case, at least according to Microsoft (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/porting/binary-compat-2015-2017?view=msvc-170): You can mix binaries built by different versions of the v140, v141, v142, and v143 toolsets. However, you must link by using a toolset at least as recent as the most recent binary in your app. As almost all Qt users link against the Qt libraries, they need to, therefore, use at least the Microsoft Compiler version that the CI uses. Kai -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
On Friday, 9 February 2024 10:59:07 CET Vladimir Minenko via Development wrote: > Hi, > > I also think we should first get the 2022 compiler packages available for > installation in parallel to the 2019 ones. This should be available for > users for a while so that they have a transition period. Along with this, > we should announce that the 2019 compiler will be dismissed by a specific > date. > As we introduce Linux on ARM desktops and later Windows on ARM desktops, > this can only be done IMHO after work on the release of 6.7 is finished, > meaning in some of the 6.7.x slots. > Considering removal of MSVC 2019 in "Supported Configurations” in > https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/windows.html should come after we provide a > transition solution, IMHO MSVC2019 and MSVC2022 is supposed to be compatible. So in theory at least packages made with MSVC2022 is still usable for MSVC2019 as well. It is just a question of which compiler we use to generate the binaries with. Best regards Allan -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
Hi! I wouldn't once again duplicate these msvc binary packages if that isn't really mandatory; we already have so many packages and more is coming all the time so something has to be dropped as well. msvc2022 is quite old already so I would just replace msvc2019 with msvc2022 from Qt 6.8 -> br, Jani From: Development On Behalf Of Vladimir Minenko via Development Sent: perjantai 9. helmikuuta 2024 11.59 To: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8) Hi, I also think we should first get the 2022 compiler packages available for installation in parallel to the 2019 ones. This should be available for users for a while so that they have a transition period. Along with this, we should announce that the 2019 compiler will be dismissed by a specific date. As we introduce Linux on ARM desktops and later Windows on ARM desktops, this can only be done IMHO after work on the release of 6.7 is finished, meaning in some of the 6.7.x slots. Considering removal of MSVC 2019 in "Supported Configurations" in https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/windows.html should come after we provide a transition solution, IMHO I fully appreciate the enthusiasm for using new capabilities in the newer compiler, but we should not forget the fact there are more users preferring the predictability of changes, and none like surprises with these topics. -- Vladimir On 6. Feb 2024, at 08:28, Allan Sandfeld Jensen mailto:k...@carewolf.com>> wrote: On Tuesday, 6 February 2024 06:57:34 CET Jani Heikkinen via Development wrote: How about instead we drop at an LTS+2 release? The next one is actually 6.7. We can't switch this in 6.7 at this point anymore; we don't have packages for MSVC2022 at the moment and doing this (adding new packages + removing ones) change this late of process is too risky Could you please switch packaging to msvc2022 in dev then, so we don\t have this discussion and excuse yet again in 6 months? Br Allan -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org<mailto:Development@qt-project.org> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
Hi, I also think we should first get the 2022 compiler packages available for installation in parallel to the 2019 ones. This should be available for users for a while so that they have a transition period. Along with this, we should announce that the 2019 compiler will be dismissed by a specific date. As we introduce Linux on ARM desktops and later Windows on ARM desktops, this can only be done IMHO after work on the release of 6.7 is finished, meaning in some of the 6.7.x slots. Considering removal of MSVC 2019 in "Supported Configurations” in https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/windows.html should come after we provide a transition solution, IMHO I fully appreciate the enthusiasm for using new capabilities in the newer compiler, but we should not forget the fact there are more users preferring the predictability of changes, and none like surprises with these topics. -- Vladimir On 6. Feb 2024, at 08:28, Allan Sandfeld Jensen wrote: On Tuesday, 6 February 2024 06:57:34 CET Jani Heikkinen via Development wrote: How about instead we drop at an LTS+2 release? The next one is actually 6.7. We can't switch this in 6.7 at this point anymore; we don't have packages for MSVC2022 at the moment and doing this (adding new packages + removing ones) change this late of process is too risky Could you please switch packaging to msvc2022 in dev then, so we don\t have this discussion and excuse yet again in 6 months? Br Allan -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
On Tuesday, 6 February 2024 06:57:34 CET Jani Heikkinen via Development wrote: > > How about instead we drop at an LTS+2 release? The next one is actually > > 6.7. > We can't switch this in 6.7 at this point anymore; we don't have packages > for MSVC2022 at the moment and doing this (adding new packages + removing > ones) change this late of process is too risky > Could you please switch packaging to msvc2022 in dev then, so we don\t have this discussion and excuse yet again in 6 months? Br Allan -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
> > How about instead we drop at an LTS+2 release? The next one is actually 6.7. > We can't switch this in 6.7 at this point anymore; we don't have packages for MSVC2022 at the moment and doing this (adding new packages + removing ones) change this late of process is too risky br, Jani -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
On Monday, 5 February 2024 01:39:47 PST Marc Mutz via Development wrote: > I think we don't drop supported compilers, except in LTS+1 releases (6.9 > being the next). I would advise you drop it before the LTS, so you don't have to keep supporting it for however long your LTS cycle is. How about instead we drop at an LTS+2 release? The next one is actually 6.7. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
On Saturday, 3 February 2024 18:08:25 CET Thiago Macieira wrote: > The compiler is pretty buggy and has several, unfixed conformance issues > with C++. > > One year ago I asked on the interest mailing list about using a non-latest > MSVC: > https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/interest/2023-January/038859.html > > The reasons reported for not going to the next were: > * regression in a newer version that MS hadn't fixed > * cost: they may have bought version X but not Y (yet) > * cost: re-certifying the entire tool environment > * because the associated tools (IDE) have other problems (UX) > * inertia > * because our builds are labelled "msvc2019" > > My conclusion then was that we could drop the older one, but our policy > should be to support an X-1 version of MSVC for as long as practicable, a > minimum of a few years. Well, in April this year, MSVC 2019 will be 5 years > old, though fortunately it's still getting updates. Considering MSVC 2022 > will be 3.5 at that time, I think it's time to drop. I was trying to drop support for it in qtwebengine in 6.7, but the problem was it was still used for qt packaging. But if we could at least switch packing to vs2022, it would mean we could drop it in QWE. Best regards Allan -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
I think we don't drop supported compilers, except in LTS+1 releases (6.9 being the next). On 03.02.24 18:08, Thiago Macieira wrote: > The compiler is pretty buggy and has several, unfixed conformance issues with > C++. > > One year ago I asked on the interest mailing list about using a non-latest > MSVC: > https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/interest/2023-January/038859.html > > The reasons reported for not going to the next were: > * regression in a newer version that MS hadn't fixed > * cost: they may have bought version X but not Y (yet) > * cost: re-certifying the entire tool environment > * because the associated tools (IDE) have other problems (UX) > * inertia > * because our builds are labelled "msvc2019" > > My conclusion then was that we could drop the older one, but our policy should > be to support an X-1 version of MSVC for as long as practicable, a minimum of > a few years. Well, in April this year, MSVC 2019 will be 5 years old, though > fortunately it's still getting updates. Considering MSVC 2022 will be 3.5 at > that time, I think it's time to drop. > > -- Marc Mutz Principal Software Engineer The Qt Company Erich-Thilo-Str. 10 12489 Berlin, Germany www.qt.io Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Jouni Lintunen Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
Thiago Macieira wrote in news:2865734.Ex9A2HvPv6@tjmaciei-mobl5: > * because our builds are labelled "msvc2019" Does the label reflect the compiler used? (I know 2019 and 2022 are binary compatible.) I haven't bothered to build the most recent 5.15.x open source version, but back at 5.15.10, qtwebengine builds would get compile errors with VC2022. It was just a few #includes needed in a few routines, but painful given how many hours the build would require. All source code I've needed to work on recently is now on Qt6 and 2022, so I guess I personally don't care if you drop 2019. -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
[Development] Let's drop MSVC 2019 for dev (6.8)
The compiler is pretty buggy and has several, unfixed conformance issues with C++. One year ago I asked on the interest mailing list about using a non-latest MSVC: https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/interest/2023-January/038859.html The reasons reported for not going to the next were: * regression in a newer version that MS hadn't fixed * cost: they may have bought version X but not Y (yet) * cost: re-certifying the entire tool environment * because the associated tools (IDE) have other problems (UX) * inertia * because our builds are labelled "msvc2019" My conclusion then was that we could drop the older one, but our policy should be to support an X-1 version of MSVC for as long as practicable, a minimum of a few years. Well, in April this year, MSVC 2019 will be 5 years old, though fortunately it's still getting updates. Considering MSVC 2022 will be 3.5 at that time, I think it's time to drop. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
