[freenet-dev] Simulating the network

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi Folks,

I just discovered Hynesim (http://www.hynesim.org/), which is about to
be released, and thought it might be useful for you.

Regards,

PS : Please answer to me too, I'm not subscribed to the list anymore...

[freenet-dev] Simulating the network

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi Folks,

I just discovered Hynesim (http://www.hynesim.org/), which is about to
be released, and thought it might be useful for you.

Regards,

PS : Please answer to me too, I'm not subscribed to the list anymore...
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[freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a ?crit :
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: devl-bounces at freenetproject.org 
>> [mailto:devl-bounces at freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Julien Cornuwel
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:31 PM
>> To: Discussion of development issues
>> Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks
>>
>> Fully agreed.
>>
>>> PS: Please give the private key of the WoT seed identity to the 
>>> project leaders. We will create a new one before release anyway but 
>>> for now it would be nice to have to keypair.
>> Done. The same keypair is used to hold the freesite and the 
>> seed identity.
>>
> 
> Thanks. I totally forgot about the Freesite. It looks nice so I'd 
> appreciate if you could also hand out the files which were used to
> create it, I suppose you used a tool for it.

Nope, it was a quick work so I just wrote the code... It is very simple.

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[freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a ?crit :
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: devl-bounces at freenetproject.org 
>> [mailto:devl-bounces at freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Julien Cornuwel
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:14 PM
>> To: Discussion of development issues
>> Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks
>>
>> Ed Tomlinson a ?crit :
>>> On December 27, 2008, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>>>> I'm sorry to tell you that for some legal reasons (I live 
>> in France), 
>>>> I have to stop working on Freenet. I've learned a lot with 
>> you guys 
>>>> and I'm sad to have to say goodbye, but that's how it is when you 
>>>> live in a so-called democracy...
>>> Julien,
>>>
>>> IF you can be more specific it probably would be of 
>> interest to all of 
>>> us on this list.
>> Well, it isn't new stuff but France has a copyright law 
>> (DADVSI) which is vague enough to be used against people who 
>> work on P2P softwares.
>>
>> In any case, it is the judge's job to tell if you are guilty 
>> or not, and I might won such a trial. But the judgement can 
>> be very long (up to several years) and, in the meantime, they 
>> have the right to seize your computers and every servers you 
>> rent in France, even if they are not related to the project.
>>
>> I didn't care about that until very recently but my situation 
>> is changing and I can't take that risk anymore : servers I 
>> rent are soon to be my only revenue stream.
>>
>> More information about DADVSI (in english) :
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DADVSI
> 
> This sucks =(

Fully agreed.

> PS: Please give the private key of the WoT seed identity to the project
> leaders. We will create a new one before release anyway but for now it would
> be nice to have to keypair.

Done. The same keypair is used to hold the freesite and the seed identity.

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[freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

Ed Tomlinson a ?crit :
> On December 27, 2008, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> I'm sorry to tell you that for some legal reasons (I live in France), I
>> have to stop working on Freenet. I've learned a lot with you guys and
>> I'm sad to have to say goodbye, but that's how it is when you live in a
>> so-called democracy...
> 
> Julien,
> 
> IF you can be more specific it probably would be of interest to all of us on 
> this 
> list.

Well, it isn't new stuff but France has a copyright law (DADVSI) which
is vague enough to be used against people who work on P2P softwares.

In any case, it is the judge's job to tell if you are guilty or not, and
I might won such a trial. But the judgement can be very long (up to
several years) and, in the meantime, they have the right to seize your
computers and every servers you rent in France, even if they are not
related to the project.

I didn't care about that until very recently but my situation is
changing and I can't take that risk anymore : servers I rent are soon to
be my only revenue stream.

More information about DADVSI (in english) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DADVSI

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Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a écrit :
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: devl-boun...@freenetproject.org 
>> [mailto:devl-boun...@freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Julien Cornuwel
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:31 PM
>> To: Discussion of development issues
>> Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks
>>
>> Fully agreed.
>>
>>> PS: Please give the private key of the WoT seed identity to the 
>>> project leaders. We will create a new one before release anyway but 
>>> for now it would be nice to have to keypair.
>> Done. The same keypair is used to hold the freesite and the 
>> seed identity.
>>
> 
> Thanks. I totally forgot about the Freesite. It looks nice so I'd 
> appreciate if you could also hand out the files which were used to
> create it, I suppose you used a tool for it.

Nope, it was a quick work so I just wrote the code... It is very simple.



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Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a écrit :
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: devl-boun...@freenetproject.org 
>> [mailto:devl-boun...@freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Julien Cornuwel
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:14 PM
>> To: Discussion of development issues
>> Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks
>>
>> Ed Tomlinson a écrit :
>>> On December 27, 2008, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>>>> I'm sorry to tell you that for some legal reasons (I live 
>> in France), 
>>>> I have to stop working on Freenet. I've learned a lot with 
>> you guys 
>>>> and I'm sad to have to say goodbye, but that's how it is when you 
>>>> live in a so-called democracy...
>>> Julien,
>>>
>>> IF you can be more specific it probably would be of 
>> interest to all of 
>>> us on this list.
>> Well, it isn't new stuff but France has a copyright law 
>> (DADVSI) which is vague enough to be used against people who 
>> work on P2P softwares.
>>
>> In any case, it is the judge's job to tell if you are guilty 
>> or not, and I might won such a trial. But the judgement can 
>> be very long (up to several years) and, in the meantime, they 
>> have the right to seize your computers and every servers you 
>> rent in France, even if they are not related to the project.
>>
>> I didn't care about that until very recently but my situation 
>> is changing and I can't take that risk anymore : servers I 
>> rent are soon to be my only revenue stream.
>>
>> More information about DADVSI (in english) :
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DADVSI
> 
> This sucks =(

Fully agreed.

> PS: Please give the private key of the WoT seed identity to the project
> leaders. We will create a new one before release anyway but for now it would
> be nice to have to keypair.

Done. The same keypair is used to hold the freesite and the seed identity.



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Re: [freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

Ed Tomlinson a écrit :
> On December 27, 2008, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> I'm sorry to tell you that for some legal reasons (I live in France), I
>> have to stop working on Freenet. I've learned a lot with you guys and
>> I'm sad to have to say goodbye, but that's how it is when you live in a
>> so-called democracy...
> 
> Julien,
> 
> IF you can be more specific it probably would be of interest to all of us on 
> this 
> list.

Well, it isn't new stuff but France has a copyright law (DADVSI) which
is vague enough to be used against people who work on P2P softwares.

In any case, it is the judge's job to tell if you are guilty or not, and
I might won such a trial. But the judgement can be very long (up to
several years) and, in the meantime, they have the right to seize your
computers and every servers you rent in France, even if they are not
related to the project.

I didn't care about that until very recently but my situation is
changing and I can't take that risk anymore : servers I rent are soon to
be my only revenue stream.

More information about DADVSI (in english) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DADVSI



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[freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi,


I'm sorry to tell you that for some legal reasons (I live in France), I
have to stop working on Freenet. I've learned a lot with you guys and
I'm sad to have to say goodbye, but that's how it is when you live in a
so-called democracy...

I'm sure pOs will be able to finish the WoT plugin and make something
usable with it.
Dieppe is OK to continue the french translation.
Nextgens has already removed my mirror from the DNS.
I'm still looking for a server to host the french forum (punbb). It has
a very low traffic (about 10 messages per week).

Please revoke all my accesses to emu (shell, svn, email), remove my name
from the People page and remove my node from the freenode list.


Keep up the good work guys !

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[freenet-dev] Bye folks

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi,


I'm sorry to tell you that for some legal reasons (I live in France), I
have to stop working on Freenet. I've learned a lot with you guys and
I'm sad to have to say goodbye, but that's how it is when you live in a
so-called democracy...

I'm sure pOs will be able to finish the WoT plugin and make something
usable with it.
Dieppe is OK to continue the french translation.
Nextgens has already removed my mirror from the DNS.
I'm still looking for a server to host the french forum (punbb). It has
a very low traffic (about 10 messages per week).

Please revoke all my accesses to emu (shell, svn, email), remove my name
from the People page and remove my node from the freenode list.


Keep up the good work guys !



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[freenet-dev] Use cases for GUI

[Julien Cornuwel]

Klaus Koch a ?crit :
> Talking about the webinterface: what immediately comes to my mind, is a 
> decent 
> bookmarks editor. Following would increase both usability and security 
> (additionally, it would be a good "standalone" project):
> 
> - (optional) password encrypted bookmarks.dat

Maybe it could be linked to the identity, which can be (at the admin's
choice) password protected ?


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Re: [freenet-dev] Use cases for GUI

[Julien Cornuwel]

Klaus Koch a écrit :
> Talking about the webinterface: what immediately comes to my mind, is a 
> decent 
> bookmarks editor. Following would increase both usability and security 
> (additionally, it would be a good "standalone" project):
> 
> - (optional) password encrypted bookmarks.dat

Maybe it could be linked to the identity, which can be (at the admin's
choice) password protected ?




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[freenet-dev] Packaging: Linux, Windows issues was Re: Installation -

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Tuesday 25 November 2008 14:10, Zero3 wrote:
>> Ian Clarke skrev:
>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:04 AM, Zero3  wrote:
>>>   
 but assuming Linux is the future, and Linux apps ought to be packaged 
> anyway, we only have Windows
 and Mac left, leaving less reason
>>> An unwarranted assumption.
> 
> As a convicted linux/Free Software zealot, I still have to side with Ian here.
>>>   
>> True. But don't you agree that Linux is gaining market share at the 
>> moment, that these new users prefer the easy GUI-based distros like 
>> Ubuntu, and the de-facto standard of installing software on these 
>> distros are via packaging systems? Getting Freenet packaged (and 
>> prepared to be such properly) and available in the Debian/Ubuntu 
>> repository seems like a great step towards a more user-friendly 
>> installation on Freenet on Linux. 

Maybe there is another option. Look at the package flashplugin-nonfree...

Maybe we could create a package that just contains necessary scripts to
run a freenet node and downloads latest jars from official mirrors. With
auto-update on, this could be usable.

I'll have a look at in soon, so you can decide to make it official or not.

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Re: [freenet-dev] Packaging: Linux, Windows issues was Re: Installation -

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Tuesday 25 November 2008 14:10, Zero3 wrote:
>> Ian Clarke skrev:
>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:04 AM, Zero3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>   
 but assuming Linux is the future, and Linux apps ought to be packaged 
> anyway, we only have Windows
 and Mac left, leaving less reason
>>> An unwarranted assumption.
> 
> As a convicted linux/Free Software zealot, I still have to side with Ian here.
>>>   
>> True. But don't you agree that Linux is gaining market share at the 
>> moment, that these new users prefer the easy GUI-based distros like 
>> Ubuntu, and the de-facto standard of installing software on these 
>> distros are via packaging systems? Getting Freenet packaged (and 
>> prepared to be such properly) and available in the Debian/Ubuntu 
>> repository seems like a great step towards a more user-friendly 
>> installation on Freenet on Linux. 

Maybe there is another option. Look at the package flashplugin-nonfree...

Maybe we could create a package that just contains necessary scripts to
run a freenet node and downloads latest jars from official mirrors. With
auto-update on, this could be usable.

I'll have a look at in soon, so you can decide to make it official or not.



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23675 - in trunk/plugins/WoT: . ui/web

[Julien Cornuwel]

bombe at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: bombe
> Date: 2008-11-17 01:51:52 + (Mon, 17 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23675
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WebInterface.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/ui/web/TrusteesPage.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/ui/web/TrustersPage.java
> Log:
> Implement Trustee and Truster web pages.

Nice ! Thanks a lot for these two commits. I knew I had to do it but
couldn't find the motivation to do so... Oops, shouldn't have said that.
In fact, I was too busy (who said 'lazy' ?). ^^

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23675 - in trunk/plugins/WoT: . ui/web

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: bombe
> Date: 2008-11-17 01:51:52 + (Mon, 17 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23675
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WebInterface.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/ui/web/TrusteesPage.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/ui/web/TrustersPage.java
> Log:
> Implement Trustee and Truster web pages.

Nice ! Thanks a lot for these two commits. I knew I had to do it but
couldn't find the motivation to do so... Oops, shouldn't have said that.
In fact, I was too busy (who said 'lazy' ?). ^^



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[freenet-dev] financial status

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a ?crit :
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: devl-bounces at freenetproject.org 
>> [mailto:devl-bounces at freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Zero3
>> - Figure out what else you can "reward" donators with, 
>> besides credit on the website. Throw some Freenet branded 
>> stickers and a mug after people who've donated at least 100$, 
>> other wacky things etc. It's much more fun donating money if 
>> you get some kind of proof/credit/item/etc. in one way or another.
>>
> 
> I really want a Freenet sticker which I can put onto my notebook so
> people who see me in university will ask me what Freenet is.

http://www.cafepress.com/freenetproject.5587515

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Re: [freenet-dev] financial status

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a écrit :
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zero3
>> - Figure out what else you can "reward" donators with, 
>> besides credit on the website. Throw some Freenet branded 
>> stickers and a mug after people who've donated at least 100$, 
>> other wacky things etc. It's much more fun donating money if 
>> you get some kind of proof/credit/item/etc. in one way or another.
>>
> 
> I really want a Freenet sticker which I can put onto my notebook so
> people who see me in university will ask me what Freenet is.

http://www.cafepress.com/freenetproject.5587515



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[freenet-dev] Wither Freemail in favor of Freetalk?

[Julien Cornuwel]

Colin Davis a ?crit :
> Your state of the project post has me thinking about Freemail- I think 
> that the system is a really nice idea, and I love the fact that you can 
> connect to a standard Mail client, but I think it might be best to 
> retire the system in favor of a modified version of Freetalk.
> 
> 
> The primary reason I favor using a modified Freetalk board for email is 
> that it is recycles a lot of what people are already using-
> You don't need to create one identity to post to the boards, and then a 
> whole separate identity for email.. You don't need to get used to 
> posting to the boards via  web interface, and then switch to, and 
> configure Thunderbird in order to do messaging back and forth. This 
> lowers the barrier of entry to users adopting/using the system.

Right, newcommers are used to forums, and forums have a 'private
message' feature. A nice point would be that freetalk adds a public key
as a custom property of the identity, and automagically encrypt messages
for the destination...

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Re: [freenet-dev] Wither Freemail in favor of Freetalk?

[Julien Cornuwel]

Colin Davis a écrit :
> Your state of the project post has me thinking about Freemail- I think 
> that the system is a really nice idea, and I love the fact that you can 
> connect to a standard Mail client, but I think it might be best to 
> retire the system in favor of a modified version of Freetalk.
> 
> 
> The primary reason I favor using a modified Freetalk board for email is 
> that it is recycles a lot of what people are already using-
> You don't need to create one identity to post to the boards, and then a 
> whole separate identity for email.. You don't need to get used to 
> posting to the boards via  web interface, and then switch to, and 
> configure Thunderbird in order to do messaging back and forth. This 
> lowers the barrier of entry to users adopting/using the system.

Right, newcommers are used to forums, and forums have a 'private
message' feature. A nice point would be that freetalk adds a public key
as a custom property of the identity, and automagically encrypt messages
for the destination...



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23480 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a ?crit :
>  
>> Caution, this calculation is very expensive and difficult to 
>> do backwards. To calculate an identity's score, you need to 
>> know its trusters capacity and so on...
> 
> I know. But we will have to test whether the plugin's database
> stays consistent over a long time. Threading issues etc. might
> break it.
> 
> Aand this is one of the only ways of testing.
> The getScore()==getRealScore() check should be run in debug mode
> only (i.e. assert()) of course. Or maybe once a day in the first
> few releases of WoT.

After further thinking, I can't figure a way to do this calculation
backwards. If the goal is to check consistency, our best option is
simply to build a new trust tree from scratch, and compare each
identity's score to the new one.

Maybe we should even do it regularily (rebuild the entire trust tree),
or at least, give an option to do it when needed.

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23480 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a écrit :
>  
>> Caution, this calculation is very expensive and difficult to 
>> do backwards. To calculate an identity's score, you need to 
>> know its trusters capacity and so on...
> 
> I know. But we will have to test whether the plugin's database
> stays consistent over a long time. Threading issues etc. might
> break it.
> 
> Aand this is one of the only ways of testing.
> The getScore()==getRealScore() check should be run in debug mode
> only (i.e. assert()) of course. Or maybe once a day in the first
> few releases of WoT.

After further thinking, I can't figure a way to do this calculation
backwards. If the goal is to check consistency, our best option is
simply to build a new trust tree from scratch, and compare each
identity's score to the new one.

Maybe we should even do it regularily (rebuild the entire trust tree),
or at least, give an option to do it when needed.



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23485 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-11 13:22:10 + (Tue, 11 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23485
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java
> Log:
> Add FIXME with a question, please answer.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java 2008-11-11 12:52:44 UTC (rev 
> 23484)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java 2008-11-11 13:22:10 UTC (rev 
> 23485)
> @@ -96,6 +96,8 @@
>*/
>   public IdentityHandler() {
>   }
> + 
> + /* FIXME: How is the root elemenet of the document handled?! 
> The document format is  ... .

It's not. I didn't bother with it because IdentityHandler is called by
IdentityFetcher, which only fetches Identities.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23480 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-11 09:26:12 + (Tue, 11 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23480
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/Identity.java
> Log:
> Add FIXME.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/Identity.java
> + /* 
> +  * FIXME:
> +  * I suggest before releasing we should write a getRealScore() function 
> which recalculates the score from all Trust objects which are stored
> +  * in the database. We could then assert(getScore() == getRealScore()) 
> for verifying that the database is consistent and watch for some time
> +  * whether it stays consistent, just to make sure that there are no 
> flaws in the code.
> +  */

Caution, this calculation is very expensive and difficult to do
backwards. To calculate an identity's score, you need to know its
trusters capacity and so on...

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23485 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-11 13:22:10 + (Tue, 11 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23485
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java
> Log:
> Add FIXME with a question, please answer.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java 2008-11-11 12:52:44 UTC (rev 
> 23484)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityParser.java 2008-11-11 13:22:10 UTC (rev 
> 23485)
> @@ -96,6 +96,8 @@
>*/
>   public IdentityHandler() {
>   }
> + 
> + /* FIXME: How is the root elemenet of the document handled?! 
> The document format is  ... .

It's not. I didn't bother with it because IdentityHandler is called by
IdentityFetcher, which only fetches Identities.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23480 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-11 09:26:12 + (Tue, 11 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23480
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/Identity.java
> Log:
> Add FIXME.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/Identity.java
> + /* 
> +  * FIXME:
> +  * I suggest before releasing we should write a getRealScore() function 
> which recalculates the score from all Trust objects which are stored
> +  * in the database. We could then assert(getScore() == getRealScore()) 
> for verifying that the database is consistent and watch for some time
> +  * whether it stays consistent, just to make sure that there are no 
> flaws in the code.
> +  */

Caution, this calculation is very expensive and difficult to do
backwards. To calculate an identity's score, you need to know its
trusters capacity and so on...



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23456 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-09 23:00:27 + (Sun, 09 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23456
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Don't always create an identity

Why ? The idea was to create an identity ASAP to allow the plugin to
start fetching identities. That way, people would have a WoT sooner...

It is because we don't try to fetch trustees of id that don't have a
positive score. And to get a score, we need an OwnIdentity trusting the
seed identity.

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23456 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-09 23:00:27 + (Sun, 09 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23456
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Don't always create an identity

Why ? The idea was to create an identity ASAP to allow the plugin to
start fetching identities. That way, people would have a WoT sooner...

It is because we don't try to fetch trustees of id that don't have a
positive score. And to get a score, we need an OwnIdentity trusting the
seed identity.



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23121 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a ?crit :
> 
>>> +   public ObjectSet getAllOwnIdentities() {
>>> +   // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
>>> +   throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
>>> +   }
>> Oops, this is not really the way the plugin is supposed to be used.
>> Explaination follows.
>>
>> The client is supposed to know which identity he uses. If we 
>> provide such feature, this is an anonymity breach. Example :
>>
>> I'm sharing my freenet node with someone that is on the same 
>> LAN (because of bandwith limitation). We can keep each other 
>> inserts/downloads secret by not using the public queue. If a 
>> client is able to ask for every own identities, I can easily 
>> know what are my friend's identities.
> 
> You are right.
> But the function was not meant to expose all identities to the 
> public on the webinterface. I will provide some way of
> authentication.

What about modifying my OwnIdentity object to add a password string ?
You could then use something like OwnIdentity.getByCred(nickname,password)
If it is OK for you, I will try to write it this week-end.

> Instead, what I want is to be able to use instances of the
> WoT-classes directly in FMS. FMS/WoT needs to be fast even
> if there are 1 identities. Therefore, we cannot use
> FCP or SimpleFieldSet. It would require lots of memory
> and a lot of copying stuff around.

Oh. I didn't thought it was going to create such overload. If you think
it is necessary, go for it.

>>> +   public ObjectSet getAllIdentities() {
>>> +   // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
>>> +   throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
>>> +   }
>>> +   
>> Client should not ask for every identities but only for those 
>> he is interrested in. IE : those that are in his context and 
>> that have a positive score. This is what GetIdentitiesByScore 
>> FCPplugin message is for :
> 
> That function was a quick-shot, I did not really think about it.
> GetIdentitiesByScore is exaclty what I need. But as a direct
> function call from FMS, not as FCP. 
> 
>> Generally, a client should not try to store the entire WoT : 
>> it should ask regularily to the WoTplugin. It is less work 
>> for the client developper and a guarantee of using up-to-date 
>> informations.
> 
> I know this and I want to avoid ANY copying of data from WoT.
> It will be something like that:
> 
> class FMSIdentity {
> private Identity wotIdentity;
> ...
> }

So, you are planning to get a connection to my database file and use my
methods to access it ? Do I understand it right ? If so, we will
definitely need some synchronisation, or even a server thread to avoid
database corruption.

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23121 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor a écrit :
> 
>>> +   public ObjectSet getAllOwnIdentities() {
>>> +   // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
>>> +   throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
>>> +   }
>> Oops, this is not really the way the plugin is supposed to be used.
>> Explaination follows.
>>
>> The client is supposed to know which identity he uses. If we 
>> provide such feature, this is an anonymity breach. Example :
>>
>> I'm sharing my freenet node with someone that is on the same 
>> LAN (because of bandwith limitation). We can keep each other 
>> inserts/downloads secret by not using the public queue. If a 
>> client is able to ask for every own identities, I can easily 
>> know what are my friend's identities.
> 
> You are right.
> But the function was not meant to expose all identities to the 
> public on the webinterface. I will provide some way of
> authentication.

What about modifying my OwnIdentity object to add a password string ?
You could then use something like OwnIdentity.getByCred(nickname,password)
If it is OK for you, I will try to write it this week-end.

> Instead, what I want is to be able to use instances of the
> WoT-classes directly in FMS. FMS/WoT needs to be fast even
> if there are 1 identities. Therefore, we cannot use
> FCP or SimpleFieldSet. It would require lots of memory
> and a lot of copying stuff around.

Oh. I didn't thought it was going to create such overload. If you think
it is necessary, go for it.

>>> +   public ObjectSet getAllIdentities() {
>>> +   // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
>>> +   throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
>>> +   }
>>> +   
>> Client should not ask for every identities but only for those 
>> he is interrested in. IE : those that are in his context and 
>> that have a positive score. This is what GetIdentitiesByScore 
>> FCPplugin message is for :
> 
> That function was a quick-shot, I did not really think about it.
> GetIdentitiesByScore is exaclty what I need. But as a direct
> function call from FMS, not as FCP. 
> 
>> Generally, a client should not try to store the entire WoT : 
>> it should ask regularily to the WoTplugin. It is less work 
>> for the client developper and a guarantee of using up-to-date 
>> informations.
> 
> I know this and I want to avoid ANY copying of data from WoT.
> It will be something like that:
> 
> class FMSIdentity {
> private Identity wotIdentity;
> ...
> }

So, you are planning to get a connection to my database file and use my
methods to access it ? Do I understand it right ? If so, we will
definitely need some synchronisation, or even a server thread to avoid
database corruption.



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[freenet-dev] Naming of plugins in svn

[Julien Cornuwel]

Tommy[D] a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> for the naming of WoT and FMS:
> 
> both terms are used by the current c++-fms and stand for a specific 
> implementation. The current code
> in trunk named WoT and FMS are imcompactible, so i would suggest to rename 
> both parts to something
> else to not confuse people about their ability and goal.
> 
> I would suggest to use "WoT" and "FMS" only for Versions compactible to the 
> original version. saces
> is currently working on a c++-compactible version of the fmsplugin, so at 
> least for the second thing
> there exists something real.

I disagree :

- WoT is an acronym for a generic term, Web of Trust, that I couldn't
find anywhere in FMS' interface. I saw peers, peer trust... but not WoT.
I don't think that an anonymous-unofficial-prototype using the word in
its code is a sufficient reason to change the name of an official
plugin. WoT is a feature, not a copyrighted brand.
- FMS means Freenet Message System, which is quite generic too. The word
Freenet in its name suggest that it is an official client, whereas it is
not.
- I think I read somewhere that the FMSplugin was not going to be
compatible with the prototype, maybe I'm wrong, please confirm.

As a general concern, I don't think that the primary objective of the
project is to be compatible with third-party unsupported prototypes.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23275 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Tuesday 04 November 2008 18:21, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
>>> On Tuesday 04 November 2008 09:15, Sam wrote:
>>>>>> Modified:
>>>>>>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
>>>>>> Log:
>>>>>> Add FIXME: I don't see any synchronization there, this 
>>>>> won't work, will it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where ?
>>>> In the place where I added the FIXME. But actually there is no
>>>> synchronization at all in the WoT plugin it seems. 
>> There is no FIXME in IdentityFetcher.java, hence my question.
>>
>>>> But it's not a really big problem to add it I guess. I will
>>>> probably do it when I add synchronization to FMS if it has not
>>>> been done then yet.
>>> Transactions may be an issue too. However, if every operation initiated by 
> a 
>>> client starts fresh and then does a commit, and there is a BFL protecting 
>>> everything, it should work acceptably. Multiple database operations on 
>>> different threads might be a problem.
>> There are only two threads :
>> - The plugin itself that perform every requests and client interaction.
> 
> The FMS plugin you mean?

No, I was talking about the WoTplugin. But when I think about it, I'm
not sure that it is run in a dedicated thread.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23275 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Tuesday 04 November 2008 09:15, Sam wrote:
 Modified:
trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
 Log:
 Add FIXME: I don't see any synchronization there, this 
>>> won't work, will it?
>>>
>>> Where ?
>> In the place where I added the FIXME. But actually there is no
>> synchronization at all in the WoT plugin it seems. 

There is no FIXME in IdentityFetcher.java, hence my question.

>> But it's not a really big problem to add it I guess. I will
>> probably do it when I add synchronization to FMS if it has not
>> been done then yet.
> 
> Transactions may be an issue too. However, if every operation initiated by a 
> client starts fresh and then does a commit, and there is a BFL protecting 
> everything, it should work acceptably. Multiple database operations on 
> different threads might be a problem.

There are only two threads :
- The plugin itself that perform every requests and client interaction.
- The IdentityInserter. Its only database operation is to update
OwnIdentities insert date.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23121 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-10-27 22:24:24 + (Mon, 27 Oct 2008)
> New Revision: 23121
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Add functions which need to be implemented for FMS.

Oops, this is not really the way the plugin is supposed to be used.
Explaination follows.

> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-10-27 21:55:28 UTC (rev 23120)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-10-27 22:24:24 UTC (rev 23121)
> @@ -731,6 +731,16 @@
>   return seed;
>   }
>   
> + public ObjectSet getAllOwnIdentities() {
> + // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
> + throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
> + }

The client is supposed to know which identity he uses. If we provide
such feature, this is an anonymity breach. Example :

I'm sharing my freenet node with someone that is on the same LAN
(because of bandwith limitation). We can keep each other
inserts/downloads secret by not using the public queue. If a client is
able to ask for every own identities, I can easily know what are my
friend's identities.

Of course, the web interface has to be modified accordingly. The current
ui is only for debugging. The final one should offer an authentication
form (maybe integrated to Fproxy's interface) as soon as there is more
than one OwnIdentity.

> + public ObjectSet getAllIdentities() {
> + // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
> + throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
> + }
> + 

Client should not ask for every identities but only for those he is
interrested in. IE : those that are in his context and that have a
positive score. This is what GetIdentitiesByScore FCPplugin message is for :

FCPPluginMessage
Identifier=FMSplugin
PluginName=plugins.WoT.WoTplugin
Param.Message=GetIdentitiesByScore
Param.TreeOwner=USK at ...
Param.Select=+|0|-
Param.Context=FMSplugin
EndMessage

FCPPluginReply
PluginName=plugins.WoT.WoTplugin
Identifier=moohmooh
Replies.Message=Identities
Replies.Identity1=USK at ...
Replies.Identity2=USK at ...
Replies.Identity3=USK at ...
...
EndMessage


Generally, a client should not try to store the entire WoT : it should
ask regularily to the WoTplugin. It is less work for the client
developper and a guarantee of using up-to-date informations.

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Re: [freenet-dev] Naming of plugins in svn

[Julien Cornuwel]

Tommy[D] a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> for the naming of WoT and FMS:
> 
> both terms are used by the current c++-fms and stand for a specific 
> implementation. The current code
> in trunk named WoT and FMS are imcompactible, so i would suggest to rename 
> both parts to something
> else to not confuse people about their ability and goal.
> 
> I would suggest to use "WoT" and "FMS" only for Versions compactible to the 
> original version. saces
> is currently working on a c++-compactible version of the fmsplugin, so at 
> least for the second thing
> there exists something real.

I disagree :

- WoT is an acronym for a generic term, Web of Trust, that I couldn't
find anywhere in FMS' interface. I saw peers, peer trust... but not WoT.
I don't think that an anonymous-unofficial-prototype using the word in
its code is a sufficient reason to change the name of an official
plugin. WoT is a feature, not a copyrighted brand.
- FMS means Freenet Message System, which is quite generic too. The word
Freenet in its name suggest that it is an official client, whereas it is
not.
- I think I read somewhere that the FMSplugin was not going to be
compatible with the prototype, maybe I'm wrong, please confirm.

As a general concern, I don't think that the primary objective of the
project is to be compatible with third-party unsupported prototypes.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23275 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Tuesday 04 November 2008 18:21, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a écrit :
>>> On Tuesday 04 November 2008 09:15, Sam wrote:
>>>>>> Modified:
>>>>>>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
>>>>>> Log:
>>>>>> Add FIXME: I don't see any synchronization there, this 
>>>>> won't work, will it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where ?
>>>> In the place where I added the FIXME. But actually there is no
>>>> synchronization at all in the WoT plugin it seems. 
>> There is no FIXME in IdentityFetcher.java, hence my question.
>>
>>>> But it's not a really big problem to add it I guess. I will
>>>> probably do it when I add synchronization to FMS if it has not
>>>> been done then yet.
>>> Transactions may be an issue too. However, if every operation initiated by 
> a 
>>> client starts fresh and then does a commit, and there is a BFL protecting 
>>> everything, it should work acceptably. Multiple database operations on 
>>> different threads might be a problem.
>> There are only two threads :
>> - The plugin itself that perform every requests and client interaction.
> 
> The FMS plugin you mean?

No, I was talking about the WoTplugin. But when I think about it, I'm
not sure that it is run in a dedicated thread.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23275 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Tuesday 04 November 2008 09:15, Sam wrote:
 Modified:
trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
 Log:
 Add FIXME: I don't see any synchronization there, this 
>>> won't work, will it?
>>>
>>> Where ?
>> In the place where I added the FIXME. But actually there is no
>> synchronization at all in the WoT plugin it seems. 

There is no FIXME in IdentityFetcher.java, hence my question.

>> But it's not a really big problem to add it I guess. I will
>> probably do it when I add synchronization to FMS if it has not
>> been done then yet.
> 
> Transactions may be an issue too. However, if every operation initiated by a 
> client starts fresh and then does a commit, and there is a BFL protecting 
> everything, it should work acceptably. Multiple database operations on 
> different threads might be a problem.

There are only two threads :
- The plugin itself that perform every requests and client interaction.
- The IdentityInserter. Its only database operation is to update
OwnIdentities insert date.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23121 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-10-27 22:24:24 + (Mon, 27 Oct 2008)
> New Revision: 23121
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Add functions which need to be implemented for FMS.

Oops, this is not really the way the plugin is supposed to be used.
Explaination follows.

> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-10-27 21:55:28 UTC (rev 23120)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-10-27 22:24:24 UTC (rev 23121)
> @@ -731,6 +731,16 @@
>   return seed;
>   }
>   
> + public ObjectSet getAllOwnIdentities() {
> + // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
> + throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
> + }

The client is supposed to know which identity he uses. If we provide
such feature, this is an anonymity breach. Example :

I'm sharing my freenet node with someone that is on the same LAN
(because of bandwith limitation). We can keep each other
inserts/downloads secret by not using the public queue. If a client is
able to ask for every own identities, I can easily know what are my
friend's identities.

Of course, the web interface has to be modified accordingly. The current
ui is only for debugging. The final one should offer an authentication
form (maybe integrated to Fproxy's interface) as soon as there is more
than one OwnIdentity.

> + public ObjectSet getAllIdentities() {
> + // FIXME: Implement this, needed by FMS.
> + throw new UnsupportedOperationException();
> + }
> + 

Client should not ask for every identities but only for those he is
interrested in. IE : those that are in his context and that have a
positive score. This is what GetIdentitiesByScore FCPplugin message is for :

FCPPluginMessage
Identifier=FMSplugin
PluginName=plugins.WoT.WoTplugin
Param.Message=GetIdentitiesByScore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Param.Select=+|0|-
Param.Context=FMSplugin
EndMessage

FCPPluginReply
PluginName=plugins.WoT.WoTplugin
Identifier=moohmooh
Replies.Message=Identities
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
EndMessage


Generally, a client should not try to store the entire WoT : it should
ask regularily to the WoTplugin. It is less work for the client
developper and a guarantee of using up-to-date informations.



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23292 - trunk/website/pages/en

[Julien Cornuwel]

toad at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: toad
> Date: 2008-11-03 19:28:41 + (Mon, 03 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23292
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/website/pages/en/news.php
> Log:
> Update $:?\194?\163 ratio from xe.com on 03/11/08.
> I will update this when I remember, hopefully once a week.


You can fetch the ratio from Yahoo directly with something like this :

$fp =
fopen('http://fr.finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?s=USDGBP=X&f=snl1d1t1c1ohgv&e=.csv',"r");
$content = fread($fp,1024);
$fields = explode(';',$content,5);
$ratio=$fields[2];

You might want to do it in a cron task and store the value in a file, to
avoid delays.

I tried to do it myself but I'm not allowed to commit on the website
part of the SVN.


> Modified: trunk/website/pages/en/news.php
> ===
> --- trunk/website/pages/en/news.php   2008-11-03 10:02:41 UTC (rev 23291)
> +++ trunk/website/pages/en/news.php   2008-11-03 19:28:41 UTC (rev 23292)
> @@ -11,7 +11,7 @@
>   fclose($handle);
>  
>   $totalUSD = ($paypalTotal + 4820.11);
> - $totalBGP = $totalUSD * 0.61460;
> + $totalBGP = $totalUSD * 0.63354;
>   $days = round($totalBGP / ((4 * 30 * 12 * 1.039 * 1.025 + 
> 80)/(365.25/12)));
>   echo "
>  Financial Status
> 
> ___
> cvs mailing list
> cvs at freenetproject.org
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvs


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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23292 - trunk/website/pages/en

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: toad
> Date: 2008-11-03 19:28:41 + (Mon, 03 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23292
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/website/pages/en/news.php
> Log:
> Update $:?\194?\163 ratio from xe.com on 03/11/08.
> I will update this when I remember, hopefully once a week.


You can fetch the ratio from Yahoo directly with something like this :

$fp =
fopen('http://fr.finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?s=USDGBP=X&f=snl1d1t1c1ohgv&e=.csv',"r");
$content = fread($fp,1024);
$fields = explode(';',$content,5);
$ratio=$fields[2];

You might want to do it in a cron task and store the value in a file, to
avoid delays.

I tried to do it myself but I'm not allowed to commit on the website
part of the SVN.


> Modified: trunk/website/pages/en/news.php
> ===
> --- trunk/website/pages/en/news.php   2008-11-03 10:02:41 UTC (rev 23291)
> +++ trunk/website/pages/en/news.php   2008-11-03 19:28:41 UTC (rev 23292)
> @@ -11,7 +11,7 @@
>   fclose($handle);
>  
>   $totalUSD = ($paypalTotal + 4820.11);
> - $totalBGP = $totalUSD * 0.61460;
> + $totalBGP = $totalUSD * 0.63354;
>   $days = round($totalBGP / ((4 * 30 * 12 * 1.039 * 1.025 + 
> 80)/(365.25/12)));
>   echo "
>  Financial Status
> 
> ___
> cvs mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvs




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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23275 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-01 12:39:53 + (Sat, 01 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23275
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
> Log:
> Add FIXME: I don't see any synchronization there, this won't work, will it?

Where ?

> -/** A refeerence to the HighLevelSimpleClient used to talk with the 
> node */
> +/** A reference to the HighLevelSimpleClient used to talk with the 
> node */

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23272 - trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-01 11:47:20 + (Sat, 01 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23272
> 
> Added:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/CaptchaFactory1.java
> Log:
> Suggestion for the first captcha implementation: 
> http://simplecaptcha.sourceforge.net/

OK for me, but you should be very carefull about the parameters you
choose for it. As you can see on the given page, some captchas are hard
to read. We don't want people to become blind. Remember they will have
to solve dozens of them before being announced...

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23270 - in trunk/plugins/WoT: . introduction

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-01 11:44:32 + (Sat, 01 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23270
> 
> Added:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/IntroductionPuzzle.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/IntroductionPuzzleFactory.java
> Log:
> Design classes for generation of introduction puzzles. Feel free to suggest 
> improvements.
> 

Originaly, I was not willing to use captchas at all. My idea was :

Publish an announcement queue (an SSK) as a custom attribute and
subscribe to it.
New identities detect that they are not announced if there are less than
X people who trust them.
They insert their URI to random identities that use a context they do use.
When an identity finds an announcement message, it tries to fetch the
identity and if it succeeds, give the identity a trust of 0.
People who choose to will see its messages and be able to give it trust,
making it seeable for the entire network.

Such a system would be hard to DoS because of the number of announcement
queues (one per running plugin), and hard to spam because only people
who chose to would see messages, until one of them decides to trust the
identity.


Anyway, I don't have much time to work on the plugin these days, so I'm
OK with your solution if you can implement it fast. We strongly need a
working WoT as fast as possible in order to make FMSplugin work.

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23275 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-01 12:39:53 + (Sat, 01 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23275
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
> Log:
> Add FIXME: I don't see any synchronization there, this won't work, will it?

Where ?

> -/** A refeerence to the HighLevelSimpleClient used to talk with the 
> node */
> +/** A reference to the HighLevelSimpleClient used to talk with the 
> node */



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23272 - trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-01 11:47:20 + (Sat, 01 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23272
> 
> Added:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/CaptchaFactory1.java
> Log:
> Suggestion for the first captcha implementation: 
> http://simplecaptcha.sourceforge.net/

OK for me, but you should be very carefull about the parameters you
choose for it. As you can see on the given page, some captchas are hard
to read. We don't want people to become blind. Remember they will have
to solve dozens of them before being announced...



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23270 - in trunk/plugins/WoT: . introduction

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-11-01 11:44:32 + (Sat, 01 Nov 2008)
> New Revision: 23270
> 
> Added:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/IntroductionPuzzle.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/introduction/IntroductionPuzzleFactory.java
> Log:
> Design classes for generation of introduction puzzles. Feel free to suggest 
> improvements.
> 

Originaly, I was not willing to use captchas at all. My idea was :

Publish an announcement queue (an SSK) as a custom attribute and
subscribe to it.
New identities detect that they are not announced if there are less than
X people who trust them.
They insert their URI to random identities that use a context they do use.
When an identity finds an announcement message, it tries to fetch the
identity and if it succeeds, give the identity a trust of 0.
People who choose to will see its messages and be able to give it trust,
making it seeable for the entire network.

Such a system would be hard to DoS because of the number of announcement
queues (one per running plugin), and hard to spam because only people
who chose to would see messages, until one of them decides to trust the
identity.


Anyway, I don't have much time to work on the plugin these days, so I'm
OK with your solution if you can implement it fast. We strongly need a
working WoT as fast as possible in order to make FMSplugin work.



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[freenet-dev] financial status

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> I'm CCing this to devl, hope you don't mind.
> 
> On Thursday 30 October 2008 05:13, you wrote:
>> Bank balance:  $4,820.11
>>
>> Paypal: $1,250.11
> 
> That's another 2.5 months at current exchange rates ... less if the UK 
> economy 
> rises / US economy falls. We should reinstate the paypal counter (including 
> the bank balance) before begging for money.
>> We need to start thinking about raising more $$$.  I can try Google
>> again, but who knows whether they'll be willing to contribute :-/  We
>> may need to rely on existing users, and the shitty economy won't help.

What about setting up a bounty system ? For now, people donate to
support the project as a whole. Maybe they would be more inclined to
donate if they knew what they donate for.

As an example, lets say that a fully-working, WoT-based, chat system
would take you 2 weeks at full time. We set a bounty on it at $1,500,
and when the amount is reached, you stop working on the node and do it.

Of course, that would slow down the work on the node but that would
raise money and give people the features they want, bringing more users,
etc...

What do you think ?

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Re: [freenet-dev] financial status

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> I'm CCing this to devl, hope you don't mind.
> 
> On Thursday 30 October 2008 05:13, you wrote:
>> Bank balance:  $4,820.11
>>
>> Paypal: $1,250.11
> 
> That's another 2.5 months at current exchange rates ... less if the UK 
> economy 
> rises / US economy falls. We should reinstate the paypal counter (including 
> the bank balance) before begging for money.
>> We need to start thinking about raising more $$$.  I can try Google
>> again, but who knows whether they'll be willing to contribute :-/  We
>> may need to rely on existing users, and the shitty economy won't help.

What about setting up a bounty system ? For now, people donate to
support the project as a whole. Maybe they would be more inclined to
donate if they knew what they donate for.

As an example, lets say that a fully-working, WoT-based, chat system
would take you 2 weeks at full time. We set a bounty on it at $1,500,
and when the amount is reached, you stop working on the node and do it.

Of course, that would slow down the work on the node but that would
raise money and give people the features they want, bringing more users,
etc...

What do you think ?



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[freenet-dev] Freenet usability review

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :

> Google: We have a pretty good ranking in any case. There's an entire industry 
> dedicated to optimising search engine rankings, we can't really afford to 
> play with that, and IIRC Google ignores tags nowadays anyway?

Right, they don't use tags.

On google.fr, with 'freenet' keywords, you've got :
1 - Wikipedia
2 - http://doc-fr.freenetproject.org
3 - http://freenetproject.org

That's pretty good.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22762 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-23 11:36:37 + (Tue, 23 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22762
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Add a TODO.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-09-23 11:10:49 UTC (rev 22761)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-09-23 11:36:37 UTC (rev 22762)
> @@ -95,7 +95,7 @@
>   else {
>   Logger.debug(this, "Loaded config");
>   config = result.next();
> - config.initDefault(false);
> + config.initDefault(false); // TODO: Is the 
> default constructor always called by db4o? If yes, this line can be removed.

AFAIK, it isn't.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22761 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-23 11:10:49 + (Tue, 23 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22761
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Change the Config class so that it does not store a reference to a db4o 
> ObjectContainer. This is not its job.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java 2008-09-23 11:10:42 UTC (rev 22760)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java 2008-09-23 11:10:49 UTC (rev 22761)
> @@ -19,19 +19,14 @@
>   */
>  public class Config {
>  
> - private ObjectContainer db;
>   private HashMap params = null;
>   
>   /**
>* 
>* @param db The database where the configuration is stored.
>*/
> - public Config(ObjectContainer db) {
> + public Config() {
>   
> - // TODO Refactor this : the database shouldn't try to store its 
> own reference
> - // The ObjectContainer should be passed to set/get/... methodes
> - 
> - this.db = db;
>   if(params == null) {
>   params = new HashMap();
>   initDefault(false);
> @@ -46,7 +41,6 @@
>*/
>   public synchronized void set(String key, String value) {
>   params.put(key, value);
> - db.store(params);
>   }

Did you test this ? Last time I tried this, db4o wasn't storing inner
complex objects and I had to manually store them.

See contexts and properties in Identity.java.
If this really isn't necessary, you can remove it from there too.

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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet usability review

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :

> Google: We have a pretty good ranking in any case. There's an entire industry 
> dedicated to optimising search engine rankings, we can't really afford to 
> play with that, and IIRC Google ignores tags nowadays anyway?

Right, they don't use tags.

On google.fr, with 'freenet' keywords, you've got :
1 - Wikipedia
2 - http://doc-fr.freenetproject.org
3 - http://freenetproject.org

That's pretty good.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22762 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-23 11:36:37 + (Tue, 23 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22762
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Add a TODO.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-09-23 11:10:49 UTC (rev 22761)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java2008-09-23 11:36:37 UTC (rev 22762)
> @@ -95,7 +95,7 @@
>   else {
>   Logger.debug(this, "Loaded config");
>   config = result.next();
> - config.initDefault(false);
> + config.initDefault(false); // TODO: Is the 
> default constructor always called by db4o? If yes, this line can be removed.

AFAIK, it isn't.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22761 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-23 11:10:49 + (Tue, 23 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22761
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Change the Config class so that it does not store a reference to a db4o 
> ObjectContainer. This is not its job.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java 2008-09-23 11:10:42 UTC (rev 22760)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/Config.java 2008-09-23 11:10:49 UTC (rev 22761)
> @@ -19,19 +19,14 @@
>   */
>  public class Config {
>  
> - private ObjectContainer db;
>   private HashMap params = null;
>   
>   /**
>* 
>* @param db The database where the configuration is stored.
>*/
> - public Config(ObjectContainer db) {
> + public Config() {
>   
> - // TODO Refactor this : the database shouldn't try to store its 
> own reference
> - // The ObjectContainer should be passed to set/get/... methodes
> - 
> - this.db = db;
>   if(params == null) {
>   params = new HashMap();
>   initDefault(false);
> @@ -46,7 +41,6 @@
>*/
>   public synchronized void set(String key, String value) {
>   params.put(key, value);
> - db.store(params);
>   }

Did you test this ? Last time I tried this, db4o wasn't storing inner
complex objects and I had to manually store them.

See contexts and properties in Identity.java.
If this really isn't necessary, you can remove it from there too.



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[freenet-dev] All mailing list messages received twice

[Julien Cornuwel]

Is this normal that I receive every messages from the mailing lists twice ?

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22663 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Sam a ?crit :
>> Well, I'm not opposed to that but I'm totally unable to use 
>> Eclipse anymore : I can edit files but I don't have any syntax help :(
>>
>> I deleted my project and did a checkout again on 
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/plugins/WoT
>> Then, Eclipse complains about files not being in the correct 
>> package :(
>>
>> Can someone help me ? I want to work on WoT this week-end, 
>> but I can't do it without a working IDE...
>>
>>
> 
> Check out the root of the Freenet project, WoT will be included.
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/freenet


Right, figured this out with toad yesterday. But thanks.

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[freenet-dev] All mailing list messages received twice

[Julien Cornuwel]

Is this normal that I receive every messages from the mailing lists twice ?



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22663 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Sam a écrit :
>> Well, I'm not opposed to that but I'm totally unable to use 
>> Eclipse anymore : I can edit files but I don't have any syntax help :(
>>
>> I deleted my project and did a checkout again on 
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/plugins/WoT
>> Then, Eclipse complains about files not being in the correct 
>> package :(
>>
>> Can someone help me ? I want to work on WoT this week-end, 
>> but I can't do it without a working IDE...
>>
>>
> 
> Check out the root of the Freenet project, WoT will be included.
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/freenet


Right, figured this out with toad yesterday. But thanks.



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22663 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :

> Question: Why are all java files of WoT in "plugins.Wot.src.plugins.Wot", 
> they should be in plugins.WoT I suppose? Please someone move them there if 
> possible, it does not compile otherwise because the "package" statement in 
> the files is wrong.


Well, I'm not opposed to that but I'm totally unable to use Eclipse
anymore : I can edit files but I don't have any syntax help :(

I deleted my project and did a checkout again on
https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/plugins/WoT
Then, Eclipse complains about files not being in the correct package :(

Can someone help me ? I want to work on WoT this week-end, but I can't
do it without a working IDE...

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22663 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

> Question: Why are all java files of WoT in "plugins.Wot.src.plugins.Wot", 
> they should be in plugins.WoT I suppose? Please someone move them there if 
> possible, it does not compile otherwise because the "package" statement in 
> the files is wrong.


Well, I'm not opposed to that but I'm totally unable to use Eclipse
anymore : I can edit files but I don't have any syntax help :(

I deleted my project and did a checkout again on
https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/plugins/WoT
Then, Eclipse complains about files not being in the correct package :(

Can someone help me ? I want to work on WoT this week-end, but I can't
do it without a working IDE...



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22688 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-18 16:11:07 + (Thu, 18 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22688
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Uncomment the use of the Config-class (I hope there was no reason why it was 
> disabled)

The reason was : it was breaking the database at every restart ;)
Maybe because it tries to store the DB reference...

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22666 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

xor at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-17 13:46:22 + (Wed, 17 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22666
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
> Log:
> Comments.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java2008-09-17 13:45:44 UTC (rev 
> 22665)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java2008-09-17 13:46:22 UTC (rev 
> 22666)
> @@ -90,18 +90,22 @@
>   requests.remove(state); 
>   }
>  
> + /* TODO: comment this function: who calls it and when? */
>   public void onFailure(InsertException e, BaseClientPutter state) {
>   
>   }

I'd be glad to do it, but the fact is I don't know, and have been too
lazy to search ;) I suppose these callbacks must be used for different
types of requests...

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22688 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-18 16:11:07 + (Thu, 18 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22688
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Uncomment the use of the Config-class (I hope there was no reason why it was 
> disabled)

The reason was : it was breaking the database at every restart ;)
Maybe because it tries to store the DB reference...



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22666 - trunk/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: xor
> Date: 2008-09-17 13:46:22 + (Wed, 17 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22666
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
> Log:
> Comments.
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java
> ===
> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java2008-09-17 13:45:44 UTC (rev 
> 22665)
> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/IdentityFetcher.java2008-09-17 13:46:22 UTC (rev 
> 22666)
> @@ -90,18 +90,22 @@
>   requests.remove(state); 
>   }
>  
> + /* TODO: comment this function: who calls it and when? */
>   public void onFailure(InsertException e, BaseClientPutter state) {
>   
>   }

I'd be glad to do it, but the fact is I don't know, and have been too
lazy to search ;) I suppose these callbacks must be used for different
types of requests...



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[freenet-dev] usability strategy : plugins and a revamped front page

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :

>> | - Showing some of the alerts' detail with the alerts box may make sense,
>> | modulo accessibility (font scaling) concerns.
>> Maybe I should display a tooltip when the cursor is over the bar, with
>> all infos in it ?
> 
> Possibly... don't tooltips get truncated? Otherwise get the user to click on 
> it.

What about doing it with CSS ? I suggested Dieppe to use the right side
to display context documentation when the user hovers over some
important words. Maybe alerts details can be displayed the same way ?

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Re: [freenet-dev] usability strategy : plugins and a revamped front page

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :

>> | - Showing some of the alerts' detail with the alerts box may make sense,
>> | modulo accessibility (font scaling) concerns.
>> Maybe I should display a tooltip when the cursor is over the bar, with
>> all infos in it ?
> 
> Possibly... don't tooltips get truncated? Otherwise get the user to click on 
> it.

What about doing it with CSS ? I suggested Dieppe to use the right side
to display context documentation when the user hovers over some
important words. Maybe alerts details can be displayed the same way ?



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[freenet-dev] Fresh installation on Ubuntu 8.04.1

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :

>> - Firefox has not been spawned at the end of the installer.
> 
> Eeek. Luke771's testing showed this only happened if you disable creating 
> icons; for you it happens even with icon creation enabled?

Yep. Both checkboxes are checked by default and I didn't touch them.

>> - The menu shortcuts were not there after the install completed. They
>> only became visible after I disconnected and re-openned a session.
> 
> Not our problem. The desktop wasn't refreshed.

Well, it certainly is disturbing for a user to install an app and being
unable to use it immediately. Especially when the desktop-refresh
problem only happens with this one.

>> Well, the profile works fine if I select it manually. But the browser
>> wasn't openned.
> 
> Curious, it's not compatible with FF3 (after alpha 1).

It works fine here (except the theme), with FF 3.0.1.

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[freenet-dev] Fresh installation on Ubuntu 8.04.1

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Thursday 11 September 2008 11:25, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As I just reinstalled my system on a new hard drive, I decided to do a
>> fresh install of Freenet for my dev node. I encountered the following
>> problems :
>>
>> - Firefox didn't start up at the end of the installation.
> 
> You wiped the machine, including wiping your home directory, installed a 
> completely fresh Ubuntu, then installed the node, correct? Through JWS or 
> through wget'ing and then java -jar?

I was using the JWS.

> Nextgens recently fixed a bug similar to this which was causing firefox 3 to 
> not start on debian lenny... Can you please create a new user with GUI access 
> (but with a clean home directory), and confirm that this bug still exists?

Yes it does. I just did a fresh install (with new_installer.jar) on a
new user account. Here is the result :
- Firefox has not been spawned at the end of the installer.
- The menu shortcuts were not there after the install completed. They
only became visible after I disconnected and re-openned a session.
- The Firefox profile was created and I've been able to use it.
- The wizard came back to the first question twice, before I managed to
complete it.

>> - During the wizard, I often get the CSS instead of the page :
>>
>> /* Bookmarks & bookmark editor */
>> @import url(/static/bookmark.css);
>> ...
>>
>> - I Had to click refresh several times to finally get the page.
>> - Sometimes I don't have the CSS and Freenet's homepage is displayed as
>> pure HTML.
> 
> Fixed in trunk. I'm going to try to release 1163 soon to fix it.

This problem didn't happen this time.

>> I'm guessing the firefox profile has problems on Ubuntu 8.04, which uses
>> Firefox 3. It doesn't happen if I use my normal FF profile.
> 
> Known problem yes, it won't use the profile. We are considering replacing the 
> profile with one that is compatible with FF3. But it should open the browser 
> window...

Well, the profile works fine if I select it manually. But the browser
wasn't openned.

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Re: [freenet-dev] Fresh installation on Ubuntu 8.04.1

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :

>> - Firefox has not been spawned at the end of the installer.
> 
> Eeek. Luke771's testing showed this only happened if you disable creating 
> icons; for you it happens even with icon creation enabled?

Yep. Both checkboxes are checked by default and I didn't touch them.

>> - The menu shortcuts were not there after the install completed. They
>> only became visible after I disconnected and re-openned a session.
> 
> Not our problem. The desktop wasn't refreshed.

Well, it certainly is disturbing for a user to install an app and being
unable to use it immediately. Especially when the desktop-refresh
problem only happens with this one.

>> Well, the profile works fine if I select it manually. But the browser
>> wasn't openned.
> 
> Curious, it's not compatible with FF3 (after alpha 1).

It works fine here (except the theme), with FF 3.0.1.



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[freenet-dev] Fresh installation on Ubuntu 8.04.1

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi,

As I just reinstalled my system on a new hard drive, I decided to do a
fresh install of Freenet for my dev node. I encountered the following
problems :

- Firefox didn't start up at the end of the installation.
- During the wizard, I often get the CSS instead of the page :

/* Bookmarks & bookmark editor */
@import url(/static/bookmark.css);
...

- I Had to click refresh several times to finally get the page.
- Sometimes I don't have the CSS and Freenet's homepage is displayed as
pure HTML.


I'm guessing the firefox profile has problems on Ubuntu 8.04, which uses
Firefox 3. It doesn't happen if I use my normal FF profile.

Regards

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22574 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Wednesday 10 September 2008 14:12, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
>>> Have you tried storing each sub-object, and fetching them? On what
>>> object does it choke?
>> As you will see, I commented most of the code in WoT class, in order to
>> debug this, with no success so far.
>>
>> I've tried with a Config object and an Identity object with the same
>> result. Config has a reference to db, so saces suggested this might be
>> the problem. But Identity just has an Arraylist and an Hashmap.
>>
>>> The web of trust plugin is critical for a wide range of UI changes that
>>> we're going to need in the near future. I will attempt to debug this
>>> later today. Right now I have some hardware issues to deal with. Thanks.
>> Glad to hear it :-) I'm currently re-installing my system on a brand new
>> hard drive so I might not be able to work on it until tonight.
> 
> It turns out you need to create an index on the value you're querying for. 
> See 
> the committed changes.

Huh ? Never read that in TFM... Thanks for your time !

>> PS : Once the database problem is solved, there is another one that
>> would need attention from an experimented freenet dev :
>> https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2561
> 
> Try closing the OutputStream before doing the insert.

I'll try that.


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Re: [freenet-dev] Fresh installation on Ubuntu 8.04.1

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Thursday 11 September 2008 11:25, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As I just reinstalled my system on a new hard drive, I decided to do a
>> fresh install of Freenet for my dev node. I encountered the following
>> problems :
>>
>> - Firefox didn't start up at the end of the installation.
> 
> You wiped the machine, including wiping your home directory, installed a 
> completely fresh Ubuntu, then installed the node, correct? Through JWS or 
> through wget'ing and then java -jar?

I was using the JWS.

> Nextgens recently fixed a bug similar to this which was causing firefox 3 to 
> not start on debian lenny... Can you please create a new user with GUI access 
> (but with a clean home directory), and confirm that this bug still exists?

Yes it does. I just did a fresh install (with new_installer.jar) on a
new user account. Here is the result :
- Firefox has not been spawned at the end of the installer.
- The menu shortcuts were not there after the install completed. They
only became visible after I disconnected and re-openned a session.
- The Firefox profile was created and I've been able to use it.
- The wizard came back to the first question twice, before I managed to
complete it.

>> - During the wizard, I often get the CSS instead of the page :
>>
>> /* Bookmarks & bookmark editor */
>> @import url(/static/bookmark.css);
>> ...
>>
>> - I Had to click refresh several times to finally get the page.
>> - Sometimes I don't have the CSS and Freenet's homepage is displayed as
>> pure HTML.
> 
> Fixed in trunk. I'm going to try to release 1163 soon to fix it.

This problem didn't happen this time.

>> I'm guessing the firefox profile has problems on Ubuntu 8.04, which uses
>> Firefox 3. It doesn't happen if I use my normal FF profile.
> 
> Known problem yes, it won't use the profile. We are considering replacing the 
> profile with one that is compatible with FF3. But it should open the browser 
> window...

Well, the profile works fine if I select it manually. But the browser
wasn't openned.



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[freenet-dev] Fresh installation on Ubuntu 8.04.1

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi,

As I just reinstalled my system on a new hard drive, I decided to do a
fresh install of Freenet for my dev node. I encountered the following
problems :

- Firefox didn't start up at the end of the installation.
- During the wizard, I often get the CSS instead of the page :

/* Bookmarks & bookmark editor */
@import url(/static/bookmark.css);
...

- I Had to click refresh several times to finally get the page.
- Sometimes I don't have the CSS and Freenet's homepage is displayed as
pure HTML.


I'm guessing the firefox profile has problems on Ubuntu 8.04, which uses
Firefox 3. It doesn't happen if I use my normal FF profile.

Regards



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22574 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Wednesday 10 September 2008 14:12, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a écrit :
>>> Have you tried storing each sub-object, and fetching them? On what
>>> object does it choke?
>> As you will see, I commented most of the code in WoT class, in order to
>> debug this, with no success so far.
>>
>> I've tried with a Config object and an Identity object with the same
>> result. Config has a reference to db, so saces suggested this might be
>> the problem. But Identity just has an Arraylist and an Hashmap.
>>
>>> The web of trust plugin is critical for a wide range of UI changes that
>>> we're going to need in the near future. I will attempt to debug this
>>> later today. Right now I have some hardware issues to deal with. Thanks.
>> Glad to hear it :-) I'm currently re-installing my system on a brand new
>> hard drive so I might not be able to work on it until tonight.
> 
> It turns out you need to create an index on the value you're querying for. 
> See 
> the committed changes.

Huh ? Never read that in TFM... Thanks for your time !

>> PS : Once the database problem is solved, there is another one that
>> would need attention from an experimented freenet dev :
>> https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2561
> 
> Try closing the OutputStream before doing the insert.

I'll try that.




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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22574 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> 
> Have you tried storing each sub-object, and fetching them? On what
> object does it choke?

As you will see, I commented most of the code in WoT class, in order to
debug this, with no success so far.

I've tried with a Config object and an Identity object with the same
result. Config has a reference to db, so saces suggested this might be
the problem. But Identity just has an Arraylist and an Hashmap.

> The web of trust plugin is critical for a wide range of UI changes that
> we're going to need in the near future. I will attempt to debug this
> later today. Right now I have some hardware issues to deal with. Thanks.

Glad to hear it :-) I'm currently re-installing my system on a brand new
hard drive so I might not be able to work on it until tonight.


PS : Once the database problem is solved, there is another one that
would need attention from an experimented freenet dev :
https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2561

Saces introduced that code to avoid creating temp files on disk for
identity insertion, which is good. But I don't understand how it works
and therefore, can't debug it.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=U3Ei
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22574 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> 
> Have you tried storing each sub-object, and fetching them? On what
> object does it choke?

As you will see, I commented most of the code in WoT class, in order to
debug this, with no success so far.

I've tried with a Config object and an Identity object with the same
result. Config has a reference to db, so saces suggested this might be
the problem. But Identity just has an Arraylist and an Hashmap.

> The web of trust plugin is critical for a wide range of UI changes that
> we're going to need in the near future. I will attempt to debug this
> later today. Right now I have some hardware issues to deal with. Thanks.

Glad to hear it :-) I'm currently re-installing my system on a brand new
hard drive so I might not be able to work on it until tonight.


PS : Once the database problem is solved, there is another one that
would need attention from an experimented freenet dev :
https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2561

Saces introduced that code to avoid creating temp files on disk for
identity insertion, which is good. But I don't understand how it works
and therefore, can't debug it.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIx8fYmY5qNqKdYw0RApRhAKDAfCyF4XsGQJwBbKc2peFEZTAALQCfWGZM
yYwLh/mPNho8201Ww3uXV3U=
=U3Ei
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22574 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

batosai at freenetproject.org a ?crit :
> Author: batosai
> Date: 2008-09-09 11:06:42 + (Tue, 09 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22574
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Disabled everything in order to hunt bug #2562
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/WoT.java

Basically, I just left this in the code :

public void runPlugin(PluginRespirator pr) {
Logger.debug(this, "Start");
db = Db4o.openFile("WoT.db4o");
try {   
ObjectSet result = db.queryByExample(Config.class);
if(result.size() == 0) {
Logger.debug(this, "Created new config");
config = new Config(db);
db.store(config);
}
else {
Logger.debug(this, "Loaded config");
config = result.next();
config.initDefault(false);
}
}
catch(Exception e) {
Logger.error(this, e.getMessage(), e);
}
}

public void terminate() {
Logger.debug(this, "Cleanly closing the database");
db.commit();
db.close();
}


To reproduce the problem, you just have to load the plugin with an empty
database and click restart. Here's what I have in my logfile :

sept. 09, 2008 11:03:43:802 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter at 1ccd159(40), DEBUG): Start
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:43:938 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter at 1ccd159(40), DEBUG):
Created new config
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:428 (plugins.WoT.WoT, HTTP socket
handler at 23743079(16), DEBUG): Cleanly closing the database
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:471 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter at 16b8ebc(37), DEBUG): Start
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:489 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter at 16b8ebc(37), DEBUG):
Loaded config
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:489 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter at 16b8ebc(37), ERROR):
com.db4o.reflect.generic.GenericObject cannot be cast to plugins.WoT.Config
java.lang.ClassCastException: com.db4o.reflect.generic.GenericObject
cannot be cast to plugins.WoT.Config
at plugins.WoT.WoT.runPlugin(WoT.java:86)
at
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter.run(PluginHandler.java:66)
at freenet.support.PooledExecutor$MyThread.run(PooledExecutor.java:190)
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:53:836 (plugins.WoT.WoT, HTTP socket
handler at 22041176(25), DEBUG): Cleanly closing the database



I tried SODA requests with the same result. I must be missing something
totally stupid... Could you enlighten me please ?

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22574 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> Author: batosai
> Date: 2008-09-09 11:06:42 + (Tue, 09 Sep 2008)
> New Revision: 22574
> 
> Modified:
>trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/WoT.java
> Log:
> Disabled everything in order to hunt bug #2562
> 
> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/WoT.java

Basically, I just left this in the code :

public void runPlugin(PluginRespirator pr) {
Logger.debug(this, "Start");
db = Db4o.openFile("WoT.db4o");
try {   
ObjectSet result = db.queryByExample(Config.class);
if(result.size() == 0) {
Logger.debug(this, "Created new config");
config = new Config(db);
db.store(config);
}
else {
Logger.debug(this, "Loaded config");
config = result.next();
config.initDefault(false);
}
}
catch(Exception e) {
Logger.error(this, e.getMessage(), e);
}
}

public void terminate() {
Logger.debug(this, "Cleanly closing the database");
db.commit();
db.close();
}


To reproduce the problem, you just have to load the plugin with an empty
database and click restart. Here's what I have in my logfile :

sept. 09, 2008 11:03:43:802 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
[EMAIL PROTECTED](40), DEBUG): Start
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:43:938 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
[EMAIL PROTECTED](40), DEBUG):
Created new config
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:428 (plugins.WoT.WoT, HTTP socket
[EMAIL PROTECTED](16), DEBUG): Cleanly closing the database
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:471 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
[EMAIL PROTECTED](37), DEBUG): Start
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:489 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
[EMAIL PROTECTED](37), DEBUG):
Loaded config
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:49:489 (plugins.WoT.WoT, Scheduled job:
[EMAIL PROTECTED](37), ERROR):
com.db4o.reflect.generic.GenericObject cannot be cast to plugins.WoT.Config
java.lang.ClassCastException: com.db4o.reflect.generic.GenericObject
cannot be cast to plugins.WoT.Config
at plugins.WoT.WoT.runPlugin(WoT.java:86)
at
freenet.pluginmanager.PluginHandler$PluginStarter.run(PluginHandler.java:66)
at freenet.support.PooledExecutor$MyThread.run(PooledExecutor.java:190)
sept. 09, 2008 11:03:53:836 (plugins.WoT.WoT, HTTP socket
[EMAIL PROTECTED](25), DEBUG): Cleanly closing the database



I tried SODA requests with the same result. I must be missing something
totally stupid... Could you enlighten me please ?



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22526 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Ian Clarke a ?crit :
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 8:51 AM,   wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-07 13:51:05 + (Sun, 07 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22526
>>
>> Modified:
>>   trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java
>> Log:
>> Force a garbage collection before bringing db4o up.
> 
> Is there a good reason for this?  Most of what I read about forcing a
> GC suggests that it normally does more harm than good, and is best
> avoided.

The reason is that my first unit tests were telling me everything was
OK, whereas it was obvioulsy not. I was simply closing the database and
re-opening it just after.

I then switched to two-time tests : First pass, I created/stored
objects. Second pass, I fetched/checked them. This worked fine and
allowed me to fix the problem.

But then, WoT became an official plugin and I was told my tests should
not leave traces after being run. So I switched back to one-time tests.
Garbage collection is just a try to reproduce a real restart of the
database.

If this is a problem, I can remove it. After all, the problem is solved
and I know how to avoid it : use SODA requests on anything that isn't
trivial.

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22526 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Ian Clarke a écrit :
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 8:51 AM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-07 13:51:05 + (Sun, 07 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22526
>>
>> Modified:
>>   trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java
>> Log:
>> Force a garbage collection before bringing db4o up.
> 
> Is there a good reason for this?  Most of what I read about forcing a
> GC suggests that it normally does more harm than good, and is best
> avoided.

The reason is that my first unit tests were telling me everything was
OK, whereas it was obvioulsy not. I was simply closing the database and
re-opening it just after.

I then switched to two-time tests : First pass, I created/stored
objects. Second pass, I fetched/checked them. This worked fine and
allowed me to fix the problem.

But then, WoT became an official plugin and I was told my tests should
not leave traces after being run. So I switched back to one-time tests.
Garbage collection is just a try to reproduce a real restart of the
database.

If this is a problem, I can remove it. After all, the problem is solved
and I know how to avoid it : use SODA requests on anything that isn't
trivial.



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22526 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Daniel Cheng a ?crit :
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 9:51 PM,   wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-07 13:51:05 + (Sun, 07 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22526
>>
>> Modified:
>>   trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java
>> Log:
>> Force a garbage collection before bringing db4o up.
>>
>> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java
>> ===
>> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java 2008-09-07 13:47:24 
>> UTC (rev 22525)
>> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java 2008-09-07 13:51:05 
>> UTC (rev 22526)
>> @@ -79,7 +79,7 @@
>>
>>public void testPersistence() throws MalformedURLException, 
>> UnknownIdentityException, DuplicateIdentityException {
>>db.close();
>> -   // TODO Force a garbage collection/finalization
>> +   System.gc();
> 
> try System.runFinalization() and some sleep too.
> the spec just say it try to gc/finalize with "best effort".
> (which is a no-op if you run with java -XX:+CMSIncrementalMode )

Just commited your suggestion. Do you think 2 seconds are enough ?

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22526 - trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Daniel Cheng a écrit :
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 9:51 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-07 13:51:05 + (Sun, 07 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22526
>>
>> Modified:
>>   trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java
>> Log:
>> Force a garbage collection before bringing db4o up.
>>
>> Modified: trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java
>> ===
>> --- trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java 2008-09-07 13:47:24 
>> UTC (rev 22525)
>> +++ trunk/plugins/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/IdentityTest.java 2008-09-07 13:51:05 
>> UTC (rev 22526)
>> @@ -79,7 +79,7 @@
>>
>>public void testPersistence() throws MalformedURLException, 
>> UnknownIdentityException, DuplicateIdentityException {
>>db.close();
>> -   // TODO Force a garbage collection/finalization
>> +   System.gc();
> 
> try System.runFinalization() and some sleep too.
> the spec just say it try to gc/finalize with "best effort".
> (which is a no-op if you run with java -XX:+CMSIncrementalMode )

Just commited your suggestion. Do you think 2 seconds are enough ?



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22429 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Saturday 06 September 2008 09:55, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
>>> On Thursday 04 September 2008 18:50, batosai at freenetproject.org wrote:
>>>> Author: batosai
>>>> Date: 2008-09-04 17:50:39 + (Thu, 04 Sep 2008)
>>>> New Revision: 22429
>>>>
>>>> Modified:
>>>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/TrustTest.java
>>>> Log:
>>>> Warn about the need to run this test twice.
>>> Can't you close the database and then open a new one?
>> It's what I did first, but the test told me it was OK, whereas it was
>> obviously not in normal operations... 
> 
> Even if you forced a garbage collection/finalization?

No I didn't try that. I can try it if you explain me how to do it.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22409 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Saturday 06 September 2008 10:13, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
>>> Querying by a ByteArrayWrapper works for you? Really?
>> Well, it seems so. But I didn't do the two-times test though...
>> I made this because getRoutingKey() returns a byte[] and that it is hard
>> to query on this.
> 
> As sdiz said, db4o is unable to create an index on it. So IMHO you should 
> query on a string. This could be Base64.encode(getRoutingKey()) or could be 
> chopped from the FreenetURI (which you can also keep; duplication isn't 
> *that* big a deal) ...

That's what I was doing before Nextgen$ pointed this to me :-(

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22429 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Saturday 06 September 2008 09:55, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a écrit :
>>> On Thursday 04 September 2008 18:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>> Author: batosai
>>>> Date: 2008-09-04 17:50:39 + (Thu, 04 Sep 2008)
>>>> New Revision: 22429
>>>>
>>>> Modified:
>>>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/TrustTest.java
>>>> Log:
>>>> Warn about the need to run this test twice.
>>> Can't you close the database and then open a new one?
>> It's what I did first, but the test told me it was OK, whereas it was
>> obviously not in normal operations... 
> 
> Even if you forced a garbage collection/finalization?

No I didn't try that. I can try it if you explain me how to do it.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22409 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Saturday 06 September 2008 10:13, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a écrit :
>>> Querying by a ByteArrayWrapper works for you? Really?
>> Well, it seems so. But I didn't do the two-times test though...
>> I made this because getRoutingKey() returns a byte[] and that it is hard
>> to query on this.
> 
> As sdiz said, db4o is unable to create an index on it. So IMHO you should 
> query on a string. This could be Base64.encode(getRoutingKey()) or could be 
> chopped from the FreenetURI (which you can also keep; duplication isn't 
> *that* big a deal) ...

That's what I was doing before Nextgen$ pointed this to me :-(



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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22409 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> Querying by a ByteArrayWrapper works for you? Really?

Well, it seems so. But I didn't do the two-times test though...
I made this because getRoutingKey() returns a byte[] and that it is hard
to query on this.

> On Thursday 04 September 2008 15:38, batosai at freenetproject.org wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-04 14:38:32 + (Thu, 04 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22409
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/Identity.java
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/OwnIdentity.java
>> Log:
>> Switched to ByteArrayWrapper as suggested by Nextgens.

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[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22429 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Thursday 04 September 2008 18:50, batosai at freenetproject.org wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-04 17:50:39 + (Thu, 04 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22429
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/TrustTest.java
>> Log:
>> Warn about the need to run this test twice.
> 
> Can't you close the database and then open a new one?

It's what I did first, but the test told me it was OK, whereas it was
obviously not in normal operations... I switched to that two-times test
and then errors appeared. SODA requests solved it, so I keep the test as is.


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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22409 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> Querying by a ByteArrayWrapper works for you? Really?

Well, it seems so. But I didn't do the two-times test though...
I made this because getRoutingKey() returns a byte[] and that it is hard
to query on this.

> On Thursday 04 September 2008 15:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-04 14:38:32 + (Thu, 04 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22409
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/Identity.java
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/OwnIdentity.java
>> Log:
>> Switched to ByteArrayWrapper as suggested by Nextgens.



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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22429 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Thursday 04 September 2008 18:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-09-04 17:50:39 + (Thu, 04 Sep 2008)
>> New Revision: 22429
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/TrustTest.java
>> Log:
>> Warn about the need to run this test twice.
> 
> Can't you close the database and then open a new one?

It's what I did first, but the test told me it was OK, whereas it was
obviously not in normal operations... I switched to that two-times test
and then errors appeared. SODA requests solved it, so I keep the test as is.




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[freenet-dev] Freenet uninstallation survey results so-far

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Thursday 04 September 2008 09:21, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
>>
>>>> There is a French user (sich) that is working on an insert-on-demand
>>>> tool that can achieve that. It works on top of the WoTplugin. For now,
>>>> it is a standalone app, but we agreed on rewriting it as a Freenet
>>>> plugin as soon as it is proven to work.
>>> I'm not of the school that says that insert on demand is essential. But 
> it's 
>>> certainly a useful feature. He will have to be careful to not compromise 
> the 
>>> user's security unless the user *wants* his/her security to be 
> compromised. 
>>> In particular, it's very tempting to start to download it as soon as the 
> user 
>>> starts to upload it, but there are some serious security issues with this 
>>> which is why Freenet doesn't make it especially easy.
>> Right. We should net the inserter decide if he wants to give the key at
>> the beginning of the insert or at the end. 
> 
> We do, there is an EarlyEncode option in FCP.

Right, I was thinking about the filesharing app that should offer this
choice.

>> Anyway, he should tell that 
>> the insert is in progress so requesters would know that it is worth waiting.
> 
> And this notification would be trusted to the degree that the identity is 
> trusted.

Exactly.

>>>> Such a tool could address that problem : users who type something in the
>>>> appropriate searchbox will actually get a list of what is available. Of
>>>> course, files would have to be inserted and we need to warn them that
>>>> the download can take a long time...
>>> Even if it's not insert on demand, downloads can and will take a long 
> time. Is 
>>> reliability higher with insert on demand or without it?
>> Well if the WoT does his job correctly, we could filter results to only
>> display files that belong to identities that are actually here.
> 
> Defined as "posted recently and trust over X", presumably?

Something like that. Forcing insert of identities once a week (or more)
is a good way to know which identities are 'alive' and which are not.

But that is not enough if we want it to work right out of the box. For a
beginner, all identities will look recent. Maybe I should add the date
of insert in the identity.xml file ?

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[freenet-dev] Freenet uninstallation survey results so-far

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :

>> There is a French user (sich) that is working on an insert-on-demand
>> tool that can achieve that. It works on top of the WoTplugin. For now,
>> it is a standalone app, but we agreed on rewriting it as a Freenet
>> plugin as soon as it is proven to work.
> 
> I'm not of the school that says that insert on demand is essential. But it's 
> certainly a useful feature. He will have to be careful to not compromise the 
> user's security unless the user *wants* his/her security to be compromised. 
> In particular, it's very tempting to start to download it as soon as the user 
> starts to upload it, but there are some serious security issues with this 
> which is why Freenet doesn't make it especially easy.

Right. We should net the inserter decide if he wants to give the key at
the beginning of the insert or at the end. Anyway, he should tell that
the insert is in progress so requesters would know that it is worth waiting.

>> Such a tool could address that problem : users who type something in the
>> appropriate searchbox will actually get a list of what is available. Of
>> course, files would have to be inserted and we need to warn them that
>> the download can take a long time...
> 
> Even if it's not insert on demand, downloads can and will take a long time. 
> Is 
> reliability higher with insert on demand or without it?

Well if the WoT does his job correctly, we could filter results to only
display files that belong to identities that are actually here.

>>> a) Make everything important part of fproxy. In particular, FMS, Thaw, and 
>>> jSite/Thingamablog (if users want to contribute content, it's especially 
>>> important to keep them).
>> My preference goes to this one. I'm not saying all client apps should
>> disappear, but IMHO basic functionnalities (chat, search, filesharing,
>> blogging) should be accessible though Fproxy, right after Freenet is
>> installed.
> 
> This is a very attractive option in terms of solving the current complaints 
> yeah.



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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet uninstallation survey results so-far

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Thursday 04 September 2008 09:21, Julien Cornuwel wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland a écrit :
>>
>>>> There is a French user (sich) that is working on an insert-on-demand
>>>> tool that can achieve that. It works on top of the WoTplugin. For now,
>>>> it is a standalone app, but we agreed on rewriting it as a Freenet
>>>> plugin as soon as it is proven to work.
>>> I'm not of the school that says that insert on demand is essential. But 
> it's 
>>> certainly a useful feature. He will have to be careful to not compromise 
> the 
>>> user's security unless the user *wants* his/her security to be 
> compromised. 
>>> In particular, it's very tempting to start to download it as soon as the 
> user 
>>> starts to upload it, but there are some serious security issues with this 
>>> which is why Freenet doesn't make it especially easy.
>> Right. We should net the inserter decide if he wants to give the key at
>> the beginning of the insert or at the end. 
> 
> We do, there is an EarlyEncode option in FCP.

Right, I was thinking about the filesharing app that should offer this
choice.

>> Anyway, he should tell that 
>> the insert is in progress so requesters would know that it is worth waiting.
> 
> And this notification would be trusted to the degree that the identity is 
> trusted.

Exactly.

>>>> Such a tool could address that problem : users who type something in the
>>>> appropriate searchbox will actually get a list of what is available. Of
>>>> course, files would have to be inserted and we need to warn them that
>>>> the download can take a long time...
>>> Even if it's not insert on demand, downloads can and will take a long 
> time. Is 
>>> reliability higher with insert on demand or without it?
>> Well if the WoT does his job correctly, we could filter results to only
>> display files that belong to identities that are actually here.
> 
> Defined as "posted recently and trust over X", presumably?

Something like that. Forcing insert of identities once a week (or more)
is a good way to know which identities are 'alive' and which are not.

But that is not enough if we want it to work right out of the box. For a
beginner, all identities will look recent. Maybe I should add the date
of insert in the identity.xml file ?



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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet uninstallation survey results so-far

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :

>> There is a French user (sich) that is working on an insert-on-demand
>> tool that can achieve that. It works on top of the WoTplugin. For now,
>> it is a standalone app, but we agreed on rewriting it as a Freenet
>> plugin as soon as it is proven to work.
> 
> I'm not of the school that says that insert on demand is essential. But it's 
> certainly a useful feature. He will have to be careful to not compromise the 
> user's security unless the user *wants* his/her security to be compromised. 
> In particular, it's very tempting to start to download it as soon as the user 
> starts to upload it, but there are some serious security issues with this 
> which is why Freenet doesn't make it especially easy.

Right. We should net the inserter decide if he wants to give the key at
the beginning of the insert or at the end. Anyway, he should tell that
the insert is in progress so requesters would know that it is worth waiting.

>> Such a tool could address that problem : users who type something in the
>> appropriate searchbox will actually get a list of what is available. Of
>> course, files would have to be inserted and we need to warn them that
>> the download can take a long time...
> 
> Even if it's not insert on demand, downloads can and will take a long time. 
> Is 
> reliability higher with insert on demand or without it?

Well if the WoT does his job correctly, we could filter results to only
display files that belong to identities that are actually here.

>>> a) Make everything important part of fproxy. In particular, FMS, Thaw, and 
>>> jSite/Thingamablog (if users want to contribute content, it's especially 
>>> important to keep them).
>> My preference goes to this one. I'm not saying all client apps should
>> disappear, but IMHO basic functionnalities (chat, search, filesharing,
>> blogging) should be accessible though Fproxy, right after Freenet is
>> installed.
> 
> This is a very attractive option in terms of solving the current complaints 
> yeah.





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[freenet-dev] Freenet uninstallation survey results so-far

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Tuesday 02 September 2008 01:09, Ian Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Florent Daigni?re
>>  wrote:
>>> The main complain is that freenet is slow... do we know how to address
>>> that?
>> Not according to the current survey results.  Only 12% complained that
>> it takes too long to retrieve content, as compared to 29% who claimed
>> that they couldn't get it running.
>>
>> This argues strongly for more attention to be devoted to the
>> installer, and to bootstrapping.
>>
>>> I don't think that putting a search box in front will help matters;
>>> Let's assume the nodes bootstrap in seconds instead of minutes:
>>> current indexes aren't maintained and if they were they would be *huge*. 
> We
>>> can't possibly expect the first search to be answered in seconds if it
>>> involves downloading the huge index! Of course we could bundle the
>>> indexes too... but if we go down that road it's not freenet anymore.
>> A good point.  I think my goal was to provide an interface that users
>> would intuitively understand, a search engine is an example of such a
>> thing.
>>
>> Perhaps the index could be downloaded in stages - a small initial file
>> for the most popular stuff - to get quick responses - and then
>> progressively larger files with additional info.
>>
>> Of course, what we really want is proper support for search in the
>> protocol, but that is a tall order.

Maybe informing the user could be a first step. If he only downloaded a
small index, tell him. A warning like : "you only downloaded a small
index, you will only be able to search XX freesites. Index download is
still in progress and the number of visible sites will increase soon."

Freenet can't be as fast as Google, but if we tell the user, he would
know, and choose to wait or not, instead of thinking it simply doesn't work.

> IMHO users expectations and what we can realistically provide at this point 
> (especially through fproxy) are a *LONG* way apart. There are numerous 
> complaints on the write-in parts of the survey about either the lack of a 
> GUI, or the lack of a search engine, or people saying they've tried other P2P 
> etc etc. What they mean is they want us to reimplement Napster, not Google! 
> If we put XMLLibrarian on the home page, it will only search the freesite 
> web. It will not search Thaw indexes, it will not search FMS, it will not ask 
> people to insert files which aren't currently available (often a good 
> tactic), and to top it all off it will probably take around a minute to 
> return no results because 1) the network is small, 2) most of 
> the "filesharing" content isn't visible from the freesite part of the 
> network, and 3) users don't know this and treat it as a classic p2p search 
> box.

There is a French user (sich) that is working on an insert-on-demand
tool that can achieve that. It works on top of the WoTplugin. For now,
it is a standalone app, but we agreed on rewriting it as a Freenet
plugin as soon as it is proven to work.

Such a tool could address that problem : users who type something in the
appropriate searchbox will actually get a list of what is available. Of
course, files would have to be inserted and we need to warn them that
the download can take a long time...

> This is the fundamental problem: Freenet simply doesn't do what most users 
> want, when they figure that out they will uninstall it. So I don't think it 
> is likely that minor usability improvements will bring us dramatically more 
> users.
> 
> We do need to know whether this is the problem or whether we really do have 
> 30% of our would-be users having error 1067 etc etc. IMHO that is very 
> unlikely, and in terms of write-ins, there are more complaints about no GUI 
> or it being slow than about specific install failures that we know about.
> 
> We are left with the following strategies:
> 
> 1. Concentrate on what we're good at, and dramatically improve performance, 
> both in terms of speed and in terms of reducing system cost, so that those 
> users who are interested in what we *can* do will stick around.
> 2. Make those things that we're reasonable at but aren't part of fproxy more 
> visible and easier to use. Three sub-options:
> a) Make everything important part of fproxy. In particular, FMS, Thaw, and 
> jSite/Thingamablog (if users want to contribute content, it's especially 
> important to keep them).

My preference goes to this one. I'm not saying all client apps should
disappear, but IMHO basic functionnalities (chat, search, filesharing,
blogging) should be accessible though Fproxy, right after Freenet is
installed.

> b) Make it *really* easy to launch the external GUI Freenet apps. I'm not 
> sure 
> how, that's the problem: even if we implement a quicklaunch rabbit icon, 
> there are so many on a typical XP desktop now that XP hides them and users 
> ignore them. Which brings us to the third option...
> c) Build what the users want - an all singing all dancing wi

Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet uninstallation survey results so-far

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Tuesday 02 September 2008 01:09, Ian Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Florent Daignière
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> The main complain is that freenet is slow... do we know how to address
>>> that?
>> Not according to the current survey results.  Only 12% complained that
>> it takes too long to retrieve content, as compared to 29% who claimed
>> that they couldn't get it running.
>>
>> This argues strongly for more attention to be devoted to the
>> installer, and to bootstrapping.
>>
>>> I don't think that putting a search box in front will help matters;
>>> Let's assume the nodes bootstrap in seconds instead of minutes:
>>> current indexes aren't maintained and if they were they would be *huge*. 
> We
>>> can't possibly expect the first search to be answered in seconds if it
>>> involves downloading the huge index! Of course we could bundle the
>>> indexes too... but if we go down that road it's not freenet anymore.
>> A good point.  I think my goal was to provide an interface that users
>> would intuitively understand, a search engine is an example of such a
>> thing.
>>
>> Perhaps the index could be downloaded in stages - a small initial file
>> for the most popular stuff - to get quick responses - and then
>> progressively larger files with additional info.
>>
>> Of course, what we really want is proper support for search in the
>> protocol, but that is a tall order.

Maybe informing the user could be a first step. If he only downloaded a
small index, tell him. A warning like : "you only downloaded a small
index, you will only be able to search XX freesites. Index download is
still in progress and the number of visible sites will increase soon."

Freenet can't be as fast as Google, but if we tell the user, he would
know, and choose to wait or not, instead of thinking it simply doesn't work.

> IMHO users expectations and what we can realistically provide at this point 
> (especially through fproxy) are a *LONG* way apart. There are numerous 
> complaints on the write-in parts of the survey about either the lack of a 
> GUI, or the lack of a search engine, or people saying they've tried other P2P 
> etc etc. What they mean is they want us to reimplement Napster, not Google! 
> If we put XMLLibrarian on the home page, it will only search the freesite 
> web. It will not search Thaw indexes, it will not search FMS, it will not ask 
> people to insert files which aren't currently available (often a good 
> tactic), and to top it all off it will probably take around a minute to 
> return no results because 1) the network is small, 2) most of 
> the "filesharing" content isn't visible from the freesite part of the 
> network, and 3) users don't know this and treat it as a classic p2p search 
> box.

There is a French user (sich) that is working on an insert-on-demand
tool that can achieve that. It works on top of the WoTplugin. For now,
it is a standalone app, but we agreed on rewriting it as a Freenet
plugin as soon as it is proven to work.

Such a tool could address that problem : users who type something in the
appropriate searchbox will actually get a list of what is available. Of
course, files would have to be inserted and we need to warn them that
the download can take a long time...

> This is the fundamental problem: Freenet simply doesn't do what most users 
> want, when they figure that out they will uninstall it. So I don't think it 
> is likely that minor usability improvements will bring us dramatically more 
> users.
> 
> We do need to know whether this is the problem or whether we really do have 
> 30% of our would-be users having error 1067 etc etc. IMHO that is very 
> unlikely, and in terms of write-ins, there are more complaints about no GUI 
> or it being slow than about specific install failures that we know about.
> 
> We are left with the following strategies:
> 
> 1. Concentrate on what we're good at, and dramatically improve performance, 
> both in terms of speed and in terms of reducing system cost, so that those 
> users who are interested in what we *can* do will stick around.
> 2. Make those things that we're reasonable at but aren't part of fproxy more 
> visible and easier to use. Three sub-options:
> a) Make everything important part of fproxy. In particular, FMS, Thaw, and 
> jSite/Thingamablog (if users want to contribute content, it's especially 
> important to keep them).

My preference goes to this one. I'm not saying all client apps should
disappear, but IMHO basic functionnalities (chat, search, filesharing,
blogging) should be accessible though Fproxy, right after Freenet is
installed.

> b) Make it *really* easy to launch the external GUI Freenet apps. I'm not 
> sure 
> how, that's the problem: even if we implement a quicklaunch rabbit icon, 
> there are so many on a typical XP desktop now that XP hides them and users 
> ignore them. Which brings us to the third option...
> c) Build what the users want - an all sin

[freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22100 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a ?crit :
> On Friday 22 August 2008 18:11, batosai at freenetproject.org wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-08-22 17:11:36 + (Fri, 22 Aug 2008)
>> New Revision: 22100
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/WotTestDrive.java
>> Log:
>> Further testing of the WoT behaviour.
> 
> You still need to wipe the database before and after, no? AFAICS you deleted 
> this below.

Right, I removed it because I wanted to know how it would behave if run
several times. I'll put it back later.

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Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r22100 - trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT

[Julien Cornuwel]

Matthew Toseland a écrit :
> On Friday 22 August 2008 18:11, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Author: batosai
>> Date: 2008-08-22 17:11:36 + (Fri, 22 Aug 2008)
>> New Revision: 22100
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/apps/WoT/src/plugins/WoT/WotTestDrive.java
>> Log:
>> Further testing of the WoT behaviour.
> 
> You still need to wipe the database before and after, no? AFAICS you deleted 
> this below.

Right, I removed it because I wanted to know how it would behave if run
several times. I'll put it back later.



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[freenet-dev] WoTplugin bootstrap

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi,

I just add the bootstrap support to the WoTplugin. Basically, all new
identities will trust the plugin's identity (the key of the freesite).
That seed identity will trust all freenet developpers.

For now, the seed only trusts me. That means new identities will only
see me and people I personnaly trust.

Could you all create an Identity - using your freesite's keypair if you
have one - and give me the requestURI so I can add it to the seed ?

Regards,

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[freenet-dev] 1159 release ?

[Julien Cornuwel]

Hi,

Saces an I both use FredPluginl10n interface in our plugins, which is
only available on trunk. Could someone skilled enough (I mean, not me)
solve the bucket problem and release a new stable version ?

This would allow normal people to test our plugin, as I'm gonna need
some feedback on the bootstrap feature I just added.

A new freenet-ext.jar with db4o support would be cool too...

Thanks in advance,

Regards.

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