Re: [freenet-dev] Installer file name
On Tuesday 21 July 2009 02:22:55 Juiceman wrote: > Currently we distribute our installer using a name such as > FreenetInstaller-1223.exe but we call it 0.7.5 I suggest we use the > nomenclature FreenetInstaller-0.7.5.1223.exe that is more in line with > what appears to be standard amongst many applications. > > Thoughts? Agreed. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] UnsupportedClassVersion
On Saturday 18 July 2009 04:51:51 Ian Clarke wrote: > Currently seeing this with the current testing build on a mac: > > The specified plugin > http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/plugins/next-build/Freetalk.jarco >uld not be loaded: unexpected error while plugin loading > java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: Bad version number in .class file > Freenet reports the following JVM info: > > Java Version: 1.5.0_19 > > Although I do have Java 1.6 on my machine (and Java 1.5). > > Ian. Recently I added some code to the node which Freetalk needs. This code has not been deployed with 1223 yet, so maybe that's the problem. Further, the builds of Freetalk which I'm seeing in alpha/plugins are very outdated - toad didn't have time for reviewing the recent changes yet. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] status
On Tuesday 28 July 2009 21:03:42 Matthew Toseland wrote: > > > What is the status of FreeTalk? > I wrote my last exam on Monday and am on 3 months of vacation now, those should be completely sufficient to at least finish the first official release. I cannot specify whether I will finish it within 1 or 3 months from now on because the spare time I have and my health vary very much right now, I will continue to try doing some work on it every day. xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] status
On Tuesday 28 July 2009 21:26:37 Florent Daignière wrote: > Last time people talked about it, only you and xor where objecting to > trashing the bug database altogether and switching to another bug > tracker (possibly hosted by someone else). Because it is obviously insane and there is no need to list any arguments against it? :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet blog plugin?
On Thursday 30 July 2009 13:25:28 Matthew Toseland wrote: > It has been pointed out that a minimal blog engine can be written in approx > 22KB of php - around 800 lines of code at most. I suspect that given a > template I could probably put together a blog plugin in a few days. This > would integrate with Freetalk for comments and for announcing the site > initially. It should make it easier to contribute content to Freenet, > eliminating the need to get Thingamablog working, etc. Thoughts? I think it would be wise to integrate blog functionality into Freetalk. - Freetalk identity profile pages will be very easy to implement, probably 1-2 days of work: WoT allows the per-identity storage of pairs of so called "properties". Properties could be anything which applies to social network profile pages: Your name, your hobbies, etc. - Your blog could be internally stored as a Freetalk board where only you can post messages, and the messages would be displayed on your profile page as a blog. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status report of GSoC and testing welcome
Sounds very nice! Does it also apply to activelinks? IMHO it would be nice to have with activelinks because then we could enable them by default again - activelinks make the bookmarks list feel more "alive". signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Fwd: [Freenet 0001873]: Frost: "received packet twice" over and over
On Saturday 15 August 2009 15:26:21 Matthew Toseland wrote: > IMHO if we search for something we will often want to see old bugs. Hence > resolved -> suspended, or resolved -> user not responsive, or something > like that, is more appropriate than closed. Okay, I'll use that in the future. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [nore...@freenetproject.org: [Freenet 0001104]: NAT-PMP support]
On Sunday 16 August 2009 16:38:15 NextGen$ wrote: > Hi, > > What are you doing here? starting an edit-war on the bug tracker? > Editing the priority/milestone of loads of tickets won't help to get them > implemented... and it is spamming our inboxes (I'm still subscribed to > most, like most of us). > - People are complaining about the bug tracker being bloated and unusable, therefore I'm trying to work 1hour+ every day on cleaning it up. That is good, isn't it? - As you've experienced, all changes I am doing are being reported by mail to the other developers, so I am not doing anything hidden, it is publicly reviewed. So if you do not agree with any of my changes, feel free to revert them. - When setting milestones/target versions/priorities, of course that is a *suggestion* by me, and I only do it for issue where I am very certain about it. I want to help in getting an overview of what might be nice for 0.8.If you do not agree, please revert. > Changing the priority of tickets you've no business with whatsoever (you're > neither a reporter, not a contributor to that part of the code, nor even > subscribed to the ticket) is just unacceptable. I am only changing the issues which seem easy to judge for a non-fred-core- developer. I consider this as very useful: People who have deep knowledge in how the node works should spend their time on doing stuff where that knowledge is *required* - it would suck very much if toad had to spend his time on resolving trivial issues which someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the node's internals (such as me) can resolve! Anyway, as you've been demanding to drop all contents of the bugtracker - I think it's better if a person who has "no business with whatsoever" cleans it up than just having all of the bugtracker be deleted. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] "Downloading application" stage of Web Start installer slow, and other installer issues
On Sunday 16 August 2009 17:50:21 Ian Clarke wrote: > > Can't we use a 3rd party XML parsing library to get around this > vulnerability? We should rather nag Sun or the responsible Mac people (I don't know whether they have package management and just not upgraded the package yet or whether Sun did not deploy a new version?) to fix the issue, it is a shame that a remotely exploitable bug is not fixed for weeks. Its not our job, and switching to other libraries would be a major amount of work I guess. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [nore...@freenetproject.org: [Freenet 0001104]: NAT-PMP support]
On Sunday 16 August 2009 22:36:17 NextGen$ wrote: > * xor [2009-08-16 17:33:15]: > > On Sunday 16 August 2009 16:38:15 NextGen$ wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > What are you doing here? starting an edit-war on the bug tracker? > > > Editing the priority/milestone of loads of tickets won't help to get > > > them implemented... and it is spamming our inboxes (I'm still > > > subscribed to most, like most of us). > > > > - People are complaining about the bug tracker being bloated and > > unusable, therefore I'm trying to work 1hour+ every day on cleaning it > > up. That is good, isn't it? > > I'm not so sure about that. Who's been complaining exactly? You for example. > Mostly people not using it. A bug tracking software is a tool intended to be > used by developpers; One of the main problems we have is that we intend to > make non-developpers use it by asking *users* to report bugs there. That's why we need to clean their reports up like it happens in zillions of other open source projects. > > - As you've experienced, all changes I am doing are being reported by > > mail to the other developers, so I am not doing anything hidden, it is > > publicly reviewed. So if you do not agree with any of my changes, feel > > free to revert them. > > I disagree with most of what has been done today That sentence is very useless for me if I want to improve my work. A detailed list of what's wrong would help. > > > - When setting milestones/target versions/priorities, of course that is a > > *suggestion* by me, and I only do it for issue where I am very certain > > about it. I want to help in getting an overview of what might be nice for > > 0.8.If you do not agree, please revert. > > The thing is, I don't have one hour a day to spend reverting your > modifications. Then delete the mails and let someone else do it. The whole point about open source community-driven projects is: Either you participate or you do not. If you do not participate then you must accept the fact that other's do your work and maybe do it worse than you could have done. You cannot demand that people stop working on certain stuff because you could do it better WHILE saying that you won't work on it (which you did by stating that you want the contents of the bugtracker deleted). > > > > Changing the priority of tickets you've no business with whatsoever > > > (you're neither a reporter, not a contributor to that part of the code, > > > nor even subscribed to the ticket) is just unacceptable. > > > > I am only changing the issues which seem easy to judge for a > > non-fred-core- developer. > > Take that one in particular: NAT-PMP support: It's reasonably easy to do > (I've implemented the up&p one: I know what I'm talking about), it would > improve the "reachability" of a significant number of nodes (all of those > behind Apple's routers at least). Connectivity of the nodes has proven, on > all p2p networks to be a key factor in efficiency (just read the literature > about it if common sense isn't enough) ... and yet you're judging it's > useless. I changed the priority to none because UPnP is the primary standard for port mapping in home-use-routers these days and apple routers are just a minority. Given the amount of currently active developers we do not have the time for supporting such small minorities. I've just changed it to "low" as a compromise, but I think that is okay because there is really much more important stuff to do (usability, stability, stability, stability etc. etc.) > > I consider this as very useful: People who have deep knowledge in > > how the node works should spend their time on doing stuff where that > > knowledge is *required* - it would suck very much if toad had to spend > > his time on resolving trivial issues which someone who has absolutely no > > knowledge of the node's internals (such as me) can resolve! > > So, if I'm following your logic, you've lowered the priority from "normal" > to "none", on the basis that it's not core stuffs and that toad shouldn't > work on it according to you. > > Is the only purpose of the bug tracker to be toad's glorified todo list? As > far as I know, he's grown up enough to maintain his own. The purpose of the bugtracker I'd say is to be the place where people who contribute code for the project on a *regular basis* and non-minor amount should manage their workload. The project right now does not seem to have very many regularly active developers and as we as programmers all kn
Re: [freenet-dev] [nore...@freenetproject.org: [Freenet 0001104]: NAT-PMP support]
On Monday 17 August 2009 16:33:53 Daniel Cheng wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:16 PM, xor wrote:
> > On Sunday 16 August 2009 22:36:17 NextGen$ wrote:
> >> * xor [2009-08-16 17:33:15]:
> >> > On Sunday 16 August 2009 16:38:15 NextGen$ wrote:
> >> > > Hi,Being another developer who have __tried__ to fix the issue
> >> > > tracker,
>
> I think I have to say something here.
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:16 PM, xor wrote:
> > On Sunday 16 August 2009 22:36:17 NextGen$ wrote:
> >> * xor [2009-08-16 17:33:15]:
> >> > On Sunday 16 August 2009 16:38:15 NextGen$ wrote:
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > What are you doing here? starting an edit-war on the bug tracker?
> >> > > Editing the priority/milestone of loads of tickets won't help to get
> >> > > them implemented... and it is spamming our inboxes (I'm still
> >> > > subscribed to most, like most of us).
> >> >
> >> > - People are complaining about the bug tracker being bloated and
> >> > unusable, therefore I'm trying to work 1hour+ every day on cleaning it
> >> > up. That is good, isn't it?
> >>
> >> I'm not so sure about that. Who's been complaining exactly?
> >
> > You for example.
>
> I think nextgen (and me too) think the current issue tracker is
> beyond fixable and should start from sketch.
Why? All which has to be done is properly tagging all 1300 issues non-
closed/resolved issues and marking issues as resolved which are not
resolvable.
This is a simple process on 1-by-1 base:
while(not all issues are tagged properly) {
review_issue();
decide_about_tags();
decide_whether_to_close_or_not();
continue_with_next_issue();
}
If you say "it's not fixable" then you say that there is at list one single
issue in the tracker for which you cannot decide what to do with it.
If we consider ourselves as UNABLE to decide for a single issue what to do
with it, then we must accept the fact that creating a new bug tracker won't
help: That single issue will appear in the new bugtracker again and then we
must consider the new bugtracker as not fixable again and start with a new one
again.
- Cmon, the only problem is that we are too lazy for cleaning the tracker up,
and creating a new one won't help because it will get messed up AGAIN after
some time and then we will have the same problem.
EITHER we learn to properly maintain our bugtracker or we have end up with a
screwed up bugtracker - no matter how often we delete all issues.
> >> Mostly people not using it. A bug tracking software is a tool intended
> >> to be used by developpers; One of the main problems we have is that we
> >> intend to make non-developpers use it by asking *users* to report bugs
> >> there.
> >
> > That's why we need to clean their reports up like it happens in zillions
> > of other open source projects.
>
> Freenet is unique in a way,
> To prove my points, let's do a random sampling of bugs
> -- bug 1000 to bug 1010 (for some older sample)
> 1000 reported by toad -- fproxy enchancment, no progress
It's a feature - I changed severity from "minor" to "feature".
That probably applies to many of the other issues below.
> 1001 reported by toad -- fproxy enchancment, no progress
> 1002 reported by toad -- installer enchancment, fixed by nextgen
> 1003 reported by toad -- fproxy enchancment -- related to 1000
> (not marked) -- no progress
> 1004 reported by toad -- fproxy enchancment, no progress
> 1005 reported by toad -- fproxy enchancment, (is this related to
> nextgen' student' gsoc?)
> 1006 reported by toad -- enchancment? -- should be a subtask/notes
> for 1004/1005,
> 1007 reported by toad -- network enchancment, fixed by nextgen
> 1008 reported by toad -- just a question, not even an enchancment
> [mark as assigned]
> 1009 reported by Jerome Flesch (the thaw guy) -- thaw bug(?) --
> resolved. 1010 reported by Jerome Flesch (the thaw guy) -- thaw bug(?) --
> resolved.
>
> bug 3300 - bug 3310 (for more recent sample)
>3300 reported by toad -- interdex enchancment
>3301 reported by other -- dup of the infamous "not acking" "bug"
>3302 reported by Zero3 -- enchancment / todo -- depends on upstream
>3303 reported by Zero3 -- enchancment / todo -- "feedback" (ugh?)
>3304 reported by toad -- just a question
>3305 reported by other -- dup of the infamous "not acking" "bug"
>3306 reported by toad -- enchancment
>3307 reported by p0s -- bug? it
Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23459 - trunk/plugins/WoT
On Thursday 13 November 2008 18:24:30 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thursday 13 November 2008 16:45, xor wrote:
> > > > + try {
> > > > + Identity id = Identity.getByURI(db,
> > >
> > > state.getURI());
> > >
> > > > + identities.remove(id);
> > >
> > > You *really* should check the return value here. I've had
> > > wierd bugs with this sort of thing.
> > >
> > > > + } catch(UnknownIdentityException ex) {}
> > > > +
> > > > }
> >
> > You mean db4o could return a different ientity than the requested
> > one or what?!?
>
> No... well hopefully not. I mean state.getURI() might return something
> wrong, identities.remove() might fail because of some wierd bug ... just
> check the retval and log an ERROR if it's not successfully removed.
This is fixed in the recent code.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet 0.7 build 1229, 1230 and 1231
On Friday 21 August 2009 19:11:43 Matthew Toseland wrote: > 1231: > - Increase the maximum peers limit and make it scale with your upstream > bandwidth. 11 peers at 10KB/sec, 15 at 20KB/sec, 19 at 30KB/sec, 26 at > 60KB/sec, 34 at 100KB/sec and 40 and 140KB/sec. Show the limit on the stats > page. > - When changing the store type (most notably when setting the store size in > the first time wizard), don't stall for minutes or more preallocating the > datastore - do it in the background. IMHO this was a serious problem for > new users with a lot of disk space. Cool. I guess this should be published to the freenetproject.org news. And you can mark that one as implemented: http://freenet.uservoice.com/pages/8861-general/suggestions/93039-release- the-20-nodes-barrier?ref=titl signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet 0.7 build 1229, 1230 and 1231
On Friday 21 August 2009 19:16:15 xor wrote: > On Friday 21 August 2009 19:11:43 Matthew Toseland wrote: > > 1231: > > - Increase the maximum peers limit and make it scale with your upstream > > bandwidth. 11 peers at 10KB/sec, 15 at 20KB/sec, 19 at 30KB/sec, 26 at > > 60KB/sec, 34 at 100KB/sec and 40 and 140KB/sec. Show the limit on the > > stats page. > > - When changing the store type (most notably when setting the store size > > in the first time wizard), don't stall for minutes or more preallocating > > the datastore - do it in the background. IMHO this was a serious problem > > for new users with a lot of disk space. > > Cool. I guess this should be published to the freenetproject.org news. And > you can mark that one as implemented: > > http://freenet.uservoice.com/pages/8861-general/suggestions/93039-release- > the-20-nodes-barrier?ref=titl Another idea: Maybe we should even brag about having implemented the #1 request on uservoice - not only for the purpose of bragging but also for getting more attention on uservoice. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Win64 support options?
On Friday 21 August 2009 22:31:03 Matthew Toseland wrote: > How common is 64-bit Vista? Currently we install a 32-bit JVM, which works, > but doesn't get auto-updated, and is somewhat slower than if we'd installed > a 64-bit one (assuming we fix the FEC libraries and manage to build them > for Windows). We can't install a 64-bit JVM, because the free version of > the Java Service Wrapper (which we use for self-restarting the node when > deploying updates, and for detecting hangs) only supports 32-bit. > > Options? Vista64 is very common already and Win7 x64 will be even more widespread. 64 bit CPUs have been there for ages and we should support them. Regarding the 64bit JVM I have to state that we should keep shipping the 32bit one - it still seems to be intended by Sun that 32bit java is used on 64bit windows: - The 64bit JVM does not install a Firefox plugin, or at least it does not work (maybe because Firefox is still 32bit?) - The auto updater of the 64 bit JVM installs a 32 bit JVM so then you have 2. This is obviously a bug but it shows that Sun does not properly maintain the 64bit windows JVM yet. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Seednodes wanted: poor bootstrapping performance at the moment
On Saturday 22 August 2009 19:06:25 Matthew Toseland wrote: > An important part of the solution is more seednodes. If you have at least > 256kbps upstream bandwidth (more is better), a stable 24x7 node, a static I would not say that seednodes need that much upstream. If you run a node with 100 KiB/s upstream limit and do not run any inserts it usually does only 50-70 KiB/s, and therefore is not fully loaded. Seednodes with 50 KiB/s and above probably all are useful. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Seednodes wanted: poor bootstrapping performance at the moment
On Monday 24 August 2009 13:19:28 xor wrote: > On Saturday 22 August 2009 19:06:25 Matthew Toseland wrote: > > An important part of the solution is more seednodes. If you have at least > > 256kbps upstream bandwidth (more is better), a stable 24x7 node, a static > > I would not say that seednodes need that much upstream. If you run a node > with 100 KiB/s upstream limit and do not run any inserts it usually does > only 50-70 KiB/s, and therefore is not fully loaded. Seednodes with 50 > KiB/s and above probably all are useful. Oh sorry I misinterpreted your original message, I read "256 kb/s", not "kbit/s". My fault. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Distributed pair programming for freenet?
On Wednesday 14 October 2009 18:43:24 Ximin Luo wrote: > My first thoughts are that this sort of thing is probably more useful in > environments where people are in close physical and temporal proximity to > each other (eg. an office). > > The freenet project is made up of people scattered all over the world; most > of the development does not occur in parallel by multiple developers in > real time. I second that. Though it would be useful if we had the capability to mark code as reviewed line-by-line in the git repository. Imagine some color-coded display of the source code: The more people have reviewed a certain line of code, the more it becomes dark green. Not reviewed code would be red. But anything which requires live interaction between developers won't work, we all work at different times of day. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Can we link freenetforums.org into the official website?
My POV is there: http://www.freenetforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8&p=25#p25 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Update on getting rid of emu
On Friday 30 October 2009 16:29:57 Matthew Toseland wrote: > > If we don't keep the bug tracker: > - We will need to do a "spring clean": Keep the current bug tracker up for > a while but read-only, *manually* migrate any important bugs and issues to > the new tracker. - This will be significant work. > - It will involve going over the bugs, dumping those which are out of date, > abandoned etc, and rewriting those bugs and feature issues that are still > valid. Trac's wiki functionality may be useful for this, although it loses > the ability to link bugs formally. - It may be a useful exercise in terms > of prioritising and de-junking. > Migrating it in read-only mode is insane because there would be no sane way for monitoring the migration progress: Which bugs have been reviewed & migrated? Instead, we should clean up mantis itself until ALL bugs there are suitable for migration and then migrate. Besides, as I've said numerous times, we MUST migrate all bugs because from a software engineering point of view the content of a bugtracker is the most valuable data of a project besides the soure code and the documentation. Deleting any of it without reviewing it is just unprofessional, so we must make very sure that no issues in mantis get lost. BTW: When did someone do the last backup of it's database? Does emu have a backup system? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [FYI] Sun Java SE 5.0 EOL today.
On Wednesday 04 November 2009 03:43:34 Daniel Cheng wrote: > Just FYI, > > Sun J2SE5.0 have just came to EOL today. > Sun is still providing updates for "Java SE for Business 1.5" licensees. > [ see http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp ] > If I remember it correctly, the reason that we were 1.5 compliant was that there's no java 1.6 for MAC, right? Is there one now? Can we move on to 1.6 code? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [FYI] Sun Java SE 5.0 EOL today.
On Wednesday 04 November 2009 17:49:56 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Colin Davis wrote: > http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardRN/ >JavaSnowLeopardRN.pdf > > > Mac OS X 10.6 contains an Apple-provided Java SE 6 version of 1.6.0_15 > > for both 32 and 64-bit Intel architectures. > > Ah, ok - they eventually released 1.6 for 32 bit, didn't know that. > > However, I think it is still a problem if 1.5 remains the default on > OSX 10.5, since upgrading Java is a significant barrier to entry. > > That being said, I think the key question is still: what do we gain by > dropping 1.5 compatibility? I like the "@Override" keywords, I think it still compiles as 1.5 code while only producing warnings. People have occasionally been removing them from the source code while reviewing it, we might decide to stop doing that. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Plugin auto-update: deploying the WoT etc?
On Friday 20 November 2009 14:38:07 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Matthew Toseland > > > wrote: > > > > Plugin auto-update is implemented and apparently working. More could be > > done to improve it, of course, but it looks like it should be sufficient > > for plugin updates to be released and deployed without having to deploy a > > new fred build to force them. New builds are distributed through USKs, > > just as with fred builds, and when they are downloaded, fred asks the > > user whether they want to update the plugin. If they say yes, we do a > > final check of the revocation key and then deploy the new version of the > > plugin. > > > > This should be enough for us to deploy WoT, Freetalk, and FlogHelper (and > > maybe more things e.g. digger3's IRC work?) as semi-official plugins, not > > bundled, marked as beta, but downloadable through the plugins page. Is > > it? (When) should I deploy these plugins? > > ASAP? > > Ian. Yes, I will try to fix the remaining critical bugs hopefully today or in the next 3 days and tell toad when they're ready to be deployed. xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [Wot] Recent WoT changes code review/brief testing
On Thursday 26 November 2009 18:18:21 bbac...@googlemail.com wrote: > Thanks for your review. > > Xor will address this one: > > - returning null is *significantly* faster, is this worthwhile? It makes > > the code more consistent... I don't see where "Also import introduction > > for already known identities." is implemented. > No, I won't. We throw NoSuch* exception everywhere in WoT/FT by design. Changing it to null pointer usage would by a major amount of work and IMHO be an abuse of null pointers. If Java was designed for using null pointers everywhere then there would not be declared exception throwing, I guess the whole purpose of declared throwing is to prevent the null pointer mess. Consider that using null pointers would result in people usually forgetting to "if(blah == null)", resulting in runtime NPE because the compiler can't prevent you from forgetting the if(). signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Emu disk failure?
Hi, someone said on IRC recently that the RAID in emu has had a failed disk. Is this true? Has it been replaced? If not, is there any other redundancy left? What about backups, are there any automatic backups done? xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] WoT+Freetalk
On Saturday 28 November 2009 18:59:27 bbac...@googlemail.com wrote: > Seems like we have a greater audience these days caused by this > article in the Guardian. > Would it be a good idea to release the latest versions of WoT+Freetalk now? NO. What I said is still valid: There are issues which MUST be fixed before a large amount of people obtains them. I am working to get them fixed ASAP and I will definitely tell you guys when they are. And I'm not talking about final version release (scheduled for around christmas) but about release as "marked as experimental but available on the plugins page via 'load official plugins'"). I am working on getting WoT done right now, it took a few days longer than expected, sorry (I'm in the progress of moving to my new flat), but is almost done. There are 6 issues left on my TODO list: - 0003436: [Web Interface] Plugins should take care of infoboxes changes - 0003554: [Core] Re-consider score calculation changes - 0003549: [Core] Restoring an identity does not make the seed identities visible - 0003503: [Core] Restoring identities is kind of broken - 0002800: [Functionnalities] Resolve all comments marked as FIXME. (For the FIXMEs, there are about 2 or 3 left.) Toad said that his vacation begins on 5th december, so I will get WoT done until Friday, then he can add it to the plugins list before leaving. For Freetalk I cannot tell right now how many issues there are to get it into the official plugins list as beta: I have not checked yet how many there are because I was told that I should try to get WoT done ASAP. So I'll do WoT this week and then try to get Freetalk ready for beta release ASAP. xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Plugin autoupdating question
- The autoupdater MUST call plugin.terminate() before unloading the plugin because plugins use databases and those must be properly closed. - Deadlock bugs however might prevent plugins from terminating properly, terminate() might not return. So the question is: If a bug is introduced which permanently breaks terminate(), even after restarting the node, will the autoupdater handle that? IMHO if it is told to update a plugin and the node is restarted in between then it should update the plugin before even starting it after the restart. That would prevent this issue Further, toad please remember that you should add logic to the node which calls terminate() on all plugins before node shutdown, otherwise the WoT/Freetalk databases might get corrupted, resulting in un-debuggle weird issues. xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] WoT+Freetalk
On Tuesday 01 December 2009 18:25:23 xor wrote: > On Saturday 28 November 2009 18:59:27 bbac...@googlemail.com wrote: > > Seems like we have a greater audience these days caused by this > > article in the Guardian. > > Would it be a good idea to release the latest versions of WoT+Freetalk > > now? > So I'll do WoT this week and then try to get Freetalk ready for beta > release ASAP. I thought about it again and I will also try to get Freetalk done this week so the people from the guardian might get told about it. But please be patient until I give the okay, we don't want to release a really broken version so I need to make sure it is not first. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Plugin autoupdating question
On Tuesday 01 December 2009 18:49:21 Evan Daniel wrote: > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:30 PM, xor wrote: > > - The autoupdater MUST call plugin.terminate() before unloading the > > plugin because plugins use databases and those must be properly closed. > > > > - Deadlock bugs however might prevent plugins from terminating properly, > > terminate() might not return. > > > > So the question is: If a bug is introduced which permanently breaks > > terminate(), even after restarting the node, will the autoupdater handle > > that? > > > > IMHO if it is told to update a plugin and the node is restarted in > > between then it should update the plugin before even starting it after > > the restart. That would prevent this issue > > > > Further, toad please remember that you should add logic to the node which > > calls terminate() on all plugins before node shutdown, otherwise the > > WoT/Freetalk databases might get corrupted, resulting in un-debuggle > > weird issues. > > Surely the on-disk database is always in a valid (or at least > recoverable) state? That is one of the points of using a database, > right? That it can recover to a valid state after a software or > hardware crash, such as abrupt termination of the program or loss of > power? > It's quite irrelevant actually, the point is that there is no point in NOT calling terminate() =) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] WoT/FT status update
Hi folks, I did not work on Freetalk/WoT this week because I was busy moving to my new flat. I was living at my parent's house before. I finished moving here now. This is good news: It means that I have more time for working on FT/WoT now because living in a flat does not involve as much work as living at a house. And besides that, I'm now living exactly where I want to live which means that my general motivation is higher :) So I'll continue working on WoT/FT now. - WoT is ready to be published on the plugins page marked as beta. Toad will add it with the next node update as soon as he is back from vacation - Freetalk is also almost ready to be published as beta there. I'll try to get it done for that within the next week. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Emu disk failure?
On Friday 27 November 2009 23:56:48 Ian Clarke wrote: > If this is true then we need to inform our hosting provider > immediately as they can fix this at no cost to us. > > Is it true? It seems so. Regarding backups: [20:51] toad_: i recently asked you whether we have recent backups of the mantis database (because of the failed disk in emu), unfortunately i forgot your answer? [20:51] i made an off site backup before going to copenhagen[20:51] i need to make another one soon [20:53] fine :) [20:53] we should consider getting the disk replaced though, because realistically its gonna take another 6 months until we bother to get rid of emu [20:55] what exactly are the symptoms of the failure? if it only flew out of the raid without showing bad sectors in a full smart test, readding it might just work fine - semi-dead disks often fly out without any reason and work fine if re-added [20:56] smart test: for starting the test "smartctl -d ata -t long /dev/sdX", after some hours use "smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sdX" for getting the output. ommit the "-d ata" if its not a SATA disk [20:56] I wouldn't do that if it is on the same IDE controller signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [freenet-cvs] r23396 - in trunk/plugins/Freetalk:. WoT
On Thursday 13 November 2008 15:28:46 Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Thursday 13 November 2008 01:50, xor wrote: > > > We should have a callback interface for plugins to notify > > > when the node has finished startup... > > > > Was that a feature suggestion or is there such an interface? > > Feature suggestion. :| > > Although scheduling a job on the ticker is a close approximation, since it > doesn't start until relatively late on. > > Also in recent builds the plugins themselves don't start until relatively > late on... Added to FT/WoT bugtracker so we can delete the thread. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Development blocked
On Sunday 03 January 2010 17:03:40 p01air3 p01air3 wrote: > On its freesite, Toad says he cannot make the 1240 release before long. > Someone can make 1240 to allow the development of the freetalk project? > (This plugin will appear in the list of official plugins and it will be on > the freenet network, fetchable anonymously and up to date.) It's important > to increase the number of users. > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl I'm the lead developer of Freetalk and I will tell toad when it's ready for deployment on the plugins page, which it is not right now. He will take care about 1240 then. I'm working on it though. So no need to hurry. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Freetalk status update
Hi, I just finished reviewing the many commits to Freetalk of bback. Thanks to bback we now have partial l10n in Freetalk (and WoT). And he repaired the NNTP server, which is very nice. Sdiz will give Freetalk a github-logbot after I've helped him to sort out his issues with Freetalk. Nice! And he also gave us a Settings page which can be used to enable/disable the configure the NNTP server at the moment I'll have to fix a few issues, probably 1-2 days of work, until we can release the next binaries of Freetalk. After that I'll try to sort out the remaining issues which prevent us from having Freetalk as beta on the plugins page. So thanks very much to bback and sdiz! Traffic on Freetalk is increasing by the way, and at least to myself it seems to work quite reliable. I also have the feeling that the issues with identity introduction (no catpchas visible or solving them has no effect) have been fixed by WoT 4001 - have not really received more reports about them. If you have the feeling that it still does not work for you, please tell me. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freetalk status update
On Friday 08 January 2010 17:42:56 Ian Clarke wrote: > Can you remind us where we can download the latest snapshots - I can > never find them. > > Ian. http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/plugins/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] If anyone would like to do some math for WoT please read
Currenty, the WoT IdentityFetcher permanently subscribes to the trust list USK of EVERY known identity, resulting in a total load of n*n USK subscriptions on the network - each identity subscribes to the USK of every other identity. (Even though it does O(n²), we will soon release the current code as WoT 0.4 on the plugins page labeled as testing because it is guaranteed to fetch all identities, i.e. guraanteed to "just work" and has proven to be very stable in all other means. And WoT 0.4 in general is optimized for new features & stability, not for performance. 0.5 is planned to fix usability and performance issues and bugs of course. - First implement all functions to work properly, then optimize and see if it still works the same as the previous version, that's my plan) I propose the following change for WoT 0.5 to get rid of the permanent O(N*N): - Permanent USK subscriptions should only be done to rank1 identities: The identities to which an OwnIdentity has assigned a (positive of course) trust value (= the users trustees). This should give us "small world network"-effects already. And if I'm right it changes everything from n² to some logarithmic function of n. That is to be proved :) - The trust lists which are fetched of the rank1 identities will give us new edition hints for new trust lists of other identities. Its called "hints" because we cannot tell the USK manager that those editions REALLY exist, they might be spoofed, i.e. too high. The USK manager supports specifying an edition as hint-only. - So for rank 2 identities (Y is rank 2 <=> an own identity trusts X and X trusts Y): If we receive a new edition hint for a rank2 identity, immediately start a fetch for the hinted edition. Give the fetch a certain amount of time to succeed, abort it if it doesn't. I propose 1 hour as the time limit. Tell the USK manager NOT to attempt to search for any newer editions than the hinted one: We want to use the information gathered from our rank1 identities instead. But do not disable the fetching attempts of older editions than the hinted one - to detect bogus hints. - For rank3 and above identities, do the same as for rank2 but only allow a hint-fetch-attempt every N days. N is to be carefully tweaked, I propose we start with 3. - If any identity has not had a fetch attempt for >= M days, try to fetch them once. In other words, each identity is fetched at max every M days so that identities which are not "hit" by the random heuristic above still get fetched every now and then. DO allow the USK manager to search for editions higher than the current hinted one. Do this to catch bugs in the other heuristics. Log if an edition was fetched which was higher than the latest received hint. I propose M to be 7 days. Now the question is: Who can calculate the maximal, minimal and average complexity of my algorithm? :) I'm aware of the fact that the last point (fetch all identities every 7 days) introduces some O(n²) again but IMHO its necessary for preventing bugs which could cause some identities to be NEVER fetched. We can disable it after we're sure that it's not needed. And if anyone has suggestions for improvements, feel free to give them. I consider my proposed rank1 and rank2 behavior as quite natural, but for rank3 and above we might for example use an exponential function of rank, score and whatever for the minimal delay between fetches. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] If anyone would like to do some math for WoT please read
I forgot to mention that my message is constructed from this entry on the bug tracker: https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3816 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] If anyone would like to do some math for WoT please read
On Wednesday 13 January 2010 01:35:44 xor wrote: > I forgot to mention that my message is constructed from this entry on the > bug tracker: https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=3816 (Not stolen, it's my own bug report =) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Large file upload
On Monday 25 January 2010 02:03:06 Ian Clarke wrote: > Ok, just noticed that there is a check box for "Compress", but it > seems to have no effect when you upload directly from disk (perhaps it > works if you upload from the browser - but I'm not going to do that > for a file this size). That checkbox is not supposed to belong to the Browse button. The UI elements of the upload box are just not probably sub-boxed so you don't see which of them belong together. BUT the current head revision of fred contains "Compress" checkboxes in the "Browse disk" view! So the next fred build will have that. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?
On Wednesday 27 January 2010 23:42:06 Ian Clarke wrote: > I think a good compromise is to use a dedicated server, but to try to use > it in the simplest most "vanilla" way possible. This means stick to stuff > downloadable through apt-get, and don't do anything fancy without a very > good reason. Emu had some fairly elaborate re-configuration which was > ultimately the cause of its failure. Osprey (the new server) should remain > as close to a stock Ubuntu install as possible. That is a good concept IMHO, especially because we use the most popular distribution now so it ought to be somehow well maintained, at least we can hope it is =) apt-get usually also notifies us about updated default config files and offers a diff. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] What do we want to host ourselves?
On Wednesday 27 January 2010 21:43:17 Matthew Toseland wrote: > A side-issue is whether we want help (volunteers) with system > administration, and whether we can trust people who come forward. Do we > have any policy on who should have root access? If you want to help then > mail me ... I don't want to administrate the system but I would like to have manage access on the bugtracker if that's possible. I have quite a few ideas on introducing new categories, renaming old ones, etc. So if you want to then give me privileges please =) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] How the bugtracker is actually usable for deciding what to do next
Hi, it is possible to save public view-filters on the "View all bugs" page. Public = All other users can use the filter. I created a filter for all categories related to fred called "Important issues with much filtering and proper sorting" which shows an output of 114 issues of the total 3000 issues in the tracker. Now 114 is a manageable amount of issues. So who said that the bugtracker was unusable? :) Go try the filter and fix the bugs, many are critical. =) Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Some (very) preliminary mock-ups of new UI
On Saturday 06 February 2010 05:10:53 Ian Clarke wrote: > Pupok sent me a PDF containing a very preliminary mock-up of what the new > front page will look like. Note that it is a little pixelated, the final > UI will not be. The general idea is to keep it as simple as possible, and > ensure that the UI is intuitive by following established UI conventions. > > The purpose of the new UI is *not* to replace all the functionality of > fproxy, rather it should be viewed as an alternative to fproxy for "casual" > users of Freenet (as opposed to those interested in aiding the Freenet > development effort). FProxy will remain for those who prefer it, or > require functionality not provided by the new UI. > > The new UI will also provide a front-end for FreeTalk, although this is not > shown in the mock-up. Similarly, it will provide access to settings, but > only those likely to be useful to "casual" users. > > Feedback is welcome of course. > > Ian. New UI? Huh? What is it supposed to be? A fproxy theme? I don't think we have the time for implementing anything besides new themes before 0.8 we need to fix too many issues. I also haven't heard anything about a new Freetalk UI? :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Some (very) preliminary mock-ups of new UI
On Saturday 06 February 2010 23:16:20 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:03 PM, xor wrote: > > New UI? Huh? What is it supposed to be? A fproxy theme? > > No, it will be based on GWT, and it will run along-side FProxy. It will > not provide all the functionality of FProxy, the primary goal is to provide > a user-friendly interface for "casual" users. So you are talking about the web-pushing branch from SoC? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Migration issues: do we want https://downloads and https://emu ?
On Wednesday 03 February 2010 19:16:56 Matthew Toseland wrote: > We have SSL certs for https://downloads and https://emu. The update scripts > use these if sha1test.jar doesn't exist or is too out of date i.e. if the > install is a relatively old one and hasn't been updated with the script in > a while. We only have 2 IP addresses at the moment, and SSL domains need a > dedicated IP address (unless you have a wildcard cert, which we can't > afford). Do we want to ask for another 2 IP addresses for https://downloads > and https://emu ? IMHO https://downloads might conceivably be useful, but > https://emu would be likely purely for purposes of compatibility with old > update scripts. > > Extra IP addresses cost a very small amount, and we know how to set them > up, so I guess that would be the easiest solution? > > The old update.cmd from the java installer uses: > http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/installer/sha1test.jar > (This is not a problem) > The old update.sh from the java installer uses: > https://emu.freenetproject.org/sha1test.jar > (This IS a problem) > The old update.cmd from the windows installer uses: > https://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/installer/sha1test.jar > (This is also a problem) > > All of these have been updated to > http[s]://checksums.freenetproject.org/latest/sha1test.jar > > How important is it to support old update.sh / update.cmd ? And is it worth > having https://downloads.freenetproject.org/ for its own sake? Well, the easiest way of answering this question was if you told us when the update-script was changed to work with the current situation. This is probably a matter of reading the commit history / file dates? If 3 month old scripts won't work then we should fix it. If 1 year old scripts will still work then its okay to forget about the older scripts... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Some (very) preliminary mock-ups of new UI
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 23:30:03 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:20 PM, xor wrote: > > On Saturday 06 February 2010 23:16:20 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:03 PM, xor wrote: > > > > New UI? Huh? What is it supposed to be? A fproxy theme? > > > > > > No, it will be based on GWT, and it will run along-side FProxy. It will > > > not provide all the functionality of FProxy, the primary goal is to > > > > provide > > > > > a user-friendly interface for "casual" users. > > > > So you are talking about the web-pushing branch from SoC? > > It may use some of that code, but it won't be based on that. > Well, it wouldn't be wise to throw away the code if you're planning to do something based on GWT because web-pushing is already based on it :| Who is supposed to implement it if it should be new? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Freetalk status update (interesting!)
Hi, I have the feeling that I have sorted out the score-calculation issues with WoT so WoT is basically almost finished, there is only some pre-release refactoring left to do. Because we want to get out WoT ASAP (due to FlogHelper needing it) and it will be marked as final, not beta, on the plugins page I have thought a bit about the effects of the release: We will have to mention that applications which use WoT are FlogHelper and Freetalk. IF we mention Freetalk, hundreds of people will try it out. Because we will have a message-purge of Freetalk when leaving the beta phase (this was always said in a big red box on the Freetalk web interface so please do not complain) we should do the purge ASAP so that not too many messages are lost. Right now there is not much content on Freetalk and the useful content has been added to the bugtracker already so purging is still okay. However, if we purge after having released WoT on the plugins page then we will piss hundreds of people off probably. So my conclusion is that it would be very very good to release WoT and Freetalk together (and purge the message base before). Because I have delayed the release of WoT over and over again to fix critical issues I'm aware of the fact that I cannot demand a large delay yet once again. So my goal is to get Freetalk done ASAP so we can deploy it as "beta" together with WoT. I have found a solution for being able to do this. Lets first consider what prevented me from voting for deployment as soon as WoT is done: Two things: Pending structural database changes and the lack of the ability of specifying board descriptions. The issues are crucial because: - The database changes are needed for stability. They are maximal 1-2 days of work so they are not the problem. - Because we will purge the messages anyway it is necessary to provide a very clean list of default boards after that. The default boards are very important because newbies need a good starting point of interesting content. And one of the core issues with non-moderated forums on Freenet is that people tend to use bad board names, bad board categories and creating zillions of multiple boards for the same topic. So the default boards should be good for the first time usage experience. And they should also have proper descriptions. Descriptions should be implemented as a voting mechanism though: If you have not specified your own description, the description which the most people have specified should be displayed. This is rather a larger piece of work to implement so my conclusion was that I cannot demand that WoT deployment is postponed until I'm done with it. So to come back to what I wanted to say: The solution for this problem is a rather nasty hack but it will be acceptable: I will just hardcode a list of descriptions for the default boards, and nevertheless add a "Edit description" button to the web interface and explain that editing is not yet possible but will be implemented soon. I guess most users will be fine with that and it allows me to get Freetalk done within the next few days so we can ship it together with WoT and officially start telling people that we are out of the testing phase of Freetalk in which messages could be lost. So people can actually start using it and be sure that their messages will be readable by future versions. Now does that sound like a good deal? =) Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] False Kaspersky positives on Windows
On Monday 18 January 2010 09:57:35 Christian Funder Sommerlund (Zero3) wrote: > I'm not sure which is most likely. What do we do now? Contact Kaspersky > and ask them to fix their stuff? Or just directly warn users not to use > Freenet with Kaspersky? We have to contact Kaspersky. Has anybody done that? xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freetalk status update (interesting!)
Further, I also just saw that SDiZ has set up a github-log-bot in Freetalk now which logs git commit messages to freenet-projects (via a NNTP client). So as soon as Freetalk is official toad might even consider to post his code- review-messages on Freetalk instead of on the mailing lists. Given the fact that we currently do not have any bot which posts commits to mailing lists this is actually very useful I guess. And it will boost our project's transparency very much. Nice, thank you SDiZ! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freetalk status update (interesting!)
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 17:46:31 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:13 AM, xor wrote: > > Because we will have a message-purge of Freetalk when leaving the beta > > phase (this was always said in a big red box on the Freetalk web > > interface so please do not complain) we should do the purge ASAP so that > > not too many messages are lost. Right now there is not much content on > > Freetalk and the useful content has been added to the bugtracker already > > so purging is still okay. > > What is the benefit of doing a purge? I hope you're not doing it just > because you said you would, rather than for some concrete technical reason. > > Ian. To get rid of all the mess in the boards list with multiple boards for the same purpose, bad hierarchy etc. and get rid of broken messages, trust lists (self referential trust values), corrupted databases, etc. Just start over clean. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freetalk status update (interesting!)
On Thursday 11 February 2010 20:41:23 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:22 PM, xor wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 February 2010 17:46:31 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > What is the benefit of doing a purge? I hope you're not doing it just > > > because you said you would, rather than for some concrete technical > > > > reason. > > > > > > To get rid of all the mess in the boards list with multiple boards for > > the same purpose, bad hierarchy etc. and get rid of broken messages, > > trust lists (self referential trust values), corrupted databases, etc. > > Just start over clean. > > Fair enough, I guess its like removing a bandaid, best to do it soon and > fast. > Yes. I'm working on it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Splitfiles
First of all, I like your calculations very much and I wonder why nobody calculated this before FEC was implemented. If I understood this correctly then a 700mib file with block success rate p=0.58 will have a 48% total success chance. This sucks... On Saturday 13 February 2010 20:09:46 Evan Daniel wrote: > For files of 20 segments (80 MiB) or more, we move to the > double-layered interleaved scheme. I'm working on the interleaving > code still (it isn't optimal for all numbers of data blocks yet). The > simple segmenting scheme is better for smaller files, and the > interleaved scheme for large ones. At 18 segments, the segmentation > does better. By 20 segments, the interleaved code is slightly better. > By 25 segments, the difference is approaching a 1.5x reduction in > failure rates. (Details depend on block success rate. I'll post them > on the bug report shortly.) > I wonder why you do not want the interleaved scheme for all multi-segment files? Why the arbitrary choice of 80 MiB files? It would suck if then people started to artificially bloat 50MiB files up to 80MiB to improve their success rates... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Splitfiles
On Sunday 14 February 2010 01:00:16 xor wrote: > > I wonder why you do not want the interleaved scheme for all multi-segment > files? Why the arbitrary choice of 80 MiB files? > > It would suck if then people started to artificially bloat 50MiB files up > to 80MiB to improve their success rates... Oh I guess the answer was in your original message: > For files of 20 segments (80 MiB) or more, we move to the > double-layered interleaved scheme. I'm working on the interleaving > code still (it isn't optimal for all numbers of data blocks yet). The > simple segmenting scheme is better for smaller files, and the > interleaved scheme for large ones. At 18 segments, the segmentation > does better. By 20 segments, the interleaved code is slightly better. > By 25 segments, the difference is approaching a 1.5x reduction in > failure rates. (Details depend on block success rate. I'll post them > on the bug report shortly.) ... Another question: Will you implement code to dynamically decide based on filesize how much amount of interleaving is needed? So that we do not have to modify anything even if people start inserting 1 TiB files? - It doesn't seem wise to have any assumptions on maximal file size as it changes over the years. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New filename sanitiser: 506944c538a2463e60a83b36e29d13487dd09150
On Wednesday 17 February 2010 18:21:59 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> + private static final boolean operatingSystemIsWindows() { // TODO: Move
> to the proper class + try {
> + return
> System.getProperty("os.name").toLowerCase().indexOf("win") >= 0;
> + } catch(Throwable t) {
> + return true;// :)
> + }
> + }
>
> IMHO this is dodgy, other OSs might have "win" in them. Normally we just
> check if File.separator is "\".
Generally if we're not on Windows then more characters are allowed in filenames
so false positives are better than false negatives.
> I am not convinced that the rest of the change is a good idea. For example
> allowing HTML markup in filenames might combine with sloppy code to cause
> problems. Allowing % in url's might again cause issues. Allowing pipes, <>,
> and spaces might cause problems with filenames copied to a shell. I guess
> it should depend on the configuration i.e. how paranoid the user is.
I think you're being too paranoid here. Filenames are like one of the first
things which are implemented in a new operating system, if any operating
system is exploitable only via special characters in filenames then it is not
our problem. And we should just fix our % encoder instead of being paranoid
about problems with it. I guess I will have a look at it now
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Re: [freenet-dev] New filename sanitiser: 506944c538a2463e60a83b36e29d13487dd09150
On Wednesday 17 February 2010 19:45:27 Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Matthew Toseland
>
> wrote:
> > + private static final boolean operatingSystemIsWindows() { //
> > TODO: Move to the proper class + try {
> > + return
> > System.getProperty("os.name").toLowerCase().indexOf("win") >= 0; +
> > } catch(Throwable t) {
> > + return true;// :)
> > + }
> > + }
> >
> > IMHO this is dodgy, other OSs might have "win" in them. Normally we just
> > check if File.separator is "\".
> >
> > I am not convinced that the rest of the change is a good idea. For
> > example allowing HTML markup in filenames might combine with sloppy code
> > to cause problems. Allowing % in url's might again cause issues. Allowing
> > pipes, <>, and spaces might cause problems with filenames copied to a
> > shell. I guess it should depend on the configuration i.e. how paranoid
> > the user is.
>
> Similarly, as I've mentioned on IRC, I think we should take a set of
> characters that will work on all common OSes (modern Windows, Linux,
> OSX, BSDs) and filter to that regardless of host OS, and that we
> should filter both on upload and download. This would make it vastly
> simpler to have one person upload a file, and then have a second
> download it and re-upload it and produce the same key. Inserts of the
> same file that produce different keys is going to be a continuing
> problem in making file sharing work well. Obviously as long as we
> include the filename in the metadata it's not completely solvable, but
> we can at least try to avoid making the problem any worse.
I agree that we need re-inserts to work. It was one of my goals with the new
sanitizer: The old one removed very common characters such as brackets. And as
it is only being used when downloading files and not when inserting them,
people who have downloaded an affected file could not reinsert it without
renaming (which nobody will do).
However, we cannot have a strict list of forbidden characters which is applied
for all operating systems because some OS forbid very common and useful
characters: Windows for example does not allow the question mark "?" in
filenames. This sucks. What would be acceptable is to have a config option
"Remove problematic characters from filenames when downloading and uploading
files" and have it enabled by default. This should as the name says also change
the current behavior to also sanitize filenames before uploading.
I don't really know how to properly implement configuration options in fred but
I could write the sanitizing code ... maybe someone can implement the config
option for me?
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Re: [freenet-dev] Memory usage and freenet [commit: 3c02c397bfea7418d5d311ba481c3b3c7df96e2e by xor]
On Thursday 18 February 2010 09:26:55 Daniel Cheng wrote: > Hi all, > > Do we still concern memory usage? > I am seeing the memory usage of freenet climb higher and higher in > recently release. > It is no longer possible to run a node in an 128m memory box. > > With 3c02c397bfea7418d5d311ba481c3b3c7df96e2e, may I say the > promise/envision of low-memory/embeded usage dead/failed ? Incrementing a 4 KiB buffer to 32 KiB won't hurt anyone, will it? If the JVM is smart then it will usually even use the stack for this. - I incremented it because very small buffers usually cause low throughput especially when used with harddisks. We can meet in the middle at 16 KiB if you really have a problem with it :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New filename sanitiser: 506944c538a2463e60a83b36e29d13487dd09150
On Thursday 18 February 2010 19:46:05 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > we can at least try to avoid making the problem any worse.
> >
> > I agree that we need re-inserts to work. It was one of my goals with the
> > new sanitizer: The old one removed very common characters such as
> > brackets. And as it is only being used when downloading files and not
> > when inserting them, people who have downloaded an affected file could
> > not reinsert it without renaming (which nobody will do).
> >
> > However, we cannot have a strict list of forbidden characters which is
> > applied for all operating systems because some OS forbid very common and
> > useful characters: Windows for example does not allow the question mark
> > "?" in filenames. This sucks. What would be acceptable is to have a
> > config option "Remove problematic characters from filenames when
> > downloading and uploading files" and have it enabled by default. This
> > should as the name says also change the current behavior to also sanitize
> > filenames before uploading.
>
> As I understand it your code does not remove : ? etc on Windows, it only
> removes stuff that cannot be represented in ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8 or whatever
> the default is.
Of course it does:
"if(onWindowsOS &&
StringValidityChecker.isWindowsReservedFilenameCharacter(c))
sb.append(' ');"
(windowsReservedFilenameCharacters = new HashSet(Arrays.asList(
new Character[] { '/', '\\', '?', '%', '*', ':', '|',
'\"', '<', '>'}));
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Re: [freenet-dev] New filename sanitiser: 506944c538a2463e60a83b36e29d13487dd09150
On Friday 19 February 2010 11:25:26 VolodyA! V Anarhist wrote: > Also keep in mind contextual problems. A full stop '.', for example, is > allowed in Windows, but not if it's the last character in the file name (if > you have dual boot try to add . at the end of the filename in a real os, > and then open in in windows, it will tell you file doesn't exist. > > - Volodya Sure? To which windows' does this apply? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New filename sanitiser: 506944c538a2463e60a83b36e29d13487dd09150
On Friday 19 February 2010 14:24:14 Daniel Cheng wrote: > : is reserved in macos too > > / is reserved in many unix filesystem. > ... I added code to handle this: http://github.com/freenet/fred- staging/blob/8d8c53866b681152a7a293a6814f6ed18310d5c4/src/freenet/support/io/FileUtil.java http://github.com/freenet/fred- staging/blob/8d8c53866b681152a7a293a6814f6ed18310d5c4/src/freenet/support/StringValidityChecker.java signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New filename sanitiser: 506944c538a2463e60a83b36e29d13487dd09150
On Wednesday 17 February 2010 23:33:22 Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 5:26 PM, xor wrote:
> > On Wednesday 17 February 2010 19:45:27 Evan Daniel wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Matthew Toseland
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >> > + private static final boolean operatingSystemIsWindows() { //
> >> > TODO: Move to the proper class + try {
> >> > + return
> >> > System.getProperty("os.name").toLowerCase().indexOf("win") >= 0; +
> >> > } catch(Throwable t) {
> >> > + return true;// :)
> >> > + }
> >> > + }
> >> >
> >> > IMHO this is dodgy, other OSs might have "win" in them. Normally we
> >> > just check if File.separator is "\".
> >> >
> >> > I am not convinced that the rest of the change is a good idea. For
> >> > example allowing HTML markup in filenames might combine with sloppy
> >> > code to cause problems. Allowing % in url's might again cause issues.
> >> > Allowing
> >> > pipes, <>, and spaces might cause problems with filenames copied to a
> >> > shell. I guess it should depend on the configuration i.e. how paranoid
> >> > the user is.
> >>
> >> Similarly, as I've mentioned on IRC, I think we should take a set of
> >> characters that will work on all common OSes (modern Windows, Linux,
> >> OSX, BSDs) and filter to that regardless of host OS, and that we
> >> should filter both on upload and download. This would make it vastly
> >> simpler to have one person upload a file, and then have a second
> >> download it and re-upload it and produce the same key. Inserts of the
> >> same file that produce different keys is going to be a continuing
> >> problem in making file sharing work well. Obviously as long as we
> >> include the filename in the metadata it's not completely solvable, but
> >> we can at least try to avoid making the problem any worse.
> >
> > I agree that we need re-inserts to work. It was one of my goals with the
> > new sanitizer: The old one removed very common characters such as
> > brackets. And as it is only being used when downloading files and not
> > when inserting them, people who have downloaded an affected file could
> > not reinsert it without renaming (which nobody will do).
> >
> > However, we cannot have a strict list of forbidden characters which is
> > applied for all operating systems because some OS forbid very common and
> > useful characters: Windows for example does not allow the question mark
> > "?" in filenames. This sucks. What would be acceptable is to have a
> > config option "Remove problematic characters from filenames when
> > downloading and uploading files" and have it enabled by default. This
> > should as the name says also change the current behavior to also sanitize
> > filenames before uploading.
> >
> > I don't really know how to properly implement configuration options in
> > fred but I could write the sanitizing code ... maybe someone can
> > implement the config option for me?
>
> That config option sounds like an entirely reasonable approach to me.
I will write the backend sanitize() function for it and toad will wire it in.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Time to say good-bye (to the Freenet community)
On Saturday 20 February 2010 15:48:53 Daniel Cheng wrote: > Dear list, > > As of 20th Feb, 2010 2pm GMT, my Samsung 80GB harddisk, after four > years of services, have finally come to dead. These days I'm surprised if a hard disk actually lasts that long. For me they die after ~1-2 years usually. I use them in RAID5 with 24h uptime though… > I think this is the > right time for me to withdraw from the freenet community completely. > > If you have a good memory, around 1.5 years ago, my computer suffered > from a motherboard failure. Since then, I have much less involvement > in the development. --- The fact is, I was, at the time, struggling to > spend more time on reading bible and serving my Lord. I prayed my > Lord, and the motherboard fails. I took this as a sign for me to > involve less in this project. I would have taken it as a sign that its time to reward yourself with a shiny new computer for your hard work! No matter what religion one believes in, I think we all can share the idea that whoever god might be or not be, he/she/it probably would not want us to always see things/understand his messages in a destructive/negative way but rather a positive/constructive one. > Yesterday night, I was praying, again, for the forgiveness of my sin. > I said to my Lord that, if he see fit, take away the computer so I > won't have it as my idol. And, yea, the computer die. Now, I don't > have any computer powerful enough to run freenet. Then why didn't the AC/DC converter die and kill everything? Why just the hard disk? Maybe this is a sign that you should start with a new computer instead of throwing everything away? :) Think positive. > Sorry xor, I can't continue the freenet-git bot. I do have some backup > of that piece of code, but I don't have any spare harddisk for > restoring it. If you found that too important, I may ask my friends > help me to restore them. I would be very glad to get my hands on it as I consider it as a very good idea for development to be reviewed on Freenet by the community. In fact, we do not have public commit messages on the mailing lists anymore so we actually need something like it to get more reviewing. Lack of reviewing = bad code quality. I would probably host it on my node as the node is high uptime and high power anyway =) How did your harddisk die? Full mechanical, hearable failure? Electronical failure, i.e. not being recognized by the BIOS anymore? Or is it just dead sectors? If its dead sectors you should just try to copy all files from it and skip the ones with dead sectors... if its electronical failure: There's this "trick" which people say that it often works: Get a hard disk of exactly the same model which is still working and exchange the electronics. You might write the model number here so I can check my dead-HD stack for one. And you said that you don't have any other harddisk to use now: I can send you 2 disks from my harddisk stack in the cellar so you can run RAID1 =) You'll also get a German beer with them if there is enough room in the box maybe :) You might consider this as a sign for continuing as I normally would not do this because I'm rather short on money and hardware and stuff but if you continue I would :) Really, I would be sad if you really left, your code reviews have been of high quality and useful to me. I haven't read much of your commits but I guess they also were :) Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Time to say good-bye (to the Freenet community)
I thought a bit more about this and it came to my mind that you might just be tired of the work on Freenet. If you just don't feel like working on it anymore you should be aware of the fact that nobody will be angry if you just quit without any reason =) I don't want to persuade you to continue, I just don't want you to quit if its only a problem of getting some hardware... we all got a stack of mainboards and disks and stuff which we could donate :) Greetings and thanks, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New gpg key
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 21:55:55 Matthew Toseland wrote: > This message is signed with my new gpg key. This is used for my emails and > for signing many downloads. The old key frequently got bad signature errors > because it was set to use SHA1 but it was using SHA256 as per my config > (since SHA1 is known broken). Please could somebody who has been seeing bad > signatures verify this one? Thanks. After it has confirmed to work please tell us where we can get a copy of the new key which is signed by the old one... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Coding standards?
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 20:48:39 Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Thursday 25 February 2010 21:11:33 Evan Daniel wrote: > > Are there official coding standards for Freenet? I've noticed a > > number of commits (and reverts) lately that make me think we should > > have a (brief!) set. > > > > Specifically: > > > > Are we using Java 1.5 or 1.6? I thought I recalled that we used 1.6, > > but compiled for 1.5. But I could well be completely misremembering > > that. Personally, I think we should switch to 1.6 completely. > > There's Free support for it, and Sun ended support for 1.5 on Nov 3 > > 2009. > > How good is the Free support for Java 1.6? Does Classpath/GCJ/Kaffe support > it? They run on a much wider range of systems than OpenJDK e.g. embedded > stuff. Fred probably still does not work with them anyway signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Summer of Code 2010
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 19:44:58 Matthew Toseland wrote: > We have applied for Google Summer of Code 2010. Who wants to be a mentor? Is there any information available on the things which a mentor should do and which he does not have to do? I want to spend as much time as possible on FT/WoT so I probably should not be a mentor, on the other hand if a GSoC student would do a WoT/FT project I probably should be the mentor.. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Google Summer of Code: Mentors needed!
On Friday 19 March 2010 12:18:20 am Matthew Toseland wrote: > We are accepted into Google Summer of Code 2010. We need mentors. Please > let me know if you are willing to mentor one or more students. Thanks. > If a student wants to do WoT/Freetalk stuff then I will definitely help him. But actually I might want to become a GSoC student myself maybe Have not been one and it would probably push my productivity to have deadlines and stuff. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Gsoc project inquiry
On Saturday 20 March 2010 02:12:29 pm Ashish Mittal wrote: > I would be glad if anyone could suggest me some ideas what freenet > community might be pondering upon as this years projects. If you want to do a new feature you should read the Wiki page which Evan has told you about. If you're open to anything - I've just been wondering whether it would be acceptable as a GSoC project to write a large bunch of unit tests? It would be really useful to have more of them because the core devs are usually too busy for writing tests :| Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] GSoC organization profile needs to be "completed"
We're listed as "These organizations have been accepted into Google Summer of Code 2010, but they have not yet completed their organization profile." - i.e. we have not filled in information in their web app ... whoever has the access to do that should do it... http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git tree weirdness in WoT
On Monday 29 March 2010 06:46:56 pm Ximin Luo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> xor, it looks like you cherry-picked saces' commits from his personal
> branch "saces" on top of Bombe's "identicon" branch, instead of on top of
> the old "master" branch. and for some reason the new "master" branch now
> points to this ("identicon" plus some of saces' commits).
I thought I had:
- used "git fetch git://bombe-repository-uri identicon" to get bombe's
identicon branch
- used "git merge identicon" to merge it to master
- used git fetch to get saces' branch (called saces aswell)
- used git cherrypick to cherrypick commits from saces' branch
My intention was to use the identicon branch directly from bombe instead of
importing it from saces own branch, for the sake of using it from where it
came from originally.
Unfortunately, this was my first complex git operation so it may very well be
screwed up
Can someone help us how to fix this? I don't know :(
And I would like to know how I should have done it because the same operations
have to be done for Freetalk... there are bombe and saces branches there
aswell...
> This effectively cancels all the work on the master branch from feb 16 to
> feb 26. Was this intended? If you can't fix it I can, but I'll need to
> make some forced pushes.
No :(
Why does it? :(
> see diagram for a better explanation
>
> http://github.com/freenet/plugin-WoT-staging/network
>
> X
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Re: [freenet-dev] [GSoC 2010] - Transport plug-ins
On Tuesday 30 March 2010 01:07:21 pm Pratibha Sundar wrote: > I'm interested in the Transport plug-ins project. Please tell me whom to > contact for further information. Just ask here and people will answer. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] responses to WoT/search questions
On Wednesday 31 March 2010 06:32:58 am Evan Daniel wrote: > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Ximin Luo wrote: > > have you joined the freenet-dev mailing list? in future i'd like to have > > these discussions there so that other people can see it too. > > > > (03:53:26) lusha: hi, can i ask a question about WOT? > > (03:55:33) evanbd: No need to ask permission :) > > (03:56:12) lusha: is there any document for this? > > (03:56:32) lusha: i dont quite understand how they evaluate trust > > > > (i think) WoT uses a flow-based metric similar to advogato > > (www.advogato.org) - see the source code (plugin-WoT-staging), or ask p0s > > on IRC (xor on the mailing list) for specific details. atm the > > implementation requires retrieving trust scores for everyone on the > > network, which won't scale in the long run. > > No. The current WoT code is neither flow-based nor particularly > related to the Advogato algorithm. It's purely alchemical, having > neither a proper specification as to the problem being solved nor any > sort of theoretical basis to believe it solves that unspecified > problem. That is true. I should finally do this and answer to your mail w.r.t. to your prosed alternative algorithm. I'm sorry,I'm just trying to make everyone happy. People want a release of FT/WoT soon so as long as I didn't have much time/day I was trying to spend it on writing code. BUT we should also state that the algorithm itself fortunately is only a small part of WoT. Most of the work which is required for a working WoT was writing the class architecture, the captcha stuff, the FCP stuff, adding proper synchronization and general glue code. Those are all done and they work. So now we have a proper "nest" for embedding any proper trust/score-based algorithm in. > Retrieving trust lists for large numbers of nodes should scale fairly > well, as long as the updates can be slow. IMHO the only real problem > presented is startup for a new user (downloading a few tens of MiB of > scores might take a little while). Specifically, I don't think the > scaling problem is any different or worse than the scaling problem > inherent in trying to retrieve messages from that many users. And, > whether it's a problem or not, there are *vastly* more important > things to worry about than what to do once we have 1M users -- like > how to get that many users in the first place. That sort of scaling > problem gets put in the "nice problems to have" category in my book. It can also easily be cut down to logarithmic complexity by only downloading trust lists from identities which are directly trusted and from their trustees... I'll do that as soon as Freetalk is deployed and the core features are working. > Evan Daniel > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] When can we make Freetalk semi-official
On Friday 21 May 2010 09:30:30 pm you wrote: > It's been an awful long time since we've had a good chat system. When can > we make Freetalk semi-official? It doesn't need to be perfect, IMHO it > doesn't even need all the FIXMEs fixed: We can warn users about it on the > web interface. It's been essentially usable for very many months. > > Ian is very anxious about this, and I share his concerns. As far as I can > see it would be reasonable to add it to the dropdown in 1248, as soon as > you've fixed the NPE problem. Then when you've fixed all the fixme's, we > can remove the warning, and when we're really sure we can bundle it. > I have already moved ALL stuff to target version 0.2 which is not cruicial, what is left als FIXME is ONLY critical bugs. Even though it seems usable, they must be fixed. For example what needs to be implemented: - Size limits for various stuff in the XML, to prevent DoS - Storage of "UnwantedMessageLink" objects when messages are ignored due to trust settings. This is necessary if the messages should become visible again after you re-trust someone. - etc. There are 27 FIXME left and 22 bugtracker entries. You should notice that about a month ago it were >90 FIXME! :) I'm working for ~2-3 hours on FT/day. I am working as fast as possible and I will postpone ~1/3 of the remaining FIXME to version 0.2. About 1/3 of them are just "rename this or that" and the remaining 1/3 is critical stuff. You should PLEASE trust me that its absolutely crucial that I review all of them because they are about DoS vulnerabilities and what is even more important database structural changes which would require us to write database-upgrade code when we don't fix them before the initial release - that would be additional work which I cannot spend on productivity! And further please trust me that I am trying to postpone ANYTHING which is not critical. Critical = DoS, Hidden messages, Structural database changes which would introduce much work in writing upgrade code. We are VERY close to release and IMHO close means right now that it is not possible to measure the time accurately and I won't give a number in days. Close means that there is a finite amount of critical bugs and I will try to fix them ASAP and then it is done. AND it will be rock solid by then! Not just "it works somehow! :) Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] When can we make Freetalk semi-official
> There are 27 FIXME left and 22 bugtracker entries. 17 bugtracker entries now. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] When can we make Freetalk semi-official
On Friday 21 May 2010 09:56:19 pm xor wrote: > - Storage of "UnwantedMessageLink" objects when messages are ignored due to > trust settings. This is necessary if the messages should become visible > again after you re-trust someone. (This only applies when you use multiple identities, with a single identity messages get re-fetched… Thats why I did not fix it yet. But still it should be done before release because it might introduce database structure changes which I cannot think of now) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] New Freetalk tag pushed
Called 2010-05-28. Contains a fix for the URI==null problem, a new MessageListFetcher which is much faster, various resolved FIXMEs, CPU-usage improvements, etc. Requires fred-staging Progess: 20 FIXME left, 16 bugtracker entries. About half of the FIXME are less than 5 minutes of work. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Should new format indexes be sorted by term or by term hash?
On Monday 31 May 2010 09:21:10 pm Matthew Toseland wrote: > > PRO: > Spreading stuff out would ensure that (more or less) all terms fall out at > the same rate, and would reduce the amount of rebalancing we have to do, > which should result in slightly fewer nodes being inserted on an update. > Isn't it good if rarely used stuff falls out quicker than the stuff with high demand? I have no clue of how all the spider/library stuff works though, I guess this is a question for Evan :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Munin plugins for Freenet
On Sunday 20 June 2010 01:53:05 pm Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > I wrote a few Munin plugins for Freenet for my own use: > > http://github.com/avar/munin-plugin-freenet > > Here's an example of them in use: > > http://munin.nix.is/nix.is/v.nix.is/index.html#freenet > > Maybe they'll be useful to other people too. Graphs could be VERY VERY useful to developers and testers especially because they allow easy identification of weird behavior. IMHO it is a shame that we did not implement them yet :| I'd appreciate it very much if you continued working on it and made it easy to set up (if it isn't already? have not checked)... you should write a guide probably. Thanks, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] USK bookmark updating is broken IMHO, anyone else observing the same?
Hey, toad did some major work on USK before 1255, maybe in 1254 or so, I cannot remember which one it was. I have the strong feeling that the current code does not cause "Bookmarked site updated" notifications for every update which happens to a Freesite - I have observed that my node missed to tell me about an update for at least 2 different Freesites, for example toad's flog. If I browse to the Freesites the node DOES seem to show me the latest edition - it just doesn't notify me about it (even after having browsed to the latest edition there is no update notification). Does anyone else have the same feeling? Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Freetalk status update
Hi, I've finally managed to resolve all FIXME in the source code which are real work, now there are only pre-release "rename this to that" FIXME left (and a few in the NNTP server which I don't care about because the web-interface is more important). This means that most the remaining work which needs to be done before we can release Freetalk is visible to anyone who goes to the roadmap page of the Freetalk bugtracker: https://bugs.freenetproject.org/roadmap_page.php 16 issues are left there, most of them are a minor amount of work. (What is not in the bugtracker is the remaining e-mails from code review on the wot@ mailing list which I have to process, about 56 ... Aswell, those should be minor amounts of work each though) So now, we are REALLY getting close to release =) Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Local crypto issue - input?
On Thursday 29 July 2010 01:46:29 pm Matthew Toseland wrote: > block. We could also introduce a checksum if we wanted to. - What do other > apps do in the same situation? What does TrueCrypt do? Does it address > this issue? It doesn't have to deal with the filesystem issues but There is a mailing list called linux-crypto which is mostly related to loop- AES (was the best solution before dm-crypt...) ... It's a kernel driver for encrypting loopback devices which is typically used for encrypting disks. I can remember reading the phrase "IV" very often there, but I don't promise that this is right. I suggest you send a mail to Jari Ruusu He is the author of loop-AES and can explain you the different options. He seems to be competent in explaining even the most unlikely theoretical attacks - AFAIRC he criticized dm-crypt for some issues related to IVs ... You could also write to the linux-crypto mailing list, Jari is usually there http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-crypto signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Future of disk encryption in Freenet?
On Friday 30 July 2010 04:29:54 pm Matthew Toseland wrote: > > 1. Offer to turn on encrypted swap in the installer. Keep encrypting > everything. Warn users about saving files out, and media files, and work > towards playing media files in an embedded (e.g. java) player that doesn't > use plaintext temp files. Offering to reconfigure swap to be encrypted is out of scope. And not possible on Windows > 2. Give up on encrypting anything on disk, and > offer to install TrueCrypt if it isn't already installed. Offering TrueCrypt is out of scope I see a third option: 3. Realize that most users have a real LOAD of stuff on their hard disks which could get them screwed. Get rid of physical security. Encrypting the Freenet stuff does not help because they will use browsers which cache dangerous stuff and do downloads of dangerous stuff etc. The really paranoid ones will use TrueCrypt anyway. And encryption makes stuff slow. I mean it IS nice that we have a physical security level but I wouldn't have offered that feature from the beginning on. If you want to be safe when your computer gets seized you absolutely have to do full disk encryption, something will ALWAYS leak out otherwise. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Up to date index sites?
On Friday 30 July 2010 01:05:30 am Matthew Toseland wrote: > Any suggestions for what we should link to? It looks like both TUFI and the > Activelink Index sites have not been updated recently? Criteria: A site > must be useful for finding stuff on Freenet. It must be easy to use and > ideally have descriptions. It must not be likely to lead newbies to places > where they don't want to go without warning them i.e. it must must clearly > label evil content. > > We are #2 on Sourceforge's "What's Hot" for security on Linux. And we're > consistently rising at the moment. Have I missed a significant press > article? > Quoting from a Freetalk thread called: "Who do I have to kill to get on the front page?" noww...@w1-fyn8bktd3pcr5a-u1tszjps9yxm4iugvwgmzitrq.freetalk wrote: > The default index freesites provided with a fresh install of Freenet are mostly either dead or updated very infrequently. My own index site, Linkageddon (u...@isel-izgllc8sr~1rexqjz1lngliy-voonlwwoyagyq,xWfr4py0YZqAQSI- BX7bolDe-kI3DW~i9xHCHd-Bu9k,AQACAAE/linkageddon/34/) is updated once or twice a day and I do my best to make sure I have links to the latest editions of each site. I add sites as they are announced on Frost/FMS/Freetalk and pick up a few others from other indexes or crawlers. What do I have to do to get added to the front page? > > At the moment I don't filter the links, just the ActiveLinks, so you don't accidentally download any kiddie porn via an AL, but I can do a filtered version of the site if required, removing all the porn. I could perhaps filter out some other content if absolutely required, but bare in mind there will always be a link to the full fire hose version of Linkageddon so nothing is ever entirely inaccessible. I won't play censor, but am prepared to make it easier for people to not accidentally wander onto some nasty stuff unprepared and without warning. > > Let me know what is required. I think Freenet desperately needs an active index/link site on the front page and I think I can provide that. Seeing active indexes will encourage more users to create their own freesites if they know they are going to be supported and listed. > > You might also want to look at AFKIndex (u...@2l-k2u32b3yil2~yjbu7-- QJPTtixSwHZxYOuGjS3A0,QJBd6zpJgEsijJGQNNcwUhsrW5vJ8VtlmNX5ka2~dlU,AQACAAE/AFKindex/29/) which does a similar job. AFKIndex has categories, but as I link all sites on one page with descriptions I think searching is easier on my site and it's easier (IMHO) to see which sites have been updated recently. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Up to date index sites?
On Tuesday 03 August 2010 09:50:05 am xor wrote: > On Friday 30 July 2010 01:05:30 am Matthew Toseland wrote: > > Any suggestions for what we should link to? It looks like both TUFI and > > the Activelink Index sites have not been updated recently? Criteria: A > > site must be useful for finding stuff on Freenet. It must be easy to use > > and ideally have descriptions. It must not be likely to lead newbies to > > places where they don't want to go without warning them i.e. it must must > > clearly label evil content. > > > > We are #2 on Sourceforge's "What's Hot" for security on Linux. And we're > > consistently rising at the moment. Have I missed a significant press > > article? > > Quoting from a Freetalk thread called: > "Who do I have to kill to get on the front page?" > At the moment I don't filter the links, just the ActiveLinks, so you > don't > accidentally download any kiddie porn via an AL, but I can do a filtered > version of the site if required, removing all the porn. I could perhaps The non-activelink version looks better. I will tell him via Freetalk that he should provide a version of the non-activelink site which does not provide child porn so we can add it to the default bookmarks. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Up to date index sites?
On Tuesday 03 August 2010 12:54:52 pm Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Tuesday 03 August 2010 09:02:33 xor wrote: > > On Tuesday 03 August 2010 09:50:05 am xor wrote: > > > On Friday 30 July 2010 01:05:30 am Matthew Toseland wrote: > > > > Any suggestions for what we should link to? It looks like both TUFI > > > > and the Activelink Index sites have not been updated recently? > > > > Criteria: A site must be useful for finding stuff on Freenet. It must > > > > be easy to use and ideally have descriptions. It must not be likely > > > > to lead newbies to places where they don't want to go without warning > > > > them i.e. it must must clearly label evil content. > > > > > > > > We are #2 on Sourceforge's "What's Hot" for security on Linux. And > > > > we're consistently rising at the moment. Have I missed a significant > > > > press article? > > > > > > Quoting from a Freetalk thread called: > > > "Who do I have to kill to get on the front page?" > > > At the moment I don't filter the links, just the ActiveLinks, so you > > > don't > > > accidentally download any kiddie porn via an AL, but I can do a > > > filtered version of the site if required, removing all the porn. I > > > could perhaps > > > > The non-activelink version looks better. I will tell him via Freetalk > > that he should provide a version of the non-activelink site which does > > not provide child porn so we can add it to the default bookmarks. > > We cannot require the exclusion of child porn, or we will be forced to > exclude ALL illegal content. We must only choose indexes on the basis of > how useful they are for a new user trying to find stuff. That is our > policy. However, usefulness includes accurate labelling (and maybe > categorisation) and not accidentally running into something horrible. > I will forward that and notify you when he has replied. For now you might want to add only one of his indexes, they seem good and daily updates are VERY nice... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Short Freetalk status update
Hi folks, I didn't work on Freetalk on Sat/Mon/Tue because I am busy with reallife this week, I'll continue to work on it on Friday. Sorry. Progress is fine, bug tracker shows 12 entries left, most of them are minor stuff. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Short Freetalk status update
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 02:29:15 am Ian Clarke wrote: > Do you have an ETA for us? > > Ian. > <1 month. Whether it's 1 week or almost 4 I cannot tell. The problem is that I have mentioned times which we wrong too often and I wouldn't believe myself anymore :) I suggest you should follow the roadmap pages of WoT and Freetalk, what needs to be done for 0.1 is relevant and it is quite precise now that there are very few bugs there: https://bugs.freenetproject.org/roadmap_page.php For Freetalk there are 11 left, for WoT 6. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] FT status update
Hi folks, as I've said in my previous mail, I've been busy with reallife for the past week. This is now finally finished. I've continued to work on it today, did not commit the code yet because it is not done. Various of next steps will be: - Optimization of the computation of unfetched message list indexes: The numbers will be cached instead of being recalculated by expensive database queries every time. This will cut down FT speed up startup very much and maybe also cut down CPU usage. Even though I normally don't do optimizations yet because we are not in the optimization phase yet I'm still doing this because it is necessary, we cannot afford Freetalk startup to take minutes. - Wiring-in of the new language code list for board language codes - Designing a new default board list - Doing pre-release XML changes - Creation of a new test message base with the new language codes & default boards. Progress is fine, bugtracker entry count for FT is ~10. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] FT status update
On Wednesday 18 August 2010 06:26:58 pm Ian Clarke wrote: > Thanks for the update Xor, > > Our funding is running pretty low so I'd really like to get some kind of > major announcement out in the next week or two, and it would be great if a > public FreeTalk release could be part of that. > > Is that realistic? I've been playing with FreeTalk and it seems pretty > solid already from what I can tell. Next week is not realistic. I'm trying to hurry things up as much as I can. Please be patient. Tomorrow I will hopefully solve another 3-5 bugs in the bug tracker and commit a load of new code which I've written this week. Notice that I am not for a release now because there is stuff which needs to be done before we have a large userbase / message base because it would require very difficult database upgrade code. And especially the list of language codes for the board prefixes must be changed before we release so that people don't start posting in boards with obsolete language codes... But well, there are only 10 bugs left for the FT bug tracker, thats manageable and I am confident that we can release in the very near future. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] (Important) Freetalk status update
Hi folks, this update is personal, not technical. I wanted to tell you that the continuous patience I am demanding from you makes me feel very guilty to finish it ASAP. In fact every time someone asks "when?", which happens quite often nowadays, I feel ashamed that I'm unable to give you a precise date. I feel as obliged to finish Freetalk ASAP as I feel obliged to anything which is relevant in real life. Such as helping my friends out when they feel bad, which has happened quite often recently, or as helping my mother with repairing various stuff in her house related to basic equipment (electricity etc.). Freetalk is equal to those in my personal priorities and sometimes I even screwed up real life stuff because I couldn't quit writing code early enough. It is not just a project for me, it is MY project and I feel obliged to finish to for the community as soon as I can. I did not commit code this week yet because I have been feeling like shit and could not get much more than 4 hours of sleep even though I would have had the time to sleep as long as I need to. This might make you consider to have someone else finish it and release it, but I would like to admit that I have been feeling like shit very often for the past months due to many personal issues, and yet I managed to be sort of productive and write very much code. And therefore I feel confident that I can get my feet back on the ground during the next week and cut down lets say 5 of the remaining 10 bugtracker entries. Please believe me that I am trying to do my very best and that the project is very important to me personally. And please do not rush it out before I am confident that all issues have been fixed which would be VERY difficult to fix without breaking backward compatibility to old Freetalk and especially WoT databases. It would suck if the architecture of Freetalk and WoT stayed bad forever because architectural issues were not fixed before the official release. Fortunately there are very few architectural issues left. I have been continuously trying to discard ANY issues which do not fall into that category, there are 10 issues left in the bugtracker, and I will try to get rid of even more which are not absolutely crucial. Notice also that I gave my phone number to toad and if I should disappear from IRC for some days - which I absolutely do not plan to, it could only happen if I run into a bus - he can feel free to call me and ask whats wrong and I can provide instructions on what has to be fixed before release. But please ask me before releasing it =) It is also written down in the bugtracker though. I hope that this mail helped you understand whats up and I hope that the community can forgive me for my totally wrong estimations of when it would be done. Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] FT status update
On Friday 20 August 2010 05:46:26 am Ian Clarke wrote: > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM, xor wrote: > > Next week is not realistic. I'm trying to hurry things up as much as I > > can. Please be patient. Tomorrow I will hopefully solve another 3-5 bugs > > in the bug > > tracker and commit a load of new code which I've written this week. > > > > Notice that I am not for a release now because there is stuff which needs > > to be > > done before we have a large userbase / message base because it would > > require > > very difficult database upgrade code. > > > > And especially the list of language codes for the board prefixes must be > > changed before we release so that people don't start posting in boards > > with obsolete language codes... > > > > But well, there are only 10 bugs left for the FT bug tracker, thats > > manageable > > and I am confident that we can release in the very near future. > > Ok. It would be extremely useful if you could commit to some specific date > by which FreeTalk will be ready. I know that people hate committing to > dates for things, especially when they are volunteering their efforts, but > there are legitimate reasons why it would be extremely helpful to have a > reasonably solid timeline if we are to generate significant publicity > around the release. > Even if you were to just give 3 estimates, optimistic, realistic, and > pessimistic. > > Also, are all 10 remaining bugs likely to break backward compatibility in a > way that requires that we delay until they are all resolved? > > Ian. > I have written a detailed mail which can be considered as a reply to this even though it does not contain a date, see: [freenet-dev] (Important) Freetalk status update I don't want to do estimates right now because I have had only 4 hours of sleep today, I will try to do an estimate tomorrow if I get enough sleep today.. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] More secure announcement protocol???
On Friday 27 August 2010 12:22:05 am Matthew Toseland wrote: > Currently, an attacker can run a malicious seednode, send us it, and then > get connected to a large proportion of new nodes, use bogus identities to > keep connections to the node, and observe their traffic. He is limited > mainly by resources - does he have the ability to connect to all those > nodes for long enough to identify whether they are interesting? For > hit-and-run, an important use case that Freenet has never been any good at > but which is very interesting in practice, he wouldn't necessarily have to > keep connections open long term either... > > We can of course increase costs by requiring nodes to be on different /8's > or /16's etc, but this only slightly increases costs. Some sort of onion > routing involving peers found via different seednodes would be possible, > but clunky as later on seednodes don't really matter, and extremely > expensive. I disagree. It would make the stuff a lot more annoying to set up and it would be easy to implement. OTOH it might seriously screw performance because it would probably cause peers to be chosen from bad locations internet-topology-wise: Countries like germany have *HUGE* ISPs which resell their infrastructure to smaller ISPs so most german users will probably be in same subnet of some order. (I have not checked whether that actually is the case, I'm guessing) ... If we limit connections based on subnets, peers might always be chosen from different ISPs, leading to bad performance... Maybe the set of possible peers could even get exhausted... > Taking Tor's approach and having a large list of automatically gathered > seeds, and only giving a subset to each announcee, doesn't really solve > the problem either: The attacker can simply run loads of slow seeds. It would be very useful to have though, given the fact that we have very few seed nodes and each of them is under very heavy load. My seednode is constantly seeding 180 peers. We could even change fred's behavior to auto-enable seednode mode if the node detects that - its opennet port is open - it's IP stays constant for >N days OR it has a constant host name (=dyndns) That would probably give us a load of seednodes, which would certainly help security AND improve the announcement speed because the seednodes would not be under very heavy load. This would also help the first time usage experience. AND it would cut down our seednodes.fref manual maintenance cost to 0. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] US government tries to bring back the Clipper Chip - on steroids
Well, it does sound insane. Insane proposals DO appear in politics, but luckily it doesn't mean that they will get through. And I doubt it. No time to panic yet IMHO. For US citizens, it is time to try preventing this from getting through though. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] French translation for 1277/1283
On Saturday 02 October 2010 07:34:31 pm 3BUIb3S50i wrote: > Why do you ignore french people? I will stop translate Freenet if you don't > apply the translation. > Toad has been quite busy with working on optimizing load management to improve the Freenet performance and I guess that he just forgot to wire it in. I can do it tomorrow. Please keep translating it :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Frequent Software Updates
If you want to get changelogs of the new builds, bookmark that USK: u...@bfa1vowr5puninsz5bgmqfwhkjtidbburoz0mybxseg,BOrxeLzUMb6R9tEZzexymY0zyKAmBNvrU4A9Q0tAqu0,AQACAAE/fullchangelog/1283 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] IRC meeting and agendas, RSVP ASAP
On Tuesday 12 October 2010 12:04:08 am Ximin Luo wrote: > I'd be happy with having this at any time, so I'm gonna randomly go say > this Thursday 7pm UTC (this is 8pm BST for us UK people). That time would be okay for me. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Time to make the "new wiki" the "wiki"
On Monday 18 October 2010 08:40:19 pm Ian Clarke wrote: > I think its time for the "new wiki" to become the "wiki", and the current > uneditable "wiki" to become the "old wiki". > > Any objections? I always appreciate if someone steps up to get something done. Do it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Suggestion for a new policy for new-version releases like 0.8
Hi, I hereby wave my "AS A LONG TERM VOLUNTEER I AM SEVERELY PISSED OFF"-joker, I really want this mail to get some attention: Some months ago I have reviewed over 500 issues (I guess its more like 1000, I stopped counting at 500) in the bugtracker to close as many as possible and assign target versions to as many as possible. Now some current statistics from the bug tracker: - Issues opened & resolved in the last N days: 30 days: opened 24, resolved 2 60 days: opened 70, resolved 12 90 days: opened 99, resolved 18 - Total open issues: 1578 - Average open time of ALL resolved issues: 232 days !! - Issues with target version 0.8(-beta1) / on roadmap for 0.8: 411 And now have a look at the brand new "Roadmap" page in the wiki for 0.8: http://new-wiki.freenetproject.org/Roadmap/0.8 Does this look like 400 issues? NO. (To be honest it at least links to the roadmap page in the bugtracker which shows the 400 issues. At the bottom) And now guess which date is mentioned in the IRC meeting about the 0.8 release? NOVEMBER OR CHRISTMAS. It's IMPOSSIBLE to resolve 400 issues until then So people are planning to release 0.8 while IGNORING what our developers and users have flagged as important for 0.8 Now PLEASE don't say again that most of the issues are NOT important - this will only show that you are NOT properly using the bugtracker: IF you have read most of them, then WHY did you not change the target versions? This is a SHAME. And it really PISSES ME OFF. I have continuously asked you to process them toad and you keep stating that most of them are unimportant. IF they are unimportant then ASSIGN DIFFERENT TARGET VERSIONS PLEASE, instead of just IGNORING the bugtracker for MONTHS - which obviously is the fact if we consider the opened/resolved numbers for the past 90 days... This is NOT for the sake of satisfying me or annoying anyone, but for the sake of *professional* development: In a multi-(hundred?)-thousand lines of code project, it is IMPOSSIBLE to manage what has to be done WITHOUT a LIST of it. And this LIST is the BUGTRACKER. And the list is being IGNORED for months. Also, do not forget that you are stepping on the feet of our users if the average time of processing an issue is 230 days. They don't report issues so we can ignore them. Because I know that this email will not have any effect probably I suggest we change our policy for releasing new versions (version as in 0.7.5, 0.8, etc.) to: 1. ALL issues with the given target version in the bugtracker must be resolved, closed or assigned a different target version. NO release with a single open issues in the roadmap page (= with the given target version). 2. NO release if there are any issues with block/crash severity and no target version. They must be assigned a target version first, which will cause rule 1 to hit maybe. I think as a software project which involves MONEY from DONATIONS we can all agree that it is absolutely SANE to process all issues reported by our users (= DONORS and VOLUNTEERS) before releasing new versions and it is INSANE in terms of politeness and quality management that we keep releasing new versions for years without following the two rules which I just proposed. Also, the fact should be mentioned that most of our money comes from a single, large donor and I don't want to imagine what would happen if they looked at our bugtracker so we should really clean the damn thing up while nobody has noticed that we give a shit about bug reports. - I am damn serious when I say "INSANE", we are in the science & computer age and yet we don't do proper project management at all. We should try to behave like engineers and not like children who always just run towards the next most colorful piece of candy. (Which we do, we continuously keep implementing new stuff instead of fixing the old stuff because programming new stuff is fun) Greetings and sorry for being harsh - but I am running out of ideas how to enforce bugtracker usage :( - xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Suggestion for a new policy for new-version releases like 0.8
On Tuesday 19 October 2010 10:42:56 pm Samu Voutilainen wrote: > I would've replied at IRC; but tabcomplete didn't say anything... I'm called "p0s" on IRC. > I'm sorry that I, as complete outsider say this, but... I think most of > that misses the point. Using of capitilization means you are just shouting > and not thinking, using *this* to emphasize things is more effective. > As said, I do not want to annoy anyone, I just want to make my opinion very clear. I write pure ASCII mails so capslock is the best way of emphasizing words, read it more like bold please :) I have the desire for making it very clear because I have repeatedly been pointing this out on IRC for months without any effect and I am running out of ideas how to cause people to start taking care of the issues :( Greetings, xor signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] getting the bug tracker under control
On Thursday 21 October 2010 10:47:49 pm Ian Clarke wrote: > Obviously there is a lot of frustration about the bugtracker. I think the > root of this frustration is the following three problems: > > 1) A lack of consensus as to what means what (eg. does the mere presence of > an open bug imply that it must be fixed?) No, this is no problem. It is very clear in fact: - If something has target version == next version, it must be fixed OR assigned a different target version - If something has no target version, it must be reviewed and assigned one. If its not possible to assign one, it must be set to category "feature" since it is no bug then. > 2) A lack of consensus as to who is responsible for what (who decides what > must be fixed?) This is also a non issue. The person who is assigned the issue is responsible for getting it fixed ASAP. The community of the people who monitor the issue and respond it can influence the decision. If nobody gives a shit about commenting on the issue, the person who is assigned the issue can just dictate the decision. This is pragmatic and it works very well with projects based on volunteers: Anyone who steps up to get something done can decide about how to do it as long as nobody complains. > 3) The bugtracker is permitted to get out of sync with reality (caused by 1 > and 2) This is a symptom, and the cause is the real problem: Nobody USES the bugtracker. There is NO technical problem as the ones you have mentioned. The problem is pure LAZINESS. We can fight the problem by enforcing people to use it with the following policy for releasing new versions which I have proposed in the previous mail: 1. ALL issues with the given target version in the bugtracker must be resolved, closed or assigned a different target version. NO release with a single open issues in the roadmap page (= with the given target version). 2. NO release if there are any issues with block/crash severity and no target version. They must be assigned a target version first, which will cause rule 1 to hit maybe. Even if people abuse the rules and just change the target version of all issues they will at least have to look at them and feel the guilt of not dealing with them :) > > For 1), I think the best philosophy is to keep things as simple as > possible. What is the purpose of a bugtracker? > > I would say its as a record of what problems people have discovered, and > also a snapshot of what tasks must be completed in order to meet some > target event (currently the 0.8 release). I think these two roles get > confused - simply recording a problem should not immediately create an > expectation that it will be fixed. That determination should probably be > made only by someone actually willing and able to fix it. It should generate the expectation that somebody at least LOOKS AT IT. That is what is missing here: I've reviewed a shitload of issues, the result is that there are ~400 issues with target version 0.8 now, and people, especially toad, refuse to at least read them and decide about whether target version 0.8 makes sense or not. There is NO problem with open issues as long as they are reviewed and assigned a very far-in-the-future target version OR "priority = none", "severity = feature" THIS does not happen... bugs are not even being flagged as "this CAN stay open" > > I think we should probably try to have a weekly "bug-scrub", where we > quickly go through all outstanding bugs and confirm that any associated > metadata (time estimates, completion status, target milestone, assignee > etc) is correct. This process has worked well for me in other > environments, although they were commercial, not voluntary. As for > whether this should be over IRC, or perhaps over Skype I'm not sure, my > past experience it was all verbal and that seemed to work nicely. > This is a VERY bad idea: The meetings will take at least 1-2 hours of FUD wars & nonsense discussions where NO code is written at all. People do not write code during meetings. The effect of the meetings will be lots of wasted time which could have been spend at actually RESOLVING issues instead of just discussing about them. Because there IS nothing to discuss (!!), most issues are very easy to decide about when they should be done, the problem is that the actual programming does not happen. Especially on the minor issues... We have a shitload of minor bugs which each would only take 10-15 minutes of programming - It would be much more of a use if certain people (we know who I mean :) promised to spend a fixed amount of time (1 hour) per workday at working on issues on the roadmap page this would decrease the amount of minor, quick- fixable issues very fast. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[freenet-dev] New Freetalk JAR available, lots of bugfixes, less CPU usage
This JAR does not cause any database integrity problems for me in testing anymore, this means that all critical bugs seem resolved. So now I've moved on to doing the final refactoring which needs to be done for official WoT 0.4 / Freetalk 0.1 versions. Also, the primary cause of CPU usage has been optimized away, Freetalk should not require much CPU while idle now. Notice that this JAR will start with a blank message database yet once again due to architectural changes in the database format. When we're done with the beta-phase this will not happen anymore, it just makes no sense to write database-upgrade code during beta PLEASE report ANYTHING which is logged as ERROR from Freetalk or WoT. http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/plugins/Freetalk/Freetalk-2010-10-17-1- g4337a75d280056606a01c7fa2edf41cd8204b4ca.jar Latest WoT still is: http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/plugins/WoT/WoT-2010-07-30.jar Changes: Freetalk: 2010-10-17 - Show total downloaded messages on welcome page. - Make sure we delete ghosts which are only attached to other ghosts. - Clarify/simplify logic / rename variables. - Improve a thread name. - Check for a message being its own parent or thread in constructor. - A message used to be able to be its own thread. It can't any more. Update the unit tests. - Extra synchronization to fix deadlock (bug #4351). - Clobber the database - set version -83. - Major optimisation: IdentityStatistics: Caches the upper and lower indexes of a contiguous range (close to the end) of message list indexes that have not been fetched. - Wire in IdentityStatistics to MessageManager. - Add test in self-check logic for IdentityStatistics with identity null. (=> we deleted the identity without deleting the stats). - Improve a unit test by checking for FetchFailedMarker. - Synchronization changes in MessageManager. - Handle ALL_DATA_NOT_FOUND like DATA_NOT_FOUND. xor gerard_ (And TheSeeker as a notable tester) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
