Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Steve Dougherty]

On 07/13/2016 06:04 PM, Ryan Matthews wrote:
> This has been brought to my attention and I would like to get more
> information about what exactly you are looking for.
> I currently work, and sit, right next to Steve D at work which would make
> moving the process forward quicker if he can have ideas bounced off of him.

Being able to discuss in person seems like it would be very helpful in
communicating and refining ideas quickly.

> It is hard to give a quote without knowing everything you would like done.
> Based on the bullets I list below I would give an informal quote of $2500
> but that could change based on more information becoming available on what
> exact things you are hoping to achieve.

In general, a design that isn't cluttered or ideally resists becoming
cluttered somehow, because it's going to be subjected to the same forces
that resulted in this one becoming cluttered. Ian feels very strongly
[0] that this theme needs to be dark on light instead of the current
light on dark, which is fine by me. (Maybe a dark mode toggle too?) Ryan
and I have talked about how most English source strings should stay the
same to minimize additional translation work. We might have need for
another fundraising bar in the future, so putting one together now would
be good. I'd roughly rank the design priorities thusly:

1. Download
2. Overview-level what it does (or maybe why people might want it?)
3. User support
4. Further documentation on how to use it; what it does and how
5. How to contribute time or money

The current site has these pieces but they are not particularly
well-organized. Re-introducing screenshots to the homepage (which the
previous site had [1] but this redesign does not) seems good too. We've
gotten design feedback from Reddit already. [2][3]

> From what I have heard these are the items which are being sought out:
> * Theme overhaul moving to a lighter theme (keep it mobile friendly)
> * Integrate it into the current website engine (
> https://github.com/freenet/website/)

I'd be up to doing the integration work myself. How does that change the
quote?

> * Provide content suggestions to create a more appealing look
> 
> Some recent sites  have worked on are:
> http://www.mrrsmtechnologies.com/ (My business site)
> https://www.phikappaupsilon.org/
> 
> Please let me know if you would like to flush things out, get a formal
> quote, and proceed with a redesign.

I'm interested! Ian?

- Steve

[0] https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2015-November/038584.html
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20151015021753/https://freenetproject.org/
[2]
https://www.reddit.com/r/design_critiques/comments/4h9eg5/were_a_nonprofit_software_project_and_were/
[3]
https://www.reddit.com/r/design_critiques/comments/3ri38h/we_recently_redesigned_our_website_would_love/



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ryan Matthews]

This has been brought to my attention and I would like to get more
information about what exactly you are looking for.
I currently work, and sit, right next to Steve D at work which would make
moving the process forward quicker if he can have ideas bounced off of him.

It is hard to give a quote without knowing everything you would like done.
Based on the bullets I list below I would give an informal quote of $2500
but that could change based on more information becoming available on what
exact things you are hoping to achieve.

From what I have heard these are the items which are being sought out:
* Theme overhaul moving to a lighter theme (keep it mobile friendly)
* Integrate it into the current website engine (
https://github.com/freenet/website/)
* Provide content suggestions to create a more appealing look

Some recent sites  have worked on are:
http://www.mrrsmtechnologies.com/ (My business site)
https://www.phikappaupsilon.org/

Please let me know if you would like to flush things out, get a formal
quote, and proceed with a redesign.

Thanks for your time,

Ryan Matthews
MrRSM Technologies, LLC
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[xor]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:02:42 AM Steve Dougherty wrote:
> Agreed. To that end I've been looking into it and found a web designer
> who quotes $1.2k for design and development. Is that something we're
> interested in?

I'll have the next stage of the money poll ready this week, I would say we 
should let the community decide.

(If you really want a personal opinion: While I think the website's design is 
fine and should stay as is, $1200 is a boundary I would be OK with for a 
redesign. Shouldn't be much more though. So thanks for the for finding a 
webdesigner - if the community does vote to redesign the site, I'd agree with 
this particular offer from a financial point of view.)

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Patrick Julius]

Hi, everyone. My name is Patrick Julius, and I am the aforementioned web
designer.
Here are a couple of sites I worked on recently for the University of
Michigan:
https://rebuild.lsa.umich.edu/
https://michiganphysics.com/

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Steve Dougherty 
wrote:

> On 06/26/2016 09:26 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> ...
> > Hopefully we can use part of the $25k donation to pay for a professional
> > website
> > redesign, it will be well worth the investment.
> ...
>
> Agreed. To that end I've been looking into it and found a web designer
> who quotes $1.2k for design and development. Is that something we're
> interested in?
>
>
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ian Clarke]

Patrick, do you have a portfolio we could look at?





On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 10:35 AM, Patrick Julius patricknrjul...@gmail.com wrote:
If you have another service you'd like to use instead, that's up to you.




But I could probably save you money relative to most alternatives, as I can

do design or development or both.




Here's how my process would work:




I would want a portion of the payment as an advance up front (I usually

figure about 20%, so in this case about $240), and then work for a few

weeks to come up with a design proposal. You could all take a look at that,

and either accept it, ask for revisions, or if you really don't like it,

reject it entirely. So, if you decide to go with something else, you're

only out the 20% advance.




Then assuming that you've accepted the design and I've made any necessary

revisions, I get to work on developing the implementation. Only once it's

all completed do you pay me the remaining 80% ($960).

___

Devl mailing list

Devl@freenetproject.org

https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl



-- Ian Clarke Stacks - The AI CFO for your personal finances 
http://trystacks.com/
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Patrick Julius]

If you have another service you'd like to use instead, that's up to you.

But I could probably save you money relative to most alternatives, as I can
do design or development or both.

Here's how my process would work:

I would want a portion of the payment as an advance up front (I usually
figure about 20%, so in this case about $240), and then work for a few
weeks to come up with a design proposal. You could all take a look at that,
and either accept it, ask for revisions, or if you really don't like it,
reject it entirely. So, if you decide to go with something else, you're
only out the 20% advance.

Then assuming that you've accepted the design and I've made any necessary
revisions, I get to work on developing the implementation. Only once it's
all completed do you pay me the remaining 80% ($960).
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ian]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Steve Dougherty 
wrote:

> On 06/26/2016 09:26 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> ...
> > Hopefully we can use part of the $25k donation to pay for a professional
> > website
> > redesign, it will be well worth the investment.
> ...
>
> Agreed. To that end I've been looking into it and found a web designer
> who quotes $1.2k for design and development. Is that something we're
> interested in?


Price sounds quite low, so I think it would depend entirely on the quality
of their work - do they have a portfolio?

Another option would be to commission a design on https://99designs.com/,
this can cost anywhere from $500-$1000 or more depending on how much we
want to spend.

This would allow us to democratise the process of picking designs since you
can create public polls where people vote on their favorites.

We could then pay a company to convert the design (typically supplies in
PSD format) into HTML/CSS.

This is the approach I used to create http://33mail.com/ a few years ago -
the total cost for that was around $3000 IIRC including creation of the
video - I think the result was pretty good.

Ian.
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Steve Dougherty]

On 06/26/2016 09:26 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
...
> Hopefully we can use part of the $25k donation to pay for a professional
> website
> redesign, it will be well worth the investment.
...

Agreed. To that end I've been looking into it and found a web designer
who quotes $1.2k for design and development. Is that something we're
interested in?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ian Clarke]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply Bert.
On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 11:58 AM, Bert Massop bert.mas...@gmail.com wrote:Visitors 
to our website are interested in anonymity and escaping from

surveilance. As such, they tend to seek software like Freenet, and may end

up on our website to download it. It exactly this set of people who may be

most concerned about he proposed changes to rule 41 as described on the

EFF's website, as they oppose, in my humble opinion, both the interests of

our users and the project's goal. As such, knowledge on the proposed

changes to rule 41 may be of the best interest to Freenet's users and by

extension to the project itself, as Freenet cannot function without its

users.




This argument could also be used to justify having a large banner for Tor, I2P,
or a multitude of other projects which share similar goals on our front page.
Would that be desirable? I don't believe so.


The EFF had announced a single day to raise awareness of this issue. For

all of the reasons explained earlier, it struck me as useful to our

(American) users to be made aware of this.




No attempt was made to limit visibility of this banner to American users, nor
was it removed promptly after this day of action. I would still have disgagreed
with it, but I think these facts support my claim of carelessness with regard to
the project's public image as expressed through our website.





I'm also concerned that this action was taken even though multiple people

> had

> pointed out how ugly the banner was, utterly inconsistent with the color

> scheme

> of the website.







This reads as if one person decided to publish the banner, even though

others actively opposed that decision based on the perceived ugliness of

the result. As you may know, this was not the case. All active participants

in the discussion, myself included, perceived the banner as ugly, and all

of us agreed with still having the banned for a strongly restricted amount

of time despite its ugliness.




Which is why I said people were not giving sufficient consideration to the
importance of our public image as a project. Our website isn't a billboard. It's
purpose is to educate people about Freenet and hopefully persuade them to use it
and contribute towards the project.
The banner has already been removed sinceyesterday evening, which is well 
before you sent your latest message that I

am replying to.
It was only removed because I complained about it. How long would it have been
left there if I hadn't? This is the carelessness I have referred to.
I don't enjoy being the “bad cop”, but if people make mistakes then I'm going to
point out those mistakes.
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Bert Massop]

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Ian Clarke  wrote:

> I think the 501c3 question is secondary.
> Visitors to our website are there to learn about Freenet, hopefully
> download it
> and use it, and/or become developers. Why would we plant a huge ugly green
> banner in the middle of our front page to send these people away to another
> website, regardless of how worthwhile we might think that campaign is? It
> really
> makes no sense to me.
>

This has been explained very well in the conversation on IRC in #freenet,
but being one of those involved in the decision to place the banner, I'll
take this opportunity to explain it from my point of view.

Visitors to our website are interested in anonymity and escaping from
surveilance. As such, they tend to seek software like Freenet, and may end
up on our website to download it. It exactly this set of people who may be
most concerned about he proposed changes to rule 41 as described on the
EFF's website, as they oppose, in my humble opinion, both the interests of
our users and the project's goal. As such, knowledge on the proposed
changes to rule 41 may be of the best interest to Freenet's users and by
extension to the project itself, as Freenet cannot function without its
users.
The EFF had announced a single day to raise awareness of this issue. For
all of the reasons explained earlier, it struck me as useful to our
(American) users to be made aware of this.

I'm also concerned that this action was taken even though multiple people
> had
> pointed out how ugly the banner was, utterly inconsistent with the color
> scheme
> of the website.


This reads as if one person decided to publish the banner, even though
others actively opposed that decision based on the perceived ugliness of
the result. As you may know, this was not the case. All active participants
in the discussion, myself included, perceived the banner as ugly, and all
of us agreed with still having the banned for a strongly restricted amount
of time despite its ugliness.

At the time, my judgement was that the perceived ugliness was outweighed by
the expected utility to our users given it would only appear for a limited
time. I am by no means saying that in retrospect, this was for sure the
best judgement that could have been made.


> Don't people understand the importance of having an
> aesthetically pleasing and well structured website for the project? It just
> strikes me as extreme carelessness.
>

This leads me to infer that you judge our decision as to having been
careless. I respect your opinion on that, but I'd strongly appreciate it if
you could refrain from writing such general complaints passively addressed
to nobody in particular, while from the context it is immediately clear
whose behaviour you are attempting to complain about. It may be a cultural
difference, but it strikes me as needlessly offensive to generalize those
known to be involved to "people" in general.

I am well aware that you disagree with the decision we made at the time,
and I am sure the others involved are well aware of that too. Your
complaint only conveys a judgement, but does not address what action you
expect to be taken next. The banner has already been removed since
yesterday evening, which is well before you sent your latest message that I
am replying to. How is it exactly that you'd like us to follow up on this
complaint?


> Hopefully we can use part of the $25k donation to pay for a professional
> website
> redesign, it will be well worth the investment.
>

This has already partly been addressed in the Outreach section of the
Freenet Task Planning Stage #2 document. Please feel free to expand that
section to justify how and why donation money should be spent on website
redesign.
That said, I do think it might indeed be in the interest of our users if we
reconsider the look and feel of our website.

Kind regards,
Bert
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ian Clarke]

I think the 501c3 question is secondary.
Visitors to our website are there to learn about Freenet, hopefully download it
and use it, and/or become developers. Why would we plant a huge ugly green
banner in the middle of our front page to send these people away to another
website, regardless of how worthwhile we might think that campaign is? It really
makes no sense to me.
I'm also concerned that this action was taken even though multiple people had
pointed out how ugly the banner was, utterly inconsistent with the color scheme
of the website. Don't people understand the importance of having an
aesthetically pleasing and well structured website for the project? It just
strikes me as extreme carelessness.
Hopefully we can use part of the $25k donation to pay for a professional website
redesign, it will be well worth the investment.
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ximin Luo]

I just spoke to Roger Dingledine of the Tor project and his opinion was that 
it's OK. He suggested that projects can help from the EFF if they're worried.

He also pointed me to an internal email thread where this was discussed (which 
I also have access to read). The general consensus from multiple people was 
that it's fine, two notable limits being how much you can spend, and that you 
need to focus on legislation and not people running for office.

Here's a more specific resource going into more detail:

http://bolderadvocacy.org/resource/public-charities-can-lobby-guidelines-for-501c3-public-charities-2

One quote from there: "The IRS has provided no absolute guidance on how much 
lobbying is
“substantial,” but most tax practitioners generally advise that charities can 
safely devote 3-5% of their overall activities toward lobbying"

Of course, everything I've said doesn't matter if Freenet doesn't want to place 
such banners - but I thought I'd make some points around whether this is 
legal/illegal *in general*, in case other people read this public mailing list 
and get turned off doing such activities themselves.

X

Michael Grube:
> I really can't stress this enough, getting 501c3 status does take time and
> money (I think the application fee was about $800 last time I checked) and
> provides a lot of benefits. It's not something we should toy with.
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Michael Grube 
> wrote:
> 
>> Unless we want to risk our 501c3 status by playing around with the
>> definition of "substantial", we should probably not run any kind of
>> campaign, including helping to collect signatures and send emails.
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Michael Grube 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations
>>>
>>> " In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
>>> *,
>>> i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part
>>> of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for
>>> or against political candidates."
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
 specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:

 http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html

 which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that
 costless efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.

 X

 Michael Grube:
> I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal
 for
> the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
>
> Tor project is probably also in violation.
> On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" 
 wrote:
>
>> Ian Clarke:
>>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
 are
>> a 501c3
>>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
>> activities they
>>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>>
>> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that
 the
>> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
 against
>> Rule 41.
>>
>> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>>
>> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
>> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this
 is
>> less likely.
>>
>> X
>>
>> --
>> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>


 --
 GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
 GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
 https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
 ___
 Devl mailing list
 Devl@freenetproject.org
 https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

>>>
>>>
>>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> 


-- 
GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

I really can't stress this enough, getting 501c3 status does take time and
money (I think the application fee was about $800 last time I checked) and
provides a lot of benefits. It's not something we should toy with.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Michael Grube 
wrote:

> Unless we want to risk our 501c3 status by playing around with the
> definition of "substantial", we should probably not run any kind of
> campaign, including helping to collect signatures and send emails.
>
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Michael Grube 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations
>>
>> " In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
>> *,
>> i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part
>> of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for
>> or against political candidates."
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
>>> specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:
>>>
>>> http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html
>>>
>>> which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that
>>> costless efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.
>>>
>>> X
>>>
>>> Michael Grube:
>>> > I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal
>>> for
>>> > the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
>>> >
>>> > Tor project is probably also in violation.
>>> > On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Ian Clarke:
>>> >>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
>>> are
>>> >> a 501c3
>>> >>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
>>> >> activities they
>>> >>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that
>>> the
>>> >> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
>>> against
>>> >> Rule 41.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
>>> >> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this
>>> is
>>> >> less likely.
>>> >>
>>> >> X
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>>> >> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>>> >> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>>> >> ___
>>> >> Devl mailing list
>>> >> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>> >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>> > ___
>>> > Devl mailing list
>>> > Devl@freenetproject.org
>>> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>>> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>>> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>>> ___
>>> Devl mailing list
>>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>>
>>
>>
>
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

Unless we want to risk our 501c3 status by playing around with the
definition of "substantial", we should probably not run any kind of
campaign, including helping to collect signatures and send emails.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Michael Grube 
wrote:

>
> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations
>
> " In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
> *,
> i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part
> of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for
> or against political candidates."
>
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo 
> wrote:
>
>> Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
>> specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:
>>
>> http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html
>>
>> which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that costless
>> efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.
>>
>> X
>>
>> Michael Grube:
>> > I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal
>> for
>> > the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
>> >
>> > Tor project is probably also in violation.
>> > On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ian Clarke:
>> >>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
>> are
>> >> a 501c3
>> >>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
>> >> activities they
>> >>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>> >>
>> >> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
>> >> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
>> against
>> >> Rule 41.
>> >>
>> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>> >>
>> >> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
>> >> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
>> >> less likely.
>> >>
>> >> X
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>> >> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>> >> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>> >> ___
>> >> Devl mailing list
>> >> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>> > ___
>> > Devl mailing list
>> > Devl@freenetproject.org
>> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>>
>
>
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations

" In addition, it may not be an *action organization*
*,
i.e.,* it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of
its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or
against political candidates."

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ximin Luo 
wrote:

> Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the
> specific legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:
>
> http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html
>
> which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that costless
> efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.
>
> X
>
> Michael Grube:
> > I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal for
> > the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
> >
> > Tor project is probably also in violation.
> > On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo" 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Ian Clarke:
> >>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we
> are
> >> a 501c3
> >>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
> >> activities they
> >>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
> >>
> >> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
> >> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting
> against
> >> Rule 41.
> >>
> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
> >>
> >> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
> >> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
> >> less likely.
> >>
> >> X
> >>
> >> --
> >> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> >> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> >> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
> >> ___
> >> Devl mailing list
> >> Devl@freenetproject.org
> >> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> > ___
> > Devl mailing list
> > Devl@freenetproject.org
> > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> >
>
>
> --
> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ximin Luo]

Could you educate us with some more details on that? A link to the specific 
legislation would be great. On a quick web search, I can see this:

http://www.njnonprofits.org/NPsCanLobby.html

which only talks about spending money on lobbying, implying that costless 
efforts (like having a banner on your website) are perfectly fine.

X

Michael Grube:
> I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal for
> the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.
> 
> Tor project is probably also in violation.
> On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo"  wrote:
> 
>> Ian Clarke:
>>> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we are
>> a 501c3
>>> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
>> activities they
>>> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>>
>> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
>> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting against
>> Rule 41.
>>
>> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>>
>> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
>> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
>> less likely.
>>
>> X
>>
>> --
>> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
>> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
>> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>> ___
>> Devl mailing list
>> Devl@freenetproject.org
>> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> 


-- 
GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Michael Grube]

I'm somewhat familiar with 501c3 rules. Ian's correct, it's not legal for
the Freenet project to officially have a political agenda.

Tor project is probably also in violation.
On Jun 25, 2016 2:57 PM, "Ximin Luo"  wrote:

> Ian Clarke:
> > Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we are
> a 501c3
> > non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying
> activities they
> > can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
>
> I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the
> Tor project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting against
> Rule 41.
>
> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41
>
> I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it
> *could* be the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is
> less likely.
>
> X
>
> --
> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl@freenetproject.org
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

Re: [freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ximin Luo]

Ian Clarke:
> Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we are a 
> 501c3
> non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying activities they
> can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.

I don't see the banner now, but I would just like to point out that the Tor 
project is also a 501c3 non-profit and they are also protesting against Rule 41.

https://blog.torproject.org/blog/day-action-stop-changes-rule-41

I don't know the specific restrictions about lobbying though, so it *could* be 
the case that they're also in violation. But I think this is less likely.

X

-- 
GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] Banner must be removed from website NOW

[Ian Clarke]

Who put a hidous large green banner on the website linking to
https://noglobalwarrants.org/?
Freenet's website is not a billboard for volunteers to express their personal
political views (not to mention the fact that it is visually hideous).
Even more seriously, it may put us in violation of US law because we are a 501c3
non-profit, which are restricted in the political and lobbying activities they
can participate in while claiming 501c3 status.
Can someone remove this immediately?
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl