Re: Programming in D book is about 62% translated
On Sunday, 16 September 2012 at 06:39:44 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: I have continued with the translation of the book. At this point there are 439 pages in English of total 703 pages in Turkish. In addition to many corrections and additions throughout the book, there are two more chapters translated: * Constructor and Other Special Functions * Operator Overloading As a reminder, the book is available as PDF, downloadable from the header of each chapter: http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/index.html No Kindle or Lulu versions yet. Ali Awesome, thank you!
Re: Programming in D book is about 62% translated
On Sunday, 16 September 2012 at 06:39:44 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: I have continued with the translation of the book. At this point there are 439 pages in English of total 703 pages in Turkish. In addition to many corrections and additions throughout the book, there are two more chapters translated: * Constructor and Other Special Functions * Operator Overloading As a reminder, the book is available as PDF, downloadable from the header of each chapter: http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/index.html No Kindle or Lulu versions yet. Ali Awesome, thanks!
Re: Programming in D book is about 62% translated
Great!
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 9/18/2012 8:36 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: The most common failure I've had are the power supplies, they're still as bad today as in the 80's. There are good power supplies, they just don't come in pre-built computers because they're expensive. I think the same could be said of products from any era. Well, you guys have convinced me. Next time I buy a PS, I'm going to spend more money on it.
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On 2012-09-17 23:13, Jens Mueller wrote:
Post all feedback to this thread. Constructive feedback is very much
appreciated.
To conclude in more Andrei like words: Happy destruction!
* Why is scheduleForBenchmarking a string? Can't it be a template mixin?
* What's the most appropriate way of just timing a block of code?
Something like this:
auto time = benchmark!({ /* some code */ })(1);
If that's the case then I suggest setting a default value of 1 for the
n parameter.
* If I want to format the printed result differently, say in HTML, how
would I do that? Should I use the benchmark function and iterate the
BenchmarkResult array?
* BTW why doesn't benchmark return the BenchmarkResult array?
* Is this module so important to keep it as a top level module? I'm
thinking something like a utility package or a time/date package. How
about std.util.benchmark?
--
/Jacob Carlborg
Re: reference to 'self' inside a function
On 2012-09-18 23:21, Rob T wrote: Obviously the above solution is not reasonable, esp for a language that attempts to provide good reflection abilities. I would not call the reflection abilities in D good. D has reflection abilities but they are far from good. Most are different hacks bolt together. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: reference to 'self' inside a function
On 2012-09-19 01:21, Rob T wrote:
Actually I find the __traits system a bit convoluted and inconsistent
with other similar features. There seems to be a real need to unify the
different methods of reflection in D.
For example, I can do this without using __traits
int i;
writeln( i.stringof );
and I can do this
void function x() {};
writeln( x.stringof );
but it won't work for the main function
int main(char[][] args)
{
writeln( main.stringof ); // compile error (bug?)
}
I think the reason for this is that the compiler will resolve main as
a function call, but it will fail because no arguments are given. This
is a typical feature where it seems no one really know how it should
behave. .stringof is very poorly documented. It says nothing about what
the returned string might look like.
but this works
writeln(__traits( identifier, main ));
It seems that __traits(itentifier, ) and .stringof are two ways of
getting access to the same information.
So why do we have __traits and the built in properties that overlap in
functionality? Why is it inconsistently applied as seen with function
main (although that could simply be a bug)? The situation is rather
confusing.
.stringof was available long before D2 was created, __traits is only
available in D2. I think __traits was create to try to improve the
compile time reflection abilities in D.
--
/Jacob Carlborg
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 2012-09-18 09:37, Nick Sabalausky wrote: - Oracle (Even if it's not a terrible DBMS, it's certainly overpriced) You need a SAP system to keep track of the cost of your Oracle system :) -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 2012-09-18 17:12, H. S. Teoh wrote: Reformatting and reinstalling, though, is a matter of course on any Windows installation that I've ever seen. I've heard of such things as stable Windows installations, but as far as my experience goes those are mythical beasts. Things just fail the moment you start doing something non-trivial, like anything besides read email, watch youtube, and browse the 'Net. I've been spared this pain for the most part 'cos I swore off Windows and have been running Linux as my main OS for at least 10 years, but I do still get requests for help to fix broken Windows installations. Most of the time, the thing's either unfixable (hood is welded shut) or not worth the effort to fix 'cos reformat + reinstall is faster (shudder). I had a Windows machine running as an HTPC that I had no problems with. Although the only thing I used it for was to watch movies. That's not to say that Linux doesn't have its own problems, of course. The libc5 - libc6 transition is one of the memorable nightmares in its history. There have been others. X11 failures can get really ugly (back in the days before KVM, a crashed or wedged X server meant your graphics card is stuck in graphics mode and the console shows up as random dot patterns -- good luck trying to fix the system when you can't see what you type). Once I accidentally broke the dynamic linker, and EVERYTHING broke, because everything depended on it. The only thing left was a single bash shell over SSH (this was on a remote server with no easy physical access), and the only commands that didn't fail were built-in bash commands like echo. So I had to transfer busybox over by converting it into a series of echo commands that reconstituted the binary and copy-n-paste it. It's one of those moments where you get so much satisfaction from having rescued a dying system singlehandedly with echo commands, but it's also one of those things that puts Linux on some people's no-way, no-how list. That's also the beauty of Linux, you could do it. Try doing that on a Windows machine. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 2012-09-18 17:36, Sean Kelly wrote: On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: The most common failure I've had are the power supplies, they're still as bad today as in the 80's. There are good power supplies, they just don't come in pre-built computers because they're expensive. I think the same could be said of products from any era. What kind of computers are you guys using. I have never owned a pre-built computer (except for laptops). I always buy my own components and assembles the computer. Then I know what I get. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 2012-09-18 21:58, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I have an rsync cronjob back up my home partition nightly so that the chances of losing that data are slim (though I don't back up all the rest of my data from my many hard drives unfortunately - it would take up too much space). It's saved me on a number of occasions from corrupted or lost data even _without_ hard drive failures. Regular backups are a must IMHO, though I think that most people consider it too much of a hassle to bother with unfortunately. It's dead easy on Mac OS X with the built in TimeMachine. Just select the backup disk and you're done. By default it backups all HFS+ disks, if you want you can choose to exclude some. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 09:13:40 Jacob Carlborg wrote: * Is this module so important to keep it as a top level module? I'm thinking something like a utility package or a time/date package. How about std.util.benchmark? util is one of the worst package names ever, because it means basically nothing. Any function could go in there. As for a time/date package, we already have std.datetime (which will hopefully be split into the package std.datetime at some point, but we need something like DIP 15 or 16 before we can do that), and we're moving the benchmarking _out_ of there. If std.datetime were already a package, then maybe putting it in there would make some sense, but benchmarking is arguably fundamentally different from what the rest of std.datetime does. I really so no problem with benchmarking being its own thing, and std.benchmark works just fine for that. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
I don't see why `benchmark` takes (almost) all of its parameters
as template parameters. It looks quite odd, seems unnecessary,
and (if I'm not mistaken) makes certain use cases quite difficult.
For example, suppose I want to benchmark a function several times
with different parameters and names, how would I do that?
foreach (i; 0..10)
{
printBenchmark!( format(Test %d, i), { someFunc(i); } )();
}
This won't work because i isn't known at compile time, and for
some use cases it can't be known at compile time.
I wouldn't mind if there was some real benefit to taking these as
template arguments, but there doesn't seem to be any value at all
-- it just limits usage.
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 22:01:30 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: After extensive tests with a variety of aggregate functions, I can say firmly that taking the minimum time is by far the best when it comes to assessing the speed of a function. What if one tries to benchmark a nondeterministic function? In such a case one might well be interested in the best run, worst run, and the average.
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On 19 September 2012 01:02, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: On 9/18/12 5:07 PM, Øivind wrote: * For all tests, the best run is selected, but would it not be reasonable in some cases to get the average value? Maybe excluding the runs that are more than a couple std. deviations away from the mean value.. After extensive tests with a variety of aggregate functions, I can say firmly that taking the minimum time is by far the best when it comes to assessing the speed of a function. The fastest execution time is rarely useful to me, I'm almost always much more interested in the slowest execution time. In realtime software, the slowest time is often the only important factor, everything must be designed to tolerate this possibility. I can also imagine other situations where multiple workloads are competing for time, the average time may be more useful in that case. Side question: Running a test over and over pre-populates the cache with all associated data after the first cycle... The cache needs to be randomised between each cycle to get realistic results.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 06:11:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/18/2012 8:36 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: The most common failure I've had are the power supplies, they're still as bad today as in the 80's. There are good power supplies, they just don't come in pre-built computers because they're expensive. I think the same could be said of products from any era. Well, you guys have convinced me. Next time I buy a PS, I'm going to spend more money on it. What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break...
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:37:44 +0200, Mehrdad wfunct...@hotmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 06:11:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/18/2012 8:36 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: The most common failure I've had are the power supplies, they're still as bad today as in the 80's. There are good power supplies, they just don't come in pre-built computers because they're expensive. I think the same could be said of products from any era. Well, you guys have convinced me. Next time I buy a PS, I'm going to spend more money on it. What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break... Use them every day for a regular computer? While I've had no spectacular failures (yet), this has been sufficient to break a PSU or two. Then I decided to spend money getting a quality PSU, and it hasn't had a single problem in 7 years. -- Simen
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:36:46 UTC, Mehrdad wrote: What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break... I once tried to do some GPU calculations. After several hours, the PSU failed, frying my components. The graphics card was literally ON FIRE (!). Nothing was salvageable. Anyways, that is what *THAT* is how to kill a PSU, and *THAT* is what happens when they fail...
Re: Would like to see ref and out required for function calls
On 09/18/2012 11:26 PM, Ziad Hatahet wrote:
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Timon Gehr timon.g...@gmx.ch
mailto:timon.g...@gmx.ch wrote:
Yes, Go uses explicit pointer types.
Regarding Rust, you are wrong.
I have built the latest Rust compiler.
import io;
fn modify(a:int){
a = 2;
}
fn swapT(a:T,b:T){
let tmp-a;
a-b;
b-tmp;
}
The `fn foo(a: T)` syntax is being deprecated in favor of `fn foo(a:
mut T)`.
So your modify function becomes: `fn modify(a: mut int)`, and gets
called as `modify(mut a)`.
Your swap function becomes `fn swapT(a: mut T, b: mut T)` and gets
called as `swap(mut a, mut b)`.
So effectively, Rust also opted for explicit ref at the call site.
--
Ziad
I see. Thank you for the clarification.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:53:33 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:36:46 UTC, Mehrdad wrote: What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break... I once tried to do some GPU calculations. After several hours, the PSU failed, frying my components. The graphics card was literally ON FIRE (!). Nothing was salvageable. Anyways, that is what *THAT* is how to kill a PSU, and *THAT* is what happens when they fail... Dang that's... intense. o.o Are laptop power supplies more durable or something? None of my laptops (or anyone's laptop I know) have had problematic power supplies...
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
The fastest execution time is rarely useful to me, I'm almost always much more interested in the slowest execution time. In realtime software, the slowest time is often the only important factor, everything must be designed to tolerate this possibility. I can also imagine other situations where multiple workloads are competing for time, the average time may be more useful in that case. The problem with slowest is that you end up with the occasional OS hiccup or GC collection which throws the entire benchmark off. I see your point, but unless you can prevent the OS from interrupting, the time would be meaningless.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 09:19:13 UTC, Mehrdad wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:53:33 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:36:46 UTC, Mehrdad wrote: What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break... I once tried to do some GPU calculations. After several hours, the PSU failed, frying my components. The graphics card was literally ON FIRE (!). Nothing was salvageable. Anyways, that is what *THAT* is how to kill a PSU, and *THAT* is what happens when they fail... Dang that's... intense. o.o Are laptop power supplies more durable or something? None of my laptops (or anyone's laptop I know) have had problematic power supplies... The difference is that a laptop's wattage is nowhere near the wattage of a desktop. This is even truer of modern computer, where desktops consume even more power, whereas laptops are consuming much less. I've never had a problem with a laptop PSU block itself... Not that I can say the same about the batteries. I have about 2 laptops at home, whose batteries are left with, literally, 0 charge. Even a simple split second power cut, and they fill turn off :(
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 05:26:33 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:35:45AM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: [...] Yet for whatever reason corporate types just love WebEx. Every meeting and cow-orker's son's birthday party is on WebEx. Ugh. Nowadays I just resort to looking over the cow-orker's shoulders when reviewing WebEx videos instead of defiling my PC with that crap. I am a corporate guy that loves WebEx. If you ever went through the amount of failed attempts in the corporate world starting with NetMeeting, Sametime and a couple of others I already forgot, in the last decade, you can only love how easy and stable it is to use WebEx conferences. -- Paulo
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 21:19:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:12:50 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: Reformatting and reinstalling, though, is a matter of course on any Windows installation that I've ever seen. I've heard of such things as stable Windows installations, but as far as my experience goes those are mythical beasts. My desktop's XP installation (SP2 even) has been aces for years. And years ago, when I did have to reinstall, it was just because of something stupid I'd done. I've seen plenty of screwed up Win boxes (even Win7), but it's always owned by someone who doesn't even know what a web browser is, so I figure chances are it's due to one of two things: A. The user doing something stupid. B. The user not using the web the way I do: with Adblock Plus installed, and JS and Flash disabled by default. I vote +1 for (A). :) It's not a mythical beast, it's sitting right in front of me! My situation with Windows 7 has been quite stable too. FYI, my Windows is run: - Without any antimalware software of any kind (I hate them) - Always with admin privileges (UAC turned off) - In Test Mode (security risk in terms of digital signatures) - I currently boot 5 OSes: - Windows 7 x64, the original which the laptop came with, which I use 99% of the time - Windows 8 I installed a few weeks ago for trying it out - Windows XP 32-bit and 64-bit for testing stuff - Linux (Ubuntu) x64 for when I need it - I mess with partitions every few weeks - I hack around with Windows internals quite a bit ;) Guess which OS is the one that I've reinstalled a bazillion times? Ubuntu. And it _still_ doesn't boot automatically! I tell it to install Grub, and it says OK. It even _force_ it to reinstall Grub, and it says OK, I reinstalled myself. Then I reboot and it goes onto the screen and just... doesn't boot. I have to type in the boot sequence commands myself. Why? Because a random, unrelated partition on the disk changed and Ubuntu freaked out. At least when Windows has the occasional boot problem which I stupidly caused, it's _fixable_ and doesn't lie to you about having fixed it!!
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 21:19:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:12:50 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: Reformatting and reinstalling, though, is a matter of course on any Windows installation that I've ever seen. I've heard of such things as stable Windows installations, but as far as my experience goes those are mythical beasts. My desktop's XP installation (SP2 even) has been aces for years. And years ago, when I did have to reinstall, it was just because of something stupid I'd done. I've seen plenty of screwed up Win boxes (even Win7), but it's always owned by someone who doesn't even know what a web browser is, so I figure chances are it's due to one of two things: A. The user doing something stupid. B. The user not using the web the way I do: with Adblock Plus installed, and JS and Flash disabled by default. I vote +1 for (A). :) It's not a mythical beast, it's sitting right in front of me! My situation with Windows 7 has been quite stable too. FYI, my Windows is run: - Without any antimalware software of any kind (I hate them) - Always with admin privileges (UAC turned off) - In Test Mode (security risk in terms of digital signatures) - I currently boot 5 OSes: - Windows 7 x64, the original which the laptop came with, which I use 99% of the time - Windows 8 I installed a few weeks ago for trying it out - Windows XP 32-bit and 64-bit for testing stuff - Linux (Ubuntu) x64 for when I need it - I mess with partitions every few weeks - I hack around with Windows internals quite a bit ;) Guess which OS is the one that I've reinstalled a bazillion times? Ubuntu. And it _still_ doesn't boot automatically! I tell it to install Grub, and it says OK. It even _force_ it to reinstall Grub, and it says OK, I reinstalled myself. Then I reboot and it goes onto the screen and just... doesn't boot. I have to type in the boot sequence commands myself. Why? Because a random, unrelated partition on the disk changed and Ubuntu freaked out. At least when Windows has the occasional boot problem which I stupidly caused, it's _fixable_ and doesn't lie to you about having fixed it!!
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 09/19/2012 11:54 AM, Mehrdad wrote: ... At least when Windows has the occasional boot problem which I stupidly caused, it's _fixable_ and doesn't lie to you about having fixed it!! The issue is that in one case you know how to fix it and in the other one you do not (and you care less about it because you prefer to think Windows is superior as it is what you use '99% of the time'), not that the problems are inherently (un)fixable.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 09:19:13 UTC, Mehrdad wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:53:33 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:36:46 UTC, Mehrdad wrote: What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break... I once tried to do some GPU calculations. After several hours, the PSU failed, frying my components. The graphics card was literally ON FIRE (!). Nothing was salvageable. Anyways, that is what *THAT* is how to kill a PSU, and *THAT* is what happens when they fail... Dang that's... intense. o.o Are laptop power supplies more durable or something? None of my laptops (or anyone's laptop I know) have had problematic power supplies... The difference is that a laptop's wattage is nowhere near the wattage of a desktop. This is even truer of modern computer, where desktops consume even more power, whereas laptops are consuming much less. I've never had a problem with a laptop PSU block itself... Not that I can say the same about the batteries. I have about 2 laptops at home, whose batteries are left with, literally, 0 charge. Even a simple split second power cut, and they fill turn off :(
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:45:42 Paulo Pinto wrote: On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 05:26:33 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:35:45AM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: [...] Yet for whatever reason corporate types just love WebEx. Every meeting and cow-orker's son's birthday party is on WebEx. Ugh. Nowadays I just resort to looking over the cow-orker's shoulders when reviewing WebEx videos instead of defiling my PC with that crap. I am a corporate guy that loves WebEx. If you ever went through the amount of failed attempts in the corporate world starting with NetMeeting, Sametime and a couple of others I already forgot, in the last decade, you can only love how easy and stable it is to use WebEx conferences. We've taken to using google hangout where I work. It's by no means perfect, but it's far easier to setup and deal with than WebEx. There may be worse things than WebEx, but I'd just as soon never have to deal with it again. To each their own though, I suppose. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 10:53:40 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:45:42 Paulo Pinto wrote: On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 05:26:33 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:35:45AM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: [...] Yet for whatever reason corporate types just love WebEx. Every meeting and cow-orker's son's birthday party is on WebEx. Ugh. Nowadays I just resort to looking over the cow-orker's shoulders when reviewing WebEx videos instead of defiling my PC with that crap. I am a corporate guy that loves WebEx. If you ever went through the amount of failed attempts in the corporate world starting with NetMeeting, Sametime and a couple of others I already forgot, in the last decade, you can only love how easy and stable it is to use WebEx conferences. We've taken to using google hangout where I work. It's by no means perfect, but it's far easier to setup and deal with than WebEx. There may be worse things than WebEx, but I'd just as soon never have to deal with it again. To each their own though, I suppose. - Jonathan M Davis I have yet not tried. In most places where I worked, they only allow such type of tools when you can have some control over the servers where it is hosted. You know the typical bureaucratic from multi-national companies in the corporate world. :( -- Paulo
no-arg constructor for structs (again)
About two month ago, I started a thread about the possibility of
having a no-arg constructor (not to be confused with a
default constructor). The thread was:
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/icjwbtlxsaekksyol...@forum.dlang.org
Back then, the language was still new to me (I have a better grip
on it now), and I got extra information during the thread, which
threw me off course. One of the better arguments throw at me from
another thread (by Andrei), was that a no-arg constructor with
interfere with the auto a = S(); syntax. I had no rebuke at the
time.
I'd like to restart this conversation. First, by showing a no-arg
constructor is needed, and then, by showing how we should be able
to plug it into the language.
The biggest issue with not having a no-arg constructor can
easilly be seen if you have ever worked with a Reference
Semantic semantic struct: A struct that has a pointer to a
payload. Basically, a class, but without the inherited Object
polymorphism. These are hard to work with, both for the user and
the implementer: They either use auto-intialization, making EVERY
CALL start with ensure initialied (costly for ranges). Either
that, or they need to be explicitly initialized. Or a mix of
both, and a source of bugs and frustration in phobos.
Anyways, let's start with an example. For the sake of simplicity,
I defined two structs to avoid the structs with a constructor
can't be default newed bug;
struct S
{
int* p;
}
struct S2
{
int* p;
this(int){};
}
void main()
{
S a;
S* pa;
//auto b = S;
auto pb = new S;
auto c = S.init;
//auto pc = ???
auto d = S();
auto pd = new S();
auto e = S2(5);
auto pe = new S2(5);
}
In the above code, a-c/pa-pc are not initialized, as expected.
e/pe are initialized, as expected.
HOWEVER, and in contrast to classes, it is surprising that auto
d = S(); and auto pd = new S(); does not create an initialized
reference semantic struct. It is a bare minimum to give a user
the ability to allocate initialize in a single call...
This is a problem for both user *and* implementer: The user will
have trouble initializing his struct, whereas the implementer
will have trouble on his end properlly implementing his struct.
I was trying to develop one such struct. One solution was to use
the opCall hack. Andrei suggested I migrate to a class. On one
end, I think his suggestion is the better approach here. On the
other hand I also think that if a developer is forced into
migrating from a struct to a class because of implementation
detail, or using a hack, it is a tell-tale sign of something
stinky.
What is very interesting to note above (IMO), is that the
language provides no less than THREE syntaxes to allocate a
non-constructed S, two of which can be used with auto:
*Explicit typing (a)
*For stack: S.init (c), parenthesis (d)
*for new: without parenthesis (pb), with parenthesis (pd)
If we have such extra ways, then surely, one of the two can be
used to call the no arg constructor, while the other is just an
S.init memcopy, right? Here is my proposal:
struct S
{
int* p;
this(){};//no arg constructor
this(int){}; //arg constructor
}
void main()
{
S a;//Not initialized
S* pa; //Not initialized
auto b1 = S; //Not initialized (new semantic)
auto b2 = S.init; //Not initialized (verbose semantic)
auto pb = new S;//Not initialized
auto e = S2(5); //Initialized, calls this(int)
auto pe = new S2(5); //Initialized, calls this(int)
auto d = S(); //Initialized, calls this() (migrating
semantic)
auto pd = new S(); //Initialized, calls this() (migrating
semantic)
}
As is shown in this example, the language semantics should be
perfectly capable of handling this.
The issues we may encounter are more due to the ambiguities
with the old semantics:
*Regarding the migrating semantic: This form is currently
available in D. I propose it remains useable for now, but later
becomes deprecated if the struct does not have a no-arg
constructor.
*Regarding b1: I propose this semantic become legal. It is
legal with auto pb = bew S;, so auto b = S; should also be
accepted. The alternative would be to use S.init, but this is
more verbose, and more explicit.
I realize this would be a big change to the *core* language, yet
the no no-arg constructor has felt like a (breaking) limitation
from day one, and it would be really nice if we could support it.
I realize *why* the default constructor had to go, but no-arg
didn't have to go with it. I think it was an accident to let it
go, and we should be trying to fix this.
Could I get some feedback so I could make a formal and thorough
enhancement request?
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 11:51:13 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: The biggest issue with not having a no-arg constructor can easilly be seen if you have ever worked with a Reference Semantic semantic struct: A struct that has a pointer to a payload. Basically, a class, but without the inherited Object polymorphism. This means that you still have a class object. What is design behind inserting class into the structure for the sake of escaping from classes? These are hard to work with, both for the user and the implementer: They either use auto-intialization, making EVERY CALL start with ensure initialied (costly for ranges). Either that, or they need to be explicitly initialized. Or a mix of both, and a source of bugs and frustration in phobos. If you know initialize values at compile time, you can use them. If not, you can overload opCall to make custom initialization at runtime. Yes, it doesn't help to initialize structures which are created like S s; - but that how structures work: they are lightweight objects in some matter of speaking and if somebody wants to call some functions even in such cases, he probably needs to rethink the design. HOWEVER, and in contrast to classes, it is surprising that auto d = S(); and auto pd = new S(); does not create an initialized reference semantic struct. It is a bare minimum to give a user the ability to allocate initialize in a single call... Indeed, they are initialized. What is very interesting to note above (IMO), is that the language provides no less than THREE syntaxes to allocate a non-constructed S, two of which can be used with auto: *Explicit typing (a) *For stack: S.init (c), parenthesis (d) *for new: without parenthesis (pb), with parenthesis (pd) Which construction do you refer?
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
I don't think making the use of optional parens affect semantics is an idea worth following.
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
Le 19/09/2012 15:24, Timon Gehr a écrit : I don't think making the use of optional parens affect semantics is an idea worth following. I have to agree with that. However, argument-less constructor is something required for struct. The problem is raised on a regular basis on this newsgroup, and some solution already have been proposed. As discussed earlier in the reference thread, the compiler will have to track down initialization at some point. A struct with an argument-less constructor which isn't initialized must be an error. This will avoid the () semantic dichotomy while solving that problem.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 01:34:12 -0400, Nick Sabalausky seewebsitetocontac...@semitwist.com wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:46:35 -0400 Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: The keyboard click sound (which you can disable BTW, settings-sounds-keyboard clicks) obeys the ringer volume. Ehh? How unintuitive. I cannot argue that Apple's audio volume isn't too simplistic for its own good. AIUI, they have two volumes, one for the ringer, and one for playing audio, games, videos, etc. I feel like the volume should be app-specific, and you should be able to allocate new volume categories. Putting keyboard clicks under the ringer volume seems like a kludge. However, it *does* do a good job of remembering volume settings for different audio outputs. For example, it keeps track of your headphone ringer and audio volume separate from your speaker ringer and audio volume. I think the main problem is that the volume rules are just far too convoluted. They took something trivial and hacked it up beyond recognition, and all in the supposed name of simplicity, go figure. I think if they simply made the volume buttons control the ringer while locked and not playing music, it would solve the problem. BTW, a cool feature I didn't know for a long time is if you double tap the home button, your audio controls appear on the lock screen (play/pause, next previous song, and audio volume). But I think you have to unlock to access ringer volume. Well, I guess you fidget more about ringer volume than I do. I usually like the ringer to be on 100%, because I frequently leave it on my desk or somewhere other than my pocket. When I want it to be quiet, it goes into silent mode. Well, I *would* fidget with it a lot, but frankly no matter what I do it's always playing something either too loud or two quiet, and I've got better things to do than mess with a screwy interface every time I walk into a different environment. So really it just encourages me to avoid even using it or even bringing the thing anywhere unless I really need it. A stiff, recessed master volume dial that I could reach into my pocket to adjust would pretty much solve the issue, but I guess that just isn't high tech enough. Make it holographic so you can't even feel it at all, *then* Apple would probably toss it in. :/ It's more moving parts to break. I wouldn't like it. Just my opinion. And that's *just* volume issues alone. God, I *HATE* the fucking thing. Any time I use it, I just want to hurl the damn thing into the nearest concrete wall as hard as I can. But I can't, because it's not even mine, it's a loaner, and I unfortunately need it for development/testing (or at least *will* need it for such once we pay Apple their Developer Ransom). Hehe, yeah, that sucks. But it's definitely worth it if you are going to do *any* development, even if you aren't publishing. If it were my own personal device, I'd just jailbreak it and be done with it. (And then pay the ransom to publish, of course, because what else can you do? Create your own device and compete with Apple under capitalism? Nope, Google tried that idea of competition and look what happened: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/technology/jury-reaches-decision-in-apple-samsung-patent-trial.html?_r=1ref=technology ) If you want to develop for only jailbroken phones, you basically alienate most users of iPhone. It's not a viable business model IMO. Yes, it sucks to have to jump through apple's hoops, but having access to millions of users is very much worth it. Just wait until you try to install your app on your phone for the first time -- I have a feeling you will hate that too :) I've done it on the Android already - could be better could be worse. Marmalade's deployment tool is really dodgy when installing to a device, but using Google's ADB directly is pretty reliable, and so is installing from a URL via the device's browser. I'm definitely not looking forward to dealing with iTunes though. I've already used it for syncing the phone, and it's just a big mess. I don't even bother trying to sync it anymore (PalmOS syncing OTOH, was flawless). When the time comes, I'll probably grab copies of Phone to PC and/or Phone Disk http://www.macroplant.com/downloads.php. The demos of those seem to work much better than iTunes, plus they don't treat me like a brain-damaged monkey. Oh, when you develop apps, it's quite easy to install on the phone, you just click run from xcode, selecting your device, you don't ever have to start itunes (though itunes will auto-start every time you plug in the phone, but you can disable this in itunes, more annoying is that iPhoto *always* starts, I can't figure out how to stop that). From then on, the app is installed. The issue is setting up all the certificates via xcode and their web portal to get that to work (should only have to do this once). I think the process has
Re: Would like to see ref and out required for function calls
I'm amazed and very pleased at the discussion that this has generated. I think it would be great if ref and out required for function calls in D3. As others have mentioned, it would greatly assist with code readability. On Friday, 7 September 2012 at 11:33:41 UTC, Kevin McTaggart wrote: I've been looking at migrating a reasonably large ship motion library (tens of thousands of lines) from C# to D. I've become quite enthusiastic about D, and most of my problems have been relatively minor (e.g., inconsistent bugs with std.container.Array, would like orange serialization to give me an error telling me I didn't register a class before calling serialize). I suggest that the language require ref and out when calling functions, as C# requires. This would make code easier to understand, and would also eliminate the problem I had when the wrong function from the following choices was mistakenly called: parseLineInts(string text, int positionStart, out int j0, out int j1) parseLineInts(string text, out int j0, out int j1, out int j2) I note that the second function calls another function as follows: int positionStart = 1; parseLineInts(text, positionStart, j0, j1, j2); I look forward to seeing feedback from D experts. This is the only significant change that I could think of recommending for the language.
D operator overloading. Why that way?
Is there any reason to allow overload `op=`? IMHO it should be left illegal and should be interpreted always as `a = a op b`. It will be simpler and less confusing. Also why `opEquals` is independent from `opCmp`? Once again `opEquals` should be removed and equality will be provided by `opCmp() == 0`.
Re: D operator overloading. Why that way?
Hauleth: Is there any reason to allow overload `op=`? IMHO it should be left illegal and should be interpreted always as `a = a op b`. It will be simpler and less confusing. The increase of complexity and confusion is small. Also why `opEquals` is independent from `opCmp`? A Complex number defines equality but not comparisons: https://raw.github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/master/std/complex.d Sometimes computing equality is faster than comparisons, so better have both. Once again `opEquals` should be removed and equality will be provided by `opCmp() == 0`. I'd like the opposite: more freedom to be able to define but not =. Bye, bearophile
Re: D operator overloading. Why that way?
Sorry for mixing your reply, but I want to answer your second
question first.
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 14:39:20 UTC, Hauleth wrote:
Also why `opEquals` is independent from `opCmp`? Once again
`opEquals` should be removed and equality will be provided by
`opCmp() == 0`.
Because some types can't be logically ordered. For example,
coordinates. It makes no sense to give coordinates a logical
order, but comparing them for equality does.
Is there any reason to allow overload `op=`? IMHO it should be
left illegal and should be interpreted always as `a = a op b`.
It will be simpler and less confusing.
Arguably, this default would be much too expensive.
If anything, it would work the other way around, where:
opBinary is replaced by
{auto temp = a; a += b; return a;}
BUT:
#1: This pre-supposes that opOpAssing returns something (not
guaranteed), so it can't be made to default to this behavior.
#2: *SOME* object don't WANT to have a default opBinary, but they
do have opOpAssign.
#3: Even then, maybe opBinary doesn't have the same semantics as
the above implementation.
So it is not possible to make one default on the implementation
of the other
So yeah, long story short, you can implement opOpAssing, and then
implementation of opBinary should be trivial, but it remains the
dev's job to choose if or if not he wants the op.
Why do not have `0o` prefix for octal numbers?
Some time ago I've asked on SO why most languages have `0` prefix for octal numbers. My opinion is the same as D designers that it cause a lot of bugs, but why octal numbers are avaible only by using `std.conv.octal`?
Re: Why do not have `0o` prefix for octal numbers?
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 16:02:41 UTC, Hauleth wrote: Some time ago I've asked on SO why most languages have `0` prefix for octal numbers. My opinion is the same as D designers that it cause a lot of bugs, but why octal numbers are avaible only by using `std.conv.octal`? How often do you use octal numbers? The reason is simply to avoid language feature creep where a library solution is perfectly acceptable. David
Re: Why do not have `0o` prefix for octal numbers?
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 16:02:41 UTC, Hauleth wrote: Some time ago I've asked on SO why most languages have `0` prefix for octal numbers. My opinion is the same as D designers that it cause a lot of bugs, but why octal numbers are avaible only by using `std.conv.octal`? AFAIK: It is experimental. The $(D octal) facility is intended as an experimental facility to replace _octal literals starting with $(D '0'), which many find confusing. The reason for deprecating 0 prefix was indeed because of bugs. Then it was noticed that a library solution was available, and as a rule of thumb, if the library can do it, it is moved from the language to the library. You'll see a lot of threads talking about scope, which went the same way (which is now a library feature, not a language feature). IMO, deprecating 0765 was a good move. Personally, I'd rather have had 0o765 instead of octal!765 (if only for highlighting). But I don't think it is a big deal.
Re: reference to 'self' inside a function
I found this discussion, Time for std.reflection http://forum.dlang.org/thread/juf7sk$16rl$1...@digitalmars.com so maybe if the effort gets underway (or perhaps it is already) then we'll see significant improvemnts with D's reflection. --rt
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:02:24PM +0200, Timon Gehr wrote: On 09/19/2012 11:54 AM, Mehrdad wrote: ... At least when Windows has the occasional boot problem which I stupidly caused, it's _fixable_ and doesn't lie to you about having fixed it!! The issue is that in one case you know how to fix it and in the other one you do not (and you care less about it because you prefer to think Windows is superior as it is what you use '99% of the time'), not that the problems are inherently (un)fixable. Yeah, that's one of the things that irks me about Windows culture. It's touted as being user-friendly and easy to use, etc., but actually it requires just as much effort as learning to use Linux. People complain about how Linux is hard to use or things break for no reason, but the same thing happens with Windows -- you either do things the Windows way (which requires that you learn what it is), or you quickly run into a whole bunch of gratuitous incompatibilities and bugs that nobody cares about because you aren't supposed to do things that way. (I tried switching the mouse to sloppy focus once... and never dared try it again.) As a programmer, though, I find Windows fundamentally annoying because the hood is welded shut. Sometimes you *know* what's wrong but it refuses to let you fix it, whereas on Linux you can look at the source and figure out how to fix it -- heck, you can modify and recompile the dang *kernel* to make it do what you want, should you be so inclined! You can't even get close to that in Windows. But then again, this is from the POV of a programmer. From the user's POV, none of this matters, it's all just a question of familiarity and preference. I personally find the bash shell far easier and more comfortable to use than any kind of klunky GUI, but most people won't because the prevalence of Windows has made GUIs more familiar to the average user. T -- Turning your clock 15 minutes ahead won't cure lateness---you're just making time go faster!
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Sep 19, 2012, at 12:40 AM, Jacob Carlborg d...@me.com wrote: On 2012-09-18 17:36, Sean Kelly wrote: On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: The most common failure I've had are the power supplies, they're still as bad today as in the 80's. There are good power supplies, they just don't come in pre-built computers because they're expensive. I think the same could be said of products from any era. What kind of computers are you guys using. I have never owned a pre-built computer (except for laptops). I always buy my own components and assembles the computer. Then I know what I get. Same here. If I were to buy a pre-assembled computer I'd probably go to someplace like cyberpowerpc.com, but even then you have to explicitly pick the good PSU because it isn't included by default.
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
On 19-Sep-12 15:52, monarch_dodra wrote: I realize *why* the default constructor had to go, but no-arg didn't have to go with it. I think it was an accident to let it go, and we should be trying to fix this. I do not feel that there is a lot of reference-like types that take 0 arguments at construction. Any meaningful examples? About checking for was initialized it is indeed painful, yet I believe even C++ is in the same boat (empty shared_ptr?). Also I do suspect that in the majority of cases these are just asserts since they aim to catch logic errors in code. Having a way to ensure initialization statically would be nice. Currently only @disabling this() would achieve that but I suspect it's somewhat bogus ATM. In fact having @disable this() undermines the argument for always have T.init strategy as generic code now have to deal with both cases. Could I get some feedback so I could make a formal and thorough enhancement request? I'd rather see static opCall go and be replaced with no-arg constructor. But this alone doesn't bring much benefit (if any). -- Dmitry Olshansky
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 18:08:15 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky
wrote:
On 19-Sep-12 15:52, monarch_dodra wrote:
I realize *why* the default constructor had to go, but
no-arg didn't
have to go with it. I think it was an accident to let it go,
and we
should be trying to fix this.
I do not feel that there is a lot of reference-like types that
take 0 arguments at construction. Any meaningful examples?
There are not a lot currently. RefCounted is. PRNG should
arguably be migrated to them. Containers are kind of a hybrid
(but this seems to be more of a implementation detail than by
concept).
About checking for was initialized it is indeed painful, yet
I believe even C++ is in the same boat (empty shared_ptr?).
Also I do suspect that in the majority of cases these are just
asserts since they aim to catch logic errors in code.
No, because C++ has default constructor. Regarding D's logic
error, the problem is that the lack of no-arg underminds the
definition of logic error: More below!
Having a way to ensure initialization statically would be nice.
Currently only @disabling this() would achieve that but I
suspect it's somewhat bogus ATM.
In fact having @disable this() undermines the argument for
always have T.init strategy as generic code now have to deal
with both cases.
Could I get some feedback so I could make a formal and thorough
enhancement request?
I'd rather see static opCall go and be replaced with no-arg
constructor. But this alone doesn't bring much benefit (if any).
Here is a concrete example:
import std.random, std.typeconv;
void main()
{
alias RefCounted!(int, RefCountedAutoInitialize.no) RCI;
//RefCountedInt
RCI a; //NOT initialized
RCI b = RefCounted!int(15); //Initialized
RCI c = RefCounted!int(); //Initialized to int.init ... ?
int i;
i = a; //Logic error
i = b; //Ok
i = c; //Logic error?
}
The issue here is with c. Arguably, it was not initialized.
Arguably, the intent was, as opposed to a, to initialize it to
it's default value. At that point, is trying to read c a logic
error? And if it is, can you really blame the user?
Same example with PRNG:
void main()
{
alias ... PRNG;
PRNG a; //NOT Seeded
PRNG b = RefCounted!int(15); //Seeded
PRNG c = RefCounted!int(); //Seeded with default seed...?
a.front(); //Logic error
b.front(); //Ok
c.front(); //Logic error?
}
Ditto. Will the user really understand that b was seeded, yet c
wasn't. This is even more ambiguous that PRNG *does* have a
seed() method with a default seed
I know for a FACT that _I_ would have expected c to be default
seeded. This makes the prng *VERY* ambiguous about whether or not
it was seeded :/
Basically:
To seed with 15: PRNG b = RefCounted!int(15); //Seeded, yay
To default seed: PRNG c = RefCounted!int(); c.seed(); // What...?
The opCall hack would fix the issue in the above example, but as
stated in the previous thread, it is just that, a hack: You can't
use it to construct inplace with emplace!(T, Args...), nor can
you take it's address, nor can you use it to new it (should you
ever want to do that.)
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 17:29:17 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:02:24PM +0200, Timon Gehr wrote: The issue is that in one case you know how to fix it and in the other one you do not (and you care less about it because you prefer to think Windows is superior as it is what you use '99% of the time'), not that the problems are inherently (un)fixable. Yeah, that's one of the things that irks me about Windows culture. It's touted as being user-friendly and easy to use, etc., but actually it requires just as much effort as learning to use Linux. People complain about how Linux is hard to use or things break for no reason, but the same thing happens with Windows -- you either do things the Windows way (which requires that you learn what it is), or you quickly run into a whole bunch of gratuitous incompatibilities and bugs that nobody cares about because you aren't supposed to do things that way. Yeah, they're fixable by your definition all right. It's just that when you ask people how, either no one you ask knows why, or they try to convince you that you're an idiot for even thinking about asking. Relevant examples: It's next-to-impossible to go on a forum and ask about fixing a boot-sector GRUB install without some fool coming along and diverting the entire thread into Why the hell isn't GRUB installed on your MBR? When you have a (God forbid!) space character in your directory/file names and some program chokes on it? Stop putting spaces in your file names. When you ask how to make a passwordless account or how to obtain permanent root privileges? Are you insane?! When you ask if there is a defragmenter for Linux? Some fool comes along and says Linux doesn't need defragmentation! When you ask why the fonts are blurry? It's just different, you're just picky. Get used to it. When you ask why the touchpad is so darn hypersensitive? Modify the source code. Bottom line: Yeah, there's _always_ way to fix your problems, if by fixing the problem you mean rewriting the OS. It's pretty damn hard to convince Linux users that what you're trying to do is, in fact, not out of stupidity/ignorance. (I tried switching the mouse to sloppy focus once... and never dared try it again.) What's sloppy focus?
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 9/19/2012 1:37 AM, Mehrdad wrote: What exactly do you guys _do_ with your computer that suddenly breaks the power supplies?! Maybe I'm just too young to know, but I've never seen a power supply break... The symptoms I had are it just won't turn on. What I do? Take the old one out, got to the computer store or the computer recycler, and look for a matching one. The recycler is great for older ones not made anymore, I can get a replacement for $10 or so. Sometimes, I have to modify the case to get it to fit.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On 9/19/2012 2:47 AM, monarch_dodra wrote: I have about 2 laptops at home, whose batteries are left with, literally, 0 charge. Even a simple split second power cut, and they fill turn off :( Yeah, my ancient laptop's batteries are good for maybe a second on full charge.
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
Le 19/09/2012 20:09, Dmitry Olshansky a écrit : On 19-Sep-12 15:52, monarch_dodra wrote: I realize *why* the default constructor had to go, but no-arg didn't have to go with it. I think it was an accident to let it go, and we should be trying to fix this. I do not feel that there is a lot of reference-like types that take 0 arguments at construction. Any meaningful examples? A use case I encountered more than once is interfacing with C++. Another is to create an argument-less initializer that forward to another one with default arguments.
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On 2012-09-19 09:58, Jonathan M Davis wrote: util is one of the worst package names ever, because it means basically nothing. Any function could go in there. Well, the util package in Phobos is called std. As for a time/date package, we already have std.datetime (which will hopefully be split into the package std.datetime at some point, but we need something like DIP 15 or 16 before we can do that), and we're moving the benchmarking _out_ of there. If std.datetime were already a package, then maybe putting it in there would make some sense, but benchmarking is arguably fundamentally different from what the rest of std.datetime does. I really so no problem with benchmarking being its own thing, and std.benchmark works just fine for that. I just think we have too many top level modules. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On 2012-09-19 11:38, Peter Alexander wrote: The problem with slowest is that you end up with the occasional OS hiccup or GC collection which throws the entire benchmark off. I see your point, but unless you can prevent the OS from interrupting, the time would be meaningless. That's way the average is good to have as well. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 08:28:36 UTC, Manu wrote: On 19 September 2012 01:02, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: On 9/18/12 5:07 PM, Øivind wrote: * For all tests, the best run is selected, but would it not be reasonable in some cases to get the average value? Maybe excluding the runs that are more than a couple std. deviations away from the mean value.. After extensive tests with a variety of aggregate functions, I can say firmly that taking the minimum time is by far the best when it comes to assessing the speed of a function. The fastest execution time is rarely useful to me, I'm almost always much more interested in the slowest execution time. In realtime software, the slowest time is often the only important factor, everything must be designed to tolerate this possibility. I can also imagine other situations where multiple workloads are competing for time, the average time may be more useful in that case. For comparison's sake, the Criterion benchmarking package for Haskell is worth a look: http://www.serpentine.com/blog/2009/09/29/criterion-a-new-benchmarking-library-for-haskell/ Criterion accounts for clock-call costs, displays various central tendencies, reports outliers (and their significance --- whether the variance is significantly affected by the outliers), etc., etc. It's a very well conceived benchmarking system, and might well be worth stealing from. Best, Graham
Re: Review of Andrei's std.benchmark
New question for you :) To register benchmarks, the 'scheduleForBenchmarking' mixin inserts a shared static initializer into the module. If I have a module A and a module B, that both depend on eachother, than this will probably not work..? The runtime will detect the init cycle and fail with the following error: Cycle detected between modules with ctors/dtors Or am I wrong now?
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 08:49:58PM +0200, Mehrdad wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 17:29:17 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:02:24PM +0200, Timon Gehr wrote: The issue is that in one case you know how to fix it and in the other one you do not (and you care less about it because you prefer to think Windows is superior as it is what you use '99% of the time'), not that the problems are inherently (un)fixable. Yeah, that's one of the things that irks me about Windows culture. It's touted as being user-friendly and easy to use, etc., but actually it requires just as much effort as learning to use Linux. People complain about how Linux is hard to use or things break for no reason, but the same thing happens with Windows -- you either do things the Windows way (which requires that you learn what it is), or you quickly run into a whole bunch of gratuitous incompatibilities and bugs that nobody cares about because you aren't supposed to do things that way. Yeah, they're fixable by your definition all right. It's just that when you ask people how, either no one you ask knows why, or they try to convince you that you're an idiot for even thinking about asking. How do I use Windows without a GUI? What are you, an idiot?! Relevant examples: It's next-to-impossible to go on a forum and ask about fixing a boot-sector GRUB install without some fool coming along and diverting the entire thread into Why the hell isn't GRUB installed on your MBR? When you have a (God forbid!) space character in your directory/file names and some program chokes on it? Stop putting spaces in your file names. When you ask how to make a passwordless account or how to obtain permanent root privileges? Are you insane?! When you ask if there is a defragmenter for Linux? Some fool comes along and says Linux doesn't need defragmentation! When you ask why the fonts are blurry? It's just different, you're just picky. Get used to it. When you ask why the touchpad is so darn hypersensitive? Modify the source code. Why can't I do things the Linux way on Windows? Because it's not Linux, you fool. Bottom line: Yeah, there's _always_ way to fix your problems, if by fixing the problem you mean rewriting the OS. We have the option of rewriting the OS, or any of its parts thereof. Yes you may have to (gosh!) spend time learning how the thing works and how to make it do what you want. But at least it's _possible_. You couldn't rewrite Windows even if you knew how. Besides, most of the problems you listed are a result of trying to do things the Windows way on a system that *isn't* Windows. I bet I'll get exactly the same responses if I started asking Windows forums how to make Windows behave like Linux. It all comes down to preference. I can't stand *any* kind of GUI, much less the straitjacketed non-configurable (not without massive breakage) kind of GUI that Windows offers. I do stuff on the shell that no GUI can ever hope to achieve, and I like it that way. I prefer to communicate in complete sentences rather than point-n-grunt. But I don't pretend that everybody else feels the same way. With Linux I can twist it and warp it until X11 behaves like a glorified console. Or like a 3D desktop, if I cared for that sorta thing. Heck, I've even contemplated writing a _4D_ window manager, for that matter. With Windows, I have no choice. I have to use a GUI, and a Windows-style GUI at that. Try to change the way it behaves, and everything breaks. The Windows way is shoved down my throat whether I like it or not. So guess which system I prefer to use? It's pretty damn hard to convince Linux users that what you're trying to do is, in fact, not out of stupidity/ignorance. It's pretty damn hard to convince Windows zealots that anything but the Windows way is not out of stupidity/ignorance. (I tried switching the mouse to sloppy focus once... and never dared try it again.) What's sloppy focus? The window focus automatically changes to whatever window the mouse is currently hovering over. Preferably WITHOUT automatically bringing said window to the top. (Good luck making this work on Windows. And once you actually manage to coax Windows to do it, have fun seeing the train wreck that is your applications once you start using them this way.) T -- INTEL = Only half of intelligence.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:11:50 -0400 Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 01:34:12 -0400, Nick Sabalausky seewebsitetocontac...@semitwist.com wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:46:35 -0400 Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: The keyboard click sound (which you can disable BTW, settings-sounds-keyboard clicks) obeys the ringer volume. Ehh? How unintuitive. I cannot argue that Apple's audio volume isn't too simplistic for its own good. AIUI, they have two volumes, one for the ringer, and one for playing audio, games, videos, etc. There's also a separate one for alarms/alerts: http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/12/01/13/user.unaware.that.alarm.going.off.was.his/ And Jobs-only-knows what else. Apple actually thought that was a good idea. Plus, my understanding is that one of Apple's explicit design principles is that if an user-prompted action is something that's expected to make a sound (by whatever *Apple* decides is expected, naturally), then to hell with the user's volume setting, it should make a sound anyway. It's just unbelievably convoluted, over-engineered, and as far from simple as could possibly be imagined. Basically, you have volume up and volume down, but there's so much damn modality (something Apple *loves*, but it almost universally bad for UI design) that they work pretty much randomly. I think the main problem is that the volume rules are just far too convoluted. They took something trivial and hacked it up beyond recognition, and all in the supposed name of simplicity, go figure. I think if they simply made the volume buttons control the ringer while locked and not playing music, it would solve the problem. I very much disagree. Then when you take it out to use it, everything will *still* be surprisingly too loud (or quiet). Just not when a call comes in... BTW, a cool feature I didn't know for a long time is if you double tap the home button, your audio controls appear on the lock screen (play/pause, next previous song, and audio volume). But I think you have to unlock to access ringer volume. That's good to know (I didn't know). Unfortunately, it still only eliminates one, maybe two, swipes from an already-complex procedure, that on any sensible device would have been one step: Reach down into the pocket to adjust the volume. It's more moving parts to break. I wouldn't like it. Just my opinion. How often has anyone ever had a volume POT go bad? I don't think I've *ever* even had it happen. It's a solid, well-established technology. If it were my own personal device, I'd just jailbreak it and be done with it. (And then pay the ransom to publish, of course, because what else can you do? Create your own device and compete with Apple under capitalism? Nope, Google tried that idea of competition and look what happened: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/technology/jury-reaches-decision-in-apple-samsung-patent-trial.html?_r=1ref=technology ) If you want to develop for only jailbroken phones, you basically alienate most users of iPhone. It's not a viable business model IMO. Yes, it sucks to have to jump through apple's hoops, but having access to millions of users is very much worth it. No, no, no, I'd jailbreak it for *testing*. Like I said, I'd begrudgingly still pay Apple's ransom for publishing, because what other realistic option is there? Oh, when you develop apps, it's quite easy to install on the phone, you just click run from xcode, selecting your device, you don't ever have to start itunes (though itunes will auto-start every time you plug in the phone, but you can disable this in itunes, more annoying is that iPhoto *always* starts, I can't figure out how to stop that). From then on, the app is installed. The issue is setting up all the certificates via xcode and their web portal to get that to work (should only have to do this once). I think the process has streamlined a bit, you used to have to create an app id for each app and select which devices were authorized to install it. Now I think you get a wildcard app id, but you still have to register each device. I don't use a mac, and I never will again. I spent about a year or two with OSX last decade and I'll never go back for *any* reason. Liked it at first, but the more I used it the more I hated it. Fortunately, I'm developing with Marmalade, so I don't have to even have a mac at all (not only that, I don't need to touch any Objective-C, either). Now that I've actually had some sleep, ;), I remember now that since Marmalade's deployment tool can code-sign (assuming you paid the ransom for Apple's dev cert) and install direct to the device, so you're right, I don't need iTunes after all. Apple still requires a mac to submit to the app store, but luckily my boss has a mac, and he's going to be doing the submitting anyway. So I don't even have to touch one of those wretched
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:49:58 +0200 Mehrdad wfunct...@hotmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 17:29:17 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:02:24PM +0200, Timon Gehr wrote: The issue is that in one case you know how to fix it and in the other one you do not (and you care less about it because you prefer to think Windows is superior as it is what you use '99% of the time'), not that the problems are inherently (un)fixable. Yeah, that's one of the things that irks me about Windows culture. It's touted as being user-friendly and easy to use, etc., but actually it requires just as much effort as learning to use Linux. People complain about how Linux is hard to use or things break for no reason, but the same thing happens with Windows -- you either do things the Windows way (which requires that you learn what it is), or you quickly run into a whole bunch of gratuitous incompatibilities and bugs that nobody cares about because you aren't supposed to do things that way. Yeah, they're fixable by your definition all right. It's just that when you ask people how, either no one you ask knows why, or they try to convince you that you're an idiot for even thinking about asking. Relevant examples: It's next-to-impossible to go on a forum and ask about fixing a boot-sector GRUB install without some fool coming along and diverting the entire thread into Why the hell isn't GRUB installed on your MBR? When you have a (God forbid!) space character in your directory/file names and some program chokes on it? Stop putting spaces in your file names. When you ask how to make a passwordless account or how to obtain permanent root privileges? Are you insane?! When you ask if there is a defragmenter for Linux? Some fool comes along and says Linux doesn't need defragmentation! When you ask why the fonts are blurry? It's just different, you're just picky. Get used to it. When you ask why the touchpad is so darn hypersensitive? Modify the source code. Yea, as much as there is I like about Linux (and I intend to switch to it for my primary system), I've always considered the culture surrounding it to be one of Linux's biggest liabilities. You should have seen the shitstorm I had to put up with when inquiring about a text-mode editor (so I could use it through SSH) that worked more like Kate/Gedit and less like VI/Emacs/Nano. Of course, I did make the mistake of *mentioning* the forbidden word: Windows. But still, I mean, grow up people: it's a fucking OS, not a religion. (I even got responses that outright ignored the text-mode part and suggested various GUI editors.) There are certainly *good* helpful mature users too, though. It'd be unfair, and patently untrue, for me to say that *all* the Linux culture is screwy like that. But there's too much.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 21:30:58 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:49:58 +0200 Mehrdad wfunct...@hotmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 17:29:17 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:02:24PM +0200, Timon Gehr wrote: The issue is that in one case you know how to fix it and in the other one you do not (and you care less about it because you prefer to think Windows is superior as it is what you use '99% of the time'), not that the problems are inherently (un)fixable. Yeah, that's one of the things that irks me about Windows culture. It's touted as being user-friendly and easy to use, etc., but actually it requires just as much effort as learning to use Linux. People complain about how Linux is hard to use or things break for no reason, but the same thing happens with Windows -- you either do things the Windows way (which requires that you learn what it is), or you quickly run into a whole bunch of gratuitous incompatibilities and bugs that nobody cares about because you aren't supposed to do things that way. Yeah, they're fixable by your definition all right. It's just that when you ask people how, either no one you ask knows why, or they try to convince you that you're an idiot for even thinking about asking. Relevant examples: It's next-to-impossible to go on a forum and ask about fixing a boot-sector GRUB install without some fool coming along and diverting the entire thread into Why the hell isn't GRUB installed on your MBR? When you have a (God forbid!) space character in your directory/file names and some program chokes on it? Stop putting spaces in your file names. When you ask how to make a passwordless account or how to obtain permanent root privileges? Are you insane?! When you ask if there is a defragmenter for Linux? Some fool comes along and says Linux doesn't need defragmentation! When you ask why the fonts are blurry? It's just different, you're just picky. Get used to it. When you ask why the touchpad is so darn hypersensitive? Modify the source code. Yea, as much as there is I like about Linux (and I intend to switch to it for my primary system), I've always considered the culture surrounding it to be one of Linux's biggest liabilities. You should have seen the shitstorm I had to put up with when inquiring about a text-mode editor (so I could use it through SSH) that worked more like Kate/Gedit and less like VI/Emacs/Nano. Of course, I did make the mistake of *mentioning* the forbidden word: Windows. But still, I mean, grow up people: it's a fucking OS, not a religion. +1
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:38:32 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 08:49:58PM +0200, Mehrdad wrote: It's pretty damn hard to convince Linux users that what you're trying to do is, in fact, not out of stupidity/ignorance. It's pretty damn hard to convince Windows zealots that anything but the Windows way is not out of stupidity/ignorance. Windows zealots are pretty rare though. Most Windows users accept that it's just an OS, and that it has its problems and downsides. (It'd be pretty hard to be a Windows user and *not* accept that Windows has it's problems.) (I tried switching the mouse to sloppy focus once... and never dared try it again.) What's sloppy focus? The window focus automatically changes to whatever window the mouse is currently hovering over. Preferably WITHOUT automatically bringing said window to the top. (Good luck making this work on Windows. And once you actually manage to coax Windows to do it, have fun seeing the train wreck that is your applications once you start using them this way.) Not exactly what you described, but similar: http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ When I point at something and scroll, I expect my *target* to scroll, not whatever the hell random thing I just happened to have clicked on last. I would *HATE* using windows if I didn't have that. Unfortunately, it doesn't *always* work on Win7 (usually does, though). Works great on XP. But I agree, trying to do anything the non-Windows way on Windows involves stupid PITA hacking, that doesn't always work right, *if* it's even possible at all. And it's not *just* doing something the non-Windows way, it's even specific *versions* of windows: You can't even get things the WinXP way on Win7. Sure, *some* things you can, *sometimes*, with obscure hacks that don't even always work... Man, I'm really gonna have to get around to upgrading my laptop from Win7 back to XP sometime...Fuck this shit...
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
isn't it even worse?
import std.stdio;
struct S
{
int i;
this(void* p = null){this.i = 5;}
}
void main()
{
//S l(); //gives a linker error
auto k = S();
writeln(k.i); //prints 0
}
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
monarch_dodra:
struct S
{
int* p;
}
struct S2
{
int* p;
this(int){};
}
void main()
{
S a;
S* pa;
//auto b = S;
auto pb = new S;
auto c = S.init;
//auto pc = ???
auto d = S();
auto pd = new S();
auto e = S2(5);
auto pe = new S2(5);
}
Tangential to your discussion: this needs to be allowed, because
this removes one unnecessary special case/limit, avoiding the
need to write some stupid boilerplate constructor code (I have
written tons of those):
struct Foo {
int x, y;
}
void main() {
auto f = new Foo(5, 10);
}
The currently usable workaround is silly in a language like D:
struct Foo {
int x, y;
}
void main() {
auto f = new Foo;
*f = Foo(5, 10);
}
Bye,
bearophile
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 05:51:31PM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:38:32 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 08:49:58PM +0200, Mehrdad wrote: It's pretty damn hard to convince Linux users that what you're trying to do is, in fact, not out of stupidity/ignorance. It's pretty damn hard to convince Windows zealots that anything but the Windows way is not out of stupidity/ignorance. Windows zealots are pretty rare though. Most Windows users accept that it's just an OS, and that it has its problems and downsides. (It'd be pretty hard to be a Windows user and *not* accept that Windows has it's problems.) Haha, true! [...] What's sloppy focus? The window focus automatically changes to whatever window the mouse is currently hovering over. Preferably WITHOUT automatically bringing said window to the top. (Good luck making this work on Windows. And once you actually manage to coax Windows to do it, have fun seeing the train wreck that is your applications once you start using them this way.) Not exactly what you described, but similar: http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ When I point at something and scroll, I expect my *target* to scroll, not whatever the hell random thing I just happened to have clicked on last. Yeah, another annoyance -- not with Windows specifically but with GUI apps in general -- is the search function more often than not has an invisible cursor from which the next search begins, which may be COMPLETELY unrelated to what you're currently looking at (e.g. if you scrolled the screen after the previous search). Or a new search always starts from the top of the document/page/whatever regardless of where you currently are. This is completely counterintuitive and stupid, and makes it a royal pain esp. when you want to search starting from a specific location. I would *HATE* using windows if I didn't have that. Unfortunately, it doesn't *always* work on Win7 (usually does, though). Works great on XP. But I agree, trying to do anything the non-Windows way on Windows involves stupid PITA hacking, that doesn't always work right, *if* it's even possible at all. Yeah, after attempting to do sloppy focus on Windows, I crawled back into a dark corner and wept silently as I conceded to doing things the Windows way. And it's not *just* doing something the non-Windows way, it's even specific *versions* of windows: You can't even get things the WinXP way on Win7. Sure, *some* things you can, *sometimes*, with obscure hacks that don't even always work... Yeah that's what I meant by hood welded shut. Although it's probably more like hood booby-trapped shut, open at your own risk. :-P Man, I'm really gonna have to get around to upgrading my laptop from Win7 back to XP sometime...Fuck this shit... Upgrading back to XP, lol! T -- Windows 95 was a joke, and Windows 98 was the punchline.
dlang.org went down momentarily?
Did dlang.org just crash, then display an intermittent Yay it works message, and then recover? Just making sure it isn't the corporate firewall transparent proxy that's acting up. Nowadays you can't always tell. :-P T -- If a person can't communicate, the very least he could do is to shut up. -- Tom Lehrer, on people who bemoan their communication woes with their loved ones.
Re: no-arg constructor for structs (again)
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 00:12:04 Felix Hufnagel wrote:
isn't it even worse?
import std.stdio;
struct S
{
int i;
this(void* p = null){this.i = 5;}
}
void main()
{
//S l(); //gives a linker error
auto k = S();
writeln(k.i); //prints 0
}
Of course that generates a linker error. You just declared a function without
a body.
- Jonathan M Davis
Re: classes structs
On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 18:42:33 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote: On 09/18/2012 07:07 AM, David Currie wrote: [ALL CAPS] It does not matter who is the loudest guy in the room. If you have a point to make, just make it. (Stating the conclusion is not making a point. Skipping forward and predicting polite refusal does not help.) Most of the statements in the OP are inaccurate. The best way to get in touch with the language is by reading the online documentation and by experimenting with the compiler (prepare for some bugs and unspecified corner cases). Reading the newsgroup helps too. Usually it is best to double-check any claims about the language expressed online, using the reference implementation. Apologies for SHOUTING. I am unfamiliar with forum syntax and etiquette I merely wished *stressing* some words. What is OP and perhaps why are most statements inaccurate? How does one get to the newsgroups. I only got here because Walter gave me a link. I would gratefully welcome links.
Re: classes structs
I just wanted to reiterate what Steven has said here. If you will learn D with a plan to change it to your desires, you will be disappointed. That is not to say give no feedback, or attempt no change. For one, you are coming in way to late for a good number of changes (including when we go to v3). Steven already covered the other. You will find that a lot has already been discussed, and many here have had their share of desires turned down. But we are here because D is not just moving in the right direction, for many it is already has great use-cases. So welcome, and hopefully you'll stay.
Re: classes structs
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 at 01:42:26 UTC, David Currie wrote: On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 18:42:33 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote: On 09/18/2012 07:07 AM, David Currie wrote: [ALL CAPS] It does not matter who is the loudest guy in the room. If you have a point to make, just make it. (Stating the conclusion is not making a point. Skipping forward and predicting polite refusal does not help.) Most of the statements in the OP are inaccurate. The best way to get in touch with the language is by reading the online documentation and by experimenting with the compiler (prepare for some bugs and unspecified corner cases). Reading the newsgroup helps too. Usually it is best to double-check any claims about the language expressed online, using the reference implementation. Apologies for SHOUTING. I am unfamiliar with forum syntax and etiquette I merely wished *stressing* some words. What is OP and perhaps why are most statements inaccurate? How does one get to the newsgroups. I only got here because Walter gave me a link. I would gratefully welcome links. OP = Original Post(er). They use a lot of abbreviations I don't know here: acronymfinder.com is your friend. The only inaccurate statement I noticed was that class constructors are called (null is the default). NMS
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:38:32 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: I prefer to communicate in complete sentences rather than point-n-grunt. That's great :) I like both CLI and GUI, depending on what I'm doing, but that's really good.
Re: [OT] Was: totally satisfied :D
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 01:15:32AM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:38:32 -0700 H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: I prefer to communicate in complete sentences rather than point-n-grunt. That's great :) I like both CLI and GUI, depending on what I'm doing, but that's really good. Well, I was being a bit over the top. :-P GUIs do have their place, such as when you're dealing with, say, 3D CADs or inherently graphical tasks. But IMNSHO, GUIs are overused for tasks that they aren't necessarily the best interface for. I cringe everytime I have to construct an expression (boolean or otherwise) using a hilariously convoluted GUI dialogue with all manner of drop boxes and other assorted widgets---or worse, a deeply-nested set of menus that you have to wade through for every single term in the expression---when I could've just typed out the expression on the keyboard in less than 1/10 of the time it takes to point-n-grunt it out. Makes me feel like trying to write D code in KR C, or worse, PHP. :-P (There goes my feeble attempt at bringing this back on topic.) T -- The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners... -- Slashdotter
Re: splitting numbers from a test file
On 09/18/2012 09:56 PM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 04:03:44 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: The documentation says that it returns a range. From: http://dlang.org/phobos/std_array.html#splitter The documentation (copied and pasted) for splitter reads: auto splitter(C)(C[] s); Splits a string by whitespace. Example: auto a = a bcd ef gh ; assert(equal(splitter(a), [, a, bcd, ef, gh][])); It is unfortunate that there is also the other splitter, which at least implies ranges: :-/ http://dlang.org/phobos/std_algorithm.html#splitter Yes, the documentation can be much better. For example, the documentation for the second splitter above looks exacly like the other one, except that one says using an element as a separator. while the other one says using another range as a separator. I think it is a ddoc limitation: Template constraints are not included in documentation yet. Ali
Re: Can't install DMD 2.060 on OS X 10.6.8
On 2012-09-18 19:55, Elias Zamaria wrote: How can I get permission to run sudo. I thought that sudo was the command required to get permission to run other things. Is there a catch-22? In any case, why am I having this problem, and why don't I see any hint that anyone else is experiencing it? I just tried the installer on 10.6.3 and I got the same error. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with that the installer is, most likely, created on a newer version of Mac OS X. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Problem with environ variable (Mac OS X)
I tried to create a JNI library that - via C - accesses a D function. Calling D from C is not a problem, but when the whole stuff is wrapped into a JNI library, I get the following error message: Error: Undefined symbols: _environ, referenced from: _environ$non_lazy_ptr in libphobos2.a(process_61b_495.o) (maybe you meant: _environ$non_lazy_ptr) I know it's a Mac specific thing and a fix exists (cf. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnulib/manual/html_node/environ.html), however it doesn't work in my case. process.d accesses environ in a similar way. I am not sure whether I get it all wrong, or whether it isn't possible at all to do the JNI-C-D thing. I have also read somewhere that JNI could be created directly using D, I haven't found an example, though. Does anyone know anything about it? This would of course be more convenient.
move object from heap to stack
Is that possible? I can initialize an object with scope or, in feature, with scoped, directly on the stack but is it also possible to move an existing object from the heap to the stack?
Re: move object from heap to stack
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 13:32:42 UTC, Namespace wrote: Is that possible? I can initialize an object with scope or, in feature, with scoped, directly on the stack but is it also possible to move an existing object from the heap to the stack? I tried this: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/2955ff41 But as you can see in line 25/26, after I destroyed the heap object, the stack object seems to be corrupted.
Re: move object from heap to stack
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:45:21 +0200, Namespace rswhi...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 13:32:42 UTC, Namespace wrote: Is that possible? I can initialize an object with scope or, in feature, with scoped, directly on the stack but is it also possible to move an existing object from the heap to the stack? I tried this: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/2955ff41 But as you can see in line 25/26, after I destroyed the heap object, the stack object seems to be corrupted. The problem here is that A.sizeof returns the size of the reference, not the instance. Instead you should use __traits(classInstanceSize, A). Also, do have a look at the internals of std.typecons.scoped, it likely contains some good ideas. -- Simen
Re: move object from heap to stack
Thanks, I will use __traits(classInstanceSize, A); But it does not work either.
D object model
One of the problems with wrapping C++ is wrapping multiple-inheritance
classes. You could simulate these with interfaces, e.g.:
interface IRoot { }
interface IBase1 : IRoot { }
interface IBase2 : IRoot { }
class Base1 : IBase1 { void* cppObj; }
class Base2 : IBase2 { void* cppObj; }
class MIClass : IBase1, IBase2 { void* cppObj; }
Now to define a function that can be called with an object instance of
any class in the tree, you can use:
void foo(IRoot obj) { }
Typically every wrapper D class will have an associated pointer to a
C++ object as a void* field (hence that cppObj field up there). This
is to allow invoking C++ library methods on the underlying C++ object,
e.g.:
class Base1 : IBase1
{
void* cppObj;
void invokeMethod(IBase1 objArg)
{
extern_c_invokeMethod(this.cppObj, objArg.getCppObj());
}
}
The above allows invokeMethod to be called with any IBase1-inherited
class (IBase1 or MIClass). Note that changing IBase1 objArg to
Base1 objArg would mean the method can't be invoked with an MIClass
instance (but it would allow direct access to the .cppObj field).
The problem here is performance. Interfaces don't hold state, so
classes which inherit from interfaces have to implement a special
getCppObj() method which returns the cppObj field. That means
retrieving cppObj is a virtual call instead of a simple field lookup.
My question is: I I have the definition of *all* the D classes in the
library (+ I control how they're inherited since they're
autogenerated) is it possible to cheat and retrieve the .cppObj field
from an interface parameter without going through a virtual call?
Obviously this would be implementation-dependent, but remember that
all the wrapper D classes would only hold 1 field (cppObj), so I was
hoping using a hack would be somewhat reliable. Here's one way to
cheat:
http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/fd794170
That trick would only be used for the wrapper classes. What I don't
know is, *under what circumstances does it break*? If I knew for sure
that a certain object layout always guarantees this trick to work,
then I could configure my codegenerator to always generate wrapper
code that would make this trick reliable. It could be a good
performance win.
Re: splitting numbers from a test file
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 06:09:38 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 09/18/2012 09:56 PM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 04:03:44 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: The documentation says that it returns a range. From: http://dlang.org/phobos/std_array.html#splitter The documentation (copied and pasted) for splitter reads: auto splitter(C)(C[] s); Splits a string by whitespace. Example: auto a = a bcd ef gh ; assert(equal(splitter(a), [, a, bcd, ef, gh][])); It is unfortunate that there is also the other splitter, which at least implies ranges: :-/ http://dlang.org/phobos/std_algorithm.html#splitter Yes, the documentation can be much better. For example, the documentation for the second splitter above looks exacly like the other one, except that one says using an element as a separator. while the other one says using another range as a separator. I think it is a ddoc limitation: Template constraints are not included in documentation yet. Ali Ali and Johnathan: Thank you for your help. Also Ali thanks for your book, motivated by this little problem I've started reading your Chapter on ranges. It is very helpful. Cheers, Craig
Re: Problem with environ variable (Mac OS X)
On 2012-09-19 12:35, Chris wrote: I tried to create a JNI library that - via C - accesses a D function. Calling D from C is not a problem, but when the whole stuff is wrapped into a JNI library, I get the following error message: Error: Undefined symbols: _environ, referenced from: _environ$non_lazy_ptr in libphobos2.a(process_61b_495.o) (maybe you meant: _environ$non_lazy_ptr) I know it's a Mac specific thing and a fix exists (cf. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnulib/manual/html_node/environ.html), however it doesn't work in my case. process.d accesses environ in a similar way. I am not sure whether I get it all wrong, or whether it isn't possible at all to do the JNI-C-D thing. I have also read somewhere that JNI could be created directly using D, I haven't found an example, though. Does anyone know anything about it? This would of course be more convenient. A fix for that was applied last year. Which version of the compiler are you using? https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/blob/master/std/process.d#L60 -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: splitting numbers from a test file
On 09/19/2012 10:22 AM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: Thank you for your help. Also Ali thanks for your book, motivated by this little problem I've started reading your Chapter on ranges. It is very helpful. Thank you. :) Obviously, I am aware of its shortcomings. Especially, the difference between a container and a range must be stressed. The chapter touches on that idea at different places but I don't think it is spelled out sufficiently. To be improved some time in the future... :) Ali
Writing/Reading Compressed Binary Files
D Helpers, I have a ton of huge financial data to process and analyze statistically. I am looking for the best way to store/retrieve the data for processing. I am wondering how to write the data to a compressed binary file and then later read from that same file for processing. I can read/write the binary data just fine, but how to do it with compression? I appreciate your help and suggestions. TJB
Re: Writing/Reading Compressed Binary Files
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:48:49 +0200, TJB wrote: D Helpers, I have a ton of huge financial data to process and analyze statistically. I am looking for the best way to store/retrieve the data for processing. I am wondering how to write the data to a compressed binary file and then later read from that same file for processing. I can read/write the binary data just fine, but how to do it with compression? I appreciate your help and suggestions. TJB Take a look at std.zip and std.zlib. Personally, I use LZO which is incredibly fast and pretty easy to wrap (it's a C lib). Using LZO takes a little more work (you need split the data into chunks, manually store compressed/uncompressed lengths, etc.), so the easy route is to use std.zlib.
Re: move object from heap to stack
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 17:08:28 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 14:16:31 UTC, Namespace wrote: Thanks, I will use __traits(classInstanceSize, A); But it does not work either. This is because classes are already pointers. when you write a, you are getting the address of pointer itself. So when you memcopy, don't use a, but use cast(void*)a. What you were currently doing was memcopying the pointer to a into your chunk. From there, since you were casting to A*, everything worked and was legal, but you still only had 1 class intance. Your destroying that instance made your ap crash. this works: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/8ba1f457 I forget this. Thank you! IMO something like this should exist in phobos. A more flexible version of scoped also.
Running unittests in a D library
Hey all,
I'm sure that this is a rather daft question but I've tried to
search the d.learn mailing list and must have missed a question
about it.
I've read the unit testing documentation on dlang.org and I know
that `unittest { /* some code */ }` blocks are compiled into the
executable and executed after static initialization and before
the main() function is called. This makes sense in an application
but how does this apply to a library?
For example, writing a D library using DMD's `-lib` compiler
flag, how do I run the unit tests in the generated library?
Cheers,
Chris
Re: Running unittests in a D library
Actually after more digging it seems that unit testing libraries
in D doesn't work.
It seems pretty bad that in 2012 with unit testing a huge part of
the software development process and D describing itself as a
language with unit testing built in, this bug report / feature
request hasn't been addressed:
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4669
Is there any update on the status of this enhancement? Is there a
recommended workaround to unit test a D library?
Cheers,
Chris
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 18:49:12 UTC, Chris Molozian
wrote:
Hey all,
I'm sure that this is a rather daft question but I've tried to
search the d.learn mailing list and must have missed a question
about it.
I've read the unit testing documentation on dlang.org and I
know that `unittest { /* some code */ }` blocks are compiled
into the executable and executed after static initialization
and before the main() function is called. This makes sense in
an application but how does this apply to a library?
For example, writing a D library using DMD's `-lib` compiler
flag, how do I run the unit tests in the generated library?
Cheers,
Chris
Re: move object from heap to stack
Result: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/24988d8f
Re: Running unittests in a D library
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 20:50:08 Chris Molozian wrote:
Hey all,
I'm sure that this is a rather daft question but I've tried to
search the d.learn mailing list and must have missed a question
about it.
I've read the unit testing documentation on dlang.org and I know
that `unittest { /* some code */ }` blocks are compiled into the
executable and executed after static initialization and before
the main() function is called. This makes sense in an application
but how does this apply to a library?
For example, writing a D library using DMD's `-lib` compiler
flag, how do I run the unit tests in the generated library?
You don't build it as a library when your unit testing it. You create an empty
main, compile it all as an executable, and run it. I believe that rdmd --main
will do this for you (rdmd comes with dmd), but I haven't really used rdmd, so
I'm not 100% certain.
- Jonathan M Davis
access enclosing type from shared static this()
I want to access the type of the enclosing struct in in a shared
static initializer.. How do I do that? The following code will
not compile:
mixin template MsgMixin(T ...) {
static string getName(this M)() {
return M.stringof;
}
shared static this() {
import std.stdio;
writeln(register ~ getName());
}
}
struct MsgTestMsg {
mixin MsgMixin!();
}
I get the following error messages:
src/main.d(40): Error: template
main.MsgTestMsg.MsgMixin!().getName does not match any function
template declaration
src/main.d(40): Error: template
main.MsgTestMsg.MsgMixin!().getName(this M) cannot deduce
template function from argument types !()()
If not possible, just getting the name of the enclosing struct
would help a lot!
-Øivind
Re: Running unittests in a D library
On 2012-09-19 21:34, Jonathan M Davis wrote: You don't build it as a library when your unit testing it. You create an empty main, compile it all as an executable, and run it. I believe that rdmd --main will do this for you (rdmd comes with dmd), but I haven't really used rdmd, so I'm not 100% certain. The problem in that bug report is you can't first compile your library as a library and then compile an executable using the library. According to the bug report it won't run the unittest blocks from the library. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: access enclosing type from shared static this()
If not possible, just getting the name of the enclosing struct would help a lot! -Øivind typeof(this).stringof This should do it
Re: access enclosing type from shared static this()
On 09/19/2012 09:37 PM, Øivind wrote:
I want to access the type of the enclosing struct in in a shared static
initializer.. How do I do that? The following code will not compile:
mixin template MsgMixin(T ...) {
static string getName(this M)() {
return M.stringof;
}
shared static this() {
import std.stdio;
writeln(register ~ getName());
}
}
struct MsgTestMsg {
mixin MsgMixin!();
}
I get the following error messages:
src/main.d(40): Error: template main.MsgTestMsg.MsgMixin!().getName does
not match any function template declaration
src/main.d(40): Error: template main.MsgTestMsg.MsgMixin!().getName(this
M) cannot deduce template function from argument types !()()
If not possible, just getting the name of the enclosing struct would
help a lot!
-Øivind
use typeof(this), eg:
mixin template MsgMixin(T ...) {
shared static this() {
import std.stdio;
writeln(register ~ typeof(this).stringof);
}
}
Re: move object from heap to stack
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 19:24:34 UTC, Namespace wrote:
Result:
http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/24988d8f
I like it, but how can something placed on the stack be reference
counted? The chunk is also placed on the stack, so it doesn't
really make sense to me: When the object goes out of scope, the
chunk goes, regardless of ref count. I think you should ditch the
whole ref count thing.
You'll also have to be aware of the dangers of putting a class
instance on the stack:
main()
{
A a;
{
stacked_obj!A so;
so.gen;
a = so.get;
}
a.print(); //-- undefined, with or without reference count
}
IE: Big red comment you should NEVER extract an instance from the
stack.
Re: access enclosing type from shared static this()
Thanks a lot both of you. The code below worked. I did not expect
'this' to be available in the static function, but of course the
type of 'this' is available.
mixin template MsgMixin(T ...) {
shared static this() {
import std.stdio;
writeln(register ~ typeof(this).stringof);
}
}
std.json: SkipWhitespace = false ?
Hi Everyone! I'm new to :D and have a small problem with std.json. If I use parseJSON() or toJSON() all whitespaces are removed. I would like it to have them preserved for better readability for users. In std.json.d various functions contain SkipWhitespace as parameter but that is not propagated to the toplevel functions. Are there any strong reasons for this behavior or can I rebuild it with SkipWhitespace = true? Or is there another way to work around it. Peter
static init cycle detection problem
I am struggeling to get around the cycle detection kicking in when I have static init in modules that depend on eachother. I have seen some threads on 'fixes' for this, e.g. adding a @standalone property to the module or similar. Has there been any progress on this? If not would it be possible in e.g. main() to get a list of all compiled-in modules, and then iterate over them and call an init function where it exists? As long as there is a way to list the name of the modules at compile-time, this should be pretty easy..? -Øivind
Re: undefined reference to `_D6deimos6python6Python12__ModuleInfoZ'
On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 04:56:27 UTC, Ellery Newcomer wrote: In a templated function in my header file, I make a call to enforce. When the function is not called [instantiated], all is well. When the function is called, it generates yon undefined reference to __ModuleInfoZ. I guess this is because D needs a pointer to the module in order to look up enforce? What does the call to enforce look like? The error isn't from the compiler so you are pulling in a symbol which isn't in your object files.
Re: std.json: SkipWhitespace = false ?
On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 at 20:06:31 UTC, Peter Sommerfeld wrote: Hi Everyone! I'm new to :D and have a small problem with std.json. If I use parseJSON() or toJSON() all whitespaces are removed. I would like it to have them preserved for better readability for users. In std.json.d various functions contain SkipWhitespace as parameter but that is not propagated to the toplevel functions. Are there any strong reasons for this behavior or can I rebuild it with SkipWhitespace = true? Or is there another way to work around it. Peter Save a copy of it locally and make the changes needed. There is a new version of std.json which is waiting on changes to std.variant and review... Anyway not much will happen with the current version so this will be good anyway.
Re: static init cycle detection problem
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:25:46 +0200, Øivind oivind@gmail.com wrote:
I am struggeling to get around the cycle detection kicking in when I
have static init in modules that depend on eachother.
I have seen some threads on 'fixes' for this, e.g. adding a @standalone
property to the module or similar. Has there been any progress on this?
If not would it be possible in e.g. main() to get a list of all
compiled-in modules, and then iterate over them and call an init
function where it exists? As long as there is a way to list the name of
the modules at compile-time, this should be pretty easy..?
There's no way to get that list at compile-time, because object files may
be added at link-time. However, D has a ModuleInfo object, which contains
information on all modules in the program:
import std.stdio;
void main( ) {
foreach( m; ModuleInfo ) {
writeln( m.name );
}
}
For details on how this object works, have a look-see at
src/druntime/src/object_.d in your DMD installation folder.
I'm not sure what you're asking for is possible even given this object,
but it's probably the closest you'll (easily) get.
--
Simen
Re: undefined reference to `_D6deimos6python6Python12__ModuleInfoZ'
On 09/19/2012 01:30 PM, Jesse Phillips wrote: On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 at 04:56:27 UTC, Ellery Newcomer wrote: In a templated function in my header file, I make a call to enforce. When the function is not called [instantiated], all is well. When the function is called, it generates yon undefined reference to __ModuleInfoZ. I guess this is because D needs a pointer to the module in order to look up enforce? What does the call to enforce look like? The error isn't from the compiler so you are pulling in a symbol which isn't in your object files. here is an older file, as I haven't committed recently, but it shows the identical call: https://bitbucket.org/ariovistus/pyd/src/364451b5d732/infrastructure/python/python.d#cl-653 making a call to enforce elsewhere doesn't fix the linker problem.
Re: std.json: SkipWhitespace = false ?
Jesse Phillips wrote: Peter Sommerfeld wrote: Hi Everyone! I'm new to :D and have a small problem with std.json. If I use parseJSON() or toJSON() all whitespaces are removed. I would like it to have them preserved for better readability for users. In std.json.d various functions contain SkipWhitespace as parameter but that is not propagated to the toplevel functions. Are there any strong reasons for this behavior or can I rebuild it with SkipWhitespace = true? Or is there another way to work around it. Peter Save a copy of it locally and make the changes needed. There is a new version of std.json which is waiting on changes to std.variant and review... Anyway not much will happen with the current version so this will be good anyway. Thanks Jesse, will do so! Peter
