Re: D could catch this wave: web assembly
On Friday, 18 December 2015 at 10:21:49 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Thursday, 17 December 2015 at 20:22:41 UTC, yawniek wrote: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/12/compiling-to-webassembly-its-happening/ Thanks for sharing! This looks promising. Could anybody show how C++ App for web will look like? I really can't fund any examples except AST. Would it have access to DOM or it would look like Java applet?
Re: Voting For std.experimental.ndslice
On Thursday, 17 December 2015 at 13:33:28 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: On Wednesday, 16 December 2015 at 17:49:03 UTC, Ilya Yaroshenko wrote: In the same time I expect few articles from another engineers about ndslice like this http://dlang.org/intro-to-datetime.html . It is much better to have explanation from different engineers. Please no, put all the doc at one place. Actually, that article was written by the author of the library. People are lazy, if the doc is not in the phobos docs they will not search for it. Make it very hard for people to complain. 0. Package header was added 1. Annotations for `Category` column was added. 2. Internal Binary Representation section was added to std_experimental_ndslice.html 3. `Slice` type contains classification of slicing and indexing, so user can study it along with examples of Slice's overloaded operators. $(CCODE code) does not work if code contains `ALineLikeThat:`. So I use $(D ), but words `is` and `default` are highlighted =\ Update link: http://dtest.thecybershadow.net/artifact/website-76234ca0eab431527327d5ce1ec0ad74c6421533-904569dd4c4451a4514dc4b456c7b395/web/phobos-prerelease/std_experimental_ndslice.html
Re: Voting For std.experimental.ndslice
On Monday, 14 December 2015 at 08:29:13 UTC, Andrea Fontana wrote: On Sunday, 13 December 2015 at 05:10:17 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote: This is the voting thread to decide if the proposed addition to Phobos, std.experimental.ndslice, should be accepted. To vote, please respond to this post. You have three options: * Yes * Yes with a single condition * No Yes! Thanks! Image example is a good idea but I think it should not use external libraries. If someone starts with d/phobos probably won't download/configure another library to do some tests. I suggest you to fix the example using ppm format. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netpbm_format#PPM_example It's just a couple of "map!()" away. :) Or bmp, it's not that complex to read in its common form. imageformats consists of a single file, so user can compile it without dub. It would be faster for user to find and use imageformats than to find a converter from jpeg/png to PPM. Furthermore complete dub example is available at DlangScience/examples. If you have an idea about additional example I'll be happy to discuss it. Best, Ilya
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 at 02:36:38 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 23/12/15 3:26 PM, Joakim wrote: Are you offering to write for a D blog or to get it set up on leanpub? I'd never use an external platform like leanpub where I don't control the source, as one of the main points would be to add new paid blog features like the ones I've mentioned above. I would be happy to help with leanpub. With regards to pretty much anything. Ok so here is the thing about leanpub. You control the manifest. You can then once published do what ever you want with the generated files. For a magazine or book leanpub is great. If you really want to go the paid blog route, I'm sure we could kit out our own Markua (markdown) to html in worse case scenario. Heh, I think you've missed the point of what I've written a bit: I'd _never_ publish a book or magazine, even if it wasn't in print but primarily online. I consider that almost as bad as telling me to write it on a parchment scroll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll). ;) I'd only publish on a tech blog where I control the source and could continuously add paid blogging features like those mentioned previously, which almost nobody is doing today. As such, I find no use for an external platform like leanpub. It wouldn't take much effort to set up a paid blog based on vibe.d, one which you could add new features to over time. The issue is that I'd have to find D devs who want to write for it, as I'm not the right person to write about D (I'd probably edit articles and run the tech/business side). I've been thinking about contacting various D devs to see how much interest there is- I mentioned that I contacted one guy already- but I wasn't sure if I myself wanted to put time into this. I really want to put these paid blogging ideas into use one day, but maybe D isn't the place to do it.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:43:29 UTC, Dmitry wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:17:57 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: and a good web design should work in all these cases. I agree. My message was that current design supports any size, but new design does not support widescreens. That's ok, but that has nothing to do with percentages of screenview dimensions. It is the browser view and physical width (view angle) that matters. Designing well for all view sizes is too expensive and cannot be done in the context of this forum. If a webdesigner with a solid background in usability steps up... Ok. If not, keep it simple and consistent. The most important use case is new D programmers looking at browser and editor. The secondary use case is casual screen view sized browsing e.g. mobile unit. Both use cases suggest that narrow windows should be a priority. I am confident that in this context keeping it simple and consistent with a focus on least common denominator for the most important use case: new D programmers solving programming issues -> narrow widths. As for design there are many solutions, but bikeshedding it a priori will just lead to an inconsistent design with lower usability. As a former teacher of msc level web design and usability I am pretty sure that for the majority doing a complex and flecible design will lead to worse usability overall. I am also pretty sure that no usability expert will volunteer in this bike shedding micro management context. If it happens, great. If not, KISS.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On 23/12/15 3:26 PM, Joakim wrote: On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 at 01:33:22 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 23/12/15 5:10 AM, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:33:50 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: Have you considered using LeanPub for this? Never heard much about them. Looking at their site now, I like that they focus on getting chapters in front of readers right away, while they're being written (which almost every writer should be doing), but don't like their emphasis on producing books at the end. A categorized/tagged blog with comments is a much better experience than a static book with a table of contents and index, yet they import blog posts and turn them into a book! The only reason is that books have a long-standing payment model in place: it's as though everyone were still selling buggies because there are only buggy dealers and no car dealers yet. It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. I've got two books through leanpub. It is ideal for a magazine or books. If you want help, please let me know! I would be happy to help for it. Are you offering to write for a D blog or to get it set up on leanpub? I'd never use an external platform like leanpub where I don't control the source, as one of the main points would be to add new paid blog features like the ones I've mentioned above. I would be happy to help with leanpub. With regards to pretty much anything. Ok so here is the thing about leanpub. You control the manifest. You can then once published do what ever you want with the generated files. For a magazine or book leanpub is great. If you really want to go the paid blog route, I'm sure we could kit out our own Markua (markdown) to html in worse case scenario.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 at 01:33:22 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 23/12/15 5:10 AM, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:33:50 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: Have you considered using LeanPub for this? Never heard much about them. Looking at their site now, I like that they focus on getting chapters in front of readers right away, while they're being written (which almost every writer should be doing), but don't like their emphasis on producing books at the end. A categorized/tagged blog with comments is a much better experience than a static book with a table of contents and index, yet they import blog posts and turn them into a book! The only reason is that books have a long-standing payment model in place: it's as though everyone were still selling buggies because there are only buggy dealers and no car dealers yet. It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. I've got two books through leanpub. It is ideal for a magazine or books. If you want help, please let me know! I would be happy to help for it. Are you offering to write for a D blog or to get it set up on leanpub? I'd never use an external platform like leanpub where I don't control the source, as one of the main points would be to add new paid blog features like the ones I've mentioned above.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On 23/12/15 5:10 AM, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:33:50 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: Simple, a blog that you pay to read. :) It's amazing to me that people still continue to pump out books, such an outdated form, simply because it has an existing payment model in place, rather than trying new paid models online. Simply churning out ebooks or the equivalent is all they do, when so much more is possible online, everything from pay-per-post to comments. The lack of imagination is simply stunning. I agree. A website / blog allows links to videos etc. and it can be expanded over time, and indexed by search engines. Have you considered using LeanPub for this? Never heard much about them. Looking at their site now, I like that they focus on getting chapters in front of readers right away, while they're being written (which almost every writer should be doing), but don't like their emphasis on producing books at the end. A categorized/tagged blog with comments is a much better experience than a static book with a table of contents and index, yet they import blog posts and turn them into a book! The only reason is that books have a long-standing payment model in place: it's as though everyone were still selling buggies because there are only buggy dealers and no car dealers yet. It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. I've got two books through leanpub. It is ideal for a magazine or books. If you want help, please let me know! I would be happy to help for it.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:01:52 UTC, Dmitry wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 13:38:48 UTC, Charles wrote: That's silliness, and not how percentages work at all. To suggest that 95% of people that go to dlang.org have widescreens because 95% of some other user base is nonsense. 1) Do you have statistics of dlang.org? This is entirely my point. I don't, and I can't tell from your response that you do either. 2) Do you think that dlang.org statisitcs will be very different with world statistics? I don't think so. Yes. I'd suspect the number of people using phones to visit a programming language website would be smaller than, say, Facebook. I have no way of telling though. Do you? It's better to not assume. 3) Do you think that % of 4:3 displays will not drop? In all world it decrease each month. Websites need to be maintained just like anything else. That's the entire point of this thread. I used statistics from my professional sphere, but ok, lets try google any other. For example, http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp 1024x768 Jan 2015: 4% 1280x1024 Jan 2015: 7% 1366x768 33% 1920x1080 16% They state right on the page that its only visitors of w3schools.com, so... people interested in learning web development. Other way. Check any shop. How many new monitors 4:3 (or 5:4) it have, and how many widescreen? Check, how many new 4:3 models have, for example, LG? One. Asus? No one. Any other company? Only a few, right? Trend is that % of 4:3 displays goes to be 0 soon. Completely correct. Now, how many monitors support a vertical orientation? Just because its uncommon doesn't mean its not done. Opinion. I agree with you, but why alienate anyone? It's not like narrow websites are unusable. They're just not your preference. For people like Ola, wide websites are legitimately unusable. I did not say that site must be only for widescreen. Keywords: Responsive Web Design. Go ahead and Google that. I can almost guarantee you one of the first things you'll find is "Mobile First". Yeah, its still a big deal. To be fair, D's documentation uses a left-side menu, but it removes the top level navigation (you have to press the logo). Yep, new design has _same_ solution. The new design was a rough draft. It also didn't even implement documentation navigation, it merely served as a proof-of-concept. I'd call that more of a design flaw than a feature. Do you have more good ideas? I'd suggest using left navigation for documentation navigation, and a top bar for main site navigation. On small screen width, instead of a left navigation, it'd just be a list for each module page, and a back button on the module pages. I'd have to play with it a bit to figure out how I'd want it for sure though.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 17:29:56 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 17:01:17 UTC, Joakim wrote: The problem is ads make no money for the vast majority of writers, so they have to write a book and sell it to make writing worth their time. This is why you have to pay for almost all the D books, with free online books like Ali's the rare exception to the rule. I see, but I thought the money was for the D Consortium/Organization. If there's almost no money coming in, does it matter where that pittance goes? ;) I wasn't talking about the D foundation, but a paid blog that would get writers to produce good articles online. Anyway it's really a big problem, if you see, currently sites like: vice, verge, medium etc. They all work with ads, every time you see a "click bait" title. The dirty little secret is that those sites make little to no money, relying on funding from dumb VCs before they go out of business, like the Gigaom tech blog. Vice has done well, and looking up why now, I see it's because they mostly focus on video and made deals with TV channels and cable companies, not exactly replicable for most writers. The best way to illustrate how inadequate ads are is this chart, that shows what happened to US newspaper ad revenue over the last 15 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naa_newspaper_ad_revenue.svg That little blue squib at the bottom, that's online ads. Newspaper revenue used to be 80% from ads, now they're all putting up paid subscription banners, because ads just don't work for most sites online. I remember paying $50 ~ $80 for Programming books, but that were the old times, today with ebooks and piracy things are bad. Ebooks definitely lower costs, so they _should_ be cheaper. As for piracy, that genie is out of the bottle, all you can do is mitigate it. But paid books still sell well, and that's only because of the complete lack of imagination of people to try paid online models, such as paid blogs. On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 17:55:16 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. I agree 100%. I published 4 books for Amazon Kindle, then stopped for exactly this reason. You can do so much more advanced stuff on the web than in an ebook. I run http://tutorials.jenkov.com which has a good bit above 1 million page views a month. I do a few videos too. I just publish as I write. I earn a bit of money from the ads, but it's not that much money. The % of people browsing with ad blockers is rising. Wow, that's pretty good traffic. I've been reading your IAP/ION spec and was surprised how clearly it's written, guess that's why. How would a paid blog work? Subscription? Texts hidden behind a pay wall? Hard to get it into the search engines then... Paywall for 80% of the posts, with the remaining free to sample, and the reader puts in $5-10 and gets charged 5-25 cents from that balance per post clicked on. That metered model is much better than subscriptions. If I don't read any posts for two months, I don't get charged any money from my balance. There are ways to get content behind a paywall indexed, paid sites like the WSJ do it.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. I agree 100%. I published 4 books for Amazon Kindle, then stopped for exactly this reason. You can do so much more advanced stuff on the web than in an ebook. I run http://tutorials.jenkov.com which has a good bit above 1 million page views a month. I do a few videos too. I just publish as I write. I earn a bit of money from the ads, but it's not that much money. The % of people browsing with ad blockers is rising. How would a paid blog work? Subscription? Texts hidden behind a pay wall? Hard to get it into the search engines then...
Re: LDC with Profile-Guided Optimization (PGO)
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 17:09:21 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Maybe many folks reading your post don't know what PGO is? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profile-guided_optimization Matt.
Re: LDC with Profile-Guided Optimization (PGO)
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 14:49:51 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote: On Tuesday, 15 December 2015 at 23:05:38 UTC, Johan Engelen Would it help if binaries are available? Definitely! Matt.
Re: Slicing AliasSeq-s
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 08:17:33 UTC, Shriramana Sharma wrote: Adam D. Ruppe wrote: Slicing a tuple creates a new tuple that refers to the same objects as the previous one. So it doesn't deep copy... but remember this is irrelevant to any D program I realize that but just wanted to know whether the word slicing is used in this context in the same sense as elsewhere. Well, from the perspective of the programmer, there's no semantic difference whether the compiler does a deep copy or does something like slice an array of aliases. Because there's no address to access, there's no perceivable difference between a shallow copy or a deep copy. So, slice is very much the right word to use in the documentation regardless of what the compiler is doing internally. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 17:01:17 UTC, Joakim wrote: The problem is ads make no money for the vast majority of writers, so they have to write a book and sell it to make writing worth their time. This is why you have to pay for almost all the D books, with free online books like Ali's the rare exception to the rule. I see, but I thought the money was for the D Consortium/Organization. Anyway it's really a big problem, if you see, currently sites like: vice, verge, medium etc. They all work with ads, every time you see a "click bait" title. I remember paying $50 ~ $80 for Programming books, but that were the old times, today with ebooks and piracy things are bad. Bubba.
Re: LDC with Profile-Guided Optimization (PGO)
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 14:49:51 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote: On Tuesday, 15 December 2015 at 23:05:38 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote: Hi all, I have been working on adding profile-guided optimization (PGO) to LDC [1][2][3]. At this point, I'd like to hear your input and hope you can help with testing! Unfortunately, to try it out, you will need to build LDC with LLVM3.7 yourself. PGO should work on OS X, Linux, and Windows. Would it help if binaries are available? Or is general interest low? -Johan Maybe many folks reading your post don't know what PGO is? Perhaps you need to do a bit of a sales job to convince folks that it is pretty cool, and worth trying out. Craig
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 16:51:38 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:24:23 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 12:55:19 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: All decent ideas- I've been thinking recently about setting up a paid blog for articles by D devs- but without someone to explore and push them, they will go nowhere, ie somebody has to do the work of wrangling the writers and docs. What do you mean by a "paid blog" ? Simple, a blog that you pay to read... In the age of "FREE" everywhere do you really expects people paying for a blog? I don't think so. You may go with ads instead! The problem is ads make no money for the vast majority of writers, so they have to write a book and sell it to make writing worth their time. This is why you have to pay for almost all the D books, with free online books like Ali's the rare exception to the rule. Most readers know they have to pay for quality. If you don't want to, that's up to you.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On 12/22/2015 02:19 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-12-21 18:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That's a large leap. I suggest using Ddoc instead of Sass compact CSS files, see the existing instance at https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/blob/master/css/cssmenu.css.dd. CoffeeScript sounds like a nice thing to add and is from what I've heard reasonably stable. We can't make the site depend on dub at this time. There have been situations in the past when dub wouldn't build and nobody was available to work on it. At that time only the alternate documentation got broken, but if the site depends on it we're looking at catastrophic failure. I have no interest in using Ddoc. If that's a requirement we can close down the redesign idea completely. I was afraid you were going to say this. Looks like we're reaching an impasse again, so let me explain the situation from where I stand and kindly attempt to change your viewpoint a bit. One simple matter of fact is that most work and maintenance on dlang.org (https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/graphs/contributors) is done by a handful of folks: Walter, myself, Kenji, Martin, Vladimir, followed by a long tail. Lately it's been Vladimir, Martin, and myself who did most maintenance work. A consequence of that is when someone proposes a different technology for dlang.org, the proposal is really that Vladimir, Martin, and me become fluent in it. This is a very simple fact that I have had difficulty communicating. I've said several times that the only thing that would make e.g. vibe.d more used on dlang.org is the availability of people able and willing to help with it. As far as I understand you are well versed in a variety of Web-related tools, and have your preferences in terms of tooling you use etc. That's totally cool. Also, my understanding is that you'd consider helping with the redesign but only as a one-off contribution; there'd be no implied commitment that you'd be available for solving various issues related to the technologies you propose. This makes things more difficult for everyone involved. What would help would be a bit more flexibility with the choices made and more convergence toward compromise. You can't come with a battery of large changes in a take it or leave it manner. Thanks, Andrei
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:24:23 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 12:55:19 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: All decent ideas- I've been thinking recently about setting up a paid blog for articles by D devs- but without someone to explore and push them, they will go nowhere, ie somebody has to do the work of wrangling the writers and docs. What do you mean by a "paid blog" ? Simple, a blog that you pay to read... In the age of "FREE" everywhere do you really expects people paying for a blog? I don't think so. You may go with ads instead! Bubba.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 16:16:53 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 16:10:23 UTC, Joakim wrote: It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. What you're describing sounds basically like a magazine... paid freelance authors contributing articles. Heh, never thought of that analogy. :) I can see why you might think that, because a blog is continually produced by many writers, like a weekly magazine, as opposed to a single end product written by one person over a year or two, like a book. There is some similarity to magazines, though bloggers wouldn't be forced to any schedule, even weekly. As for the paid freelancer aspect, magazines pay by the piece and I think they usually keep the copyright, because they had that bargaining power. With paid blogs, you'd do revenue-sharing, with the writer getting 70%+ of the money their posts garnered, and keeping their copyright, similar to the deal LeanPub makes. There's just too much competition for writers these days for them to get much less than that. But the biggest difference is that online is a much more dynamic format, with all kinds of innovations to come, with everything from tipping extra for articles you like, as you might for good service at a restaurant, to building recommendation systems to find the best customized selection of posts for _you_ to read. If you'd have told me at the inception of the Web 25 years ago that most writers would still make money primarily through _print books_ in 2015, I'd have said you're nuts. And yet, sadly, that's where we are today.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 16:10:23 UTC, Joakim wrote: It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else. What you're describing sounds basically like a magazine... paid freelance authors contributing articles.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:33:50 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: Simple, a blog that you pay to read. :) It's amazing to me that people still continue to pump out books, such an outdated form, simply because it has an existing payment model in place, rather than trying new paid models online. Simply churning out ebooks or the equivalent is all they do, when so much more is possible online, everything from pay-per-post to comments. The lack of imagination is simply stunning. I agree. A website / blog allows links to videos etc. and it can be expanded over time, and indexed by search engines. Have you considered using LeanPub for this? Never heard much about them. Looking at their site now, I like that they focus on getting chapters in front of readers right away, while they're being written (which almost every writer should be doing), but don't like their emphasis on producing books at the end. A categorized/tagged blog with comments is a much better experience than a static book with a table of contents and index, yet they import blog posts and turn them into a book! The only reason is that books have a long-standing payment model in place: it's as though everyone were still selling buggies because there are only buggy dealers and no car dealers yet. It is all beyond idiotic: it is amazing how long antiquated ideas stick around, only because people cannot imagine anything else.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On 22.12.2015 16:43, Dmitry wrote: I agree. My message was that current design supports any size, but new design does not support widescreens. There's a point where claiming more horizontal space doesn't improve the usability of the site any more. Yes, more stuff fits on one screen, but readability suffers when text lines get too long. And we have lots of short lines on dlang.org, so we don't get that much more stuff on the screen anyway. The only thing we really achieve is bad looks.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 15:17:57 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: and a good web design should work in all these cases. I agree. My message was that current design supports any size, but new design does not support widescreens.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
Simple, a blog that you pay to read. :) It's amazing to me that people still continue to pump out books, such an outdated form, simply because it has an existing payment model in place, rather than trying new paid models online. Simply churning out ebooks or the equivalent is all they do, when so much more is possible online, everything from pay-per-post to comments. The lack of imagination is simply stunning. I agree. A website / blog allows links to videos etc. and it can be expanded over time, and indexed by search engines. Have you considered using LeanPub for this?
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On 22.12.2015 16:01, Dmitry wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 13:38:48 UTC, Charles wrote: [...] To be fair, D's documentation uses a left-side menu, but it removes the top level navigation (you have to press the logo). Yep, new design has _same_ solution. No, the mock-up doesn't provide a library menu at all (it glances over the issue), and the hacked-together full preview provides a vertical library menu in addition to the horizontal main menu. Neither is the same as dropping the main menu completely, which is what the current dlang.org does.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 12:55:19 UTC, Jakob Jenkov wrote: All decent ideas- I've been thinking recently about setting up a paid blog for articles by D devs- but without someone to explore and push them, they will go nowhere, ie somebody has to do the work of wrangling the writers and docs. What do you mean by a "paid blog" ? Simple, a blog that you pay to read. :) It's amazing to me that people still continue to pump out books, such an outdated form, simply because it has an existing payment model in place, rather than trying new paid models online. Simply churning out ebooks or the equivalent is all they do, when so much more is possible online, everything from pay-per-post to comments. The lack of imagination is simply stunning. I've been thinking about trying to get some D devs to contribute posts to such a paid blog- contacted one guy a couple weeks ago, he didn't have time- but I wasn't sure if anybody would be interested in writing posts and if I wanted to spend much time on getting it going. That's why I said the main issue is having someone push it, at least initially. After that, it of course depends on who wants to write and if anyone wants to read it.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 08:52:28 UTC, Dmitry wrote: Yep, you are one of that 5%. Me too. Many programmers do not have. But other many programmers have. I use multiple monitors, 16:9 and 4:3. All studios, where I worked, uses multiple monitors. Most part of professional developers, who I personally know, uses multiple monitors. So, this is not an argument. While I have a second monitor, I very rarely use it (and when I do, it is more for youtube than documentation). I also very rarely keep websites maximized. I like to resize the window so I can see it and the other stuff I want at the same time. So while my screen might be 1280, my browser window often isn't and a good web design should work in all these cases.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On 2015-12-22 16:05, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: The new logo design still struck me as the same brand when I first saw it. It's the shape that you recognize (the D and the two moons). The rest is just extra. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 14:57:22 UTC, Meta wrote: If you don't know HTML then you probably shouldn't be doing webdev. Most the website is content articles, not web dev. My ideal situation with the website would probably be a html skeleton with ddoc in the contents, providing semantic content macros in there. which isn't *too* far from where we are now! The html skeleton is found in the DDOC macro here: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/blob/master/dlang.org.ddoc#L54 (why isn't that in html.ddoc? the multiple files is pretty wtfy to me) Though why ever it uses the ridiculous html pretending to be ddoc macros is beyond me. I have a lot of hatred toward the current state of the website and documentation, but ddoc in principle really isn't one of them. I don't feel it is enough (we could really use things like auto generated tables of contents!) and I'm not married to it (though the Phobos inline docs kinda are... let's not forget about them), but it isn't that bad. Just the way we're using it is pretty silly.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
Let me preface this saying I'm mildly on the just-keep-ddoc side of things On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 14:42:35 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote: it's not in ddoc? Not everyone knows HTML. If you don't know HTML, the ddoc macros the dlang.org site uses will be pretty mysterious too. What is $(SPANC)? or $(DIVID), without referring to html? Secondly, all of the existing content will have to be converted. Oh, that's trivial! dmd -D literally does that automatically. And finally, what will we do about PDF, epub, and LaTeX generation if everything is in HTML? That's similarly extremely easy, actually IMO quite a bit easier than messing with the ddoc macros, because HTML is a very easy language to parse and transform, especially if written semantically. If you wish to go with another format like Markdown, we get to the problems I listed here: I agree, markdown is gross. But the logo is a rather small part of the overall design. Plus, there is the problem of brand recognition. Changing the logo is not a small event in the grand scheme of things. The new logo design still struck me as the same brand when I first saw it.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 13:38:48 UTC, Charles wrote: That's silliness, and not how percentages work at all. To suggest that 95% of people that go to dlang.org have widescreens because 95% of some other user base is nonsense. 1) Do you have statistics of dlang.org? 2) Do you think that dlang.org statisitcs will be very different with world statistics? I don't think so. 3) Do you think that % of 4:3 displays will not drop? In all world it decrease each month. I used statistics from my professional sphere, but ok, lets try google any other. For example, http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp 1024x768 Jan 2015: 4% 1280x1024 Jan 2015: 7% 1366x768 33% 1920x1080 16% Other way. Check any shop. How many new monitors 4:3 (or 5:4) it have, and how many widescreen? Check, how many new 4:3 models have, for example, LG? One. Asus? No one. Any other company? Only a few, right? Trend is that % of 4:3 displays goes to be 0 soon. Opinion. I agree with you, but why alienate anyone? It's not like narrow websites are unusable. They're just not your preference. For people like Ola, wide websites are legitimately unusable. I did not say that site must be only for widescreen. Keywords: Responsive Web Design. To be fair, D's documentation uses a left-side menu, but it removes the top level navigation (you have to press the logo). Yep, new design has _same_ solution. I'd call that more of a design flaw than a feature. Do you have more good ideas?
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 14:42:35 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 07:19:48 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I have no interest in using Ddoc. If that's a requirement we can close down the redesign idea completely. Jacob, I really like the design, but how are others supposed to contribute, e.g. those who come from the dmd side of things, if it's not in ddoc? Not everyone knows HTML. If you don't know HTML then you probably shouldn't be doing webdev. It's basic foundational knowledge. I highly doubt that anybody who wants to work on the website has put time into learning DDOC but not HTML.
Re: LDC with Profile-Guided Optimization (PGO)
On Tuesday, 15 December 2015 at 23:05:38 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote: Hi all, I have been working on adding profile-guided optimization (PGO) to LDC [1][2][3]. At this point, I'd like to hear your input and hope you can help with testing! Unfortunately, to try it out, you will need to build LDC with LLVM3.7 yourself. PGO should work on OS X, Linux, and Windows. Would it help if binaries are available? Or is general interest low? -Johan
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 07:19:48 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I have no interest in using Ddoc. If that's a requirement we can close down the redesign idea completely. Jacob, I really like the design, but how are others supposed to contribute, e.g. those who come from the dmd side of things, if it's not in ddoc? Not everyone knows HTML. Secondly, all of the existing content will have to be converted. And finally, what will we do about PDF, epub, and LaTeX generation if everything is in HTML? If you wish to go with another format like Markdown, we get to the problems I listed here: http://forum.dlang.org/post/pxobzxkhxbobuhrse...@forum.dlang.org I think it looks pretty bad and will ruin the design. But the logo is a rather small part of the overall design. Plus, there is the problem of brand recognition. Changing the logo is not a small event in the grand scheme of things.
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 08:52:28 UTC, Dmitry wrote: On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 08:04:29 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: I use exclusively 4:3 and 3:4, 1600*1280, 1280*1024, 1024*1280, 1024*768 and 768*1024. Yep, you are one of that 5%. That's silliness, and not how percentages work at all. To suggest that 95% of people that go to dlang.org have widescreens because 95% of some other user base is nonsense. The reason web designers have a strong preference towards tall sites vs wide sites is twofold. Firstly, its hard to collect meaningful statistics on their own users, because browser dimensions might be set based on the existing site design. Secondly they need to design for mobile screens anyways, because request headers suggest they account for over 50% of internet users. That said, that's something that should also be specifically checked per website. Widescreen is for movies... No. Opinion. I agree with you, but why alienate anyone? It's not like narrow websites are unusable. They're just not your preference. For people like Ola, wide websites are legitimately unusable. Besides, many programmers with wide screen does not have multiple monitors, Many programmers do not have. But other many programmers have. I use multiple monitors, 16:9 and 4:3. All studios, where I worked, uses multiple monitors. Most part of professional developers, who I personally know, uses multiple monitors. So, this is not an argument. Again, I agree with the sentiment, but anecdotal evidence isn't a legitimate argument to block design changes. Example anecdotal counter-argument: Even though I have 3 x widescreen monitors, I generally only have any one web page on a sixth of my total screen space, which favors a narrow format. so they need space both for website and editor on same screen. Firstly, in most cases it will be D documentation. And it anyway will use left-side menu. And second - current design already support small width. To be fair, D's documentation uses a left-side menu, but it removes the top level navigation (you have to press the logo). I'd call that more of a design flaw than a feature.
Re: D Consortium as Book / App Publisher... ?
All decent ideas- I've been thinking recently about setting up a paid blog for articles by D devs- but without someone to explore and push them, they will go nowhere, ie somebody has to do the work of wrangling the writers and docs. What do you mean by a "paid blog" ?
Re: Template parameter-dependent attributes
On Monday, 21 December 2015 at 13:58:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/16/2015 12:14 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [snip] I submitted https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15464, which is preapproved. There is a bit of a sense of urgency to it - it blocks the bigo library proposal and an article. Takers? Andrei https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/5314
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 08:04:29 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: I use exclusively 4:3 and 3:4, 1600*1280, 1280*1024, 1024*1280, 1024*768 and 768*1024. Yep, you are one of that 5%. Widescreen is for movies... No. Besides, many programmers with wide screen does not have multiple monitors, Many programmers do not have. But other many programmers have. I use multiple monitors, 16:9 and 4:3. All studios, where I worked, uses multiple monitors. Most part of professional developers, who I personally know, uses multiple monitors. So, this is not an argument. so they need space both for website and editor on same screen. Firstly, in most cases it will be D documentation. And it anyway will use left-side menu. And second - current design already support small width.
Re: Slicing AliasSeq-s
Adam D. Ruppe wrote: > Look down to > where it handles tuples (AliasSeq is the user-visible name for > what the compiler internally calls a tuple). Ouch. So even if the terminology gets abolished from Phobos, it's still lurking in the compiler? > Slicing a tuple creates a new tuple that refers to the same > objects as the previous one. So it doesn't deep copy... but > remember this is irrelevant to any D program I realize that but just wanted to know whether the word slicing is used in this context in the same sense as elsewhere. -- Shriramana Sharma, Penguin #395953
Re: Redesign of dlang.org
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 06:38:24 UTC, Dmitry wrote: Left-side menu. I don't like when site uses only half of screen (is anybody still uses 1280*1024 and 1024*768 displays? Statistic of November says that 5% and 2% of people). New design prepared for 4:3, not for wide-screen displays (1920*1080 - 35%, 1366*768 - 26%, etc). I use exclusively 4:3 and 3:4, 1600*1280, 1280*1024, 1024*1280, 1024*768 and 768*1024. Widescreen is for movies... Besides, many programmers with wide screen does not have multiple monitors, so they need space both for website and editor on same screen.
