Re: Growing pains
On 03.05.2012 18:50, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Still here. My observation is that there were 2 problems. One usually involved some nonsense like with 4 digit numbers in-watch load 20xx gt 2000 (or simillar) - it is now seemingly gone. Second one shows XX.X number which I derive for load factor (num of processes in queue / num of CPUS). Doubtful conclusion: configuration is fixed, resources are not there yet(?). -- Dmitry Olshansky
Re: Growing pains
On Saturday, 12 May 2012 at 10:16:45 UTC, Alex Rønne Petersen wrote: I can barely make contact with the newsgroup server at this point... any news on upping the server capacity? The idea that any reasonably-sized machine shouldn't be able to run a fairly small newsgroup server these days still strikes me as odd, though… David
Re: Growing pains
I wonder if something like this will be more painful? http://www.freewebhostingarea.com/
Re: Growing pains
On 14.05.2012 22:06, Kagamin wrote: I wonder if something like this will be more painful? http://www.freewebhostingarea.com/ Or rather a cheap dedicated VPS box. http://buyvm.net/ 15$/year ? -- Dmitry Olshansky
Re: Growing pains
On 5/14/12 1:40 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: On 14.05.2012 22:06, Kagamin wrote: I wonder if something like this will be more painful? http://www.freewebhostingarea.com/ Or rather a cheap dedicated VPS box. http://buyvm.net/ 15$/year ? The issue seems to be different than sheer computing power, but instead software. Our current hypothesis is that the 168K files in one directory might be the cause for the slowness. Andrei
Re: Growing pains
On 14-05-2012 21:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 5/14/12 1:40 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: On 14.05.2012 22:06, Kagamin wrote: I wonder if something like this will be more painful? http://www.freewebhostingarea.com/ Or rather a cheap dedicated VPS box. http://buyvm.net/ 15$/year ? The issue seems to be different than sheer computing power, but instead software. Our current hypothesis is that the 168K files in one directory might be the cause for the slowness. Andrei That... does... sound curious. -- - Alex
Re: Growing pains
I swear MySQL can handle 168K records at once.
Re: Growing pains
They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. a possible solution could include to encourage more people on this newsgroup to learn how to quote. :)
Re: Growing pains
On Monday, 14 May 2012 at 20:23:25 UTC, Kagamin wrote: I swear MySQL can handle 168K records at once. I wonder why it can't just go on a queue that gives you some 30 seconds before timing out and giving you an error message? It makes me wonder if distributed computing could come to the rescue. I can volunteer a VM or MySQL server from my computer if need be; If you did that you'd probably distribute out say older archived data (everything from 2011 and before); since if you did that you could distribute it to as many alternate servers as you want. Course if it's all the 2012's present data that is giving us the problem, then it wouldn't help by much :P I think I can also set up access to a MySql server on a public website that could be used as well, or get web service for about $1 for a year. It's an option...
Re: Growing pains
NNTP error: 400 load at 17.54, try later
Re: Growing pains
On 03-05-2012 16:50, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei I can barely make contact with the newsgroup server at this point... any news on upping the server capacity? -- - Alex
Re: Growing pains
On Thu, 03 May 2012 10:50:13 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. I'm seeing some interesting new behavior: I still get the error condition (quite frequently today) -- but opera still fetches messages. I'm not sure if this is good or bad :) -Steve
Re: Growing pains
On 5/7/12 10:25 PM, Robert Clipsham wrote: On 03/05/2012 15:50, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei I've gotta say... These have been a lot more frequent for me since you posted this message! For me it stopped shortly after this message, but then it started happening one or two days ago.
Re: Growing pains
On Thursday, 3 May 2012 at 14:50:09 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei I don't know if someone was working on the NNTP server this morning, but it was really, really bad for a couple of minutes. I got XHR error and nothing else. Then it wen't back to normal.
Re: Growing pains
On Saturday, 5 May 2012 at 06:04:51 UTC, SomeDude wrote: I don't know if someone was working on the NNTP server this morning, but it was really, really bad for a couple of minutes. I got XHR error and nothing else. Then it wen't back to normal. 20 mn later, it's slow again.
Re: Growing pains
On 05/03/2012 10:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Out of curiosity, can we get some numbers on the number of concurrent users that are causing the problems? I'm surprised that a modern machine would have trouble keeping up with newsgroup traffic. I figure it is either broken software or the machine is actually busy doing something else.
Re: Growing pains
On Thu, 03 May 2012 23:25:26 +0100, H. S. Teoh hst...@quickfur.ath.cx wrote: On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 01:51:20PM -0700, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 05/03/2012 01:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: Le 03/05/2012 16:50, Andrei Alexandrescu a écrit : Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. [...] I love you :D It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». I've learned years ago to never trust a web page or a browser. +1. I always type inside the Emacs *scratch* buffer and then copy and paste from there to the browser window. (I did it again! :) Actually no, this is a Thunderbird window, but still...) [...] Or just use a sane email client like Mutt and subscribe to the mailing list instead. :-) Opera does this right too :) R -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: Growing pains
On 5/4/12 2:26 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote: On 05/03/2012 10:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Out of curiosity, can we get some numbers on the number of concurrent users that are causing the problems? This would be interesting to know. Relayed upstream. I'm surprised that a modern machine would have trouble keeping up with newsgroup traffic. I figure it is either broken software or the machine is actually busy doing something else. FWIW it seemed to be just a configuration issue. Andrei
Re: Growing pains
On Fri, 04 May 2012 05:00:10 -0400, Regan Heath re...@netmail.co.nz wrote: Opera does this right too :) Yeah, I still have all my sent posts in opera... One thing that annoys me though, if a message doesn't get sent, it stays in your outbox. Then when you double-click on it to edit/resend, it's been reformatted to be 80 characters wide for some reason. -Steve
Re: Growing pains
Am 03.05.2012 22:51, schrieb Ali Çehreli: On 05/03/2012 01:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: Le 03/05/2012 16:50, Andrei Alexandrescu a écrit : Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei I love you :D It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». I've learned years ago to never trust a web page or a browser. I always type inside the Emacs *scratch* buffer and then copy and paste from there to the browser window. (I did it again! :) Actually no, this is a Thunderbird window, but still...) Ali Ah, the benefits of using plain simple native desktop applications. :)
Re: Growing pains
On 05/04/2012 02:27 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: FWIW it seemed to be just a configuration issue. Perhaps not solved yet? I just hit the same problem about fifteen minutes ago. Ali
Growing pains
Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei
Re: Growing pains
On Thursday, 3 May 2012 at 14:50:09 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei Ah cool. That was annoying enough, but the worst offenders were the errors when posting from the web interface.
Re: Growing pains
Le 03/05/2012 16:50, Andrei Alexandrescu a écrit : Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei I love you :D It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ».
Re: Growing pains
On 05/03/2012 01:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: Le 03/05/2012 16:50, Andrei Alexandrescu a écrit : Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. Thanks, Andrei I love you :D It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». I've learned years ago to never trust a web page or a browser. I always type inside the Emacs *scratch* buffer and then copy and paste from there to the browser window. (I did it again! :) Actually no, this is a Thunderbird window, but still...) Ali
Re: Growing pains
On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 01:51:20PM -0700, Ali Çehreli wrote: On 05/03/2012 01:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: Le 03/05/2012 16:50, Andrei Alexandrescu a écrit : Just letting you all know we're working on the frustrating and increasingly frequent Load at xx.xx, try again later errors when reading this forum through NNTP. They are caused by a significant growth spurt in newsgroup readership that occurred in recent times. We are working with our provider to fix these issues. [...] I love you :D It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». I've learned years ago to never trust a web page or a browser. +1. I always type inside the Emacs *scratch* buffer and then copy and paste from there to the browser window. (I did it again! :) Actually no, this is a Thunderbird window, but still...) [...] Or just use a sane email client like Mutt and subscribe to the mailing list instead. :-) T -- Life is unfair. Ask too much from it, and it may decide you don't deserve what you have now either.
Re: Growing pains
On 5/3/2012 1:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». Youch. I didn't realize that was happening. I post from Thunderbird, and if it fails you just try it again. Anyhow, thanks to Jan Knepper for hosting us and figuring out a solution.
Re: Growing pains
On 04-05-2012 00:47, Walter Bright wrote: On 5/3/2012 1:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». Youch. I didn't realize that was happening. I post from Thunderbird, and if it fails you just try it again. I use Thunderbird too, and one of my messages actually *did* get lost. I wrote the message, hit send, and then right after it finished sending the message, an NG error popped up and the message was lost. As far as I can see, Thunderbird doesn't save sent NNTP messages anywhere unless you explicitly tell it to. :( Anyhow, thanks to Jan Knepper for hosting us and figuring out a solution. -- - Alex
Re: Growing pains
On Thursday, 3 May 2012 at 20:45:24 UTC, deadalnix wrote: It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». For the record: forum.dlang.org doesn't do this.
Re: Growing pains
deadalnix deadal...@gmail.com wrote in message news:jnuqp4$2hs8$1...@digitalmars.com... It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». That's one of the reasons I avoid web-based things whenever possible.
Re: Growing pains
Alex Rønne Petersen xtzgzo...@gmail.com wrote in message news:jnv2c1$319r$2...@digitalmars.com... As far as I can see, Thunderbird doesn't save sent NNTP messages anywhere unless you explicitly tell it to. :( Outlook Express does ;)
Re: Growing pains
On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 07:50:30PM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Alex R�nne Petersen xtzgzo...@gmail.com wrote in message news:jnv2c1$319r$2...@digitalmars.com... As far as I can see, Thunderbird doesn't save sent NNTP messages anywhere unless you explicitly tell it to. :( [...] I'm skeptical of all GUI-based mail clients. But that's just me. :-) Outlook Express does ;) [...] Ewww!! T -- It is widely believed that reinventing the wheel is a waste of time; but I disagree: without wheel reinventers, we would be still be stuck with wooden horse-cart wheels.
Re: Growing pains
On 04-05-2012 01:50, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Alex Rønne Petersenxtzgzo...@gmail.com wrote in message news:jnv2c1$319r$2...@digitalmars.com... As far as I can see, Thunderbird doesn't save sent NNTP messages anywhere unless you explicitly tell it to. :( Outlook Express does ;) I try to stay away from Windows. :P -- - Alex
Re: Growing pains
On 5/3/2012 3:54 PM, Alex Rønne Petersen wrote: I use Thunderbird too, and one of my messages actually *did* get lost. I wrote the message, hit send, and then right after it finished sending the message, an NG error popped up and the message was lost. As far as I can see, Thunderbird doesn't save sent NNTP messages anywhere unless you explicitly tell it to. :( TB saves all sent messages in the Sent folder. It has happened a couple times that a n.g. posting got lost in transit, and I'd just get a copy from the Sent folder and resubmit it. I have never lost a message with TB. It's usually in the Sent or the Drafts folder. I suggest checking your TB options, and make sure to check the box about automatically saving a copy of sent messages.
Re: Growing pains
Le jeudi 03 mai 2012 à 15:47 -0700, Walter Bright a écrit : On 5/3/2012 1:52 PM, deadalnix wrote: It was so anoying when posting a message and *pof* « error your message is lost ». Youch. I didn't realize that was happening. I post from Thunderbird, and if it fails you just try it again. Anyhow, thanks to Jan Knepper for hosting us and figuring out a solution. Works fine too, with Evolution
Re: D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
Kevin Bealer wrote:
Walter Bright Wrote:
Kevin Bealer wrote:
To smooth this out, it would help to have the best practices for
doing common things in D (e.g. serialization, logging) somewhat
documented for the consumption of non-experts. I wonder what a good
way of doing this is?
It's really impossible to predict what the best practices would be. Only
time and usage will tell. The best practices for both C and C++ have
evolved significantly over time.
I think D2 is so different from D (and in some important ways, from everything
out there) that a new usage style would have needed to be created even if D was
already the lingua franca.
The question that I find myself thinking is -- is chaos better or is it better
to try to establish a particular style of programming (however simply or
poorly) in the original books and resources that a programmer will find upon
discovering D?
Chaos has its appeal of course, but others would say that any initial style
that will stick is better than no style. In other words, that you cannot
evolve until you cohere. It's hard to choose... On the other hand I suppose
Phobos is consistent enough with itself that if people follow that they will
have a launch point.
If naming guidelines are a part of the coding style you mention, then
Phobos isn't very consistent. I think this needs to be fixed before TDPL
comes out, even though the renaming will cause major breakage. This is
the last chance to get it right.
Some examples:
- function naming:
std.file.isfile()
std.math.isFinite()
std.thread.thread_suspendAll()
- enum naming
std.file.SpanMode { shallow, depth, ... }
std.getopt.config { caseSensitive, caseInsensitive, ... }
std.json.JSON_TYPE { STRING, INTEGER, ... }
std.thread.State { HOLD, EXEC, ... }
-Lars
Re: D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote: Kevin Bealer wrote: Walter Bright Wrote: Kevin Bealer wrote: To smooth this out, it would help to have the best practices for doing common things in D (e.g. serialization, logging) somewhat documented for the consumption of non-experts. I wonder what a good way of doing this is? It's really impossible to predict what the best practices would be. Only time and usage will tell. The best practices for both C and C++ have evolved significantly over time. I think D2 is so different from D (and in some important ways, from everything out there) that a new usage style would have needed to be created even if D was already the lingua franca. The question that I find myself thinking is -- is chaos better or is it better to try to establish a particular style of programming (however simply or poorly) in the original books and resources that a programmer will find upon discovering D? Chaos has its appeal of course, but others would say that any initial style that will stick is better than no style. In other words, that you cannot evolve until you cohere. It's hard to choose... On the other hand I suppose Phobos is consistent enough with itself that if people follow that they will have a launch point. If naming guidelines are a part of the coding style you mention, then Phobos isn't very consistent. I think this needs to be fixed before TDPL comes out, even though the renaming will cause major breakage. This is the last chance to get it right. TDPL hardly mentions Phobos. There is a lot more time for getting Phobos right. Phobos will get a major overhaul early next year.
Re: D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:
Kevin Bealer wrote:
Walter Bright Wrote:
Kevin Bealer wrote:
To smooth this out, it would help to have the best practices for
doing common things in D (e.g. serialization, logging) somewhat
documented for the consumption of non-experts. I wonder what a good
way of doing this is?
It's really impossible to predict what the best practices would be. Only
time and usage will tell. The best practices for both C and C++ have
evolved significantly over time.
I think D2 is so different from D (and in some important ways, from
everything out there) that a new usage style would have needed to be
created even if D was already the lingua franca.
The question that I find myself thinking is -- is chaos better or is it
better to try to establish a particular style of programming (however
simply or poorly) in the original books and resources that a programmer
will find upon discovering D?
Chaos has its appeal of course, but others would say that any initial style
that will stick is better than no style. In other words, that you cannot
evolve until you cohere. It's hard to choose... On the other hand I
suppose Phobos is consistent enough with itself that if people follow that
they will have a launch point.
If naming guidelines are a part of the coding style you mention, then
Phobos isn't very consistent. I think this needs to be fixed before TDPL
comes out, even though the renaming will cause major breakage. This is
the last chance to get it right.
Some examples:
- function naming:
std.file.isfile()
std.math.isFinite()
std.thread.thread_suspendAll()
- enum naming
std.file.SpanMode { shallow, depth, ... }
std.getopt.config { caseSensitive, caseInsensitive, ... }
std.json.JSON_TYPE { STRING, INTEGER, ... }
std.thread.State { HOLD, EXEC, ... }
-Lars
I find
alias std.file.SpanMode std.file.spanMode;
alias std.file.SpanMode std.file.span_mode;
etc.
usefull in some situations.
Re: D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
Walter Bright Wrote: Kevin Bealer wrote: To smooth this out, it would help to have the best practices for doing common things in D (e.g. serialization, logging) somewhat documented for the consumption of non-experts. I wonder what a good way of doing this is? It's really impossible to predict what the best practices would be. Only time and usage will tell. The best practices for both C and C++ have evolved significantly over time. I think D2 is so different from D (and in some important ways, from everything out there) that a new usage style would have needed to be created even if D was already the lingua franca. The question that I find myself thinking is -- is chaos better or is it better to try to establish a particular style of programming (however simply or poorly) in the original books and resources that a programmer will find upon discovering D? Chaos has its appeal of course, but others would say that any initial style that will stick is better than no style. In other words, that you cannot evolve until you cohere. It's hard to choose... On the other hand I suppose Phobos is consistent enough with itself that if people follow that they will have a launch point. Kevin
Re: D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
Walter Bright: Only time and usage will tell. The best practices for both C and C++ have evolved significantly over time. I hope D2 will change itself a little (into D3) to adapt itself to such best practices, to make them more natural, more easy to use, etc. Bye, bearophile
D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
retard Wrote: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:42:26 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Most likely Walter won't even tell what kind of arrays D2 will have. Anything can happen. The final word is the undocumented executable you can download when the book hits stores. Even then dmd's behavior isn't the final word, it might as well be a bug. I find following D these days to be interesting but occasionally frustrating. It's a little like talking to a teenager who is growing so fast intellectually that his opinions change every day. You can't really argue with him because you don't know where he stands on anything if it's been more than a few days since the last conversation. But I think this is clearly a complaint that actually works out to an amazing compliment, e.g. that the language is still developing and maturing so much, and the changes seem well thought out, too. Congrats, Walter and Andrei! (If a teenager was already stuck in his ways mentally at 15 yrs old, it would be a much worse thing!) I think the new const regime, thread-local data as the default, easy code generation, opDispatch etc etc have enormous power and newness. For this reason I think that the stable set of best practices for working in D2 will take a while to settle down unless there is a lot of effort put into designing them somehow (if that's even possible). I find it hard to imagine what the average D programming style might look like a few years out in a 'typical work place'. Maybe this settling-out can't happen until a lot of D code is traded among both D experts and also more middle level developers. It seems like the best practices and expected usage for C++ and Java are often driven by the friction between people who are at different skill levels. The best (or just most common) practices seem to follow the don't surprise me principle, which probably doesn't coalesce until people have built up some common sets of expectations. Mid level developers (the rank and file of any language community) hate to work with code that is too clever to easily navigate through. I think best practices and style guidelines often tend (intentionally or not) to become a bulwark against too much invention and cleverness -- a trade-off of brain cycles to read the code versus expressiveness / compactness / performance / perfectionism. D's feature set has the ability to do enormously clever things. The rank and file maintenance programmer will probably prefer these things at least modularized and packed off into controlled sections of the code. This isn't a criticism, it's more like a house keeping thing, e.g. Thomas Edison's friends probably preferred the chemical batteries and various sharp items to be stored in the cabinets when they stopped by for tea. In general, a house is better suited for company if the sharp and useful things are put away. Likewise a code-base is probably more suitable for visits by coders unfamiliar with it's peculiarities when the use of advanced features is somehow kept under control or at least marked as special and surrounded by velvet ropes. To smooth this out, it would help to have the best practices for doing common things in D (e.g. serialization, logging) somewhat documented for the consumption of non-experts. I wonder what a good way of doing this is? Kevin
Re: D growing pains (was Re: The Demise of Dynamic Arrays?!)
Kevin Bealer wrote: To smooth this out, it would help to have the best practices for doing common things in D (e.g. serialization, logging) somewhat documented for the consumption of non-experts. I wonder what a good way of doing this is? It's really impossible to predict what the best practices would be. Only time and usage will tell. The best practices for both C and C++ have evolved significantly over time.
