Re: D on Slashdot
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:50:31 +, Kagamin wrote: On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:13:31 UTC, ketmar wrote: somehow i can't close cmd.exe by hitting ctrl+c. don't console programs know what ctrl+c is for? Well, maybe because it's a shell, not a utility? shell is a console utility. Hmm... shell is a user interface providing access to the system and utilities. It's different from user utilities in that it's a system component, making the whole thing usable at all. i can use my system without shell at all. it's in no way system component, nor even critical system component. it's a simple interpreter, which is not even necessary. a console utility. It shouldn't terminate conventionally, because then the user remains without access to the system i ran sh in sh. how terminating second sh will leave me without access to the system? that's why console shell doesn't terminate on ctrl-c and GUI shell doesn't terminate on alt-f4. But a text editor should definitely terminate in a conventional manner. oh, how about init=/usr/bin/vi? look ma, vi is my shell now! strangely, ctrl+c is not working in FAR too. it's not a shell. it's obvious console. Maybe they just don't give a shit about it? Or they see it as a shell. Truth be told, FAR has a quit button at the bottom. trush be told, vi has a quit command. i can't see why FAR is so different from vi so it can ignore ctrl+c, and vi can't. just 'cause it's SPARTA^W FAR? Well, that's your implementation. In fact shift-tab returns the previous entry. It's a popular reversal modifier, e.g. in a tabbed browser ctrl-t opens a new tab and ctrl-shift-t opens previously closed tab, in a text editor ctrl-z is undo and ctrl-shift-z is redo. it's good for windows-like systems that they appeared so late, so they don't know what the hell those terminals was. hint: not every terminal was able to distinguish between tab, shift+tab, ctrl+tab, etc. console utility must remain usable on those things. The term has nothing to do with windows, it's from theory of programming languages, such things usually tend to be quite old, maybe even older than unix. ok. it's string literal, as opposed to filename literal. string literals are not subjects of autocompletion. Well, it's not really needed. User only types the first characters without quotes, no need for them really; then quotes are added by the autocompletion algorithm, if needed. effectively turning filename literal to string literal and breaking autocompletion. brilliant! the reason why quoted strings can't be autocompleted is 'cause when you start typing 'em, they are syntatically incorrect: they missing closing quote. if you'll add closing quote, they *can't* be autocompleted, 'cause they are already complete -- you indicated that with closing quote. there is no sense in trying to do all that guesswork. As I explained, the file can start with a difficult to type character, requiring to type it is unnecessarily daunting. and you know what? if you hit tab twice on empty line in bash, you'll eventually see something like this: Display all 4788 possibilities? (y or n) good luck browsing thru that. On windows you can choose to iterate through some first of them or try something else. There are extreme cases, but they are, well, extreme. User folders are likely to have small number of files. hitting tab in empty line must give you list of *ALL* possible commands. cmd doesn't do that? then it's broken. yes, my system has 4788 commands that i can invoke from command line. and yes, typing cat and hitting tab twice will show you the list of all files in the current directory. and once again i must tell you about zsh, which has alot of nice UI enhancements. and sure, you can write custom autocompleters for bash and zsh, using their shell language. there are many packages that allows to autocomplete various arguments to various utilities, shows help when you need it, can extract, show and complete arguments from 'configure' scripts and so on. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:13:31 UTC, ketmar wrote: somehow i can't close cmd.exe by hitting ctrl+c. don't console programs know what ctrl+c is for? Well, maybe because it's a shell, not a utility? shell is a console utility. Hmm... shell is a user interface providing access to the system and utilities. It's different from user utilities in that it's a system component, making the whole thing usable at all. It shouldn't terminate conventionally, because then the user remains without access to the system, that's why console shell doesn't terminate on ctrl-c and GUI shell doesn't terminate on alt-f4. But a text editor should definitely terminate in a conventional manner. strangely, ctrl+c is not working in FAR too. it's not a shell. it's obvious console. Maybe they just don't give a shit about it? Or they see it as a shell. Truth be told, FAR has a quit button at the bottom. It fills in file names which match what you typed, this is exactly what autocompletion is for. What's so difficult to understand there? it's difficult to understand how it does thelepaty. from my expiriense, it's thelepaty is completely wrong each time. and with putting the whole filename i don't even know where was ambiguty (and if it was at all). so afjgjoe means, that this is the only match, or there are more matches? nobody knows, until he hits tab again. and then he lost his afjgjoe and have to either tabbing furiously to get it back, or type it manually. perfectly unusable autocompletion. Well, that's your implementation. In fact shift-tab returns the previous entry. It's a popular reversal modifier, e.g. in a tabbed browser ctrl-t opens a new tab and ctrl-shift-t opens previously closed tab, in a text editor ctrl-z is undo and ctrl-shift-z is redo. Literal means just a value typed in directly instead of being taken from a variable, that's all to it. good luck redefining what the shell does from the times when windows was a term from housebuilding. The term has nothing to do with windows, it's from theory of programming languages, such things usually tend to be quite old, maybe even older than unix. I think, my understanding corresponds to the established one, and bash docs use it too. Some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_%28computer_programming%29 - about literals in general. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_literal - more about string literals specifically; the Delimiter collision section explains, why string literals need escaping. http://www.gavilan.edu/csis/languages/literals.html - an extensive article about literals; interestingly, Hollerith strings don't suffer from delimiter collision and consequently don't need escaping. i was trying to explain you what's going on. ah, ok, good luck arguing with machine code, telling it that it must do not what it do. Well, it's not really needed. User only types the first characters without quotes, no need for them really; then quotes are added by the autocompletion algorithm, if needed. As I explained, the file can start with a difficult to type character, requiring to type it is unnecessarily daunting. and you know what? if you hit tab twice on empty line in bash, you'll eventually see something like this: Display all 4788 possibilities? (y or n) good luck browsing thru that. On windows you can choose to iterate through some first of them or try something else. There are extreme cases, but they are, well, extreme. User folders are likely to have small number of files.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:34:26 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i even knew how to quit vi ctrl-c? nope! it beeps. ;-) Duh! Don't console programs know, what ctrl-c is for? somehow i can't close cmd.exe by hitting ctrl+c. don't console programs know what ctrl+c is for? Well, maybe because it's a shell, not a utility? Windows console does it elegantly without telepathy: it rolls through the list of ambiguous names. this is the worst thing one can do with autocompletion. there is no single visual clue about where it hit the wall. it just continues to spit some filenames when i press tab, replacing the current one. shit! is it broken or what? It fills in file names which match what you typed, this is exactly what autocompletion is for. What's so difficult to understand there? And in quotes quotes are used for preventing autocompletion. ;-) AFAIK quotes are supposed to treat a string with spaces as a single argument. I don't see, how this is related to autocompletion. nope. you are wrong. quotes mark literal values. there is no sense to autocomplete literals, as they essentially not filenames. they are *literals*. Literal means just a value typed in directly instead of being taken from a variable, that's all to it. If you really don't want to autocomplete quoted literals, just don't do it, shouldn't be difficult, after all, unquoted literals may be not meant to be autocompleted either, so there should be no difference. escaped paths are ugly. just don't use paths that needs escaping. ;-) OK, but that's a weak excuse for an ugly interface. In my experience quotes work just fine in place of escaping. using a wrong thing to do something may be handy, but this is still using a wrong thing. Bash docs indicate escaping and quoting serve the same purpose with different syntax: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/bash.1.html#QUOTING Quoting is used to remove the special meaning of certain characters or words to the shell. Quoting can be used to disable special treatment for special characters, to prevent reserved words from being recognized as such, and to prevent parameter expansion. There are three quoting mechanisms: the escape character, single quotes, and double quotes. A non-quoted backslash (\) is the escape character. It preserves the literal value of the next character that follows, with the exception So yeah, escaping is for literals too, if you like them so much. And not a single word about file names and changing meaning of a literal, you made it up. If you care about linux, learn it, ignorance won't do you any good. I mean autocomplete without typing a single character. The system may have no way to type some characters, rolling autocompletion really helps in this case. how can you autocomplete without typing? As usual - by putting a file name from ambiguity list, which consists of all files in the current directory in this case. what awkward UI does that and why? As I explained, the file can start with a difficult to type character, requiring to type it is unnecessarily daunting.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 08:29:57 + Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:34:26 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i even knew how to quit vi ctrl-c? nope! it beeps. ;-) Duh! Don't console programs know, what ctrl-c is for? somehow i can't close cmd.exe by hitting ctrl+c. don't console programs know what ctrl+c is for? Well, maybe because it's a shell, not a utility? shell is a console utility. strangely, ctrl+c is not working in FAR too. it's not a shell. it's obvious console. It fills in file names which match what you typed, this is exactly what autocompletion is for. What's so difficult to understand there? it's difficult to understand how it does thelepaty. from my expiriense, it's thelepaty is completely wrong each time. and with putting the whole filename i don't even know where was ambiguty (and if it was at all). so afjgjoe means, that this is the only match, or there are more matches? nobody knows, until he hits tab again. and then he lost his afjgjoe and have to either tabbing furiously to get it back, or type it manually. perfectly unusable autocompletion. i must tell you that all my built-in command consoles were using this scheme for years, so i have alot of expirience with it. now i dropped it, 'cause it's usability sux. Literal means just a value typed in directly instead of being taken from a variable, that's all to it. good luck redefining what the shell does from the times when windows was a term from housebuilding. So yeah, escaping is for literals too, if you like them so much. And not a single word about file names and changing meaning of a literal, you made it up. If you care about linux, learn it, ignorance won't do you any good. *i* have *no* problems using *nix shells. with all my ignorance and flawed understanding. maybe that's 'cause i know how it was intended to work, and it indeed works that way? you know what? *i* don't have to read any documentation to understand why autocompletion on quoted strings is not working. and *you* have troubles to understand it even with documentation. isn't it strange? i was trying to explain you what's going on. ah, ok, good luck arguing with machine code, telling it that it must do not what it do. I mean autocomplete without typing a single character. The system may have no way to type some characters, rolling autocompletion really helps in this case. how can you autocomplete without typing? As usual - by putting a file name from ambiguity list, which consists of all files in the current directory in this case. what awkward UI does that and why? As I explained, the file can start with a difficult to type character, requiring to type it is unnecessarily daunting. and you know what? if you hit tab twice on empty line in bash, you'll eventually see something like this: Display all 4788 possibilities? (y or n) good luck browsing thru that. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
BTW you should try the terminal.getline function in my terminal.d. It is fairly new, my own reimplementation of an editable getline with history and completion based on the history. One of the things mine does is show a bit of suggestion of it is unambiguous and also if you hit tab twice, it colors in what you've already written. So like: $ footab foobar foobaz There, it would auto fill the ba and color fooba. Then it is easy to see the next key to continue is either r or z. I wonder if gnu getline can do that too, in a list with long commands, it is hard to tell where the ambiguity actually is. Of course, eventually I'll write my own shell with my own completion function! terminal.d is slowly getting there.
Re: D on Slashdot
On 1/22/15 8:27 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: BTW you should try the terminal.getline function in my terminal.d. It is fairly new, my own reimplementation of an editable getline with history and completion based on the history. One of the things mine does is show a bit of suggestion of it is unambiguous and also if you hit tab twice, it colors in what you've already written. So like: $ footab foobar foobaz There, it would auto fill the ba and color fooba. Then it is easy to see the next key to continue is either r or z. I wonder if gnu getline can do that too, in a list with long commands, it is hard to tell where the ambiguity actually is. Of course, eventually I'll write my own shell with my own completion function! terminal.d is slowly getting there. Cool! Is it on dub yet? -- Andrei
Re: D on Slashdot
On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 19:13:08 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Cool! Is it on dub yet? -- Andrei Actually, I think it is: Robik has a stable fork here: https://github.com/robik/consoled http://code.dlang.org/search?q=consoled contains his simpler api in the console thing and my harder to use, but more comprehensive I/O thing in terminal.d. Was updated recently so it should include the new getline function. But as I've said before, I don't personally use dub and have no desire to, especially for these independent modules, it just adds way too much overhead for me (I think package managers in general tend to suck). I'll help with other people's packages but I don't do it myself.
Re: D on Slashdot
On 22.01.15 17:27, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: Of course, eventually I'll write my own shell with my own completion function! terminal.d is slowly getting there. I'm used to editor. Execute current line - skip comment tags (keyboard shortcut) is all I need.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 06:14:16PM +, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:35:18 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:16:47 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Happy Windows user since Windows 3.0. ah. refreshing comment! ;-) Also UNIX user since Xenix, having used almost all known UNIX variants since then. I just prefer Windows, that is it. [...] To each his own. I personally find the Windows UI extremely cumbersome and painful to use, but obviously I'm in the minority since everyone around me (including my wife) finds *my* preferred UI basically unusable. :-P (I don't use gnome/kde/any of that jazz, I run a bare minimum X server with ratpoison as my WM. It's really not much of a window manager at all, just a glorified version of GNU screen. :-P And I like it that way. I have almost completely weaned myself off any rodent dependency, the sole major exception being the browser, but these days I've been wrangling with Vimperator, which is a rodent-free layer on top of Firefox, so I will soon be rid of the rodent completely. I'm a happy man. :-P) T -- Outlook not so good. That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next. -- (Stolen from the net)
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:35:18 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:16:47 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Happy Windows user since Windows 3.0. ah. refreshing comment! ;-) Also UNIX user since Xenix, having used almost all known UNIX variants since then. I just prefer Windows, that is it. -- Paulo
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 09:06:50AM +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 22:43:04 -0800 H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I almost nuked my entire system with a mistyped `rm -rf` command, as I'm sure every *nix person has at least once in his life my expirience was simply doing `chmod -R 600 /` as root. lucky me. and i really hate that person who placed '.' and '/' next to each other. Mistyping a recursive rm command is a relatively easy mistake, but there are worse things than that. One time, an OS upgrade gone wrong left me with my entire filesystem intact, but with a broken, non-functional ld. ... which meant *nothing* can run, because ld is called to dynamically link in libc, etc., for just about *everything* on the system. So, no rm, no ls, no mv, no chmod, etc., etc.. This was on a remote server, too, and the only connection to the box that I had left was just the last ssh bash session to the box. One mistake, and it's bye-bye server. :-P To recover from that, I had to do this: http://eusebeia.dyndns.org/bashcp It was the most intense few hours, I tell ya, when I had to rescue the system from the brink of reinstallation from scratch back to a functioning system without losing any data. Now try that on Windows. :-D ah, and once i accidentally did dd the wrong way and rewrote my harddrive with contents of flash pen. Ouch! On a lighter note, one time I almost peed my pants when, after installing a major OS upgrade, I rebooted and got a kernel panic. (I also made the mistake of having no backup boot media, so there was no other way to get into the system to fix things.) I thought something serious had gone wrong with the upgrade, but fortunately, it turned out that the problem was that I had previously moved my main OS installation to a non-default root (/dev/sdc1 instead of the usual /dev/sda1), but had forgotten to update the bootloader to point to the new root (and didn't notice 'cos Linux tends to just run forever, so it was like 6 months later before this problem finally reared its ugly head). So when the kernel came up it tried to mount root from /dev/sda1 and couldn't, it panicked. Rebooting with the root=/dev/sdc1 parameter saved the day. :-P In many ways it's like D... in spite of all its niggling little problems, once I tasted the power of D, I just can't go back to C/C++ anymore. I used to take pride in being the resident C/C++ guru, but nowadays, doing C/C++ is like scratching on chalkboard. I'll do it if I have to (my employer pays me to do it, so I tolerate it), but I'd never do it again voluntarily. D has ruined my life; I just can't do C/C++ anymore. :-P it's almost the same for me. i hate alot of small things in D (that's why i'm so passioned about them), but i just can't return to C/C++ anymore! it's like going back to MS-DOS. ;-) despite all annoyances D managed to get the main thing right -- thanks to all people that made it possible. +1. T -- I see that you JS got Bach.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 00:11:46 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/2026221/is-d-an-underrated-programming-language?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanonutm_medium=feed https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2t6tvt/the_state_of_d_in_2015/
Re: D on Slashdot
On 1/21/15 1:31 AM, Mathias LANG wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 08:56:54 UTC, Kagamin wrote: [...] Windows console does it elegantly without telepathy: it rolls through the list of ambiguous names. Personally I use http://grml.org/zsh/. It's available as an ArchLinux package. It's also the default shell config for the installer, and it's a really, really neat out-of-the-box config. Love the zsh. -- Andrei
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:56:53 + Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 08:19:39 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i even knew how to quit vi ctrl-c? nope! it beeps. ;-) Duh! Don't console programs know, what ctrl-c is for? somehow i can't close cmd.exe by hitting ctrl+c. don't console programs know what ctrl+c is for? Windows console does it elegantly without telepathy: it rolls through the list of ambiguous names. this is the worst thing one can do with autocompletion. there is no single visual clue about where it hit the wall. it just continues to spit some filenames when i press tab, replacing the current one. shit! is it broken or what? And in quotes quotes are used for preventing autocompletion. ;-) AFAIK quotes are supposed to treat a string with spaces as a single argument. I don't see, how this is related to autocompletion. nope. you are wrong. quotes mark literal values. there is no sense to autocomplete literals, as they essentially not filenames. they are *literals*. escaped paths are ugly. just don't use paths that needs escaping. ;-) OK, but that's a weak excuse for an ugly interface. In my experience quotes work just fine in place of escaping. using a wrong thing to do something may be handy, but this is still using a wrong thing. And autocomplete an empty string too whether it's after a slash or alone. sorry, i can't understand you here. I mean autocomplete without typing a single character. The system may have no way to type some characters, rolling autocompletion really helps in this case. how can you autocomplete without typing? what awkward UI does that and why? It was quite daunting to see a basic operation of getting a file name so quirky and ugly. exactly! that's why i'm installing cygwin on any windows box i plan to use for a long time: i just can't live with windows' shitty shell. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:16:47 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Happy Windows user since Windows 3.0. ah. refreshing comment! ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:36:46 + MattCoder via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 13:19:00 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: It is a lot easier to just run wine dmd and distribute the finished exe than it is to copy all the development files to the windows computer and run it there. For what I'm seeing Wine isn't an emulator like VMWare, it's a layer, so you can compile with wine dmd, but can you test your software too? yep. this is way easier than having two very different development environments. if something works with Wine, there are big chances that it will work in real windows too. so i can do most of the debugging with Wine and then just test the final exe on windows box. and use most of my *nix-based dev tools, some of which doesn't even exist on windows. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 18:04:02 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Mistyping a recursive rm command is a relatively easy mistake, but there are worse things than that. One time, an OS upgrade gone wrong left me with my entire filesystem intact, but with a broken, non-functional ld. That's why it is usually a good idea to put the -r after the folder rather than before. Unless you are on OSX, because think different extend to the unix shell.
Re: D on Slashdot
On 1/20/2015 10:43 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Yah, after I switched to Linux, it suddenly dawned on me that MSDOS was just a crippled cheap imitation of the *real* command prompt... Actually, DOS was modeled after CP/M which was modeled after the DEC PDP-11 operating system. It kinda bugs me that people like to give CP/M all the credit, and say Microsoft just copied CP/M, when CP/M quite obviously copied the look and feel from DEC. I learned how to program on DEC machines. DOS felt right at home :-)
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Happy Windows user since Windows 3.0. -- Paulo
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 07:56:47 + Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 02:23:03 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i even knew how to quit vi ctrl-c? nope! it beeps. ;-) BTW, is there a way to make the shell autocomplete file names completely instead of partially? huh? shell is completing file name to the first ambiguous char. if you have files with names abdu and abde, it will autocomplete to abd. just hit tab again to see the list of variants. as shell can't do telepathy yet, you must help it by resolving ambiguity. you can also consider using zsh, which will not only show you the list of files, but will allow you to select the file you want from that list with arrows. it also can autocomplete things like '/u/lo/sha/' to '/usr/local/share' in one hit. And in quotes quotes are used for preventing autocompletion. ;-) escaped paths are ugly. just don't use paths that needs escaping. ;-) And autocomplete an empty string too whether it's after a slash or alone. sorry, i can't understand you here. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 08:19:39 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i even knew how to quit vi ctrl-c? nope! it beeps. ;-) Duh! Don't console programs know, what ctrl-c is for? BTW, is there a way to make the shell autocomplete file names completely instead of partially? huh? shell is completing file name to the first ambiguous char. if you have files with names abdu and abde, it will autocomplete to abd. just hit tab again to see the list of variants. as shell can't do telepathy yet, you must help it by resolving ambiguity. Windows console does it elegantly without telepathy: it rolls through the list of ambiguous names. And in quotes quotes are used for preventing autocompletion. ;-) AFAIK quotes are supposed to treat a string with spaces as a single argument. I don't see, how this is related to autocompletion. escaped paths are ugly. just don't use paths that needs escaping. ;-) OK, but that's a weak excuse for an ugly interface. In my experience quotes work just fine in place of escaping. And autocomplete an empty string too whether it's after a slash or alone. sorry, i can't understand you here. I mean autocomplete without typing a single character. The system may have no way to type some characters, rolling autocompletion really helps in this case. It was quite daunting to see a basic operation of getting a file name so quirky and ugly.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 08:56:54 UTC, Kagamin wrote: [...] Windows console does it elegantly without telepathy: it rolls through the list of ambiguous names. Personally I use http://grml.org/zsh/. It's available as an ArchLinux package. It's also the default shell config for the installer, and it's a really, really neat out-of-the-box config.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 02:23:03 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i even knew how to quit vi ctrl-c? and now i can't understand anymore why i was happy with windows. i really love my terminal and all the power *nix utilities gave me! ;-) BTW, is there a way to make the shell autocomplete file names completely instead of partially? And in quotes: escaped paths are ugly. And autocomplete an empty string too whether it's after a slash or alone.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 06:08:50 UTC, Israel wrote: I never understood why you guys use DMD on wine. Theres a DMD for linux... Is it because you want to develop your windows programs without having to run a full virtual machine? My users are on Windows but my files are on a Linux computer. It is a lot easier to just run wine dmd and distribute the finished exe than it is to copy all the development files to the windows computer and run it there.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 04:45:23 UTC, Joakim wrote: A nice overview of the current D situation by David Bolton- not the usual filler you see from non-technical authors as he specifically mentions the GC, dub, modules, etc. and details about how they work- D can only hope for more such appreciative and nuanced coverage. Aye.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 13:36:47 UTC, MattCoder wrote: For what I'm seeing Wine isn't an emulator like VMWare, it's a layer Yeah, Windows is, from the application programmer's perspective, basically just a giant library. Wine is an implementation of that library on Linux. so you can compile with wine dmd, but can you test your software too? Yeah, a lot of it. I still run it on the real Windows computer (just need to copy the exe for that, so much easier than copying all the dev files) too but usually it runs close enough to the same on wine that i can find big bugs there.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 13:19:00 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: It is a lot easier to just run wine dmd and distribute the finished exe than it is to copy all the development files to the windows computer and run it there. For what I'm seeing Wine isn't an emulator like VMWare, it's a layer, so you can compile with wine dmd, but can you test your software too? Matheus.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 00:11:46 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/2026221/is-d-an-underrated-programming-language?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanonutm_medium=feed I said this earlier on reddit too, but I think it is a bit too narrow to look for jobs that directly use D as a measure. Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice if there were more, but I actually got a couple out-of-the-blue job offers over the last month explicitly due to my experience with D - they saw it as a good indicator. Now, imagine if a bunch of companies are hiring people with D experience... it is just a matter of time before D users are in decision-making positions... But even if that doesn't come to pass, these are hiring people who recognize the name D and see some value in candidates who know it, even if it just shows ongoing professional development. Not a bad thing!
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:51:26 + bearophile via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Kiith-Sa: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/2026221/is-d-an-underrated-programming-language?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanonutm_medium=feed One interesting comment: http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=6771453cid=48860193 That's the funny thing about languages like D or Go or Rust that try to replace C. C programmers don't use them. If they get any adoption its from elsewhere (rust seems to be hyped by haskell and rubes, Go by pythonistas) hm. i'm a C programmer. i'm using D now -- to the extent that i spent two days making dmd.exe work with Wine to write the simple utility which i can write in two hours using MinGW cross-compiler. actually, my first look at D was exactly 'cause it's C-like enough that i feel myself almost at home, yet it has features i really want and don't have in C (metaprogramming rocks!). and even with all my recent frustration i'd better keep going with D than return to C. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 00:33:00 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 00:11:46 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/2026221/is-d-an-underrated-programming-language?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanonutm_medium=feed I said this earlier on reddit too, but I think it is a bit too narrow to look for jobs that directly use D as a measure. Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice if there were more, but I actually got a couple out-of-the-blue job offers over the last month explicitly due to my experience with D - they saw it as a good indicator. Now, imagine if a bunch of companies are hiring people with D experience... it is just a matter of time before D users are in decision-making positions... But even if that doesn't come to pass, these are hiring people who recognize the name D and see some value in candidates who know it, even if it just shows ongoing professional development. Not a bad thing! What's interesting is that the original linked article was written by a blogger at dice.com, a long-standing job search website: http://news.dice.com/2015/01/20/state-d-2015/ A nice overview of the current D situation by David Bolton- not the usual filler you see from non-technical authors as he specifically mentions the GC, dub, modules, etc. and details about how they work- D can only hope for more such appreciative and nuanced coverage.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 01:56:32AM +, Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Well misery loves company, and right now MS NI are the two companies making me miserable :) I left the MS world after DOS stopped being viable (I have always hated Windows) more than a decade ago, and have never looked back since. Every now and then I'm forced to use Windows (or worse yet, asked to diagnose/fix problems on my wife's Windows laptop), and I hate every second of it. :-P Luckily, putty[1] alleviates some of the pain. :-) [1] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ T -- If it tastes good, it's probably bad for you.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 00:51:29 UTC, bearophile wrote: That's the funny thing about languages like D or Go or Rust that try to replace C. C programmers don't use them. If they get any adoption its from elsewhere (rust seems to be hyped by haskell and rubes, Go by pythonistas) That's because once you replace C, you aren't a C programmer anymore. I mean, sure, I can still write C as well as the next guy and indeed do from time to time, so I guess technically I'm still a C programmer... but the majority of things I would have used C for eight years ago are written in D now.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:07:03 + Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:04:11 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: two days making dmd.exe work with Wine to write the simple utility which i can write in two hours using MinGW cross-compiler. I've been using dmd with wine for a long time... I find it sometimes seems to deadlock, but when it does, I just ctrl+c and run it again. Mildly annoying but not a showstopper. for me it segfaults constantly. being unable to debug it i first made it compilable with MinGW, and then found that root/async.c is... well, the root of all problems. i don't even want to know how it works and what it tries to accelerate; there is non-threaded version there, so i just made my build use it and WOW! no more crashes. the most painful task was to build the working dmd.exe with mingw. to be honest, i first tried to build it with visual studio, thinking that it's something that dmc does wrong, and that alone took me half of a day (vs build scripts aren't working, so i have to struggle with that too in additional to vs itself). then i took a false start and wasted another day. and then i stopped before trying to turn dmd into cross-compiler. ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Well misery loves company, and right now MS NI are the two companies making me miserable :)
Re: D on Slashdot
On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:06:59 -0800 H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 01:56:32AM +, Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:52:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:44:07 + Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i can see how this thread slowly turning into how i was forced to live with windows and how painful it was thread. ;-) Well misery loves company, and right now MS NI are the two companies making me miserable :) I left the MS world after DOS stopped being viable (I have always hated Windows) more than a decade ago, and have never looked back since. Every now and then I'm forced to use Windows (or worse yet, asked to diagnose/fix problems on my wife's Windows laptop), and I hate every second of it. :-P Luckily, putty[1] alleviates some of the pain. :-) [1] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ and you know what is the most frustrating thing in windows for me? it's the fact that when i'm using console, i must hit ESC only once! ;-) i must confess that i was heavy windows user and windows programmer 'till 2002 (or something, i don't remember the exact date). i've seen some *nix systems before, i even knew how to quit vi, but was never using *nix OS as my primary one. and then i was forced to move to GNU/Linux, 'cause my employer was not able to buy enough windows licenses, and someone decides that it's time to throw windows out of the window. ;-) and now i can't understand anymore why i was happy with windows. i really love my terminal and all the power *nix utilities gave me! ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:04:11 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: two days making dmd.exe work with Wine to write the simple utility which i can write in two hours using MinGW cross-compiler. I've been using dmd with wine for a long time... I find it sometimes seems to deadlock, but when it does, I just ctrl+c and run it again. Mildly annoying but not a showstopper.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:07:04 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:04:11 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: two days making dmd.exe work with Wine to write the simple utility which i can write in two hours using MinGW cross-compiler. I've been using dmd with wine for a long time... I find it sometimes seems to deadlock, but when it does, I just ctrl+c and run it again. Mildly annoying but not a showstopper. I never understood why you guys use DMD on wine. Theres a DMD for linux... Is it because you want to develop your windows programs without having to run a full virtual machine?
Re: D on Slashdot
On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 22:43:04 -0800 H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I almost nuked my entire system with a mistyped `rm -rf` command, as I'm sure every *nix person has at least once in his life my expirience was simply doing `chmod -R 600 /` as root. lucky me. and i really hate that person who placed '.' and '/' next to each other. ah, and once i accidentally did dd the wrong way and rewrote my harddrive with contents of flash pen. In many ways it's like D... in spite of all its niggling little problems, once I tasted the power of D, I just can't go back to C/C++ anymore. I used to take pride in being the resident C/C++ guru, but nowadays, doing C/C++ is like scratching on chalkboard. I'll do it if I have to (my employer pays me to do it, so I tolerate it), but I'd never do it again voluntarily. D has ruined my life; I just can't do C/C++ anymore. :-P it's almost the same for me. i hate alot of small things in D (that's why i'm so passioned about them), but i just can't return to C/C++ anymore! it's like going back to MS-DOS. ;-) despite all annoyances D managed to get the main thing right -- thanks to all people that made it possible. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
Kiith-Sa: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/2026221/is-d-an-underrated-programming-language?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanonutm_medium=feed One interesting comment: http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=6771453cid=48860193 That's the funny thing about languages like D or Go or Rust that try to replace C. C programmers don't use them. If they get any adoption its from elsewhere (rust seems to be hyped by haskell and rubes, Go by pythonistas) Bye, bearophile
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:24:35 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 01:07:03 + Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:04:11 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: two days making dmd.exe work with Wine to write the simple utility which i can write in two hours using MinGW cross-compiler. I've been using dmd with wine for a long time... I find it sometimes seems to deadlock, but when it does, I just ctrl+c and run it again. Mildly annoying but not a showstopper. for me it segfaults constantly. being unable to debug it i first made it compilable with MinGW, and then found that root/async.c is... well, the root of all problems. i don't even want to know how it works and what it tries to accelerate; there is non-threaded version there, so i just made my build use it and WOW! no more crashes. the most painful task was to build the working dmd.exe with mingw. to be honest, i first tried to build it with visual studio, thinking that it's something that dmc does wrong, and that alone took me half of a day (vs build scripts aren't working, so i have to struggle with that too in additional to vs itself). then i took a false start and wasted another day. and then i stopped before trying to turn dmd into cross-compiler. ;-) I had some nice experiment control/visualization software in D that was making good impressions (not that physicists really care about programming languages, but it ran fast, had a pleasant syntax and I could safely make major reconfigurations in really short timespans, which made people notice) but ran into a nasty bug in some National Instruments drivers for Linux (which NI doesn't appear to be too interested in fixing) and then wasn't able to build DMD git-head on 64-bit Windows 7 after a couple of weeks of trying. It was like a slow-motion train wreck. So now I use LabView and hate everything about it.
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 06:08:49 + Israel via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:07:04 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 01:04:11 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: two days making dmd.exe work with Wine to write the simple utility which i can write in two hours using MinGW cross-compiler. I've been using dmd with wine for a long time... I find it sometimes seems to deadlock, but when it does, I just ctrl+c and run it again. Mildly annoying but not a showstopper. I never understood why you guys use DMD on wine. Theres a DMD for linux... sadly, windows can't run linux ELFs. Is it because you want to develop your windows programs without having to run a full virtual machine? yes. developing in windows is PITA. besides, windows costs money and eats precious computer resources. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D on Slashdot
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 04:22:54AM +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: [...] i must confess that i was heavy windows user and windows programmer 'till 2002 (or something, i don't remember the exact date). i've seen some *nix systems before, i even knew how to quit vi, LOL... that must be one of the first things anyone learns when confronted with vi's inscrutable UI. :-P I was a big vi* hater for the longest time... until I was forced to use it at work (well OK, my supervisor talked me into it), but then I got hooked, and now I've acquired that twitch in my left little finger that periodically reaches for ESC, with or without reason. :-P but was never using *nix OS as my primary one. and then i was forced to move to GNU/Linux, 'cause my employer was not able to buy enough windows licenses, and someone decides that it's time to throw windows out of the window. ;-) That one deserves a quote from my quote file: English has the lovely word defenestrate, meaning to execute by throwing someone out a window, or more recently to remove Windows from a computer and replace it with something useful. :-) -- John Cowan and now i can't understand anymore why i was happy with windows. i really love my terminal and all the power *nix utilities gave me! ;-) Yah, after I switched to Linux, it suddenly dawned on me that MSDOS was just a crippled cheap imitation of the *real* command prompt... I had been flying an paper airplane, and now I was in a real cockpit for the first time. It was both thrilling and kinda scary (I almost nuked my entire system with a mistyped `rm -rf` command, as I'm sure every *nix person has at least once in his life). But either way, that was it for me. Once you've been in a real airplane, you simply could never go back to paper airplanes anymore. It's not that I have anything against paper airplanes... but it's just... once you've tasted the real thing, you just can't settle for anything less. In many ways it's like D... in spite of all its niggling little problems, once I tasted the power of D, I just can't go back to C/C++ anymore. I used to take pride in being the resident C/C++ guru, but nowadays, doing C/C++ is like scratching on chalkboard. I'll do it if I have to (my employer pays me to do it, so I tolerate it), but I'd never do it again voluntarily. D has ruined my life; I just can't do C/C++ anymore. :-P T -- Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
Re: D hits Slashdot
Daniel de Kok wrote: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/22/1346256 :) I wonder if /that/ will do something to the TPCI... :)
