Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Saturday, 7 June 2014 at 04:34:06 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Am 07.06.2014 01:38, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. Then use normal recent distro release (i.e. latest non-LTS Ubuntu). It will actually require _less_ tinkering because of new kernel versions. And then start tinkering because of lack of distribution support for certain software, specially closed source one with lots of libc fun. It is exactly other way around. Most recent distro releases have best software support. You are trying to use commercial software mentality which does not work well with the way Linux software is developed. Same for libc issue - you can use stuff built vs old libc version with new one, it is actually what we do with DMD distribution.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
Am 07.06.2014 11:47, schrieb Dicebot: On Saturday, 7 June 2014 at 04:34:06 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Am 07.06.2014 01:38, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. Then use normal recent distro release (i.e. latest non-LTS Ubuntu). It will actually require _less_ tinkering because of new kernel versions. And then start tinkering because of lack of distribution support for certain software, specially closed source one with lots of libc fun. It is exactly other way around. Most recent distro releases have best software support. You are trying to use commercial software mentality which does not work well with the way Linux software is developed. Same for libc issue - you can use stuff built vs old libc version with new one, it is actually what we do with DMD distribution. I do have quite some experience with .so dependency hell. -- Paulo
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Saturday, 7 June 2014 at 09:53:52 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Am 07.06.2014 11:47, schrieb Dicebot: On Saturday, 7 June 2014 at 04:34:06 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Am 07.06.2014 01:38, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. Then use normal recent distro release (i.e. latest non-LTS Ubuntu). It will actually require _less_ tinkering because of new kernel versions. And then start tinkering because of lack of distribution support for certain software, specially closed source one with lots of libc fun. It is exactly other way around. Most recent distro releases have best software support. You are trying to use commercial software mentality which does not work well with the way Linux software is developed. Same for libc issue - you can use stuff built vs old libc version with new one, it is actually what we do with DMD distribution. I do have quite some experience with .so dependency hell. -- Paulo In my experience - and by design iirc - compiling against an old libc and then loading a newer one is always fine. If you use an up to date distro (as an end user) you are always on the right side of this.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On 04/06/2014 19:58, Benjamin Thaut wrote: Am 31.05.2014 15:37, schrieb Abdulhaq: There's been 100 votes and the results are: Linux 64 bits: 53 Linux 32 bits: 4 Windows 64 bits:27 Windows 32 bits: 3 Mac: 7 Thats a lot more windows users then I would have expected. I suspect a lot of them could be D newbies, lurkers, or otherwise people who don't code in D that much. That's why I thought the NG poll was more interesting, so we could see who is voting for what. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
One 'other' vote was spoiled. It turns out that the free SurveyMonkey account only allows 100 votes max, but the profile has been much the same since 50 votes so I think the ratios are clear. Perhaps you should try http://www.surveygalaxy.com . That is what I use when I need a survey.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 at 18:58:09 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote: Am 31.05.2014 15:37, schrieb Abdulhaq: There's been 100 votes and the results are: Linux 64 bits: 53 Linux 32 bits: 4 Windows 64 bits:27 Windows 32 bits: 3 Mac: 7 Thats a lot more windows users then I would have expected. I spend most of my days on Windows. At work it is company policy, unless one is doing iOS related development. At home, I got fed up tinkering GNU/Linux since my Slackware days (1995), as laptop support still tends to fall in some parts, namely graphics support, wireless chipsets and battery usage. -- Paulo
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Fri, 2014-06-06 at 13:34 +, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] At home, I got fed up tinkering GNU/Linux since my Slackware days (1995), as laptop support still tends to fall in some parts, namely graphics support, wireless chipsets and battery usage. Is this still true? As far as I am aware nVIDIA and Intel graphics support is fine on Linux, ditto Intel wifi support. My AMD card in my dual graphics laptop is 4 years old and AMD have given up supporting it, so that's a fail compared to nVIDIA who are still supporting my 7 year old card. As for battery life, my X201 still gives about 6 hours use per charge, would Windows do any better? -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 13:58:59 UTC, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 2014-06-06 at 13:34 +, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] At home, I got fed up tinkering GNU/Linux since my Slackware days (1995), as laptop support still tends to fall in some parts, namely graphics support, wireless chipsets and battery usage. Is this still true? As far as I am aware nVIDIA and Intel graphics support is fine on Linux, ditto Intel wifi support. My AMD card in my dual graphics laptop is 4 years old and AMD have given up supporting it, so that's a fail compared to nVIDIA who are still supporting my 7 year old card. As for battery life, my X201 still gives about 6 hours use per charge, would Windows do any better? Battery usage is still a common problem. Everything has been working perfectly for years now.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
Am 06.06.2014 16:36, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 13:58:59 UTC, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 2014-06-06 at 13:34 +, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] At home, I got fed up tinkering GNU/Linux since my Slackware days (1995), as laptop support still tends to fall in some parts, namely graphics support, wireless chipsets and battery usage. Is this still true? As far as I am aware nVIDIA and Intel graphics support is fine on Linux, ditto Intel wifi support. My AMD card in my dual graphics laptop is 4 years old and AMD have given up supporting it, so that's a fail compared to nVIDIA who are still supporting my 7 year old card. Not if you care about the latest versions of OpenGL, OpenCL and WebGL support. Having Windows also allows playing around with DirectX from time to time. As for battery life, my X201 still gives about 6 hours use per charge, would Windows do any better? Battery usage is still a common problem. Everything has been working perfectly for years now. Not really, case in point my Netbook Asus EEE PC 1215B, which was sold in Germany via Amazon with GNU/Linux support pre-installed. After one year usage, the wireless card stopped working with IPv4 routers, because Ubuntu devs decided to replace the proprietary driver in the LTS distribution, although the open source version was still work in progress. So I got stuck using a cable until the open source driver reached feature parity with the removed closed source driver. Undoing what the Ubuntu update did was a mess that would require re-flashing the driver firmware, as such I had better things to do than hack around. -- Paulo
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 19:44:53 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Battery usage is still a common problem. Everything has been working perfectly for years now. Not really, case in point my Netbook Asus EEE PC 1215B, which was sold in Germany via Amazon with GNU/Linux support pre-installed. After one year usage, the wireless card stopped working with IPv4 routers, because Ubuntu devs decided to replace the proprietary driver in the LTS distribution, although the open source version was still work in progress. LTS distribution This is the problem. Don't use LTS releases for desktops and your Linux experience will be much more pleasant. It is natural but wrong approach simply because kernel and driver support is evolving so fast that LTS versions can never really catch up. Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
Am 06.06.2014 22:24, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 19:44:53 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Battery usage is still a common problem. Everything has been working perfectly for years now. Not really, case in point my Netbook Asus EEE PC 1215B, which was sold in Germany via Amazon with GNU/Linux support pre-installed. After one year usage, the wireless card stopped working with IPv4 routers, because Ubuntu devs decided to replace the proprietary driver in the LTS distribution, although the open source version was still work in progress. LTS distribution This is the problem. Don't use LTS releases for desktops and your Linux experience will be much more pleasant. It is natural but wrong approach simply because kernel and driver support is evolving so fast that LTS versions can never really catch up. Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. -- Paulo
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. Then use normal recent distro release (i.e. latest non-LTS Ubuntu). It will actually require _less_ tinkering because of new kernel versions.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Am 06.06.2014 22:24, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 19:44:53 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Battery usage is still a common problem. Everything has been working perfectly for years now. Not really, case in point my Netbook Asus EEE PC 1215B, which was sold in Germany via Amazon with GNU/Linux support pre-installed. After one year usage, the wireless card stopped working with IPv4 routers, because Ubuntu devs decided to replace the proprietary driver in the LTS distribution, although the open source version was still work in progress. LTS distribution This is the problem. Don't use LTS releases for desktops and your Linux experience will be much more pleasant. It is natural but wrong approach simply because kernel and driver support is evolving so fast that LTS versions can never really catch up. Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. -- Paulo I gave up on Ubuntu due to bugs, crashes and general instability that started to appear around 9.10. I switched to Fedora 16 after Ubuntu 12.04 still had not resolved all the stability issues, X crashes every package upgrade etc. Fedora has never given me any real problems... I switched to Arch about 12 months ago because I wanted the latest clang, gcc et. al. and didn't want to wait 3-4 months for the next Fedora release. I've never looked back. Arch is by far the most stable and up to date Linux I've ever used.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
Am 07.06.2014 01:38, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. Then use normal recent distro release (i.e. latest non-LTS Ubuntu). It will actually require _less_ tinkering because of new kernel versions. And then start tinkering because of lack of distribution support for certain software, specially closed source one with lots of libc fun. -- Paulo
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
Am 07.06.2014 06:12, schrieb ed: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 22:04:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Am 06.06.2014 22:24, schrieb Dicebot: On Friday, 6 June 2014 at 19:44:53 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Battery usage is still a common problem. Everything has been working perfectly for years now. Not really, case in point my Netbook Asus EEE PC 1215B, which was sold in Germany via Amazon with GNU/Linux support pre-installed. After one year usage, the wireless card stopped working with IPv4 routers, because Ubuntu devs decided to replace the proprietary driver in the LTS distribution, although the open source version was still work in progress. LTS distribution This is the problem. Don't use LTS releases for desktops and your Linux experience will be much more pleasant. It is natural but wrong approach simply because kernel and driver support is evolving so fast that LTS versions can never really catch up. Bleeding edge distros have best h/w support, though that may cost some time wasted of system tinkering once in a while. I got tired of tinkering. It must work out of the box, otherwise I have better things to do with my life. -- Paulo I gave up on Ubuntu due to bugs, crashes and general instability that started to appear around 9.10. I switched to Fedora 16 after Ubuntu 12.04 still had not resolved all the stability issues, X crashes every package upgrade etc. Fedora has never given me any real problems... I switched to Arch about 12 months ago because I wanted the latest clang, gcc et. al. and didn't want to wait 3-4 months for the next Fedora release. I've never looked back. Arch is by far the most stable and up to date Linux I've ever used. The time I used to jump around distributions is long gone. I realized how much time I was taking away from my social life not doing anything else than re-installations. This is a travel netbook, which after these issues now works as it should, except for not doing hibernation properly, which I can live without. I am not opening the Padora box trying out other distributions and a sequence of lost evenings and weekends. -- Paulo
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On 03/06/14 18:54, Nick Sabalausky wrote: By using Java, HTML5 or Node.js ;) I'm sure that way it'd be very easy to get your memory usage up that high! Use Flash instead, then it will eat the CPU as well :) -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Tuesday, 3 June 2014 at 16:54:33 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 6/3/2014 12:28 PM, Justin Whear wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:20:42 +, justme wrote: Just too many people run 64 bits just because. How else you gonna use 256GB of RAM? By using Java, HTML5 or Node.js ;) I'm sure that way it'd be very easy to get your memory usage up that high! Or compiling a ctRegex apparently (yesterday's IRC chat).
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
Am 31.05.2014 15:37, schrieb Abdulhaq: There's been 100 votes and the results are: Linux 64 bits: 53 Linux 32 bits: 4 Windows 64 bits:27 Windows 32 bits: 3 Mac: 7 Thats a lot more windows users then I would have expected.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 13:59:17 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: I'm wondering what's the Linux 32 bit usages - embedded I guess. 64 bits seems to dominate in general. A couple of linux users seem not to know if they are 32 or 64 bit? On many laptops there's no extra benefit from running 64 bits. I have never ever written code that honestly needs 64 bits, although I understand that big data or game developers may need it. Just too many people run 64 bits just because.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:20:42 +, justme wrote: On Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 13:59:17 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: I'm wondering what's the Linux 32 bit usages - embedded I guess. 64 bits seems to dominate in general. A couple of linux users seem not to know if they are 32 or 64 bit? On many laptops there's no extra benefit from running 64 bits. I have never ever written code that honestly needs 64 bits, although I understand that big data or game developers may need it. Just too many people run 64 bits just because. How else you gonna use 256GB of RAM?
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On 6/3/2014 12:28 PM, Justin Whear wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:20:42 +, justme wrote: Just too many people run 64 bits just because. How else you gonna use 256GB of RAM? By using Java, HTML5 or Node.js ;) I'm sure that way it'd be very easy to get your memory usage up that high!
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Tuesday, 3 June 2014 at 16:20:43 UTC, justme wrote: I have never ever written code that honestly needs 64 bits, although I understand that big data or game developers may need it. Disk cache is one big data application especially important for notebooks with HDD.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 13:37:26 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: There's been 100 votes and the results are: Linux 64 bits: 53 Linux 32 bits: 4 Windows 64 bits:27 Windows 32 bits: 3 Mac: 7 Other: 6: ArchLinux Android Centos 6 MAC OSX, LINUX 64, Windows 64, FreeBSD 64 bsd64 One 'other' vote was spoiled. It turns out that the free SurveyMonkey account only allows 100 votes max, but the profile has been much the same since 50 votes so I think the ratios are clear. If anyone has an OS other than the ones mentioned above then perhaps they could mention it in this thread. See the graph at https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-5GGGJV5/
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On 1/06/2014 1:45 a.m., Abdulhaq wrote: On Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 13:37:26 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: There's been 100 votes and the results are: Linux 64 bits: 53 Linux 32 bits: 4 Windows 64 bits:27 Windows 32 bits: 3 Mac: 7 Other: 6: ArchLinux Android Centos 6 MAC OSX, LINUX 64, Windows 64, FreeBSD 64 bsd64 One 'other' vote was spoiled. It turns out that the free SurveyMonkey account only allows 100 votes max, but the profile has been much the same since 50 votes so I think the ratios are clear. If anyone has an OS other than the ones mentioned above then perhaps they could mention it in this thread. See the graph at https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-5GGGJV5/ I'm personally not surprised by these results. But they will be skewed because of time zones and the limited number of participants. Which is a shame. Not to mention all those who use D plus don't read the NG.
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 13:52:46 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 1/06/2014 1:45 a.m., Abdulhaq wrote: On Saturday, 31 May 2014 at 13:37:26 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: There's been 100 votes and the results are: Linux 64 bits: 53 Linux 32 bits: 4 Windows 64 bits:27 Windows 32 bits: 3 Mac: 7 Other: 6: ArchLinux Android Centos 6 MAC OSX, LINUX 64, Windows 64, FreeBSD 64 bsd64 One 'other' vote was spoiled. It turns out that the free SurveyMonkey account only allows 100 votes max, but the profile has been much the same since 50 votes so I think the ratios are clear. If anyone has an OS other than the ones mentioned above then perhaps they could mention it in this thread. See the graph at https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-5GGGJV5/ I'm personally not surprised by these results. But they will be skewed because of time zones and the limited number of participants. Which is a shame. Not to mention all those who use D plus don't read the NG. Shame it didn't make 24 hrs as all time zones would have been covered, still I think it's probably a pretty fair picture of the whole thing. I'm wondering what's the Linux 32 bit usages - embedded I guess. 64 bits seems to dominate in general. A couple of linux users seem not to know if they are 32 or 64 bit?
Re: SurveyMonkey for D users OS - Results
On 5/31/14, 6:45 AM, Abdulhaq wrote: See the graph at https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-5GGGJV5/ 100 voters - no decimals in percentages :o). -- Andrei
