Re: DDOX search support and new 2.064.2 Phobos docs
On Saturday, 4 January 2014 at 22:42:28 UTC, Namespace wrote: On Saturday, 4 January 2014 at 22:14:24 UTC, Organic Farmer wrote: Would be great to have template constraints back in the docs (see e.g. std.algorithm.all). Indispensable info on templates in and of themselves. Gut gemacht! Überraschend wie viele Deutsche hier sind. :D Ja, FYI es gibt auch #d.de auf freenode ;) (Promoting the German d irc channel)
why Ddbg is not updated anymore...
I dunno if anyone knew this before but i wanted to give my kudos to a guy that did a lot for the D community by developing the still best debugger for the D Programming Language Ddbg (http://ddbg.mainia.de/releases.html) The question often came up why it is not updated anymore. Well the reason for this is that Jascha Wetzel the developer of Ddbg earns the big bucks now with his product Turbolence 4D (http://jawset.com/) and his company "Jawset Visual Computing" "TURBULENCE.4D makes the most realistic and efficient methods in CG fluid dynamics available in standard software" Well and recently his product got used in the new Bruce Willis movie "Surrogates" (http://chooseyoursurrogate.com/). All in all I whish him the best for the future and that he will never forget D when developing next cutting edge software. The downside is that Ddbg finally needs a new developer for the future to get updated.
Re: New debugger coming soon!
On 09.08.2010 15:33, awishformore wrote: On 09/08/2010 06:45, Aldo Nunez wrote: I'll be posting the D debugger I've been working on at dsource this week. It'll be a set of debugging libraries that you can build your own debugger with, along with a Debug Engine plug-in for Visual Studio. I'll post another announcement as soon as it's available. Very nice, sir! Does the plug-in work for all versions of VS? And is it supposed to work with Visual D? /Max I hope it is, what we don't need is yet another possibility to code and debug D. VisualD + cv2pdb works very well for me. i hope the two developers are trying to sync both approaches.
Re: Visual D 0.3.16 released
On 25.09.2010 04:05, Aldo Nunez wrote: Rainer Schuetze wrote: * now supports and installs the Mago debugger (http://dsource.org/projects/mago_debugger) Thanks a lot, Rainer, for including the debugger with Visual D. I know you put some work into that, and it's definitely appreciated. I'd like to try that one myself but it does not work for me. I dont know why, but the debugger just triggers breakpoints and gives me a callstack, i get no locals,auto or watch variables. is this a bug or is it just not possible with mago yet ? * new profiler window to browse trace.log This is great! Before you ever announced the IDE, I had ideas of putting in a feature like this if I were to write one. So, I'm glad you did it. Yeah i like that one too. it is so much more readable than the crypy logfile format. still it is quite useless for me cause it does not support multithreaded applications.
Re: D 2.0 Stacktrace
Thanks that is pretty cool ! On 06.10.2010 13:50, Benjamin Thaut wrote: I wrote a small piece of sourcecode that generates stacktraces in D 2.0 under windows. It works both with the pdb and cv debug symbol format. For Exceptions that are derived from the Error class the trace information is automatically appended, this causes all builtin D errors to get a stacktrace information. The only point where this does not work is the Access Vioaltion error, as it does not call the stacktrace callback function for some reason. It is very easy to use, just copy the two files from the zip archive to your root source directory and import the stacktrace module inside your main file. For more informaiton and the download go to: http://3d.benjamin-thaut.de Let me know what you think. Kind Regards Benjamin Thaut
Re: D 2.0 Stacktrace
I found a thread about the missing access violations: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/TraceHandler_not_being_called_on_Access_violation_112557.html#N112580 did you issue a bug report or was there any progress on this, i mean the thread is kinda old. On 06.10.2010 13:50, Benjamin Thaut wrote: I wrote a small piece of sourcecode that generates stacktraces in D 2.0 under windows. It works both with the pdb and cv debug symbol format. For Exceptions that are derived from the Error class the trace information is automatically appended, this causes all builtin D errors to get a stacktrace information. The only point where this does not work is the Access Vioaltion error, as it does not call the stacktrace callback function for some reason. It is very easy to use, just copy the two files from the zip archive to your root source directory and import the stacktrace module inside your main file. For more informaiton and the download go to: http://3d.benjamin-thaut.de Let me know what you think. Kind Regards Benjamin Thaut
First big PITA in reallife D project
Hey guys I wanted to discuss my first major depressing experience with D in a reallife project. First off here is the according bug report : http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4951 I have to mention that it was by far not the first bug i encountered in D but it has never been such a PITA. I spent hours and hours of searching, rewriting and crawling my code for the cause of this issue. Just to finally find out that it was not my code but some bug in druntime. What i do: I spawn multiple threads all periodically connecting to some webservers waiting for the request to finish. Every request is totally independent of the others. There is no data sharing in my code. Now i have a protocol that makes my process send one last important request when shutting down. For a clean shut down i wanted to make sure that all the other threads are shut down first. That way the final request of the process is the very last. So i wait for every thread to finish their request and stop them. BUT it wont work like that. AFTER i stopped all other threads some strange behavior of druntime makes every creation of an InternetAddress instance (internally trying to resolve host) impossible (throws an exception). Additionally even if the Internet Addresses were created upfront the TcpSockets wont connect but throw. I have no idea what the heck is going on inside of the druntime that could cause this but in my opinion it makes designing a big server environment pretty much impossible because it would mean that i cannot let any of my user generated threads exit unless i want to shutdown completely anyway. Perhaps one side note: I am testing and having these issues under Windows. I have never been so tempted to use another language while coding in D as i was this time and that makes me sad. - Stephan
Re: dmd 1.065 and 2.050 release
On 03.11.2010 13:29, Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote: On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:35:27 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: This is primarily a bug fix release. http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.1.065.zip http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.050.zip Thanks to all contributors for yet another good release. My personal favourites this time must be the relaxed purity rules (yay, now I can actually use pure), the improvements to Tuple (finally, proper indexing!), and the fixing of bug 4465 (which may seem trivial, but which I've been running into several times a day for a long time). -Lars Speaking of fancy pure. When will will the std lib actually start to use it ? I tried to use pure lately but as soon as i used phobos methods i hit a wall. e.g why is std.string.format not pure ? i did not look into it but in my pov it does not change any state and does just return a value depending on the given arguments. Stephan
Re: dmd 1.067 and 2.052 release
On 18.02.2011 11:18, Walter Bright wrote: Now with 64 bit Linux support! (Though expect problems with it, it's brand new.) http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.1.067.zip http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.052.zip Nice release in theorie but since i did not get the time to test the beta it seems some regressions made it into the release that rendered my codebase unbuildable... The problem is that i cannot reduce it properly. (win32, dmd 2.052) 1) Without changing anything suddenly i get linker errors. I am building an executable linking in a static lib that contains some methods using std.random.uniform. When i now try to build the executable the linker complains about std.random.uniform not being found. What the heck ? The whole rest of phobos is there and this is missing ?? 2) This one is really weird. After removing all the std.random.uniform crap from above it compiles and links but crashes right in the beginning befor even entering my main method. This just happens in debug builds. Funny thing is that this is not due to some unittest of mine. And correct me if i am wrong but phobos is shipped without unittests either, right ? Any help is welcome. Stephan
Re: dmd 1.067 and 2.052 release
On 21.02.2011 12:34, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: On 21.02.2011 11:53, Stephan wrote: On 18.02.2011 11:18, Walter Bright wrote: Now with 64 bit Linux support! (Though expect problems with it, it's brand new.) http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.1.067.zip http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.052.zip Nice release in theorie but since i did not get the time to test the beta it seems some regressions made it into the release that rendered my codebase unbuildable... The problem is that i cannot reduce it properly. (win32, dmd 2.052) 1) Without changing anything suddenly i get linker errors. I am building an executable linking in a static lib that contains some methods using std.random.uniform. When i now try to build the executable the linker complains about std.random.uniform not being found. What the heck ? The whole rest of phobos is there and this is missing ?? Having hit similar things earlier, I'll tell you my recipe. I usually rebuild *everything* step by step starting with and including all 3rd party D libraries with new dmd. And making sure nothing from old version sliped on the path. Yes, that's tiresome, especially when you haven't touch those libraries for quite a long time (assuming they are sort of stable). I doubt that. That was the first thing i tried coming from a professional C++ work flow ;) 2) This one is really weird. After removing all the std.random.uniform crap from above it compiles and links but crashes right in the beginning befor even entering my main method. This just happens in debug builds. Funny thing is that this is not due to some unittest of mine. And correct me if i am wrong but phobos is shipped without unittests either, right ? Any help is welcome. Stephan
Re: Visual D 0.3.24 released
On 08.05.2011 11:31, Rainer Schuetze wrote: Hi, as the newest version of Visual D includes some major improvements, I'd like to announce its release here. Visual D is a Visual Studio package providing both project management and language services for the D programming language. It works with Visual Studio 2005, 2008 and 2010 as well as the free Visual Studio Shells. Added features worth noting include * support for Object Browser and Class View * runs a parser in the background to underline syntax errors (no semantic analysis) * new version of the mago debugger that fixes some issues with exceptions and improves the call stack display Highlights in previous versions not announced here: * support for Code Definition Window * search and replace based on the D tokenizer, ignoring white spaces and comments and supporting brace matching * new compilation modes: compile and link seperately, compile only Visual D comes with an easy installer and can be downloaded here: http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald Best, Rainer This is the most valuable tool for my daily work with D. Thanks a bunch!
Re: Visual D 0.3.24 released
On 09.05.2011 15:56, Michal Minich wrote: V Sun, 08 May 2011 11:31:29 +0200, Rainer Schuetze wrote: as the newest version of Visual D includes some major improvements, I'd like to announce its release here. Many thanks for the great work you put into this IDE. Since I switched to it from Descent, it is great productivity booster for me. The debugger support is fantastic. One improvement I would welcome - is project manager that automatically matches file system structure and allows to inc/exclude specific files and folders - similarly as in C#. If you want to include a whole bunch of files into a project you simply drag packages (folders) and VD automatically creates the same folder structure in your project. What still does not work is moving those folders around inside of the project structure ;)
Re: Goldie Parsing System v0.5 - Speed
On 18.05.2011 05:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
Goldie Parsing System v0.5 is now out. This version focuses mainly on speed
improvements.
== Links: ==
Homepage and Documentation:
http://www.semitwist.com/goldie/
Prepackaged Downloads:
http://www.dsource.org/projects/goldie/browser/downloads
== New in v0.5: ==
- Improved lexing/parsing speed by about 5x-6x.
- Small additional speedup lexing languages with large character sets
(such as Unicode).
- GRMC: Grammar Compiler: Supports {All Valid} character set.
- GRMC: Grammar Compiler: Complex grammars are compiled to CGT up to
about 4x-8x faster.
- GRMC: Grammar Compiler: Verbose (-v) flag shows each step and amount
of time taken.
- Parse Anything: No more unhandled exception when parsing a source with
an error.
- Fixed to work with DMD 2.053 (still works with 2.052, too).
There are still more optimizations than can be done, but I felt this was
enough to warrant a new release.
Great work.
Is it possible to generate a parser for D with this ?
Regards,
Stephan
Re: dmd 1.069 and 2.054 release
On 11.07.2011 05:07, Walter Bright wrote: Continuing the trend, more people contributed to this release than any other! http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.1.069.zip http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.054.zip Nice release list. "Added std.array.uninitializedArray and std.array.minimallyInitializedArray" The online documentation of std.array doesn't seem to be updated. The above isn't present there.
Re: dmd 1.069 and 2.054 release
On 11.07.2011 05:07, Walter Bright wrote:
Continuing the trend, more people contributed to this release than any
other!
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.html
http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.1.069.zip
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html
http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.2.054.zip
I like this one:
"Added -property switch"
But since phobos does not even build with it (in win32) it is pretty
much useless:
phobos\std\file.d(228): Error: not a property GetLastError:
version(Windows) this(in char[] name,
uint errno = GetLastError,
string file = __FILE__,
size_t line = __LINE__){...}
Re: dmd 1.069 and 2.054 release
On 12.07.2011 15:10, Trass3r wrote:
In general good work!
But again phobos makes a simple std.string function unCTFEable.
Now I have to use an ugly hack to achieve something as simple as toUpper:
mixin( (){char[] tmp = "...".dup; toUpperInPlace(tmp); return tmp;}() );
Damn i found that too and wanted to mention it in the dmd-beta list b4
release. But the workaround is simple. At least this one was fixed:
http://lists.puremagic.com/pipermail/dmd-beta/2011-July/000773.html
Cause that was making cl4d with all its string mixins pretty much
unbuildable at all.
Re: dmd 1.069 and 2.054 release
On 12.07.2011 17:07, Trass3r wrote:
Now I have to use an ugly hack to achieve something as simple as
toUpper:
mixin( (){char[] tmp = "...".dup; toUpperInPlace(tmp); return tmp;}() );
Damn i found that too and wanted to mention it in the dmd-beta list b4
release. But the workaround is simple. At least this one was fixed:
http://lists.puremagic.com/pipermail/dmd-beta/2011-July/000773.html
Cause that was making cl4d with all its string mixins pretty much
unbuildable at all.
Yeah I've done some crazy shit in the cl4d code :D
But in the end that was just another workaround cause template mixins
couldn't mixin constructors.
Good news: this seems to have been fixed.
Bad news: there still is another problem. I asked about it in D.learn.
btw, that problem you reported, where did it occur in cl4d?
It occured for the mixin method to generate the different exception
classes. Specifically the toCamelCase method was not working there.
Re: dmd 2.057 release
On 15.12.2011 12:02, Adrian wrote: - for the crash to happen the project has to be compiled with the switches -noboundscheck and -deps="bug.dep". if you omit one of them the crash wont show. sounds like this one i encountered last release already: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6951
Re: cl4d OpenCL wrapper moved to Github
On 29.12.2011 13:31, Trass3r wrote: On Thursday, 29 December 2011 at 10:32:49 UTC, Extrawurst wrote: nice work. why moved to github ? I'm sick of having to switch from git to hg commands every time I work on cl4d. So I converted it to git, cleaned up the history and just put it on Github cause it has nicer features. btw. with dmd2057 and the -property flag it does not build anymore. I see, haven't used that switch yet. ok i can just use the c header ports, the wrapper just makes dmd choke "Stack Overflow" with this simple cmd line: dmd opencl\c\cl.d opencl\c\cl_ext.d opencl\c\cl_gl.d opencl\c\cl_gl_ext.d opencl\c\cl_platform.d opencl\c\opencl.d opencl\all.d opencl\buffer.d opencl\commandqueue.d opencl\context.d opencl\device.d opencl\error.d opencl\event.d opencl\host.d opencl\image.d opencl\kernel.d opencl\memory.d opencl\platform.d opencl\program.d opencl\sampler.d opencl\wrapper.d
Re: Visual D 0.3.30 released: Code completion from semantic analysis on the horizon
On 07.01.2012 15:41, Rainer Schuetze wrote: Hi, I'd like to announce the release of a new version of Visual D. Visual D is a Visual Studio package providing both project management and language services for the D programming language. It works with Visual Studio 2005-2010 and 11 as well as the free Visual Studio Shells. Highlights of this version 0.3.30 include - syntax highlighting improvements regarding scope(guard), __ctfe, is, in and predefined versions - added checkbox for options -gs and -property to project configuration - debugger and build improvements - experimental: code completion and tool tips from semantic analysis of source code See http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald/wiki/VersionHistory for a full list of changes. The code completion from semantic analysis is not complete yet, but I think it can already be very helpful. You'll have to enable it explicitly in the D Language options due to it's experimental status. The Visual D installer can be downloaded from its website at http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald Have fun, Rainer Wow thanks Rainer, this is a really cool release. the 'experimental' semantics are already awesome! now i want the completion-suggestions to tell me the types (method,member ..) with protection symbols ;) Big Kudos ! S.
Re: dmd 1.073 and 2.058 release
On 15.02.2012 05:47, Walter Bright wrote: Anyone care to count up the number of bug fixes here? http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.html http://ftp.digitalmars.com/dmd.1.073.zip http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html https://github.com/downloads/D-Programming-Language/dmd/dmd.2.058.zip std.net.curl documentation is missing
Re: What happened to next DConf 2013 talk: Shared libraries in D by Martin Nowak?
On Wednesday, 29 May 2013 at 15:33:36 UTC, Ettienne Gilbert wrote: BTW, thanks for all the hard work in getting it all out! Rgds +1
Re: Facebook puts bounties on bugs in the D programming language implementation
On Friday, 15 November 2013 at 21:05:56 UTC, Joseph Frank wrote: On Friday, 15 November 2013 at 17:51:54 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, As part of a larger program to support the open source community, Facebook has is putting bounties on bugs in the D programming language implementation. The initial budget is small, but if we find that it accelerates development we may add to it. As a sample we've added $80 bounties to three regressions: http://goo.gl/JvajFP http://goo.gl/LLhRIw http://goo.gl/2crX4V We're still tweaking the best allocation of sums to bugs depending on their importance and difficulty. I will update this list once I've allocated the entire budget, likely before the end of day today. Beyond the money involved, this is a gesture of good faith, confidence, and investment in the future of D. Let's respond in kind! Andrei The D Programming Language? $80? Ha... Fail. It is a start! What IDE is facebook using for D development? Would it be an option to support the development of that too?
Re: Mobile App STACK4 with a D backend
On Friday, 27 December 2013 at 16:38:16 UTC, Martin Krejcirik wrote: On 27.12.2013 12:33, extrawurst wrote: Does this maybe look like the problem you are having ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2580084 Yes, just blank screen and nothing happens. Well yeah that was alreday clear... i meant the answer someone posted there: "Just go to settings->apps and transfer the game from internal onto your phone memory. It's a common issue" Does this solve the problem ?
Re: New home page
On 05.10.2010 04:28, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Walter Bright" wrote in message news:i8d77c$1bf...@digitalmars.com... Stewart Gordon wrote: The layout breaks in anything but the default text zoom. The annoying thing about this is everyone says "don't use tables for layout, use CSS." Except that using CSS for layout DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY. With tables, I can get 3 columns that are actually 3 columns, not 3 columns that are a side effect of bugs in CSS. YES!! This is a pet peeve of mine (but then, what isn't? ;) ). I've even been meaning to write up a little article about it. For styling, CSS is, umm, acceptable. But it's crap for layout. And every argument I've seen against using tables for layout has been either extremely minor, questionable/uncited, or just plain bullcrap. Speaking of, if anyone has links to well-regarded "why you shouldn't use tables for layout" information, please post them. Whenever I get around to doing that little write-up I'd like to try to refute as much as I can. Or be proven wrong before making a bigger ass of myself. Either way :) The point in not using the table _element_ for layout is that HTML should be used to define the _content_ of your page not its appearance. It's all about what kind of data you have at hand: a heading, a list, tabular data, a figure with an image, etc. It says nothing about how the page is supposed to look, it's just the pure content. After defining the content the appearance is setup with CSS. And there table layouts are used pretty often (if not always). If you don't care about older IE versions you can use "display: table" and companions. Basically these display properties just make elements behave like the corresponding HTML elements (e.g. "table-cell" maps to the td element). Prior to that CSS only had mechanisms for defining float layouts (the "float" property) but these can be used for table layout, too. It's not that difficult but it's less flexible. All you need is a container with "overflow: hidden". To create columns inside it just set some child elements to "fload: left". This will look like this: -- overflow: hidden -- || | -- float: left -- -- float: left -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - | | | | | | - | || -- This method works quite well, only IE 6 makes some trouble because the floats trigger some bugs (but if you add a few pixels of reserve space it will be all right for IE 6). The main drawback of this method is that the floated boxes are independent of each other, each gets its own height and with. If you want them to have a consistent layout you have to assign fixed widths and highs. There are some workarounds for this (e.g. using a repeating background image on the container) but I suppose I already talked to much about CSS. Basically it's all about separation of content and presentation. It's not always easy (nor always necessary) but if done right you don't have to touch the HTML code for your next redesign (and the search engines are very happy about proper HTML code, too). ps.: I'm usually only reading this newsgroup because I'm somewhat new to D. But I couldn't resist answering about CSS. ;) Happy programming Stephan Soller
Re: New home page
On 05.10.2010 12:24, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8epjv$1d3...@digitalmars.com... (and the search engines are very happy about proper HTML code, too). I've actually come across this point before, that search engines will rank a page that doesn't use tables for layout better than one that does. I can't really argue against that point, but I am really curious. Does anyone have links to any authoritative information on this? I would also like to see solid information on that topic but I'm afraid this statement is very hard to catch. The Google SEO Guide mainly focuses on the title and description of websites as well as headings an links. I suppose more detailed structures and elements (lists, tables, em, code, etc.) are not that important for search engines but for other tools that need to work with the document structure (js scripts, screen readers, semantic analysis, data mining, etc.). Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 05.10.2010 12:13, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8epjv$1d3...@digitalmars.com... On 05.10.2010 04:28, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Walter Bright" wrote in message news:i8d77c$1bf...@digitalmars.com... Stewart Gordon wrote: The layout breaks in anything but the default text zoom. The annoying thing about this is everyone says "don't use tables for layout, use CSS." Except that using CSS for layout DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY. With tables, I can get 3 columns that are actually 3 columns, not 3 columns that are a side effect of bugs in CSS. YES!! This is a pet peeve of mine (but then, what isn't? ;) ). I've even been meaning to write up a little article about it. For styling, CSS is, umm, acceptable. But it's crap for layout. And every argument I've seen against using tables for layout has been either extremely minor, questionable/uncited, or just plain bullcrap. Speaking of, if anyone has links to well-regarded "why you shouldn't use tables for layout" information, please post them. Whenever I get around to doing that little write-up I'd like to try to refute as much as I can. Or be proven wrong before making a bigger ass of myself. Either way :) The point in not using the table _element_ for layout is that HTML should be used to define the _content_ of your page not its appearance. ... Basically it's all about separation of content and presentation. It's not always easy (nor always necessary) but if done right you don't have to touch the HTML code for your next redesign (and the search engines are very happy about proper HTML code, too). Yea, I do agree in principle. But in my experience, certain realities of CSS complicate the issue. Basically, I've spent enormus amounts of time and energy getting certain layouts to work properly and reliably in CSS. There's been plenty of times I've come across that and eventualy just threw my hands up and said "Ok, the heck with purity and ideals, I just need to get it done: So hello tables!". And every single time I've done that everything went smooth from that point on. If CSS could handle layouts as well as tables can, then I would be all for abandoning tables-for-layouts. But CSS just isn't there yet. And I don't see it progressing much. Plus I often find redesigning HTML a lot more straightforward than tweaking typical production-scale CSS (CSS can get real hairy real quick). Not only that, I've recently started doing my sites in a very MVC/rails/django-ish way whenever possible, so for me, the HTML usually *is* just as much part of the view as the CSS anyway. And all I have to do to redesign it is just tweak an html template file. As a bonus, that allows for much more flexibility in my redesigns (and much more easily) than CSS could ever hope to achieve without CSS itself getting a fundamental overhaul. ps.: I'm usually only reading this newsgroup because I'm somewhat new to D. But I couldn't resist answering about CSS. ;) Welcome :) Thanks. :) I have to agree that CSS layout techniques have a somewhat steep learning curve. It's straight forward to use floating boxes for column layouts and bugs in IE still hurt. However it's the same in every language/field (e.g. it was totally new to me to use "() ? x : y" to get the common type of two expressions). Once you get to know some of the techniques it's way more easy to do stuff in CSS, often just because you have less text to type and everything in one place (a few lines in a CSS file). If CSS could handle layouts as well as tables can, then I would be all for abandoning tables-for-layouts. But CSS just isn't there yet. And I don't see it progressing much. CSS is absolutely ready, IE 6 and 7 are not. As soon as you can assume IE 8 or any decent browser you can use CSS tables. Sitepoints Book [Everything You Know About CSS Is Wrong][1] is a very practical guide to these handy properties. There are also some more experimental column or grid based properties but I haven't seen any of them out in the wild. CSS 3 defines quite some interesting stuff but it's very hard to tell if or when someone can use it. [1]: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/csswrong1/ Plus I often find redesigning HTML a lot more straightforward than tweaking typical production-scale CSS (CSS can get real hairy real quick). "Production-scale" CSS can get really ugly really fast without a fitting coding style (e.g. I'm almost always defining margin and padding on any layout elements, just to have the actual values available at the same code line). Not only that, I've recently started doing my sites in a very MVC/rails/django-ish way whenever possible, so for me, the HTML usually *is* just as much part of the view as the CSS anyway. And all I have to
Re: New home page
inct technologies with distinct mental patterns each one well suited for its purpose (HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript). Thats maybe the biggest problem for people that don't use this stuff all the time. Depending on what you're doing you have to totally switch your way of thinking. However there are people that know this stuff as well as Walter knows compilers and in my opinion they did a great job designing these technologies. They perfectly complement each other and that's a great achievement. They are not perfect but there is constant progress and thats important (just as with D). Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 06.10.2010 02:08, Arlo White wrote:
That's because HTML/CSS is a pretty terrible language for anything
beyond simple layouts. It shares more with Word/PDF/PostScript in terms
of its purpose and history than it does with real gui layout engines
(GTK, QT, etc).
HTML/CSS is primary made for documents not applications. If you want you
can simply make every element a block level element and use JavaScript
for layout. I don't know GTK and QT in depth but then you should have
about the same level of possibilities as with these layout engines. It
wouldn't surprise me if GUI frameworks like jQuery UI actually do this.
However the way GUI frameworks approach layout isn't very well suited
for documents and therefore I'm very happy that they oriented CSS on
documents (there were several early drafts and what we know today was
just the draft from Howcome Lie).
Hardcore HTML/CSS people tout the virtues of separating the content from
the presentation. The problem is that HTML has implicit presentation
that you often can't override with CSS. There are limits to what you can
do with positioning. If I want to rearrange elements in my page I have
to change the HTML, I can't do it all on the CSS side. That's not
separation of content from presentation!
You can do quite a lot of stuff with the "position" property. As soon as
you defined something as "position: absolute" you can move it around as
you want. How well that (and other techniques) work depends on your HTML
structure. However I have to agree that in most practical cases you have
to modify the HTML in any way because the document structure changes.
Real separation of the presentation has to happen right at the data
layer. But that's server side in most applications. So you run your data
through one view abstraction (template language such as Freemarker, PHP,
JSP etc), then to HTML, and then polish it with CSS. Oh, and that
application runs on an app server that runs in a Java virtual machine
that runs in an VMware OS that runs on a real OS that actually accesses
real hardware. That's an absurd number of layers...
Anyway, to get back to HTML. They'll say use divs not tables because a
table represents a distinct concept not a layout element and it has
accessibility implications. And yet I you can't layout things with divs
in the same way that I can with a table. And even if there are obscure
CSS properties that let me, half the user's browsers don't support them.
Unfortunately this is true (if "half the user's browsers" refers to IE 6
and 7). In other browsers however you can do exactly the same as with
tables but with significantly less HTML elements ("display: table"
property). Plus the other positioning models allow you to do things that
are not possible with HTML. Netscape 4 once supported an "layer" element
which could have been used to do stuff like you can do with "position:
absolute" but the resulting HTML had nothing to do with "a document" any
more.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that sees the naked Emperor.
People are so excited about the Internet but they don't realize that
browsers are just implementing one view language that's 15 years old and
really isn't all that great. The beauty of the Internet is the emergent
properties that arose from the concept of linking sites. But that's not
something that has to be unique to the HTML language itself.
And sure there's some cool stuff in HTML5 but a pig's still a pig even
when you velcro a TV to its head and a database on its back.
-Arlo
I have to agree that it's all about linking content that really created
the web. It's not unique to HTML (I even saw thinks like that in "The
mother of all demos" form Douglas Engelberth, 1968) but more to HTTP.
HTML just happened to be wildly used to create documents on the web.
As for HTML5 still being a pig… well I definitely agree at some parts
but they already cleaned up a lot. Just because the structure of C once
was quite ugly (IMHO) doesn't mean that D is still ugly (since it's
based on C). Technologies as well as taste evolve constantly.
On 10/04/2010 02:23 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
That's what bugs me. Something as straightforward as a 3 column layout
shouldn't require "tricks" for it. Googling it found 3 pages dedicated
to explaining this "trick" (each of them wildly different, of course).
Re: New home page
On 05.10.2010 19:28, Walter Bright wrote: Stephan Soller wrote: This is especially handy when doing a presentation about a programming language since you can use JavaScript to write a small syntax highlighter (the grammar in the D documentation was really handy for that). :) A javascript D syntax highlighter? Please post! I will extract it out of the presentation. But be aware, it's just a small tool I used to highlight the D code in my presentation about D. Don't expect something like a proper lexer. ;)
Re: New home page
On 07.10.2010 04:26, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8i10k$2a8...@digitalmars.com... On 06.10.2010 02:08, Arlo White wrote: That's because HTML/CSS is a pretty terrible language for anything beyond simple layouts. It shares more with Word/PDF/PostScript in terms of its purpose and history than it does with real gui layout engines (GTK, QT, etc). HTML/CSS is primary made for documents not applications. So true. That, combined with HTTP's stateless nature (and the exploit-prone nature of trying to build state on top of it), is why I view "web as a platform" as being little different from using PDF as an application platform. Heck, the PDF spec is so open-ended it could certainly be done. Never read the PDF spec, but I don't believe that it includes a world wide network of web servers, does it? From an application developers point of view I have to agree, HTTPs stateless nature is a bit problematic at first. However as soon as it comes to scalability the stateless approach saves you from _a lot_ of trouble. I can't think the Internet could be what it is with HTTP being design to be statefull. With the advent of REST people not look at HTTP a bit more and realize that there is more to it than GET and POST. If you want you can simply make every element a block level element and use JavaScript for layout. I don't know GTK and QT in depth but then you should have about the same level of possibilities as with these layout engines. It wouldn't surprise me if GUI frameworks like jQuery UI actually do this. Heh, layouts that magically break with JS off. Fun :) I bet you're right though that something like that is out there on the web (or will be coming). You know what's even weirder, though? (And I hope on not veering too far offtopic with this...) I've actually some across pages that will load perfectly fine with JS off, and *then* two seconds after loading it will be automatically replaced with a different page that says "This site doesn't work without JS." Ummm, yea, it obviously *did* work...I *saw* it work... There is very much abuse or improper user of JavaScript in the Internet. Especially in the cooperate world where people usually don't have the time or are not willing to really understand the thoughts behind the tools they use (HTTP, HTML, CSS, JS). Business people are usually happy as long as it looks fancy. Even among professional web developers I don't know that many that really care much about the technical "correctness" of what they do. There are many ways to get the job done, who cares if it was a "right" one? (reminds me of a program I once hat to understand: it only used 8 global variables and lots of gotos… but it worked… and everyone was happy with it, except me). Well, in the case to work with or without JS you have to make a distinction. A "document" should work all right without JS since its main purpose is to be viewed. However if you build a "real" web application in the sense of being more like a desktop application its almost a lost cause to make it work without JS. It will only cause a great deal of redundancy of code and an overcomplicated architecture. It is possible though if you really feel the need. However I would just stick to using JS and in conjunction with a REST interface. For a "application" this gives you a great deal of flexibility while still maintaining a simple architecture and good interoperability with other systems. You can do quite a lot of stuff with the "position" property. As soon as you defined something as "position: absolute" you can move it around as you want. How well that (and other techniques) work depends on your HTML structure. However I have to agree that in most practical cases you have to modify the HTML in any way because the document structure changes. Unfortunately, as soon as you start using "position: absolute", you usually start causing problems for resize behavior. Unless you're using a static-width layout which is generally considered bad style (for good reason). That's one thing I've noticed about CSS layouts that I think a lot of web developers tend to overlook. You generally *can* get what you want with CSS as long as you assume page width is always the same. But once you decide "web pages should be dynamic width" and try to make it look correct at different widths, that's when CSS *really* starts to break down. Tables tend to resize far better, and give you far better control over resize behavior. Actually tables prevent you from reordering your elements according to page size but this limitation also affects other techniques. To be honest I use fixed with designs a lot. Usually I just don't have so much content that I have to use every part
Re: New home page
On 06.10.2010 16:26, Stephan Soller wrote: On 05.10.2010 19:28, Walter Bright wrote: Stephan Soller wrote: This is especially handy when doing a presentation about a programming language since you can use JavaScript to write a small syntax highlighter (the grammar in the D documentation was really handy for that). :) A javascript D syntax highlighter? Please post! I will extract it out of the presentation. But be aware, it's just a small tool I used to highlight the D code in my presentation about D. Don't expect something like a proper lexer. ;) Unfortunately I don't have the time right now to properly extract it and clean it up. I don't feel it good enough to be released here but well, here's the link to the presentation of a talk I gave about D1: http://events.mi.hdm-stuttgart.de/archive/2010-04-13-d-einf%C3%BChrung/der-coole-stoff/Pr%C3%A4sentation%20(HTML).html The syntax highlighter (search the source code for "syntax highlighter") was hacked together in a few hours. It's tuned towards the code used in the presentation and nowhere near usable for general D code. I tested it on some of my code and right now it highlights the "in" in "main" as a keyword… The file also has a little presentation system build in. Press "p" to enable it and arrow down do fade in the next item. However it only really fits if you're looking at the page in full screen mode in Opera (no other browsers support the "projection" mode yet). You can also take a look at the video of the talk but it's in German. In the first part a friend of mine introduces D and after that I'm showing some more features of the language. Be aware that the video does not work in Opera right now (they broke something in 10.60). There is a link to the second part of the talk: http://events.mi.hdm-stuttgart.de/2010-04-13-d-einf%C3%BChrung#der-coole-stoff While the JS syntax highlighter was abandoned I created a language highlighter for GEdit (a Linux text editor). I wasn't happy with the provided one so I made a new one based on the D language specification. If someone here uses GEdit (or an editor that uses the GTKSourceView2 widget) you can give it a try: http://svn.arkanis.de/projects/tools/gedit_config/trunk/config/langs/d.lang https://svn.arkanis.de/projects/tools/gedit_config/trunk/config/styles/doblivion.xml https://svn.arkanis.de/projects/tools/gedit_config/trunk/tests/syntax.d The first link is the language specification (just a big bunch of reg expressions) and the second is a color scheme I created for it. The third file is just a small test case to see if it works. It's pretty complete I believe: it even contains asm instructions and differs between function literals and function types (because I wanted them to be shown in a different color). If there is a need I can try to port it to JavaScript. Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 07.10.2010 11:02, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8jvip$1ed...@digitalmars.com... On 07.10.2010 04:26, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8i10k$2a8...@digitalmars.com... On 06.10.2010 02:08, Arlo White wrote: That's because HTML/CSS is a pretty terrible language for anything beyond simple layouts. It shares more with Word/PDF/PostScript in terms of its purpose and history than it does with real gui layout engines (GTK, QT, etc). HTML/CSS is primary made for documents not applications. So true. That, combined with HTTP's stateless nature (and the exploit-prone nature of trying to build state on top of it), is why I view "web as a platform" as being little different from using PDF as an application platform. Heck, the PDF spec is so open-ended it could certainly be done. Never read the PDF spec, but I don't believe that it includes a world wide network of web servers, does it? Not explicitly as far as I'm aware, but then neither does HTML aside from URLs. And the PDF format does have provisions for files/data of arbitrary types to be embedded into it. So that could be used to embed HTTP URLs, or any other form of network-oriented links, or any other application-related information/instructions/data you want. Then you could build CSS/JS/CGI-like stuff on top of all that. And all of a sudden "PDF-readers" become a really shitty application platform just like what happened with HTML and web browsers. Interesting point of view. So PDF basically equals to HTML in that regard. Never thought about it that way but you're probably right. :) To be honest I use fixed with designs a lot. Usually I just don't have so much content that I have to use every part of the screen. ;) I've been tempted to do that as well just because controlling resize-flow is such a pain with HTML/CSS as they currently are. For instance, try to make a resizable box with bit-mapped borders that behaves reliably (I've needed to do a lot of that for a client recently). Easy as pie with tables and CSS background images. But with anything else in CSS, I've become convinced it's just not possible. Actually is pretty easy in CSS. I also had to do it a lot in the past. You just nest as many elements (usually divs) inside each other as you need background images. Then you use one of those divs to create the border for one side: just assign a background image to this side and a proper padding that makes sure only this side is visible. Corners are a bit tricky to do no problem if you make the main container "position: relative" and then position the corner divs with "position: aboslute". However for most of my layouts I found that I didn't need a variable height and therefore 4 divs where sufficient. This method had it's troubles for IE 5 but in IE 6 you shouldn't have much of a problem (maybe one bug, don't remember exactly). Interesting. On modern browsers you can simply user border images (as many as you want). This also eliminates the need for semantically stupid HTML elements. However thanks to box-shadow, border-radius and colors with alpha transparency I hardly use graphics programs to design any more. I just do it directly in HTML/CSS with is usually quite a bit comfortable (and faster!). I usually like to minimize bitmapped stuff on pages too, just because it's simpler, it can still get acceptable results, and I'm no artist ;) But then when the client has a design they want it to look like and it includes things that can only be done as images, well, then I just don't have the energy or patience to try to talk them out of it - I'll just toss in whatever I need to to make it work, even if that means tables, and be done with it. If I get a design from a client I do that to. I don't use tables but most often a combination of floats and relative/absolute positioning but usually with quite a lot of images in it. Even if they don't have a finished design arguing about it often is a lost cause anyway. However for my own personal project (or in case I have to do the design myself) these new CSS techniques come in quite handy (if the environment allows it...). I used it for my [personal website][1] and it was quite handy. The only images are the header image, icons and the background gradient. The gradient only because I was to lazy to look up the proper properties and do some cross browser testing (not sure if Opera support gradient yet though). [1]: http://arkanis.de/ Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 07.10.2010 14:56, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8k8k9$230...@digitalmars.com... On 07.10.2010 11:02, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Not explicitly as far as I'm aware, but then neither does HTML aside from URLs. And the PDF format does have provisions for files/data of arbitrary types to be embedded into it. So that could be used to embed HTTP URLs, or any other form of network-oriented links, or any other application-related information/instructions/data you want. Then you could build CSS/JS/CGI-like stuff on top of all that. And all of a sudden "PDF-readers" become a really shitty application platform just like what happened with HTML and web browsers. Interesting point of view. So PDF basically equals to HTML in that regard. Never thought about it that way but you're probably right. :) Well, they were both created as document formats ;) I usually like to minimize bitmapped stuff on pages too, just because it's simpler, it can still get acceptable results, and I'm no artist ;) But then when the client has a design they want it to look like and it includes things that can only be done as images, well, then I just don't have the energy or patience to try to talk them out of it - I'll just toss in whatever I need to to make it work, even if that means tables, and be done with it. If I get a design from a client I do that to. I don't use tables but most often a combination of floats and relative/absolute positioning but usually with quite a lot of images in it. Even if they don't have a finished design arguing about it often is a lost cause anyway. However for my own personal project (or in case I have to do the design myself) these new CSS techniques come in quite handy (if the environment allows it...). I used it for my [personal website][1] and it was quite handy. The only images are the header image, icons and the background gradient. The gradient only because I was to lazy to look up the proper properties and do some cross browser testing (not sure if Opera support gradient yet though). [1]: http://arkanis.de/ Not to complain, just FYI, this is what that page looks like for me: http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis1.png http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis2.png http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis3.png Interestingly, if I turn JS on, than it'll look a lot better *until* it finishes loading, at which point it goes back to looking just like those screenshots. Thanks for the screenshots. May I ask which version of Firefox (if I see that correctly) your're using? The JS stuff is quite interesting since the page actually does not use JS at all. The only situation where JS should actually be involved is for IE (because you need to introduce unknown elements to IE before using them). I'm not aware that any version of Firefox interprets IE conditional comments (although there was talk about it once) so this behavior is somewhat concerning. However this page uses quite new and still in progress browser stuff (HTML5, CSS3) so it'll give old browsers a very hard time. It's more like a showcase for the new stuff. Take a look at [this screenshot][1] to see how it's supposed to look like. It was made with font antialiasing on a standard TFT but the text might look a bit awkward on CRTs or TFTs with a different subpixel layout (usually the OS takes care of that when rendering text). There's also the [design prototype][2] which does not use the "new" techniques. It should work on your browser (at least most stuff, I never IEified it nor did extensive cross browser testing since it's only a prototype). [1]: http://arkanis.de/projects/arkanis-development-v3/ubuntu.png [2]: http://arkanis.de/weblog/2008-05-25-modern-ambience-design-prototype/ And finally there's also the [old design][3] which works in IE 5.5, 6 and 7 (ditched 4, 5, and 5.01 and I'm not sure about 8). It took about two weeks to make it work in IE 5.5 and 6 if I remember correctly. [3]: http://arkanis.de/projects/arkanis-development-v2/photo-ambience/ Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 07.10.2010 16:23, Lutger wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Stephan Soller wrote: This is especially handy when doing a presentation about a programming language since you can use JavaScript to write a small syntax highlighter (the grammar in the D documentation was really handy for that). :) A javascript D syntax highlighter? Please post! This is a popular javascript syntax highlighter: http://alexgorbatchev.com/SyntaxHighlighter/ I've written a D plugin for it (its trivial and not completely correct): http://github.com/Lutger/d_utils/blob/master/shBrushD.js Thanks for the link! I think I'll use that for my next D stuff. :) When doing a presentation about a programming language I somehow tend to write a small and minimalistic syntax highlighter for it. Balances the odds of content creation vs. programming a bit I guess... Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 07.10.2010 23:59, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8kmuc$15...@digitalmars.com... On 07.10.2010 14:56, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8k8k9$230...@digitalmars.com... [1]: http://arkanis.de/ Not to complain, just FYI, this is what that page looks like for me: http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis1.png http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis2.png http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis3.png Interestingly, if I turn JS on, than it'll look a lot better *until* it finishes loading, at which point it goes back to looking just like those screenshots. Thanks for the screenshots. May I ask which version of Firefox (if I see that correctly) your're using v2.0.0.20 Which actually kinda surprises me because I could have sworn I was on a much later version of the 2.x line. I *know* there was a period where it kept updating itself seemingly all the time (which got quite irritating when I just wanted to go to a particular URL). But I guess that must have been the only 2.x version I was able to find after giving up on FF3. And IIRC, the built-in update won't let me update to anything less than FF3. And yea, I know FF2 is really old, but I tried 3.0 and 3.5 and the JS was only marginally faster, it doesn't seem to fix any of the rendering bugs I've come across in FF2 (I have 3.5 on my Linux box, just for site testing), and every other change they made I hated and downloaded extentions to undo...until I realized there was no extention to un-unify the unified forward/back buttons (which I had thought was a good idea when IE7 came out -- until I actually used IE7), and realized the only winestripe-like things for FF3 weren't nearly as good as the real winestripe. So I figured "Why bog it down with even *more* addons just to turn it into a half-baked FF2, when I can just use the real FF2?" YouTube bitches to me about it, but well, fuck YouTube; never liked having over-compressed videos pre-embedded into a web-based player anyway. Maybe you should consider looking into some other browsers? Opera, Chrome and other Gecko based browsers might give you a better experience that the newer Firefox versions. This is the reason why there are different browsers after all. Staying with FF2 for to long might really hurt your browsing experience since quite a bunch of functionality was added to the browsers itself lately. And trust me, it's really way easier to use the new stuff than all the old workarounds (e.g. webfonts, svg, css based animations, transparency, dropshadows, video, and the list goes on...). I really expect many people to use this stuff in the near future, not only because it's cool but mainly because it's so much easier than the old stuff. I've seen people holding on to Netscape 4 because they didn't like the newer versions. They could endure a surprising amount of totally broken pages but the internet wasn't fun for them. Fortunately we have a lot more alternatives today. :) The JS stuff is quite interesting since the page actually does not use JS at all. The only situation where JS should actually be involved is for IE (because you need to introduce unknown elements to IE before using them). I'm not aware that any version of Firefox interprets IE conditional comments (although there was talk about it once) so this behavior is somewhat concerning. Don't worry. Turns out it was just a quirk caused by one of the million add-ons I have installed to make the web bearable. When I disabled all of them, the behavior and results with JS on were exactly the same as with JS off. However this page uses quite new and still in progress browser stuff (HTML5, CSS3) so it'll give old browsers a very hard time. It's more like a showcase for the new stuff. I see, that explains it. Personally, I'll have no interest in CSS3 unless MS decides to backport IE9 to XP. I hate Win7 and refuse to let XP die (Granted, Win7's not quite as bad as Vista, but it's close). Take a look at [this screenshot][1] to see how it's supposed to look like. It was made with font antialiasing on a standard TFT but the text might look a bit awkward on CRTs or TFTs with a different subpixel layout (usually the OS takes care of that when rendering text). There's also the [design prototype][2] which does not use the "new" techniques. It should work on your browser (at least most stuff, I never IEified it nor did extensive cross browser testing since it's only a prototype). [1]: http://arkanis.de/projects/arkanis-development-v3/ubuntu.png [2]: http://arkanis.de/weblog/2008-05-25-modern-ambience-design-prototype/ And finally there's also the [old design][3] which works in IE 5.5, 6 and 7 (ditched 4, 5, and 5.01 and I'm not sure about 8). It took about two weeks to make it work in IE 5.5 a
Re: New home page
On 07.10.2010 11:41, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 06/10/2010 15:25, Stephan Soller wrote:
On 06.10.2010 02:08, Arlo White wrote:
That's because HTML/CSS is a pretty terrible language for anything
beyond simple layouts. It shares more with Word/PDF/PostScript in terms
of its purpose and history than it does with real gui layout engines
(GTK, QT, etc).
HTML/CSS is primary made for documents not applications. If you want you
can simply make every element a block level element and use JavaScript
for layout. I don't know GTK and QT in depth but then you should have
about the same level of possibilities as with these layout engines. It
wouldn't surprise me if GUI frameworks like jQuery UI actually do this.
The issue is not with level of possibilites. HTML/CSS has as much
possibilities as many GUI toolkits, if not more. (there is really a lot
of stuff you can do you HTML/CSS if you figure out how to). The issue is
that it's incredibly hard to do that, HTML/CSS is so convoluted. (and
I'm talking about proper flowing designs, now pixel-based, fixed-width
ones. Those are fairly easy in both HTML and GUI toolkits).
It does not feel convoluted to me but I have learned HTML/CSS gradually
as they evolved. Therefore I might not be able to properly see how it
looks from the distance if someone doesn't know the details. To me it
looks well structured (block vs. inline elements, different distinct
layout models, typography, etc.). There sure a some parts that deserve a
little cleanup and simplification but I can't think of any right now.
I'm just curious about your point of view. What parts of CSS look
convoluted to you?
And what do you mean "use JavaScript for layout"? You can't use
JavaScript for layout. You can use JavaScript to programmatically
manipulate the CSS properties of HTML elements, but you are still using
the same HTML rules for layout, so the difficulty is unchanged.
You're right. At the end HTML/CSS simply is the interface to tell the
browser about the structure and appearance of your document. However you
can make every element a block level element ("display: block;") and use
absolute positioning. Then each element basically behaves like a window
of an window manager and you can use your own algorithms to do the
layout by calculating the position and dimensions (top, left, height,
width). At that stage you don't have to think about any of the layout
models of CSS and you're totally independent of them.
Happy programming
Stephan
Re: New home page
On 10.10.2010 22:42, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8sh5u$2ij...@digitalmars.com... On 07.10.2010 23:59, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8kmuc$15...@digitalmars.com... On 07.10.2010 14:56, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller"wrote in message news:i8k8k9$230...@digitalmars.com... [1]: http://arkanis.de/ Not to complain, just FYI, this is what that page looks like for me: http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis1.png http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis2.png http://www.semitwist.com/download/arkanis3.png Interestingly, if I turn JS on, than it'll look a lot better *until* it finishes loading, at which point it goes back to looking just like those screenshots. Thanks for the screenshots. May I ask which version of Firefox (if I see that correctly) your're using v2.0.0.20 Which actually kinda surprises me because I could have sworn I was on a much later version of the 2.x line. I *know* there was a period where it kept updating itself seemingly all the time (which got quite irritating when I just wanted to go to a particular URL). But I guess that must have been the only 2.x version I was able to find after giving up on FF3. And IIRC, the built-in update won't let me update to anything less than FF3. And yea, I know FF2 is really old, but I tried 3.0 and 3.5 and the JS was only marginally faster, it doesn't seem to fix any of the rendering bugs I've come across in FF2 (I have 3.5 on my Linux box, just for site testing), and every other change they made I hated and downloaded extentions to undo...until I realized there was no extention to un-unify the unified forward/back buttons (which I had thought was a good idea when IE7 came out -- until I actually used IE7), and realized the only winestripe-like things for FF3 weren't nearly as good as the real winestripe. So I figured "Why bog it down with even *more* addons just to turn it into a half-baked FF2, when I can just use the real FF2?" YouTube bitches to me about it, but well, fuck YouTube; never liked having over-compressed videos pre-embedded into a web-based player anyway. Maybe you should consider looking into some other browsers? Opera, Chrome and other Gecko based browsers might give you a better experience that the newer Firefox versions. This is the reason why there are different browsers after all. - Safari is ruled out because it's a blurry mess (all for the sake of making it look more like the printed version? WTF?) and forces useless background processes, has zero respect for my system's look-and-feel, and has no "Adblock Plus", "NoScript", or "BetterPrivacy" (Three FF add-ons that provide functionality that, for me, are absolutely 100% essential). - IE7+ is out because it has no "Adblock Plus", "NoScript", or "BetterPrivacy", and I don't like the unified forward/back buttons. - Iron is out because I *hate* absolutely everything about it's UI, and it doesn't have "NoScript" (I've heard it has "AdBlock Plus", but I didn't see it when I first looked so I don't know). Also, configurability seems to be practically non-existent compared to FF. - Chrome is out because of all the reasons for which Iron was created in the first place. I won't even allow Chrome (or Safari) on my computer at all. - Opera is ruled out because it costs money and every time I tried the demos it seemed to combine the worst aspects of all the other browsers, plus had by far the most rendering problems. - And everything else like IE6-, Netscape, WebTV, Lynx, etc are all ruled out for obvious reasons. Adblock Plus, NoScript and BetterPrivacy are a combination that's hard to find in other browsers. I suppose you have to do some manual configuration to get that done. Many browsers today "compress" the UI in order to free more horizontal space for the websites. There is an ongoing development towards wider displays that shrink in height and the new browser UIs are a logical counter development to that. In Opera however it's just the default configuration and with a few clicks you can bring every toolbar back (and add or remove buttons, etc.). Never found a way to revert that in Firefox or Chrome but I haven't searched every "about:config" option. Regarding configuration Opera is on pair with Firefox if not even more flexible, therefore they don't have extensions. Opera giving the most rendering bugs is actually a funny story. They had the most advanced "quirks mode" (IE 5 compatibility mode). It changed quite a bit in the rendering of websites and was very close to IE 5 (I really doubt they had fun programming this). However many developers didn't know how to trigger standard compliant mode back then (these
Re: New home page
On 11.10.2010 13:01, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "Stephan Soller" wrote in message news:i8ufto$17d...@digitalmars.com... Adblock Plus, NoScript and BetterPrivacy are a combination that's hard to find in other browsers. Yup. And that's speaks very poorly for the overall state of web browsers. It's amazing that with so many offerings there's none that are actually any good. Not only browsers but more general the understanding of privacy on the Internet among its users. Many browsers today "compress" the UI in order to free more horizontal space for the websites. There is an ongoing development towards wider displays that shrink in height Which, of course, is an absolutely rediculous trend that's been created almost entirely on faulty notions, but that's a whole other rant... I absolutely agree on that. and the new browser UIs are a logical counter development to that. In Opera however it's just the default configuration and with a few clicks you can bring every toolbar back (and add or remove buttons, etc.). Never found a way to revert that in Firefox or Chrome but I haven't searched every "about:config" option. Yea, "about:config" is truly awful. I consider any setting that's only in there to be non-existant (unless I just happend to come across someone mentioning a specific one, as was the case with turning off animating images and favicons (I turned off favicons only because FF's "no animate" setting doesn't work for favicons)). ps.: Opera is free since over 5 years, so you might want to take a look since much has changed since then. Just gave the latest version a try (turns out the last I tried was 9.x and was about three years old, although I know that wasn't the first time I had tried it). I haven't spent much time with it yet, but my initial impressions: When it first started, first thing I did was get rid of that awful "menu" button. Then I balked at how incredibly ugly the real menu and tabs are. I went to find a way to disable themes, but then discovered that it was *already* on the supposed "Windows Native Skin", which is quite obviously anything but. Looks exactly like GTK to me. There's the tell-tale GTK "Rediculously Excessive Padding", and the almost-equally tell-tale "Invisible text for light-on-dark users (black-on-black)". And then as if that wasn't bad enough, there's this really amateur-ish hover/pressed "highlight" on the top-level menu items, which 1. is obviously non-native since native has no hover effect and *I* have my selection color set to blue, but this uses white instead, and 2. results in even *more* invisi-text (white-on-white). The tabs don't even try to be tabs at all, just GTK buttons acting like tabs. And the menus appear with a fade-in that's clearly *intended* to look like the subtle fade-in native stuff uses, except unlike the native apps they're jarringly...well, "choppy" is the only way I can think to describe it. And there seems to be some weird drawing-conflict between them and the "tabs" during that fade-in. It looks really really bad, and disabling effects doesn't get rid of it. The whole UI is just a complete amateur job (which is pretty much what I remember from every other time I tried it, now that I think of it). Haven't tried any actual pages or any sort of AdBlock/NoScript/BetterPrivacy sort of functionality yet. Ok, I'll stop recommending browsers then. Maybe you should just grab WebKit or Gecko and build your own UI around it. This will also give you (almost) all the privacy control you want. ;) Just to give the Opera guys some credit: technically their UI is pretty well done and fast (it's based on Qt and they skipped hardware acceleration for this release because it wasn't the bottleneck). The default design is a different story but I personally think they hit what the masses currently would call a "nice design". Happy programming Stephan
Re: New home page
On 13.10.2010 14:30, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 10/10/2010 15:23, Stephan Soller wrote:
On 07.10.2010 11:41, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 06/10/2010 15:25, Stephan Soller wrote:
On 06.10.2010 02:08, Arlo White wrote:
That's because HTML/CSS is a pretty terrible language for anything
beyond simple layouts. It shares more with Word/PDF/PostScript in
terms
of its purpose and history than it does with real gui layout engines
(GTK, QT, etc).
HTML/CSS is primary made for documents not applications. If you want
you
can simply make every element a block level element and use JavaScript
for layout. I don't know GTK and QT in depth but then you should have
about the same level of possibilities as with these layout engines. It
wouldn't surprise me if GUI frameworks like jQuery UI actually do this.
The issue is not with level of possibilites. HTML/CSS has as much
possibilities as many GUI toolkits, if not more. (there is really a lot
of stuff you can do you HTML/CSS if you figure out how to). The issue is
that it's incredibly hard to do that, HTML/CSS is so convoluted. (and
I'm talking about proper flowing designs, now pixel-based, fixed-width
ones. Those are fairly easy in both HTML and GUI toolkits).
It does not feel convoluted to me but I have learned HTML/CSS gradually
as they evolved. Therefore I might not be able to properly see how it
looks from the distance if someone doesn't know the details. To me it
looks well structured (block vs. inline elements, different distinct
layout models, typography, etc.). There sure a some parts that deserve a
little cleanup and simplification but I can't think of any right now.
I'm just curious about your point of view. What parts of CSS look
convoluted to you?
The layout rules. I don't remember the details, because again I've
forgotten the rules and most of what I learned then. There is only issue
I can remember on the top of my head:
* If you have two nested divs, and the inner div has a position value
other than "fixed", it is not true that the inner div is visually
contained on the other div! That makes no sense to me. You have to add
some properties to the outer div (such as overflow:hidden) to make it
so, but it usually these properties have side-effects that are adverse
to other aspects of the layout.
I think you are confusing two things. The "position" property does not
influence how large an element is (it contains all it's normal content).
The value "static" is the default value and does nothing at all (the box
is not positioned, that's what you probably meant with "fixed").
"absolute" lets you position the box at arbitrary coordinates but also
takes it "out of the flow". That is all elements after it ignore
absolute positioned boxes. This effectively allows you to layer stuff
like you want. There are some more values ("relative" and "fixed") but
this isn't a CSS lesson.
The behavior you describe is a "problem" of the float layout model. If
you float an element left or right it is taken out of the normal
document flow but all following content flows around it. This was
defined for pictures or figure in texts. You can then use the "clear"
property on the next paragraph to stop it from flowing around the picture.
Since early CSS had no proper layout model for multiple variable height
columns (like tables are by definition) man people used the float layout
model to "emulate" multiple columns. The problem with this is that the
floated columns are taken out of the normal document flow. Therefore the
parent element does not contain them and usually collapses to zero
height. To avoid this you can either add a clearer after the columns or
use the "overflow" trick (any value other than "visible" will do) which
will make the parent box containing all it's floated child elements.
This works in IE 6 and does not need an extra element. Therefore it's
the most used technique now. But all this does not change the fact that
using floats for column layouts is still nothing else than a workaround
for the missing column layout model in the early days.
For many page layouts this actually isn't needed but especially people
used to use tables for layouts often try to use this technique because
it mimics tables more or less. With CSS tables you don't have to use
floats any more since you have all the power of tables in CSS now (with
less markup in most cases). These however only work with IE 8 or newer
(I'm not sure if not already in IE 7) and I don't know about FF 2. If
you have to make pages that work in IE 6 and 7 you still have to use
floats though.
And what do you mean "use JavaScript for layout"? You can't use
JavaScript for layout. You can use JavaScript to programmatically
manipulate the CSS
Re: New home page
On 13.10.2010 22:39, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 13/10/2010 17:42, Stephan Soller wrote:
On 13.10.2010 14:30, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 10/10/2010 15:23, Stephan Soller wrote:
On 07.10.2010 11:41, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 06/10/2010 15:25, Stephan Soller wrote:
On 06.10.2010 02:08, Arlo White wrote:
That's because HTML/CSS is a pretty terrible language for anything
beyond simple layouts. It shares more with Word/PDF/PostScript in
terms
of its purpose and history than it does with real gui layout engines
(GTK, QT, etc).
HTML/CSS is primary made for documents not applications. If you want
you
can simply make every element a block level element and use
JavaScript
for layout. I don't know GTK and QT in depth but then you should have
about the same level of possibilities as with these layout
engines. It
wouldn't surprise me if GUI frameworks like jQuery UI actually do
this.
The issue is not with level of possibilites. HTML/CSS has as much
possibilities as many GUI toolkits, if not more. (there is really a
lot
of stuff you can do you HTML/CSS if you figure out how to). The
issue is
that it's incredibly hard to do that, HTML/CSS is so convoluted. (and
I'm talking about proper flowing designs, now pixel-based, fixed-width
ones. Those are fairly easy in both HTML and GUI toolkits).
It does not feel convoluted to me but I have learned HTML/CSS gradually
as they evolved. Therefore I might not be able to properly see how it
looks from the distance if someone doesn't know the details. To me it
looks well structured (block vs. inline elements, different distinct
layout models, typography, etc.). There sure a some parts that
deserve a
little cleanup and simplification but I can't think of any right now.
I'm just curious about your point of view. What parts of CSS look
convoluted to you?
The layout rules. I don't remember the details, because again I've
forgotten the rules and most of what I learned then. There is only issue
I can remember on the top of my head:
* If you have two nested divs, and the inner div has a position value
other than "fixed", it is not true that the inner div is visually
contained on the other div! That makes no sense to me. You have to add
some properties to the outer div (such as overflow:hidden) to make it
so, but it usually these properties have side-effects that are adverse
to other aspects of the layout.
I think you are confusing two things. The "position" property does not
influence how large an element is (it contains all it's normal content).
The value "static" is the default value and does nothing at all (the box
is not positioned, that's what you probably meant with "fixed").
"absolute" lets you position the box at arbitrary coordinates but also
takes it "out of the flow". That is all elements after it ignore
absolute positioned boxes. This effectively allows you to layer stuff
like you want. There are some more values ("relative" and "fixed") but
this isn't a CSS lesson.
There is no confusion, I know "the "position" property does not
influence how large an element is". I don't care how big or small the
inner div is, I just want it to be contained in the parent div. I just
mentioned the 'position' property because if position is 'fixed', it
does make sense for that div not to be considered as contained in the
parent div. But not so for other values of position (at least for the
default one).
Sorry, look like I got confused then. :)
I'm still not sure if I understand your point correctly. Do you mean
that it's inconsistent that some positioning models take the element out
of the document flow?
The behavior you describe is a "problem" of the float layout model. If
you float an element left or right it is taken out of the normal
document flow but all following content flows around it. This was
defined for pictures or figure in texts. You can then use the "clear"
property on the next paragraph to stop it from flowing around the
picture.
Since early CSS had no proper layout model for multiple variable height
columns (like tables are by definition) man people used the float layout
model to "emulate" multiple columns. The problem with this is that the
floated columns are taken out of the normal document flow. Therefore the
parent element does not contain them and usually collapses to zero
height. To avoid this you can either add a clearer after the columns or
use the "overflow" trick (any value other than "visible" will do) which
will make the parent box containing all it's floated child elements.
This works in IE 6 and does not need an extra element. Therefore it's
the most used technique now.
Yes, I forgot to mention in my example that the problem happens when
float is used in the inner div. Thanks f
Re: New home page
On 14.10.2010 13:03, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 14/10/2010 09:09, Stephan Soller wrote: There is no confusion, I know "the "position" property does not influence how large an element is". I don't care how big or small the inner div is, I just want it to be contained in the parent div. I just mentioned the 'position' property because if position is 'fixed', it does make sense for that div not to be considered as contained in the parent div. But not so for other values of position (at least for the default one). Sorry, look like I got confused then. :) I'm still not sure if I understand your point correctly. Do you mean that it's inconsistent that some positioning models take the element out of the document flow? Not exactly. My problem is that when an element is taken out of the flow (such as with "float:left"), it means the element no longer needs to be contained in the parent div. I think that model is very unhelpful. Although I'm no expert in HTML coding, I would venture that in at least 90% of the cases that's what you want (for the element to be contained in the parent, if its position is not 'fixed'). Otherwise this brings up several problems: it messes up the layout of the elements right after the parent div. Or it messes up the area for the background/border colors of the parent div. However if a clearer div works without additional problems, I'm probably happy with that, even if its more verbose. In the context of using floats for multi column layout I agree with you. It just doesn't make sense for the parent element to not contain any floating child elements. I looked in the CSS 2.1 spec to figure out why they defined it this way and the third example in the [section about floats][1] makes it pretty clear. Basically if you float an image in a paragraph you want the next paragraph to float around it, too. If you don't want it set the "clear" property of the next element (e.g. headlines). Therefore the "cross border of parent box" default is a good choice in such situations. When using floats for layout I would rather like the default to be that floats are contained in their parent boxes. But that is not what floats were made for so the decision is ok IMHO. [1]: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#floats But all this does not change the fact that using floats for column layouts is still nothing else than a workaround for the missing column layout model in the early days. For many page layouts this actually isn't needed but especially people used to use tables for layouts often try to use this technique because it mimics tables more or less. With CSS tables you don't have to use floats any more since you have all the power of tables in CSS now (with less markup in most cases). These however only work with IE 8 or newer (I'm not sure if not already in IE 7) and I don't know about FF 2. If you have to make pages that work in IE 6 and 7 you still have to use floats though. Well I would say some sort of "column layout model" (if understood your term correctly) is pretty essential. You need something like that, or something that can do the same job nearly as easily. So are you saying its ok to use CSS tables now? (disregarding the issue with old browsers) Because when I first learned about CSS and div layouts, the mantra was "tables are evil, don't use tables". I also heard/read that a lot when learning CSS. Using table _elements_ for layout is bad stuff since the table element in HTML indicates tabular data. If you use it for layout the abstract content (or data) of the page gets totally screwed up just for it to look right. However the layout rules of tables are quite useful and so they found their way into CSS. If you can properly separate data from presentation you can use whatever layout rules you want. ;) Basically don't use table _data_ to push elements around in HTML. Using table layout rules in CSS is ok since it does not interfere with the data of the page. Ok, so it is as I thought, is is still "wrong"/unrecommended to use tables for layout. The recommended way to do column layouts is still with divs, right? By "column layouts" I don't mean tables, but stuff like a sidebar of any kind (the typical two or tree column layout). Yes, in HTML4 and XHTML 1 you would use div elements for each "column". I actually don't like that very much because it usually ends with a lot of div elements that don't add any useful information to the document. It's still better than tables though because table elements have a meaning that isn't met. But that's a problem of these two HTML versions (they lack structural block level elements). HTML5 adds more meaningful elements for that purpose (section, aside, header, footer, …) but that's a different story. Happy programming Stephan
Re: New web newsreader - requesting participation
Nice newsreader! Fast and does what it needs to do, and written in D. I like that. :) I'm currently writing an NNTP web frontend (reading and posting) for my university. However it's written in PHP so it's not really fitting for a new D homepage. But I'm curious how you do web programming with D. Do you use CGI? How do you do all the HTTP stuff (parsing form data, etc.) and templating? But back to the NNTP reader: # HTML formating The work you put into formating messages as HTML is impressive. The autodetection of source code could really come in handy. I found [Markdown][1] to work relatively well with common Mails so the syntax might contain a few good ideas for e.g. quotes, links, lists, etc. [1]: http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax # Topic list Right now you display the newest few messages on the newsgroup. Building a topic list gets quite a bit more complex. To get a proper topic list with pagination etc. I query the overview information of all (!) messages in a newsgroup with the "over" command (the digitalmars.com server supports the older "xover" which is the same). This contains the message ID and the references header which can be used to built a message tree. All messages on the root level of the tree are topics and it's easy to get the number of replies and the latest reply. It a bit tricky sometimes but all other algorithms I came up with tend to lose some messages (e.g. of the topic post is deleted) or were even slower. The overview also contains the subject and from header and some other useful stuff. I suppose the current newsreader does something similar without caching and this might be the reason why it is so slow. This message tree and the overview information however can be cached very easily. The tree can also be extended on the fly, e.g. check for new messages with the newnews command and add them to the tree. This might require some locking but at least in PHP flock() was sufficient for that. # Cache invalidation The problem with the message tree cache or cached messages in general is the invalidation. Looks like the digitalmars news server does not delete that much messages so this might not be much of a problem. How do you handle this right now? # D website I took a look at your current version of the D website (http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/). I really like the layout. Looks good to get started with D. Just two small things: - The compile and run button is a bit of a security risk. I was able to read the /etc/passwd file for example. Maybe it's possible to lock down the compiled binaries with SELinux. Denial of service attacks (e.g. endless loops) might still be a problem though. We built an "online D compiler" for a presentation at our university but didn't published it because of these concerns. - If you only display mails in the announcements which do not have a "References" header you will only get mails that started a new topic. This will filter out replies. If you want some help I could do some stuff. I'm a bit short on time right now but since I'm building a NNTP reader in PHP anyway I might be able to help out with your D NNTP reader. I can also help with HTML and CSS stuff if you want. Support for older browsers and older IE versions if there is much traffic with these browsers or some minor design stuff (I'm not that much of a designer though). I might also start to look into SELinux… Happy programming Stephan Soller On 31.01.2011 04:08, Adam Ruppe wrote: In the other newsgroup, I've been talking about a little web news program I've been writing as a spinoff of the potential new homepage idea. It's to the point where it is usuable, but still kinda buggy: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/nntp/thread-index? newsgroup=digitalmars.D Source code: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/nntp.d NOTE: it does /not/ automatically check for new posts. I have to manually trigger that right now (I don't want it annoying the news server automatically while still in the testing phase.) It will lazily load a message on demand though if you know it's message ID: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/nntp/get-message Get it from the Message-ID header in the post. Anyway, here's the features: a) It isn't god awful slow. The PHP web news currently on digital mars, as best as I can tell, actually polls the news server every time you go to it's index! This does aggressive local caching. b) It actually lets you select text... OK, if I list every annoyance with the current web news, I'll never stop. Moving on to new things: c) It tries to convert news posts to HTML, so the paragraphs wrap to the browser, links work, quotes are put into the proper tags for indentation, and it tries to auto-detect D code and put it in a block - which my javascript can make inline editable and
Re: New web newsreader - requesting participation
Quite some impressive stuff. Actually I'm somewhat blown away. Looks like I'm going to try GCI with D in the near future. :) The compile & run functionality looks very solid. Sorry for assuming bad security. setrlimit, extra VM, internal and external firewalls… looks like it's as solid as it can get. Happy programming Stephan On 31.01.2011 18:03, Adam Ruppe wrote: Stephan Soller wrote: Cache invalidation How do you handle this right now? I don't. My program assumes that once it has a message, it never needs to look to the server for it again. (This is probably because of my own experience with mailing lists - I use the mailing list interface to the newsgroup for reading. With them, once the email is sent, it isn't going to change. I just assumed the newsgroup worked the same way...) D website I really like the layout. The credit for that goes to Christopher Bergqvist. See the thread "Suggestion: New D front page" in the main newsgroup. He posted a png outlining his idea and I just ran with it :) The compile and run button is a bit of a security risk. I was able to read the /etc/passwd file for example. Yeah, but that's normal on a multi user linux system. It doesn't really break anything. But, I moved the compile and run program to a separate VM to further limit it. If you read that entire filesystem, it doesn't really matter - it's an out of the box Slackware install. There's nothing sensitive or private on it at all. (Like it's domain name says, it is completely expendable info!) Denial of service attacks (e.g. endless loops) might still be a problem though. I think this is solved with my use of setrlimit. If a process eats more than 5 seconds of CPU time, the operating system kills it. The limits are also set to 16 MB of RAM, 16 kb files, 3 forks, and a bunch of other things. (This might be interesting to test some programs - it will actually get out of memory exceptions pretty easily!) Write access is also limited to a single directory, in addition to that individual size limit. Filling up the disk shouldn't be possible. The operating system firewall prevents most network activity, incoming and outgoing. You can play with sockets, but only if they are working with localhost, and even then, they aren't allowed to access the ssh port. Running a spam bot off it is impossible. More than this, the VM is also limited. I set its memory and CPU limits to about 1/5 the resources of the physical server. So if you did manage to get root and max out your program, it won't have a significant impact on the other things running with it (all low traffic websites). An external firewall serves as layer 2 to protect against spambots. Finally, I did a VM snapshot after setting it up. I'm considering running a scheduled script on my computer to blank and reset that VM every night. Then, if you got root and worked around my other restrictions, it'd be a temporary victory anyway, just until I revert the snapshot again. All in all, I think I have a pretty safe setup. If I'm proven wrong, plan B is to use the ideone API instead. If you only display mails in the announcements which do not have a "References" header you will only get mails that started a new topic. This will filter out replies. Yes, that's what I wanted. The idea is to show a feed of new things coming out, rather than new replies on old ideas. This way, the homepage shows the most variety. Happy programming Thanks! If I have any questions, I'll be sure to ask. I've gotta get back to my real work soon though (stupid Monday) so finishing this will probably have to wait until next weekend.
Hamburg meets D
Hello fellow Dlers, thanks to last years DConf some German D developers agreed to meet for drinks in Hamburg. With this years DConf approaching we decided (finally) on an informal get together, just beer and talking on March 29th in Hamburg. Since I am not expecting a huge run (afterall there are not many D devs in Hamburg AFAIK) I am going to host it at our companies offices at InnoGames. I am happily accepting more people, so please, if you plan on coming drop me a line here and or email me at: dilly dot stephan at gmail dot com. Currently participating: * Sönke Ludwig (+ colleague) * Martin Tschierschke * some colleagues in my team that I will convince to join ^^ * me Cheers, Stephan
Re: LDC 1.8.0
On Sunday, 4 March 2018 at 22:37:21 UTC, kinke wrote: Hi everyone, on behalf of the LDC team, I'm glad to announce LDC 1.8. The highlights of this version in a nutshell: * Based on D 2.078.3. * New switch `-link-defaultlib-shared` to link against shared druntime/Phobos. * Plugins support, compatible with existing Clang plugins. * Support for LLVM IR-based PGO as alternative to existing (AST-based) PGO. * Basic support for LLVM XRay instrumentation. Full release log and downloads: https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/releases/tag/v1.8.0 Thanks to all contributors! Awesome! Thanks! When is it available on homebrew? Cheers, Stephan
Re: Hamburg meets D
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018 at 01:46:26 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Monday, 5 March 2018 at 19:40:12 UTC, Stephan wrote: Hello fellow Dlers, thanks to last years DConf some German D developers agreed to meet for drinks in Hamburg. What time? TL;DR 6 pm! Sorry for the late reply. Since I will be in the office anyway, I am free from 6pm on. I just need the names upfront so I can tell them to our entrance peeps, to allow them in. So please email me. Cheers, Stephan
Re: Hamburg meets D
On Wednesday, 4 April 2018 at 20:57:13 UTC, Stefan wrote: On Monday, 5 March 2018 at 19:40:12 UTC, Stephan wrote: Hello fellow Dlers, thanks to last years DConf some German D developers agreed to meet for drinks in Hamburg. congratz! how was it? hope a next meetup is already planned. It was great! I wanna thank everyone coming, we had great discussions, pizza and a little vibe.d feature actually arose out of it! And we were 5 people actually :) I guess after dconf we will start planning the next date. ~Stephan
Re: Netflix opensources its first D library: Vectorflow
On 2017-08-02 21:31:19 +, Walter Bright said: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6r6dwp/netflix_opensources_its_first_d_library_vectorflow/ D got another mention in Netflix's popular tech blog: https://medium.com/netflix-techblog/machine-learning-platform-meetup-ddec090f3c17 (+meetup slides) --Stephan
