Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Cecil Ward via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 23:15:47 UTC, Cecil Ward wrote:

On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 23:14:14 UTC, Cecil Ward wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:21:13 UTC, Tim Hsu wrote:

[...]


U


or even 'I' will be delighted to take a look.


Also link time optimisation and whole program optimisation might 
be your friends if you are having problems because module 
boundaries mean that the compiler cannot expand the source code 
of the constructor implementation to inline it and fully optimise 
it away to nothing.


You certainly should have no problems if the code that uses the 
struct can see the struct definition's actual source text 
directly.

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Cecil Ward via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 23:14:14 UTC, Cecil Ward wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:21:13 UTC, Tim Hsu wrote:

[...]


U


or even 'I' will be delighted to take a look.

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Cecil Ward via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:21:13 UTC, Tim Hsu wrote:
I am creating Vector3 structure. I use struct to avoid GC. 
However, struct will be copied when passed as parameter to 
function



struct Ray {
Vector3f origin;
Vector3f dir;

@nogc @system
this(Vector3f *origin, Vector3f *dir) {
this.origin = *origin;
this.dir = *dir;
}
}

How can I pass struct more efficiently?


This isn't a question for you. it's a question for the compiler, 
let the compiler do its thing. Stick in a -O3 if you are using 
GCC or LDC and build in release more not debug mode. Make sure 
that the compiler can see the source code of the implementation 
of the constructor wherever it is used and it should just be 
inclined away to nonexistence. Your constructor should not even 
exist, if it is then you are looking at a false picture or a 
mistake where optimisation has been turned off for the sake of 
easy source-level debugging.


Post up the assembler language output for a routine where this 
code is used in some critical situation, and then we can help 
make sure that the code _generation_ is optimal.


I reiterate, unless something is badly wrong or you are seeing a 
red herring, no 'call' to the constructor code should even exist 
in the cases where it is actually 'called'. You may well see a 
useless copy of the constructor code because the compilers seem 
to generate such even though it is never called ans so is a waste 
of space. The compiler will analyse the constructor's 
instructions and just copy-and-paste them as assignment 
statements with that then getting thoroughly optimised down into 
something which may just be a memory write or a register-register 
copy that costs zero.


If you post up snippets of generated asm then U will be delighted 
to take a look.

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Marco Leise via Digitalmars-d-learn]

Am Wed, 3 Jan 2018 10:57:13 -0800
schrieb Ali Çehreli :

> On 01/03/2018 10:40 AM, Patrick Schluter wrote:
>  > On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 23:27:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:  
>  >>
>  >> When it comes to optimization, there are 3 rules: profile, profile,
>  >> profile.  I used to heavily hand-"optimize" my code a lot (I come from
>  >> a strong C/C++ background -- premature optimization seems to be a
>  >> common malady among us in that crowd).  
>  >
>  > That's why I always tell that C++ is premature optimization oriented
>  > programming, aka as POOP.  
> 
> […]
>
> That's why I like producer functions that return values:
> 
> vector makeInts(some param) {
>  // ...
> }
> 
> And if they can be 'pure', D allows them to be used to initialize 
> immutable variables as well. Pretty cool! :)
> 
> Ali

May I add, this is also optimal performance-wise. The result
variable will be allocated on the caller stack and the
callee writes directly to it. So even POOPs like me, do it.

-- 
Marco

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On 2018-01-03 08:02, Tim Hsu wrote:

 It needs some experiment.


This is the correct answer. Never assume anything about performance 
before having tested it.


--
/Jacob Carlborg

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On 01/03/2018 10:40 AM, Patrick Schluter wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 23:27:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>>
>> When it comes to optimization, there are 3 rules: profile, profile,
>> profile.  I used to heavily hand-"optimize" my code a lot (I come from
>> a strong C/C++ background -- premature optimization seems to be a
>> common malady among us in that crowd).
>
> That's why I always tell that C++ is premature optimization oriented
> programming, aka as POOP.

In my earlier C++ days I've embarrassed myself by insisting that strings 
should be passed by reference for performance reasons. (No, I had not 
profiled.) Then I learned more and always returned vectors (and maps) by 
value from producer functions:


vector makeInts(some param) {
// ...
}

That's how it should be! :)

I used the same function when interviewing candidates (apologies to all; 
I don't remember good things about my interviewing other people; I hope 
I will never interview people like that anymore). They would invariably 
write a function something like this:


void makeInts(vector & result, some param) {
// ...
}

And that's wrong because there are the big questions of what do you 
require or do with the reference parameter 'result'? Would you clear it 
first? If not, shouldn't the function be named appendInts? If you 
cleared it upfront, would you still be happy if an exception was thrown 
inside the function, etc.


That's why I like producer functions that return values:

vector makeInts(some param) {
// ...
}

And if they can be 'pure', D allows them to be used to initialize 
immutable variables as well. Pretty cool! :)


Ali

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Patrick Schluter via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 23:27:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:


When it comes to optimization, there are 3 rules: profile, 
profile, profile.  I used to heavily hand-"optimize" my code a 
lot (I come from a strong C/C++ background -- premature 
optimization seems to be a common malady among us in that 
crowd).


That's why I always tell that C++ is premature optimization 
oriented programming, aka as POOP.

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 07:02:28AM +, Tim Hsu via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 22:49:20 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 22:17:14 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:
> > > Pass the Vector3f by value.
> > 
> > This is very frequently the correct answer to these questions! Never
> > assume ref is faster if speed matters - it may not be.
> 
> However speed really matters for me.

That's why you need to use a profiler to find out where the hotspots
are. It may not be where you think it is.


> I am writing a path tracing program.  Ray will be constructed million
> of times during computation.  And will be passed to functions to test
> intersection billion of times.  After Reading comments here, it seems
> ray will be passed by value to the intersection testing function. I am
> not sure if ray is small enough to be passed by value. It needs some
> experiment.

With modern CPUs with advanced caching, it may not always be obvious
whether passing by value or passing by reference is better.  Always use
a profiler to be sure.


T

-- 
If blunt statements had a point, they wouldn't be blunt...

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Tim Hsu via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 22:49:20 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 22:17:14 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:

Pass the Vector3f by value.


This is very frequently the correct answer to these questions! 
Never assume ref is faster if speed matters - it may not be.


However speed really matters for me. I am writing a path tracing 
program. Ray will be constructed million of times during 
computation. And will be passed to functions to test intersection 
billion of times. After Reading comments here, it seems ray will 
be passed by value to the intersection testing function. I am not 
sure if ray is small enough to be passed by value. It needs some 
experiment.

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 10:17:14PM +, Johan Engelen via Digitalmars-d-learn 
wrote:
[...]
> Passing by pointer (ref is the same) has large downsides and is
> certainly not always fastest. For small structs and if copying is not
> semantically wrong, just pass by value.

+1.


> More important: measure what bottlenecks your program has and optimize
> there.
[...]

It cannot be said often enough: premature optimization is the root of
all evils.  It makes your code less readable, less maintainable, more
bug-prone, and makes you spend far too much time and energy fiddling
with details that ultimately may not even matter, and worst of all, it
may not even be a performance win in the end, e.g., if you end up with
CPU cache misses / excessive RAM roundtrips because of too much
indirection, where you could have passed the entire struct in registers.

When it comes to optimization, there are 3 rules: profile, profile,
profile.  I used to heavily hand-"optimize" my code a lot (I come from a
strong C/C++ background -- premature optimization seems to be a common
malady among us in that crowd).  Then I started using a profiler, and I
suddenly had that sinking realization that all those countless hours of
tweaking my code to be "optimal" were wasted, because the *real*
bottleneck was somewhere else completely.  From many such experiences,
I've learned that (1) the real bottleneck is rarely where you predict it
to be, and (2) most real bottlenecks can be fixed with very simple
changes (sometimes even a 1-line change) with very big speed gains,
whereas (3) fixing supposed "inefficiencies" that aren't founded on real
evidence (i.e., using a profiler) usually cost many hours of time, add
tons of complexity, and rarely give you more than 1-2% speedups (and
sometimes can actually make your code perform *worse*: your code can
become so complicated the compiler's optimizer is unable to generate
optimal code for it).


T

-- 
MSDOS = MicroSoft's Denial Of Service

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, January 02, 2018 22:49:20 Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d-learn 
wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 22:17:14 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:
> > Pass the Vector3f by value.
>
> This is very frequently the correct answer to these questions!
> Never assume ref is faster if speed matters - it may not be.

It also makes for much cleaner code if you pretty much always pass by value
and then only start dealing with ref or auto ref when you know that you need
it - especially if you're going to need to manually overload the function on
refness.

But for better or worse, a lot of this sort of thing ultimately depends on
what the optimizer does to a particular piece of code, and that's far from
easy to predict given everything that an optimizer can do these days -
especially if you're using ldc rather than dmd.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Johan Engelen via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:21:13 UTC, Tim Hsu wrote:
I am creating Vector3 structure. I use struct to avoid GC. 
However, struct will be copied when passed as parameter to 
function



struct Ray {
Vector3f origin;
Vector3f dir;

@nogc @system
this(Vector3f *origin, Vector3f *dir) {
this.origin = *origin;
this.dir = *dir;
}
}

How can I pass struct more efficiently?


Pass the Vector3f by value.

There is not one best solution here: it depends on what you are 
doing with the struct, and how large the struct is. It depends on 
whether the function will be inlined. It depends on the CPU. And 
probably 10 other things.
Vector3f is a small struct (I'm guessing it's 3 floats?), pass it 
by value and it will be passed in registers. This "copy" costs 
nothing on x86, the CPU will have to load the floats from memory 
and store them in a register anyway, before it can write it to 
the target Vector3f, regardless of how you pass the Vector3f.


You can play with some code here: https://godbolt.org/g/w56jmA

Passing by pointer (ref is the same) has large downsides and is 
certainly not always fastest. For small structs and if copying is 
not semantically wrong, just pass by value.
More important: measure what bottlenecks your program has and 
optimize there.


- Johan

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, January 02, 2018 19:27:50 Igor Shirkalin via Digitalmars-d-learn 
wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:45:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis
>
> wrote:
> > [...]
>
> Smart optimizer should think for you without any "auto" private
> words if function is inlined. I mean LDC compiler first of all.

A smart optimizer may very well optimize out a number of copies. The fact
that D requires that structs be moveable opens up all kinds of optimization
opportunities - even more so when stuff gets inlined. However, if you want
to guarantee that unnecessary copies aren't happening, you have to ensure
that ref gets used with lvalues and does not get used with rvalues, and that
tends to mean either using auto ref or overloading functions on ref.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Igor Shirkalin via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:45:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:

[...]


Smart optimizer should think for you without any "auto" private 
words if function is inlined. I mean LDC compiler first of all.

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Seb via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 at 18:21:13 UTC, Tim Hsu wrote:
I am creating Vector3 structure. I use struct to avoid GC. 
However, struct will be copied when passed as parameter to 
function



struct Ray {
Vector3f origin;
Vector3f dir;

@nogc @system
this(Vector3f *origin, Vector3f *dir) {
this.origin = *origin;
this.dir = *dir;
}
}

How can I pass struct more efficiently?



If you want the compiler to ensure that a struct doesn't get 
copied, you can disable its postblit:


 @disable this(this);

Now, there are a couple of goodies in std.typecons like 
RefCounted or Unique that allow you to pass struct around without 
needing to worry about memory allocation:


https://dlang.org/phobos/std_typecons.html#RefCounted
https://dlang.org/phobos/std_typecons.html#Unique

Example: https://run.dlang.io/is/3rbqpn

Of course, you can always roll your own allocator:

https://run.dlang.io/is/uNmn0d

Re: Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Tuesday, January 02, 2018 18:21:13 Tim Hsu via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
> I am creating Vector3 structure. I use struct to avoid GC.
> However, struct will be copied when passed as parameter to
> function
>
>
> struct Ray {
>  Vector3f origin;
>  Vector3f dir;
>
>  @nogc @system
>  this(Vector3f *origin, Vector3f *dir) {
>  this.origin = *origin;
>  this.dir = *dir;
>  }
> }
>
> How can I pass struct more efficiently?

When passing a struct to a funtion, if the argument is an rvalue, it will be
moved rather than copied, but if it's an lvalue, it will be copied. If the
parameter is marked with ref, then the lvalue will be passed by reference
and not copied, but rvalues will not be accepted (and unlike with C++,
tacking on const doesn't affect that). Alternatively, if the function is
templated (and you can add empty parens to templatize a function if you want
to), then an auto ref parameter will result in different template
instantiations depending on whether the argument is an lvalue or rvalue. If
it's an lvalue, then the template will be instantiated with that parameter
as ref, so the argument will be passed by ref and no copy will be made,
whereas if it's an rvalue, then the parameter will end up without having
ref, so the argument will be moved. If the function isn't templated and
can't be templated (e.g. if its a member function of a class and you want it
to be virtual), then you'd need to overload the function with overloads that
have ref and don't have ref in order to get the same effect (though the
non-ref overload can simply forward to the ref overload). That does get a
bit tedious though if you have several parameters.

If you want to guarantee that no copy will ever be made, then you will have
to either use ref or a pointer, which could get annoying with rvalues (since
you'd have to assign them to a variable) and could actually result in more
copies, because it would restrict the compiler's abilities to use moves
instead of copies.

In general, the best way is likely going to be to use auto ref where
possible and overload functions where not. Occasionally, there is talk of
adding something similar to C++'s const& to D, but Andrei does not want to
add rvalue references to the language, and D's const is restrictive enough
that requiring const to avoid the copy would arguably be overly restrictive.
It may be that someone will eventually propose a feature with semantics that
Andrei will accept that acts similarly to const&, but it has yet to happen.
auto ref works for a lot of cases though, and D's ability to do moves
without a move constructor definitely reduces the number of unnecessary
copies.

See also:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35120474/does-d-have-a-move-constructor

- Jonathan M Davis

Efficient way to pass struct as parameter

[Tim Hsu via Digitalmars-d-learn]

I am creating Vector3 structure. I use struct to avoid GC. 
However, struct will be copied when passed as parameter to 
function



struct Ray {
Vector3f origin;
Vector3f dir;

@nogc @system
this(Vector3f *origin, Vector3f *dir) {
this.origin = *origin;
this.dir = *dir;
}
}

How can I pass struct more efficiently?