[digitalradio] Re: Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
Hello Leigh, Guess it depends on the operator, but do not think time is an issue if the end result is worth itin the EME and MS world, an HF JT65A contact speeds along, usually. Not to mention endless time some spend in a pile-up, waiting for a net to come around to one or listening to white noise for a vhf opening on a "dead" band. 73, Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually, my point is just the opposite. There is delay, but I don't > think it accumulates. > > JT65a on HF shows me 2 things: > 1. Hams will spend a minute per over to get a contact when the band is > "dead" > 2. Timed TX start is possible and gives a great value > > One of the problems of digital speech is the S/N figures requires, but > if we relax the real time requirement, we can get by with a worse > ratio. Couple this with the repeater idea, and you get a real > advantage. > > So, let's say you can (just to pic a random number) send 10 seconds of > spech in 30 seconds. So you TX for 30 seconds, starting on the :00 > minute boundary. Then you RX for 10 seconds to the higher-power > repeater to get (close to) realtime audio. That leaves the other end of > you QSO 20 seconds to think and talk 10 seconds worth before :00 comes > around and he or she starts to TX. > > This isn't like PTT for the AOR DV system, but it wouldn't require new > hardware designs, just soundcard software. It would have a similar > feeling to the JT65a system, which we know people are willing to > experiment with. And, it doen't accumulate delay. > > Leigh/WA5ZNU
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Flushing buffer ?
jhaynesatalumni wrote: >> If there is text left to be transmitted, the program will send all >> except the last word, no matter how long or short the message may be, >> until I hit "Enter" again. > > I imagine this is intentional on the part of the programmer - you have > to hit enter or maybe space after the last word. That's how it knows > whether you are finished transmitting for a while or whether you have > just paused to think or catch up. Make sure you are not in "word" mode. If you are it will not transmit the last word until it sees a space or an directive. Philip
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
Actually, my point is just the opposite. There is delay, but I don't think it accumulates. JT65a on HF shows me 2 things: 1. Hams will spend a minute per over to get a contact when the band is "dead" 2. Timed TX start is possible and gives a great value One of the problems of digital speech is the S/N figures requires, but if we relax the real time requirement, we can get by with a worse ratio. Couple this with the repeater idea, and you get a real advantage. So, let's say you can (just to pic a random number) send 10 seconds of spech in 30 seconds. So you TX for 30 seconds, starting on the :00 minute boundary. Then you RX for 10 seconds to the higher-power repeater to get (close to) realtime audio. That leaves the other end of you QSO 20 seconds to think and talk 10 seconds worth before :00 comes around and he or she starts to TX. This isn't like PTT for the AOR DV system, but it wouldn't require new hardware designs, just soundcard software. It would have a similar feeling to the JT65a system, which we know people are willing to experiment with. And, it doen't accumulate delay. Leigh/WA5ZNU On Mon, 14 May 2007 9:32 am, W2XJ wrote: > The problem is that if this is a store and forward repeater you will > accumulate too much time delay. > > > Leigh L Klotz, Jr. wrote: >> Here is a related idea: We have seen with JT65a that sometimes when we >> think the band is closed, it is just very poor instead. W1AW, which >> one >> can sometimes hear all lone on the high bands (due to its power and >> antennas) shows us this as well. I..e., what we assume is no >> communications may in fact be just very noisy. >> >> Shannon tells us there is no limit to the S/N we can tolerate if we >> reduce the data rate. >> >> So there may be a place as well for a repeater that receives >> lower-power >> stations slowly and retransmits them as higher power faster, even >> though >> it it couldn't then do the clever interleave that Bonnie proposes for >> other situations. >> >> This idea would be somewhat like VHF FM repeaters, as they use the >> limiting feature of FM to discriminate a noise-free low-power signal >> and >> then retransmit. Instead, it would decode a low baud rate, ECC'd >> signal >> to obtain a noiseless signal to re-encode and retransmit. >> >> Leigh/WA5ZNU >> On Mon, 14 May 2007 3:22 am, bruce mallon wrote: >> >>> Then DO IT and let the FCC rule . >>> >>> Just remember for your long distance digipeaters to >>> work the band must be open . >>> unless your going to use ECHOLINK and if so whats the >>> point ? >>> >>> >>> --- expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> Like many kinds of interesting digital communications, it seems that this sort of digital repeater falls into the gray area of FCC rules. The "retransmit" rules may preclude it. Welcome to Technology Jail. Nothing should stop an operator in another country from setting one up, it it could be used by US operators. Bonnie KQ6XA > This type of single channel HF digital voice repeater is perfectly OK > under USA's present FCC rules, and the rules of most other countries. > > Bonnie KQ6XA > > > > Digital Voice repeaters, using single-channel > > > near-real-time > > > interleaved multiplexed OFDM, could work in a 5kHz > > > bandwidth. > >>> >>> >>> >>> Pinpoint >>> customers who are looking for what you sell. >>> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ >>> >>> >>> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at >>> http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at > http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
[digitalradio] Re: Flushing buffer ?
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "w6lqr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If there is text left to be transmitted, the program will send all > except the last word, no matter how long or short the message may be, > until I hit "Enter" again. I imagine this is intentional on the part of the programmer - you have to hit enter or maybe space after the last word. That's how it knows whether you are finished transmitting for a while or whether you have just paused to think or catch up.
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
The problem is that if this is a store and forward repeater you will accumulate too much time delay. Leigh L Klotz, Jr. wrote: > Here is a related idea: We have seen with JT65a that sometimes when we > think the band is closed, it is just very poor instead. W1AW, which one > can sometimes hear all lone on the high bands (due to its power and > antennas) shows us this as well. I..e., what we assume is no > communications may in fact be just very noisy. > > Shannon tells us there is no limit to the S/N we can tolerate if we > reduce the data rate. > > So there may be a place as well for a repeater that receives lower-power > stations slowly and retransmits them as higher power faster, even though > it it couldn't then do the clever interleave that Bonnie proposes for > other situations. > > This idea would be somewhat like VHF FM repeaters, as they use the > limiting feature of FM to discriminate a noise-free low-power signal and > then retransmit. Instead, it would decode a low baud rate, ECC'd signal > to obtain a noiseless signal to re-encode and retransmit. > > Leigh/WA5ZNU > On Mon, 14 May 2007 3:22 am, bruce mallon wrote: > >>Then DO IT and let the FCC rule . >> >>Just remember for your long distance digipeaters to >>work the band must be open . >>unless your going to use ECHOLINK and if so whats the >>point ? >> >> >>--- expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> Like many kinds of interesting digital >>> communications, it seems that >>> this sort of digital repeater falls into the gray >>> area of FCC rules. >>> The "retransmit" rules may preclude it. Welcome to >>> Technology Jail. >>> Nothing should stop an operator in another country >>> from setting one >>> up, it it could be used by US operators. >>> >>> Bonnie KQ6XA >>> >>> >>> >>> > This type of single channel HF digital voice >>> repeater is perfectly OK >>> > under USA's present FCC rules, and the rules of >>> most other countries. >>> > >>> > Bonnie KQ6XA >>> > >>> > > > Digital Voice repeaters, using single-channel >>> > > > near-real-time >>> > > > interleaved multiplexed OFDM, could work in a >>> 5kHz >>> > > > bandwidth. >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>Pinpoint >> >>customers who are looking for what you sell. >>http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ >> >> >>Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at >>http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > >
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
Here is a related idea: We have seen with JT65a that sometimes when we think the band is closed, it is just very poor instead. W1AW, which one can sometimes hear all lone on the high bands (due to its power and antennas) shows us this as well. I..e., what we assume is no communications may in fact be just very noisy. Shannon tells us there is no limit to the S/N we can tolerate if we reduce the data rate. So there may be a place as well for a repeater that receives lower-power stations slowly and retransmits them as higher power faster, even though it it couldn't then do the clever interleave that Bonnie proposes for other situations. This idea would be somewhat like VHF FM repeaters, as they use the limiting feature of FM to discriminate a noise-free low-power signal and then retransmit. Instead, it would decode a low baud rate, ECC'd signal to obtain a noiseless signal to re-encode and retransmit. Leigh/WA5ZNU On Mon, 14 May 2007 3:22 am, bruce mallon wrote: > Then DO IT and let the FCC rule . > > Just remember for your long distance digipeaters to > work the band must be open . > unless your going to use ECHOLINK and if so whats the > point ? > > > --- expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Like many kinds of interesting digital >> communications, it seems that >> this sort of digital repeater falls into the gray >> area of FCC rules. >> The "retransmit" rules may preclude it. Welcome to >> Technology Jail. >> Nothing should stop an operator in another country >> from setting one >> up, it it could be used by US operators. >> >> Bonnie KQ6XA >> >> >> >> > This type of single channel HF digital voice >> repeater is perfectly OK >> > under USA's present FCC rules, and the rules of >> most other countries. >> > >> > Bonnie KQ6XA >> > >> > > > Digital Voice repeaters, using single-channel >> > > > near-real-time >> > > > interleaved multiplexed OFDM, could work in a >> 5kHz >> > > > bandwidth. >> > >> >> >> > > > > > Pinpoint > > customers who are looking for what you sell. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ > > > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at > http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
If we are talking about DIGITAL VOICE, I believe the answer is receiving the signal and demodulating it to the DIGITAL baseband stream, verifying the stream integrity, and then, if tit passes the integrity test, reshaping (regenerating the pulses) and remodulating. No decoding or converting to baseband other than to monitor the content, if any. Integrity check is important to avoid retransmitting garbage. Seems it is a task for a fairly powerful PC with a soundcard, at least a P III with 256 MB RAM and a decent audio card. There should be some sort of periodic beacon transmitted to allow precise tuning to the digital repeater input frequency. 73, Jose, CO2JA W2XJ wrote: > MFJ sells a MFJ-662 pocket repeater for $79.95. Basically it is a digital > store > and forward box that records up to 32 seconds of audio and then re transmits > it > once the receiver is squelched or after the 32 seconds. They claim it works > with > any rig including HTs and is legal in any band but that would mean some sort > of > PL or DTMF tones would be required to prevent the system from keying on > undesired signals. > > > > > Andrew O'Brien wrote: >> So, , how would one actually "repeat" a signal ? >> >> Andy __ V Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y Educación Energética. 22 al 25 de mayo de 2007 Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba http://www.cujae.edu.cu/eventos/cier Participe en Universidad 2008. 11 al 15 de febrero del 2008. Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba http://www.universidad2008.cu
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
MFJ sells a MFJ-662 pocket repeater for $79.95. Basically it is a digital store and forward box that records up to 32 seconds of audio and then re transmits it once the receiver is squelched or after the 32 seconds. They claim it works with any rig including HTs and is legal in any band but that would mean some sort of PL or DTMF tones would be required to prevent the system from keying on undesired signals. Andrew O'Brien wrote: > So, , how would one actually "repeat" a signal ? > > Andy >
[digitalradio] Data for SKCC, Logger32, Bozo Guide to JT65A.
K3UK Web site data for the month of April Total Hits 161917 Total Files 116370 Total Pages 55973 Total Visits4299 Total KBytes183371681 Total Unique Sites 8698 Total Unique URLs 169 Total Unique Referrers 535 Total Unique User Agents1131 . Avg Max Hits per Hour 224 1620 Hits per Day539724990 Files per Day 387920307 Pages per Day 186517597 Visits per Day 143 331 KBytes per Day 611238919631604 The Logger32 files are still the most sought files on my domain. The SKCC Helper page is currently number one in terms of hits. FYI, the Complete Bozo's Guide to HF JT65A received 2488 hots on my web site in April. 2488and 2100 "visits". Top 30 of 169 Total URLs # HitsKBytes URL 1 32998 20.38% 376504 0.21% /skccsked/skccsked.php 2 24086 14.88% 23668 0.01% /wor.xml 3 16712 10.32% 197012 0.11% /drsked/drsked.php 4 54503.37% 7141461238.95% /zipped/lgr32full330.zip 5 42102.60% 5097172827.80% /zipped/lgr32full320.zip 6 31701.96% 3138573617.12% /zipped/lgr32upgrade330.zip 7 24881.54% 89263 0.05% /bozoguidejt65a.htm 8 11390.70% 7676860 4.19% /zipped/lgr32upgrade320.zip K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
So, , how would one actually "repeat" a signal ? Andy
Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice Repeaters on HF
Then DO IT and let the FCC rule . Just remember for your long distance digipeaters to work the band must be open . unless your going to use ECHOLINK and if so whats the point ? --- expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Like many kinds of interesting digital > communications, it seems that > this sort of digital repeater falls into the gray > area of FCC rules. > The "retransmit" rules may preclude it. Welcome to > Technology Jail. > Nothing should stop an operator in another country > from setting one > up, it it could be used by US operators. > > Bonnie KQ6XA > > > > > This type of single channel HF digital voice > repeater is perfectly OK > > under USA's present FCC rules, and the rules of > most other countries. > > > > Bonnie KQ6XA > > > > > > Digital Voice repeaters, using single-channel > > > > near-real-time > > > > interleaved multiplexed OFDM, could work in a > 5kHz > > > > bandwidth. > > > > > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: RTTY Configurations
Thanks Vojtech, I'm getting a grip on this now, maybe an internal beta of my DM780 software with PSK / RTTY / Olivia by the end of May. It's working on receive now but needs refining. Simon Brown, HB9DRV - Original Message - From: "Vojtech Bubnik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I only allowed the HAM subtype of RTTY in PocketDigi mostly because of > my time lack to port everything. The other reason is to keep the UI > simple, which is probably the reason of your question. I asked the > same question about used submodes as you couple of months ago here at > this list.
