Re: [digitalradio] 1st THOR experience
Warren, we are using THOR 4 - 22 for pskmail ARQ in cases where the path is not good for PSK63 - 250. It is a fantastic weapon against multipath and QRN. Some of our servers now have RSID on, and the protocol timing was changed to incorporate ARQ for the THOR (and MFSK) modes. 73, Rein PA0R -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: WarrenM k5...@yahoo.com Gesendet: 04.10.09 00:34:18 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [digitalradio] 1st THOR experience Group, I had my 1st THOR4 contact the other day on 30meters. I did not know much about it. The QSO would not have happened if I had not RSID for receive turned on. I was a very interesting experience. It is very slow but the ops use cw short hand lingo to go faster. They seem to like it because it has FEC by default and is a narrow band mode about the same as CW. It is very good at very weak signals and a lot of noise. The program I use (Fldigi)has many speeds for THOR (4,5,8,11,16,22) so you can go faster if the band gets better. I think this mode is going to start to be a popular mode for weak signal work. The guy I qso'd with uses it to contact Europe at times like now during low sunspot activity. It is the only mode he uses for weak signal work because he cq near the psk ops where he can be seen and because it is not wide he does not bother anyone. I am going to CQDX this weekend and see if I can contact anyone in Europe. Have any of you guys had experienc with THOR? How do you compare it with DominoEX and Olivia? Warren - K5WGM Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Warren - How does THOR compare with DominoEX and Olivia?
Warren, I had my 1st THOR4 contact the other day on 30meters. It is very good at very weak signals and a lot of noise. How do you compare it with DominoEX and Olivia? Warren - K5WGM That's a good question and I took some time to run each mode through the HF path simulator. I tried to get the bandwidth / word-per-minute rates as close as possible for an apples-to-apples comparison. The wpm rates are approximate. Test #1 In this test, we determined the lowest signal-to-noise ratio possible for each mode (no HF path distortion) SNR @ 3KHz BW. THOR4 14 wpm 173Hz BW-14db SNR OLIVIA 2/125 12wpm 125Hz BW -15db SNR OLIVIA 8/25017wpm 250Hz BW -15db SNR DominoEX-4 27wpm* 173Hz BW-15db SIR *Slowest DominoEx mode 27wpm. In this test, all modes were tested with a moderate high-latitude (polar ionosphere) disturbance. The SNR was increased to -8bd; 7db above the minimum SNR. THOR4 NO COPY OLIVIA 1/125100% COPY OLIVIA 8/250100% COPY DominoEX-4 NO COPY Selective fade test - the type of slow and deep selective fading found on many paths. Same -8db SNR. THOR4 100% COPY OLIVIA 2/125 100% COPY OLIVIA 8/250100% COPY DominoEX-475% COPY Conclusion: The high-latitude simulation was too much for both THOR and Dominio-EX4 which is an indication that they would most likely have difficulty with moderately disturbed polar ionosphere. Both show an intolerance to frequency spreading fouund on these paths. In the selective fade test which emulates notch attenuation sweeping across the spectrum, THOR and OLIVIA did well while DominioEX-4 showed signs of failure indicating this might not be the best mode when selective fading is present. It seems to me that since all 4 modes have nearly the same sensitivity, it would be difficult to tell the difference between them on a stable HF channel. The DominoEX4 mode that did poorly on disturbed paths would be the better choice during quite conditions since it moves along at a much faster 27 wpm. It all depends on conditions at hand. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] RS ID with FLDIGI stops decode
While checking in to a regional NBEMS net today using both Multipsk and FLDIGI, I noticed FLDIGI in 8/500 Olivia would NOT decode at all if the RS ID box in the upper right-hand corner of FLDIGI was checked. It decoded fine when unchecked. -- Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] X band data qso 503 / 3585 KHZ ??
X band data qso ? Running at the moment and will try later tonight PSK 31 TX503.000 PSK 31 ... RX qrg 503.000 Khz and 3858 KHz tnx- Graham G0NBD
[digitalradio] X band data qso 503 / 3585 KHZ ??
X band data qso ? Running at the moment and will try later tonight PSK 31 TX503.000 PSK 31 ... RX qrg 503.000 Khz and 3858 KHz tnx- Graham G0NBD
[digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
Andy, although I have not tried it with my TS200/TM-D700 combo yet, my question would be, why not put a dual bander antenna on the TS2000 also in place of the monobander UHF antenna that you must have to pull this off as you have stated? Would seem that you could then have the best of both worlds in the mobile AND at the BASE ... Keep us posted on your results, should not be any reason you cannot do it as described, albeit there may be some delays that could cause some digital issues with FLdigi. Are you planning on any form of ARQ? John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewob...@... wrote: I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] RS ID with FLDIGI stops decode
From the beginners' guide at w1hkj.com (Bold and underline added by me) 3.5.2. Other controls RSID This button turns on the receive RSID (automatic mode detection and tuning) feature. When in use, the button turns yellow and no text reception is possible until a signal is identified, or the feature is turned off again. If you plan to use the RSID feature on receive, you must leave the Start New Modem at Sweet Spot item in the menu Configure-Defaults-Misc tab unchecked. Dave hfradio...@gmail.com Real radio bounces off the sky On 4 Oct, at 3:03 PM, Andrew O'Brien wrote: While checking in to a regional NBEMS net today using both Multipsk and FLDIGI, I noticed FLDIGI in 8/500 Olivia would NOT decode at all if the RS ID box in the upper right-hand corner of FLDIGI was checked. It decoded fine when unchecked. -- Andy K3UK
AW: [digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
And you can go on shortwave from your mobile ... nice _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von John Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. Oktober 2009 19:58 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ? Andy, although I have not tried it with my TS200/TM-D700 combo yet, my question would be, why not put a dual bander antenna on the TS2000 also in place of the monobander UHF antenna that you must have to pull this off as you have stated? Would seem that you could then have the best of both worlds in the mobile AND at the BASE ... Keep us posted on your results, should not be any reason you cannot do it as described, albeit there may be some delays that could cause some digital issues with FLdigi. Are you planning on any form of ARQ? John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewob...@... wrote: I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] RS ID with FLDIGI stops decode
Thanks, that makes sense now? Andy On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Dave hfradio...@gmail.com wrote: From the beginners' guide at w1hkj.com (Bold and underline added by me) 3.5.2. Other controlsRSID This button turns on the receive RSID (automatic mode detection and tuning) feature. *When in use, the button turns yellow and no text reception is possible until a signal is identified, or the feature is turned off again*. If you plan to use the RSID feature on receive, you must leave the *Start New Modem at Sweet Spot* item in the menu Configure-Defaults-Misc tab unchecked. Dave hfradio...@gmail.com Real radio bounces off the sky On 4 Oct, at 3:03 PM, Andrew O'Brien wrote: While checking in to a regional NBEMS net today using both Multipsk and FLDIGI, I noticed FLDIGI in 8/500 Olivia would NOT decode at all if the RS ID box in the upper right-hand corner of FLDIGI was checked. It decoded fine when unchecked. -- Andy K3UK -- Andy
Re: [digitalradio] RS ID with FLDIGI stops decode
It IS UNCHECKED but symptom persist.., no decode when RS ID box is checked. Should I leave BOTH unchecked ? I have had it working well in the past. On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Andrew O'Brien andrewob...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks, that makes sense now? Andy On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Dave hfradio...@gmail.com wrote: From the beginners' guide at w1hkj.com (Bold and underline added by me) 3.5.2. Other controls
Re: [digitalradio] Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
Andy, I have a PowerPoint paper around here somewhere which I downloaded on setting up a TS-2000 for KSS, a lot easier then I had setting up my TS-480. From the top of my head the TS-2000 can do VHF/UHF as well which means that you can do everything internally, no need to connect a TM-D700 (as in my case). I have found it now but it's just over 5Mb so here is the link for you to download. http://www.hamstation.com/gallery/Kenwood%20Sky%20Command%20PPT.ppt Hopefully this should give you the info you need? If you have any problems with getting this file drop me a note and I'll send you my copy. CUL Kevin, ZL1KFM. - Original Message - From: obrienaj To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 12:52 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ? I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] ANNOUNCE: PocketDigi 1.0.12 released
Hi gang. After nearly two years I finally found time to release an update on PocketDigi. The biggest new feature is DXCC lookup function and distance / bearing calculation. DXCC database from DXLab Suite was converted into a highly compact form and packed into the PocketDigi binary to simplify installation. PocketDigi 1.0.12 is therefore about 200kB bigger than 1.0.11. One could display DXCC information and distance / bearing from the QSO dialog or from RX view popup menu. The distance and bearing information will be more precise if both calls provide maidenhead locator. I created the first official build for Jornada 680, which is the predecessor of the popular Jornada 720. 680 implements Handheld PC Pro operating system on Hitachi SuperH SH-3 CPU. Handheld PC Pro system does not provide notification on device wake up, therefore the waterfall will not resume after the device falls asleep and wakes up. You have to configure your Joranda 680 not to fall asleep when running PocketDigi. Also the Jornada 680 runs at 133Mhz while other Pocket PCs start at 206MHz, therefore one shall be careful not to open too many multiple channels. I implemented configuration on waterfall scrolling direction (up/down/left/right). For visual CW it is convenient to let the waterfall scroll from right to left. I extended configuration choice on waterfall speed and resolution. At slow speeds the waterfall frames are averaged to improve resolution. I plan to add the QRSS waterfall speeds in near future. For the ATS-3b transceiver I added configuration of the PSK31/63 TX waveform timing. The ATS-3b transceiver CW wave has nearly linear on/off ramps. The ramp slope is configured by C42 between source and gate of Q5. The value of 10nF provides transition times about 5ms. Changing C42 to 47nF and setting the PSK31 delay time to 6ms provides a PSK31 signal with IMD 24dB, which is certainly good enough at QRP levels. I fixed couple of bugs and annoyances: There was a bug in RTTY baudot table. H letter following a digit was sent as #. The error was inherited from gMFSK. Saving / restoring parameters of current channel. Next time PocketDigi gets started, the previous frequency, mode / submode and mode parameters are selected. Trimming of whitespaces in QSO dialog. When a call, QTH, name and other were selected in RX window and inserted into QSO dialog using popup menu, the values contained trailing spaces. These spaces were then transmitted by macros. The leading and trailing whitespaces are removed automatically now. 73, Vojtech OK1IAK, AB2ZA
[digitalradio] Re: X band data qso 503 / 3585 KHZ ??
Cross band Qso with DK6NI at 650 miles using psk31 has to be a record ! found that digipan was printing better at low level on 80 than fldigi ... though that was not supposed to happen .!. the two progs looking at the same sound card ... Gerhard reporting 'stable signal' on 500 and printing well .. G .. --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, graham787 g0...@... wrote: X band data qso ? Running at the moment and will try later tonight PSK 31 TX503.000 PSK 31 ... RX qrg 503.000 Khz and 3858 KHz tnx- Graham G0NBD
[digitalradio] Re: Digital modes and transmitter distortion
MFSK16this is a single tone system and should not suffer from IMD problems , similar to wspr.. you should just see a single tone .. any side bands are products of the audio and transmitter (if the synth is slightly noisey, then this will reduce the maximum IMD you can achive) ..or the pa-psu .. any low level noise will cause side bands and degrage the readings .. eg wspr secondary decodes at 60 or 120 hz for the usa or 50 or 100 hz for the uk , due to mains hum ... ??, olivia uses rounded envalopes to reduce the bandwith at the expense of 'ultimate' performance .. but then needs a linear tx path Its very easey to get allsorts of odd readingd using pc sound cards ..unless you can contain the stray rf from the t/r the measurments will have a lot of imposed noise and ripple ... can you get some one close by to check the signal off air .. that might be a usefull mesure ? G .. --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Charles Preston cpres...@... wrote: I try to be careful about IMD or other transmitter distortion levels for PSK31, MFSK16, WSPR and other digital modes. My experience with ALC levels differs from advice I often see, which is that audio driving levels should always be lower than the level that produces any ALC indication. Maybe I'm measuring incorrectly, but on an IC-7000 and an FT-817ND, the lowest distortion levels seem to be with a low ALC indication. Measurement methods include: 1. Spectrum analyzer (RF) looking at the transmitter output signal taken from a Bird 4275 sampler or with a small whip plus air gap 2. Looking at both waterfall and regular SA display on another receiver/computer/software chain, trying to be careful with receiver and computer input levels 3. Measuring the received IMD level during PSK31 idle, using a separate receiver/computer chain with various software IMD readouts 4. Checking distortion levels from the driving computer audio directly, by using other computers, sometimes using an audio interface like an M-Audio Delta 44 or Roland FA-66 or audio-USB interface instead of the computer sound card direct analog input. Most of the extra audio measurements came after I used a tablet computer with a receiver, and couldn't seem to get PSK31 IMD better than about -20 dB with any level input into the IC-7000. After comparing with another laptop connected to the measurement receiver and seeing more reasonable distortion, I found that the audio software/ driver on the tablet could not reliably turn off special effects that were causing the high measured distortion. With various measurement setups I usually increase the transmitter audio level until the RF power output quits going up, then lower the audio until the RF output power starts dropping. I can watch the reported IMD for PSK31 get worse, to around -12 dB, then better down to -25 or -30 dB. On each transmitter the lowest level of distortion seems to occur with some (instead of no) ALC indication. For the IC-7000, the ALC is at about 4 indicator segments. For the FT-817ND set at 2.5 W output, the lowest distortion (WSPR) seems to be with 1-4 ALC indicator segments. Below 1 the distortion I'm seeing goes up a little, and at 5 or above it goes up. Despite spending considerable time and effort on this, my results seem to disagree with advice I keep seeing on how to set input audio levels. I think the distortion levels I'm measuring are likely to be accurate, since I can decode my transmitted digital signals down to low levels of RF input to the receiver. Is there a better way to measure distortion? Any systematic error I'm probably making? Thanks. Charles Preston KL7OA
Re: [digitalradio] RS ID with FLDIGI stops decode
3.5.2. Other controls RSID This button turns on the receive RSID (automatic mode detection and tuning) feature. When in use, the button turns yellow and no text reception is possible until a signal is identified, or the feature is turned off again. If you plan to use the RSID feature on receive, you must leave the /Start New Modem at Sweet Spot/ item in the menu Configure-Defaults-Misc tab unchecked. .. unless you are using pskmail or another channelized service. Rein PA0R -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Warren - How does THOR compare with DominoEX and Olivia?
Tony, Thanks ! Is there a case where THOR4 has better copy than Olivia 8/250? Warren - K5WGM --- On Sun, 10/4/09, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: From: Tony d...@optonline.net Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Warren - How does THOR compare with DominoEX and Olivia? To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 4:30 AM Warren, I had my 1st THOR4 contact the other day on 30meters. It is very good at very weak signals and a lot of noise. How do you compare it with DominoEX and Olivia? Warren - K5WGM That's a good question and I took some time to run each mode through the HF path simulator. I tried to get the bandwidth / word-per-minute rates as close as possible for an apples-to-apples comparison. The wpm rates are approximate. Test #1 In this test, we determined the lowest signal-to-noise ratio possible for each mode (no HF path distortion) SNR @ 3KHz BW. THOR4 14 wpm 173Hz BW -14db SNR OLIVIA 2/125 12wpm 125Hz BW -15db SNR OLIVIA 8/250 17wpm 250Hz BW -15db SNR DominoEX-4 27wpm* 173Hz BW-15db SIR *Slowest DominoEx mode 27wpm. In this test, all modes were tested with a moderate high-latitude (polar ionosphere) disturbance. The SNR was increased to -8bd; 7db above the minimum SNR. THOR4 NO COPY OLIVIA 1/125100% COPY OLIVIA 8/250 100% COPY DominoEX-4 NO COPY Selective fade test - the type of slow and deep selective fading found on many paths. Same -8db SNR. THOR4 100% COPY OLIVIA 2/125 100% COPY OLIVIA 8/250 100% COPY DominoEX-4 75% COPY Conclusion: The high-latitude simulation was too much for both THOR and Dominio-EX4 which is an indication that they would most likely have difficulty with moderately disturbed polar ionosphere. Both show an intolerance to frequency spreading fouund on these paths. In the selective fade test which emulates notch attenuation sweeping across the spectrum, THOR and OLIVIA did well while DominioEX-4 showed signs of failure indicating this might not be the best mode when selective fading is present. It seems to me that since all 4 modes have nearly the same sensitivity, it would be difficult to tell the difference between them on a stable HF channel. The DominoEX4 mode that did poorly on disturbed paths would be the better choice during quite conditions since it moves along at a much faster 27 wpm. It all depends on conditions at hand. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
John, I was simply trying to avoid having to run 150 ft of expensive coax to the only place I can put an outdoor dual band antenna, previously I have not had good luck with in door antennas in the shack but can hit the desired repeater from my car in the street. I may try a window ledge antenna based on an idea from Skip Teller. Andy K3UK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John ke5h...@... wrote: Andy, although I have not tried it with my TS200/TM-D700 combo yet, my question would be, why not put a dual bander antenna on the TS2000 also in place of the monobander UHF antenna that you must have to pull this off as you have stated? Would seem that you could then have the best of both worlds in the mobile AND at the BASE ... Keep us posted on your results, should not be any reason you cannot do it as described, albeit there may be some delays that could cause some digital issues with FLdigi. Are you planning on any form of ARQ? John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewobrie@ wrote: I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
I do understand Andy. I made a common mistake in that I ASSUMED you had an outdoor UHF antenna in place to work your vehicle with, which would have likely had coax already run. My error indeed. Best of luck getting connected to the 2 meter repeater from inside your shack. It is just a funny concept (novel/comical) to use a mobile station to act as a repeater for a more powerful base station. Again, best of luck and keep us posted on your results, 73 John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewob...@... wrote: John, I was simply trying to avoid having to run 150 ft of expensive coax to the only place I can put an outdoor dual band antenna, previously I have not had good luck with in door antennas in the shack but can hit the desired repeater from my car in the street. I may try a window ledge antenna based on an idea from Skip Teller. Andy K3UK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John ke5ham3@ wrote: Andy, although I have not tried it with my TS200/TM-D700 combo yet, my question would be, why not put a dual bander antenna on the TS2000 also in place of the monobander UHF antenna that you must have to pull this off as you have stated? Would seem that you could then have the best of both worlds in the mobile AND at the BASE ... Keep us posted on your results, should not be any reason you cannot do it as described, albeit there may be some delays that could cause some digital issues with FLdigi. Are you planning on any form of ARQ? John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewobrie@ wrote: I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ?
Goodness, how far away is the repeater? I nonomally hit repeatrs at 60-100 miles away with the hand held antenna here in the shack, in the basement. Putting a small verticle up on the roof, attached to the vent pipe usually works well. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice) short stints at: DA/PA/SU/HZ/7X/DU CR9/7Y/KH7/5A Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk dxandt...@yahoogroups.com Moderator Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: John To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Using TS2000, D700A and Sky Command for digital modes ? I do understand Andy. I made a common mistake in that I ASSUMED you had an outdoor UHF antenna in place to work your vehicle with, which would have likely had coax already run. My error indeed. Best of luck getting connected to the 2 meter repeater from inside your shack. It is just a funny concept (novel/comical) to use a mobile station to act as a repeater for a more powerful base station. Again, best of luck and keep us posted on your results, 73 John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewob...@... wrote: John, I was simply trying to avoid having to run 150 ft of expensive coax to the only place I can put an outdoor dual band antenna, previously I have not had good luck with in door antennas in the shack but can hit the desired repeater from my car in the street. I may try a window ledge antenna based on an idea from Skip Teller. Andy K3UK --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John ke5ham3@ wrote: Andy, although I have not tried it with my TS200/TM-D700 combo yet, my question would be, why not put a dual bander antenna on the TS2000 also in place of the monobander UHF antenna that you must have to pull this off as you have stated? Would seem that you could then have the best of both worlds in the mobile AND at the BASE ... Keep us posted on your results, should not be any reason you cannot do it as described, albeit there may be some delays that could cause some digital issues with FLdigi. Are you planning on any form of ARQ? John - KE5HAM --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, obrienaj andrewobrie@ wrote: I am planning on attempting to access a local 2M FM repeater that has started using FL-digi for a digital mode net. Since I do not have a 2M antenna at home other than the dual-band 2M/70cm mobile antenna on my car, I thought I might try the Sky Command capabilities that my rigs have. Anyone already done this and perhaps have the set-up files that can be shared ? This would involve operating from my shack with PC and Kenwood TS2000 , using a UHF simplex frequency to transmit to my vehicle in the drive-way. In the vehicle a Kenwood D700A would pick up the UHF simplex transmission and link it to the 2M side of the DM700A for access to the 2M repeater. If someone does have the files all set for this, could you let me know (or upload to the files section here) , it would save me a lot of manual searching and eye squinting. Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: Digital modes and transmitter distortion
Charles: I have had some of the same concerns as you concerning the ALC level and distortion especially after reading the operation manual for a MFJ-1279. The manual specifically addresses the issue of why a spectrum analyzer and IMD display might not show the distortion from an improper ALC setting. I found the explanation interesting. If you would like to read the text from the manual, I will be happy to send it to you via e-mail. Dick, kc4cop --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, graham787 g0...@... wrote: MFSK16this is a single tone system and should not suffer from IMD problems , similar to wspr.. you should just see a single tone .. any side bands are products of the audio and transmitter (if the synth is slightly noisey, then this will reduce the maximum IMD you can achive) ..or the pa-psu .. any low level noise will cause side bands and degrage the readings .. eg wspr secondary decodes at 60 or 120 hz for the usa or 50 or 100 hz for the uk , due to mains hum ... ??, olivia uses rounded envalopes to reduce the bandwith at the expense of 'ultimate' performance .. but then needs a linear tx path Its very easey to get allsorts of odd readingd using pc sound cards ..unless you can contain the stray rf from the t/r the measurments will have a lot of imposed noise and ripple ... can you get some one close by to check the signal off air .. that might be a usefull mesure ? G .. --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Charles Preston cpreston@ wrote: I try to be careful about IMD or other transmitter distortion levels for PSK31, MFSK16, WSPR and other digital modes. My experience with ALC levels differs from advice I often see, which is that audio driving levels should always be lower than the level that produces any ALC indication. Maybe I'm measuring incorrectly, but on an IC-7000 and an FT-817ND, the lowest distortion levels seem to be with a low ALC indication. Measurement methods include: 1. Spectrum analyzer (RF) looking at the transmitter output signal taken from a Bird 4275 sampler or with a small whip plus air gap 2. Looking at both waterfall and regular SA display on another receiver/computer/software chain, trying to be careful with receiver and computer input levels 3. Measuring the received IMD level during PSK31 idle, using a separate receiver/computer chain with various software IMD readouts 4. Checking distortion levels from the driving computer audio directly, by using other computers, sometimes using an audio interface like an M-Audio Delta 44 or Roland FA-66 or audio-USB interface instead of the computer sound card direct analog input. Most of the extra audio measurements came after I used a tablet computer with a receiver, and couldn't seem to get PSK31 IMD better than about -20 dB with any level input into the IC-7000. After comparing with another laptop connected to the measurement receiver and seeing more reasonable distortion, I found that the audio software/ driver on the tablet could not reliably turn off special effects that were causing the high measured distortion. With various measurement setups I usually increase the transmitter audio level until the RF power output quits going up, then lower the audio until the RF output power starts dropping. I can watch the reported IMD for PSK31 get worse, to around -12 dB, then better down to -25 or -30 dB. On each transmitter the lowest level of distortion seems to occur with some (instead of no) ALC indication. For the IC-7000, the ALC is at about 4 indicator segments. For the FT-817ND set at 2.5 W output, the lowest distortion (WSPR) seems to be with 1-4 ALC indicator segments. Below 1 the distortion I'm seeing goes up a little, and at 5 or above it goes up. Despite spending considerable time and effort on this, my results seem to disagree with advice I keep seeing on how to set input audio levels. I think the distortion levels I'm measuring are likely to be accurate, since I can decode my transmitted digital signals down to low levels of RF input to the receiver. Is there a better way to measure distortion? Any systematic error I'm probably making? Thanks. Charles Preston KL7OA
