Re: [digitalradio] Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
Thanks for the feedback guys. I will play around with the settings...once I find a person to contact on 2M. Andy K3UK On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Andy, I believe you have a Kenwood TS2K(?). If so, there is a way to control the digital mode audio level on FM. If you're feeding the audio through the microphone connector, menu 41 has a low, medium and high setting. If your using the 13 pin DIN plug, the audio input can be adjusted via menu # 50. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
Well - I would try it, but Im in Va, and you are in NY. so doubt 2 fm would get that far. Have you tried 6 meter FM digital? Should respond the same way, with better props! Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice). Short stints at: DA/PA/SU/HZ/7X/DU CR9/7Y/KH7/5A/GW/GM/F Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: Andy obrien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ? Thanks for the feedback guys. I will play around with the settings...once I find a person to contact on 2M. Andy K3UK On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Andy, I believe you have a Kenwood TS2K(?). If so, there is a way to control the digital mode audio level on FM. If you're feeding the audio through the microphone connector, menu 41 has a low, medium and high setting. If your using the 13 pin DIN plug, the audio input can be adjusted via menu # 50. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
Hi Andy, I suppose this would be confusing to someone not used to FM operation on a multi-mode rig. In all modes, ALC is a function of transmitter output power. In SSB modes we keep our transmitted digital signals clean by running our transceivers below the power level that causes ALC to be generated. In FM, however, the transmitted signal is a constant level carrier. The audio modulation from the sound card causes the frequency of that carrier to 'deviate' above and below its unmodulated frequency. What we care about on digital FM is how clean the audio at the receive end is. The ALC reading reflects only how much RF we are putting out, not what the modulation looks like at the receiving end. Remember that essentially all voice FM transmitters use some sort of peak audio clipping to limit how wide our modulation 'deviates' to keep it inside the pass band of the receive IF filters. When we run digital FM, we need to keep the audio drive low enough that we are not driving the transmitter audio section into clipping. Setting the audio drive level for digital operation with an FM transmitter is not quite as simple as for SSB. We really must monitor the actual transmitted signal while we make that adjustment. That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. That said, though, a little extra distortion is not quite the problem on FM it is on SSB. On FM, audio distortion will generally not interfere with other stations. It may look bad on the water fall and may not decode quite as easily as if the level was correct but it will likely still work OK. That is why we can get away with just holding a handy talkie up to the computer speaker to operate digital modes on VHF FM. That make sense? Gary - N0GW --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andy obrien k3uka...@... wrote: Hmmm. Well I thought it would be simple enough to transmit digital modes on 2M FM but one issue I just ran in to is the ALC is very high and my usual method of lowering it has no effect. I also lowered the mic gain but that had no impact. Something simple I am not taking in to account when using FM ? Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. Comparing your own digital modulation... How do you do that? Please explain. K5WGM --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Gary grwes...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Gary grwes...@yahoo.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ? To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 8:51 AM Hi Andy, I suppose this would be confusing to someone not used to FM operation on a multi-mode rig. In all modes, ALC is a function of transmitter output power. In SSB modes we keep our transmitted digital signals clean by running our transceivers below the power level that causes ALC to be generated. In FM, however, the transmitted signal is a constant level carrier. The audio modulation from the sound card causes the frequency of that carrier to 'deviate' above and below its unmodulated frequency. What we care about on digital FM is how clean the audio at the receive end is. The ALC reading reflects only how much RF we are putting out, not what the modulation looks like at the receiving end. Remember that essentially all voice FM transmitters use some sort of peak audio clipping to limit how wide our modulation 'deviates' to keep it inside the pass band of the receive IF filters. When we run digital FM, we need to keep the audio drive low enough that we are not driving the transmitter audio section into clipping. Setting the audio drive level for digital operation with an FM transmitter is not quite as simple as for SSB. We really must monitor the actual transmitted signal while we make that adjustment. That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. That said, though, a little extra distortion is not quite the problem on FM it is on SSB. On FM, audio distortion will generally not interfere with other stations. It may look bad on the water fall and may not decode quite as easily as if the level was correct but it will likely still work OK. That is why we can get away with just holding a handy talkie up to the computer speaker to operate digital modes on VHF FM. That make sense? Gary - N0GW --- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com, Andy obrien k3uka...@.. . wrote: Hmmm. Well I thought it would be simple enough to transmit digital modes on 2M FM but one issue I just ran in to is the ALC is very high and my usual method of lowering it has no effect. I also lowered the mic gain but that had no impact. Something simple I am not taking in to account when using FM ? Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
On Monday 16 November 2009 08:10:08 Andy obrien wrote: Thanks for the feedback guys. I will play around with the settings...once I find a person to contact on 2M. Andy K3UK On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Andy, I believe you have a Kenwood TS2K(?). If so, there is a way to control the digital mode audio level on FM. If you're feeding the audio through the microphone connector, menu 41 has a low, medium and high setting. If your using the 13 pin DIN plug, the audio input can be adjusted via menu # 50. Tony -K2MO Andy, If you have done packet at the start of the packet craze back in the late 80's, you probably would remember that AEA (at the time) came out with a nice FM deviation meter that was used to determine if you were over modulating your signal. Don't remember the model number as it has been a LONG time since I have even seen one..:) Do a google search for 'FM deviation meter' and you'll come up with a few nice links for either building your ownmeter or modifying a Motorola Maxtrak to use along with some test equipment for checking your deviation. I think the Maxtrak idea is probably going to be the simplest and cheapest way to do it. MFJ makes a 2m FM signal Analyzer, the mfj-224. A little pricey at 180 dollars but the manual says it has a output that goes to a scope to monitor. The top three google links for 'FM deviation meter' are the what I am refering to for the above. Hope this helps some. If you were on SSB, I would give it a try as we are only roughly 200 miles apart across Lake erie. James W8ISS Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
Well for a week I sat on 145.000 Mhz 2M FM and call CQ and what I did was use my scaner to listen to my self and try to see if I was not over driving the FM, and if it sounded clean I was happy, I had no takers for the hold week and the rig was a Icom 706mk2g. GL Russell NC5O 1- Whoever said nothing is impossible never tried slamming a revolving door! 2- A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson IN GOD WE TRUST Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693 From: Warren Moxley k5...@yahoo.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 9:37:23 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ? That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. Comparing your own digital modulation.. . How do you do that? Please explain. K5WGM --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Gary grwes...@yahoo. com wrote: From: Gary grwes...@yahoo. com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ? To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 8:51 AM Hi Andy, I suppose this would be confusing to someone not used to FM operation on a multi-mode rig. In all modes, ALC is a function of transmitter output power. In SSB modes we keep our transmitted digital signals clean by running our transceivers below the power level that causes ALC to be generated. In FM, however, the transmitted signal is a constant level carrier. The audio modulation from the sound card causes the frequency of that carrier to 'deviate' above and below its unmodulated frequency. What we care about on digital FM is how clean the audio at the receive end is. The ALC reading reflects only how much RF we are putting out, not what the modulation looks like at the receiving end. Remember that essentially all voice FM transmitters use some sort of peak audio clipping to limit how wide our modulation 'deviates' to keep it inside the pass band of the receive IF filters. When we run digital FM, we need to keep the audio drive low enough that we are not driving the transmitter audio section into clipping. Setting the audio drive level for digital operation with an FM transmitter is not quite as simple as for SSB. We really must monitor the actual transmitted signal while we make that adjustment. That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. That said, though, a little extra distortion is not quite the problem on FM it is on SSB. On FM, audio distortion will generally not interfere with other stations. It may look bad on the water fall and may not decode quite as easily as if the level was correct but it will likely still work OK. That is why we can get away with just holding a handy talkie up to the computer speaker to operate digital modes on VHF FM. That make sense? Gary - N0GW --- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com, Andy obrien k3uka...@.. . wrote: Hmmm. Well I thought it would be simple enough to transmit digital modes on 2M FM but one issue I just ran in to is the ALC is very high and my usual method of lowering it has no effect. I also lowered the mic gain but that had no impact. Something simple I am not taking in to account when using FM ? Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
Hi Warren, The cheap and dirty way we did it a decade or two ago to set up packet stations was to hook the speaker output of a handy-talky to a VOM and monitor the audio level coming from another packet station that was working well. You then adjusted the local transmit audio level to produce the same voltage on the VOM on the handy-talky. If you have no other stations to check against, my guess is you would just listen to your signal on the handy-talky and set digital modulation level to be a little below peak voice level when talking into the microphone. As long as the digital signal sounds fairly clean to your ear, it will probably be OK. If there is someone nearby who can monitor your signal with a digital program to display your signal on a waterfall, you could coordinate with them to find a level that is below the clipping distortion level but high enough to give good copy under noisy conditions. That is about the best I can come up with off the top of my head. I did buy one of the MFJ meters a while back and find it works OK when use with a scope. It's not what you would call a precision instrument but it has gotten the job done adequately. Gary - N0GW --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Warren Moxley k5...@... wrote: That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. Comparing your own digital modulation... How do you do that? Please explain. K5WGM
Re: [digitalradio] Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
I used a Radio Shack scanner and tapped the demodulator (MC3359) output to an scope. Used another synthesized radio to calibrate, first on channel (0 Hz difference...hopefully), then 5 kHz up and 5 kHz down. It gives proper reference to baseline and peak to peak deviation. Then modulate the radio you are calibrating so peaks do not go beyond calibration. It is IMPORTANT that you do not clip the audio and preserve proper preemphasis. John Ackermann's www.febo.com had a good explanation about caring for Layer 1 on packet. I did not have the fine instruments he had and devised my own way. It works. 73, Jose, CO2JA James French escribió: On Monday 16 November 2009 08:10:08 Andy obrien wrote: Thanks for the feedback guys. I will play around with the settings...once I find a person to contact on 2M. Andy K3UK On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: Andy, I believe you have a Kenwood TS2K(?). If so, there is a way to control the digital mode audio level on FM. If you're feeding the audio through the microphone connector, menu 41 has a low, medium and high setting. If your using the 13 pin DIN plug, the audio input can be adjusted via menu # 50. Tony -K2MO Andy, If you have done packet at the start of the packet craze back in the late 80's, you probably would remember that AEA (at the time) came out with a nice FM deviation meter that was used to determine if you were over modulating your signal. Don't remember the model number as it has been a LONG time since I have even seen one..:) Do a google search for 'FM deviation meter' and you'll come up with a few nice links for either building your ownmeter or modifying a Motorola Maxtrak to use along with some test equipment for checking your deviation. I think the Maxtrak idea is probably going to be the simplest and cheapest way to do it. MFJ makes a 2m FM signal Analyzer, the mfj-224. A little pricey at 180 dollars but the manual says it has a output that goes to a scope to monitor. The top three google links for 'FM deviation meter' are the what I am refering to for the above. Hope this helps some. If you were on SSB, I would give it a try as we are only roughly 200 miles apart across Lake erie. James W8ISS Participe en Universidad 2010, del 8 al 12 de febrero de 2010 La Habana, Cuba http://www.universidad2010.cu - SEGUNDO SEMINARIO INTERNACIONAL LEGADO Y DIVERSIDAD. ARQUITECTURA Y URBANISMO. El rescate de los valores urbanos y arquitectónicos en tiempos de globalización Colegio de San Gerónimo, La Habana Vieja, noviembre 24-27, 2009 - Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] PSK31 Beacon on 60m
Hi all I am running a 5W PSK31 beacon + RS ID at 5350 Khz + 1500Hz USB this evening. Software: Multipsk Transceiver: Modified ICOM IC-718 Antenna: w3dzz (80, 40 an 20m) tuned with a LDG AT-100Pro Autotuner. Try to catch me ;) 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ?
Thanks, K5WGM --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Gary grwes...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Gary grwes...@yahoo.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Digital on 2M FM: Audio settings ? To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 2:28 PM Hi Warren, The cheap and dirty way we did it a decade or two ago to set up packet stations was to hook the speaker output of a handy-talky to a VOM and monitor the audio level coming from another packet station that was working well. You then adjusted the local transmit audio level to produce the same voltage on the VOM on the handy-talky. If you have no other stations to check against, my guess is you would just listen to your signal on the handy-talky and set digital modulation level to be a little below peak voice level when talking into the microphone. As long as the digital signal sounds fairly clean to your ear, it will probably be OK. If there is someone nearby who can monitor your signal with a digital program to display your signal on a waterfall, you could coordinate with them to find a level that is below the clipping distortion level but high enough to give good copy under noisy conditions. That is about the best I can come up with off the top of my head. I did buy one of the MFJ meters a while back and find it works OK when use with a scope. It's not what you would call a precision instrument but it has gotten the job done adequately. Gary - N0GW --- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com, Warren Moxley k5...@... wrote: That can be tricky without a deviation monitor but it can be done by comparing your own digital modulation to other known good signals. Comparing your own digital modulation.. . How do you do that? Please explain. K5WGM
Re: [digitalradio] 60M JT65A beacon QRT
Steinar Aanesland wrote: I will be on air again tomorrow for more testing. Nothing heard tonight, although LA6VNA popped up on the 60M map as follows. LA6VNA Tx 20% 14.097110 37dbm Not sure if that was an incorrect designation for 60M, or if a transverter was being used to get from 20M. I'm back on WSPR on 60M, but even G0KTN doesn't seem to be around. Dave (G0DJA)
Re: [digitalradio] PSK31 Beacon on 60m
Steinar Aanesland wrote: Hi all I am running a 5W PSK31 beacon + RS ID at 5350 Khz + 1500Hz USB this evening. I'll take another listen now. :-) Dave (G0DJA)
Re: [digitalradio] PSK31 Beacon on 60m
Hi Dave It will surprise me if you are able to see my psk31 beacon this evening. I think I will change the mode to olivia 4-250 then you probably will have a chance. 73 LA5VNA Steinar Dave Ackrill wrote: Steinar Aanesland wrote: Hi all I am running a 5W PSK31 beacon + RS ID at 5350 Khz + 1500Hz USB this evening. I'll take another listen now. :-) Dave (G0DJA)
Re: [multipsk] Re: [digitalradio] PSK31 Beacon on 60m
QRT now 73 de LA5VNA Steinar -- Steinar Aanesland wrote: Hi Dave It will surprise me if you are able to see my psk31 beacon this evening. I think I will change the mode to olivia 4-250 then you probably will have a chance. 73 LA5VNA Steinar Dave Ackrill wrote: Steinar Aanesland wrote: Hi all I am running a 5W PSK31 beacon + RS ID at 5350 Khz + 1500Hz USB this evening. I'll take another listen now. :-) Dave (G0DJA)
[digitalradio] Propnet move
From what I can gather from the Propnet yahoo group, they have moved to 28.1188MHz as of this week for those of you who want to listen in and monitor. You can check out their page at: http://propnet.org for more info on the move on 10m. James W8ISS
