Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Rick]

The speeds look similar to Pactor 3 if the S/N ratios are as high as 
they seem to be. By the time you reach 15 dB S/N P3 should be close to 
maxing out at 2722 bps uncompressed, therefore throughput of around 5000 
bps or 5000 wpm at maximum.

The MIL-STD-188-110A (older) specification has speeds up to 4800 bps.

The MIL-STD-188-110B (3G) specification adds speeds up to 9600 bps.

The STANAG 4539 specifications have three waveforms include three levels:
- a very robust low speed 75 bps that uses the STANAG 4415 PSK data 
modem waveform
- a medium speed MIL-STD-188-110B waveform
- a high speed waveform from MIL-STD-188-110B, Appendix C, providing 
3200 to 12800 bps

There are others including a QAM modem approach

(Reference my ALE Protocols and Terms document on the hfdec yahoogroup 
site for more details).

Overall it sounds pretty exciting to me as I know how well 1000 bps 
worked with SCAMP and I was quite surprised and pleased how well it 
worked with good signals.

It will be interesting for you to provide us with more information with 
the weaker signals, especially those below zero dB S/N since that is the 
where the difficulty lies.

73,

Rick, KV9U

Les Keppie wrote:
>
> I DONT THINK YOU LOOKED AT THE FILE SIZES AND THE TRANSFER TIMES
> OF THE FILES LISTED BELOW   READ ALL OF BELOW THROUGH
> FOR FILE SIZES AND TIMES TAKEN(Copied from previous email)
>
> Connecting to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
> RFSM-8000, version 0.508, user license: BETA-TESTER - 29/09/2007 - 
> 11:19:09 AM
> Maximum supported connection speed - 8000 bit/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
> Connected to 'TEST4' - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
> 'TEST4' accept FTP-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
> 'TEST4' accept MAIL-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
> Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:20:10 AM
> File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 173 sec, average 
> speed 1322 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:23:20 AM
> Receiving file 'ATT00023.jpg', size 39781 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:24:18 AM
> File 'ATT00023.jpg' received succesfully, all time 259 sec, average 
> speed 1225 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:28:55 AM
> Receiving file 'ATT00011.jpg', size 16126 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:29:40 AM
> File 'ATT00011.jpg' received succesfully, all time 45 sec, average speed 
> 2846 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:30:42 AM
> Receiving file 'ATT00020.jpg', size 35064 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:31:37 AM
> File 'ATT00020.jpg' received succesfully, all time 257 sec, average 
> speed 1090 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:11 AM
> 'TEST4' request to read download directory 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
> Request for sending file 'filelist' to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
> Sending file 'filelist', size 643 bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 
> 11:36:29 AM
> File 'filelist' sended succesfully, all time 14 sec, average speed 350 
> bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:44 AM
> 'TEST4' request to get file 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT\#70726153230- de 
> VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:47 AM
> Request for sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' to 
> 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:48 AM
> Sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg', size 67971 
> bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:38:09 AM
> File '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' sended succesfully, all 
> time 405 sec, average speed 1342 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:44:54 AM
> Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:45:36 AM
> File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 90 sec, average speed 
> 2531 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:47:24 AM
> Receiving file 'ATT00035.jpg', size 32482 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
> 29/09/2007 - 11:48:12 AM
> File 'ATT00035.jpg' received succesfully, all time 117 sec, average 
> speed 2214 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:50:26 AM
> Receiving file 'Hi-Q Hat + Hot Rodz addition.JPG', size 1089463 bytes, 
> from 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:51:39 AM
>
>   


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Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Rick]

I am convinced that the MIL-STD-188-110A and similar high speed 8PSK2400 
modes are legal on the voice/image portions of the bands. Being a fairly 
conservative type person, my plan is to contact the FCC and get a better 
read out.

In fact, I am working on a request for a response from FCC on several 
digital issues that I think should be examined. If anyone has a specific 
item that they would like me to ask, please contact me or suggest 
something on this group.

Some wanted me to not ask certain questions, but it seems that it is 
better to ask and be told no, than to do nothing and find out later that 
you could have been doing something legally all along.

I do want to ask about how they view the operation of automatic stations 
that do not listen before transmitting, particularly the ALE sounding 
and calling and the various mail systems.

73,

Rick, KV9U


Andrew O'Brien wrote:
> So, Rick...am I correct in assuming RFSM is legal in the USA if you
> got to the image sub-bands ?
>
>
>   

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Les Keppie]

Howard Brown wrote:
> Les, can you comment on Rick's question about PTT via CAT?
> 
> I know that RFSM2400 keys my PTT via my Rigblaster but I 
> guess Rick wants it to key the rig via the data port???
> 
> Howard K5HB
> 
Some Kenwood models already catered for - and there is a user defined 
setup for other radios
Dmitry does not have the various parameters for keying Yaesu and Icom
radios at this time but I am very certain if someone were to send him 
this information he would soon put it in the current program
In an earlier email I did ask if anyone could send him the information 
for both Yaesu and Icom radios he would put it in the program for
Ptt on and off

This is an evolving program and to quote him from the webpage

 >Current version is 0.508(beta). (In reference to RFSM8000)

 >Program is not available for all yet, but will be very soon – in 
October/November 2007.

 >We will respectfully accept any suggestions about new features from 
all >(e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]).

I do think this program will be quite a good rival for Pactor 3
in the registered form - and also a good addition to anyones
data capabilities in the Freeware form

Les VK2DSG


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Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Howard Brown]

Les, can you comment on Rick's question about PTT via CAT?

I know that RFSM2400 keys my PTT via my Rigblaster but I 
guess Rick wants it to key the rig via the data port???

Howard K5HB

- Original Message 
From: Les Keppie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:56:03 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

Rick wrote:
> If the S/N ratios are measuring above the noise, the numbers indicate a 
> very good link. As I have found out the hard way, when we tested SCAMP, 
> it was not easy to even maintain 10 dB above noise. I am not clear on 
> the amount of data you are sending as it appeared to be used more as a 
> chat mode? Or did you send large files too?

I DONT THINK YOU LOOKED AT THE FILE SIZES AND THE TRANSFER TIMES
OF THE FILES LISTED BELOW   READ ALL OF BELOW THROUGH
FOR FILE SIZES AND TIMES TAKEN(Copied from previous email)

Connecting to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
RFSM-8000, version 0.508, user license: BETA-TESTER - 29/09/2007 - 
11:19:09 AM
Maximum supported connection speed - 8000 bit/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
Connected to 'TEST4' - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
'TEST4' accept FTP-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
'TEST4' accept MAIL-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:20:10 AM
File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 173 sec, average 
speed 1322 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:23:20 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00023.jpg', size 39781 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:24:18 AM
File 'ATT00023.jpg' received succesfully, all time 259 sec, average 
speed 1225 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:28:55 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00011.jpg', size 16126 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:29:40 AM
File 'ATT00011.jpg' received succesfully, all time 45 sec, average speed 
2846 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:30:42 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00020.jpg', size 35064 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:31:37 AM
File 'ATT00020.jpg' received succesfully, all time 257 sec, average 
speed 1090 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:11 AM
'TEST4' request to read download directory 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
Request for sending file 'filelist' to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
Sending file 'filelist', size 643 bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 
11:36:29 AM
File 'filelist' sended succesfully, all time 14 sec, average speed 350 
bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:44 AM
'TEST4' request to get file 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT\#70726153230- de 
VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:47 AM
Request for sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' to 
'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:48 AM
Sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg', size 67971 
bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:38:09 AM
File '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' sended succesfully, all 
time 405 sec, average speed 1342 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:44:54 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:45:36 AM
File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 90 sec, average speed 
2531 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:47:24 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00035.jpg', size 32482 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:48:12 AM
File 'ATT00035.jpg' received succesfully, all time 117 sec, average 
speed 2214 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:50:26 AM
Receiving file 'Hi-Q Hat + Hot Rodz addition.JPG', size 1089463 bytes, 
from 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:51:39 AM

If you look at the transfer times you can see they go up and down
in relation to band conditions

> 
> Did the path drop out rather suddenly? The S/N levels seemed to be 
> holding up quite well. If you had switched to Olivia, MFSK16, etc., do 
> you think you could have continued communicating?

Yes the path did drop out completely - and we maybe would have been able 
to continue with Olivia  - but of course it would only have been good 
enough to chat - and maybe small service messages
> 
> The 8PSK ALE modes are the same or very similar waveforms to what is 
> used in RFSM2400 and the advantage of PC-ALE is that it now supports CAT 
> PTT switching which is something I expect in a modern digital program.

Read capabilities of RFSM8000 below
> 
> When I use the term ALE, I am mostly referring to the various modulation 
> schemes as one thing. I personally have minimal interest in the Link 
> Establishment part of ALE as I don't see this as being used much except 
> for some longer distance alerting on HF fo

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Andrew O'Brien]

So, Rick...am I correct in assuming RFSM is legal in the USA if you
got to the image sub-bands ?

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Les Keppie]

Rick wrote:
> If the S/N ratios are measuring above the noise, the numbers indicate a 
> very good link. As I have found out the hard way, when we tested SCAMP, 
> it was not easy to even maintain 10 dB above noise. I am not clear on 
> the amount of data you are sending as it appeared to be used more as a 
> chat mode? Or did you send large files too?

I DONT THINK YOU LOOKED AT THE FILE SIZES AND THE TRANSFER TIMES
OF THE FILES LISTED BELOW   READ ALL OF BELOW THROUGH
FOR FILE SIZES AND TIMES TAKEN(Copied from previous email)

Connecting to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
RFSM-8000, version 0.508, user license: BETA-TESTER - 29/09/2007 - 
11:19:09 AM
Maximum supported connection speed - 8000 bit/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:09 AM
Connected to 'TEST4' - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
'TEST4' accept FTP-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
'TEST4' accept MAIL-requests. - 29/09/2007 - 11:19:17 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:20:10 AM
File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 173 sec, average 
speed 1322 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:23:20 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00023.jpg', size 39781 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:24:18 AM
File 'ATT00023.jpg' received succesfully, all time 259 sec, average 
speed 1225 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:28:55 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00011.jpg', size 16126 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:29:40 AM
File 'ATT00011.jpg' received succesfully, all time 45 sec, average speed 
2846 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:30:42 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00020.jpg', size 35064 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:31:37 AM
File 'ATT00020.jpg' received succesfully, all time 257 sec, average 
speed 1090 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:11 AM
'TEST4' request to read download directory 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
Request for sending file 'filelist' to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:19 AM
Sending file 'filelist', size 643 bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 
11:36:29 AM
File 'filelist' sended succesfully, all time 14 sec, average speed 350 
bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:36:44 AM
'TEST4' request to get file 'C:\RFSM8000\TRANSMIT\#70726153230- de 
VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:47 AM
Request for sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' to 
'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:37:48 AM
Sending file '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg', size 67971 
bytes, to 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:38:09 AM
File '#70726153230- de VK2KDK-birds and bee.jpg' sended succesfully, all 
time 405 sec, average speed 1342 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:44:54 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00017.jpg', size 28623 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:45:36 AM
File 'ATT00017.jpg' received succesfully, all time 90 sec, average speed 
2531 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:47:24 AM
Receiving file 'ATT00035.jpg', size 32482 bytes, from 'TEST4'... - 
29/09/2007 - 11:48:12 AM
File 'ATT00035.jpg' received succesfully, all time 117 sec, average 
speed 2214 bits/sec - 29/09/2007 - 11:50:26 AM
Receiving file 'Hi-Q Hat + Hot Rodz addition.JPG', size 1089463 bytes, 
from 'TEST4'... - 29/09/2007 - 11:51:39 AM

If you look at the transfer times you can see they go up and down
in relation to band conditions

> 
> Did the path drop out rather suddenly? The S/N levels seemed to be 
> holding up quite well. If you had switched to Olivia, MFSK16, etc., do 
> you think you could have continued communicating?

Yes the path did drop out completely - and we maybe would have been able 
to continue with Olivia  - but of course it would only have been good 
enough to chat - and maybe small service messages
> 
> The 8PSK ALE modes are the same or very similar waveforms to what is 
> used in RFSM2400 and the advantage of PC-ALE is that it now supports CAT 
> PTT switching which is something I expect in a modern digital program.

Read capabilities of RFSM8000 below
> 
> When I use the term ALE, I am mostly referring to the various modulation 
> schemes as one thing. I personally have minimal interest in the Link 
> Establishment part of ALE as I don't see this as being used much except 
> for some longer distance alerting on HF for sudden emergencies. What I 
> do see more useful is that the modulation schemes are available as a 
> more open standard and can compete with Pactor modes.

The Freeware version of RFSDM2400 working at max speed of 3200 bits per 
second is available to all
> 
> The fastest modes in RFSM are not as fast as the fastest modes in "ALE" 
> since they can go about double that speed but do require ISB I think and 
> that will not be used on HF amateur radio bands. 

The fastest speed avail to registered users - using the
non standard mode  (.3 TO 2.7 KHZ will be  bits per second and for 
those that can use the .3 to 3.3 khz version will be 8000 bits per second

Again, maybe we need to
> change the terminology to the appropriate MIL-STD or STANAG such as we 
> do with Multipsk calling the slow speed 8FSK125 waveform 141A?
>

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Rick]

If the S/N ratios are measuring above the noise, the numbers indicate a 
very good link. As I have found out the hard way, when we tested SCAMP, 
it was not easy to even maintain 10 dB above noise. I am not clear on 
the amount of data you are sending as it appeared to be used more as a 
chat mode? Or did you send large files too?

Did the path drop out rather suddenly? The S/N levels seemed to be 
holding up quite well. If you had switched to Olivia, MFSK16, etc., do 
you think you could have continued communicating?

The 8PSK ALE modes are the same or very similar waveforms to what is 
used in RFSM2400 and the advantage of PC-ALE is that it now supports CAT 
PTT switching which is something I expect in a modern digital program.

When I use the term ALE, I am mostly referring to the various modulation 
schemes as one thing. I personally have minimal interest in the Link 
Establishment part of ALE as I don't see this as being used much except 
for some longer distance alerting on HF for sudden emergencies. What I 
do see more useful is that the modulation schemes are available as a 
more open standard and can compete with Pactor modes.

The fastest modes in RFSM are not as fast as the fastest modes in "ALE" 
since they can go about double that speed but do require ISB I think and 
that will not be used on HF amateur radio bands. Again, maybe we need to 
change the terminology to the appropriate MIL-STD or STANAG such as we 
do with Multipsk calling the slow speed 8FSK125 waveform 141A?

73,

Rick, KV9U








Les Keppie wrote:
> Hi Rick
> Yes relative S/N reports are given for each paket - but what
> they relate to is any ones guess and since I have no really good test 
> equipment that would do this cant really answer - but yes good data can 
> still be passed with signal levels just above 0db according to what
> we see - and the higher the S/N R the faster speeds can be acheived
> as you should see from the email I sent it is adaptive in speed to the 
> S/N R report it gets back from the receiving station
> If you study the logs I sent you can see it changing speed to adapt to 
> the changing S/N R reports it gets
> It keeps a record of all exchanges it makes (except the actual data)
> in four seperate logs
>
> No I havent  tried the faster Ale modes - whilst I have PC-Ale running 
> on my computer I do not fancy it all that much
> Ale may well be good at finding openings at various times on various 
> frequencies but mostly they are too poor and too short to pass much 
> useful data anyway - and to get decent thruput of data using a 
> comparable waveform it probably requires similar S/N R figures as RFSM8000
>
> Using Amateur bandwith- (ie.  the nonstandard mode in RFSM8000) the
> maximum capable speed is  bits per second which is quite a bit
> faster than that of Ale
>
> I will attach all four logs to cover this mornings test transfers 
> between  VK2DSG and TEST4 -
> You can now work out if you think it works
>
> The tests were done on 7196 usb over a distance of 400 klm
> TEST4 was using 200 watts and I using 100 watts pep
>
> Band faded out at end with no transfer possible
> Regards
> Les
>
>   

[digitalradio] RFSM2400 vs. PC-ALE

[Rick]

Hi Les,

I am not sure how helpful the numbers were, but it does show that you 
are able to get some packets through, which is good. Does the program 
offer any kind of relative S/N or other information when it is working? 
Or can you give us some idea of the conditions and how other modes would 
have fared under those conditions?

Also, have you considered using the 8PSK2400 waveforms in the PC-ALE 
program which uses the standard protocols which appear to be 
functionally identical?

While RFSM2400 does not have rig control for my ICOM radio, PC-ALE has 
this built in now so I am able to operate PC-ALE on 160 to 6 meters 
(with mediocre antennas on some bands). Anyone here who would like to 
try the faster speeds on the PC-ALE program by going to the voice/image 
portions of the bands and send images/fax? I realize that if you can 
actually use voice communication, the S/N is going to be over zero dB, 
but it could at least give you a feel for the capabilities (or not) of 
the mode, relative to other digital modes.

73,

Rick, KV9U




Les Keppie wrote:
>
> Hi Rick
> Well so far with the testing we are doing on RFSM8000
> it appears to work very well -
> below are some transfer figures from the program
> using the Non-standard mode .3 to .2.7 khz wide application
> band in not all that good of condition - freq 10137 usb path distance
> approx 1000 plus klm s/n changing up and down quite dramatically
>   

[digitalradio] RFSM2400 in ZL

[Dave Ingram]

Hi Ralph,

Are there any particular frequencies where you operate RFSM2400? I've recently
downloaded it for use with my new soundcard interface, but didn't know where
to go. I get the impression that these digital modes work even when you can't
hear, so knowing the frequency is important.

ZL1/2/4 all received well here in VK4 with phone, and ZL3/4 with PSK.


Cheers,
Dave.
-- 
David Ingram (VK4TDI & ZL3TDI)
Real email: dave at ingramtech dot com
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
http://www.ingramtech.com/
MGRS: 56J MQ 991583Grid Square: QG62lm


zl1tbg wrote:
> In ZL we are testing RFSM2400 with good results.
> 
> The program installs easily and operates easily first time.
> Operators can see how progress is during a session - not "left in the 
> dark"
> Server PC can be left unattended and autostart on power up.

[digitalradio] RFSM2400

[John Bradley]

For those of you who can , or are willing to try Mil std 188 RFSM, the 
following station will be active 24/7

14109.5 (vfo) VE5GPM , Regina , Saskatchewan, Canada, with a 3 element beam 
roughly pointed at Europe, running
80watts with a TS850SAT

This station is installed at an Emergency Operations Centre (EOC) 

Mail Box and FTP are activated, please leave mail for VE5MU .

Later on this week, the station wil be switched over to 141A for trials. Will 
keep you posted.

John
VE5MU

[digitalradio] RFSM2400

[John Bradley]

March 15,2007

As of 1500Z on 14109.5 USB until Z , no beacon , mil std 188 110A, 

please try a connect

John
VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400

[Les Keppie]

John Bradley wrote:

> 
> will be on 14109.5 USB starting at about 1400Z, and will be on for a while 
> since I have 

a lot of computer work to do tomorrow
> 
> regards
> 
> John
> VE5MU
> 
Les VK2DSG IS IN BEACON MODE ON 14109.5 FROM 0445Z 19TH FOR 2 HOURS -
ANTENNA POINTED SHORT PATH TO CENTRAL USA APPROX

[digitalradio] RFSM2400

[John Bradley]

thanks for the connect tonight, Darrel, and the file transfer works well. 
Later, VE5TLW were working with this a little further, and 
understand how the mailbox works

The software sets up another sub folder under mailbox, labelled with the users 
callsign. right now in my mailbox folder there are 2 sub-folders , 
labelled VE7CUS and VE5TLW.

When I have mail for you, I can place it in your subfolder. When you connect, 
you can ask for a mail list, which I as the server will provide
automatically. You then can download mail by filename,  and down it comes. I 
placed some mail in both VE7CUS and
VE5TLW folders so that they access this tomorrow.

Using the File Transfer Protocol (FTP) we were able to transfer both simple 
text files,  (.txt) and Microsoft Word files (.doc)  without
 many problems. Didn't try a simple .exe file or a .zip file, but will later. 
If either of you wwant to try this, feel free to upload.

Very fast transfer, a .doc file of 19kb transferred in 80 seconds, file 
transfer rates were up to 1400 bits per second, on computers
which are not state-of-the-art.  (the one I use for digi modes is  600mhz, 
running windows 2000)

Roberto, Demetre and Per, I have set you up as users so that you can try a full 
connect ..

will be on 14109.5 USB starting at about 1400Z, and will be on for a while 
since I have a lot of computer work to do tomorrow

regards

John
VE5MU

[digitalradio] RFSM2400 80M

[John Bradley]

well after seeing Bonnie's note will try RFSM2400 on 3620mhz after 0100Z

Some opinions seem tosay that the mode would be legal in the US in the phone 
band as SSTV is?


Will send as many pix as you want on mil std hi hi

John
VE5MU

[digitalradio] RFSM2400

[John Bradley]

So where and when can hams in the US play with RFSM2400?  I'll be back on 
3587.5 after all the RTTY is done, probably
around 0100Z March 18, on until 0400Z using mil standard .

John
VE5MU

[digitalradio] rfsm2400

[John Bradley]

beaconing on mil std 3620khz USB at 0400Z

John
VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400

[Howard Brown]

Hi John,

I had a similar experience running RFSM2400 under Wine on Linux. 

I set up a clean Windows system and went to the latest version of the 
RFSM2400 package and that cleared it up.

The best I could tell, my software was seeing the other station because
the S/N and speed were appearing in the status bar when he replied. 
I assumed it was some wierd problem with Wine.

In that version (0.49) I did not see any packets in the Packets Monitor
window.  On the new version (0.496) I do see packets there.

Oh yes, I exchanged a couple of emails with the author.  He was very 
responsive.

Good Luck,

Howard K5HB

- Original Message 
From: John Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:27:37 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] RFSM2400









  







 HELP!!!

 

 

I cannot seem to get this software running 
properly. 

 

I can call another station, and his station answers 
me , looking for the connect.

 

But I don't see ANY packets from him and can't 
carry thru with the connection. His signal looks good,

everything seems to be working the way it should. 


 

any ideas? and is anyone on 40 or 80 tonight with 
this mode? 

 

John 

VE5MU



  

[digitalradio] RFSM2400

[John Bradley]

 HELP!!!


I cannot seem to get this software running properly. 

I can call another station, and his station answers me , looking for the 
connect.

But I don't see ANY packets from him and can't carry thru with the connection. 
His signal looks good,
everything seems to be working the way it should. 

any ideas? and is anyone on 40 or 80 tonight with this mode? 

John 
VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110

[John Champa]

"If you want to have a revolution, first you must kill all the lawyers."

William Shakespeare

Does that include barracks lawyers?  Just kidding guys.  Keep it light!  HI 
HI

73,
John
K8OCL

Original Message Follows
From: Steinar Aanesland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:08:21 +0100

Here we go again...





---



Just a reminder to the USA based hams , this mode is not considered
legal on HF in the USA.

--
Andy K3UK
Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 
www.obriensweb.
com

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110

[Steinar Aanesland]

Here we go again...





---



Just a reminder to the USA based hams , this mode is not considered
legal on HF in the USA.

-- 
Andy K3UK
Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 
www.obriensweb.
com

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110

[Danny Douglas]

Dang, I was hoping we could use it on earth.

Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.

moderator  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
- Original Message - 
From: "John Champa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110


> Unless you are in MARS...
>
> John, K8OCL
>
> Original Message Follows
> From: "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:29:44 -0400
>
> Just a reminder to the USA based hams , this mode is not considered
> legal on HF in the USA.
>
> --
> Andy K3UK
> Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73
> www.obriensweb.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster
telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007
4:51 PM
>
>

RE: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110

[John Champa]

Unless you are in MARS...

John, K8OCL

Original Message Follows
From: "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:29:44 -0400

Just a reminder to the USA based hams , this mode is not considered
legal on HF in the USA.

--
Andy K3UK
Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73
www.obriensweb.com

[digitalradio] RFSM2400/MIL-STD-188-110

[Andrew O'Brien]

Just a reminder to the USA based hams , this mode is not considered
legal on HF in the USA.

-- 
Andy K3UK
Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73
www.obriensweb.com

[digitalradio] Rfsm2400 v.045

[radionorway]

Hi all,


Version 045 is out

http://home.broadpark.no/~saanes/rfsm2400_v045.zip


>From the readme file:


Changes in version 0.42.

(+) RFSM-2400 allow simple remote control and IPC (option
"AutoTranseive").
Directory "TRANSEIVE" is permanently scanned for files (remote commands).
Allowed next remote commands:
1) Text file with name "connect"  - command "Connect", content of file
is name of called abonent.
2) File with name "disconnect" - command "Disconnect", file is empty.
3) Text file with name "sendfile"  - command "Send file", content of
file is full name of transfered file (NOT required place transfered
file to directory "TRANSEIVE" ;).
4) File with name "stoptrans" - command "Stop transfer", file is empty.
After operations is done, files will be deleted.
So, file "sendfile" will be deleted after transfer is doing.


Changes in version 0.45.

(+) Option "AutoTranseive" renamed to "Enable file-based IPC".
 Program writing to directory "TRANSEIVE" two files for display
current status: 
- "connected" - when connected;
- "transfer" - when sending or receiving files.
When connect is lost or abonent is disconnected, file "connected" will
be deleted.
When transfer is doing or stoped, file "transfer" will be deleted.

(+) Languages switch support. See options and directory "LANGUAGES".
Sorry, but system messages not translated in this version. Coming soon. 

(+) New option - "Delayed user messages". 
Enabled - display user messages only when sended, grayed - display
when typed (gray color) and when sended, disabled - display when typed
(old style).

(-) Fix bugs in packet monitor.


73 de LA5VNA Steinar












--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Steinar Aanesland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> Go to http://rfsm2400.narod.ru/ and download the latest
> MIL-STD 188-110 Modem.
> 
> (Or use my link, it's faster)
> http://home.broadpark.no/~saanes/rfsm2400_v42.zip
> 
> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
>

[digitalradio] Rfsm2400 v.042 and a new web-site

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all,

Go to http://rfsm2400.narod.ru/ and download the latest
MIL-STD 188-110 Modem.

(Or use my link, it's faster)
http://home.broadpark.no/~saanes/rfsm2400_v42.zip

73 de LA5VNA Steinar

[digitalradio] RFSM2400 some English "help"

[Andrew O'Brien]

>From the Russian user forum that was posted earlier, the following are a few 
bits poorly translated in to English that might make a little sense, at 
least give us a start.  I think "lighthouse" may mean beacon?  I like the 
line about the porridge best :>

Andy K3UK




Try also, 4 it only now noted that QRG 3589.

We will today test? 4 to monitor  to 3.731,5 mHz LSB

, is it's a pity. But packets no one of our does see? RN3ZF

 From the monitor of packets it cannot be copied into bufer!
.Pozovite me that in SSB or BPSK 4 to 3,731,500.

to work, audibly it is unimportant it in me, not all immediately passed 
packets. It to me did flood even faylik of 442 bytes with length, it did 
start sufficiently rapidly, but for some reason its side pressure did 
continue to transfer, although in me already file was it can be it could not 
attain from me the confirmed packet or Gluck simply? To author: Monitor by 
packet certainly rough... It would like this plan:

And still: is it possible to make a transfer of "broadcasting" packet, well 
for the lighthouse in order not to loom by call, but as polozhenno 
lighthouse. But that was as follows:
Was under the call sign TEST and gave "infinite" Connect to WORLD. But if 
several WORLD- OV are at the frequency - the same porridge will come out. Is 
necessary some broadcasting packet so that let us say would be:

The "lighthouse Of vasi Of pupkina" But already if someone it hears and will 
want it will be connected to WASIA, will make this, but necessarily still so 
that if occurs connect, then this lighthouse turn off by automaton. What you 
will invent in regard to this?

4 at the end its call sign clogged -
... Like it works, but it is certainly necessary still to work with the 
protocol... 4 thus he understood that it transfers immediately on many 
packets one time. But passage in ether such, what synchronization is torn 
away frequently - in I be empty "is blown" on the minute and more... It is 
good, if program itself is regulate the quantity of personnel for one 
packet, depending on the condition of passage. Speed in essence was 500, 
sometimes 1000 and once saw 2000, but not for long. I think, it is 
worthwhile to still introduce initial soon into 200 or 300, and a dynamic 
change in the quantity of frames to the packet - is very desirable. And even 
on request Andy - make in the beginning of each transfer a rather short 
"preamble" in the form of average tone, let us say 200-2shch0msek - it will 
be useful for the simpler visual tuning and so that would manage in the 
transceivers to work out switching completely + ARU on the receiving side 
(if it slow). Thus far everything. We await new versions;)

 I above support all that described! As it is correct to advance level on 
the method. Where this strip after which is further not- not? It would be 
possible to add check-out ravine from the work of progi. What the developer 
saw as and under what conditions will be tested proga. We it threw down into 
the money box or where to nibut' still. Successes! Dmitry_
 Entire TREMENDOUS thanks;) ! To all questions it listened, I will think. 
Not some to otvechu only are later. I will soon lay out version with the 
anticipating tone. Dmitry_.

oct 2006 Date: 19 noys 2006 08:06:27 # Added tone in the beginning of each 
block - pure by the bearing length of 0,3 s. Furthermore, there was 
pererabotan sonic "cursor" - to happiness to the owners of cards with a 
maximum frequency of 44100 (see laying Preferences- Hardware) to take here - 
http://slil.ru/23429398 Dmitry_.
# Now some explanations on some questions:) 1. Monitor by packet certainly 
rough... It would like this plan:

 It came out so that not in all packets are transferred the numbers of 
subscribers. It is concrete, only in the demands to konnekt and in some 
potdverzhdeniyakh. But in essence numbers are not transferred for the 
savings of capacity. Therefore if two associate in the regime of chat room, 
then to the third observer it will not come out to see, who stirs with whom, 
this simply already is not in ether. So that here two outputs: either to 
place additional logic and to memorize the names of subscribers from the 
otmonitorennykh packets of konnekta or to change the size of packets (that 
is worse, since the loss of reverse compatability and capacity). By the way, 
into the buffer of exchange communications from the monitor of packets are 
copied, simply this there is no in pop-up menu, but hot key- that work..
. 2. I still: is it possible to make a transfer of "broadcasting" packet, 
well for the lighthouse in order not to loom by call, but as polozhenno 
lighthouse. But that was as follows: Rulez Reloaded Was under the call sign 
TEST and gave "infinite" Connect to WORLD. But if several WORLD- OV are at 
the frequency - the same porridge will come out. Is necessary some 
broadcasting packet so that let us say would be: WASIA ALL: The "lighthouse 
Of vasi Of pupkina" But already if someone it hears and 

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400?

[Andrew O'Brien]

I did manage to receive some raw data from John but not actual connections.



Andy K3UK



rfsm.gif
Description: GIF image

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400?

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi Per and the group,

First of all, I'm not an expert on this issue, but an curious novice who 
have just received the ham radio license. Therefore I'm not able to 
answer all the technical about the program. I came across this RFSM2400 
program when I was googling for new digital ham modes.

On this web side 
http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=25689&page=11
it was a Russian guy who had made something that looked like an amateur 
version of the 188-110A military radio system. I used 
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate Russian in to English. Some 
information about the software appeared also on the yahoo group 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hflink/

I have tested the program locally with some ham friends, and it seems 
very robust. I have also linked two PCs together and the reduced the 
audio level to try to figure out the minimum audio level the program is 
able to decode.
I know this is not the best way to test the soft ware. I have also 
decoded some weak signals from the Russians,  they seems to operate on 
this two frequencies 3589 LSB and  3.731,5 LSB.

Per if you would like to try this software,  I'm QRV on 3589 LSB this 
evening from 2030-2400 local time (GMT+1h).
You can download the latest the software from this web side 
http://home.broadpark.no/~saanes/rfsm2400_v04.zip

Best regard from Norway
LA5VNA Steinar















Per wrote:
>
> I would be interested in trying it as well!
> Are you guys QRV somewhere ?
>
> 73 de Per, sm0rwo
> --- Andrew O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> > Steinar, I downloaded it and have it "working" with
> > my rig, what frequencies
> > are people using this standard ?
> >
> > Andy K3UK
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Steinar Aanesland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >
> > . Have
> > > you tested the MIL-STD-188-110 PSK modem yet (
> > >
> >
> http://neurosis.hungry.com/~ben/radio/188-110/rfsm2400_v037.zip 
> )
> > ? It is
> > > really a nice piece of software.
> > >
> > > 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
> > > Norway
> > >
> >
> >
>
> __
> Sponsored Link
>
> Mortgage rates near 39yr lows.
> $310k for $999/mo. Calculate new payment!
> www.LowerMyBills.com/lre
>
>  

Re: [digitalradio] RFSM2400?

[Per]

I would be interested in trying it as well!
Are you guys QRV somewhere ?

73 de Per, sm0rwo
--- Andrew O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Steinar, I downloaded it and have it "working" with
> my rig, what frequencies 
> are people using this standard ?
> 
> Andy K3UK
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Steinar Aanesland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> . Have
> > you tested the MIL-STD-188-110 PSK modem yet (
> >
>
http://neurosis.hungry.com/~ben/radio/188-110/rfsm2400_v037.zip)
> ? It is
> > really a nice piece of software.
> >
> > 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
> > Norway
> >
> 
> 



 

Sponsored Link

Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. 
$310k for $999/mo. Calculate new payment! 
www.LowerMyBills.com/lre

[digitalradio] RFSM2400?

[Andrew O'Brien]

Steinar, I downloaded it and have it "working" with my rig, what frequencies 
are people using this standard ?

Andy K3UK


- Original Message - 
From: "Steinar Aanesland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
. Have
> you tested the MIL-STD-188-110 PSK modem yet (
> http://neurosis.hungry.com/~ben/radio/188-110/rfsm2400_v037.zip) ? It is
> really a nice piece of software.
>
> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
> Norway
>