Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal)
Les. I used the very latest version of Easypal but used the default settings for our quick test last night. I am an experienced user of Hampal, and even with that software there are a lot of useful features not always employed. You are right to point out the features of Easypal , I hope more people will use this software. As Rick mentioned , it would be interesting if something like Easypal had an option to fill the errors automatically on-the-fly in typical ARQ style. Just an option for people to try, the standard BSR/FIX method is useful for many other aspects of file transfers. Andy K3UK On Jan 26, 2008 2:02 AM, Leskep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re EasyPal Did you use the latest version from the KC1CS site? Did you use the RS encoding which is available in the program? Did you have one end in Repeater mode which would give you a Quasi ARQ type system? Did you use a transmission mode suitable for the band conditions at the time? There are many features in EasyPal which which are not well understood by many I feel you should have come up with better figures than you did for the tests There is also a difference in transmitting a compressed picture or sending the file as an Anyfile which is the complete - uncompressed file Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM . -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Les, This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind of testing other than perhaps calling a dummy station. In regard to your questions: 1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two. 2. The sampling rate is set to 48000. 3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a large number of different modems) and from the published information, the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems? Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest. But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the relative performance of the software modems of various types? Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well. I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna, but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than NBEMS. If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment. 73, Rick, KV9U Leskep wrote: Hi Rick Regarding RFSM2400/8000 I wonder if you both set up your sound card offsets in the program Options/Hardware This program does require a fairly correct sample rate setting on both TX and RX to achieve full speed On tests done here on a fairly quiet band on 40m and 80m before just before sunset there has been no problem to achieve speeds as the records show below BTW Our testing has been done with RFSM8000 which has the ability to work at bits per second The times shown below are in the afternoons on a relatively quiet band and over a distance of 250 klm for VK2KNC and 400 klm for VK2JN 'VK2KNC' accept MAIL-requests. - 4/11/2007 - 3:09:32 PM Receiving file '0101vlrg.jpg', compressed size 87920 bytes, from 'VK2KNC'... - 4/11/2007 - 3:10:01 PM File '0101vlrg.jpg' received succesfully, all time 406 sec, average speed 1930 (1730) bits/sec - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:01 PM Disconnected from 'VK2KNC' - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:15 PM Sending request for file 'stop7.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:46 PM Receiving file 'stop7.jpg', compressed size 15840 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:59 PM File 'stop7.jpg' received succesfully, all time 39 sec, average speed 3240 (3231) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:34:53 PM Sending request for file 'Recycle.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:32 PM Receiving file 'Recycle.jpg', compressed size 43945 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:45 PM File 'Recycle.jpg' received succesfully, all time 126 sec, average speed 2779 (2777) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:38:07 PM Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 18/11/2007 - 3:39:21 PM Sending request for file 'closeeyes5.jpg'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:27 PM Receiving file 'closeeyes5.jpg', compressed size 75482 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:38 PM File 'closeeyes5.jpg' received succesfully, all time 195 sec, average speed 3095 (3089) bits/sec - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:09 PM Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:54 PM Sending file 'Cycle24predictions.jpg', compressed size 65750 bytes (real size 76145 bytes), to 'VK2KNC'... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:17 PM Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM [I cut some server stuff out] Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM File
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
GM Rick, Several months ago I did some testing on HF with RFSM2400. We were able to transfer 4000 character files in ~40 secs. This is similar to what Les was able to achieve. Conditions were excellent then. Recently I was able to test with Chuck, AA5J on VHF and this time the throughput was similar to your numbers even though we had good signal conditions. I realize this does not clarify the throughput ability but it does show that it can achieve high speeds under certain conditions. I still do not know how deep in the mud it will go and still work. Regarding the tuning; we were able to achieve connects by tuning the transceiver dial to the point where the initial sync burst lined up with the red line in the 'Tuning to Signal' window during a connect. We tested the 3 khz wide mode and then the 2.4 khz mode. We were able to get more throughput on the narrower mode. I think this just says our SSB filters were not handling the wider mode well. No doubt we could have changed to wider filters (or FM mode) and gotten better results. I think the developers were up front that they would eventually charge for the package. I was surprised by the price too. It could be worth it if the FCC allows the higher rate, and if many people are using the software. There may be some competition if the ALE folks get something in place that is easy to use. I would love to see this mode in NBEMS for file transfer operations. Howard K5HB - Original Message From: Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:16:50 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Hi Les, This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind of testing other than perhaps calling a dummy station. In regard to your questions: 1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two. 2. The sampling rate is set to 48000. 3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a large number of different modems) and from the published information, the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems? Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest. But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the relative performance of the software modems of various types? Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well. I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna, but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than NBEMS. If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment. 73, Rick, KV9U Leskep wrote: Hi Rick Regarding RFSM2400/8000 I wonder if you both set up your sound card offsets in the program Options/Hardware This program does require a fairly correct sample rate setting on both TX and RX to achieve full speed On tests done here on a fairly quiet band on 40m and 80m before just before sunset there has been no problem to achieve speeds as the records show below BTW Our testing has been done with RFSM8000 which has the ability to work at bits per second The times shown below are in the afternoons on a relatively quiet band and over a distance of 250 klm for VK2KNC and 400 klm for VK2JN 'VK2KNC' accept MAIL-requests. - 4/11/2007 - 3:09:32 PM Receiving file '0101vlrg.jpg' , compressed size 87920 bytes, from 'VK2KNC'... - 4/11/2007 - 3:10:01 PM File '0101vlrg.jpg' received succesfully, all time 406 sec, average speed 1930 (1730) bits/sec - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:01 PM Disconnected from 'VK2KNC' - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:15 PM Sending request for file 'stop7.jpg'. .. - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:46 PM Receiving file 'stop7.jpg', compressed size 15840
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Upon reading the RFSM site information, it looks like they are not going to do further development on RFSM2400 and they indicate that there are bugs that they corrected when they continued on with development of the 8000 program. If they are actually able to sell the program to make it worthwhile enough to them to continue, especially for commercial use, then they may be able to do OK. But I don't see their product moving forward for ham use from this point on. It should have engendered some excitement considering that it was a breakthrough type of product, but I have not seen any real enthusiasm from hams, even hams outside the U.S. who can actually use this mode for text data as well as image. I am surprised that your performance was not that good on VHF where I would have expected it to do the best. 73, Rick, KV9U Howard Brown wrote: GM Rick, Several months ago I did some testing on HF with RFSM2400. We were able to transfer 4000 character files in ~40 secs. This is similar to what Les was able to achieve. Conditions were excellent then. Recently I was able to test with Chuck, AA5J on VHF and this time the throughput was similar to your numbers even though we had good signal conditions. I realize this does not clarify the throughput ability but it does show that it can achieve high speeds under certain conditions. I still do not know how deep in the mud it will go and still work. Regarding the tuning; we were able to achieve connects by tuning the transceiver dial to the point where the initial sync burst lined up with the red line in the 'Tuning to Signal' window during a connect. We tested the 3 khz wide mode and then the 2.4 khz mode. We were able to get more throughput on the narrower mode. I think this just says our SSB filters were not handling the wider mode well. No doubt we could have changed to wider filters (or FM mode) and gotten better results. I think the developers were up front that they would eventually charge for the package. I was surprised by the price too. It could be worth it if the FCC allows the higher rate, and if many people are using the software. There may be some competition if the ALE folks get something in place that is easy to use. I would love to see this mode in NBEMS for file transfer operations. Howard K5HB
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal)
Hi Andrew Everyone really should only now use EasyPal instead of Hampal and always the latest from the KC1CS site EasyPal can work in a sort of ARQ manner if one or all of the stations has the following options ticked Under Action --- Use Repeater To work as a Repeater ONE station should set the program up as a Repeater Under Repeater ---Activate as a base Repeater By using this method the station working the Repeater can send a file to the Repeater - which will automatically ask for a BSR if required or it will say File ok if it is received correctly The receiving station can ask for the file to be replayed if required Any non repeater station can ask for a Directory from the Repeater listing all the files in the Repeater directory and download the required file There is also a facility to Upload Messages/files to the Repeater directory automatically by clicking Repeater/File is saved to external Repeater [retick each time] When this is used the transmitted file will be automatically sent to the Repeater Folder Any other station may then download that file -after getting a Directory from the Repeater - You can even address that file when uploaded to a specific station who can Delete that file after receiving it It should be understood that MANY stations can take their turn at either sending files or just pictures to the repeater or downloading files/pictures from the repeater - When setup like this there is absolutely no need for anyone to be in attendance at the Repeater - it will do it all automatically when queries/requests are sent by a remote station When using EasyPal you should always check to see that you use the mode which is most suited to the path at the time of the day A modes generally on very quiet bands VHF ETC B modes on 20/30 m and above - Sometimes you may get away using slower A modes E modes generally on 40m and 80 m See under Action / Quick select TX mode for recommendations You should always use the RS encoding system in the program Encode 1,2,3,4 Select the encode to suit the conditions There is more that the program is and will be capable of doing but I hope this will answer some questions posed by some on todays email VK2DSG Les From: Andrew O'Brien Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:43 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal) Les. I used the very latest version of Easypal but used the default settings for our quick test last night. I am an experienced user of Hampal, and even with that software there are a lot of useful features not always employed. You are right to point out the features of Easypal , I hope more people will use this software. As Rick mentioned , it would be interesting if something like Easypal had an option to fill the errors automatically on-the-fly in typical ARQ style. Just an option for people to try, the standard BSR/FIX method is useful for many other aspects of file transfers. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick You could get the Free RADIOAMATEUR Trial Test version [for 30 day trial] and do some experiments with that in the higher bands - this will allow you to experiment up to 8000 bits per second in wide bandwidth or up to bits per second in normal SSB bandwidth on HF You should run a Sample rate test program like CheckSR etc at the sample rate of 48k and then enter these figures in the program under Options/Preferences/Hardware - good transfer speeds will still depend on BOTH ends having calibrated correctly If you do try the TRIAL software you will find that there are MANY other options available to you to use like Waterfall - Email Client - Beacon - Unconnected chat between like stations - compression - File transfer RESUME if file uncompleted at last session and other things Now to sum things up Amateurs have the Freeware version .498 to use at no cost for file transfer and local mail at a speed of up to 2666 bits per second If you want a permanent Mail-Client version of RFSM8000 it costs $60 US If you want to be a Mail Server Current price is $180 US [This is the only issue I have with the pricing - in order to encourage the use I believe the Server software should be available at no cost to a few SELECTED stations in various countries who would be interested in supplying the Server facilities for others to use - remember that this is an ongoing cost the them to supply these facilities to other amateurs] There are many other amateur software writers wanting $50 US for their software so I guess inflation has caught up in the requirement for $60 for this program - hihi I also realise that there are many other Amateur writers that supply their software for FREE and I applaud this - what would all of us retired amateurs do to keep our minds active if we didnt have all these things to do and toys to play with Yes there are groups here in VK testing RFSM8000 on VHF but I have no reports on hand regarding this at the moment Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:16 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Hi Les, This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind of testing other than perhaps calling a dummy station. In regard to your questions: 1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two. 2. The sampling rate is set to 48000. 3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a large number of different modems) and from the published information, the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems? Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest. But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the relative performance of the software modems of various types? Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well. I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna, but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than NBEMS. If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick see comments below 5 spaces in Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:38 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM I was using the 10/Nov/07BETA of EasyPal which I downloaded fairly recently. I noticed that there are images that are sent with an RS 1 through 4 and then I think it converts them to jpg? I could not open those files with other programs. Perhaps you an give us some tutorial on it. The RS turned out to be Reed-Solomon coding so at least we know what is being used. Always use the latest from the KC1CS site You cannot Open an .rsx file - it is the means to transfer the file encoded and is automatically displayed in its original form at the receiving end Since it was the first time I ever tried EasyPal for transmitting, I don't have much background on this. I don't have a lot of interest in SSTV, per se, but I am using image as a surrogate for the data that I would rather be sending. EasyPal may be used for normal data transfer by loading as an ANYFILE but of course this is limited by the file size and the length of time to to transfer it depending on the mode and conditions existing at the time Because of an active group here in the midwestern part of the U.S. on daytime 40 meter SSTV (7173 kHz) I will sometimes leave SSTV programs on the frequency and automatically receive some of the images when signals are good. When you use the repeater function does that work with one to many as in nets? Or is that intended for one to one? Yes it is one to many - each station individually asking for any corrections to the original transmission by the repeater Can you send chat along with the image? Or at least send chat in between images? You can sent chat by Waterfall text or you can directly send a text message in a separate screen --- ActionSend text I did not change anything for conditions and used whatever the defaults are. What are some of the options that you recommend? See prior post Based upon the conditions, and my experience with receiving (not transmitting) DRM type of OFDM data, the roughly 1/6 throughput seems about right. When conditions are very good, such as NVIS daytime on 40 meters or close to NVIS anyway, with maybe 5 or 6 S units between the noise and the signal, it is posible to receive the majority of the packets (blocks) on the first try. Use the correct mode and always use encoding suitable for the noise on the path The question becomes: if you had two modems, one using single tone high baud rate vs. one using multi tone OFDM, which one would perform the best in varying conditions. Maybe the answer is to have available BOTH and use the one which is most suitable at the time to suit the conditions Various documents on the internet suggest that there is not much difference, but there is at least one that does show a difference with computer simulations in favor of the multi tone modems. I tend to discount computer simulations as not adequate and prefer the real world under many different conditions that gives you a more accurate practical feel for what can and can not be done. That same document, done as a PhD paper, admitted that some waveforms that worked well on computer simulation, actually did not work at all in an actual real world test. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Les, While any of us could use the trial product, there are many other competing interests to work with these days and it is difficult to spend much time with something that is unlikely to be a successful product in ham radio. Even if hams could use the modem in the text digital portions of the bands here in the U.S. and even if it was free and supported, it might still languish. But if it carries a cost, it will almost certainly not succeed. The world has changed so much, even in the past couple of years. I have seen superb programs discontinued or released into the public domain because no one would buy them anymore. From what I can tell, the RFSM product seems like a very good one, but may be more of a commercial product. There are a few hams, but I suspect a decreasing number, who will pay money for certain kinds of programs, particularly logging programs that they have bought into years ago and want to continue using because they are familiar with them. But other software authors such as Dave Bernstein, have made that quite unnecessary with the DX Lab Suite. Same with Patricks mostly free Multipsk, and same for Simon's HRD/DM780 programs. Now we have VBDigi/Flarq, EasyPal, WinDRM, and so many others that do specific tasks. The important thing to keep in mind is not what I would pay for certain kinds of software, but what will the other hams pay. Even if I valued RFSM8000 as the best product in its niche, and right now that seems true, what really matters is will other hams in my area and region be willing to buy this product? I will wager than none will. None at all. And if a good sized number do not have this modem, then my modem will be of no value. It is difficult enough now to make contacts with many of the new modes because we are spread into such specialized niches. It has gotten to the point that some of us have to resort to the internet to coordinate contacts:( If I want to use this technology for emergency communications as well as for fun and enjoyment, it has to be open source or at least freely available so that enough users will at least consider it. Even then the choices are becoming quite intimidating to new entrants into digital radio. And then consider what most digital hams use for their digital modes? Mostly PSK31, SSTV, and RTTY and not much else as a percentage of digital activity. 73, Rick, KV9U Leskep wrote: Hi Rick You could get the Free RADIOAMATEUR Trial Test version [for 30 day trial] and do some experiments with that in the higher bands - this will allow you to experiment up to 8000 bits per second in wide bandwidth or up to bits per second in normal SSB bandwidth on HF You should run a Sample rate test program like CheckSR etc at the sample rate of 48k and then enter these figures in the program under Options/Preferences/Hardware - good transfer speeds will still depend on BOTH ends having calibrated correctly If you do try the TRIAL software you will find that there are MANY other options available to you to use like Waterfall - Email Client - Beacon - Unconnected chat between like stations - compression - File transfer RESUME if file uncompleted at last session and other things Now to sum things up Amateurs have the Freeware version .498 to use at no cost for file transfer and local mail at a speed of up to 2666 bits per second If you want a permanent Mail-Client version of RFSM8000 it costs $60 US If you want to be a Mail Server Current price is $180 US [This is the only issue I have with the pricing - in order to encourage the use I believe the Server software should be available at no cost to a few SELECTED stations in various countries who would be interested in supplying the Server facilities for others to use - remember that this is an ongoing cost the them to supply these facilities to other amateurs] There are many other amateur software writers wanting $50 US for their software so I guess inflation has caught up in the requirement for $60 for this program - hihi I also realise that there are many other Amateur writers that supply their software for FREE and I applaud this - what would all of us retired amateurs do to keep our minds active if we didnt have all these things to do and toys to play with Yes there are groups here in VK testing RFSM8000 on VHF but I have no reports on hand regarding this at the moment Les VK2DSG
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick Unfortunately - you are right Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:00 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Hi Les, While any of us could use the trial product, there are many other competing interests to work with these days and it is difficult to spend much time with something that is unlikely to be a successful product in ham radio. Even if hams could use the modem in the text digital portions of the bands here in the U.S. and even if it was free and supported, it might still languish. But if it carries a cost, it will almost certainly not succeed. The world has changed so much, even in the past couple of years. I have seen superb programs discontinued or released into the public domain because no one would buy them anymore. From what I can tell, the RFSM product seems like a very good one, but may be more of a commercial product. There are a few hams, but I suspect a decreasing number, who will pay money for certain kinds of programs, particularly logging programs that they have bought into years ago and want to continue using because they are familiar with them. But other software authors such as Dave Bernstein, have made that quite unnecessary with the DX Lab Suite. Same with Patricks mostly free Multipsk, and same for Simon's HRD/DM780 programs. Now we have VBDigi/Flarq, EasyPal, WinDRM, and so many others that do specific tasks. The important thing to keep in mind is not what I would pay for certain kinds of software, but what will the other hams pay. Even if I valued RFSM8000 as the best product in its niche, and right now that seems true, what really matters is will other hams in my area and region be willing to buy this product? I will wager than none will. None at all. And if a good sized number do not have this modem, then my modem will be of no value. It is difficult enough now to make contacts with many of the new modes because we are spread into such specialized niches. It has gotten to the point that some of us have to resort to the internet to coordinate contacts:( If I want to use this technology for emergency communications as well as for fun and enjoyment, it has to be open source or at least freely available so that enough users will at least consider it. Even then the choices are becoming quite intimidating to new entrants into digital radio. And then consider what most digital hams use for their digital modes? Mostly PSK31, SSTV, and RTTY and not much else as a percentage of digital activity. 73, Rick, KV9U
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Hi Rick Regarding RFSM2400/8000 I wonder if you both set up your sound card offsets in the program Options/Hardware This program does require a fairly correct sample rate setting on both TX and RX to achieve full speed On tests done here on a fairly quiet band on 40m and 80m before just before sunset there has been no problem to achieve speeds as the records show below BTW Our testing has been done with RFSM8000 which has the ability to work at bits per second The times shown below are in the afternoons on a relatively quiet band and over a distance of 250 klm for VK2KNC and 400 klm for VK2JN 'VK2KNC' accept MAIL-requests. - 4/11/2007 - 3:09:32 PM Receiving file '0101vlrg.jpg', compressed size 87920 bytes, from 'VK2KNC'... - 4/11/2007 - 3:10:01 PM File '0101vlrg.jpg' received succesfully, all time 406 sec, average speed 1930 (1730) bits/sec - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:01 PM Disconnected from 'VK2KNC' - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:15 PM Sending request for file 'stop7.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:46 PM Receiving file 'stop7.jpg', compressed size 15840 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:59 PM File 'stop7.jpg' received succesfully, all time 39 sec, average speed 3240 (3231) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:34:53 PM Sending request for file 'Recycle.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:32 PM Receiving file 'Recycle.jpg', compressed size 43945 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:45 PM File 'Recycle.jpg' received succesfully, all time 126 sec, average speed 2779 (2777) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:38:07 PM Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 18/11/2007 - 3:39:21 PM Sending request for file 'closeeyes5.jpg'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:27 PM Receiving file 'closeeyes5.jpg', compressed size 75482 bytes, from 'VK2JN'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:38 PM File 'closeeyes5.jpg' received succesfully, all time 195 sec, average speed 3095 (3089) bits/sec - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:09 PM Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:54 PM Sending file 'Cycle24predictions.jpg', compressed size 65750 bytes (real size 76145 bytes), to 'VK2KNC'... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:17 PM Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM [I cut some server stuff out] Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM File 'Cycle24predictions.jpg' sended succesfully, all time 05:08 (mm:ss), average speed 1975 (1705) bits/sec - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:25 PM You might like to compare some of the above figures taken from the sys_log.txt from RFSM8000 Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Andy, K3UK and I had a very interesting experience this evening testing several sound card modes on the lower end of the 40 meter voice/image portion of the band. I have been wanting to do some comparison of the single tone high speed MIL-STD/FED-STD/STANAG modem in the RFSM2400 program with a multi tone OFDM modem. Signals were not that good between our locations, with deep QSB at times. Which was good for testing purposes. Andy running 100 watts and I running barefoot at times and up to about 250 watts when running digital (more on SSB). Once a minor glitch was taken care of, we discovered that the program is extremely easy to use. Just enter the station you wish to connect with and the negotiation is done by the software. There are some additional windows that can be opened that provide feedback on the actions being done. One window can be opened that includes an oscilloscope like screen that displays what appears to be a real time constellation of the received signal. Very impressive. Since we can only use this technology for sending image/fax here in the U.S., we elected to send some moderate sized jpeg images. I sent Andy a file that was 28521 bytes and it took 731 seconds to make the transfer which figures out to 312 bps. The software gives you this information upon completion of the file transfer. Andy then sent me a file of 7323 bytes which took 197 seconds or 295 bps. The software will display the received S/N ratio on screen and between each packet will update the transmitting station with how well the signal is (or isn't) being received with a S/N number. Even when I was only running 25 watts and turned off the amplifier, there was some throughput but it was reduced. The general report that I saw was 5 db S/N without and 10 dB with the amplifier. I would have
Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
Re EasyPal Did you use the latest version from the KC1CS site? Did you use the RS encoding which is available in the program? Did you have one end in Repeater mode which would give you a Quasi ARQ type system? Did you use a transmission mode suitable for the band conditions at the time? There are many features in EasyPal which which are not well understood by many I feel you should have come up with better figures than you did for the tests There is also a difference in transmitting a compressed picture or sending the file as an Anyfile which is the complete - uncompressed file Les VK2DSG From: Rick Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:49 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM Recent Activity a.. 11New Members b.. 1New Photos c.. 7New Files Visit Your Group Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. Yahoo! Groups Parenting Zone Share experiences with other parents. Special K Group on Yahoo! Groups Learn how others are losing pounds. .
