RE: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
And the mis-information continues: I did not state that Spread Spectrum does comprise a means of encrypting. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM mailto:les...@veenstras.com les...@veenstras.com mailto:m0...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com mailto:k1...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of W2XJ Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:43 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions Spread Spectrum does not unto itself comprise a means of encrypting information although encryption often accompanies it. On 7/13/10 3:50 PM, Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com wrote: The rules also make it clear that SS (or any other coding system) cannot be used to hid the meaning. They used to demand disclosure of the encoding system for compliance, but now, seem happy if the decode software (but not the source code) is freely available to those who want to listen. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com mailto:les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com mailto:m0...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com mailto:k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bg...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:45 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions sorry, the fine print is giving me fits. It's obviously 97.3 (c)(9). I'm thinking another reason for the restrictions - SS is also a very good means of encryption. The previous rules on SS required use of a particular type of SS and the key number was specified in the rule.. Probably in a pre 1999 ARRL rule book , if anyone really needed to look. There might exist a method of finding old versions of the CFR online, but I have not looked. - Original Message - From: Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:26:57 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions § 97.3 Definitions. (b) The definitions of technical symbols used in this part are: (9) UHF (ultra-high frequency). The frequency range 3003000 MHz. -- § 97.3 Definitions. (c) The following terms are used in this part to indicate emission types. Refer to § 2.201 of the FCC Rules, Emission, modulation and transmission characteristics, for information on emission type designators. (8) SS. Spread spectrum emissions using bandwidth-expansion modulation emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; X as the second symbol; X as the third symbol. § 2.201 Emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics. The following system of designating emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics shall be employed. (a) Emissions are designated according to their classification and their necessary bandwidth. (b) A minimum of three symbols are used to describe the basic characteristics of radio waves. Emissions are classified and symbolized according to the following characteristics: (1) First symboltype of modulation of the main character; (2) Second symbolnature of signal( s) modulating the main carrier; (3) Third symboltype of information to be transmitted. (c) First Symboltypes of modulation of the main carrier: (2) Emission
[digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
§ 97.3 Definitions. (b) The definitions of technical symbols used in this part are: (9) UHF (ultra-high frequency). The frequency range 300–3000 MHz. -- § 97.3 Definitions. (c) The following terms are used in this part to indicate emission types. Refer to § 2.201 of the FCC Rules, Emission, modulation and transmission characteristics, for information on emission type designators. (8) SS. Spread spectrum emissions using bandwidth-expansion modulation emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; X as the second symbol; X as the third symbol. § 2.201 Emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics. The following system of designating emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics shall be employed. (a) Emissions are designated according to their classification and their necessary bandwidth. (b) A minimum of three symbols are used to describe the basic characteristics of radio waves. Emissions are classified and symbolized according to the following characteristics: (1) First symbol—type of modulation of the main character; (2) Second symbol—nature of signal( s) modulating the main carrier; (3) Third symbol—type of information to be transmitted. (c) First Symbol—types of modulation of the main carrier: (2) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude-modulated (including cases where sub-carriers are angle-modulated):. —Double-sideband ... A —Single-sideband, full carrier . H —Single-sideband, reduced or variable level carrier R —Single-sideband, suppressed carrier .. J —Vestigial sideband C (3) Emission in which the main carrier is angle-modulated:. —Frequency modulation . F —Phase modulation . G NOTE: Whenever frequency modulation ‘‘F’’ is indicated, Phase modulation ‘‘G’’ is also acceptable. (4) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude and anglemodulated either simultaneously or in a pre-established sequence .. D Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM mailto:les...@veenstras.com les...@veenstras.com mailto:m0...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com mailto:k1...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bg...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:52 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA? sorry, my typo. It's in 97.3. (b)(9)
Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
sorry, the fine print is giving me fits. It's obviously 97.3 (c)(9). I'm thinking another reason for the restrictions - SS is also a very good means of encryption. The previous rules on SS required use of a particular type of SS and the key number was specified in the rule.. Probably in a pre 1999 ARRL rule book , if anyone really needed to look. There might exist a method of finding old versions of the CFR online, but I have not looked. - Original Message - From: Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:26:57 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions § 97.3 Definitions. (b) The definitions of technical symbols used in this part are: (9) UHF (ultra-high frequency). The frequency range 300–3000 MHz. -- § 97.3 Definitions. (c) The following terms are used in this part to indicate emission types. Refer to § 2.201 of the FCC Rules, Emission, modulation and transmission characteristics, for information on emission type designators. (8) SS. Spread spectrum emissions using bandwidth-expansion modulation emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; X as the second symbol; X as the third symbol. § 2.201 Emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics. The following system of designating emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics shall be employed. (a) Emissions are designated according to their classification and their necessary bandwidth. (b) A minimum of three symbols are used to describe the basic characteristics of radio waves. Emissions are classified and symbolized according to the following characteristics: (1) First symbol—type of modulation of the main character; (2) Second symbol—nature of signal( s) modulating the main carrier; (3) Third symbol—type of information to be transmitted. (c) First Symbol—types of modulation of the main carrier: (2) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude-modulated (including cases where sub-carriers are angle-modulated):. —Double-sideband ... A —Single-sideband, full carrier . H —Single-sideband, reduced or variable level carrier R —Single-sideband, suppressed carrier .. J —Vestigial sideband C (3) Emission in which the main carrier is angle-modulated:. —Frequency modulation . F —Phase modulation . G N OTE : Whenever frequency modulation ‘‘F’’ is indicated, Phase modulation ‘‘G’’ is also acceptable. (4) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude and anglemodulated either simultaneously or in a pre-established sequence .. D Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bg...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:52 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA? sorry, my typo. It's in 97.3. (b)(9)
Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
bg...@comcast.net wrote: I'm thinking another reason for the restrictions - SS is also a very good means of encryption. The previous rules on SS required use of a particular type of SS and the key number was specified in the rule.. Probably in a pre 1999 ARRL rule book , if anyone really needed to look. There might exist a method of finding old versions of the CFR online, but I have not looked. This is absolutely not the case. I know from first hand experience that all you have to do is be prepared to present any coding sequence upon demand. And that coding (viterbi, pseudo-random, whatever) does not constitute encryption to the FCC's. This was resolved back in the early packet days and the WA4DSY 56k modems. This is true of many of the other modes/modems. And was also ruled upon by the FCC due to challenges by the anti-Pactor crowd. Have fun, Alan km4ba
Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
Spread Spectrum does not unto itself comprise a means of encrypting information although encryption often accompanies it. On 7/13/10 3:50 PM, Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com wrote: The rules also make it clear that SS (or any other coding system) cannot be used to hid the meaning. They used to demand disclosure of the encoding system for compliance, but now, seem happy if the decode software (but not the source code) is freely available to those who want to listen. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com mailto:les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com mailto:m0...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com mailto:k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bg...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:45 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions sorry, the fine print is giving me fits. It's obviously 97.3 (c)(9). I'm thinking another reason for the restrictions - SS is also a very good means of encryption. The previous rules on SS required use of a particular type of SS and the key number was specified in the rule.. Probably in a pre 1999 ARRL rule book , if anyone really needed to look. There might exist a method of finding old versions of the CFR online, but I have not looked. - Original Message - From: Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:26:57 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions § 97.3 Definitions. (b) The definitions of technical symbols used in this part are: (9) UHF (ultra-high frequency). The frequency range 3003000 MHz. -- § 97.3 Definitions. (c) The following terms are used in this part to indicate emission types. Refer to § 2.201 of the FCC Rules, Emission, modulation and transmission characteristics, for information on emission type designators. (8) SS. Spread spectrum emissions using bandwidth-expansion modulation emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; X as the second symbol; X as the third symbol. § 2.201 Emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics. The following system of designating emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics shall be employed. (a) Emissions are designated according to their classification and their necessary bandwidth. (b) A minimum of three symbols are used to describe the basic characteristics of radio waves. Emissions are classified and symbolized according to the following characteristics: (1) First symboltype of modulation of the main character; (2) Second symbolnature of signal( s) modulating the main carrier; (3) Third symboltype of information to be transmitted. (c) First Symboltypes of modulation of the main carrier: (2) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude-modulated (including cases where sub-carriers are angle-modulated):. Double-sideband ... A Single-sideband, full carrier . H Single-sideband, reduced or variable level carrier R Single-sideband, suppressed carrier .. J Vestigial sideband C (3) Emission in which the main carrier is angle-modulated:. Frequency modulation . F Phase modulation . G NOTE: Whenever frequency modulation F¹¹ is indicated, Phase modulation G¹¹ is also acceptable. (4) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude and anglemodulated either simultaneously or in a pre-established sequence .. D Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica
Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
OK does ROS encrypt or not? I though if something was encrypted one would need some means provided to a limited group, to allow and enable them to decode the message. Do we have that in ROS? We need the complete package receiving part included. Does the transmitting station provide us with such a key every time? Does Jose ROS perhaps e-mails it to us?? And when the day comes he will not do that any longer? At the beginning of a QSO? At the beginning of a transmission? Ever? Never? I know it would be so much easier if Jose told us these points! And many have said this before Just asking questions that are relevant heaving seen comments here on this board over the last couple of months, concerning SS 73 Rein W6SZ -Original Message- From: W2XJ w...@w2xj.net Sent: Jul 13, 2010 4:42 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions Spread Spectrum does not unto itself comprise a means of encrypting information although encryption often accompanies it. On 7/13/10 3:50 PM, Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com wrote: The rules also make it clear that SS (or any other coding system) cannot be used to hid the meaning. They used to demand disclosure of the encoding system for compliance, but now, seem happy if the decode software (but not the source code) is freely available to those who want to listen. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com mailto:les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com mailto:m0...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com mailto:k1...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: PSC 45 Box 781 APO AE 09468 USA UK Postal Address: Dawn Cottage Norwood, Harrogate HG3 1SD, UK Telephones: Office: +44-(0)1423-846-385 Home: +44-(0)1943-880-963 Guam Cell: +1-671-788-5654 UK Cell: +44-(0)7716-298-224 US Cell: +1-240-425-7335 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bg...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:45 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions sorry, the fine print is giving me fits. It's obviously 97.3 (c)(9). I'm thinking another reason for the restrictions - SS is also a very good means of encryption. The previous rules on SS required use of a particular type of SS and the key number was specified in the rule.. Probably in a pre 1999 ARRL rule book , if anyone really needed to look. There might exist a method of finding old versions of the CFR online, but I have not looked. - Original Message - From: Lester Veenstra les...@veenstras.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:26:57 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions § 97.3 Definitions. (b) The definitions of technical symbols used in this part are: (9) UHF (ultra-high frequency). The frequency range 3003000 MHz. -- § 97.3 Definitions. (c) The following terms are used in this part to indicate emission types. Refer to § 2.201 of the FCC Rules, Emission, modulation and transmission characteristics, for information on emission type designators. (8) SS. Spread spectrum emissions using bandwidth-expansion modulation emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; X as the second symbol; X as the third symbol. § 2.201 Emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics. The following system of designating emission, modulation, and transmission characteristics shall be employed. (a) Emissions are designated according to their classification and their necessary bandwidth. (b) A minimum of three symbols are used to describe the basic characteristics of radio waves. Emissions are classified and symbolized according to the following characteristics: (1) First symboltype of modulation of the main character; (2) Second symbolnature of signal( s) modulating the main carrier; (3) Third symboltype of information to be transmitted. (c) First Symboltypes of modulation of the main carrier: (2) Emission in which the main carrier is amplitude-modulated (including cases where sub-carriers are angle-modulated):. Double-sideband ... A Single-sideband, full carrier . H Single-sideband, reduced or variable level carrier R Single-sideband
Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions [1 Attachment]
Delighted I am to find the 1998 version of 47CFR97.311 on the GPO website, attached. We are both maybe correct. The FCC prescribed the method, the operator filled in the variables, which he kept in a log and logged it every time s/he changed a variable. - Original Message - From: Alan Barrow ml9...@pinztrek.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:03:01 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions bg...@comcast.net wrote: I'm thinking another reason for the restrictions - SS is also a very good means of encryption. The previous rules on SS required use of a particular type of SS and the key number was specified in the rule.. Probably in a pre 1999 ARRL rule book , if anyone really needed to look. There might exist a method of finding old versions of the CFR online, but I have not looked. This is absolutely not the case. I know from first hand experience that all you have to do is be prepared to present any coding sequence upon demand. And that coding (viterbi, pseudo-random, whatever) does not constitute encryption to the FCC's. This was resolved back in the early packet days and the WA4DSY 56k modems. This is true of many of the other modes/modems. And was also ruled upon by the FCC due to challenges by the anti-Pactor crowd. Have fun, Alan km4ba http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and Spots all in one (resize to suit) Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] SS and the FCC definitions
bg...@comcast.net wrote: [Attachment(s) #TopText from bg...@comcast.net included below] Delighted I am to find the 1998 version of 47CFR97.311 on the GPO website, attached. We are both maybe correct. The FCC prescribed the method, the operator filled in the variables, which he kept in a log and logged it every time s/he changed a variable. Yep, I agree! Your information is newer, but very much follows the intent of the FCC expressed for the interactions I was aware of. I found their approach quite reasonable. There are those who assume any mode they cannot copy with free software is encrypted and illegal, and that is for sure not the case as well. There was a separate ruling on that one if I recall. Have fun, Alan km4ba
