Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
Hello Alan, But since CR/LF treatment, etc all impact this type of thing there is no guarantee yet. I have a doubt. Do you know if LF character (CHR(10)) is really managed for HFLink. Multipsk does not transmit LF as it is not useful for text (CR is sufficient and is worth for CR/LF). But if LF is really necessary, I can, of course, transmit this character. 73 Patrick ** Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End Rick W. wrote: why I am not able to send messages using DTM and DBM ARQ. Especially helpful would be those who are using Multipsk. Hello Rick, As suggested to you more than once, the documentation for using bbslink is at http://hflink.net/bbslink . The steps for using DBM ARQ are clearly listed. Others are using these instructions with no difficulty. DTM is not supported yet, and it's not been an urgent need. Most users just use DBM ARQ, which works but it still in development. (All of which has been discussed with you previously) Down the road we may add DTM support to support the few HW ALE controllers which have DTM but not DBM ARQ. But we will be adding HW TNC support as a higher priority. Link via ALE, then use the HW TNC (or SW) mode of your choice to send the traffic. I plan to test and confirm usage of Multi-PSK, but as explained before, Multi-PSK's new functionality has not been tested yet. If the DBM ARQ's are truly compatible, it should work. Data is data. But since CR/LF treatment, etc all impact this type of thing there is no guarantee yet. That said, it will be great if it works. If it does not, my suggestion is to use the supported PC-ALE or MARS-ALE tool as we know it works correctly. As others have pointed out, the faster soundcard modes are very dependent on both soundcard frequency accuracy as well as rig accuracy. On more than one occasion you have been observed operating 100 Hz off frequency, which can explain your difficulty. (That was also pointed out to you in past emails). Unlike PSK which has no absolute frequency need, other modes do require this. This is not unique to ALE, SSTV, RTTY, etc are all dependent accurate frequency. Having a new soundcard does not guarantee this, the only way to tell is via a calibrated system. There are multiple methods to confirm this, several are documented on HFLink. I know Multi-PSK has this capability also. Again, based on your expectations I'd suggest looking into Airmail and Winlink. It's production ready, answers many of your concerns about ALE efficiency usage, and has a very easy to use GUI. Since you do not like or recognize the advantage of scanning, just pop on that NVIS link and send your traffic. Have fun, Alan km4ba
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
Hello Rick, Patrick has been unable to figure out the problem. In fact, between the DXLab Commander program and Multipsk program, there was added code to insure that the thumbwheel is not activated and yet it still causes this Have you tried to check the No mouse wheel option in the Transceiver window. About the DXLAB or HRD interface with Multipsk, here is something which can, perhaps, help (extract from the help file): About Ham Radio Deluxe (software which author is Simon HB9DRV) Thanks to Dave (AA6YQ), Ray (N0FY) and Simon Brown (HB9DRV), it is now possible, with the bridge DXLab_HRD_Bridge104 (http://www.dxlabsuite.com/HRD_Bridge/DXLab_HRD_Bridge104.zip) to interface Multipsk and Ham Radio Deluxe (HRD), this to control your transceiver from Multipsk through HRD. This bridge permits to HRD to emulate Commander. ... Specific instructions for Ham Radio Deluxe (HRD) For the ones using HRD, you will have to: * start HRD from Simon Brown (HB9DRV), When starting, HRD proposes you to give the parameters of your transceiver before connecting this one (in the goal to extract the frequency reception). Once done, HRD controls your transceiver, * start DXLab_HRD_Bridge104.exe from Dave Bernstein (AA6YQ), * start Multipsk and click on the Transceiver button. As soon as you do this, you will see the label Multipsk is connected with Commander (or HRD). So it's an emulation of Commander. Then you will do as usual to control the XCVR from Multipsk. It seems that the order of start of the different softwares has little importance. * Note: If LF is necessary for the HFLinknet management (see my email to Alan), I will sent you a test version with transmission of the LF character. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End Alan, This is EXACTLY what I was looking for! I am not sure why I did not have it accessed previously, but I suspect it is because I only used the home page for hflink.com assuming I would find everything. I went back right now and tried every hyperlink and quite honestly am not able to find the bbslink from the home page. Is this possible to put more prominently? I know of at least one other ham who has also been trying to send messages and he was able to finally get it to work, but it took quite a trial. He indicated that there may be an issue with something about putting a space in some part of the message (using Multipsk) but I did not understand just where his reference was in the message sequence. So hope to hear back on this. As you may have seen today, just before I received your message I was able to get a message through the NJ7C server with confirmation that it went through. Having said that, it is now after 0200Z (9 pm), and it has not come through as e-mail as yet. Hopefully the syntax was correct and I did use SMTP so that it would go to my mrfarm address here at Misty Ridge Farm. Now on the issue of being 100 Hz off frequency. This is not the sound card which should be close to 1 Hz accuracy after calibration. One of the unresolved problems with Multipsk, and I have brought this up a number of times so I apologize to those who have heard this before, is that at least with my ICOM 756 Pro 2, when in the D digital mode and you bump the thumbwheel, with the mouse cursor in the program window, you are dropped out of D mode and into regular mode. This also turns on any mike compression, changes the tuning rate (faster) and shifts frequency. Yeah, it is a real problem and in an emergency would be unacceptable. But right now this is for test purposes. Patrick has been unable to figure out the problem. In fact, between the DXLab Commander program and Multipsk program, there was added code to insure that the thumbwheel is not activated and yet it still causes this effect. I have asked if others have this problem and have had no response so perhaps I am the only one with this problem. I don't know. I use Multipsk quite a lot since it has modes no other program offers, particularly FAE which is a killer app for sound card digital ARQ, but few are interested in ARQ modes from what I can tell. When I use Ham Radio Deluxe with Digital Master 780, not only does it not have the D mode problem, but the programming allows me to use mouse control of the D mode directly from screen buttons. Very cool. So it is possible to make the software do this correctly. Of course DM780 is unlikely to have any ALE support, but it would be nice to have. Even more important would be to have advanced technology such as the FAE modes. As far as Winlink 2000, I would have no way to access it in a practical manner. I am not sure what you mean by a NVIS link. Steve
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
I have been able to send DBM messages through and get confirmation from the HFLink server station that they were processed through the Winlink 2000 system server, (e.g., one in Perth), so it would seem that the syntax and the way I am formatting them is OK. Not sure why it did not do work previously, because as it turns out, the commands that I was using are the correct commands based upon the bbslink site. Having said this, I do not actually receive the messages via e-mail to my main e-mail account. I have had one on 6-16-08 come through, but that may have been an AMD type. I can't recall. Nothing has come through in the past day or so with the messages that I had sent. I know that the Winlink 2000 system has had e-mail server problems from time to time and sometimes messages can take a few days to get the recipient, but this should be quite rare. I plan to do additional testing and will report on what happens. 73, Rick, KV9U Patrick Lindecker wrote: I have a doubt. Do you know if LF character (CHR(10)) is really managed for HFLink. Multipsk does not transmit LF as it is not useful for text (CR is sufficient and is worth for CR/LF). But if LF is really necessary, I can, of course, transmit this character. 73 Patrick
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
This REALLY works! Either I missed this or confused it with Dave Bernstein's similar button in the Commander control program. So for any other ICOM users who have had this problem, you should be able to solve it now. I think that I am able to properly format the messages to the HFLink net system, as I have at least several times had the message come back that my message had been forwarded to the Winlink 2000 server, etc. But as I mentioned earlier, the messages have not been coming back through to my regular e-mail which is not my winlink address. I will try other addresses and see if that works. Thanks again for your tremendous and patient help on this. 73, Rick, KV9U Patrick Lindecker wrote: Hello Rick, Have you tried to check the No mouse wheel option in the Transceiver window. About the DXLAB or HRD interface with Multipsk, here is something which can, perhaps, help (extract from the help file): About Ham Radio Deluxe (software which author is Simon HB9DRV) Thanks to Dave (AA6YQ), Ray (N0FY) and Simon Brown (HB9DRV), it is now possible, with the bridge DXLab_HRD_Bridge104 (http://www.dxlabsuite.com/HRD_Bridge/DXLab_HRD_Bridge104.zip) to interface Multipsk and Ham Radio Deluxe (HRD), this to control your transceiver from Multipsk through HRD. This bridge permits to HRD to emulate Commander. ... Specific instructions for Ham Radio Deluxe (HRD) For the ones using HRD, you will have to: * start HRD from Simon Brown (HB9DRV), When starting, HRD proposes you to give the parameters of your transceiver before connecting this one (in the goal to extract the frequency reception). Once done, HRD controls your transceiver, * start DXLab_HRD_Bridge104.exe from Dave Bernstein (AA6YQ), * start Multipsk and click on the Transceiver button. As soon as you do this, you will see the label Multipsk is connected with Commander (or HRD). So it's an emulation of Commander. Then you will do as usual to control the XCVR from Multipsk. It seems that the order of start of the different softwares has little importance. * Note: If LF is necessary for the HFLinknet management (see my email to Alan), I will sent you a test version with transmission of the LF character. 73 Patrick
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
Hello Rick, why I am not able to send messages using DTM and DBM ARQ. Especially helpful would be those who are using Multipsk. We could see what happens step by step either in the Multipsk Yahoo group or directly through mails (f6cte at free.fr) . 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Rick W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End I am not sure of why you wrote this as tips for using your system, but I can assure you it did not help me or anyone else in attempting to send messages. I am speaking of the longer messages, not the SMS type messages that some of us have been able to get through using AMD. After spending a number of hours and getting minimal results, it does get to a point of either asking for help or moving on and having to write the system off as unworkable (at least for me). Many of us have different goals but we can still use the same system. Perhaps I don't use your system in the way that you envision. Most would call that experimentation. You seem to be hostile to this. That is unfortunate. Our vision is to find those methods that actually work for our needs. I am not even involved in using beaconing, since is not necessary for using the system in the way that we are using it. Even if WD8ARZ does not wish to help me in figuring out the correct procedure, I would appreciate help from any other source in determining why I am not able to send messages using DTM and DBM ARQ. Especially helpful would be those who are using Multipsk. Thanks in advance. Rick, KV9U WD8ARZ wrote: Rick, sometimes I get the impression you feel you are not being heard. I assure you that you are. However there is a difference between being heard and not agreeing with you. You are welcome to have your opinion (such as whither ale is a beacon or not), but it is not backed up by the years of activity with Ale and with the FCC on this matter. I am simply not going to rehash what has already been covered on this topic ad nausem already. Those more talented and experienced then me have communicated with you many times to work out your issues, apparently to no avail. It is clear that the HFN Pilot Ale Stations / System has chosen a goal that is very worth while. It has become one of the few organizations in the world that are focused on a global picture of connectedness, mainly efforts to help the other frontline EMCOMM organizations talk to each other. I think that is the key to our future with this effort. The HFN pilot system has become the killer app for ALE in ham radio. To just be able to send a simple short message on setting up a schedule due to an event, and re-establish connection with other groups or individuals is a critical and useful function. It is clear that the Ale system is not a whole scale messaging system. Other systems are. It is also clear that there are those that can and have communicated with Ale, as detailed in the recent Report: ALE HFN Activity for Global Simulated Emergency Test- 3 May 2008. Last point: When some one, or a group, starts an activity of interest, they obviously wish to have a focus, a goal, an intentional path of activities to follow. Those who are interested in it and can constructively support it, can do so if they wish. Those that dont or cant support it, or just wish to being a distraction that is out side the intent of the group, should move along. Those that persist in thrusting their points time after time after time when many others have attempted to resolve those points with them, eventually wear out their welcome. To continue to do so even when not in the group in question, comes off as if there is a vendetta to carry out. You are obviously very talented, have used your skills well for amateur radio for a long time. It is unfortunate that a smooth match up hasnt happened here, but I am sure you are able to continue on as needed with the rest of your amateur radio life. Good Luck, best to you, but I am not convinced it is technical help you are reaching for anymore. I am now closing out this topic from this end and moving on. My apologies to others for the bandwidth. 73 from Bill - WD8ARZ - Original Message - From: Rick W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips The sound card should be within a Hz or so. It is a new Soundblaster variant. I use Multipsk as the software program. I don't think that I put PC-ALE back on the XP box after reloading XP to survive a dual boot mess with Linux. I might try putting PC-ALE back on again if I just can not get anything to work with Multipsk. One other station that has been experimenting as I have indicated to me
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
Thanks, Patrick, It may just be something that I have been missing. See you on the Multipsk reflector. It is always possible that some one has had success and can share that information. 73, Rick, KV9U Patrick Lindecker wrote: Hello Rick, why I am not able to send messages using DTM and DBM ARQ. Especially helpful would be those who are using Multipsk. We could see what happens step by step either in the Multipsk Yahoo group or directly through mails (f6cte at free.fr) . 73 Patrick
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
Rick W. wrote: why I am not able to send messages using DTM and DBM ARQ. Especially helpful would be those who are using Multipsk. Hello Rick, As suggested to you more than once, the documentation for using bbslink is at http://hflink.net/bbslink . The steps for using DBM ARQ are clearly listed. Others are using these instructions with no difficulty. DTM is not supported yet, and it's not been an urgent need. Most users just use DBM ARQ, which works but it still in development. (All of which has been discussed with you previously) Down the road we may add DTM support to support the few HW ALE controllers which have DTM but not DBM ARQ. But we will be adding HW TNC support as a higher priority. Link via ALE, then use the HW TNC (or SW) mode of your choice to send the traffic. I plan to test and confirm usage of Multi-PSK, but as explained before, Multi-PSK's new functionality has not been tested yet. If the DBM ARQ's are truly compatible, it should work. Data is data. But since CR/LF treatment, etc all impact this type of thing there is no guarantee yet. That said, it will be great if it works. If it does not, my suggestion is to use the supported PC-ALE or MARS-ALE tool as we know it works correctly. As others have pointed out, the faster soundcard modes are very dependent on both soundcard frequency accuracy as well as rig accuracy. On more than one occasion you have been observed operating 100 Hz off frequency, which can explain your difficulty. (That was also pointed out to you in past emails). Unlike PSK which has no absolute frequency need, other modes do require this. This is not unique to ALE, SSTV, RTTY, etc are all dependent accurate frequency. Having a new soundcard does not guarantee this, the only way to tell is via a calibrated system. There are multiple methods to confirm this, several are documented on HFLink. I know Multi-PSK has this capability also. Again, based on your expectations I'd suggest looking into Airmail and Winlink. It's production ready, answers many of your concerns about ALE efficiency usage, and has a very easy to use GUI. Since you do not like or recognize the advantage of scanning, just pop on that NVIS link and send your traffic. Have fun, Alan km4ba
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
Alan, This is EXACTLY what I was looking for! I am not sure why I did not have it accessed previously, but I suspect it is because I only used the home page for hflink.com assuming I would find everything. I went back right now and tried every hyperlink and quite honestly am not able to find the bbslink from the home page. Is this possible to put more prominently? I know of at least one other ham who has also been trying to send messages and he was able to finally get it to work, but it took quite a trial. He indicated that there may be an issue with something about putting a space in some part of the message (using Multipsk) but I did not understand just where his reference was in the message sequence. So hope to hear back on this. As you may have seen today, just before I received your message I was able to get a message through the NJ7C server with confirmation that it went through. Having said that, it is now after 0200Z (9 pm), and it has not come through as e-mail as yet. Hopefully the syntax was correct and I did use SMTP so that it would go to my mrfarm address here at Misty Ridge Farm. Now on the issue of being 100 Hz off frequency. This is not the sound card which should be close to 1 Hz accuracy after calibration. One of the unresolved problems with Multipsk, and I have brought this up a number of times so I apologize to those who have heard this before, is that at least with my ICOM 756 Pro 2, when in the D digital mode and you bump the thumbwheel, with the mouse cursor in the program window, you are dropped out of D mode and into regular mode. This also turns on any mike compression, changes the tuning rate (faster) and shifts frequency. Yeah, it is a real problem and in an emergency would be unacceptable. But right now this is for test purposes. Patrick has been unable to figure out the problem. In fact, between the DXLab Commander program and Multipsk program, there was added code to insure that the thumbwheel is not activated and yet it still causes this effect. I have asked if others have this problem and have had no response so perhaps I am the only one with this problem. I don't know. I use Multipsk quite a lot since it has modes no other program offers, particularly FAE which is a killer app for sound card digital ARQ, but few are interested in ARQ modes from what I can tell. When I use Ham Radio Deluxe with Digital Master 780, not only does it not have the D mode problem, but the programming allows me to use mouse control of the D mode directly from screen buttons. Very cool. So it is possible to make the software do this correctly. Of course DM780 is unlikely to have any ALE support, but it would be nice to have. Even more important would be to have advanced technology such as the FAE modes. As far as Winlink 2000, I would have no way to access it in a practical manner. I am not sure what you mean by a NVIS link. Steve Waterman was very opposed to my suggestion of increasing any NVIS capability of their system as you folks are with your system. I don't understand this, but its your system and you have to decide on the goals that are important to you. Along with the great majority of digital oriented hams, I prefer sound card modes and have no plans to move back toward legacy hardware. While VHF Packet could be used in some areas, it is not a weak signal mode and can only go a short distance and thus no servers would be accessible from this area on a consistent basis. Anything we would set up here would likely go down if the internet failed. One future change that they are making is to add a way to forward traffic between stations connected to an RMSpacket server, even when the internet goes down. This is something I asked for years ago and was told that was not their plan to do so, but moving to provide this capability will mean that those servers, will effectively be like hubbing emergency PMBO's (now RMS) for VHF. This is a welcome change in their thinking. Now if they ever move again toward building on the already invented high speed SCAMP mode (which was shelved three years ago), and include a fall back weak signal mode, they will have a technology that would make it possible to run 1000 wpm during moderately good conditions on HF and even faster on VHF, using sound card modes rather than legacy hardware modes. Speaking from experience, it is quite a blast to run 1000 wpm on HF using a sound card ARQ mode! In the meantime, the advantage of the ALE servers is that while some what of a legacy mode, compared to the new technology we have with weak signal sound card modes, it is currently the only automatic e-mail server system, using sound card technology, that can work with MS Windows. The the other reason that I am using the system is to see how it works on a practical basis and eventually will be included in some of my published information. I want to give it a fair test and hopefully hear of more hams
Re: [digitalradio] Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips - The End
I am not sure of why you wrote this as tips for using your system, but I can assure you it did not help me or anyone else in attempting to send messages. I am speaking of the longer messages, not the SMS type messages that some of us have been able to get through using AMD. After spending a number of hours and getting minimal results, it does get to a point of either asking for help or moving on and having to write the system off as unworkable (at least for me). Many of us have different goals but we can still use the same system. Perhaps I don't use your system in the way that you envision. Most would call that experimentation. You seem to be hostile to this. That is unfortunate. Our vision is to find those methods that actually work for our needs. I am not even involved in using beaconing, since is not necessary for using the system in the way that we are using it. Even if WD8ARZ does not wish to help me in figuring out the correct procedure, I would appreciate help from any other source in determining why I am not able to send messages using DTM and DBM ARQ. Especially helpful would be those who are using Multipsk. Thanks in advance. Rick, KV9U WD8ARZ wrote: Rick, sometimes I get the impression you feel you are not being heard. I assure you that you are. However there is a difference between being heard and not agreeing with you. You are welcome to have your opinion (such as whither ale is a beacon or not), but it is not backed up by the years of activity with Ale and with the FCC on this matter. I am simply not going to rehash what has already been covered on this topic ad nausem already. Those more talented and experienced then me have communicated with you many times to work out your issues, apparently to no avail. It is clear that the HFN Pilot Ale Stations / System has chosen a goal that is very worth while. It has become one of the few organizations in the world that are focused on a global picture of connectedness, mainly efforts to help the other frontline EMCOMM organizations talk to each other. I think that is the key to our future with this effort. The HFN pilot system has become the killer app for ALE in ham radio. To just be able to send a simple short message on setting up a schedule due to an event, and re-establish connection with other groups or individuals is a critical and useful function. It is clear that the Ale system is not a whole scale messaging system. Other systems are. It is also clear that there are those that can and have communicated with Ale, as detailed in the recent Report: ALE HFN Activity for Global Simulated Emergency Test- 3 May 2008. Last point: When some one, or a group, starts an activity of interest, they obviously wish to have a focus, a goal, an intentional path of activities to follow. Those who are interested in it and can constructively support it, can do so if they wish. Those that dont or cant support it, or just wish to being a distraction that is out side the intent of the group, should move along. Those that persist in thrusting their points time after time after time when many others have attempted to resolve those points with them, eventually wear out their welcome. To continue to do so even when not in the group in question, comes off as if there is a vendetta to carry out. You are obviously very talented, have used your skills well for amateur radio for a long time. It is unfortunate that a smooth match up hasnt happened here, but I am sure you are able to continue on as needed with the rest of your amateur radio life. Good Luck, best to you, but I am not convinced it is technical help you are reaching for anymore. I am now closing out this topic from this end and moving on. My apologies to others for the bandwidth. 73 from Bill - WD8ARZ - Original Message - From: Rick W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [hfdec] HFLinknet Feedback and Tips The sound card should be within a Hz or so. It is a new Soundblaster variant. I use Multipsk as the software program. I don't think that I put PC-ALE back on the XP box after reloading XP to survive a dual boot mess with Linux. I might try putting PC-ALE back on again if I just can not get anything to work with Multipsk. One other station that has been experimenting as I have indicated to me that there is some kind of issue with a needed space but I am not clear on that. If anyone has had good success with sending e-mail messages, it would be helpful to show the format you used, especially with Multipsk. I may be doing it wrong. I have been on Channel Zero in recent time, but did not receive any help. The HFLink forums Bonnie removed me from a few months back when I asked for help in contacting the FCC to get some clear understanding of the rules when it comes to the stations transmitting
