Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that is a nice feature. It is now up-to Florian perhaps to voice his opinion? it would be good to see this idea taken to the next level as it to me seems to be a win win situation, Suppose we could always vote on it. Quickly what sort of approach would need to be taken by TDF if they where to approach the Zotero project? beyond me anyway I just want to be able to take the credit that I was the one who suggested the partnership - I would much rather not get tied up with all the bureaucratic nonsense that goes on with negotiating deals like that, besides it is beyond me I feel I am unworthy of even implementing this idea. another perhaps barrier is the fact that I have no knowledge in negotiating even the meanest of deals (except for Art - that's where I kind of excel) Regards Anthony :) On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, at 09:05 PM, NoOp wrote: On 08/14/2012 05:23 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote: On 08/14/2012 05:09 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote: .. * Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes for Zotero You are referring to the client component. The server is not free, open source. Really?? These might be of interest: http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code https://github.com/zotero/dataserver From the source code: license.txt: quote Zotero Data Server Copyright © 2010 Center for History and New Media George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA http://zotero.org The Center for History and New Media distributes the Zotero Data Server source code under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3 (AGPLv3). The Zotero name is a registered trademark of George Mason University. See http://zotero.org/trademark for more information. Third-party copyright in this distribution is noted where applicable. All rights not expressly granted are reserved. /quote http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code You can setup a server to store Zotero files, but it's not a trivial process and it lacks any and all ZOtero social features/web front-end. It's even advised against (for corruption risks) by Zotero. Agree regarding setup: http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/dataserver_setup Also might be of interest: https://chronicle.com/blogs/profhacker/make-your-own-zotero-webdav-server-and-access-your-zotero-attachments-anywhere/38526 http://blog.holz.ca/2011/11/phpzoterowebdav-installation/ http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/20339/ [phpZoteroWebDAV 2.0 - php based WebDAV server and libra] ... BTW: Congrats on the new baby boy! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- antiso...@myopera.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
On 08/16/2012 06:29 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote: Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that is a nice feature. [...] IMO such features are essential, and an important part of why you'd use Zotero. I wish their server component evolves into a federated, open-data, FLOSS solution, though. That's something where the TDF can have influence on the Zotero project. Of course this isn't to say this should block such discussion, but keeping in line with LibreOffice context (FLOSS), such goals are possible to influence and reach. Such features/server dependency are the default, so it's always on for users doing research - they are always part of a group, and share references among them. In that sense it's essential. Users won't notice how this ties them to Zotero's infrastructure until their reference database grows, which confronts them to buying storage. The current Zotero implementation is pre-configured to use their server which includes document storage and social features implemented in a web front-end. The document-storage part can be configured to use other servers, not so for the other features. Let's not minimize this. Here are a few reasons why the server+social component side should be free, open source: - Anyone could setup their own (important in large deployments/ gov't / schools / etc where bandwidth usage and owning your data matters) - Zotero's own servers wouldn't need to scale up to such deployments or even work fully w/o Internet access - Zotero's pricing for storage may not fit every deployment's audience - Implementing local storage/sync on a server is not trivial for end-users. Not using sync at all is not a clear alternative. - Zotero's clients may at some time stop offering third-party storage options altogether - Zotero's servers are a single point of failure which won't help adoption when they fail - Zotero could add local installation / support to their offering, or even certify service providers. Competition among such providers would indirectly help LibO adoption. If anyone is going to Zotero with a proposal for collaboration with TDF/LibO, I wish they ask/mention the above. If I can be of any assistance in such discussions, I'll gladly make time. Cheers, Fabian Rodriguez http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca -- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
Hello Anthony, Le jeudi 16 août 2012 à 12:29 +0200, Anthony Easthope a écrit : Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that is a nice feature. It is now up-to Florian perhaps to voice his opinion? hmm... why? :-) it would be good to see this idea taken to the next level as it to me seems to be a win win situation, Suppose we could always vote on it. So what could be done is you proposing this to the BoD on board-discuss, and come up with a detailed proposal about this. Quickly what sort of approach would need to be taken by TDF if they where to approach the Zotero project? beyond me anyway I just want to be able to take the credit that I was the one who suggested the partnership - I would much rather not get tied up with all the bureaucratic nonsense that goes on with negotiating deals like that, besides it is beyond me I feel I am unworthy of even implementing this idea. another perhaps barrier is the fact that I have no knowledge in negotiating even the meanest of deals (except for Art - that's where I kind of excel) Well, taking credit works on some level if you implement the idea and contribute time, efforts, artwork, code, documentation, etc. , otherwise, ideas are very cheap. :-) Best, Charles. Regards Anthony :) On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, at 09:05 PM, NoOp wrote: On 08/14/2012 05:23 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote: On 08/14/2012 05:09 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote: .. * Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes for Zotero You are referring to the client component. The server is not free, open source. Really?? These might be of interest: http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code https://github.com/zotero/dataserver From the source code: license.txt: quote Zotero Data Server Copyright © 2010 Center for History and New Media George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA http://zotero.org The Center for History and New Media distributes the Zotero Data Server source code under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3 (AGPLv3). The Zotero name is a registered trademark of George Mason University. See http://zotero.org/trademark for more information. Third-party copyright in this distribution is noted where applicable. All rights not expressly granted are reserved. /quote http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code You can setup a server to store Zotero files, but it's not a trivial process and it lacks any and all ZOtero social features/web front-end. It's even advised against (for corruption risks) by Zotero. Agree regarding setup: http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/dataserver_setup Also might be of interest: https://chronicle.com/blogs/profhacker/make-your-own-zotero-webdav-server-and-access-your-zotero-attachments-anywhere/38526 http://blog.holz.ca/2011/11/phpzoterowebdav-installation/ http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/20339/ [phpZoteroWebDAV 2.0 - php based WebDAV server and libra] ... BTW: Congrats on the new baby boy! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- antiso...@myopera.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
Hello Fabian, Le jeudi 16 août 2012 à 07:43 -0400, Fabian Rodriguez a écrit : On 08/16/2012 06:29 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote: Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that is a nice feature. [...] IMO such features are essential, and an important part of why you'd use Zotero. I wish their server component evolves into a federated, open-data, FLOSS solution, though. That's something where the TDF can have influence on the Zotero project. Of course this isn't to say this should block such discussion, but keeping in line with LibreOffice context (FLOSS), such goals are possible to influence and reach. Such features/server dependency are the default, so it's always on for users doing research - they are always part of a group, and share references among them. In that sense it's essential. Users won't notice how this ties them to Zotero's infrastructure until their reference database grows, which confronts them to buying storage. The current Zotero implementation is pre-configured to use their server which includes document storage and social features implemented in a web front-end. The document-storage part can be configured to use other servers, not so for the other features. Let's not minimize this. Here are a few reasons why the server+social component side should be free, open source: - Anyone could setup their own (important in large deployments/ gov't / schools / etc where bandwidth usage and owning your data matters) - Zotero's own servers wouldn't need to scale up to such deployments or even work fully w/o Internet access - Zotero's pricing for storage may not fit every deployment's audience - Implementing local storage/sync on a server is not trivial for end-users. Not using sync at all is not a clear alternative. - Zotero's clients may at some time stop offering third-party storage options altogether - Zotero's servers are a single point of failure which won't help adoption when they fail - Zotero could add local installation / support to their offering, or even certify service providers. Competition among such providers would indirectly help LibO adoption. If anyone is going to Zotero with a proposal for collaboration with TDF/LibO, I wish they ask/mention the above. If I can be of any assistance in such discussions, I'll gladly make time. See my reply to Anthony, but basically, what needs to happen is an additional server development on the Zotero side as well as a upgrade to the LibreOffice extension (am I forgetting something?) So you need someone developing it. As for any sort of partnership/formal stuff, that would need to be evaluated by marketing and by the BoD. My -candid- feeling about this is that there's potential, now it's up to volunteers to pick up the development workload and perhaps ping Zotero about this. If there's no interest, then we should not spend our nights on this. Best, Charles. Cheers, Fabian Rodriguez http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca -- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
Righto, I will make a submission but it will need some guidance in the process for submission. I can tell you it is not going to happen right away as I have to go away but once I am back I'm sure that I can make a start on the pitch. infact thinking about it it should be a community idea so we should all contribute! :) On Thu, 16 Aug 2012, at 02:50 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hello Fabian, Le jeudi 16 août 2012 à 07:43 -0400, Fabian Rodriguez a écrit : On 08/16/2012 06:29 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote: Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that is a nice feature. [...] IMO such features are essential, and an important part of why you'd use Zotero. I wish their server component evolves into a federated, open-data, FLOSS solution, though. That's something where the TDF can have influence on the Zotero project. Of course this isn't to say this should block such discussion, but keeping in line with LibreOffice context (FLOSS), such goals are possible to influence and reach. Such features/server dependency are the default, so it's always on for users doing research - they are always part of a group, and share references among them. In that sense it's essential. Users won't notice how this ties them to Zotero's infrastructure until their reference database grows, which confronts them to buying storage. The current Zotero implementation is pre-configured to use their server which includes document storage and social features implemented in a web front-end. The document-storage part can be configured to use other servers, not so for the other features. Let's not minimize this. Here are a few reasons why the server+social component side should be free, open source: - Anyone could setup their own (important in large deployments/ gov't / schools / etc where bandwidth usage and owning your data matters) - Zotero's own servers wouldn't need to scale up to such deployments or even work fully w/o Internet access - Zotero's pricing for storage may not fit every deployment's audience - Implementing local storage/sync on a server is not trivial for end-users. Not using sync at all is not a clear alternative. - Zotero's clients may at some time stop offering third-party storage options altogether - Zotero's servers are a single point of failure which won't help adoption when they fail - Zotero could add local installation / support to their offering, or even certify service providers. Competition among such providers would indirectly help LibO adoption. If anyone is going to Zotero with a proposal for collaboration with TDF/LibO, I wish they ask/mention the above. If I can be of any assistance in such discussions, I'll gladly make time. See my reply to Anthony, but basically, what needs to happen is an additional server development on the Zotero side as well as a upgrade to the LibreOffice extension (am I forgetting something?) So you need someone developing it. As for any sort of partnership/formal stuff, that would need to be evaluated by marketing and by the BoD. My -candid- feeling about this is that there's potential, now it's up to volunteers to pick up the development workload and perhaps ping Zotero about this. If there's no interest, then we should not spend our nights on this. Best, Charles. Cheers, Fabian Rodriguez http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca -- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- antiso...@myopera.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
On 08/14/2012 05:23 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote: On 08/14/2012 05:09 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote: .. * Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes for Zotero You are referring to the client component. The server is not free, open source. Really?? These might be of interest: http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code https://github.com/zotero/dataserver From the source code: license.txt: quote Zotero Data Server Copyright © 2010 Center for History and New Media George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA http://zotero.org The Center for History and New Media distributes the Zotero Data Server source code under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3 (AGPLv3). The Zotero name is a registered trademark of George Mason University. See http://zotero.org/trademark for more information. Third-party copyright in this distribution is noted where applicable. All rights not expressly granted are reserved. /quote http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code You can setup a server to store Zotero files, but it's not a trivial process and it lacks any and all ZOtero social features/web front-end. It's even advised against (for corruption risks) by Zotero. Agree regarding setup: http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/dataserver_setup Also might be of interest: https://chronicle.com/blogs/profhacker/make-your-own-zotero-webdav-server-and-access-your-zotero-attachments-anywhere/38526 http://blog.holz.ca/2011/11/phpzoterowebdav-installation/ http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/20339/ [phpZoteroWebDAV 2.0 - php based WebDAV server and libra] ... BTW: Congrats on the new baby boy! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]
Hi Fabian et al Le 2012-08-14 08:23, Fabian Rodriguez a écrit : The above may be best discussed/addressed quickly on the marketing mailing list (this will surely catch Marc Paré's attention, an extraordinary contributor there). I suggested we talk about it here as most of the people who use these extensions are on this list (in particular yourself with respect to Zotero). ... ahem ... and thanks for the compliment. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
