Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Hi Julia - The process is such: 1. Visitor reads an executive summary of a new study. 2. To get the full study, visitor must click a link that our stakeholder wishes to say "Read full study" 3. The link loads a form which the visitor must fill out in order to, "read full study" It's what I hear our teams here called "gated assets". We have several similar situations such as with our Trial Download products. The "other" purpose is internal: To collect as many 'leads' as possible for our field marketing team. Thus, currently, the form is quite long, asking - and requiring - a lot of information (name, phone, email, address, etc.). The issues I'm running into in our organization is that our field marketing team currently "owns" every form that is posted to our site, thus their needs for both a clean lead database as well as gathering as many leads as possible outweighs the needs of other groups who don't care about leads in the same manner. My goal as the UX person here is to start gathering valid supporting information that helps us to determine the "why" behind what we put on the site so that we can measure the results. Not sure if that addressed your question. In the meantime, I've gotten word that one stakeholder has gotten the OK to propose a form solution for their context. I will be involved in that discussion, which is a huge first step. :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Jennifer, Can you please elaborate on the original purpose of that section of the website? I'd like to better understand the desired result the your stakeholder is willing to achieve. Is it really that the visitor is forced to fill out the form in order to download the paper? Or, is the paper given out to the visitor in order for them to fill the form? 1) If the purpose is to fill out the form, then the described solution is 100% valid. The paper is only needed to attract the visitors and motivate them to fill the form. * This could be done in order to conduct research about different segments of your visitors, gather more data about browsing scenarios, initiate viral marketing and tons of other reasons. 2) If the purpose is to download the paper, then you might want to make the process as much simple and slight as possible. I think it is Ok to say "Read study" for that sort of pages. It certainly is not "sign up" nor "log in". So, what would you suggest? Saying "Fill in this form to download our paper"? I agree that nowadays many websites behave the same way, so it might have became sort of standard for certain segments of visitors. Anyways... as a compromise, you might want run an A/B test and simply measure the bottom line results. Of course, that may be done after you find out the purpose of those pages as I described above. Good luck, Julia Slavin Israel Tour Online http://www.israeltour-online.com . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Jared - It does, really :) Thanks. I know I sounded sort of "rant-ish", so I appreciate the guidance, and I love both the 'beans-in-noses' analogy as well as your questioning method. I certainly will not lose sleep over it, though now I may have dreams of beans getting stuck in my nose ;) -Jennifer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:45 PM, jennifer wolfgang wrote: Rather, I'm in a situation where I am the sole internal UX person at a company that though it's been in business for over 20 years, has internal processes that don't yet gel with what we UX practitioners understand to be the most useful in designing an easy-to-use website. Jennifer, This is the First Law of Consulting (true whether internal or external): You can't stop people from sticking beans up their nose. If someone is intent in sticking a bean up their nose, no amount of discussion or argument will convince them to do otherwise. The bean will go up the nose and the best you can do, as a consultant, is wait until its over and ask, "So, how is that working for you?" This is all about perspective. Picking one's battles. Some battles just aren't worth the fight. This sounds like a real beans-and-noses scenario. You can try to talk them out of it, but my guess is it'll be a futile effort. The best you can do is wait until it's over and ask if it's working for them. Given that, if I were working on this effort, I might start a discussion around "How will we know if it's working?" There's a sales technique known as an assumptive question -- a question that assumes the customer is thinking aggressively about their problem. It serves the dual purpose of showing respect while pointing out a potential issue. I might use an assumptive questions here like, "You've probably seen the research in MarketingSherpa and other places that say that many of these types of form intercepts can cause significant drop-offs in signups. What percentage of dropoffs will we consider to be acceptable?" and "The research on these types of forms show that many of the leads that come in are falsified (just to get the PDF) or unqualified. What percentage of these types of leads will we consider acceptable?" They probably haven't got an answer, but just by asking it, you've started a conversation about the consequences of the decision. Inotherwords, "What will sticking the bean up your nose feel like?" and "How much pain are you willing to tolerate?" It gives you a chance to talk about measurement techniques and possible preventative options (such as testing up front). They still may go ahead and do it, but now you have a context to discuss how, as a team, y'all will measure the success of the effort. No matter what happens, I'm betting that the sun will continue to rise each morning on its designated schedule. So, I wouldn't lose any sleep on it. Hope this helps, Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: @jmspool Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
> ...the sole internal UX person at a company that though it's been in business for over 20 years... I can definitely appreciate the frustration that comes with working within an entrenched system and veteran engineers/developers that are used to a certain way of doing things and don't necessarily care about your "artsy" ideas. And I agree, you definitely have to pick your battles, and hopefully let the data you accumulate from usability speak for itself. One way to get coworkers who might be skeptical of the value of UX is to invite them to watch some usability testing, which can be a very eye opening experience. Best wishes! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Thanks again, all for the advice. I must say, though I agree with Joshua and Christopher (as well as others) about getting the data to support or dispel the notion that the behavior is truly acceptable, the situation we're in is much like what Caroline suggested in her last response: sometimes it is just the way it is. Rather, I'm in a situation where I am the sole internal UX person at a company that though it's been in business for over 20 years, has internal processes that don't yet gel with what we UX practitioners understand to be the most useful in designing an easy-to-use website. The group I'm in is making slow progress in that direction, but for the most part, every meaty interaction design project that I see float by me is only that in *my* eyes. It's a constant, "choose your battle" situation, in which I'm fighting fires, not studying what's causing them in order to keep them at bay. Our team is trying to make progress, but it's a large shift in internal processes that needs to occur from the top down, and we're trying to weave UX into that as we go. -Jennifer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
On 11 Aug 2009, at 11:29, Mike Myles wrote: [snip] If a link says, "Read article," or "Download file," I darn well expect to get that result. Otherwise say, "Sign up to access articles," or something of that nature. [snip] The download/view option is especially pernicious for some expert users when it's styled to look like a link. I did a test once where there were a bunch of "view blah (PDF)" links. The expert users alt-clicked to automatically download rather than read the document inline. They then carried on with other things - only to find out later that they'd downloaded a bunch of HTML forms :-) Cheers, Adrian -- http://quietstars.com - twitter.com/adrianh - delicious.com/adrianh Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
On Aug 11, 2009, at 2:26 PM, jennifer wolfgang wrote: FYI, what I just heard from the stakeholder is that "this is an understood expectation" from the types of people who even get to this page. That it is essentially industry standard to not tell them there's a form; they understand that is the process. "understood expectation" "industry standard" "they understand" When stakeholders start saying things like this, you need to stop immediately and say "Ok, this is an important issue. We need to verify this assumption before proceeding" and set up a few user tests to get someone on camera. Record what they do and put this stuff to rest. If, as a designer, you let stakeholders get away with blanket statements like this to justify less than ideal user experiences, you're fighting a losing battle. Use data as your arbiter...don't let anecdotes or assumptions drive how you do your job. It's a disservice to you and your users. Now, I don't know if that is true or not as I've not been given any data to support it, but that's what it's come down to. At least I'm furthering my knowledge with all of your help here :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Your stakeholder may say "it's an industry standard," but (1) that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, and (2) are users for that particular industry all satisfied with the current state of affairs (and does the stakeholder actually know)? Perhaps a more transparent, less deceitful user experience on the stakeholder's site will act as a differentiator for their organization, maybe even nudging the de facto industry standard in a more user-friendly direction. I think a good compromise would be to leave the form on its own page, but label the button such that the user won't be surprised when they see a form on the next page. Then again, some stakeholders may insist that their preconceived solution be implemented, and after you've shown them some alternatives that you think would be better and they still insist on their solution, sometimes you just have to live with the sub-optimal solution (as frustrating as that may be). Good luck! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
>From jennifer wolfgang > > FYI, what I just heard from the stakeholder is that "this is an > understood expectation" from the types of people who even get to > this page. That it is essentially industry standard to not tell them > there's a form; they understand that is the process. You know, the stakeholder might be right. Sometimes it's just best to go with the flow, after making an appropriate (i.e. not excessive) level of fuss. Ideally, you'd then come right back into the conversation with: "Sure, and of course we'll have the opportunity to double-check when we do the usability testing". Or you may simply have to wait until you can examine the drop-off rates and the quality of the data collected. Or it could be that the content is so compelling that users will put up with anything. Many a bad form/bad form process has survived apparently successfully because of reasons like that. For example, try wrestling with many of the sites that provide access to academic journals. Keep cheerful! Caroline Jarrett www.formsthatwork.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
FYI, what I just heard from the stakeholder is that "this is an understood expectation" from the types of people who even get to this page. That it is essentially industry standard to not tell them there's a form; they understand that is the process. Now, I don't know if that is true or not as I've not been given any data to support it, but that's what it's come down to. At least I'm furthering my knowledge with all of your help here :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Caroline - thanks for the swift reply. I'm about to head into a meeting about this page, so it is very helpful. I was also considering the form on the same page may possibly be just as uninviting. And, in our case, it's a bit long (they want all sorts of data). Mike - I completely agree with your comments. For me, it is about doing what we can to create the appropriate expectation. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Jennifer, I think you're 100% correct in suggesting an alternative to the proposed design. Speaking just as a user of the web, rather than a IxD practitioner, I can tell you that would tick me off! When I've had that sort of thing happen to me I will almost always just say, "forget it," and not bother going any further. The issue is not that someone wants my information - I get it, nothing is truly free. The problem is the dishonesty. If a link says, "Read article," or "Download file," I darn well expect to get that result. Otherwise say, "Sign up to access articles," or something of that nature. I've found the key to good interactions - between people, people and website, applications, businesses, etc, are expectations. What does each participant expect, and are those expectations met? If you lie by omission (i.e. I'm not telling you ahead of time there is a form to fill out first) then you have guaranteed to not meet the expectations of the other party in the interaction. It's simply bad practice as a person, a business, or a designer to knowingly mislead. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - it's far too common. And on the scale of dishonesty in business these days this hardly qualifies as a minor infraction. But that's not an excuse to do the wrong thing. Tell your client to entice with honesty. Customers will appreciate it, and happy customers are repeat customers. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44570 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Jennifer Wolfgang: > The process that our stakeholder wants is > to have a page with, say, > an executive summary to 'entice' > people to then click on a link > that then takes the user to a form page. > > Unfortunately, that link says only, "Read study". > It does not in any way establish the expectation > that the user will need to fill out a form. ... > My suggestion has been to put the form > on the same page of the executive summary > as it allows the user to understand the function > clearly / up front without having to be surprised > (which may / may not occur, without testing, I don't know). I've repeatedly found in usability testing that users are surprised and disappointed when they click on a link to get something, and instead are faced with a form. This undermines the relationship between the users and your organisation, and makes them noticeably less likely to fill in the form and less willing to divulge accurate personal information if they do fill it in. Putting it more bluntly: they are more likely to lie. (Similarly, they don't like it at all when they click on a link that's expecting a form, such as 'apply now', and get faced with a page of text to read). In our book "Forms that work", I describe the best practice here as "give users a small reward: a form when they expect it". And the corollary is, don't give them a form when they don't expect it. Your suggestion could work. The problem with pages with forms on them is that they look like forms. So users might react badly as they might not read the executive summary. Or maybe if the form is short and the summary is written well enough, you'd be OK. Another suggestion would be to label the link something like: "Sign up now to read study" or "Register (free) to read study" which signals that the form is coming. Hope this helps Best Caroline Jarrett "Forms that work: Designing web forms for usability" foreword by Steve Krug www.formsthatwork.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Forms as gates to further information
Hi all - I've been tasked recently with producing pages that serve as access points for visitors to either view or download more content (be it HTML or PDF). The process that our stakeholder wants is to have a page with, say, an executive summary to 'entice' people to then click on a link that then takes the user to a form page. Unfortunately, that link says only, "Read study". It does not in any way establish the expectation that the user will need to fill out a form. It's gated. My suggestion has been to put the form on the same page of the executive summary as it allows the user to understand the function clearly / up front without having to be surprised (which may / may not occur, without testing, I don't know). Ideas? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
