Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo, Open Source GIS, Open Hardware, Open (Geo)Data in Agriculture - examples wanted.

[P Kishor]

Hi Peter,

Sure, talk to the farmers about hardware, geodata, yadda yadda, all that stuff 
that is so 2016. But also talk to them about open source seeds :)

http://osseeds.org

And yes, please do share your presentation with us once you are done.

Puneet


> On Dec 29, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Peter Mooney  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, 
> 
> In my home region (http://osm.org/go/etihfKs--?m=) in the midlands of Ireland 
> a local volunteer group has asked me to give a lecture/talk to the local 
> farming community (and anyone else who is interested) on the topic of "Open 
> Source Farming" or "Open Source Agriculture". The talk is scheduled for the 
> end of January 2017. 
> 
> The theme of the talk is to try to reach out and engage with the sizeable 
> local farming community on the topics of using Open Source Software, Open 
> (Geo)Data, Open Hardware, etc in the management of their agricultural 
> business. Basically show the audience some really good examples from 
> agriculture around the world. 
> 
> My email is to ask if any of you have links to (1) similar presentations, 
> lectures, webinars, videos or (2) examples of OSGeo software use in 
> agriculture, etc. Indeed any fun, interesting, or cool ideas that would be of 
> interest to an agriculture/rural audience. 
> 
> My idea is that if there is enough interest in the audience I will try to 
> look to develop some outreach teaching using OSGeo Live for these 
> communities. 
> 
> I will credit all contributions and shall be making my slides openly 
> available after the presentation. I'll report back to the mailing lists. 
> 
> Greetings for the holiday season and best wishes for 2017,
> 
> Peter Mooney
> 
> …



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] easiest setup on Windows

[P Kishor]

Whoa ! qgis2web is super sweet ! My compliments to the team that created it. 
Not a long term solution, but really nice to get folks interested and excited.


> On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:02 PM, Ian Turton  wrote:
> 
> look at the qgis2web plugin see 
> https://anitagraser.com/2015/10/01/quick-webmaps-with-qgis2web/ 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] easiest setup on Windows

[P Kishor]

Thanks ! I will check out OSGeo4W. Strangely, there is no link for it from the 
OSGeo home page so I didn’t know about it.


> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:58 PM, Siki Zoltan  wrote:
> 
> I would offer your friends OSGeo4W. Apache, server and client side GIS are 
> included (optionally installable), easy update/install.
> PostgreSQL/PostGIS not included.

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[OSGeo-Discuss] easiest setup on Windows

[P Kishor]

hello OSGeo,

I am helping some friends migrate their work to a real GIS (from a hodgepodge 
of AutoCad and MS-Excel spreadsheets). Unfortunately, for me, they use Windows 
(the last time I used Windows was 1997). I will try and convince them to start 
using some kind of Linux, at least for their geospatial needs, but assuming I 
can’t, what is the easiest way to get them started with web mapping?

Fwiw, I am installing PostGIS for them and outfitting them with QGIS. So, the 
desktop/datastore part is covered. But I don’t have time to build a full 
fledged Leaflet app. Is there something I can install on a Windows machine that 
will read data from PostGIS and serve it on the web, and allow some level of 
customization of the interface?

(Sadly, I don’t even know what version of Windows they are using, but I recall 
it had a lot of bouncy windows so it must be one of the newer versions.)

Many thanks in advance,




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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo and Open Data?

[P Kishor]

I can confidently say that at least one important iteration of my career 
in/with open data is a result of my involvement with OSGeo.


> On Oct 17, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Arnulf Christl  
> wrote:
> 
> Kind of: If somebody approaches OSGeo with a good
> cause we are happy to support it.



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[OSGeo-Discuss] developing a slippy maps app while offline

[P Kishor]

I will be offline (for mapping purposes) for a few weeks, but would like to 
continue working on my projects. Is there a way I can develop a leafletjs app 
while offline? I don’t want to create an offline map storage as I really don’t 
want to look at the maps. I just want leafletjs to not throw any errors while I 
code other (non-map) parts of the app.

Suggestions?

Puneet
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] geotagging analog photos

[P Kishor]

Thanks Bob, for the link to GeoSetter. However, as Markus says, GeoSetter is 
not open source, and for now, I am looking for not just open source but also 
non-Windows programs (only because I have not used nor have had access to a 
Windows machine now for almost two decades).


> On Sep 21, 2016, at 8:05 PM, Markus Neteler  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sep 21, 2016 7:49 PM, "Bruce, Bob (SD)"  wrote:
> >
> > You might try the geosetter program which has a map link and will set the 
> > coordinates as you select points on the map. You can find it at:
> 
> ... that's not free and open source software, though.
> 
> Markus

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[OSGeo-Discuss] geotagging analog photos

[P Kishor]

Background: a colleague has a pretty incredible collection of analog photos 
(prints and slides) from various expeditions in Nepal. These are invaluable 
photos because they offer a time-series view (repeated expeditions to the same 
locations over many years) at a very high resolution. 

Problem: there is no geolocation for these photos—where the photographer was 
standing and which way he was looking when he took these photos.

Objective: Scan the photos and geolocate them, then pin them on a map of the 
region.

For geocoding them:

- “fly” around on Google Earth/Maps trying to recognize the terrain from the 
photo;

- use programs such as [Hey What’s That](http://www.heywhatsthat.com);

- construct a crowdsourcing application and get everyone and anyone involved.

I ask you, are there other solutions/approaches that come to your 
geospatial-hive-mind ?




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[OSGeo-Discuss] storage and display of time-geo data (rasters)

[P Kishor]

Besides Pg, what are the existing solutions for storing and mapping time/space 
values with the usual time and space operators

- within
- contained
- near
- etc.

- between time1 and time2
- before time1
- after time1
- at time1

and so on. Preferably, a completely nodejs-based solution for a 
proof-of-concept/lightweight application that can be easily upgraded to 
something more robust and with a real db-backend.




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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: FW: Some more stuff about coordinate reference systems

[P Kishor]

This is really useful, thanks. Also, perhaps this is one of those use cases 
where “Good Enough” is good enough http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GoodEnough and 
http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1988603

Caveat emptor and all that




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> On Aug 8, 2016, at 12:55 AM, Bruce Bannerman 
>  wrote:
> 
> FYI, info on the Apache SIS library.
> 
> Martin Desruisseaux of Geomatys has done a good job with his presentation at 
> [2] that describes why spatial reference systems are important.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> 
> On 5/08/2016, 19:59, "Jon Blower"  wrote:
> 
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I¹ve been talking offline with Martin Desruisseaux of Geomatys, a CRS
> >guru. He has given me lots of information that I thought this group might
> >be interested in, to help better understand issues around CRSs. This is a
> >complicated area so I apologise if I make any mistakes in transmitting
> >Martin¹s wisdom!
> >
> >Firstly, a couple of useful references. Martin is in the Apache SIS
> >project, which provides a Java library for spatial data, including very
> >comprehensive treatment of CRSs and conversions between CRSs. The SIS
> >developer guide [1] is still in development but already has a lot of
> >useful information about CRSs, which is useful even if you don¹t use the
> >library. He also has written a presentation [2], which is a great
> >explanation of why we don¹t always use WGS84 lat-lon, the importance of
> >different datums and some of the issues in transforming between CRSs.
> >
> >Secondly, a useful point that is not always understood by newcomers. We
> >usually talk about latitude and longitude, but often forget about the
> >third dimension (ellipsoidal height). When converting between CRSs that
> >use different datums, we need the third dimension as well. EPSG
> >guidelines say that, if the height is missing, reasonable assumptions are:
> >
> >1. Height = 0 (i.e. we are standing on the surface of the ellipsoid)
> >2. The height is given by a digital elevation model (i.e. we are standing
> >on the surface of the planet)
> >
> >These two assumptions will, of course, lead to different answers for *all
> >three* coordinates in the ³new² system (and both assumptions might be
> >wrong). This could be important on the Web, because we frequently give
> >latitude and longitude, but no information about ellipsoidal height. This
> >means that if we convert these coordinates into a new system, we will get
> >an uncertain position (and even the horizontal positions in the new
> >system are uncertain, not just the height). [Does the Best Practice
> >document mention this?]
> >
> >Finally, the process of converting coordinates between CRSs that use
> >different datums can be very involved. Few open-source libraries do it
> >³properly² (this is one of the gaps that SIS hopes to fill). I have a lot
> >more information from Martin on this point but I think this email is long
> >enough already!
> >
> >Hope this is helpful!
> >Jon
> >
> >
> >[1] http://sis.staging.apache.org/book/en/developer-guide.html
> >[2] http://home.apache.org/~desruisseaux/SIS/2016-05.odp
> >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] selection of points between lines

[P Kishor]

You need to provide way more info and context than you have. 

What is a “line plan for a river”?  

What does “between lines” mean? For example, what is the “between” if the lines 
are orthogonal?


> On Jun 22, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Subbu Sravan  wrote:
> 
>  I have Line plan for a RIVER and i have some point data between 
> lines.
> My goal is to select the point data between lines as txt file.
> 
> The output should be like this
> 
> S.NO  Line No  Point data ID
> 1 1-2x,x,x,x,x,e,t.c
> 
> Waiting for valuable suggestions

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

[P Kishor]

Hi Peter,

Let me ask you: what do you hope to gain by getting an OSGeo mark? And, 
whatever that is, is that worth all this negotiation?

Personally, I use a product if it is good for me, not because it has a certain 
blessing on it. There are many non-OSGeo products I use, and there are many 
OSGeo products I don’t use. If Rasdaman suits my needs, I will use it whether 
or not it has been blessed by OSGeo.

Since it seems like what you want and what OSGeo is willing to give are at 
odds, I ask again: what do you hope to gain from OSGeo’s blessing?


> On May 5, 2016, at 6:24 AM, Peter Baumann  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Cameron,
> 
> I tried very much to make the situation transparent. Maybe the notion of 
> Principal Investigator helps here (cf Wikipedia - although biased towards 
> medical science):
> A principal investigator (PI) is the holder of an independent grant 
> administered by a university and the lead researcher for the grant project, 
> usually in the sciences, such as a laboratory study or a clinical trial. The 
> phrase is also often used as a synonym for "head of the laboratory" or 
> "research group leader." While the expression is common in the sciences, it 
> is used widely for the person or persons who make final decisions and 
> supervise funding and expenditures on a given research project.
> 
> I am the PI of rasdaman, and that will not change, also not indirectly 
> through wordsmithing as proposed.
> 
> OSGeo is entering new domains with rasdaman, which is: scientific research 
> projects. Like some other communities, these have existed long before OSGeo, 
> and have their own ethics, procedures, and rules. It is unlikely that science 
> will change and give up freedom of research based on its principles well 
> accepted by the whole community. If OSGeo intends to change these in general 
> then maybe starting with rasdaman as an isolated item in a vast universe is 
> not the optimal point.
> 
> OSGeo may find out that its very special (although obviously not 
> unambiguously codified) views constrain it to particular ecosystems. But I am 
> not imposing nor judging. Just trying to explain.
> 
> HTH,
> Peter
> 
> 
> …

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] how did the Paris code sprint go

[P Kishor]

If the response had been enthusiastic then perhaps your help wouldn't have
been needed. That you think the response was mixed/tepid and that it could
have been better is perfect reason for you to jump in and take leadership
here. I seriously can't think of a better, ahem, response and suggestion
than that given by Even Rouault, a perfect blend of respect, inclusiveness
and encouragement if there ever was one.



On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Jonathan Moules <
jonathan-li...@lightpear.com> wrote:

> I'm not averse to the notion, but given the mixed/tepid response to this
> email thread, it doesn't seem like something the community has any
> particular desire for.
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
>  On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 16:18:32 + *Even
> Rouault>* wrote
> 
>
> Jonathan,
>
> if you feel OSGeo should have an environmental policy, you could certainly
> propose one for consideration by the larger community, and then volunteer
> to
> champion to make it adopted, and enforce it afterwards.
>
>



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by ESRI

[P Kishor]

Thanks Patrick for surfacing this. Yes, this should be opened up for
scrutiny by the entire community and we should all weigh in.

On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Suchith Anand <
suchith.an...@nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I believe the OSGeo Board need
> to look into this and prepare a position paper with inputs from the
> community as this has wider implications. This also need to be discussed
> with like minded organisations. We all can provide the needed support for
> this.
>
> Jeff and OSGeo Board - please add this to the next month Board meeting's
> agenda items. Thanks.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Suchith
>
>
> 
> From: ica-osgeo-labs-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [
> ica-osgeo-labs-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Lene Fischer [
> l...@ign.ku.dk]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 6:29 PM
> To: Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX); ica-osgeo-l...@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ
> clone” by ESRI
>
> +1
>
>
> Lene Fischer
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Geosciences and Natural Resource Management
> University of Copenhagen
>
> MOB +45 40115084
> l...@ign.ku.dk
>
>
> [cid:image001.gif@01D052C3.B23B1060]
>
>
>
> Fra: ica-osgeo-labs-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:
> ica-osgeo-labs-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] På vegne af Hogan, Patrick
> (ARC-PX)
> Sendt: 27. februar 2015 18:48
> Til: ica-osgeo-l...@lists.osgeo.org
> Emne: [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by
> ESRI
>
> Dear OSGEO,
> For what our good name is worth. . .
> Do we have an opinion on something so essential as an open standard for a
> data format?
> Speak now, or forever hand over your wallet. Individual and collective
> response encouraged.
>
> Can OSGEO provide a short position paper commenting on our values? I.e.,
> “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all [data] are created
> equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
> Rights, that among these [is Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Openness].”
>
> The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by ESRI
> http://rapidlasso.com/2015/02/22/lidar-las-asprs-esri-and-the-laz-clone/
>
> [First paragraph]
> We are concerned about ESRI’s next moves in forcing yet another
> proprietary format into wide-spread deployment. Forwarded emails, retold
> conversations, and personal experiences suggest that sneaky tactics<
> http://rapidlasso.com/2014/11/06/keeping-esri-honest/> are being used to
> disrupt the harmony in open LiDAR formats that we have enjoyed for many
> years.
> [cid:image002.jpg@01D052C3.B23B1060]
>
> Thanks much,
> -Patrick
>
> patrick.ho...@nasa.gov
>  Project Manager
> NASA World Wind
> (650) 604-5656 (office)
> (650) 269-2788 (cell)
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] schedule for the geospatial devroom @FOSDEM announced

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Johan Van de Wauw <
johan.vandew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We were all pleasantly suprised by the number and the quality of the
> proposals. All speakers have now confirmed, so I'm really happy I can
> share the schedule with all of you:
>
> https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/track/geospatial/
>



This is indeed a great lineup. Any chance it will be recorded?


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] forestry at OSGeo

[P Kishor]

I came from env sciences, but did work in forestry ("hi Steve! its been a
while!) for a couple of years before moving to geosciences and then leaving
it all for policy. But as Steve says, some sciences are just more amenable
to using the more readily available, good quality spatial data such as from
remote sensing. Transportation, oil exploration, conservation,
location-allocation and a few others such would join this bucket.

Actually, discipline-profile of the OSGeo membership would be cool, useless
knowledge to have.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Lime, Steve D (MNIT) <
steve.l...@state.mn.us> wrote:

> MapServer came out of the University of Minnesota - Department of Forest
> Resources. One big reason was the widespread use of Landsat (and GIS in
> general) for inventory purposes. Forestry, at least in MN, was quick to
> embrace spatial technologies. Landsat in particular was at just the right
> resolution (spatial, radiometric) for that discipline.
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:
> discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Jachym Cepicky
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:59 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] forestry at OSGeo
>
> Hi,
>
> just wondering, how many members of your community do have their origin in
> forestry? Seems relatively many, wondering why.
>
> I start with myself - I studied forestry at university of life science,
> Prague,  after that I moved to (OS)GIS
>
> Jachym
>
> --
> Jachym Cepicky
> e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com
> URL: http://les-ejk.cz
> GPG: http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp
>
> Give your code freedom with PyWPS - http://pywps.wald.intevation.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Polling charter members

[P Kishor]

yup, you nailed it. In fact, if the conversation is only about FOSS4G, I
couldn't give a rip. Otoh, if the conversation is about OSGeo, its nature
and what it stands for, I am all ears, and I do believe many other Charter
Members would also want to be included.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:51 PM, Jachym Cepicky 
wrote:

> Just noting,
>
> discussion about relationship between LocationTech and OSGeo is here
> since 2012 (IIRC). That many people did not pain attention to it
> (actually including myself up to certain time), is not fault of OSGeo
> .. or LocationTech.
>
> It's just actually boring topic. We are community of (mostly)
> developers and users of FOSS4G (not conference, but software in this
> case). This sounds like politics .. who would pay attention? So, now
> we are here, things are happening, we can finally talk to whole
> community, because of this IMHO *is* important topic - two big
> organisations are trying to find a way, how to cooperate in the future
> for better free and open source software for geospatial! This is good.
> If for nothing else, then for clarifying OSGeo's position.
>
> Jachym
>
> 2014-09-17 22:42 GMT+02:00 P Kishor :
> > My guess is, just as I do, most Charter Members find this entire thread
> very
> > alien. For us who don't go to FOSS4G, OSGeo means something completely
> > different (here is where I disagree with an earlier email--I think it
> was Jo
> > Cook--that folks know OSGeo products but not OSGeo). To suddenly hear of
> all
> > this chatter about FOSS4G being used as a football between OSGeo and
> > LocationTech (an org I heard about for the first time also in this
> thread)
> > is like waking up at night to find a bunch of strangers chatting in your
> > living room.
> >
> > Definitely, involving Charter Members would be a very sound and nice
> thing
> > to do.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Steven Feldman 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Before we get to the stage of polling charter members and local
> chapters,
> >> it would be helpful if more of the charter membership and local chapters
> >> chipped in with their opinions. Many seem to have been very quiet, i am
> sure
> >> they must have a view
> >> __
> >> Steven
> >>
> >>
> >> On 17 Sep 2014, at 20:00, conference-europe-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Massimiliano Cannata 
> >> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo
> >> Date: 17 September 2014 19:22:24 BST
> >> To: P Kishor 
> >> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
> >>
> >>
> >> Puneet,
> >> I agree with you, this is an "hot" decision that cannot be taken by a
> >> small group of people without at least have heard about what the OSGeo
> >> community think about.
> >>
> >> In this tread I have learnt a lot on LocationTech and on motivation that
> >> pushed some OSGeo members to embrace also LocationTech. I can really
> feel
> >> the desire to help and foster geospatial open source software from those
> >> guys.
> >>
> >> BTW, I also believe that FOSS4G is the OSGeo event.
> >>
> >> For this reason I believe that if OSGeo want to change things and share
> it
> >> with LocationTech (not just let them organize it in the name of), we
> need a
> >> deep OSGeo internal discussion at all level: Local Chapters, Charter
> >> members, Committees and finally the Board which has the responsibility
> to
> >> vote on this.
> >>
> >> So, my proposal is:
> >> 1) Have a formal proposal from LocationTech which explain terms of
> >> collaboration, commitments and guarantees
> >> 2) Publish publicly this proposal for a period (let's say 2 week) for
> >> people to look into this proposal
> >> 3) Call for a vote from charter members
> >> 4) Call for a letter of position letter from each committee and local
> >> Chapters
> >> 5) Publish publicly the results
> >> 6) Discuss it on the next board meeting and finally have a vote and a
> >> letter of motivation from the Board
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW, the FOSS4G-EUROPE website (http://foss4g-e.org/) states clearly at
> >> the home page: "OSGeo's European Conference on Free and Open Source
> Software
> >> for Geospatial".
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope this doesn't hurt anyone, and brings positive point of
> discussion.
> >>
> >> It is just my personal thought as a new board member, and sorry if I've

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Polling charter members

[P Kishor]

My guess is, just as I do, most Charter Members find this entire thread
very alien. For us who don't go to FOSS4G, OSGeo means something completely
different (here is where I disagree with an earlier email—I think it was Jo
Cook—that folks know OSGeo products but not OSGeo). To suddenly hear of all
this chatter about FOSS4G being used as a football between OSGeo and
LocationTech (an org I heard about for the first time also in this thread)
is like waking up at night to find a bunch of strangers chatting in your
living room.

Definitely, involving Charter Members would be a very sound and nice thing
to do.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Steven Feldman  wrote:

> Before we get to the stage of polling charter members and local chapters,
> it would be helpful if more of the charter membership and local chapters
> chipped in with their opinions. Many seem to have been very quiet, i am
> sure they must have a view
> __
> Steven
>
>
> On 17 Sep 2014, at 20:00, conference-europe-requ...@lists.osgeo.org wrote:
>
> *From: *Massimiliano Cannata 
> *Subject: **Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo*
> *Date: *17 September 2014 19:22:24 BST
> *To: *P Kishor 
> *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions 
>
>
> Puneet,
> I agree with you, this is an "hot" decision that cannot be taken by a
> small group of people without at least have heard about what the *OSGeo
> community* think about.
>
> In this tread I have learnt a lot on LocationTech and on motivation that
> pushed some OSGeo members to embrace also LocationTech. I can really feel
> the desire to help and foster geospatial open source software from those
> guys.
>
> BTW, I also believe that FOSS4G is the OSGeo event.
>
> For this reason I believe that if OSGeo want to change things and *share* it
> with LocationTech (not just let them organize it in the name of), we need a
> deep OSGeo internal discussion at all level: Local Chapters, Charter
> members, Committees and finally the Board which has the responsibility to
> vote on this.
>
> So, my proposal is:
> 1) Have a formal proposal from LocationTech which explain terms of
> collaboration, commitments and guarantees
> 2) Publish publicly this proposal for a period (let's say 2 week) for
> people to look into this proposal
> 3) Call for a vote from charter members
> 4) Call for a letter of position letter from each committee and local
> Chapters
> 5) Publish publicly the results
> 6) Discuss it on the next board meeting and finally have a vote and a
> letter of motivation from the Board
>
>
> BTW, the FOSS4G-EUROPE website (http://foss4g-e.org/) states clearly at
> the home page: "OSGeo's European Conference on Free and Open Source
> Software for Geospatial".
>
>
> I hope this doesn't hurt anyone, and brings positive point of discussion.
>
> It is just my personal thought as a new board member, and sorry if I've
> lost some best practice currently in place.
>
> Maxi
>
>
>
>
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>



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Jeff McKenna  wrote:

> I am also pondering of suggesting to the Board, later when we get to that
> point, of possibly querying the Charter Members, in a "referendum" of
> sorts.  Not sure, I'm just speaking openly here.




Please do. As I gently indicated in an earlier email, all these discussions
are very new to me, so it is reasonable to assume they are new to many
other Charter Members around the world as well. Given that  most of this
thread seems to be driven by FOSS4G, a conf I have little fondness for
anymore, the conversation sounds very alien to me. Esp. so since it hints
at changing the nature of OSGeo.

Getting the input of Charter Members worldwide will be noisy and difficult,
but that is how communities are. Whoever wants to provide an input should
have a visible and welcome opportunity to do so. Plus, it will be a good
chance to "use" the Charter Members for something other than just voting,
for a change ;)


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo

[P Kishor]

Good questions Rich. I had never heard of LocationTech until this
discussion started, which indicates to me how removed I am from this
discussion (and general OSGeo day-to-day admin/affairs). Nevertheless,
seems like everything is sorted out and everyone is happy. Let's get back
to coding and making great apps.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Richard Greenwood <
richard.greenw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't get it, and my question is moot at this point in time, but why do
> we need a new foundation? Why couldn't OSGeo have provided what
> LocationTech purports to provide? Was there any discussion, or awareness,
> in the OSGeo board prior to the formation of LocationTech?
>
> Rich
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Jeff McKenna <
> jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com> wrote:
>
>> Arnulf,
>>
>> I definitely agree that both foundations fill a role and need to exist.
>>
>> The point I am trying to make is that we have the power to change OSGeo,
>> if we feel some needs are not being met well.
>>
>> I used too strong of words again, I am sorry.
>>
>> -jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-09-15 2:59 PM, Arnulf Christl wrote:
>>
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Jeff,
>>> I believe that Daniel is actually right in what he says - given that I
>>> understand the point he is trying to make. There are differences
>>> between OSGeo and LocationTech and trying to talk them away will not
>>> get us anywhere. And its not "bad" or "goo" either way, we just
>>> operate differently.
>>>
>>> The point is that in OSGeo you cannot move anything at all as a
>>> business, not directly. In LocationTech you become a corporate member,
>>> pay money and in return have influence over certain things and get
>>> support. Directly geared towards your specific needs. OSGeo does none
>>> of those things.
>>>
>>> As an individual (with or without business) you can become the
>>> committee chair and an OSGeo officer with absolutely no preconditions,
>>> no money needed, no organizational backing and no other hierarchy.
>>> Just because othes think you are doing a cool job and have accumulated
>>> enough merit to go ahead as a leader. This would not work in this way
>>> in LocationTech.
>>>
>>> Both ways have reasons to exist and are good. Right?
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>> Arnulf
>>>
>>> Am 2014-09-15 10:45, schrieb Jeff McKenna:
>>>
 On 2014-09-15 1:22 PM, Daniel Morissette wrote:

> the members in OSGeo are individuals and the members in
> Eclipse/LocationTech are businesses
>


 Daniel this statement is not true, regarding OSGeo.  OSGeo members
 are made up of all walks of life, and many are running private
 businesses all around the world.  I have visited their
 organizations/offices myself in my FOSS4G travels throughout the
 years.

 However I cannot change how you feel.

 This part is unfortunate, these strong statements made publicly,
 which I feel are made to divide our community.

 Let me reinforce: our OSGeo community and our FOSS4G events (of
 all sizes) are geared for everyone and anyone, with no sole focus
 on one type of community.  And as the President of OSGeo, I am
 happy to represent all of the members, of any kind :)

 -jeff


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>
>
>
> --
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> www.greenwoodmap.com
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Election 2014] Nominations finish tomorrow!!

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Jorge Sanz  wrote:

> There are more than 60 nominations, so checking every nominee
> discussion will take a while for Charter Members, but it's a very
> important excercise to be responsible on our vote on who will be
> accepted.
>

Will the list of nominees and those seconding them be available somewhere?
If not, this might something worth creating a Google Forms for or something
simple like that the future.



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members

[P Kishor]

Membership dues for OSGeo could very well work, but they would change the
nature of the organization. While it makes sense for those who are
professionals and thus want to belong to professional organizations, many
OSGeo members are not "professionals" in the sense of depending upon
OSGeo's projects for their living—many are educators, volunteers, govt.
folks, hobbyists and so on.

That said, not everyone has to be a member of OSGeo to enjoy its products
and its community, and believe in the ideals of the community. I have no
particular objection to membership dues, but it is not something I would
pay. Hence, I would agree to forsake my Charter Membership, if that is
what's entailed.




On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Howard Butler  wrote:

>
> On Jun 23, 2014, at 9:25 AM, Bart van den Eijnden 
> wrote:
>
> > Good food for thought Howard, can’t say I disagree with anything you say
> here.
> >
> > The only thing we need to consider is that for some countries 50 or 70
> USD can still be a lot of money
>
> Yes. Something equitable could be arrived at. Let the membership committee
> come up with the membership dues rules. I would assume there's student
> memberships, grants, etc.
>
> Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Google Summer of Code: 23 accepted students for 2014

[P Kishor]

My word! Congratulations all. May you make awesome things and set them free.


-- 
Puneet Kishor
Manager, Science and Data Policy
Creative Commons


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Anne Ghisla  wrote:

> Hello all, and sorry for cross posting,
>
> let us warmly welcome the 23 accepted students and their mentors for
> this round of GSoC!
>
> We received over 60 proposals from a variety of geospatial projects -
> choosing wich ones to accept has been a difficult task, and we apologise
> for not being able to take all the outstanding ones.
>
> We accepted the following students (in software's alphabetical order):
> * Cartaro: Naveen Panwar
> * GDAL/OGR: Varun Saraf and Mikhail Gusev
> * GeoNode: Vikas Mishra
> * GRASS GIS: Vaclav Petras, Matej Krejci and Anna Petrasova
> * gvSIG: Manuel Madrid and Oscar Martinez
> * istSOS: Priska Pietra
> * MapServer: Jessica Lapointe
> * Neo4j: William Lyon
> * Opticks: Roberta Ravanelli
> * OpenStreetMap: Lukasz Gurdek
> * OSSIM: Martina Di Rita
> * Orfeo Toolbox (OTB): Martina Porfiri
> * PostGIS: Mohit Kumar
> * pgRouting: Manikanta Kondeti and Mukul Priya
> * pyWPS: Anna Homolka
> * Software packaging: Jerome Villeneuve Larouche
> * QGIS: Nishith Maheshwari
> * uDig/GeoTools: Silvia Franceschi
>
> This list includes OSGeo projects (official and incubating) and
> like-minded projects - let GSoC be a "gathering of tribes", an occasion
> to improve communication among all geospatial open source initiatives.
>
> See the full list of OSGeo accepted proposals here:
> https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org2/google/gsoc2014/osgeo
> ..
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Copy Left and Copyright for Geospatial software

[P Kishor]

On Oct 16, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Ravi Kumar  wrote:

​> ​
How many of the OSGeo Softwares are Copy Left and Copy Right
​
​
> Pl give a link where the rationale is explained especially for OSGeo.
> I am aware that Free Software Foundation has things explained.
> This is to a great extent true only in countries like USA where software
> can be copy righted.
> In many countries software does not come under Copyright. Example:
> India.

The above is incorrect. As per Section 13(1)(a) of the Indian Copyright
Act, 1957, copyright subsists in original literary, dramatic and musical
works:

13. Works in which copyright subsists.
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and the other provisions of
this Act, copyright shall subsist throughout India in the following classes
of works, that is to say,-

(a) original literary, dramatic, musical and artistic works;


As per Section 2(o) of the (Indian) Copyright Act, 1957; literary works
include computer programmes. The exact text of the section is:

(o)
​ ​
"literary work" includes computer programmes, tables and compilations
including computer
​
 data bases ;

*
*


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[OSGeo-Discuss] Law and the GeoWeb

[P Kishor]

Law and the GeoWeb
==

A workshop on "Intellectual Property and Geographic Data in the
Internet Era" sponsored by Creative Commons and the United States
Geological Survey (USGS) in conjunction with the annual meeting of
AAG, April 11, 2011, Seattle, Washington. The workshop will be held at
the campus of Microsoft Research, and will be streamed live on the
Internet.

This workshop will focus on intellectual property issues with
geographic data, exploring situations when users and creators ranging
from individuals to local, state and federal agencies as well as
private companies and non-profits create, share and reuse geographic
information from different sources over the Internet in their
projects.

For more information, please see http://punkish.org/geoweb/index.html
or search on Twitter for #lawandgeoweb

Rationale
=

U.S Copyright Law protects tangible original works with creative
content but the law also ensures that facts, that is, data that are
discovered rather than invented, remain free for everyone's benefit.
This ideas/expression dichotomy creates a lot of issues in the
Internet age when information is very easily created, shared, used and
reused.

With inexpensive computing and networking power available to everyone,
geographic datasets are increasingly being created, shared and used by
individuals, grassroots organizations, and private corporations. These
data come with different expectations with regards to how they may be
used resulting in a hodgepodge of licensing and contractual
obligations that hinders data interoperability. Mixing data of
different provenance creates new data with typically more restrictive
licensing conditions. Public agencies may be unable to mix licensed
data with government data due to restrictive licensing terms of the
resultant dataset, and thus, may be unable to capitalize on and
benefit from user-generated content.

Workshop Structure
==

The current line-up of speakers from federal, state and local
agencies, Creative Commons, grassroots agencies, intellectual property
lawyers, the geospatial industry, and research and academia includes:

* Ed Arabas, National States Geographic Information Council
* Greg Babinsky, King County, State of Washington
* Michael Brick, Microsoft Legal, Bing Maps
* Steve Coast, Founder, Open Street Maps
* Kari Craun, Director, National Geospatial Technical Operations, USGS
* Ed Parsons, Chief Technologist, Google Maps, Google
* Diane Peters, General Counsel, Creative Commons
* Tim Trainor, Bureau Chief, Geography Division, US Census Bureau
* Paul Uhlir, Director, Board for Research, Data and Information, NRC

The format of the workshop will encourage discussion and participation.

Participate
===

To ensure those directly involved in the topic get a chance to attend
the workshop, attendance is based on a short application form
accessible at http://punkish.org/geoweb/participate/in_person/index.html.
Deadline for applying for the workshop is December 18, 2010. Selected
applicants will be informed by January 15, 2011.

Attendees will also be able to submit longer papers for publication in
a special issue of the peer-reviewed, completely free and open access
online journal "International Journal of Spatial Data Infrastructure
Research" published by the Joint Research Centre of the European
Commission.

Logistics
=

The workshop is organized in conjunction with the AAG annual meeting.
The workshop will be held on the campus of Microsoft Research, and run
from 1 PM to 5 PM on Monday, April 11, 2011.

There is no fee for this workshop and participants do not have to
register for the AAG Annual Meeting. The workshop is limited to 50
participants to facilitate discussion.

Proceedings of the workshop and selected longer papers will be
published in a special issue of the open-access International Journal
of Spatial Data Infrastructure Research published by the Joint
Research Centre of the European Commission.

Contact
===

Please contact either Puneet Kishor, Creative Commons
[punk...@creativecommons.org] or Barbare Poore, USGS
[bspo...@usgs.gov] if you have any questions.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Congrats New Charter members

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Ian Turton  wrote:
>
> ..
>>
>
> I was waiting for a final announcement from Paul that voting was closing - I 
> didn't want to vote to early as the were still candidate statements coming 
> through that I wanted to read and consider.
>
> So I know it was my fault for not paying more attention to the end of voting 
> but in previous elections there have been at least one (if not more) 
> reminders to vote. I suspect that this caught others out too.
>

Yes.

--
Pavlov's dog
I got trained to listen to the sound of "fetch."

Being on the road for the past 3 weeks didn't help as a lot of emails
got buried under a lot of emails.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2010 Charter Member Selection

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 6:20 AM, Paul Ramsey  wrote:
> OSGeo members,
>
> The 2010 process is complete, and the new charter members are, in
> alphabetical order:
..

Congratulations to all those who were elected. Now get to work. ;-)

But, most of all, thanks to everyone who ran for the limited number of
positions. Please take comfort in the knowledge that you are just as
important and able to bring about change as any charter member (all
that a charter member can do is vote for new charter members). Please
continue doing whatever you were doing that motivated you to run for
the position of a charter member. Your presence worldwide, your
involvement, and your work, be it developing code, using code and
helping other adopt it, evangelizing adoption in organizations,
training, awareness building, these are all the basic building blocks
of the OSGeo community.

Thanks for taking the time off your work, wearing your heart on your
sleeve, and telling everyone what you do. Please continue do it.


-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] offline maps

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Arnie Shore  wrote:
> A semi-minor point, re " ... Google prohibits offline caching of their data.
> ... ":  Not axactly.  The major TOU restriction is that their images may be
> used *only* with their API.

Possibly. I haven't studied their terms in detail because I haven't
run into a situation where I would violate them. But, yes, one should
do their own due diligence on what is allowed and what is not.

Anyway, the original thread is on how to make maps and data available
without Internet access. I hope the OP now has enough information to
know this is possible and relatively not-that-difficult.

>
> OpenLayers accommodates that restriction by wrapping OL around that API
> code.
>
> AS
>
>
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] offline maps

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:33 AM, carlos sousa  wrote:
> Hello Ian and Kishor,
>
> It's strange you refer to google's TOS, which kinda reminds me of
> microsofts agreements on the stickers of original software, you have
> to buy but is never yours.


Nothing strange about it. It has always been that way. Its just that
there is more awareness of these issues. Almost all copyrightable
material is never really yours, and when it is, there are limitations
on what you can do with it. Even in the physical realm (atoms not
bits) you can resell a book or a CD that you purchased, but you can't
make a 1000 copies of it and resell all of those.

In the digital realm (bits not atoms), you almost always pay for a
license to use the "thing" not to own it.

On top of that, stuff like EULA and TOS are contracts between you and
the vendor/provider that you become party to soon as you click on that
button or check that checkbox ("I didn't read the long boring stuff"
is not a good defense).


> To run around with the data in your cache isn't illegal? Anyways, I
> was wondering about other kinds of data freely available on the net,
> like yahoo's, usgs, nasa, etc.

Even if stuff is "freely available on the net" doesn't mean that it is
free. There are limits to what you can do with it, and those limits
are spelled out in the terms of service (or equivalent agreement).

I am pretty sure that Google prohibits offline caching of their data.

> Aerial photographs that lie around the net are scarce but theres a
> large repository of ground based and altitude information that I don't
> know how to use and Kishor's solution is really cool but out of the
> reach of the non scientific realm, and for you average geek.

It is not that difficult actually. Should you decide to do it, there
is enough help available from the user community. That is the very
nature of open source. You have to roll your sleeves and do some
lifting, sometimes heavy, sometimes light, but always have to do some
lifting.


> Regarding geoserver, it's that easy to roll out tiff's at it because I
> have several free tif's and other generated from gdal's merge feature
> that he simply refuses to serve as wms.
> By the way I do use opengeo's and gisvm's solution for single laptop
> access to wms served data.

There you go. You already have a solution. Just learn more about it
and use it to the fullest.


> Another problem is that there are alot of images that aren't georenferenced.

Yes, that is another problem.

>
> Thanks for sharing your ideas.
>
> Carlos
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Ian Turton  wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:59 AM, carlos sousa  wrote:
>>> Hello and thanks for your help, but thats kinda blunt, throw
>>> everything into the laptop and call it bigfatmaprepository. Is it
>>> possible to detail a bit the software used and what kind of rasters
>>> there are in the repository.
>>>
>>
>> Install GeoServer and GWC and add all your data as usual and all will be 
>> fine.
>>
>> A more complex approach is to install GeoServer 2.1 and cascade the
>> WMS you usually use through GWC and make sure to visit all the main
>> areas of interest you might want to see later before you leave the
>> network and every thing will be in the cache. This might even work
>> with a slow link back to base to fill in any new areas you visit.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> --
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] offline maps

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Arnie Shore  wrote:
> Yes that, and how you obtain the GMaps terrain without the internet.


I don't. It is impossible to do that. You can't cache those as that
would violate Google TOS even if you figured out how to do that.

I just live without it. Gmaps data are *not* free (as in speech), so I
don't have the right to access them my way.

In any case, my data are very usable even without Gmaps baselayer.


> Thanks,
>
> AS
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:59 AM, carlos sousa  wrote:
>>
>> Hello and thanks for your help, but thats kinda blunt, throw
>> everything into the laptop and call it bigfatmaprepository. Is it
>> possible to detail a bit the software used and what kind of rasters
>> there are in the repository.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
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>



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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] offline maps

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:59 AM, carlos sousa  wrote:
> Hello and thanks for your help, but thats kinda blunt, throw
> everything into the laptop and call it bigfatmaprepository. Is it
> possible to detail a bit the software used and what kind of rasters
> there are in the repository.


I thought I listed all the software I use.

All my data are in either PostGIS/PostGres, or as files. I use
shapefiles, geotiffs, regular images (gifs and pngs). I also have data
in raw binary format that I manipulate with PDL (Perl Data Language, a
scientific programming extension to Perl, kinda like IDL but free and
open source). PDL allows me to query the raw binary data and also
NetCDF data, and convert to images on the fly.

The data served by a combination of Apache/MapServer.

The browse client is coded in Perl (Perl Dancer and DBI), JavaScript
(jQuery and OpenLayers) and CSS.

I also use QGIS or uDig. The latter is more attractive, the former is
more capable.

Everything I need to use my data is on my laptop.

I can disconnect Ethernet, turn off Airport, and happily see all my data.


>
> Thanks
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, P Kishor  wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:58 AM, carlos sousa  wrote:
>>> Hello OSGEO enthusiasts
>>>
>>> I would like to create, starting from the point where hard disk space
>>> is not a problem, a repository of raster maps that can be accessible
>>> offline, when for exemple, we have to go to the field and do
>>> georeference tagging and mapping.
>>> When in the field, there is no broadband internet or it's limited to
>>> 2.5G communication which is very slow, even for the best OGC server
>>> available.
>>
>>
>> Assuming you have a laptop, why not just install whatever you want on
>> it and point your browser to http://localhost/mybigfatmaprepository/
>>
>> I have MapServer, Apache, PostGIS/PostGres, Perl, PDL, OpenLayers,
>> jQuery and just about everything else installed on my 4.5 lbs MacBook.
>> I have a little snippet of code in my application so I can turn Google
>> Maps "on" or "off" as needed before I even launch my programs (I use
>> Google Maps terrain maps as a base layer). I even have the
>> documentation for all these programs installed in html form, heck,
>> even minicpan. No need for Internet at all. The only thing I can
>> continue to have is unlimited power, but as long as I can turn my
>> computer on, I can get to all my data. No Internet, no x.5G, no
>> problem.
>>
>>> So, the ideia is to have a repository of maps, like the terrain maps
>>> offered online by google, for exemple, but I dont like the ideia of
>>> using the cache of google earth since all my work is done with QGIS
>>> and Geoserver.
>>> I know of some programs that are trial based that can do this but the
>>> images dont have any type of projection information with them.
>>> I end up with a bunch of images that cant be layed out on my current
>>> projection system.
>>> Is there a way of doing some kind of work with qgis in order to get
>>> this done correctly?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any kind of help.
>>>
>>> Carlos Sousa
>>> ___
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>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
>> Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
>> Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
>> Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
>> Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
>> ---
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
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Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] offline maps

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:58 AM, carlos sousa  wrote:
> Hello OSGEO enthusiasts
>
> I would like to create, starting from the point where hard disk space
> is not a problem, a repository of raster maps that can be accessible
> offline, when for exemple, we have to go to the field and do
> georeference tagging and mapping.
> When in the field, there is no broadband internet or it's limited to
> 2.5G communication which is very slow, even for the best OGC server
> available.


Assuming you have a laptop, why not just install whatever you want on
it and point your browser to http://localhost/mybigfatmaprepository/

I have MapServer, Apache, PostGIS/PostGres, Perl, PDL, OpenLayers,
jQuery and just about everything else installed on my 4.5 lbs MacBook.
I have a little snippet of code in my application so I can turn Google
Maps "on" or "off" as needed before I even launch my programs (I use
Google Maps terrain maps as a base layer). I even have the
documentation for all these programs installed in html form, heck,
even minicpan. No need for Internet at all. The only thing I can
continue to have is unlimited power, but as long as I can turn my
computer on, I can get to all my data. No Internet, no x.5G, no
problem.

> So, the ideia is to have a repository of maps, like the terrain maps
> offered online by google, for exemple, but I dont like the ideia of
> using the cache of google earth since all my work is done with QGIS
> and Geoserver.
> I know of some programs that are trial based that can do this but the
> images dont have any type of projection information with them.
> I end up with a bunch of images that cant be layed out on my current
> projection system.
> Is there a way of doing some kind of work with qgis in order to get
> this done correctly?
>
> Thanks for any kind of help.
>
> Carlos Sousa
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Charter member candidates, pls step forward! [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[P Kishor]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Bruce Bannerman  wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> I don’t like beating my own drum...


Michael makes a very important point. I haven't heard your drum. That
is not anyone's fault, but we can easily remedy it. I would like to
hear your drum, so please don't be shy.

Better yet, tell everyone what you *will* do, and not just what you
have done (looking forward, not just at the past).

It will help everyone make a more informed decision.

(maybe the US election noise is still loud in my ears, eh!)

Please note, the "you" above is not for just Bruce, but for all the
potential members. Help me vote for you.


>
> I’ll let my actions stand on their merits.
>
> We are indeed fortunate to have such a wealth of talent in our community, as
> can be seen by the nominees.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> On 5/11/10 3:46 AM, "Michael P. Gerlek"  wrote:
>
> Those of you who've been nominated, feel free to announce yourselves with a
> few immodestly chosen lines about why we should vote for you!
>
> There are a lot of seemingly good candidates, but not enough votes to go
> around...
>
> -mpg
>
>
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>
>
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>
>



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Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Representing Places With Intelligent URLs

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Geoff Hay  wrote:
> Hi
> The knowledge you are trying to encode should be represented as associations 
> between individuals (this place contains that place etc) and concepts (city, 
> park, post office delivery area, etc) (as in OWL) rather than a URI scheme 
> (see Geonames).  The basic idea is to represent places in a way that allows 
> inference (make implicit knowledge explicit) i.e. logical consequence
> e.g.
> Explicit: a country only has only one capital city

I am assuming the above is just for illustration, because we have

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_multiple_capitals

To make matters worse, we also have

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_spanning_more_than_one_continent

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_that_overlap_multiple_countries

and probably more.


> Explicit: NZ is a country
> Explicit: Wellington is the capital of NZ
> Explicit: 'Te Upoko o te Ika a Maui'  is the capital of NZ
> Implicit: Wellington and 'Te Upoko o te Ika a Maui' are the same place
>
> - you cant do this nicely with a URL scheme but an OWL reasoner can make such 
> conclusions - yehar Semantic Web.  Actualy there is really no problem with 
> your URI scheme otherwise. It looks exactly like what you would expect for 
> REST Web Services URLs - as long as you don't expect your URLs to be the 
> ultimate and final identifiers - that would break both of the two main 
> assumptions behind the semantic web and its underlying formal logics.
>
> regards
> Geoff
> 
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On 
> Behalf Of Landon Blake [lbl...@ksninc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2010 12:45 p.m.
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Representing Places With Intelligent URLs
>
> A talk at the recent Location Business Summit and some reading I've done
> about the semantic web and microformats lately got me to thinking about
> a standard way to represent places, place names, place data on the web.
> (I must admit I'm a desktop software guy, not a web programmer.)
>
> I thought it would be awesome if there was a way to create a unique URL
> for places that was somewhat intelligent to humans. If this URL could
> point to a folder on a server with some basic information about a place,
> that would be even better.
>
> So I took a stab at creating this type of URL for my city, the City of
> Stockton. Here it is:
>
> http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/united_st
> ates_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/
>
> You can see the URL follows a logical hierarchy, and it would be easy to
> determine what the URL for the City of Sacramento, San Joaquin County,
> or Victory Park in the City of Stockton would be. Obviously the
> continent/country/state/county/city/location URL pattern would have to
> change for other parts of the world.
>
> I put a very simple HTML file with data about the City of Stockton here:
>
> http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/united_st
> ates_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/info.html
>
> The current info.html file is just a skeleton. It's more of a place
> holder right now than anything else.
>
> My thought was to also put a WKT file (place.wkt) representing the
> location of the place and a simple text file (data.txt) with facts about
> the place at this same URL:
>
> http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/united_st
> ates_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/
>
> Now, if someone wanted to write content about the City of Stockton, they
> could simply do something like this:
>
>  href="http://www.standardwebmarkup.org/standard_places/north_america/uni
> ted_states_of_america/california/san_joaquin_county/city_of_stockton/">S
> tockton
>
> If everyone that was putting web content about Stockton online did the
> same thing, search engine and other tools would be able to link data
> from this web content to a single location.
>
> This becomes even more powerful if we come up with some rules for the
> content of the info.html file, place.wkt file, and the data text file.
> Here are some examples:
>
> (1) Specify that the place.wkt file have both a point and a polygon WKT
> representation, or a linestring representation, of the place when
> appropriate.
>
> (2) Specify that the info.html file use a list with alternate place
> names. This list would be identified with an html class value of
> "alternate_place_names".
>
> (3) Specify that the data.txt file contain a relationships section that
> can contain an optional relationship in the form of: City is the County
> Seat of County. (Stockton is the County Seat of San Joaquin County.)
>
> (4) Standardize the way common place facts are stored in the data.txt
> file. Population and area are examples.
>
> I realize there are some problems with this overa

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: Representing Places With Intelligent URLs

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Landon Blake  wrote:
> could be good for 80% of the world.

I wouldn’t go that far... perhaps for 20% of the world, maybe perhaps.

I personally know at least a couple of fairly large swaths of this
world where no such (or any) structure would fly.


-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] help with geotifcp usage

[P Kishor]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Homan, Thomas  wrote:
> It's been a bit since I scripted anything in bash and I don't have anything 
> fired up at the moment. You'll have to fill in the details on the scripting 
> but something like this should be close to working
> #
> FILES = /path/to/files/*.tif
> For f in $FILES
> Do
>  Echo "Processing $f..."
>  Geotifcp -g a.tif ${f%.*} ${f%.*}.newtif
> Done
>
> Once the processing is done delete the *.tif and then mv the *.newtif to 
> *.tif. These steps could be handled inside the do but for a one-off process a 
> little manual review of results before a delete works well for me.


Thanks Thomas. I was hoping geotifcp itself could do this. Seems like
not so. Well, no big deal -- Perl to the rescue, as all of my app is
in Perl anyway.


>
> Just a random thought
>
> T
>
> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of P Kishor
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:07 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] help with geotifcp usage
>
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:20 PM, P Kishor  wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Bob Basques  
>> wrote:
>>>  Hmm, the help file doesn't say much does it.  Did you try using a thrid
>>> file name on the end instead of b.tif (again)?
>>>
>>
>> Seems like the following works
>>
>>    geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif c.tif
>>
>> creating an extra file c.tif. What a shame. Now, to figure out if I
>> can apply this blessed proj info to 100 files in one shot or not, and
>> then delete 100 old files.
>>
>> Also, I wish these darned commands were named consistently. When I see
>> `geotifcp` I think of its analog as `geotifls`, and when I see
>> `listgeo` I think of its analog as `copygeo`. What a shame its not so.
>>
>>
>>
>>> bobb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/15/2010 4:07 PM, P Kishor wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a file a.tif with correct proj info embedded in it. I have
>>>> another file b.tif with no proj info in it. I want to take the proj
>>>> info within a.tif and embed it into b.tif. When I try the following --
>>>>
>>>> geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif b.tif
>>>>
>>>> my b.tif goes from around 321K to 8 bytes. Obviously that is no good,
>>>> but I can't, for the life me, intuit what the usage would be.
>>>>
>>>> Corollary -- I have about a 100 target tifs... b_1.tif, b_2.tif, and
>>>> so on. I would really like to embed the proj info from a.tif into all
>>>> of the b_?.tif so what would that usage be?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> A little more on geotifcp. It doesn't really have an explicit
> usage/help switch, but if I type just the command, I get the usage
> description. There is a typo in it, however
>
>    $geotifcp
>    usage: gtiffcp [options] input... output
>
> huh! What the heck is `gtiffcp` ?
>
>    $gtiffcp
>    -bash: gtiffcp: command not found
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] help with geotifcp usage

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:20 PM, P Kishor  wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Bob Basques  
> wrote:
>>  Hmm, the help file doesn't say much does it.  Did you try using a thrid
>> file name on the end instead of b.tif (again)?
>>
>
> Seems like the following works
>
>    geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif c.tif
>
> creating an extra file c.tif. What a shame. Now, to figure out if I
> can apply this blessed proj info to 100 files in one shot or not, and
> then delete 100 old files.
>
> Also, I wish these darned commands were named consistently. When I see
> `geotifcp` I think of its analog as `geotifls`, and when I see
> `listgeo` I think of its analog as `copygeo`. What a shame its not so.
>
>
>
>> bobb
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/15/2010 4:07 PM, P Kishor wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a file a.tif with correct proj info embedded in it. I have
>>> another file b.tif with no proj info in it. I want to take the proj
>>> info within a.tif and embed it into b.tif. When I try the following --
>>>
>>> geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif b.tif
>>>
>>> my b.tif goes from around 321K to 8 bytes. Obviously that is no good,
>>> but I can't, for the life me, intuit what the usage would be.
>>>
>>> Corollary -- I have about a 100 target tifs... b_1.tif, b_2.tif, and
>>> so on. I would really like to embed the proj info from a.tif into all
>>> of the b_?.tif so what would that usage be?
>>>
>>>
>>




A little more on geotifcp. It doesn't really have an explicit
usage/help switch, but if I type just the command, I get the usage
description. There is a typo in it, however

$geotifcp
usage: gtiffcp [options] input... output

huh! What the heck is `gtiffcp` ?

$gtiffcp
-bash: gtiffcp: command not found

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] help with geotifcp usage

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Bob Basques  wrote:
>  Hmm, the help file doesn't say much does it.  Did you try using a thrid
> file name on the end instead of b.tif (again)?
>

Seems like the following works

geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif c.tif

creating an extra file c.tif. What a shame. Now, to figure out if I
can apply this blessed proj info to 100 files in one shot or not, and
then delete 100 old files.

Also, I wish these darned commands were named consistently. When I see
`geotifcp` I think of its analog as `geotifls`, and when I see
`listgeo` I think of its analog as `copygeo`. What a shame its not so.



> bobb
>
>
>
> On 9/15/2010 4:07 PM, P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> I have a file a.tif with correct proj info embedded in it. I have
>> another file b.tif with no proj info in it. I want to take the proj
>> info within a.tif and embed it into b.tif. When I try the following --
>>
>> geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif b.tif
>>
>> my b.tif goes from around 321K to 8 bytes. Obviously that is no good,
>> but I can't, for the life me, intuit what the usage would be.
>>
>> Corollary -- I have about a 100 target tifs... b_1.tif, b_2.tif, and
>> so on. I would really like to embed the proj info from a.tif into all
>> of the b_?.tif so what would that usage be?
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
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>



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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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[OSGeo-Discuss] help with geotifcp usage

[P Kishor]

I have a file a.tif with correct proj info embedded in it. I have
another file b.tif with no proj info in it. I want to take the proj
info within a.tif and embed it into b.tif. When I try the following --

geotifcp -g a.tif b.tif b.tif

my b.tif goes from around 321K to 8 bytes. Obviously that is no good,
but I can't, for the life me, intuit what the usage would be.

Corollary -- I have about a 100 target tifs... b_1.tif, b_2.tif, and
so on. I would really like to embed the proj info from a.tif into all
of the b_?.tif so what would that usage be?


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] WMS and layer stacking.

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Christopher Schmidt
 wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 04:33:04PM +0200, P Kishor wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Ian Turton  wrote:
>> > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Bob Basques
>> >  wrote:
>> >> All,
>> >>
>> >> does anyone know if there is a layer hierarchy setting in the WMS service,
>> >> which layers are on top of which layers (Z value=)?
>> >>
>> >
>> > There is an "opaque" hint in the capabilities document that suggests
>> > that the layer should be a base layer. Other than that the layers are
>> > just drawn in the order the client requests them and there is no
>> > implied ordering from the capabilities file. For example GeoServer
>> > returns the layers in alphabetical order by namespace then layer name.
>> >
>>
>>
>> I was quite under the belief that the layers were requested, delivered
>> and drawn in the order they appeared in the map.addLayers([array])
>> invocation.
>
> You're discussing an implementation (OpenLayers), with multiple requests to
> the WMS server being stacked in the client.
>
> This discussion is about the WMS "API".


dang it... you are so right. Show how much my mind is consumed with OL nowadays.


>
> WMS draws layers from bottom to top, from the beginning of the list in the
> 'layers' param to the end.
>
>  layers=foo,bar,baz
>
> will put foo first, then bar, then baz.

Yes indeed.


>
> -- Chris
>
>>
>> > Ian
>> > --
>> > Ian Turton
>> > ___
>> > Discuss mailing list
>> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>




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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] WMS and layer stacking.

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Ian Turton  wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Bob Basques
>  wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> does anyone know if there is a layer hierarchy setting in the WMS service,
>> which layers are on top of which layers (Z value=)?
>>
>
> There is an "opaque" hint in the capabilities document that suggests
> that the layer should be a base layer. Other than that the layers are
> just drawn in the order the client requests them and there is no
> implied ordering from the capabilities file. For example GeoServer
> returns the layers in alphabetical order by namespace then layer name.
>


I was quite under the belief that the layers were requested, delivered
and drawn in the order they appeared in the map.addLayers([array])
invocation.


> Ian
> --
> Ian Turton
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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[OSGeo-Discuss] GIScience 2010

[P Kishor]

I will be at GIScience 2010 in Zurich next week. I would love the
company of like-minded folks, so if anyone of you are there, please
holler.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] UN FAO and FOSS / OSGEO Projects

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 1:36 AM, Paolo Cavallini  wrote:
> Il 21/07/2010 00:35, Joseph Reeves ha scritto:
>>> Now, do you know any other UN FAO sponsored FOSS / Geo projects?
>>
>> Not only software, but data too; the FAO have released Africover data:
>> http://www.africover.org/
>
> Well, not really, it seems:
> ===
> Your request is of a public resource, approval for this resource shall be 
> considered.
>  Please use the user panel at: http://www.africover.org/system/user/ to 
> monitor the
> status of your request and to download the data sets if approved.
>
> Your request will be processed within 14 days.  Should you not receive a 
> response to
> this request in due time, please contact the administrator through the 
> control panel
> for assistance.
>
> Please note that your request will be rejected if you belong to a 
> private/commercial
> organization or if you are an individual user.  As stated in the Africover 
> website
> within the Data Dissemination section, Africover is not allowed to release 
> data to
> individuals or private and commercial organizations.
> ===
> Quite strange, for data classified as "Public domain", isn't it?


heh, heh... In FAO's worldview, it seems, Public Domain means "Don't
give it to public."



>
> All the best.
> --
> Paolo Cavallini: http://www.faunalia.it/pc
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>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Final CALL FOR PAPERS: OneSpace2010

[P Kishor]

-
Final CALL FOR PAPERS: OneSpace2010

[ apologies for multiple copies ]
-

3rd International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital Spaces on
the Internet (OneSpace2010)
http://onespace.kmi.open.ac.uk/2010/

In conjunction with the Future Internet Symposium 2010 (FIS2010)
http://www.fis2010.org/

20 September 2010, Berlin, Germany

++ Deadline for submission: July 23, 2010 ++
++ Full, demos, and position papers invited ++


Objective
--
The third edition of Onespace will continue to offer a venue for the
interdisciplinary exposition, exploration and cross-fertilisation of
trends in how the Internet contributes to blend and modify reality and
real-life technology, with a focus on spatial aspects. The scope will
be open to conceptual, experimental, and technological perspectives
although we envisioned, as usual, a rather applied orientation
supporting more fundamental discussions. The primary notions involved
will be those of (geo)spatial and temporal sensitivity in physical,
digital and virtual contexts, and the blending of digital and virtual
images of space and of the physical realm.

Audience
-
The intended audience of the workshop are researchers and
practitioners for whom spatial issues, broadly conceived, are an
important thematic in relation to their interest in the Future
Internet and Web applications. Typical attendants will be eager to
confront the particular point of view of their discipline or area of
activity in the rich cross-domain context of future Internet
applications. These include GIScientists, cognitive scientists,
Semantic Web researchers, Web technology and virtual community
experts, creators of virtual worlds, social scientists, philosophers
but, also significantly, research engineers such as for example from
various industry sectors.

Submissions

Submissions following the LNCS style must be submitted through
EasyChair (links on the workshop's website) and categorised as one of
the following:

   * Full papers (12 pages max.) on the thematic of the workshop
 from any relevant perspective

   * Demonstration papers (6 pages max.) of prototype applications
 (accepted submissions will be presented as a short demonstration)

   * Position papers (4 pages max.) discussing novel ideas,
 possible experiments, and technological visions

Proceedings of the workshop will be published with CEUR-WS.org.

Important dates

* Submission deadline:  Jul 23, 2010
* Acceptance Notification:  Aug 13, 2010
* Camera-ready paper:   Aug 27, 2010
* Workshop date:Sep 20, 2010

Topics
---
The following is a non-exhaustive list of topics:

   * Knowledge representation for blending virtual and real space
 - Representation of physical/virtual spaces and topologies
 - Ontologies for blending virtual and real space (incl.
   spatiotemporal ontologies, ontologies of physical and
   virtual networks)
 - Spatial and temporal reasoning for blending virtual
   and real space

   * Computing and applications for blending virtual and real space
 - Pervasive, Ambient, and Urban computing
 - Mobility and ubiquity
 - Impact of second-generation Web mapping applications
 - Virtual worlds, digital games and real-life
   and technological applications

   * Digitally blended geographic environments
 - Digital urban environments
 - Geo-located services and sensors on the Web
 - Internet of Things, Internet of People, social
   and physical blending
 - Application of Linked Data for physical and digital spaces

   * The digital, the virtual and the real
 - Digital Sense of Place and Presence
 - Virtual and real identities and places
 - Visibility and privacy in the Internet of people and things


Organisation

* Vlad Tanasescu - The University of Edinburgh, UK
* Pierre Grenon - The Open University, UK
* Arno Scharl - MODUL University Vienna, Austria
* Erik Wilde - UC Berkeley, California, USA

Programme Committee
---
* Susanne Boll -  University of Oldenburg, Germany
* Emanuele Della Valle - Politecnico di Milano & Cefriel, Italy
* Catherine Dolbear - Sharp Laboratories of Europe, UK
* Stefan Dietze - The Open University, UK
* Hans W. Guesgen - Massey University, New Zealand
* Puneet Kishor - University of Wisconsin, USA
* Femke Reitsma - University of Canterbury, NZ
* Vinny Reynolds -  National University of Ireland
* Dumitru Roman - SINTEF, Norway
* Marc Wick - GeoNames.org



The latest information about the workshop can be found at:
http://onespace.kmi.open.ac.uk/2010/

Follow us on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/onespace2010

Contact: onespace2...@easychair.org
_

[OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS

[P Kishor]

top posting a follow-up to an inquiry re. open source cadastral/lrm systems --

The inquiry was regarding implementation in Ecuador (by SA, I meant
South America, not South Africa -- apologies for the repeated
confusion I caused).

As of Jun 22 (my last conversation with my friend who initiated this
query), they had received an ok to post a notice in "Development
Business," (which, I assume, is either a paper/online/both outlet for
international jobs) for entities with interest and experience in open
source solutions in cadastral/lrm systems. They would then invited the
respondents to demonstrate their solutions, perhaps 5-10 key
functions/applications. Those that respond to the demonstration phase,
and do so adequately (whatever that means), would be invited to bid on
the project.

I have sent another email off to my friend to determine if the notice
in dev. biz has already gone out, and if there is a link to it
somewhere. I will keep the list posted if I learn something new.


On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:12 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you
> separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to
> this query.
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
>> does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such
>> a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using
>> a completely open source stack?
>>
>
> A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that
> all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source.
> A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current cadastral and
> registry records management system running on a commercial,
> closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want to expand
> from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis, and to
> eventually cover the entire country in the next decade. Their desire
> is to try replicate the current system using open source software.
>
> They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily based on the
> amount spent on programming the current system (not including the
> licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is to spend a
> similar amount programming an open source solution that can be
> replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional cost for the
> software licenses.
>
> They have seen at least one other open source cadastral system
> implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system to be very
> weak, amateurish.
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
> Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
> Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
> Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
> Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
> ---
> Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
> ===
>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:54 PM, STEPHEN STANTON
 wrote:
> Hi Puneet,
>
> Now I'm having fun trying to guess where you're talking about! I just read 
> about an ArcGIS-based pilot that was done a couple of years ago for Zanzibar 
> - so is it Tanzania?

You are off by a continent. SA = South America, not South African. In
any case, Tanzania née Zanzibar would be Eastern Africa, no?


>
> Please ignore me if you're not at liberty to name names.

I don't know if I can name names, so I am withholding on doing so
until I can determine for sure.

>
> Steve Stanton
>
> --- On Tue, 22/6/10, P Kishor  wrote:
>
>> From: P Kishor 
>> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS
>> To: "OSGeo Discussions" 
>> Date: Tuesday, 22 June, 2010, 6:12
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each
>> one of you
>> separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more
>> info to
>> this query.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor 
>> wrote:
>> > does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm
>> that develops such
>> > a product catering to cadastral and land records
>> management, but using
>> > a completely open source stack?
>> >
>>
>> A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new
>> policy that
>> all software at the national level must be non-commercial
>> open source.
>> A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current
>> cadastral and
>> registry records management system running on a
>> commercial,
>> closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want
>> to expand
>> from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis,
>> and to
>> eventually cover the entire country in the next decade.
>> Their desire
>> is to try replicate the current system using open source
>> software.
>>
>> They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily
>> based on the
>> amount spent on programming the current system (not
>> including the
>> licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is
>> to spend a
>> similar amount programming an open source solution that can
>> be
>> replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional
>> cost for the
>> software licenses.
>>
>> They have seen at least one other open source cadastral
>> system
>> implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system
>> to be very
>> weak, amateurish.
>>
>> --
>> Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
>> Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
>> Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
>> Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
>> Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
>> ---
>> Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with
>> evidence is science
>> ===
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
> ___
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Michael P. Gerlek  wrote:
>> > A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that
>> > all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source.
>>
>> One of these clauses makes sense, one of them does not. Why would you
>> limit yourself to *non* commercial Open Source?
>
> (I parsed the original as meaning "non-commercial [and] open" source, with 
> "non-commercial" being a technically incorrect but informally understood term 
> meaning "not proprietary" -- redundant, in this case, with the use of the 
> term "open".)

Correct. In other words, something they don't have to pay a license
fee for underlying software, and that allows them to peer under the
hood and modify and adapt as needed. Of course, they will pay for the
cost of development, but will save on repeat installations.

All the software that we concern ourselves with on this list falls in
the above category.



>
> -mpg
>
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>



-- 
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Christopher Schmidt
 wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:12:43AM -0500, P Kishor wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you
>> separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to
>> this query.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
>> > does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such
>> > a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using
>> > a completely open source stack?
>> >
>>
>> A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that
>> all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source.
>
> One of these clauses makes sense, one of them does not. Why would you
> limit yourself to *non* commercial Open Source?

I am just the messenger, so I don't know the reason why.


> Don't people realize
> that hiring someone with expertise in a field is sometimes better --
> depending on your in-house expertise that exists -- than learning it
> all on your own?

I think they do want to hire someone with expertise. They are willing
to pay for it. Hence the query.

>
> Open Source isn't supposed to mean 'free' :( At least they're
> acknowledging that there will be some costs, but overall, I feel icky
> whenever I see someone say things like 'non-commercial open source';
> the whole point of the 'open' part is that it shouldn't be a problem
> if it's commercial.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Christopher Schmidt
> Web Developer
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Re: land records management with open source GIS

[P Kishor]

Hi all,

Thanks for replying, everyone. Instead of replying to each one of you
separately, I am replying to myself, primarily to add more info to
this query.

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:24 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
> does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such
> a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using
> a completely open source stack?
>

A friend of mine is working in a SA country that has a new policy that
all software at the national level must be non-commercial open source.
A nice idea, but it plays havoc with their current cadastral and
registry records management system running on a commercial,
closed-source (well known) software platform. They now want to expand
from a few municipality pilot to 10 times as many munis, and to
eventually cover the entire country in the next decade. Their desire
is to try replicate the current system using open source software.

They have an estimate for the programming job, primarily based on the
amount spent on programming the current system (not including the
licenses for the base, commercial software). Their hope is to spend a
similar amount programming an open source solution that can be
replicated in the 200 or so munis without any additional cost for the
software licenses.

They have seen at least one other open source cadastral system
implemented in a country in Africa, but found that system to be very
weak, amateurish.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
===
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[OSGeo-Discuss] land records management with open source GIS

[P Kishor]

does anyone know of an existing product, or a firm that develops such
a product catering to cadastral and land records management, but using
a completely open source stack?

-- 
Puneet Kishor
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Bruce Bannerman  wrote:
> Cameron,
>
> Well stated.
>
> As an organisation that is implementing Open Source spatial, we are looking
> to applications that have graduated from OSGeo Incubation as an indication
> of quality.
>
> If this is not the case, as has been indicated in this thread, then IMHO, we
> as OSGeo need to devise an approach that will allow organisations to select
> quality applications for deployment.
>
> The last thing that anyone wants is for a major player to implement a poor
> quality application and have problems with the bad publicity that would
> follow.
>
> We cannot expect that knowledgeable OS Spatial people will always be doing
> product selection. This is often a function assigned to an IT group through
> Enterprise IT Governance processes. The people doing the selection, may or
> may not have appropriate skills and experience.

Due diligence, caveat emptor and all. If the people doing selection
don't have appropriate skills and experience, then those people should
be replaced with people who have the appropriate skills and experience
to do the selection. Makes me shudder to think that not only might we
have inexperienced and inappropriate people at the helm, we are
willing to accept them there instead of changing them.


>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> On 9/06/10 8:24 AM, "Cameron Shorter"  wrote:
>
> Michael,
> Your comments have been good in that they have made me think deeper
> about what OSGeo stands for and then how we market that. Successful
> product companies first find out what the market wants, the build a
> marketing message, then build the product to fit the market. Developing
> a shiny product then discovering no-one wants it is a sad but common story.
>
> In our case, we have created a brand called "OSGeo Incubation". What
> does that mean? Why is it valuable? How can we get that message across
> to our target market of GIS users who are interested in Open Source but
> don't know what OSGeo is?
>
> If OSGeo Incubation doesn't represent quality or maturity (which is what
> the market are looking for) then what is the point of spending years of
> volunteer time going through incubation?
>
> I'm afraid that "OSGeo Project" is not a compelling sales message to our
> target market, unless we can tie the message to quality or maturity (or
> another word with similar meaning).
>
> Unless we can provide such positive marketing, I expect that we will
> have spin off projects or organisations "defect" from OSGeo create their
> own marketing message. (I wouldn't be surprise if OpenGeo had similar
> thoughts before they created and then marketed the OpenGeo suite.)
>
> Marketing like everything else has positives and negatives.
> Positives:
> + Lots of users which draws in money and developers and we all make
> money and thrive
>
> Negatives:
> - We need to distill our messages down into marketing sound bytes and
> generalised rating systems and the like
>
> - We need to be honest in describing ours and others projects because
> that is what the market wants to hear before they will spend money on us
>
>
> On 08/06/10 09:17, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
>> Since this is an OSGeo-based CD, presumably with the OSGeo logo all over
>> it in various places, I'd suggest there are only three kinds of projects:
>>
>>   - those which are "Approved by OSGeo"
>>   - those which are "Undergoing OSGeo Approval"
>>   - everything else
>>
>> With two simple logos you can indicate projects of the first two
>> categories; I don't think much explanation should be required up front,
>> especially if one avoids jargon words like "graduated" and "incubation".
>>
>> -mpg
>>
>>
>> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
>> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:57 PM
>> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating
>>
>> There have been some passionate views against rating projects.
>>
>> Maybe I should start by explaining the drivers which led to the proposal
>> for a 5 star rating.
>>
>> Previously only OSGeo graduated and incubation projects were promoted by
>> OSGeo at conferences and the like, however, with the OSGeo LiveDVD, we are
>> packaging and hence promoting many non-graduated projects. How do we credit
>> that a project has gone through the extensive graduation process in our
>> marketing material in a manner that will be understood by the target
>> audience?
>>
>> Unfortunately, putting "OSGeo Graduated" against a project is meaningless
>> because the target audience usually hasn't heard of OSGeo and is even less
>> likely to know what "Graduated" means.
>>
>> We could write a paragrah explaining what OSGeo and Graduation are on each
>> Project Overview flier, but that wastes valuable marketing real-estate.
>>
>> Note: I'm basing our target audience on the typical profile of people who
>> drop by the OSGeo booth at conferences. They pick up a LiveDVD and fli

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 5 Star OSGeo project maturity rating

[P Kishor]

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Daniel Morissette
 wrote:
> Cameron,
>
> AFAIK the objective of incubation is *NOT* to rate the maturity of projects:
> it is to verify that they have an open and active users and developers
> community, open and documented decision and development processes, that the
> source code is free from IP issues, and that as such the project seems
> viable and OSGeo is ready to stand behind it. That's the way incubation
> works today and I don't think we can go beyond that without hurting some
> people and eventually fragmenting our community.
>
> Of course it is easier for more mature projects to pass all those tests, but
> graduating incubation is not a software (source code) maturity indicator.
>
> Nowhere in the incubation process do we evaluate the quality, robustness,
> performance, user-friendlyness, usability, etc. of the software... so I
> repeat it: a star rating based solely on incubation status would mislead the
> users and could have some ill side-effects.
>

I agree with Daniel. Star ratings are misguided. Stars convey a
value-judgment that is neither intentional, nor calculated nor meant
to be conveyed. Nevertheless, a browser looking at a project that is
rated 3 stars versus a project that is rated 5 stars is bound to take
away an "opinion" that was never meant to be given.

Just state clearly what "graduated from incubation" means, indicate
whether a project has graduated or not, and then let the browser/user
decide.


> Daniel
>
> Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>
>> Jason,
>> I agree that it is important that any rating system has had a lot of
>> thought put behind it, which is why I've suggested using the existing OSGeo
>> graduation rating system - which has had input from many of us in the OSGeo
>> community.
>>
>> I do think that Andrea has highlighted a couple of additional points which
>> should be rolled into the OSGeo incubation criteria - but until that
>> happens, we should use what we have, which is guidelines for projects going
>> into incubation (assigned 3 stars), and criteria for projects completing
>> graduation (assigned 4 stars).
>>
>>
>> Bruce Bannerman wrote:
>>>
>>> Jason / Cameron,
>>>
>>> >From the potential utiliser / implementer viewpoint:
>>>
>>> I’d like to think that any project that has graduated OSGeo Incubation
>>> could be considered a quality project with all of the vectors described by
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>>> This proposed rating system implies that this may not be the case.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>
>>
>> Daniel Morissette wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm also not too keen on a star ranking system, especially if it is
>>> mostly based on having passed incubation or not.
>>>
>>> To me, passing incubation is more an indication of good process
>>> management and long term viability than an indication of software
>>> quality/robustness and ability to really solve the user's needs. However, a
>>> star ranking system makes me think of hotel/restaurant rating and would
>>> mislead the user to think that a software with 4 stars (because it passed
>>> incubation) does a better job than others with 2 or 3 which is not
>>> necessarily the case.
>>>
>>> If the goal is to denote whether a project has passed incubation or not
>>> then let's call the rating that way (which is what we currently do when we
>>> differentiate between graduated and in-incubation projects on
>>> www.osgeo.org). If we want to create a "project maturity rating" then it
>>> will have to take into account several variables as Andrea wrote earlier...
>>> and then defining those variables and evaluating each piece of software
>>> against them will be quite a task.
>>>
>>> In the end, I just wanted to register the fact that I too am worried
>>> about the possible side-effects of a poorly handled rating system on our
>>> communities.
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>> Cameron Shorter wrote:

 On 06/06/10 10:14, Jason Birch wrote:
>
> IMHO getting into rating projects is just asking for trouble,
> infighting, bitterness, and people/projects walking away from OSGeo.
>

 Jason, this is a valid concern with decent founding. However I think the
 potential for conflict is not as bad as you may think, and there is a very
 strong user community desire for, and value to be gained from such ratings.

 1. We already have a rating system, based upon:
 * Project has completed incubation
 * Project is in incubation
 * Project is not in incubation
 What I'm suggesting is that we apply a star system to these stages.

 2. We already have a criteria for defining this rating, (which may be
 refined), which reduces the subjectiveness and hence the potential for
 conflict.

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
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[OSGeo-Discuss] CFP - 3rd International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital Spaces on the Internet (OneSpace2010)

[P Kishor]

http://onespace.kmi.open.ac.uk/2010/


-
CALL FOR PAPERS: OneSpace2010



3rd International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital Spaces on
the Internet (OneSpace2010)
http://onespace.kmi.open.ac.uk/2010/

In conjunction with the Future Internet Symposium 2010 (FIS2010)
http://www.fis2010.org/

20 September 2010, Berlin, Germany

++ Deadline for submission: July 23, 2010 ++
++ Full, demos, and position papers invited ++


Objective
--
The third edition of Onespace will continue to offer a venue for the
interdisciplinary exposition, exploration and cross-fertilisation of
trends in how the Internet contributes to blend and modify reality and
real-life technology, with a focus on spatial aspects. The scope will
be open to conceptual, experimental, and technological perspectives
although we envisioned, as usual, a rather applied orientation
supporting more fundamental discussions. The primary notions involved
will be those of (geo)spatial and temporal sensitivity in physical,
digital and virtual contexts, and the blending of digital and virtual
images of space and of the physical realm.

Audience
-
The intended audience of the workshop are researchers and
practitioners for whom spatial issues, broadly conceived, are an
important thematic in relation to their interest in the Future
Internet and Web applications. Typical attendants will be eager to
confront the particular point of view of their discipline or area of
activity in the rich cross-domain context of future Internet
applications. These include GIScientists, cognitive scientists,
Semantic Web researchers, Web technology and virtual community
experts, creators of virtual worlds, social scientists, philosophers
but, also significantly, research engineers such as for example from
various industry sectors.

Submissions

Submissions following the LNCS style must be submitted through
EasyChair (links on the workshop's website) and categorised as one of
the following:

* Full papers (12 pages max.) on the thematic of the workshop
  from any relevant perspective

* Demonstration papers (6 pages max.) of prototype applications
  (accepted submissions will be presented as a short demonstration)

* Position papers (4 pages max.) discussing novel ideas,
  possible experiments, and technological visions

Important dates

* Submission deadline:  Jul 23, 2010
* Acceptance Notification:  Aug 13, 2010
* Camera-ready paper:   Aug 27, 2010
* Workshop date:Sep 20, 2010

Topics
---
The following is a non-exhaustive list of topics:

* Knowledge representation for blending virtual and real space
  - Representation of physical/virtual spaces and topologies
  - Ontologies for blending virtual and real space (incl.
spatiotemporal ontologies, ontologies of physical and
virtual networks)
  - Spatial and temporal reasoning for blending virtual
and real space

* Computing and applications for blending virtual and real space
  - Pervasive, Ambient, and Urban computing
  - Mobility and ubiquity
  - Impact of second-generation Web mapping applications
  - Virtual worlds, digital games and real-life
and technological applications

* Digitally blended geographic environments
  - Digital urban environments
  - Geo-located services and sensors on the Web
  - Internet of Things, Internet of People, social
and physical blending
  - Application of Linked Data for physical and digital spaces

* The digital, the virtual and the real
  - Digital Sense of Place and Presence
  - Virtual and real identities and places
  - Visibility and privacy in the Internet of people and things



The latest information about the workshop can be found at:
http://onespace.ace.ed.ac.uk/2010/

Contact: onespace2...@easychair.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: postgis vs osx sleep

[P Kishor]

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 10:35 AM, William Kyngesburye
 wrote:
> I've had Postgres on my MacBook for years, across 3 system versions, and I 
> haven't had problems with mysterious waking.  ..
>

I have been running Pg (since v 8.3.x to the latest) on my Macbook,
always compiled from source code. No insomnia problems here  as well.


> On May 9, 2010, at 2:38 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>
>> I was unable to get the indicated installer working; will report back if I 
>> learn anything :-(
>>
>> On 09/05/2010, at 5:01 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>
>>> I just tried cooking my laptop after working with postgis for a bit. After 
>>> throwing it into a laptop bag I was surprised to find the bag chirp at me; 
>>> after 30mins. Turns out postgres was keeping it running; and running in a 
>>> confined space is not the best idea.
>>>
>>> After a bit of a cool down I found the following:
>>> - 
>>> http://cutedgesystems.com/weblog/index.php?entry=/Technology/PostgreSQLInstaller.txt
>>>
>>> Jody




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[OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [OSGeo-Standards] TMS and WMTS

[P Kishor]

Arnulf wrote

>> We have a MoU that gave us 6 OGC member slots for OSGeo folks and NONE of
>> them are currently in use. That sucks.

Fwiw, I am interested in stepping up to bridge between OSGeo and OGC.
I have some interest in this, particularly from the IP/legal side, but
enough to spill into other matters as well. I am fairly leery about my
ability to commit time, and then follow through because of being
generally over-committed, but it is definitely worth a serious effort
on my part.

Fill me in on what it takes?


On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Raj Singh  wrote:
> Nice comment Arnulf. OGC really moves via the time and effort put in by
> members. There's no reason to create a false OGC vs. OSGeo dichotomy. If
> OSGeo uses their membership slots and puts the time in to write one or two
> documents and participate on mailing lists, their impact can be as great as
> any.
>
> ---
> Raj
>
>
> On Apr 7, at 9:37 AM, Seven (aka Arnulf) wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Schuyler Erle wrote:
>>>
>>> * On  6-Apr-2010 at  6:13PM EDT, Cameron Shorter said:
>>>
 Suggested improvement: The OGC should weight OGC testbed funding to
 favour  Open Source implementations, as the implementations are
 significantly more valuable to OGC sponsors and the greater GIS
 community as the implementations are made available for free.
>>>
>>> One last point: The OGC should take the final suggestion made by
>>> Cameron very seriously.
>>>
>>> SDE
>>
>> Folks,
>> thanks for the quick feedback.
>>
>> Testbed funding is pretty irrelevant in terms of helping us solve the
>> communication issues with the OGC. The main OGC sponsors are proprietary
>> software vendors. Tell me how Open Source implementations are
>> significantly more valuable to them. :-) On top of this test bed work is
>> rather boring, badly funded and has low recognition. But maybe I just
>> miss a point here. Who wants to get testbed funding? Please ask me,
>> maybe we can work something out, there are several interested EU projects.
>>
>> Let me add a quick note form my perspective. I was in the middle of
>> trying to bridge between OGC and OSGeo around the tiling discussion.
>> This culminated in an IRC chat with Chris Schmidt during an OGC plenary
>> discussion and asking him whether the current take of the OGC's draft is
>> implementable or not. He answered 20 minutes later: "Yes, I implemented
>> it". That was cool. It just does not happen very often. But it shows
>> that we are not half as disconnected as some suggestions might make us
>> believe, except in our minds. And it always takes two sides to actually
>> *want* to connect. The want-this bit on OSGeo's side lacks. This is not
>> an opinion but my experience. Where does this frustration come from?
>>
>> I wonder whether OSGeo could also improve on something. All suggestions
>> up to now point to the OGC needing to this or that. Let me ask back:
>> What could OSGeo do to improve? It is not like the OSGeo tiling
>> standards dominate the world, do they? If we really want to contribute
>> to the standards world in a meaningful way we should take this serious
>> and not just complain.
>>
>> If you ask: Who is the OGC? Then the answer is the same as for OSGeo:
>> "Their respective members!" Now, who are the members of OGC? Believe me
>> when I say that some more FOSS folks there would make me very happy. We
>> have a MoU that gave us 6 OGC member slots for OSGeo folks and NONE of
>> them are currently in use. That sucks.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Arnulf.
>>
>> PS:
>> Most CC'd folks are on the standards list anyway so I dropped them.
>>
>> - --
>> Arnulf Christl
>>





-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Whitebox GAT (Chris Puttick)

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
 wrote:
> P Kishor wrote:
>> Listen, I personally appreciate the zeal for open sourcing software
>> and data (most of my personal religion is based on the belief that
>> open data are better for everyone), but trash talking closed software
>> makes the whole world blind.
>
> Of course we never trash talk other open source languages either, do we?
>  Where would we be without all the good arguments for Python vs the
> 'others'... ;-)  Sorry, couldn't resist.
>
> Just to say, we have done pretty good on this list avoiding platform or
> language wars, but I am interested to learn what
> strengths/features/ease-of-use others find in their language of choice.
>   Just to be better educated, not to flame anyone.
>


It will lead to religious wars inevitably... weaknesses and strengths
of language are probably better discussed on specific language forums.
Probably other forums are appropriate, but OSGeo-discuss is too
generic for it, imo.

That said, I am finding Python advocates increasingly insufferable;
their wonder at "look at this wonderful thing I discovered I can do"
bores me to tears, and their enthusiasm for white space in code that
actually
  means something
  is just
bewildering.

;-)


-- 
just another hacker of a language whose name begins with P
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Whitebox GAT (Chris Puttick)

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Chris Puttick
 wrote:
> Please understand I am in no way criticising your software, which sounds of 
> interest although out of reach for me. I am also highly appreciative of the 
> work you and others like you put into developing solutions which you then 
> share with others and I do what I can to contribute too. I am just hoping to 
> persuade you and others that .net has far more bad points than good and to 
> consider using a different software development framework/tools in the future.
>
> I find it sensible to stare warily at gift-horses associated with companies 
> whose primary stated purpose is the maximisation of shareholder value. 
> Paid-for software of the "license to use" variety is a legacy concept 
> fighting hard for survival; those companies whose entire business model is 
> paid-for software are seeking all sorts of methods to ensure they can 
> continue to profit from those business models.

You make that assertion based on what evidence? Any citations?
Slideshow presentations and keynote addresses at conferences don't
count.

Surely the fact that a bunch of us open source aficionados have a
number of projects we work on and talk about does not an evidence make
that paid-for software is fighting hard for survival. Let me see... 26
million copies of Mac OS X, 45 million copies of iPhone OS... and that
is only single digit percentage of worldwide operating system share,
more than 90%+ of which is Windows -- a "legacy software fighting hard
for survival"? I think not.

Listen, I personally appreciate the zeal for open sourcing software
and data (most of my personal religion is based on the belief that
open data are better for everyone), but trash talking closed software
makes the whole world blind.

My personal belief is that the most powerful programming language in
the world is the one you know. The Whitehouse GAT developers happen to
be versed in .NET. Let us appreciate what they are doing, and learn
from it... as I said earlier, good ideas cross-pollinate, so it can
only be good for the entire software ecosystem.


> The majority of methods being adopted are, like .net, all about lock-in, 
> about making it harder and more costly to move from the incumbent (and 
> encumbered) solution. Hence why I would suggest the use of that particular 
> framework (and there are so many to chose from that are as good or better, 
> even before taking into account the cross-platform bonus feature) is a bad 
> thing; its apparent convenience hides a massive cost base, both upfront and 
> TCO.
>
> My job, as sad as it may be, is strategic. I have to think about the future 
> of the organisation for which I work with two over-riding drivers for the 
> decisions I make in my area of responsibility: make it better and make it 
> cheaper. The former requires usability, flexibility, maximisation of choice, 
> and functionality; the latter requires elimination of lock-in to ensure the 
> lowest cost options can be considered. Both tend to mean open solutions are 
> given a high weighting. I can't focus on the immediacy of convenience, as so 
> many of my peers have; evidence has shown the end result is no more money is 
> made/saved by the use of IT than is spent on the IT and all too often less.
>
> So that means absolutely no .net. Applications written against mono are more 
> likely to be considered, although I personally believe that developing mono 
> as a poor relation clone of .net is a mistake and a tragic waste of effort; 
> innovation is required to disrupt, not poor copies. Almost all of the 
> software we are deploying in the organisation, GIS or otherwise, is entirely 
> platform neutral. Versions exist that can run on many operating systems and 
> even different processor architectures. Software we are developing internally 
> we endeavour to make as open as possible in the same spirit; for example 
> gvSIG OADE is made available compiled for Mac OSX of which we have exactly 
> 0/300 computers using.
>
> I guess it is a matter of perspective. I want to have the widest set of 
> choices professionally and personally want the largest number of choices to 
> be available for others. Those who sell software licences want choices to be 
> limited to their platform, whether that be operating system or ERP tools. I'd 
> like to have the choice to try your app, which has interesting user education 
> opportunities, but it would remove the choice of desktop operating system. 
> Ahh well.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Puttick
> CIO
> Oxford Archaeology: Exploring the Human Journey
> Direct: +44 (0)1865 980 718
> Switchboard: +44 (0)1865 263 800
> Mobile: +44 (0)7908 997 146
> http://thehumanjourney.net
>
>
> - "John Lindsay"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Thank you for your feedback. I think, however, you might be staring a
>> gift horse in the mouth. I write software primarily because I need it
>> and am happy to share it with others. For me, open-source is about
>> sharing

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mailing list for .NET work?

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Michael P. Gerlek  wrote:
> I'm thinking there might be a reasonable number of .NET folks lurking around 
> here, and that it might be nice to have a mailing list for .NET-specific open 
> source geo work -- what projects are being done, what issues people have, 
> etc, etc.
>
> If interested, send email (to me or to list, at your preference) and we'll 
> see how much support there is.
>
> [Pls don't hijack this thread for arguing about how open/closed .NET is.]
>


Actually, I would encourage you to discuss it right here, unless you
want to focus on a specific project's development work, in which case
an OSGeo--dev kinda list might be more suitable.

I would love to vicariously learn more about what is going on in other
programming worlds, otherwise I would be clueless about them.



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Whitebox GAT (Chris Puttick)

[P Kishor]

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 9:18 AM, John Lindsay  wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thank you for your feedback. I think, however, you might be staring a gift
> horse in the mouth. I write software primarily because I need it and am
> happy to share it with others. For me, open-source is about sharing ideas,
> innovating, and improving education. I'm fortunate that I don't need to rely
> on my programming to make money. Like most computer users, I use Windows and
> .NET is the framework that we have. It's an excellent framework, despite
> what some may think of the company that developed it. I understand that many
> people chose other operating systems (and good for them!) but I'm also aware
> that the Mono framework allows for the possibility of running Whitebox GAT
> on Linux/Mac. There are currently people working on porting Whitebox over
> using Mono. I suspect, however, that there are some out there who would
> still not be pleased with the use of Mono as a framework. The fact of the
> matter is that not everybody will be happy all of the time. If this isn't
> the solution that suits you, I'm sure there are others that are more suited.
> And that's fine by me. It's just nice that people out there are working hard
> every day to ensure that you have choices, isn't it?
>

As a very happy Mac user of a gorgeous proprietary interface on top of
an open source operating system, I say to you, "Very well said."
Thanks for creating this and working on this. Even though I won't use
it (right away) I am sure many will benefit from Whitebox GAT, and
others will borrow good ideas from it. Benefit all around.

Keep up the great work.





> --
> John Lindsay, Ph.D., Assistant Professor
> Dept. of Geography, Univ. of Guelph
> Guelph, Ont. N1G 2W1   CANADA
> Phone: (519) 824-4120 x56074
> Fax: (519) 837-2940
> Email:  jlind...@uoguelph.ca
> Department Web: www.uoguelph.ca/geography/
> Personal Web: http://www.uoguelph.ca/geography/people/faculty/lindsay.shtml
>
>
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mailing List for jquery geo development

[P Kishor]

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Arnulf Christl  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Folks,
> we had a good BoF at FOSSGIS about leveraging jQuery in Geo. There
> already are several initiatives, single developments and interest from
> some projects. Till Adams has set up a Wiki to collect some of them
> under the url geojquery.org. Feel free to log in and comment.
>

As I am a big fan of jQuery, and use it for everything (including
making and serving breakfast), I say, what an excellent idea this is.

Now, there is a project called jMaps (see
http://github.com/digitalspaghetti/jmaps/) which may have some work
already done... at least in concept. It wraps jQuery around Gmaps API.
Also, I once created a rubber-band zoom dingus using jQuery. I will
have to dig it out of the attic.



> - From the scope of the idea it seems to make sense to set up a dedicated
> mailing list. I suggested to use OSGeo infrastructure as it makes it
> easier to find, maintain, etc.
>
> The next BoF will be on March 12th in Girona:
> http://twitter.com/sevenspatial/statuses/10069360726
>
> SAC,
> can you please set up a mailing list named "geojquery"? I volunteer as
> list admin.
>
> Once the list is up and prodictive we will announce it on this list
> again. After that you have to follow progress there.
>
> Best regards,
> Arnulf.
>
> - --
> Arnulf Christl
>
> Exploring Space, Time and Mind
> http://arnulf.us
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkuSRo8ACgkQXmFKW+BJ1b3YwACePPx0OTMoStfJl2dRQOV2kBji
> r2cAnirdsh3prJ295xbfQl5g7iw00ABd
> =FeSb
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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-- 
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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[OSGeo-Discuss] long-term data interoperability

[P Kishor]

Last week I gave a presentation titled "Long-term data
interoperability" at a meeting on "e-Infrastructure for Scientific
Data" at the European Commission in Brussels.

You might find the presentation of interest as everything in it is
applicable to spatial data. The presentation is accessible at
http://www.punkish.org/e-Infrastructure-for-Scientific-Data

If you have any comments, please email me directly. I would be very
happy receiving feedback.




-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Fwd: COM.Geo 2010 (Computing for Geospatial) Washington, DC - Call for Submissions]

[P Kishor]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Alex Mandel  wrote:
> Just hit my radar, hadn't heard about it before. Anyone familiar with
> this conference/org? - Alex
>


I could be wrong, but sounds like a scam-ference, speling misstakes and all.



>
>
> =
>                              COM.Geo 2010
>                        http://www.com-geo.org
>
> 1st International Conference and Exhibition on Computing for Geospatial
>                    8-11 June 2010 Washington, DC
> =
>
> The explosion of computing driven location based applications in the past
> few years has revolutionized the way we live and work. COM.Geo is an
> international conference and exhibition on computing for geospatial, which
> focuses on the latest computing technologies for multidisciplinary
> research
> and development that enables the exploration in geospatial. COM.Geo is
> an exclusive event that connects researchers, developers, scientists, and
> application users in both computing and geospatial fields.
>
> --
> COM.Geo 2010 Conference Spotlight: Cloud Computing and Geospatial
> --
>
> CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS
>
> COM.Geo is a leading-edge conference for computing for geospatial. We
> invite you to submit research or application papers, tech talks, and
> special
> sessions, to organize courses and workshops. Suggested topics include all
> computing, geospatial, and applications. The complete details are at:
> http://www.com-geo.org.
>
> Papers
> 
> This program includes full or short papers. Both can address research or
> application work.
>
> Courses
> -
> Courses can be proposed by scholars or company representatives. A
> Courses Program will share the very best of computing for geospatial
> technologies, such as cloud computing for geospatial, business intelligence
> & GIS, Web GIS, mobile GIS, etc.
>
> Tech Talks
> ---
> These are work in progress, late-breaking research, emerging technologies,
> case studies, development techniques, student projects, and exhibitior
> technical talks. Either a regular abstract or an extended abstract can be
> submitted.
>
> Invited Sessions
> 
> Invited sessions offer focused discussions on specialized topics in Papers
> Programs. They can be organized in a specific or a general theme. Proposals
> are required to submit.
>
> Workshops
> 
> Workshop proposals are solicited for COM.Geo 2010 in Washington, DC.
>
> IMPORTANT SUBMISSION DEADLINES
>
> Full and Short Papers:          February 19, 2010, 11:59 PM EST
> Courses Proposal:               February 19, 2010
> Tech Talks Abstract:           March 22, 2010, 11:59 PM EST
> Invited Sessions Proposal:   January 25, 2009
> Workshops:   Proposal:       January 25, 2009
>
>
>



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Cameron Shorter
 wrote:
> Puneet,
> I don't have a specific answer for "How Much LISAsoft's OpenLS code costs to
> Open Source" yet, I'd need to do the analysis, and so I'll talk in general
> terms, based on my experience with other projects.
>

Fair enough. If and when you do finish your analysis, I would be very
interested in knowing the cost of OpenLS code. Knowing how much is
something is the first step in determining whether or not it is worth
it to me, so I would like to know what its "sale" price is.


> 1. For LISAsoft, "Just dumping code into Sourceforge" is usually not an
> option. Our reputation is based upon our understanding of Open Source and
> producing quality software, and it would be detrimental to our image, and
> hence our future job prospects to do a poor job.
>

Very understandable. Of course, the above implies that the code is not
ready to be put (replacing the value laden term "dumped" with the more
benign "put") into Soureforge. I am assuming you have already paying
customers for it though (more on that below), so they have probably
already put a price on it, and considered it of worthy quality.


> 2. For simple projects, Open Sourcing can easily at least a few weeks, to
> put processes and web sites in place. But the bigger cost is growing and
> supporting the community, maybe one person day per week, for the rest of the
> year. I heard that Autodesk decided to provide a major re-write of their
> MapGuide Open Source software before Open Sourcing, which would likely have
> cost them man months, probably man years.
>

What if you had a website? Hypothetically speaking, what if OSGeo said
that they would provide the server and repo and mailing list, etc.?
Wouldn't that take off some of the "packaging" cost?


> 3. Yes, LISAsoft will miss out on opportunity costs because we derive
> commercial advantage by owning an OpenLS codebase.

Ahhh! So, there is a perceived advantage to keeping the source closed,
which kinda works counter to the perceived advantage of opening up the
source -- the general assumption is that, if successful, open sourcing
will bring more attention, rapid development and improvement, more
bugs being flushed out, more awareness, hence, possibly, more
customers, yadda yadda.


>
> At the end of the day, our decision will be financial. Can we make more
> money by Open Sourcing or not. At LISAsoft we support both Open and Closed
> source business models, depending on which makes better business sense.
>

No doubt. I find it fascinating that closed source business models
make sense in a primarily open source world (whereby "world," I mean
the OSGeo world). I just presumed that as far as source code was
concerned, the primary mindset and approach of everyone would be that
open was better than closed. Seems like there are, possibly many,
cases where this is not so.

There are a couple of things I have learned from this thread --

1. "Internal," somewhat mature, projects, owned by a commercial
entity, that are currently closed source throw up a lot more thinking
before they can be made open source;

2. This is something I just had never thought about. I need to study
this a lot more, in greater detail and breadth.

Many thanks Cameron, for your patience and answers.


> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Daniel Morissette
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> P Kishor wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> P Kishor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>> LISAsoft has a java implementation of OpenLS which we would like to
>>>>>>> Open
>>>>>>> Source if we can find a sponsor to cover our packaging costs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What kind of costs are "packaging costs," and what do they amount to
>>>>>> generally, and for OpenLS, more specifically?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> P Kishor,
>>>>> As you are probably aware, just dumping code into sourceforge is not an
>>>>> effective way to start a successful Open Source project.
>>>>> There needs to be suitable  technical documentation, development
>>>>> processes
>>>>> docume

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Daniel Morissette
 wrote:
> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Cameron Shorter
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> P Kishor wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>> LISAsoft has a java implementation of OpenLS which we would like to
>>>>> Open
>>>>> Source if we can find a sponsor to cover our packaging costs.
>>>>>
>>>> What kind of costs are "packaging costs," and what do they amount to
>>>> generally, and for OpenLS, more specifically?
>>>>
>>> P Kishor,
>>> As you are probably aware, just dumping code into sourceforge is not an
>>> effective way to start a successful Open Source project.
>>> There needs to be suitable  technical documentation, development
>>> processes
>>> documentation, web pages set up, issue trackers put in place, access
>>> writes
>>> granted to developers, and then have at least one champion sit on email
>>> lists supporting new users.
>>> That is what I consider "packaging costs".
>>
>> The above makes sense, but honestly, I had never heard of this until
>> now, and I have been tinkering with open source for almost a decade
>> now. Most open source projects seemed organic to me. Someone had an
>> itch, they scratched it, they put it out, and the project either
>> gathered traction, or it died. Seems like my scholarship of open
>> source has been lacking in this aspect hugely.
>>
>
> Hi Puneet,
>
> I have to run now, so I don't have time for a long answer, but I just wanted
> to add that Cameron is right... unfortunately it's not as simple as setting
> up a project on sourceforge even if it may seem to be that way from the
> user's perspective.
>
> I have been through the process of open sourcing projects several times over
> the last 10 years, and did it again a few weeks ago with the GeoPrisma
> launch. I think we are getting better at it as we gain experience, and can
> confirm that those packaging costs and planning requirements are real and
> need to be taken into account for a successful project launch. Another
> aspect to consider that I don't think was mentioned is to balance the pros
> and cons of open sourcing and not doing it on your own business and on the
> project/product itself.
>

Based on Daniel's response, a thought occurred to me -- my inquiry in
this thread might be seen as an "attack" on the concept of packaging
costs. I want to put this disclaimer forward, even though I thought I
had made my intentions clear in my first email -- I am not at all
antagonistic or in any way attacking the concept of packaging costs in
general or LISASoft in particular. I am merely curious. I had never
heard of packaging costs until this thread, so obviously, my
scholarship of open source, particularly its economics and motivation,
has been seriously lacking, and I need to correct it. And, what better
way to do that than to ask the person who is asking for packaging
costs in the first place.

1. How much are we talking about here?

2. Of course, any price is worth it if someone is willing to pay it,
but how to determine if the amount being asked in #1 above is
commensurate with the value of the product being considered, and is in
line with the value of similar products?

3. If no one comes up with the packaging costs, would you not put it
into open source, or would you still put it, but just "dump the code
into sourceforge" and let Darwin take care of it?

4. If you do put it in open source without any packaging costs being
paid to you, would you be losing out on any particular revenue other
than the time spent to put it into open source?


> Daniel
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/





-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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===
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Miles Fidelman
 wrote:
> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Cameron Shorter
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> As you are probably aware, just dumping code into sourceforge is not an
>>> effective way to start a successful Open Source project.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The above makes sense, but honestly, I had never heard of this until
>> now, and I have been tinkering with open source for almost a decade
>> now. Most open source projects seemed organic to me. Someone had an
>> itch, they scratched it, they put it out, and the project either
>> gathered traction, or it died. Seems like my scholarship of open
>> source has been lacking in this aspect hugely.
>>
>
> Actually, the history of successful open source projects (long-lived, widely
> adopted, well supported by a broad community) is very different than "having
> an itch to scratch."
>

Well said. I apologize for unintentionally making it seem that I was
conflating "itch to scratch" with lack of funds. Not so. Larry Wall
was gainfully employed when he developed Perl and released it into the
wilds. That is well documented. And, as you note below, variations on
this model abound. Our own Steve Lime, bless his heart, was and is
gainfully employed when he developed and continues to develop
MapServer. The nice folks at DM Solutions and Refractions built a
successful business around open source, releasing and benefitting from
their largesse.

That said, the main theme of my enquiry still remains -- I had never
heard of "packaging" costs until now, and am curious about quantifying
them.

Imagine that I am a potential sponsor. You have developed  for your own company. A few users are expressing interest in
that software. You write to the user list that you will put that
software into open source were your "packaging" costs met. The
following questions --

1. How much are we talking about here?

2. Of course, any price is worth it if someone is willing to pay it,
but how to determine if the amount being asked in #1 above is
commensurate with the value of the product being considered, and is in
line with the value of similar products?

3. If no one comes up with the packaging costs, would you not put it
into open source, or would you still put it, but just "dump the code
into sourceforge" and let Darwin take care of it?

4. If you do put it in open source without any packaging costs being
paid to you, would you be losing out on any particular revenue other
than the time spent to put it into open source?




> I've seen several major development paths for successful projects:
>
> 1. Funded research project that gets widely adopted.  Open sourced as a way
> to maintain availability and support.  Classic example: Apache (started as
> the NCSA web daemon).
>
> 2. Variant of the above: Project that starts as a research project ends up
> as a hybrid open-source/commercial enterprise.  Classic examples: Sendmail,
> PostgreSQL.
>
> 3. Internally funded project - by a university or corporate team - open
> sourced as a way to reduce support costs and/or widen adoption.  Generally
> retains some ties to originators.  Examples:  Sympa (mailing list manager
> funded by a consortium of French universities), Erlang, Zope.
>
> 4. The jury is still out on the various projects that have been developed
> for purely commercial reasons, with an open source ("community") version
> released as both a way to broaden the market and to reduce
> development/support costs by leveraging outside contributors (e.g.,
> OpenSolaris, Aptana Studio, ...).   The virtualization space seems to be a
> place where the uncertainties associated with this model are playing out
> (e.g., would you stake your business on Xen or VirtualBox?).
>
> Not sure how I'd characterize the various BSD unix varients, and Linux is a
> clear outlier - that may well be as close to an "itch to scratch" that
> succeeded as there is.
>
> What these all have in common is that:
>
> i. somebody and/or some organization had a serious internal reason for
> developing a piece of software, and in almost all cases had a source of
> financial support for the work
>
> ii. there are serious "business" reasons for open sourcing the code -
> broadening a user base, reducing development and support costs, etc. - and
> serious attention was/is paid to organization and management issues
>
>
> Miles Fidelman
>
> --
> Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
> Traverse Technologies 145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor
> Boston, MA  02111
> mfidel...@traversetechnologies.com
> 857-362-8314
> www.traversetechnologies.com
>
> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Cameron Shorter
 wrote:
> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> David,
>>> LISAsoft has a java implementation of OpenLS which we would like to Open
>>> Source if we can find a sponsor to cover our packaging costs.
>>>
>>
>> What kind of costs are "packaging costs," and what do they amount to
>> generally, and for OpenLS, more specifically?
>>
>
> P Kishor,
> As you are probably aware, just dumping code into sourceforge is not an
> effective way to start a successful Open Source project.
> There needs to be suitable  technical documentation, development processes
> documentation, web pages set up, issue trackers put in place, access writes
> granted to developers, and then have at least one champion sit on email
> lists supporting new users.
> That is what I consider "packaging costs".

The above makes sense, but honestly, I had never heard of this until
now, and I have been tinkering with open source for almost a decade
now. Most open source projects seemed organic to me. Someone had an
itch, they scratched it, they put it out, and the project either
gathered traction, or it died. Seems like my scholarship of open
source has been lacking in this aspect hugely.

I wonder if I can find out the "packaging costs" of other projects,
for example, what was the packaging cost for MapServer, or GeoServer,
or OpenLayers, or Perl/Python, etc.

Is this routine practice, or is this a consideration only when a
private company wants to put its code into open source? If the
packaging costs are a consideration in the latter case, does anyone
know if there were packaging costs involved when Autodesk converted
MapGuide to open source? If yes, how much were they? If Autodesk
didn't get paid for it, but instead, did a writedown of some sort on
their balance sheet, I wonder if I could be privy to that information?

Another question -- if you don't put the code into open source, are
you somehow recouping this cost? In other words, does putting the code
into open source have any opportunity costs? Asked another way, if you
did just "dump the code into sourceforge," besides the potentially
legitimate worry that the project might just die, would you incur any
other cost?


>
> If there is a serious desire, and potential sponsor for this functionality,
> then I can talk with the team and work out the costs of Open Sourcing. (I'll
> also need to put together a business case to our management for the value we
> gain from Open Sourcing over Closed Source for this product), but I'll take
> that on separately.
>
> If you have a potential sponsor for this activity, please let me know, and
> we can look into it further.
>

No, I don't have any sponsor. I am a rather indigent
academic/developer/activist with barely funds to keep myself afloat. I
am, however, still very curious about the magnitude of these
"packaging" costs. What are we talking about here? A few hundred, a
few thousand, a few tens of thousands, say, Euros (considering even
Kanye West doesn't want greenbacks anymore). You say above, "we can
look into it further." Does that imply that you haven't yet calculated
these packaging costs, but have a sense that they might be
substantial?

At the very least, because of this thread, I have now been made aware
of a potential aspect of open source about which I had absolutely no
idea until now.


> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Systems Architect
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
>
>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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===
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

[P Kishor]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Cameron Shorter
 wrote:
> David,
> LISAsoft has a java implementation of OpenLS which we would like to Open
> Source if we can find a sponsor to cover our packaging costs.

What kind of costs are "packaging costs," and what do they amount to
generally, and for OpenLS, more specifically?


>
> Stephen Woodbridge wrote:
>>
>> http://www.openrouteservice.org/
>>
>> This is the only one that I know about. But last time I looked I did not
>> see a link to download source code.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>> Sampson, David wrote:
>>>
>>> I am looking for an open source project that has implemented OpenLS
>>> specification from OGC.
>>>  I know their are some groups working on this
>>> * PAGC (on their road map)
>>> * OpenRouter (any code yet?)
>>> * OpenGeocoder (any code yet?)
>>>  I am looking to see if anyone has this OUT OF THE BOX and ready to
>>> download and install.
>>>  If there are any projects that are close I wouldn't mind hearing when
>>> the proposed release date is or what is required to make OpenLS happen with
>>> an open source solution.
>>>  My understanding is that OSGEO is working towards refrence
>>> implementations of OGC specs
>>> (http://www.opengeospatial.org/pressroom/pressreleases/944) perhaps OpenLS
>>> has a reference implementation?
>>>  Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Systems Architect
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
>
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>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] A brief survey of the kind of data you use in yourdaily work

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Craig Miller
 wrote:
> I filled out your survey.  I'm not working as a scientist and the survey
> didn't indicate that I should be.  I'm in commercial software dev.
>


Hmmm... that email was supposed to go out only to Bob, but went out to
the entire list, and this response should go to the entire list, but
seems to be headed only your way unless I add the osgeo address
explicitly to cc, which I will now as the following applies to most of
us (damn lists, with their non-standard reply-to management).

I am glad you responded, Craig. You must have noticed below that I
said "scientists" (double-quotes). I wanted everyone who works with
data to respond. I really don't care whether you are a commercial
developer or a skunk worker or a non-profit ninja hacker, or a DIY mom
or dad who grows organic grapes for a living. Lots of scientists work
in commercial software dev, and don't really wear white coats or have
stethoscopes dangling from their necks. I once called myself a
scientist, and my wife burst out laughing. That hurt a lot (I told her
that she wasn't an artist, but that didn't help me any).

I am interested in perceptions -- how folks view the data that they
work with. From personal experience, my assumption is that most of us
don't really mean the same thing when we think of "data." We conflate
data and databases, data and software, data and file formats, data and
information.

Anyway, more when my paper is done. But, thanks once again for
becoming a statistic in my survey.







> Craig
>
>
> --
> Craig Miller, MS
> Owner, Geospatial Software Architect
> Spatial Minds, LLC
> Geospatial Software Engineering
> (206) 962-7754
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:55:33 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] A brief survey of the kind of data you use in
>> yourdaily work
>> From: punk.k...@gmail.com
>> To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I am trying to understand how "scientists" view data. My survey should
>> have been really a bit longer, but I realize that response rate goes
>> down exponentially for every extra question added to a survey. Anyway,
>> I have had a bunch of interesting responses, so now I will analyze
>> them. I hope to put out a paper with the results.
>>
>> Puneet.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Bob Basques
>>  wrote:
>> > Geez,
>> >
>> > I want my money back . . .  Kidding.
>> >
>> > So, what sort of things do you expect to get out of this survey, the
>> > questions seem fairly general in nature, and without a real big response
>> > group, I don't see how much meaningful can be interpreted from it.
>> >
>> > bobb
>> >
>> >
>> >>>> P Kishor  wrote:
>> >
>> > http://www.punkish.org/Raw-Data-vs-Interpreted-Data/
>> >
>> > Really, only 5 questions, almost no thinking required. I will give you
>> > your money back if it takes you more than a minute to answer.
>> >
>> > So, no matter what your field of study, research or work, please take
>> > a few moments to answer the questions at
>> >
>> > http://www.punkish.org/Raw-Data-vs-Interpreted-Data/
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> >
>> >..



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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===
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] A brief survey of the kind of data you use in yourdaily work

[P Kishor]

Bob,

I am trying to understand how "scientists" view data. My survey should
have been really a bit longer, but I realize that response rate goes
down exponentially for every extra question added to a survey. Anyway,
I have had a bunch of interesting responses, so now I will analyze
them. I hope to put out a paper with the results.

Puneet.

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Bob Basques
 wrote:
> Geez,
>
> I want my money back . . .  Kidding.
>
> So, what sort of things do you expect to get out of this survey, the
> questions seem fairly general in nature, and without a real big response
> group, I don't see how much meaningful can be interpreted from it.
>
> bobb
>
>
>>>> P Kishor  wrote:
>
> http://www.punkish.org/Raw-Data-vs-Interpreted-Data/
>
> Really, only 5 questions, almost no thinking required. I will give you
> your money back if it takes you more than a minute to answer.
>
> So, no matter what your field of study, research or work, please take
> a few moments to answer the questions at
>
> http://www.punkish.org/Raw-Data-vs-Interpreted-Data/
>
> Many thanks,
>
>..
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[OSGeo-Discuss] A brief survey of the kind of data you use in your daily work

[P Kishor]

http://www.punkish.org/Raw-Data-vs-Interpreted-Data/

Really, only 5 questions, almost no thinking required. I will give you
your money back if it takes you more than a minute to answer.

So, no matter what your field of study, research or work, please take
a few moments to answer the questions at

http://www.punkish.org/Raw-Data-vs-Interpreted-Data/

Many thanks,



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo

[P Kishor]

I empathize with your sentiment, Ian, but disagree with your
arguments. More below.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Ian Turton  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Peter Batty  wrote:
>
>> I think that programs to encourage greater use of OSGeo products in
>> universities would be a great idea too - ESRI dominate in this area at the
>> moment, but this would be another way to get the word out to a broader
>> audience.
>
> Currently universities are locked in a vicious circle with GIS
> software in that the students demand we teach them on ESRI software
> because that's what employers want and employers use ESRI software as
> that is what the universities are teaching the students on.
>

The above is too much of a generalization. I have not come across any
students ever demanding that they be taught with ESRI software.
Students get taught with whatever software the professor/instructor
wants to teach with.


> The fact that ESRI are giving the software away for free (or nearly
> free) doesn't help.

That is a slippery slope argument. ESRI is, first, not giving the
software away for free. In my university, a fairly good-size
university, I might add, a site-wide ESRI license is $25K or something
like that (I don't know the exact number, but I am in the ballpark).
Different depts. chip in toward that site license, and then they get a
slew of licenses to use. Students can use the software in the labs
without paying anything for it, of course, or they can buy personal,
yearly or perpetual (as long as they are students) licenses. Yes, $25K
is nearly free in the context of ESRI or a large university,
neverthless, it *is* substantially more than really free software.

One issue is, and it pains me to say this, but ESRI software *is*
easier to install and get started with. I am not talking about just
installing and starting with uDig or QGIS, but the full-fledged ESRI
suite.

The other issue is, as noted above, students learn from whatever the
instructors choose to use. And, instructors choose to use what is
either available to them or what has captured their mindshare.
Instructors are not developers -- they are scientists and scholars.
They want to teach soil analysis or journalism or wild bear tagging.
They just want to use GIS as the tool, and the tool available to them
is the one installed in their labs. Sometimes they demand that a
certain tool be installed in their lab, sometimes, they use the tool
that is installed in their labs.



> I'd love to teach more (undergraduate) students
> with FOSS but first I have to find technician time to install the
> software on all the lab machines in the university (which is where
> ArcMap is provided) for just one course (and any way why can't I use
> Arc like everyone else will be the question). Of course we're supposed
> to be teaching techniques not software packages but you still spend
> most of your time sorting out the software issues.
>

Exactly. You have to ask the technician to install the software you
want. Once the instructors start asking for a certain software, it
will start getting installed. Once a certain software is installed,
subsequent instructors will have that as a choice.

Just yesterday I got an email from a student announcing his Master's
exit seminar thusly --

"I'll be giving an overview of my work on the winter foraging
strategies of Adelie Penguins in the Western Antarctic Peninsula
(chapter 1 of my thesis), I will focus the majority of my talk on my
work to construct a tool in ArcGIS that allows for the identification
of locations of intense foraging based upon movement paths of GPS or
satellite tagged animals.  For those of you who are addressing the
analysis of spatial data or animal movements while using ArcGIS, I
think this talk may be of specific interest to you."


Nice. You and I may care about ArcGIS v. GRASS. The student above
cares about Adelie Penguins.


> So *I* think that universities are a lost cause and we should focus on
> high schools - but in many states ESRI has got there before us and has
> signed deals with the state to provide arc in schools at no cost to
> the school. When I query teachers as to how the kids will do their
> homework they usually shrug and point out it's too hard for them to do
> on their own or that they can use the school library. May be
> elementary schools are the winnable battlefield?
>

I don't think universities are a lost cause. In fact, universities are
very much a winnable and winning cause. Once a substantial momentum is
reached, there will be a large enough population of users and
developers using, creating and contributing to open source as well as
proprietary software.


> Ian
> --
> Ian Turton
> These are definitely my views and not Penn States!
> ___
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>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Mem

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Next 5 years for OSGeo

[P Kishor]

2009/9/30 Cédric Moullet :
..
> - The OSGEO is very developer centric and probably need more input from
> management, end user, marketing etc...
..

noo!

Let our work, and not marketers and management, speak for us.



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2009 Board Election Results

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Paul Ramsey  wrote:
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Election_2009_Results
>
> Here are the final results from the voting for the open seats of the
> OSGeo Board of Directors.  There were five seats open and they have
> been filled by, in alphabetical order:
>
> * Chris Schmidt
> * Geoff Zeiss
> * Jeff McKenna
> * Markus Neteler (re-elected)
> * Ravi Kumar
>
> Thanks to everyone for running, it was a very large field of really
> excellent candidates, it's a shame the board isn't bigger.  The voting
> participation was middling at 73% and there were no tie scores to
> arbitrate.
>
> Your complete resulting Board is:
>
> * Ari Jolma
> * Arnulf Christl
> * Frank Warmerdam
> * Howard Butler
> * Markus Neteler
> * Chris Schmidt
> * Geoff Zeiss
> * Jeff McKenna
> * Ravi Kumar
>

My congratulations to the Board. May you do good work.


> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul Ramsey
> CRO 2009
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-- 
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Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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[OSGeo-Discuss] 3D visualization

[P Kishor]

Am looking for suggestions on how to take raster-style data (values
per grid) and create 3D surfaces out of it. This would be not just for
terrain but for anything... for example, a 3D surface of income, or
age or any other parameter.

Many thanks in advance.

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Geodata as Public Record in U.S.

[P Kishor]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Richard
Greenwood wrote:
> Maybe this URL will work.
> http://home.centurytel.net/wilsonlandsurvey/docs/GIS Data as Public
> Record.pdf
> The previous one had an extraneous space at the end.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Richard Greenwood
>  wrote:
>>
>> A friend of my prepared this analysis of geodata distribution and fees at
>> the county government level in the US:
>> http://home.centurytel.net/wilsonlandsurvey/docs/GIS Data as Public
>> Record.pdf
>> I think it may be of interest to some members of this list. Although the
>> US federal government sets a very high standard for freedom of information,
>> local governments often do not rise to the same level.

Very nice summary. Very useful. Thanks to you and your buddy.



>>
>> Regards,
>> --
>> Richard Greenwood
>> richard.greenw...@gmail.com
>> www.greenwoodmap.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Greenwood
> richard.greenw...@gmail.com
> www.greenwoodmap.com
>
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>
>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo friendly countries to live in

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Landon Blake wrote:
> Cameron wrote:
>
> " Canada looks preferable to the US. I wonder how much the Canadian
> GeoConnections program is responsible for Canada's strong OSGeo
> industry."
>
> I believe governments in Canada are much more supportive of open source
> software than governments in the United States. In my experience, the
> attitude towards open source software held by many organizations in the
> United States is still skeptical, if not hostile.
>

Well, I would make that assertion if I can back it up.

A quick check shows me that while I don't know what Whitehouse.gov
uses on the backend, it uses the open source jquery framework on the
front-end, and publishes all its content under a CC3.0 Attribution
license.

Similarly for data.gov, and its http://www.data.gov/catalog/geodata catalog.

Reminds me of the story --

Reporter sees Bill Gates' dog swimming. Next day the headlines says,
"Bill Gates' dog can't walk on water!"

My feeling is (_feeling_, not an assertion backed by evidence) that
the US govt. agencies stay out of supporting or not supporting any
particular kind of software or technology. They use what they think is
best, without creating a policy out of it, and generally let the
provider and the consumer of technologies duke it out. Of course, I
have no scientific evidence for this statement. But the proliferation
of Canadian Blackberries in the US Senate and House is a fairly decent
reflection of this.

Other govts. may choose to support a particular vendor or sector
because of various reasons -- one reason might be to make a concerted
effort to develop an alternative to US vendors and technologies.




> I believe this may be due in part to successful lobbying and marketing
> campaigns by big software companies in the US. We also seem to be more
> tolerant of software monopolies than other industrialized nations.
> Microsoft's trouble with the EU might be one example demonstrating the
> differences in attitude.
>
> Go Canada! (Home of the original JUMP desktop GIS, I might add.) :]
>
> Landon
> Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
> Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:43 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo friendly countries to live in
>
> Yves Jacolin has sliced FOSS4G  website hits to
>
> determine the number of FOSS4G attendees per million people, broken down
>
> by country. From this, you can get a feeling for the most OSGeo tolerant
>
> populations in the world (distorted around Australia due to the
> conference location).
>
> So what can we learn?
>
>    * Japan and Mongolia are the place be in Asia
>    * Chilli is the place to be in Latin America
>    * Canada looks preferable to the US. I wonder how much the Canadian
>      GeoConnections program is responsible for Canada's strong OSGeo
>      industry.
>    * There is a lot of interest across Europe, so FOSS4G 2010 should be
>      a crowded event.
>    * Africa seems to have learned all they need to know when FOSS4G
>      attended Johannesburg last year, and won't be heading to Australia
>      in force.
>
>
> You can view the maps here:
> http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com/2009/08/osgeo-friendly-countries-to-l
> ive-in.html
>
> and in French on Yves blog:
> http://georezo.net/blog/geolibre/2009/08/16/geolocalisation-des-visite-d
> u-site-foss4g-2009/
>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Systems Architect
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
>
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>
>




-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
---
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[OSGeo-Discuss] CALL FOR PAPERS: 2nd International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital Spaces on the Internet (OneSpace2009)

[P Kishor]

-
CALL FOR PAPERS: OneSpace2009
-

2nd International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital Spaces on
the Internet (OneSpace2009)
http://onespace.ace.ed.ac.uk/2009/

In conjunction with the Future Internet Symposium 2009 (FIS2009)
http://www.fis2009.org/

September 1, 2009, Berlin (Germany)

++ Deadline for submission: Aug 07, 2009 ++
++ Full papers and position papers invited ++



The Second International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital
Spaces on the Internet (OneSpace2009) will be held in conjunction with
the Future Internet Symposium 2009 (FIS2009) in Berlin on 1 September
2009.

We welcome technical papers and shorter position papers addressing the
identification and study of the complex relationship of the Internet
with space, place, geography and distance, whether physical or
virtual. Technologies as well as novel ideas, experiments, and
insights originating from multi-disciplinary viewpoints, including
internet, computer and GI sciences, humanities, digital media, and
social sciences are welcome.

from diverse research fields:

Important dates
---
* Submission deadline:  Aug 07, 2009
* Acceptance Notification:  Aug 17, 2009
* Camera-ready paper:   Aug 24, 2009
* Workshop date:Sep 01, 2009

Description


OneSpace proposes to contribute to the cross-domain exploration of how
Internet technologies and spatial notions co-exist and evolve.

One of the most important effects of the Internet and of the Web has
been to relax spatial and temporal constraints on human activities ---
the so called "space-time collapse" --- allowing fast global access to
information as well as to physical resources and services. Recently
this movement accelerated, due to the success of mobile devices such
as the iPhone allowing almost ubiquitous mobile access to the
Internet, to the generalisation of digital social interaction through
platforms such as Facebook and Twitter, to the virtual environments
provided on gaming platforms enabled by the Internet, instant
communication supported by popular VOIP providers such as Skype, and
an emerging web of things. Many now spend as much time involved in
digital spaces over the Internet than in "real" ones, and continuously
update the digital with elements of their physical life in
"lifestreaming" process. Moreover reality itself is augmented by
information collected from the Internet, through the increasing
availability of GPS devices that ease location based search, or
through "magic-lense" based applications that add information to
recognized physical elements, or reconstruct them in digital space
from various media collected on the Web.

While allowing users to experience a profound modification of their
interaction space, the Internet has familiarised us with new
topologies --- alongside the prominent hyperlinked topology exhibited
by the Web, Deleuze and Guattaris's "rhizome", which has become the
model of many new forms of organization --- leading to the creation of
new virtual spaces and communities. Indeed, P2P networks of devices
create semi-private sharing environments; (micro-) blogging and
lifestreaming induces new notions of spatiotemporal as well as social
proximity, while sensor and controller networks enable ubiquitous
access, sensing and interaction with the real world. Furthermore,
Virtual globes and GIS technologies continue to improve and to blur
the boundaries between spatial representation and perception by
providing mashup opportunities, photorealistic visual navigation, and
three-dimensional representations.

Many agree with what came to be known as Waldo Toblerís first law of
Geography: "Everything is related to everything else, but near things
are more related than distant things." The Internet, by establishing
new connections between geographically distant entities cannot but
provide us with a radically new image of Space and Time that this
workshop is aiming to explore in an interdisciplinary way. OneSpace
proposes to take the measure of the aforementioned developments and
their repercussion as well as to identify trends and directions for a
new future blended Internet.

Topics of interest
--
Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:

* Representation of physical/virtual spaces and topologies
* Spatiotemporal knowledge representation (ontologies and reasoning)
* The 3D and 4D Web
* Location-based services
* The Web of sensors
* New-generation Web mapping frameworks and applications
* Mobility and ubiquity
* Application of Linked Data for physical and digital spaces
* Digital Sense of Place and Presence
* Visibility and privacy in the Internet of people and things

Submissions
---
The following types of contributions are welcomed:

* Position papers, 4 pages max.
* Technical papers, 4-10 pages.

Workshop Organizers

[OSGeo-Discuss] WisconsinView data, now available under CC0

[P Kishor]

My friend Sam Batzli, Director, WisconsinView, is now making available
all of the program's satellite imagery (more than 6 Terabytes worth)
under the CC0 mark. A little "press release" announcing this follows.



Since 2004, WisconsinView (http://www.wisconsinview.org) has made
aerial photography and satellite imagery of Wisconsin available to the
public for free over the web. As part of the AmericaView consortium,
WisconsinView supports access and use of these imagery collections
through education, workforce development, and research. Starting June
30, 2009, WisconsinView is making available all of its more than 6
Terabytes of imagery data under the new CC0 Protocol provided by
Creative Commons. The CC0 (pronounced CC-Zero) Protocol waives any
rights in a dataset, ensuring that all of the dataset is available to
anyone without encumbrance of any kind. More information on CC0 is
available at http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC0, and the reasoning
behind the protocol is described at
http://sciencecommons.org/projects/publishing/open-access-data-protocol/.
Further questions about WisconsinView may be directed to Dr. Sam
Batzli, Director, WisconsinView at sabat...@wisc.edu or Puneet Kishor,
Science Commons Fellow (Geospatial Data) at
punk...@creativecommons.org.
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[OSGeo-Discuss] OGC geospatial rights mgt. summit

[P Kishor]

I will be attending the OGC Geospatial Rights Mgt. Summit to be held
at MIT on June 22. I will be giving a 10 min. lightning talk on SC's
thoughts on spatial data, and also be participating in the panel
discussions. Please do send me your input on questions/concerns that
you would like to see discussed/highlighted there that I could
possibly bring up

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/
Science Commons Fellow, Geospatial Data http://sciencecommons.org
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

[P Kishor]

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:38 AM, John Callahan  wrote:
> I've dealt with this question before but not quite with those specifics.
>  Actually, I've had these issues from a different angle: people who already
> have the ESRI suite because their larger company or government agency
> purchased an ESRI enterprise license yet they were looking at open source as
> a serious option.
>
> Hopefully some of this can help...
>
>
> My first thought is that a current ESRI solution would be based on ArcGIS
> Server rather than ArcIMS.  ArcIMS is basically gone (the 2008 Dev Summit
> had ZERO tech sessions on ArcIMS but did have a few migration to ArcGIS
> server topics.  On the current ESRI support site for ArcIMS life cycle, they
> do NOT mention a 9.4 release (current is 9.3.1) although they do for ArcGIS
> Desktop and ArcGIS Server.  The ArcIMS Data Delivery Extension is not being
> sold any more.  ArcIMS could do basic clip-n-ship using the Extract Server
> but that is only available using the old AXL image services and NOT the
> ArcMap services.    I've heard trusted rumors (from some ESRI staff at tech
> shows and conferences) that ArcGIS Server is where ESRI has been putting all
> their energy for the past few years.
> ArcGIS Server (AGS) costs quite a bit, up to 4 cores it's about $32K - $40K
> per server for the advanced, enterprise level.    This Advanced version
> includes the 3D, Spatial, Network and Geostatistical extenions.  It does not
> include the Data Interoperability extension (based on FME Safe and typically
> used for data ETL tasks) or the Image Server extension (used for real-time
> display of rasters in various bands and combinations, like NDVI)
> Extensions are about 4K - 8K each.
>
> The "Enterprise" licenses mean it includes more features plus ArcSDE for
> major RDBMS like Oracle SQL Server.  The "Workgroup" version includes a
> limited ArcSDE for Workgroups.  Enterprise ArcSDE (and therefore Enterprise
> ArcGIS Server) is almost *required* for anything data delivery system
> greater than a few GB and especially if web based.
>
>
> For more pricing, here are a few I found...
>
> https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/  (search for "arcgis server")
> http://www.eyaktek.com/public/ESRI%20Catalog%2006-20-08.xls
> http://www.esri.com/partners/hardware/ibm-advanced-enterprise.pdf
>
>
> For data processing and delivery, like LIDAR processing and anything that
> would result from a model, is typically done either 1) via Model Builder,
> python scripts in the ArcMap MXD document (typically unstable), or 2) via
> ArcObjects coding through the NET or Java APIs (the Interface OO programming
> is difficult to learn).  Recently, quite a lot is done through ArcGIS
> Desktop (ArcMap.)  ArcCatalog is used to fully manage AGS.  There is a web
> application for managing AGS but it can't do everything that ArcCatalog can
> do, critical things like map caching.  (at least that was the case in 9.2.)
>   So, yes, you'll need quite a few ArcGIS Desktops.
> You'll need ArcEditor (~$5K) versions for writing to ArcSDE.  You'll need
> ArcInfo level (~$14K) for creating the models to be processed in AGS.   This
> does not include desktop extensions which run about $2.5K each.  Plus, many
> advanced feature of AGS (that you see in demos or brochures) are only
> accessible via thick AGS clients like ArcGIS DEsktop or ArcGIS Explorer.
>  Remember the initial primary purpose for AGS was was a desktop GIS server,
> like a replacement for the old ArcInfo 7x geoprocessing server.  It was to
> push centralized GIS processing, editing, mobile checkin/checkout,
> geocoding, etc...   Traditional web applications (replacement for ArcIMS)
> came later.
>


This is a most excellent summary John. Consider adding this to a wiki
page that can be regularly updated.


>
> - John
>
> **
> John Callahan
> Geospatial Application Developer
> Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware
> 227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501
> Tel: (302) 831-3584  Email: john.calla...@udel.edu
> http://www.dgs.udel.edu
> **
>
>
> Bill Thoen wrote:
>>
>> I need to make a case for developing a map and data server using Open
>>  Source software such as MapServer, Open Layers, PostgereSQL/PostGIS to
>>  counter a proposal to go with ESRI's solutions. The client who this  would
>> be directed to manages a lot of land parcels on which some  development is
>> planned. As part of the support for this, the object is  to build an
>> Internet-accessible server that maintains about 800Gb of  spatial and
>> tabular data, that can provide interactive maps of the  properties, data
>> downloads of selected areas and layers in shapefile,  AutoCAD and other
>> formats. It also needs to generate 3D surfaces from  dense LiDAR data that's
>> available. It also needs a database cataloging  system that can be searched
>> for data held in the system. Finally, it  needs to provide different acce

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] GIS_Libraries

[P Kishor]

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Christopher Schmidt
 wrote:
> On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 11:55:47AM -0500, P Kishor wrote:
..
>>
>> Thanks Dan (and Christopher and others), I see the distinction now
>> between GPL and LGPL. However, I am reading the actual GPL text and
>> its extensive FAQ, instead of Wikipedia's interpretation of it, to try
>> and sift through all the variations and exceptions to better
>> understand this now. Hopefully I will come out better informed from
>> this process. In the meantime, the distinction that you point out
>> between GPL and LGPL makes sense.
>
> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LinkingWithGPL
>
> "The combination itself is then available under those GPL versions."
>
..

This actually gets even more clear as mud... from the para above the
link provided above, we have the following --


Can I release a non-free program that's designed to load a GPL-covered plug-in?

It depends on how the program invokes its plug-ins. For instance, if
the program uses only simple fork and exec to invoke and communicate
with plug-ins, then the plug-ins are separate programs, so the license
of the plug-in makes no requirements about the main program.

If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function
calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a
single program, which must be treated as an extension of both the main
program and the plug-ins. In order to use the GPL-covered plug-ins,
the main program must be released under the GPL or a GPL-compatible
free software license, and that the terms of the GPL must be followed
when the main program is distributed for use with these plug-ins.

If the program dynamically links plug-ins, but the communication
between them is limited to invoking the ‘main’ function of the plug-in
with some options and waiting for it to return, that is a borderline
case.

Using shared memory to communicate with complex data structures is
pretty much equivalent to dynamic linking.


So, the above question is possibly closer in spirit to the OP that
started this thread. Can I create a commercial (and ostensibly closed
source, although that closed-source-ness of the program was not asked
for by the OP) program with "LGPL GIS SDK or library". The answer
would be yes. But, the answer would be yes with GPL as well, but then
we would get into whether or not the result would be open or closed
source, and what the license of the result would be. Yes, I muddied
the issue a bit by using the example of ShapeLib, but, perhaps that is
a good thing, because it does illustrate the need for thinking it
through carefully... what are we doing with the GPL program? Are we
linking? Are we doing a "simple fork and exec"? Do we have some other
borderline case?

Once again, the clearest advice would be -- if you think you have the
possibility of creating a business that is based on software worth
protecting its source, and yet want to use other free software, pony
up some cash up-front and get a real lawyer to advice you. Don't
listen to folks on mailing lists or read wikipedia articles... invest
in a lawyer. Otherwise, take the easy way out and stay free.

I actually quite like GPL's philosophy -- it doesn't restrict at all
what I do with GPLed software. It only stops me from restricting
others.

Puneet.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] GIS_Libraries

[P Kishor]

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Daniel Ames  wrote:
> IANAL either, but I do read wikipedia. So by way of clarification...
> Everything I've read makes a clear distinction between GPL and LGPL such
> that GPL code can not be embedded in or linked to a closed source
> application. Period. Whereas L-GPL licensed code can be linked to a closed
> source application.
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Lesser_General_Public_License
> So if the individual wants to link to GPL licensed code/libraries and is
> willing to make his code GPL then fine. He can still run a commercial
> business based on this code, as many people do.
> But if he wants to keep his code under some closed-source license then he
> can not link to or embed any GPL licensed code or library.

Thanks Dan (and Christopher and others), I see the distinction now
between GPL and LGPL. However, I am reading the actual GPL text and
its extensive FAQ, instead of Wikipedia's interpretation of it, to try
and sift through all the variations and exceptions to better
understand this now. Hopefully I will come out better informed from
this process. In the meantime, the distinction that you point out
between GPL and LGPL makes sense.

All that said, please note that GPL does not prevent anyone from
commercializing any technology, and that was the thrust of the
original question, if I recall correctly, although, the OP
specifically asked for only LGPL technology, so GPL was out anyway. In
that sense, LGPL is compatible with GPL, but GPL is not compatible
with LGPL.

In any case, all the more reason to consult an actual lawyer before
setting out to do a commercial venture, or, be prepared to make money
while openly sharing your code. Nothing to hide is always the better
policy, or, at least the more headache-free policy.





> - Dan
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:24 AM, P Kishor  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Daniel Ames  wrote:
>> > Nenad,
>> > The OSGeo projects use a variety of licenses. You'll see LGPL, MPL, GPL,
>> > MIT, and others. If you are developing commercial tools, you'll need to
>> > avoid GPL (someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
>>
>> 
>> Disclaimer: IANAL. Get legal advice from your lawyer before embarking
>> on your million dollar enterprise.
>> 
>>
>> I'll correct you, because, as stated above, you are misrepresenting at
>> best, and wrong at worst. ;-)
>>
>> GPL does not prevent you from making money. GPL only requires that if
>> you modify the code that is under GPL, then you must redistribute the
>> modified code under GPL. Granted this may not be easy to figure out in
>> real world scenarios, but consider the following --
>>
>> Let's say ShapeLib is published under GPL (I don't know whether or not
>> it is; this is only for illustration purpose). Let's say, MapServer
>> utilizes ShapeLib, but doesn't modify ShapeLib, but uses ShapeLib as
>> is. Let's say, MapServer's creator decides to make millions off of
>> MapServer, Inc. He is under no obligation to release the source code
>> of MapServer, but he is obligated to release the source code of
>> ShapeLib, which is no big deal, because the source code of ShapeLib is
>> already available to anyone.
>>
>> On the other hand, let's say, ShapeLib is modified to perform better,
>> or differently, for MapServer. Now, there is an obligation to release
>> the source code to the modified version of ShapeLib no matter what the
>> value of that value-added might be. That is what the GPL obligates.
>> MapServer itself is still governed by whatever license that its
>> creator decides to apply.
>>
>>
>> > Also take into consideration development platform/language.
>> > My group (MapWindow project) has a number of people using our GIS SDK
>> > for
>> > commercial applications in the .NET platform. MapWindow is licensed
>> > under
>> > MPL 1.1 which supports commercial usage.
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Nenad Milasinovic
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> I am interested is there any reliable open source, LGPL licensed GIS
>> >> SDK
>> >> or library suited for building commercial, platform independent GIS
>> >> application on top of it.
>> >> I am also interested for commercial solutions but only as SDK or
>> >> library.
>> >> I will appreciate any help.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Nenad Milasinovic
>> >> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] GIS_Libraries

[P Kishor]

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Daniel Ames  wrote:
> Nenad,
> The OSGeo projects use a variety of licenses. You'll see LGPL, MPL, GPL,
> MIT, and others. If you are developing commercial tools, you'll need to
> avoid GPL (someone correct me if I'm wrong.)


Disclaimer: IANAL. Get legal advice from your lawyer before embarking
on your million dollar enterprise.


I'll correct you, because, as stated above, you are misrepresenting at
best, and wrong at worst. ;-)

GPL does not prevent you from making money. GPL only requires that if
you modify the code that is under GPL, then you must redistribute the
modified code under GPL. Granted this may not be easy to figure out in
real world scenarios, but consider the following --

Let's say ShapeLib is published under GPL (I don't know whether or not
it is; this is only for illustration purpose). Let's say, MapServer
utilizes ShapeLib, but doesn't modify ShapeLib, but uses ShapeLib as
is. Let's say, MapServer's creator decides to make millions off of
MapServer, Inc. He is under no obligation to release the source code
of MapServer, but he is obligated to release the source code of
ShapeLib, which is no big deal, because the source code of ShapeLib is
already available to anyone.

On the other hand, let's say, ShapeLib is modified to perform better,
or differently, for MapServer. Now, there is an obligation to release
the source code to the modified version of ShapeLib no matter what the
value of that value-added might be. That is what the GPL obligates.
MapServer itself is still governed by whatever license that its
creator decides to apply.


> Also take into consideration development platform/language.
> My group (MapWindow project) has a number of people using our GIS SDK for
> commercial applications in the .NET platform. MapWindow is licensed under
> MPL 1.1 which supports commercial usage.
> Dan
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Nenad Milasinovic
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am interested is there any reliable open source, LGPL licensed GIS SDK
>> or library suited for building commercial, platform independent GIS
>> application on top of it.
>> I am also interested for commercial solutions but only as SDK or library.
>> I will appreciate any help.
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> --
>> Nenad Milasinovic
>> Software Development and Testing
>>
>> ---
>>
>> "ZESIUM mobile" d.o.o.
>> Valentina Vodnika 8/9
>> 21000 Novi Sad
>> Serbia
>> Tel: +381 (0)21 472 15 48
>> Fax: +381 (0)21 472 15 49
>> Mob: +381 (0)61 231 41 20
>> E-mail: nenad.milasino...@zesium.com
>>
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>
>
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>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/
Science Commons Fellow, Geospatial Data http://sciencecommons.org
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
---
collaborate, communicate, compete
===
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[OSGeo-Discuss] Science Commons Fellow on geospatial data

[P Kishor]

Dear OSGeo,

I am very proud and honored to announce my appointment as a Science
Commons Fellow focusing on geospatial data.

http://creativecommons.org/about/people/#113

During the coming year I intend to do for free and open access to
geospatial data what Science Commons has been doing for other
scientific data. I fully intend to draw upon you, my community, in
this task.

Regards,

Puneet.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/
Science Commons Fellow on Geospatial Data http://sciencecommons.org
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/

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[OSGeo-Discuss] a lay person's guide to licensing geographic data

[P Kishor]

http://www.punkish.org/Licensing-Geographic-Data

Needless to say, this is, for now, US-centric, as that is where I
live, and that is what I (don't) understand. Please send me feedback
and comments so I can improve it, make it clearer, etc. Hopefully, I
will be able to follow this up with some insight into other parts of
the world.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo Windows Installer resources

[P Kishor]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Jason Birch  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've recently been helping to create a WiX based (MSI) installer for MapGuide 
> Open Source.  As part of this I've generated the following OSGeo-generic 
> resources:
>
>  - Large BMP for "welcome" page for installer; lots of room to add 
> project-specific logo
>  - Small BMP for intermediate pages of installer
>  - Multi-resolution/bit depth ICO file for setup exe, msi, shortcuts, etc
>
> If you're interested in using these for your OSGeo project, feel free.  I've 
> made them available under CC0 (Public Domain):


Makes me feel very happy to see someone using CC0 as I had something
to do with it. Many thanks.


>
> http://www.jasonbirch.com/files/OSGeo_Windows_Installer_Resources.7z
>
> Because they incorporate the OSGeo logo, usage should follow the OSGeo logo 
> and trademark guidelines.
>
> Jason



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: [Majas-dev] [Majas-users] Flex in geomajas

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Leonardo Mateo  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Dirk Frigne  wrote:
>> Sorry for the cross posting, but I found an interesting mail about
>> performance and webmapping in the majas developers list.
>>
>> Today, Geomajas is written in Java for the server part, and uses Javascript
>> in the frontend.
>> Although the performance is good enough to support a proper amount of
>> editable objects, we always are looking to mechanisms to improve the speed
>> and usability of the front end.
>>
>> Pieter has done some tests with the Flex technology and they are very
>> promising(details in his mail attached).
>> Should it be a problem for distribution that the technology is shipped in
>> the form of an installable plug-in instead of native browser technology such
>> as VML or SVG, or isn't that an issue?
>>
>> And who has experience with this technology?
>>
>> I would appreciate your feedback ...
>>
>>
> Ok, here's my grain of sand. I don't know what geomajas is, so I don't
> know how much Flex would impact on this.
> I've been working with Flex from the past two years or so, now a days
> a little less intensive, but still working. I've worked with two or
> three map API's for Flex and I have to say that totally worth it.
> About the speed, I haven't seen any benchmark bu ActionScript3 should
> be way faster than JavaScript and should work fine with large amount
> of data, wether you use raw XML or some other technology such as AMF*.
> About the downside Pieter mention there, I think in these days, the
> Flash plugin is something you should have on a browser, it is not a
> strange requirement anymore. However, you shouldn't confuse Flash with
> Flex, even when a Flex application is a Flash movie, their are used
> for completly different things and can work togheter since you can,
> from Flex, use resources from an swf made in Flash.
>
> Anyway, my opinion is: "go for it if your UI is complex enough", Flex
> allows you to build a really complex, advanced UI with advanced
> widgets that looks, performs and behaves really good. Programming AS
> is way much easier than JavaScript (I come from a JS background too)
> not to mention modularization possibilites with Flex Modules and
> Libraries also, you should reduce the browser compatibility issues in
> a 95% at least.
>
>


I too don't know what geomajas is, and Flex may or may not be the best
solutinon for it, but consider that Flex/Flash are not supported on
iPhone, and probably never will be. Actually, I don't know much about
Flash/Flex as well, but I am assuming that even though they are
different products, they produce the same SWF end result, and require
a Flash player/plugin on the client, and Flash is a huge CPU hog. Ever
since I installed ClickToFlash
(http://github.com/rentzsch/clicktoflash/) on my Macbook, I am a happy
camper.

So, if you don't mind geomajas to not be accessible to the largest
mobile web platform, Flex/Flash may well be a good solution.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/
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[OSGeo-Discuss] snafu while compiling geos 3.0.3 on a Mac/Intel/10.5.6

[P Kishor]

g++  -o .libs/_geos.so -bundle  .libs/_geos_la-geos_wrap.o
../../capi/.libs/libgeos_c.dylib
/Users/punkish/Projects/geos-3.0.3/source/.libs/libgeos.dylib
-L/usr/local/lib/python2.6/config/ -lpython2.6
Undefined symbols:
  "_environ", referenced from:
  _environ$non_lazy_ptr in libpython2.6.a(posixmodule.o)
ld: symbol(s) not found
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[4]: *** [_geos.la] Error 1
make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all] Error 2
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
[06:38 PM] ~/Projects/geos-3.0.3$

uh oh! What to do now?


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[OSGeo-Discuss] Fwd: CC0 Private Announcement

[P Kishor]

go adopt yerself a public domain waiver... be an early geog. data and
tools adopter now, willya.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Thinh Nguyen 
Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Subject: CC0  Private Announcement
..


Dear Friends of Science Commons:

I'm delighted to let you know that CC0
(http://creativecommons.org/about/cc0) has been completed and is ready for
implementation. We are making this private announcement at this time only to
our collaborators and potential early adopters, to give them time to
evaluate the tool and to implement it.

As you know, the concept for CC0 arose from our meeting in October 2007 at
the Sorbonne in Paris. As a participant in that conference, your ideas and
suggestions played a key and vital role in shaping our thinking about how to
share data and databases, which ultimately lead to the development of CC0. I
hope that you can be proud of the ultimate result.

CC0 is only the first installment of a two-part plan. With CC0, we intend to
provide a simple, easy-to-use tool that data providers can use to waive or
"quitclaim" any rights that they may have in data, including copyright and
database rights. As a follow-up to CC0, we are working on an assertion tool
that can be used to mark data that's already in the public domain, but this
is a more complicated task, so we are releasing CC0--the waiver
component--first.

I hope that you will take some time to look at CC0 by following the link
above. We invite your feedback, and if you know of anyone who might be
interested in CC0 or who might want to be an early adopter, please feel free
to let them know that CC0 is available or put them in touch with us.

Once again, thank you for your contribution to the success of this effort.
We look forward to your continued involvement and participation as we roll
out this project.

Best Regards,

Thinh Nguyen
Counsel, Science Commons









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[OSGeo-Discuss] public domain ontology

[P Kishor]

a quick update from the "Ontology for the National Map" workshop in
DC. Mostly academia and several private industries here, but as far as
I can tell, thus far, I am the only avowed representative of OSGeo,
and will be making my usual pitch for user involvement and
Science-Commons-ish public domain and open access.

Have drum, will beat.

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] copyright question

[P Kishor]

On 12/10/08, Chris Puttick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  ----- "P Kishor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)
>  > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > So if the project had been formed, but does not contain any source
>  > code as
>  > > yet it's possible? Or am I misinterpreting your words?
>  >
>  > Well, it is entirely possible that I am misinterpreting your words. I
>  > am not sure what is a "project" as different from the code? How can
>  > there be a project if there is no code? Besides, a project is not
>  > copyrighted... it is the code that is copyrighted, and that is done
>  > by
>  > considering software source code as a literary work actually.
>  >
>  > If "projects" without code could be copyrighted then every joe the
>  > plumber would dream up of all kinds of fanciful projects that only
>  > exist in ones mind, and copyright them. Then everyone else would be
>  > shut out.
>  >
>  > A clever lawyer could also argue that the "project" is an idea, while
>  > the code is the expression of that idea. Since ideas can't be
>  > copyrighted, there you go. Consider this example -- I have this
>  > wonderful idea that given an address, the computer should be able to
>  > figure out the lat/lon. I call this "project" by the name "geocoding"
>  > and copyright it even though I haven't written a lick of code. Now
>  > everyone else is shut out from writing computer programs to do
>  > geocoding. That wouldn't be nice, would it?
>  >
>
> I believe in the US that is known as a "patent" ;)
>


That is actually a very good point, but a bit tangential to this
entire discussion. My example was contrived. A better example would be
-- "Let's say I have an idea about a book in which someone kills
someone else, then a wise guy figures out whodunnit. I copyright that
idea. Now anyone wanting to write a mystery novel is out of luck.
There goes Agatha Christie's career."

On the other hand, software is a murky world. Treated as a literary
work, it is protected by copyright. A method for doing something, on
the other hand, treated as a "device," is patentable.

The difference to appreciate is how patents v. copyrights work (all
discussion confined to the US where I live and the only place whose
laws I have only begun to understand). Copyrights are like a natural
right. You don't need anyone's permission to obtain one. You get a
copyright at the instant of the creation of your work. But, you have
to create your work first -- "fixed in a tangible medium."

Patents, on the other hand, are not a natural right. They are more
like property right. You acquire a patent when someone (the patent
authority in your country, USPTO in the US) deems that you should be
given a patent. Patents are given in inventions. There was a time when
the invention actually had to be deposited in the patent office before
it could be considered for a patent. Interestingly, now the invention
doesn't have to deposited, but just a blueprint of the invention has
to be submitted. In other words, the word "invention" doesn't mean
what, at least I, think it means -- a physical device. It can indeed
just be an idea in my head, but it has to be a "workable" idea. One
could argue that how could something "work" if it is just in my head.
Well, if I could describe how something could work, and convince the
patent examiner of it having certain qualities necessary to make it
patent-worthy (novel, non-obvious, patentable-subject-matter, yadda
yadda) *and* "reduce it to practice," that is, provide clear
instructions so that a PHOSITA (person having ordinary skill in the
arts) can reproduce them, I would get a patent.

So, consider --

copyright - acquire naturally and instantly upon creating an expressive work
patent - given through an administrative process lasting a few years

copyright - need to create a work, but don't need to tell anyone of it
patent - don't need to create a physical work, but do need to tell,
first the patent office, and then, upon receiving the patent, tell the
world

The discussion in this thread was more about assignment of rights in
things created either now or in the future via contracts. So, it is
more a domain of contract law than IP law.


-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] copyright question

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Frank Warmerdam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> Any right is only as good as its defense in the court. Just because
>> reputable IP lawyers may draft copyright assignments in works that
>> don't yet exist doesn't mean that actual copyrights in those works
>> exist.
>
> Puneet,
>
> I don't claim that the copyright exists before the thing being
> copyrighted exists.  Only that it is possible to write a contract
> that grants that copyright in advance of it actually existing.
> The actual assignment for each chunk presumably takes place as
> it is created and the copyright comes into existance.
>
> I am doubtful that this tangent is really important to the question of
> whether these folks can assign the copyright of their work-to-come to
> OSGeo.
>

Yes, you are correct in stating that a contract can be written
granting rights in one's future work to someone else. That is how
"work-for-hire" works, for example.

You and I were indeed talking slightly past each other. I interpreted
Bart's question at face value -- can "OsGeo to take copyright for a
project which yet has to form." The answer is "no." There are no
rights yet, so nothing can be taken. On the other hand, can a creator
of a work give up one's rights in future work to OSGeo? Sure, based on
a contract, one can.

Regards,

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] copyright question

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Frank Warmerdam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> today I was in a meeting about GeoExt, and the following question came
>>> up:
>>>
>>> "Is it possible for OsGeo to take copyright for a project which yet has
>>> to
>>> form and has not passed incubation as such?"
>>
>> Just looking at the above question, the answer would be "no" in the
>> US. In the US, per  Title 17, Section 102, "original works of
>> authorship" have to be "fixed in any tangible medium of expression"
>> before they can acquire copyright protection. Since the said project
>> hasn't yet been formed, it can't be protected.
>
> Puneet,
>
> It appears to be a common practice to write copyright assignments and
> contributor agreements in such a way that they apply to new contributions
> as they are created.  Of course for this to work well it is necessary to
> be reasonably clear about what is being contributed.  So regardless of
> the text of title 17, section 102, reputable "intellectual property"
> lawyers have not shown any hesitation to draft agreements related to
> future creations.
>

Any right is only as good as its defense in the court. Just because
reputable IP lawyers may draft copyright assignments in works that
don't yet exist doesn't mean that actual copyrights in those works
exist.

It is also entirely possible that you and I are talking about
different things -- I am referring to the existence of rights in
something... those rights cannot exist until that thing exists, and it
has to, per US laws, be "fixed in tangible medium." There is
absolutely no doubt or wiggle room in that condition. On the other
hand, you seem to be referring to "assignment of copyrights" by which
you might mean "transfer" of rights (I could be wrong in interpreting
your statement there, but based on Bart's original question, that is
what I am leaning toward believing). Of course, for transfer of rights
to occur, the rights have to exist in the first place, and for rights
to exist in a work, the work has to exist. Back to square one.

1. First comes the idea (not copyrightable).

2. Then comes the instantiation of that idea fixed in a tangible
medium (as long as it is of sufficient creativity, it instantly, upon
creation, acquires copyright).

3. Then comes, optionally, and well-advised, registration of that
copyright with US LOC.

4. Then comes, hopefully not, defense of that copyright because
someone violated it.


Keep in mind, the ultimate yardstick is the "text of the law" as
interpreted by a judge. In this case, the text seems to be very clear.
The text of USC Title 17 § 102 is very important.

All that said, IANAL. All this is free advise based on my recent
courses at the Wisconsin Law School, so take it fwiw. For better
advise (or, at least, more mental comfort), it might be worthwhile
getting paid-for advice.

But I tell you, a semester of courses can teach a lot.

-- 
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] copyright question

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So if the project had been formed, but does not contain any source code as
> yet it's possible? Or am I misinterpreting your words?

Well, it is entirely possible that I am misinterpreting your words. I
am not sure what is a "project" as different from the code? How can
there be a project if there is no code? Besides, a project is not
copyrighted... it is the code that is copyrighted, and that is done by
considering software source code as a literary work actually.

If "projects" without code could be copyrighted then every joe the
plumber would dream up of all kinds of fanciful projects that only
exist in ones mind, and copyright them. Then everyone else would be
shut out.

A clever lawyer could also argue that the "project" is an idea, while
the code is the expression of that idea. Since ideas can't be
copyrighted, there you go. Consider this example -- I have this
wonderful idea that given an address, the computer should be able to
figure out the lat/lon. I call this "project" by the name "geocoding"
and copyright it even though I haven't written a lick of code. Now
everyone else is shut out from writing computer programs to do
geocoding. That wouldn't be nice, would it?

>
> Best regards,
> Bart
>
> P Kishor wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> today I was in a meeting about GeoExt, and the following question came
>>> up:
>>>
>>> "Is it possible for OsGeo to take copyright for a project which yet has
>>> to
>>> form and has not passed incubation as such?"
>>>
>>
>> Just looking at the above question, the answer would be "no" in the
>> US. In the US, per  Title 17, Section 102, "original works of
>> authorship" have to be "fixed in any tangible medium of expression"
>> before they can acquire copyright protection. Since the said project
>> hasn't yet been formed, it can't be protected.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A commercial company has expressed issues contributing if the copyright
>>> is
>>> not owned by a trustworthy independent organization such as OsGeo.
>>>
>>> Is anybody able to answer this? TIA.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Bart
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bart van den Eijnden
>>> OSGIS, Open Source GIS
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> http://www.osgis.nl
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bart van den Eijnden
> OSGIS, Open Source GIS
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.osgis.nl
>
>



-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] copyright question

[P Kishor]

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> today I was in a meeting about GeoExt, and the following question came up:
>
> "Is it possible for OsGeo to take copyright for a project which yet has to
> form and has not passed incubation as such?"

Just looking at the above question, the answer would be "no" in the
US. In the US, per  Title 17, Section 102, "original works of
authorship" have to be "fixed in any tangible medium of expression"
before they can acquire copyright protection. Since the said project
hasn't yet been formed, it can't be protected.


>
> A commercial company has expressed issues contributing if the copyright is
> not owned by a trustworthy independent organization such as OsGeo.
>
> Is anybody able to answer this? TIA.
>
> Best regards,
> Bart
>
> --
> Bart van den Eijnden
> OSGIS, Open Source GIS
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.osgis.nl
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Raster data on a DBMS

[P Kishor]

On 11/4/08, Chris Puttick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is not necessary to store the image file itself in the database to get 
> concurrency control, data protection, integrity and management features. 
> There are a number of good document management systems (Alfresco, 
> KnowledgeTree) that offer all the above for files, and the Zimbra 
> collaboration system makes use of database for emails much the same reason. 
> None of these actually store the files in database; the database is used to 
> provide all the controls, and the access to the files is only via an 
> interface that references the database and the additional functionality it 
> provides.
>

That doesn't make much sense to *me*. It is one thing to not want to
deploy an rdbms to store images as it allegedly creates unnecessary
complexity. It makes no sense to replace that complexity with some
other complexity, that of a document management system in this case.
Given that I have personally never heard of Alfresco or Knowledge Tree
or other such document management systems, but I *have* heard of
PostGres/MySQL/SQLite, I would much rather deal with known complexity
than with unknown complexity.


>  OTOH Microsoft put all their Exchange emails into the database and anyone 
> who has ever managed an Exchange installation of any size
>  can tell you just how many problems that can cause you...

Yeah, but one allegedly bad or problematic approach doesn't
necessarily speak for all other such approaches. Besides, while I may
not like MS, for whatever reason, Exchange seems to be doing quite
well in the marketplace. In any case, that is not the argument -- the
argument is simply this -- does keeping images in a db make sense to
you, the implementer? That is the only thing that matters. The users
won't give a rip... all they care is that they can get to the images
in their own known and intuitive ways. Your project manager will not
give a rip as long as the project is under budget and on time (of
course, you could be the project manager as well, as is the case in
many FOSS projects). The only one who should give a rip is you, the
developer, the implementer of the solution.

I do believe that there may be cases where a raster-in-db makes sense.
I personally don't want to recreate the mechanism for storing images
on the filesystem... one can't just dump thousands of images in a
folder. They have to be named uniquely, stored so too many don't fill
a single folder, and so on... the db can do all these tasks for the
developer happily.

Nevertheless, the original premise still stands -- the world is big
enough for both approaches, and the best marketing for any approach is
the implementation of the approach. Hang it on the wall for the world
to see, and if they don't like it, they will ask you to take it down.



>
>  Chris
>
>
>  - "Gilberto Camara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Dear OSGEO
>  >
>  > Jim Gray´s paper and much more on
>  > this issue is on his site at MS Research.
>  >
>  > Storing images on a database gives much
>  > more benefits that simple retrieval of
>  > metadata. Databases offer concurrency control,
>  > data protection, integrity and management features
>  > that simple file systems are lacking.
>  >
>  > If you have hundreds of images scattered around
>  > as files, you lack data management. Your metadata
>  > may point to a file that could have been deleted.
>  > In a multi-user environment, file systems do not
>  > prevent different users from updating the same
>  > image. The result may be a data which is inconsistent.
>  >
>  > Allow me to reiterate my earlier argument, which is
>  > that FOSS4G should **allow** users the option of storing
>  > raster data in a database. Storing images in a database
>  > is not recommended in each and every situation.
>  > The user should have the option, according to his needs.
>  >
>  > The current debate on whether images should be stored
>  > on an RDBMS reminds me of a similar debate during the
>  > early 90s, concerning whether vector data should be
>  > stored in an RDBMS. Remember the days of ARC-INFO?
>  >
>  > In mid 90s, our team at INPE tried to use the
>  > Postgres-95 RDBMS to store vector data. The result
>  > was a system with a very slow performance.
>  > The concept was right, but the implementation was
>  > lacking. It was only when PostgreSQL and PostGIS
>  > came of age that we could develop a multi-user
>  > spatial database with good performance.
>  >
>  > By the same argument, these are early days of
>  > storing raster data in RDBMS. There are missing
>  > features on the database and the performance may
>  > be slower than file systems. But the concept
>  > is fundamentally correct. I predict that five
>  > years hence this debate will be solved and we
>  > will look at it as a relique of the past.
>  >
>  > Best Regards
>  > Gilberto
>  >
>  > Christopher Schmidt said:
>  > > I don't see anything in that paragraph that indicates that storing
>  > the
>  > > *im

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Raster data on a DBMS

[P Kishor]

On 11/3/08, Gilberto Camara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
..
>
>  Allow me to reiterate my earlier argument, which is
>  that FOSS4G should **allow** users the option of storing
>  raster data in a database. Storing images in a database
>  is not recommended in each and every situation.
>  The user should have the option, according to his needs.
>
..

There are two kinds of users in this world when it comes to storing
raster data... and, fortunately, the world is big enough for both of
them.

The FOSS in FOSS4G gives each kind to develop what they need/want.
There is no concept of "allowing" anyone the option.

Gilberto, my sense is that instead of convincing someone else that
storing rasters in a db can/may be a better option in some cases,
energy and resources might be better deployed in making options
available, and making existing options easier and more powerful.

In another thread you wrote --

"INPE´s FOSS4G developement of raster data on RDBMS using the
TerraLib library is a tangible proof of concept. TerraAmazon
(built using TerraLib) is INPE's OS solution for monitoring
tropical forests operationally."

While I have an earlier version of TerraLib/TerraView that I got when
I visited INPE last year, I am not familiar with its raster-in-db
capabilities. Making and distributing a product that can work on
different platforms, Windows, Macs, *nix, will be the best marketing
for such capabilities, and provide the options that you advocate.

Fwiw, O'Reilly's database war stories series has an article on Flickr
that store metadata in a db and the photos themselves on directly in
the filesystem. See
.
Other stories in that series are also very instructive.

Apple's Aperture does the same thing... all the metadata are in SQLite
(Coredata on Mac OS X) while the images themselves are stored in
folders on the disk -- albeit hidden from the user. See
 and
.

Of course, both of the above examples are of the "high number of small
size images" variety while the raster/geographic applications are of
the "relatively fewer number of very large size images" kind. Still,
the case studies are instructive.

I think the best argument for any approach is the approach itself. The
free and open part in FOSS4G allows any and all approaches to exist.
Scratch your own itch, meet your own need, then put it out for others
to use. If they like it, they will adopt it and improve it. If they
don't like it, it will die a timely death. Darwinian at its best.


-- 
Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] methods for programatically adding fields to shapefiles

[P Kishor]

On 10/29/08, David Bianco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have experience using Perl and the DBI module to do work like this.  I've
> read from dbf files in the past, but have not written to one.  Still, I see
> no reason why it would be a hangup.Let me know if you'd like to go in
> that direction.

Don't need DBI for this. Just Xbase will do the job in seconds (or
less). Keep in mind, there are two Xbases... one is called XBase and
is part of DBD::XBase, while the other is called just Xbase. I have
used XBase (without any of the DBD hangups), and it is lightning fast
in creating dbf files.




>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Alex Mandel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Tyler Erickson wrote:
> >
> > > I am interested in approaches for adding a populated field to a
> shapefile
> > > (for example, adding a new field named 'source_url' with the value
> > > 'http://somewebsite.com').  I would like to do this for several thousand
> > > files.
> > >
> > > At first I thought that I might be able to accomplish it using ogr2org
> with
> > > a sql clause, such as:
> > >
> > > ogr2ogr -sql "select *, 'http://somewebsite.com' as source_url from
> infile"
> > > outfile.shp infile.shp
> > >
> > > but that didn't work since ogr2ogr supports a limited set of SQL,
> described
> > > at:
> > > http://www.gdal.org/ogr/ogr_sql.html
> > >
> > > Any ideas on how to accomplish this? (I would prefer suggestions that
> can be
> > > scripted with python.)
> > >
> > > - Tyler
> > >
> >
> > Open a data connection the dbf with python, add a field to the properties
> of the table and populate the field.
> >
> > There are several ways to connect to a dbf depending on the OS, you could
> use an ODBC connector, or use some other type of dbf driver.
> > I haven't looked closely but there might be a dbf driver in the ogr python
> bindings already.
> >
> > I think my quick fix was to use python windows tools to wrap the dbf com
> object as a python object I could call, but that was a quick a dirty
> solution on windows.
> >
> > The other thing I've done is to create a blank shapefile with the exact
> same scheme + one field. Do an ogr2ogr -f "ESRI Shapefile" -a (append) of
> the blank shapefile and your existing one, and now you have a new field.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
>
> ___
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>


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Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] defining a Geospatial Integration Showcase to be launched at FOSS4G 2009

[P Kishor]

Chris's comments are very valid and very important. I speak from the
position of having been involved in the entire process that gave rise
to the CC0 protocol.

Every jurisdiction has its own laws. Here in the US, databases, for
the most part, cannot be copyrighted. Creative Commons License is
literally a *License* for *Creative*  works, and entails legal
obligations on the part of the entity accepting the license.

The CC0 protocol is *not* a license. It is not legally binding. It is
a *protocol*, a suggested way of doing things. What is says is, in
effect, that scientific data (assuming that geodata are scientific)
are meant for the good of all, and they can't be copyrighted, and so,
should be shared with all without any legal expectation for
attribution but definitely having a customary expectation for
attribution. And, yes, CC0 is also a work in progress.

Any entity that is not comfortable with CC0, not only with the fact
that it is not a license but also possibly not comfortable with the
expectations it lays down, should really pursue its own license. Of
course, that would not be good for the uptake of CC0. It would be nice
for the entire world to adopt and promote CC0 or something like it.

Stuff other than data, such as software, documentation or education
material, can be happily licensed under Creative Commons.




On 10/23/08, Cameron Shorter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris, and the geodata list,
>  Your comments are valid.
>
>  Does OSGeo have an official stance on data licencing? If not, I think we
> should.
>  Currently, the Australian government is moving licencing the majority of
> their data (including geospatial) under Creative Commons.
>
>  The responses I've heard from Australian government about Zero Commons is
> that the license is still in draft, and that a government will need the
> license to move out of draft before a government can recommend government
> agencies use it.
>
>  I assume this is the license being referred:
>  http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CCZero
>
>  Christopher Schmidt wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 08:21:03PM +0900, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Cameron Shorter wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > If we find a data custodian who is keen to get their data into the
> Integration Showcase, what sort of criteria should we be specifying for that
> dataset?
> > > > What license?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0
> > > Same as OpenStreetMap
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Please do not encourage new data releasers to release geodata under
> > creative commons licenses. It has ben a source of major disagreements
> > with regard to openstreetmap, and I don't think it's any better for
> > anyone else.
> >
> > Geodata is not creative. Creative Commons licenses are written for
> > creative works. Even the Creative Commons people I've talked to don't
> > think geodata should be covered under anything other than 'CC Zero'.
> >
> > http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=262 sums this up quite
> well: if you
> > haven't read it, *Please do* before advising anyone who has not already
> > released data on license issues.
> > Regards,
> >
> >
>
>
>  --
>  Cameron Shorter
>  Geospatial Systems Architect
>  Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>  Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
>  Think Globally, Fix Locally
>  Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>  http://www.lisasoft.com
>
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>


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?

[P Kishor]

On 10/19/08, Daniel P. Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks.  As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for 
> Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free 
> "express" editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and 
> Mono.
>
>  MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are 
> strictly MS based.  I don't think this makes them any less human, it just 
> says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows 
> operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not.
>
>  We had a great turnout at the MapWindow lab and worshop in South Africa and 
> got lots of "hey it's great to see .NET open source GIS here" comments.  So, 
> call us mudbloods, but it's an approach that we see has a huge added value 
> for lots of folks.  Bottom line, if having Windows on some lab computers 
> doesn't add a huge expense, then we'd hope that Windows based labs and/or 
> workshops would be encouraged.
>
>  Indeed, consider the opportunities for demonstrating QGIS and GRASS and 
> others on Windows to help convert Linux avoiders over to OSGeo.

I have no skin in this game, but I would second the above sentiment.
While "not free as in beer" should not be as much of a problem as "not
free as in speech," ignoring Windows is perilous and foolish. Because
of its lack of architecture diversity and its monolithic nature,
actually Windows can be a pretty good open source development platform
because one can actually get past dicking around with installing the
damn software and get to developing with it.


>
>  - Dan
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: Dave Patton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:02 PM
>  To: OSGeo Discussions 
>  Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at 
> FOSS4G 2009?
>
>  On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>  > I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a
>  > GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops
>  > and labs at FOSS4G 2009.
>
>  > So my questions to communities are:
>  >
>  > Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your
>  > project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009?
>  >
>  > For presenters, would you want to add tutorial material to the
>  > LiveDVD, which would mean using an Open licence like Creative
>  > Commons?
>
>  I would start by asking a different question - does anyone
>  foresee any issue with not having MS Windows available as
>  an option for Workshops/Labs for FOSS4G 2009?
>
>  We might not want to restrict the discussion to "OSGeo projects".
>  What if a Sponsor, or Exhibitor, or 'some software company', or
>  'some non-OSGeo project' submitted a proposal to deliver a
>  Workshop/Lab, and it merited consideration for inclusion in the
>  conference, but it required MS Windows?
>
>  Were there Workshops/Labs at FOSS4G 2008 that could not have
>  been delivered without having MS Windows?
>
>  If we assume that there was 'some need' for MS Windows for
>  FOSS4G 2009, but that it wasn't needed for "all the PCs",
>  how would people react to Workshops/Labs that required
>  MS Windows also requiring a higher registration fee?
>  (i.e. higher by the incremental cost of the license to
>  use MS Windows on the PC for the Workshop/Lab)
>
>
>  P.S.
>  It helps if everyone uses the term "Instructors" when
>  referring to Workshops/Labs, because "Presenter" makes
>  people think of "Presentations", and sometimes that
>  causes confusion.
>
>  --
>  Dave Patton
>  CIS Canadian Information Systems
>  Victoria, B.C.
>
>  Degree Confluence Project:
>  Canadian Coordinator
>  Technical Coordinator
>  http://www.confluence.org/
>
>  OSGeo FOSS4G2007 conference:
>  Workshop Committee Chair
>  Conference Committee member
>  http://www.foss4g2007.org/
>
>  Personal website:
>  Maps, GPS, etc.
>  http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
>  ___



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