Re: [slim] Ideas for improving the sync-experience

2010-02-17 Thread pippin

Please also have a look at the current incarnation of the SyncOptions
plugin.


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Re: [slim] Ideas for improving the sync-experience

2010-02-17 Thread erland

>From a user point of view I think we need some kind of "zone" concept, I
suppose this might be the same as what you call sync groups. 

- It should be possible to configure a player so it's part of several
zones but obviously it can only play music in one zone at the time
- In the user interface you should be able to select a zone (or a
single player)
- When you select a zone and starts to play, it should move all players
in the zone to the correct server and start playing them synchronized

Some samples of zones:
- Bottom floor
- Whole house
- Livingroom and kitchen

In this concept, the kitchen Boom might be part of all three zones.
1. The user select "Whole house" and start to play something, the
kitchen Boom is connected to the sync group and starts to play.
2. The user select "Bottom floor" and start to play something, the
kitchen Boom is disconnected from the "Whole house" sync group and
connected to the "Bottom floor" sync group and starts to play the new
music. The remaining players in "Whole house" keeps playing the old
music.

I think it's also worth to look at iPeng as I think it provides the
best synchronization configuration available for the Squeezebox products
at the moment.

The issue that's going to trouble the developers are the fact that
players might be connected to different servers. When you select a zone
some of its players might be connected to MySB.com, some to the Touch
and some to your full SBS server somewhere else in the house.


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[slim] Ideas for improving the sync-experience

2010-02-17 Thread Muele

The squeezebox system always gets bashed for it's poor user interface
when it comes to managing synchronisation.

Can we as a community come up with some good ideas that can the
developers can use to improve on this?

Could we as a community come up with constructive ideas how the
developers can improve it? 
Not so much on the touch. They can get plenty of inspiration from
iPeng, Sonos, Slimcontrol etc. But for the spinning-wheel/knob devices,
Radio and controller. Maybe also leave out the VFD based devices as
their limited visualization makes it hard to do the massive improvement
that is needed. I don't own one, so I may be wrong. But my own focus
will be on squeezeplay devices with a wheel/knob.

I will start out with a couple of ideas:

1. Let users define sync-groups that the system remembers. I.e. which
players are in the group and which playlist should take over.

2. Easier stopping of multi-sync. If I e.g. sync 3 devices I need to
switch between players to get the players to play individually. The
party has finished, I just want to kill all sync "with one click".


-- 
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BR Mogens

1 Radio, 2 Controllers, 2 Receivers, 1 Squeezeplay. Served by an old
800 mhz IBM T21 Thinkpad.

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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread dsdreamer

bobkoure;518031 Wrote: 
> FWIW, I tried 7.4.0, 7.4.1, had troubles with both (musicip and scanning
> in 4.0, missing artwork in both), and dropped back to the latest 7.3.
> More trouble than going from 6.x to 7.x - for -me-. It may go just fine
> for you.
> About the only thing I'm doing that might be a bit out of the ordinary
> is run Win2K server OS (seems to be a bit lighter on resources than 2k3,
> not using linux as musicip on it was a major PITA). Hardware's a bit
> lightweight, too (Via C7 / 2G memory).

I think the best version of 7.3 you can get is 7.3.4
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/SqueezeCenter_v7.3.4/, while the best
version of 7.4 is almost invariably the latest nightly of 7.4.2
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.4

People naturally want the fully QA's version, but IMO that is a poor
trade off against actually having some more bugs squashed. It's nice to
have choices, though.


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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread bobkoure

FWIW, I tried 7.4.0, 7.4.1, had troubles with both (musicip and scanning
in 4.0, missing artwork in both), and dropped back to the latest 7.3.
More trouble than going from 6.x to 7.x - for -me-. It may go just fine
for you.
About the only thing I'm doing that might be a bit out of the ordinary
is run Win2K server OS (seems to be a bit lighter on resources than 2k3,
not using linux as musicip on it was a major PITA). Hardware's a bit
lightweight, too (Via C7 / 2G memory).


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Re: [slim] US Music Services through US Proxy

2010-02-17 Thread johnas

Sike;517852 Wrote: 
> Just gave it a spin with a proxy I found on Google and it works like a
> charm.
> 
> I took a bash at trying to find a decent unlimited proxy, but could not
> find anything decent. I need unlimited because I listen to local radio
> stations too, so I have quite a bit of traffic.
> 
> Any ideas anyone?

You could look at a VPN service - some have both US and UK based
servers so you have access to services that are geo blocked in both
countries. You can get an unlimited OpenVPN service for about 60US$.
This might be overkill though if you would only use it for your SBS.


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

pski;518008 Wrote: 
> At any rate, sync in itself wouldn't prompt me to pay double for Sonos.
> p

Me netiher. I'm just saying I sympathise with the POV. Especially after
trying this on Sonos and getting used to iPeng.


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread pski

bhaagensen;517986 Wrote: 
> Its cumbersome, for a number of reasons:
> 
> - Syncing >2 is fiddly, as others have pointed out.
> - There is no clear clues as to what the semantics is. Is sync, 'to' or
> 'from', or... The only way to know is to learn by doing and memorize it.
> This perhaps applies in particular to those of us who have been around
> long enough to know that the semantics has actually changed at least
> once.
> - When a sync group is set up, you still have to remember which one is
> the 'to', when you want to change tracks etc.
> - Volume is either absolutely synced, or not at all. iPeng allows for
> arbitrary level sync while maintaining easy access to individual
> volumes.
> - If players are connected to different sources, be it
> SqueezeboxServers, or Squeezenetwork, even more footwork is required.
> 
> Agreed, this is not impossible, but it is unnecessarily complicated.

It doesn't matter which player is selected in a sync group: changing
the current track list is shared across all the players. (Maybe this
didn't always work this way.)

I usually don't fiddle with the volume(s.) Normally (as for phone
calls,) the pause button works well.

If you change the music source from one SBS to another SBS, all the
synced players are moved to the new source. I like this.

Since my house is usually a "single-user-system" I keep all the players
synced. Even so, their systems are powerful to the point where listening
to several different songs at once would be really annoying..

At any rate, sync in itself wouldn't prompt me to pay double for
Sonos.

p


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

Aslak3;517971 Wrote: 
> I don't agree with this this?  Sync is straightforward both from the SBS
> interface and from the SB itself.  At least with 2 players as I've never
> had the opportunity to sync >2 SB.

Its cumbersome, for a number of reasons:

- Syncing >2 is fiddly, as others have pointed out.
- There is no clear clues as to what the semantics is. Is sync, 'to' or
'from', or... The only way to know is to learn by doing and memorize it.

- When a sync group is set up, you still have to remember which one is
the 'to', when you want to change tracks etc.
- Volume is either absolutely synced, or not at all. iPeng allows for
arbitrary level sync while maintaining easy access to individual
volumes.
- If players are connected to different sources, be it
SqueezeboxServers, or Squeezenetwork, even more footwork is required.

Agreed, this is not impossible, but it is unnecessarily complicated.


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread toby10

Their should be a Sync All option within the basic Sync setting.


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread pski

Aslak3;517971 Wrote: 
> I don't agree with this this?  Sync is straightforward both from the SBS
> interface and from the SB itself.  At least with 2 players as I've never
> had the opportunity to sync >2 SB.

It's a little clunky: you have to sync the first two and then switch to
the third and sync it to the other two..

I use it all the time with a receiver/boom/SB3 playing apple lossless.
I've only had an issue when one of the players goes goofy (every 3
months or so.) At that point, power cycle of the player fixes the issue
immediately.

P


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread Aslak3

bhaagensen;517952 Wrote: 
> Or iPeng which is very good at this - but of course requires
> iPhone/Touch. But you're right. Before I got this I almost never used
> synch - too cumbersome (and I don't really need it that bad)

I don't agree with this this?  Sync is straightforward both from the
SBS interface and from the SB itself.  At least with 2 players as I've
never had the opportunity to sync >2 SB.


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Re: [slim] Cannot play all tracks under the All Songs setting

2010-02-17 Thread pski

kmax58;517966 Wrote: 
> Is it possible to play all songs by an Artist from multiple albums?
> 
> Using my squeezebox duet remote I see that there is an option under
> 'All ARTISTS' to select an individual album or list all of the tracks
> from all albums by that artist via 'All SONGS'. If I choose all songs I
> had assumed that it would play all the tracks from all the albums
> however it only plays which ever song I select and if I try to play the
> next by hitting the forward button it simply repeats the same song. I
> would like to be able to play all of the songs.
> 
> I have looked under the settings in squeezebox server > web control >
> player settings and it is set to play "ALL OTHER SONGS IN AN ALBUM OR
> DIRECTORY. I had assumed that this is the setting I need.
> 
> Thank you

My Music/Artists/ press RIGHT ARROW

All songs by that artist are now in playlist.

p


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Re: [slim] Itunes Genius how can I have it in my sueezebox

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

Its possible. Search the forums for 'musicip'. Its not trivial to set up
- but not impossible either. Again, search forum.


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[slim] Cannot play all tracks under the All Songs setting

2010-02-17 Thread kmax58

Is it possible to play all songs by an Artist from multiple albums?

Using my squeezebox duet remote I see that there is an option under
'All ARTISTS' to select an individual album or list all of the tracks
from all albums by that artist via 'All SONGS'. If I choose all songs I
had assumed that it would play all the tracks from all the albums
however it only plays which ever song I select and if I try to play the
next by hitting the forward button it simply repeats the same song. I
would like to be able to play all of the songs.

I have looked under the settings in squeezebox server > web control >
player settings and it is set to play "ALL OTHER SONGS IN AN ALBUM OR
DIRECTORY. I had assumed that this is the setting I need.

Thank you


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Re: [slim] iPeng on iPad - How should it look like?

2010-02-17 Thread twylie

I am definitely looking forward to the iPad for this and a few other
"control" apps I expect will be killer on the device.

Wired posted a video yesterday of how their app will look on the
device.  The video is VERY cool and is actually running live code and
content.  It may give you some different ideas for constructs and
design.

Just as their app is trying to redefine static/interactive content, I
think there is great opportunity to have a music application running on
the iPad that becomes very immersive.  I can see where it could allow
the user to free roam music, musical connections, history, etc. all
within one tidy application.

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/the-wired-ipad-app-a-video-demonstration/


-- 
twylie

Thecus N5200 -> transporter -> Krell KRC2 -> 4 x nuforce 8b -> Von
Schweikert VR-4 Gen III

Thecus N5200 -> SB3 -> Monarchy DIP -> Monarchy Super DIP -> Monarchy
18b -> AES 845 monos -> Sonus Faber Concertos / Audio Physic Sparks

Thecus N5200 -> SB3 -> Russound CAV6.6 and CAM6.6 -> whole house audio

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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

Kuben72;517950 Wrote: 
> IMO he nailed the biggest problem of SB on the dot: The way to
> accomplish synchronisation between 2 or more players is too difficult.
> Without the use of Eric Koldingers Synchronizer-plugin it is beyond what
> a standard user can figure out.

Or iPeng which is very good at this - but of course requires
iPhone/Touch. But you're right. Before I got this I almost never used
synch - too cumbersome (and I don't really need it that bad)


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread Kuben72

IMO he nailed the biggest problem of SB on the dot: The way to
accomplish synchronisation between 2 or more players is too difficult.
Without the use of Eric Koldingers Synchronizer-plugin it is beyond what
a standard user can figure out.


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/Kuben72

1 Duet, 1 SBR, 1 SB3 and 1 Boom

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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread Aslak3

Schindler;517686 Wrote: 
> Maybe they are right...
> 
> - Tell me why I have to enter my podcast streams at mysqueezebox.com if
> I run my own server?! Hää! 
> 
> Christian

My bug on this:

https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15399

Note that this only true on SqueezePlay.  Before I got a Radio I used
my local SMS and had no issues.


-- 
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(SB 2, SB Boom, SB Radio)

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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

slate;517786 Wrote: 
> For your entertainment http://www.dr.dk/dr2/soeinding
> 
> About the drifting with multiple players - There is no doubt that he
> (Sonne) is an iSheap and as such his music would not be in FLAC, but
> rather ALAC/MP3.
> But why should the music format have an affect?! yes if a non-native
> format the server will have to convert; but that is hopefully only done
> once before streaming. so?!

Not sure about the status of ALAC, but mp3 should work. Synch seems to
work fine for most. I guess he was just unlucky. IMO he could have
mentioned something like this instead of only relying on his own
experience.


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread maggior

slate;517786 Wrote: 
> 
> There is no doubt that he (Sonne) is an iSheap and as such his music
> would not be in FLAC, but rather ALAC/MP3.
> But why should the music format have an affect?! yes if a non-native
> format the server will have to convert; but that is hopefully only done
> once before streaming. so?!

iSheep...that's pretty funny!

The music format *should not* matter, but I imagine it could.  I
mentioned it just to qualify my statement that I've seen no issues with
multiplayer sync.


-- 
maggior

Rich
-
Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver.  SuSE 11.0 Server running
SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave.  
Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists.
http://www.last.fm/user/maggior

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[slim] Itunes Genius how can I have it in my sueezebox

2010-02-17 Thread Jac

I have been using Itunes quit a lot in the last month and I must admit I
love the Genius function.  It is simple and it does what I want when I
just want to listen to certain type of music .  Now how can I have this
feature available with my home Squeezebox setup?  has anyone ever
thought of developing a plugin that would allow this?


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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread sander

upstatemike;517847 Wrote: 
> I guess if it will breathe new life into my SliMP3 players then it would
> be worth considering but 7.5 is a ways off yet. I don't see enough
> advantage now to dive into 7.4.1 or 7.4.2

I'm in the same boat. Moving to 7.4.x in the near term won't keep you
current once 7.5 comes out. Also I really don't like the whole apps
approach, and changing menus in 7.4. Lastly when my server crashed a
while back it reminded me how much customization I'd done to all the
menus on different devices that needs to be redone. I have a controller
which would presumably benefit, but its unclear how much at this point.


The superdatetime problems were a scare, but outside of that and
possibly some of the services not working eventually I'll probably stay
on 7.3.4 as long as my hardware holds out, unless I see some real
improvements which overcome the inconvenience of upgrading.


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Re: [slim] PDA-controller SlimControl 0.95

2010-02-17 Thread arztde

Locuth;517881 Wrote: 
> Yes it would, but how can I access / retrieve them via SQCntr.
> Or do you want to keep them on your mobile phone ??

Maybee to ask first there is a local file with same name as the music
file. You saw the structure  and infos i did send you.

Also the different C++ codes.

In a first version its good justit works... Ok you can test up and
download possibility.. but its just text and transfer is fast. And done
only if you need. So it can stay on server. Slimcontrol have only to
prove its a lrc file with synchronisation
are not the correct time tags inside, than interpretation is like a
mormal lyrics tag
For this there is a better phone talk


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Re: [slim] PDA-controller SlimControl 0.95

2010-02-17 Thread Locuth

Yes it would, but how can I access / retrieve them via SQCntr.
Or do you want to keep them on your mobile phone ??


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Re: [slim] PDA-controller SlimControl 0.95

2010-02-17 Thread arztde

Is it possible tohave acess to local lrc files?
the files from lircdb are not reviewed in a good way. They should match
with each album extra. Because each Album can have another version. So i
like to do them im parts of my own and to add extendant tags


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arztde

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Re: [slim] PDA-controller SlimControl 0.95

2010-02-17 Thread Locuth

So sorry - it's already back in :-)

Even though I don't remember actually putting it in any 'official'
release.
When I re-implemented it the other night, I could seriously not find
any working code for 'new music'  

Release will be uploaded tonight.


-- 
Locuth

Use your PDA/Phone as SqueezeBox remote -- http://sc.sciatec.de

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[slim] radio iskelma doesnt work

2010-02-17 Thread donjohngotti

hey folks radio iskelma is a finnish radiostation and doesnt work on
squeezebox radio, ive checked on the sq radiotime site and it says
available. this channel is only available in finland maybe thats why?
thx!


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Re: [slim] US Music Services through US Proxy

2010-02-17 Thread Sike

Just gave it a spin with a proxy I found on Google and it works like a
charm.

I took a bash at trying to find a decent unlimited proxy, but could not
find anything decent. I need unlimited because I listen to local radio
stations too, so I have quite a bit of traffic.

Any ideas anyone?


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Re: [slim] PDA-controller SlimControl 0.95

2010-02-17 Thread Blisteringblue

Current beta3 still working great.  Any reason why you dropped the "New
Music" button with this release?  It is the one I tend to use the most. 
No "biggie" though.

Keep up the good work.


-- 
Blisteringblue

'What am I listening to?' (http://www.last.fm/user/blisteringblue)

1 x Boom, 1 x Receiver, 1 x HTC TP2 & 'Slimcontrol'
(http://sc.sciatec.de/)

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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread upstatemike

aubuti;517844 Wrote: 
> Maybe, maybe not. 7.5-embedded with SQLite has some nice speed
> improvements in the scanning and web ui that would benefit all players.
> And the smaller resource requirements would especially benefit those
> running SBS on marginal hardware, such as NASs and low-power PCs.

I guess if it will breathe new life into my SliMP3 players then it
would be worth considering but 7.5 is a ways off yet. I don't see enough
advantage now to dive into 7.4.1 or 7.4.2


-- 
upstatemike

6x SliMP3, 1x SB1, 2x SB2, 10x SB3, 2x SBR, 4x SBC, 1x Boom

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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread upstatemike

Good to know 7.4.2 works well for the older platforms (apart from
breaking the analog clock on the controller), but still have not heard a
strong enough advantage to make it worth upgrading in an environment
like mine with no Radio or SqueezeNetwork.


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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread aubuti

upstatemike;517834 Wrote: 
> It may be that 7.3.3 ends up as the high water mark for the legacy
> SB2/SB3/Boom products.
Maybe, maybe not. 7.5-embedded with SQLite has some nice speed
improvements in the scanning and web ui that would benefit all players.
And the smaller resource requirements would especially benefit those
running SBS on marginal hardware, such as NASs and low-power PCs.


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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread garym

Just to chime in with my 2 cents. I'm running 7.4.2 on a windows xp
machine, serving a BOOM, duet, transporter, and SB3, and my experience
has been rock solid. My wife uses the controller and I use iPeng. I run
many of erland's plugins (superdatetime, music info screen, dynamic
playlists, custom browse, etc. etc., along with xmradio plugin). I'm not
suggesting you upgrade if everything works, but didn't want to leave
other readers with the idea that there is something inherently wrong
with 7.4.2.  I went from 7.3.3 to 7.4.1 myself. I think most of the
problems were with 7.4.0.


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Re: [slim] Slimserver 6.5.1 Problem: Songs Cut Off

2010-02-17 Thread toby10

Flatpik;517744 Wrote: 
> It cuts off every song 3/4 of the way through and starts the next song. 
> What a POS.

If just a rant, task complete!  ;)

If you would like some help in resolving your issue I'd suggest
creating a new thread (this is a three year old thread discussing a
discontinued server version).
In the new thread I'd also suggest giving as many details of your setup
as possible.   :)


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Re: [slim] Any Good reason to upgrade from 7.3.3?

2010-02-17 Thread upstatemike

Looks like an even split but I guess I will stay put. I was able to get
SuperDateTime fixed under 7.3.3 and doing nothing is easier than doing
something. I also feel that all focus after 7.3.3 is on the new
touchscreen/facebook/twitter lifestyle product rollouts and anything new
is just as likely to break something in the non-revenue generating
legacy players as it is to improve them. It may be that 7.3.3 ends up as
the high water mark for the legacy SB2/SB3/Boom products.


-- 
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6x SliMP3, 1x SB1, 2x SB2, 10x SB3, 2x SBR, 4x SBC, 1x Boom

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Re: [slim] iPeng on iPad - How should it look like?

2010-02-17 Thread richardcarter

Coverflow - obvious one

Integration with API's - last.fm/myspace etc. etc. - details of artist,
gigs etc.

Something radical )) . for large music collections why not come up with
a completely radical interface for finding music, instead of the usual
list, thumb view. Something you can 'play' with and explore in a
visually appealing 'artistic' way:)

think multitouch experience, shapes, colours, movement, resizing,
attractors, repellants. These elements or 'data representations' can be
used in different combinations to find music. Could be used selecting
genre,year or year range, linking with online API's data to create links
to other artists and making suggestions. 

Just think something a lot more could be done with a large multitouch
screen with animation etc. 

Loads of ideas on here - http://visualizingmusic.com/page/2/ - may help
get a better understanding of what I am on about :)

and this is really nice to play with - http://www.fidgt.com/visualize


-- 
richardcarter

' [image: http://imagegen.last.fm/basic10/oartists/variacpoint4.gif] '
(http://www.last.fm/user/variacpoint4/?chartstyle=basic10)

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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread slate

bhaagensen Wrote: 
> 
> The show is available online - albeit in danish of course...

For your entertainment http://www.dr.dk/dr2/soeinding

About the drifting with multiple players - There is no doubt that he
(Sonne) is an iSheap and as such his music would not be in FLAC, but
rather ALAC/MP3.
But why should the music format have an affect?! yes if a non-native
format the server will have to convert; but that is hopefully only done
once before streaming. so?!


-- 
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Main: Duet -> Beresford Caiman -> Carver A-500x -> B&W 704
Office: Duet -> Technics SU-V50 -> Stax SR84 Pro
Server: Zotac IONITX-A, 4 GB, 1 TB WD EADS, Win7

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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

Justme;517707 Wrote: 
> This point interests me, though I'm not entirely sure I understand
> exactly what he was saying here.
> 

I should emphasise that I don't really recall exactly what his issues
where. The incentiment was that it is too complicated to be easy :S Not
complicated as in incomprehensible, but rather as in 'this requires many
user operations'. E.g. suppose you have three players already connected
to local and remote servers and you do not know which is connected
where. The goal is to have the three players play some given three
tracks on given players. This takes quite some button pushing and wheel
spinning to accomplish on the Duet - can't argue that.

In addition is the whole challenge of understanding this eco-system of
servers and players to begin with. Again not impossible for most, but
you need to be willing to bother in a non-trivial way. 

The show is available online - albeit in danish of course...


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Re: [slim] Sonos is better than Squeezebox in Denmark...

2010-02-17 Thread bhaagensen

pski;517726 Wrote: 
> Does Sonos allow over-the-internet streaming to remote hardware?
> P

I don't really know, but afaik they use upnp for accessing music on the
external network and also need a single ethernet connection. With
suitable port-forwarding etc. I see no reason this should/could not
work. Perhaps others know for sure.


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