Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-28 Thread slimpy

MrSinatra;296520 Wrote: 
 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8001
I see you got carried away there in post #8...
Not every problem with your tags can and should be solved by the SD
people.
You always tell people how you stick to the id3 specification and how
reluctant you are to use non-standard frames.
Your use of the TPE2 frame to denote soundtrack albums certainly isn't
standard.
What does Soundtrack have to do with album artist, band, orchestra or
composer?
Put Soundtrack in the genre frame (TCON) instead.
Use a seperator character if you already have a genre in your tags and
don't want to overwrite it.

-s.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-28 Thread MrSinatra

slimpy;296539 Wrote: 
 I see you got carried away there in post #8...
 Not every problem with your tags can and should be solved by the SD
 people.

i absolutely agree.  sloppy tags for instance, are not a slim problem.

but this case is different, and i can explain why in one sentence:

SC7 has NO WAY for mp3 users to properly group/sort/organize/arrange
their albums without using a user defined tag, meaning a tag other than
whats spec'd in v2.3

i totally understand your view that slim can't handle every mutation,
but this is very, very basic stuff, b/c 2.3 is universal, even in how
its abused its practically universal.  if you don't see it that way
then i guess we just have to agree to disagree.

slimpy;296539 Wrote: 
 You always tell people how you stick to the id3 specification and how
 reluctant you are to use non-standard frames.

to be more accurate, i point out that this is the reality that most
[mp3] people and most (in marketshare) apps stick to.  can't fight the
tide.

slimpy;296539 Wrote: 
 Your use of the TPE2 frame to denote soundtrack albums certainly isn't
 standard.

i should clarify that...  i don't have a set in concrete system for
this, and it wasn't me who started this on my tags.  it was one of my
apps, most likely WMP.  so i just did that more uniformly.

also, in winamp, when it auto-tags, it occassionally puts Various
Artists or Soundtrack or something like that in TPE2, but thats a
fairly new development, as winamp hasn't autotagged and even used TPE2
for that long.  maybe a year or so?  (using gracenote i believe)

i readily admit using TPE2 for anything other than the spec is
improper.  but it is the defacto standard.  its just as much a defacto
standard as usuing user defined tags is that SC7 does respect.  its
universal in practical terms in other words.

slimpy;296539 Wrote: 
 What does Soundtrack have to do with album artist, band, orchestra or
 composer?
 Put Soundtrack in the genre frame (TCON) instead.

yes, i do do that, (the genre frame).  but i wanted to separate VA
albums from soundtracks, as they are in that sense, distinctly
different.

so for instance, when i have list albums by band (which is all the
time in SC7), it'll say such and such an album is by various artists
for one cd, and such and such an album is by original soundtrack for
another cd.

its just my preference, i don't claim it to be perfect, or to be how
other people should do it.

slimpy;296539 Wrote: 
 Use a seperator character if you already have a genre in your tags and
 don't want to overwrite it.
 
 -s.

can you explain this a bit more?  do you mean take:

Rock

and make it:

Rock - Soundtrack

?

i mean, thats a great idea and all, but it doesn't affect the grouping
issue, which is the main thing i am trying to address.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-10 Thread MrSinatra

snarlydwarf;284888 Wrote: 
 that said, I would buy into a bug report that TPE2 is not being treated
 exactly as ALBUMARTIST is.  I am not sure on what use displaying, but
 not sorting on that field would be.  That would seem inconsistent.

i couldn't agree more.  :)


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-10 Thread snarlydwarf

MrSinatra;289753 Wrote: 
 i couldn't agree more.  :)

And, as I said in the other thread (geesh, would you stop beating a
dead horse?  You are only stirring up excrement and flies), I have
since looked at my own collection and see why TPE2 is used as it is.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-10 Thread MrSinatra

you just can't avoid commentary...

regardless, the point still stands.  what is the point of displaying
TPE2 and not sorting by it?

in other words, using your sinatra/dorsey example, why would someone
want to display Dorsey but not have it sort by Dorsey?  seems a very
rare and esoteric request, compared to displaying Dorsey AND sorting by
Dorsey.

(keep in mind that in my case which is not rare, it wouldn't
NECESSARILY sort with Sinatra either, not if any track on the album had
a differing artist in the TPE1 field, ...in that case it would become VA
which is another reason why sort by TPE2 as an OPTION in needed)


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-10 Thread snarlydwarf

...

*plonk*


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-07 Thread bullgod

snarlydwarf;284860 Wrote: 
 Right, and Thirty Years of Maximum RB by The Who should be listed under
 The Who even though some tracks are credited to the High Numbers.
 
 That is working perfect for me:
  
Code:

  
   Album:  Thirty Years of Maximum R  B
   Album Artist: The Who
   Artist: The Who, The High Numbers
   Year: 1994
   Duration: 129:58 
   

  
 
 
 
 Agreed, and that seems working for me (see above).  On the pure
 'albums' list, it only shows The Who (again, what I would expect and
 I like that, and think that agrees with your expectations).
 

You missed the point. What happens when you use the Artist List?
Are all you Who albums listed together? or does this one come under
Various Artists, I suspect the latter.

snarlydwarf;284860 Wrote: 
 
 Ah, so you have a problem with it importing all this from iTunes?  That
 is really where the problem lies then, the interconnect between the two?
 The catch here is that no one can do much about that other than Apple:
 they have a propietary and changing interface and the documentation is
 mostly reverse-engineered.
 
 Thats like saying you want OpenOffice to be able to import -exactly-
 from random versions of Word.  That would be nice, too, but would
 depend on Microsoft playing nice... in both cases, it is against the
 business interests of Apple and Microsoft to play nice with others, or
 at least so they believe.  (Personally, I think interoperation can
 increase sales, and open API's are good even for the major players, but
 I don't have the money of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs...)
 
 It really sounds like the confusion is in the interpretation and
 conversion of metadata from iTunes.
 
 (And, no, I don't think I am shooting you down in flames: I am trying
 to understand the origin of your problem in order to provide a
 solution.  If you are importing from iTunes, then what iTunes provides
 and the way it presents it is very relevant... and only Apple can
 change that.)

No. This is not the problem, or a valid analogy. If you want me to
expand or why this is we can continue this discussion elsewhere.


snarlydwarf;284860 Wrote: 
 
 It lists fine by Album Artist for me...
 

No, what happens is when you list Album, the correct Album Artist is
displayed along side them.

What is required, is when listing Artists, all their Albums are listed
together. So the above Album is listed next to Live and Leeds, also
by The Who.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-04-06 Thread MrSinatra

here's the thing...  i think a TPE2 tag is by mp3.org standard a band or
albumartist tag, but i could be wrong.  

(if i do indeed only have a TPE2 field, and no other fields for this
data, then both WMP and winamp as well as mp3tag all interpret that
info as albumartist OR band interchangeably)

i don't even know for sure if my tags are tpe2, but i am now assuming
so.  i wish i had a program that would just show me the raw data in my
tags, not just the data of the info for a given field, but what the
field itself is too.

in any case, it seems to me you are using a 3rd party tag prog
workaround to get your tags done in such a way as to get SC7 to handle
them the way you want.

my point from the beginning of this thread has been that SC7 does not
sort correctly when using a generic tag type setup.

i think i laid it all out well here, let me know what you think in this
thread please:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45876


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread slimpy

MrSinatra;284577 Wrote: 
 i still wonder what would have happened had u left it as is and renamed
 the album name tags.
If the album was renamed it would have solved the problem as well.
MrSinatra;284577 Wrote: 
 i don't understand however, why that tag would connect those two albums.
from post #5 in this thread:
slimpy;283348 Wrote: 
 Squeezecenter groups albums with the same name together if a DISCNUMBER
 tag is set (for multi-disc albums which can reside in one directory per
 disc).

-s.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread Jeff Flowerday

slimpy;284624 Wrote: 
 If the album was renamed it would have solved the problem as well.
 
 from post #5 in this thread:
 
 
 -s.

I can understand why disc number would cause this to happen, but in the
case when the disc number is 1/1 then it should really ignore the disc
number, IMO.

Either way it it doesn't matter to me because I label my multi disc
sets with [Disc #] in the album name, so these tags are of no use to me
anyway and have been completely deleted.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread slimpy

Jeff Flowerday;284754 Wrote: 
 I can understand why disc number would cause this to happen, but in the
 case when the disc number is 1/1 then it should really ignore the disc
 number, IMO.
I think the scanner completely ignores the values in the disc number
tag when it reads the files, it merely checks for the presence of the
tag and adds the value to the database.
The problem is that discnumber doesn't need to contain the total number
of discs. An entry like DISCNUMBER=1 is valid and there's no way for the
scanner to know if there are more discs of this album or not.
But you are right, the scanner could check for 1/1 values (but it also
needs to check for DISC=1 and DISCC=1 and all other variants) and
ignore them.
IMO it doesn't make sense to tag files with DISCNUMBER=1/1 anyway as
this provides zero information. DISCNUMBER tags are only really useful
on multi-disc albums.

-s.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

is this not a bug?  i think it is, or at least, its something SC7 should
handle better.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread bullgod

slimpy;283723 Wrote: 
 Keep in mind that SC treats albums as a compilation if it finds more
 than one artist.
 One solution is to tag the files with COMPILATION=0 (as you did). If
 I'm correct this will however lead to the album being listed as album
 by artist A, artist B and the album will be listed under both
 artists.
 I usually don't list guest performers in the artist field but append
 them to the track title, eg. (feat. artist A)
 Guest artists don't appear in the artist list this way but they can
 still be found by a quick search.
 I don't want albums to be listed under an artist if that artist only
 appears as a guest performer on one or two songs on the album.
 
 YMMV, of course.
 
 -s.

The trouble is this wrong. Or at least contrary to expectations, and
contrary to iTunes.

For example: a album of 20 Frank Sinatra tracks, on one of which Frank
is joined by Shirley MacLain. 
Now does this make the album a Compilation? It shouldn't do, especially
if I have Compilation=No. 
If I set the Album Artist to Frank Sinatra should this be listed
under Various Artists, of course not.

Example #2: Adrian Boult and the LPO play Wagner. Under iTunes a can
set the composer to Richard Wanger, the Album Artist to Wagner and
Artist for each track to be Adrian Boult (plus appropriate soloist). 
Now under iTunes I can list this cd by Album by Artist and it appears
under W for Wagner. All right and proper. But under SC this now gets
listed under Adrian Boult and assorted other Various Artists No!

Now I'm not saying iTunes is correct at all time, but SC does ask if
I'm also using iTune s and should be able to work in concert.

I've pointed this out before and got shot down in flames. SC needs a
List by Album Artist option because the List album by band option
is not fit for purpose. 
Only in the absence of the Album Artist, should the track artist be
used in this circumstance.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

let me clarify that a bit for you...

album artist and band are both tpe2 tags.  so essentially the same.

when SC7 says list by band thats the same as saying list by album
artist, and all it means is it DISPLAYS that tag as by album artist
it does not mean to suggest it SORTS by that tag.

however, i agree with you, SC7 should absolutely have the option sort
by the tpe2 tag, and consider soundtracks and so on as various
artists.

this is something i have been trying to figure out...  when the wiki is
back, i want everyone to help me figure out the logic sc7 uses to do
sorting base on files, folders, tags, etc...

and i think SC7 should be smart enough to get it right wihout
compilation tags, which imo, are an iunes thing and not really
necessary to create a working system.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

bullgod;284848 Wrote: 
 For example: a album of 20 Frank Sinatra tracks, on one of which Frank
 is joined by Shirley MacLain. 
 Now does this make the album a Compilation? It shouldn't do, especially
 if I have Compilation=No. 

Right, and Thirty Years of Maximum RB by The Who should be listed
under The Who even though some tracks are credited to the High
Numbers.

That is working perfect for me:

Code:


  Album:  Thirty Years of Maximum R  B
  Album Artist: The Who
  Artist: The Who, The High Numbers
  Year: 1994
  Duration: 129:58 
  



 
 If I set the Album Artist to Frank Sinatra should this be listed
 under Various Artists, of course not.
 

Agreed, and that seems working for me (see above).  On the pure
'albums' list, it only shows The Who (again, what I would expect and I
like that, and think that agrees with your expectations).

 
 Example #2: Adrian Boult and the LPO play Wagner. Under iTunes a can
 set the composer to Richard Wanger, the Album Artist to Wagner and
 Artist for each track to be Adrian Boult (plus appropriate soloist). 
 Now under iTunes I can list this cd by Album by Artist and it appears
 under W for Wagner. All right and proper. But under SC this now gets
 listed under Adrian Boult and assorted other Various Artists No!

It does?  We seem to have some different settings...

If AlbumArtist is set to Richard Wagner, it should sort there, much
like the Thirty Years does above.  Now, depending on other settings in
SC, it would also show up under Boult in some browsing (ie, browse by
artist), but then that makes sense ... he is an artist on the track
since you set the artist tag.

Can you be more specific in what behavior you are seeing?


 
 Now I'm not saying iTunes is correct at all time, but SC does ask if
 I'm also using iTune s and should be able to work in concert.

Ah, so you have a problem with it importing all this from iTunes?  That
is really where the problem lies then, the interconnect between the two?
The catch here is that no one can do much about that other than Apple:
they have a propietary and changing interface and the documentation is
mostly reverse-engineered.

Thats like saying you want OpenOffice to be able to import -exactly-
from random versions of Word.  That would be nice, too, but would
depend on Microsoft playing nice... in both cases, it is against the
business interests of Apple and Microsoft to play nice with others, or
at least so they believe.  (Personally, I think interoperation can
increase sales, and open API's are good even for the major players, but
I don't have the money of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs...)

 
 I've pointed this out before and got shot down in flames. SC needs a
 List by Album Artist option because the List album by band option
 is not fit for purpose. 
 Only in the absence of the Album Artist, should the track artist be
 used in this circumstance.

It lists fine by Album Artist for me...

It really sounds like the confusion is in the interpretation and
conversion of metadata from iTunes.

(And, no, I don't think I am shooting you down in flames: I am trying
to understand the origin of your problem in order to provide a
solution.  If you are importing from iTunes, then what iTunes provides
and the way it presents it is very relevant... and only Apple can
change that.)


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

my SC7 does not, and has never, sorted by album artist.

it does display album artist as by album artist but it does not sort
by it.

i am in view artwork, artist, year, album mode.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

MrSinatra;284866 Wrote: 
 my SC7 does not, and has never, sorted by album artist.

I beg to differ.

 
 i am in view artwork, artist, year, album mode.

I don't know what view artwork means in the context of sc7...

I the top of my screen on the Default style says:
Home  Albums

I clicked W

and I see:


Code:


  Magic Bus: The Who on Tour (1968) by The Who
  Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy (1971) by The Who
  Thirty Years of Maximum R  B (1994) by The Who
  Who Are You (1978) by The Who
  The Who by Numbers (1975) by The Who
  



My sort order is: Artist, Album

As I said earlier, The Who is album artist on that.

Also note that in this view, I do not see it listed under The High
Numbers.  (my H's skip from Jimi Hendrix to Billie Holliday, no 'HI's
at all, oddly enough.)


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread bullgod

MrSinatra;284855 Wrote: 
 let me clarify that a bit for you...
 
 album artist and band are both tpe2 tags.  so essentially the same.
 
 when SC7 says list by band thats the same as saying list by album
 artist, and all it means is it DISPLAYS that tag as by album artist
 it does not mean to suggest it SORTS by that tag.
 
 however, i agree with you, SC7 should absolutely have the option sort
 by the tpe2 tag, and consider soundtracks and so on as various
 artists.
 
 this is something i have been trying to figure out...  when the wiki is
 back, i want everyone to help me figure out the logic sc7 uses to do
 sorting based on files, folders, tags, etc...
 
 and i think SC7 should be smart enough to get it right wihout
 compilation tags, which imo, are an itunes thing and not really
 necessary to create a working system.


OK good, I started another thread to the List by Album Artist
(probably while you were replying here) maybe the discussion can take
place there.

But the Compilation question is a different issue. 
For one thing there are two types of complication: 
Greatest hits (collection of a single artist's work) type and 
Soundtrack/Everyone sings X (multiple artists/common theme) type. 

iTunes uses same flag for both. When IMO it only makes sense for the
second type. 
So you can consider this a special case where 
if compilation = true then Album Artist = Various Artists (or
whatever string one specifies). 

Then the Compilation issue goes away, doesn't it?

But it still leave the sorting issue which is much more important, as
there is currently on way of squaring iTunes sorting with SC sorting by
Artist. 
I would guess that there  number of true compilations is  1%, whereas
the number of albums with heterogeneous Artists tags, that SC currently
falsely lists as compilations, approaches 30~40%.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread slimkid

I believe that albums are sorted by the highest sorting artist - it may
be the album artist or it might be not. I definitely see albums listed
by albumartist at wrong spots sort wise. In your case, Snarly, artist
and albumartist are effectively the same.

K


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

SNARLY:

first from the home opening SC7 page, i click:

albums (not artists)

when i do so, i see my music in artist, year, album sorting, with the
artwork (displayed at 140 pixels, which lets me see 3 albums per row).

most are where they should be, however, for any album that has any more
than one artist listed on any track for the same album, (like the
sinatra example above) it gets sorted as a VA album, EVEN IF album
artist is Frank sinatra for ALL tags for that album.

it has ALWAYS been this way, as far as i can tell.

also note that SC7 allows you to display but not sort by album artist. 
the reason you only see the who displayed is b/c u set SC7 to do so,
you told it list albums by band but that only means FOR DISPLAY not
for sorting.

as to why yours sort properly, maybe its b/c album artist comes first
in your tags, or maybe its b/c they both start with the who

take the who out of your artist tag and just leave the high numbers
and i expect you'd get a different result.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

slimkid;284872 Wrote: 
 I believe that albums are sorted by the highest sorting artist - it may
 be the album artist or it might be not. I definitely see albums listed
 by albumartist at wrong spots sort wise. In your case, Snarly, artist
 and albumartist are effectively the same.
 

Hrrm, perhaps.  It should definitely behave as it is seeming to behave
for me: that is the whole point of setting albumartist, to train the
software to sort it there when sorting by album...  Not sure what other
use the tag would even have.

I am not sure why you say they are effectively the same, though:


Code:


  [gimli:~/mp3/The Who/Thirty Years of Maximum RB] 3:40:14pm 171 % id3v2 -l 
*mp3 | egrep '^TPE1 .* High' | wc -l
  4
  [gimli:~/mp3/The Who/Thirty Years of Maximum RB] 3:40:20pm 172 % id3v2 -l 
*mp3 | egrep '^TPE1 .* Who' | wc -l
  91
  



Ie, 4/95 tracks are credited to The High Numbers, not The Who.

So why is this showing up under The Who, where I would expect it to be?
(Since albumartist is The Who.  That should be where to sort it.)

As for MrSinatra...
 
 take the who out of your artist tag and just leave the high numbers
 and i expect you'd get a different result.
 

The Who is not in the TPE1 on 4 of those tracks.


Code:


  TIT2 (Title/songname/content description): I'm the Face
  TPE1 (Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)): The High Numbers
  TRCK (Track number/Position in set): 2/29
  TDEN ():  frame
  XSOP ():  frame
  TCMP ():  frame
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicIP PUID): 
5c44d7dd-9235-3242-b7db-85737ad760e8
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Artist Id): 
02c518bb-1651-4610-b9cd-4a85c435b0e8
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Album Id): 
391e462e-e8f0-4141-8add-11fdfcd973ee
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Album Type): compilation
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Album Status): official
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Album Artist Id): 
9fdaa16b-a6c4-4831-b87c-bc9ca8ce7eaa
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Album Artist): The Who
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Album Artist Sortname): 
Who, The
  UFID (Unique file identifier): http://musicbrainz.org, 36 bytes
  XDOR ():  frame
  TORY (Original release year): 1994
  TYER (Year): 1994
  TXXX (User defined text information): (MusicBrainz Non-Album): 0
  COMM (Comments): (ID3v1 Comment)[XXX]: freedbID : BC11C51D
  TPOS (Part of a set): 1/4
  TALB (Album/Movie/Show title): Thirty Years of Maximum R  B
  



If you mean remove The Who from the Album Artist, um, well, no, that
would be silly: the whole point is the interpretation of Album Artist,
so setting it to something else would be silly.

(And yes, SC does interpret the MB Album Artist - the album artist
field.)

Perhaps that is an indicator of the difference we see... my ALBUMARTIST
is 'native' (ie, SC treats it as an exact synonym for ALBUMARTIST) but
yours is from BAND/TPE2 and subject to the vagaries of that Interpret
BAND/TPE2 as album artist checkbox?


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

snarlydwarf;284880 Wrote: 
 
 
 Perhaps that is an indicator of the difference we see... my ALBUMARTIST
 is 'native' (ie, SC treats it as an exact synonym for ALBUMARTIST) but
 yours is from BAND/TPE2 and subject to the vagaries of that Interpret
 BAND/TPE2 as album artist checkbox?

In fact, a quick check appears to demonstrate that is the difference.

I deleted the album artist tags from I'm Your Fan a tribute to
Leonard Cohen and set TPE2 to Cohen.  The album sorted into god knows
where.

I then did: eyeD3 --set-user-text=ALBUMARTIST:Leonard Cohen *mp3

Setting, specifically, the ALBUMARTIST tag to be Cohen, and it is back
to sorting nicely.

So there you have your bug: TPE2/BAND does not act -exactly- like
ALBUMARTIST does.  ALBUMARTIST itself (or variants, like the MB tag)
seems to work fine.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

SNARLY:

you said this is what your tags say:


Code:


  Album:  Thirty Years of Maximum R  B
  Album Artist: The Who
  Artist: The Who, The High Numbers
  Year: 1994
  Duration: 129:58 
  



the who is therefore in your artist tag, no?

regardless, i am not sure what or how your setup is done or defined,
all i can tell you is i am using a very generic setup, (EAC, LAME, and
Winamp) to do my tags, (and i have winamp set to NOT guess, so i see
what is actually in the tags) and SC7 gets it wrong.

SC7 does NOT, repeat, NOT sort by my album artist tags.

it does DISPLAY the tag, b/c i told it to by telling it list albums by
band but it does NOT sort them that way.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

i should also add that album artist albumartist and band are all
TPE2 tags and should all act the same as far as SC7 is concerned.  (as
to whether they actually do in practice, i can't say)

as far as i can tell, my tags are of the album artist or
albumartist variety.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

MrSinatra;284884 Wrote: 
 
 the who is therefore in your artist tag, no?

Um, no

That is from the -album- and The Who is listed as the artist on 91
tracks.  They are -exclusively- listed on those tracks.   On the other
4 tracks, The High Numbers are listed.  The Who is not.

Removing The Who from 91 tracks would be dumb: they performed them. 
And as I said, they are not on the other 4, so they can't be removed.

So, yes, the album will show both artists.  It would be broken if it
dropped either of the artists from the -album- display.

 
 regardless, i am not sure what or how your setup is done or defined,
 all i can tell you is i am using a very generic setup, (EAC, LAME, and
 Winamp) to do my tags, (and i have winamp set to NOT guess, so i see
 what is actually in the tags) and SC7 gets it wrong.
 
 SC7 does NOT, repeat, NOT sort by my album artist tags.

Do you -have- ALBUMARTIST tags?  Or are you talking about TPE2?

 
 it does DISPLAY the tag, b/c i told it to by telling it list albums by
 band but it does NOT sort them that way.

And mine does.

See my prior post.

Many taggers allow you to set user text frames which are basically
free-form tags.  (Musicbrainz uses these to insert its own identifiers,
many encoders use it to insert their own identity... it is very common
and any decent tagger should support it... I dunno about winamp's
tagging abilities, but mp3tag I know supports user text frames.)

that said, I would buy into a bug report that TPE2 is not being
treated exactly as ALBUMARTIST is.  I am not sure on what use
displaying, but not sorting on that field would be.  That would seem
inconsistent.

But I still say sorting by ALBUMARTIST appears to be working exactly
right for me.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread MrSinatra

it may be working for you b/c SC7 may know or understand how to deal
with your MB tags better than a much more generic setup, ie. mine.

is there a program that will show me in non-nonsense style exactly what
is in my tags?  i will then post it.  (it may be a while, as i am
supposed to be out ther door)


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

MrSinatra;284886 Wrote: 
 i should also add that album artist albumartist and band are all
 TPE2 tags and should all act the same as far as SC7 is concerned.  (as
 to whether they actually do in practice, i can't say)
 
 as far as i can tell, my tags are of the album artist or
 albumartist variety.

They are NOT the same.

Perhaps your tagger does not support ALBUMARTIST.  Mine do (Picard,
eyeD3, id3v2, mp3tag).

This is the point of confusion and why you see differing results:

You are setting TPE2 and expect it to behave like ALBUMARTIST, which it
does not do.  (Again, I would agree that is a bug: I don't see any
reason why it would not behave as ALBUMARTIST, but I may be missing
something..)

I am setting ALBUMARTIST, and it behaves correctly.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-28 Thread snarlydwarf

MrSinatra;284891 Wrote: 
 like i said, mine ARE album artist as far as i know.
 
 i was just saying that album artist and band are BOTH tpe2 tags, i
 wasn't saying my tags SAY tpe2.

???

You are confusing me.

Mine are NOT TPE2.

Go back and see the tag on that High Numbers track.

Note that the ALBUMARTIST is set, not via TPE2, but a TXXX (user
defined text frame) field.  The contents of that field are the label
and data, the label being 'Musicbrainz Album Artist' and the data being
The Who).

This is handled by SC exactly the same as TXXX: ALBUMARTIST=The Who.

Or the same as an Ogg comment of ´ALBUMARTIST=The Who'

It is -not- handled the same way as a TPE2 tag.

Again, I believe that TPE2 probably should (if you have checked the
checkbox) be treated the same as ALBUMARTIST, and that would give you
the results that you want.

But please do not confuse the matter by claiming that TPE2 is
ALBUMARTIST.  ALBUMARTIST has a specific value in SC and it is NOT
TPE2.  You may -want- it to be that, and again, I would agree that
would probably be a good change... but right now it is NOT the same.

This is why you and I see different behavior: I am using ALBUMARTIST,
and you are using TPE2.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

I have a folder structure.

artist/album/01 Track.wma  A single Folder.jpg file for each album.

I have Aerosmith's and ZZ Top's greatest hits.

When I go to Aerosmith and look at the albums, I see Greatest Hits with
the proper Aerosmith cover art but I see ZZ Top as the artist below the
album.  The songs in the album are correct and are the Aerosmith
songs.


???


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread MrSinatra

thats interesting.

so in album art view, u see the aerosmith album (with other albums
before and after it) but it says by ZZtop

?

yes?

i'm assuming you have told SC to List albums by band which is the
TPE2 tag aka the albumartist tag.

if so, then it means one of two things:

your aerosmith tags say zz top is the tpe2 field, which i doubt, or the
more likely possibility:

zz top has zz top in the tpe2 tag field, and because the name of the
album is exactly the same, SC7 has assigned that value to all albums
with that name.

try this experiment:

change the tags for the aerosmith tracks to say greatest hits
(aerosmith) and see what happens.  u might also try changing the album
dir/folder name to that as well, but i don't think u have to.

i am very interested to hear your results.  could be a bug is needed to
be filed.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread MrSinatra

so will u try the experiment?


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

MrSinatra;284528 Wrote: 
 thats interesting.
 
 so in album art view, u see the aerosmith album (with other albums
 before and after it) but it says by ZZtop
 
 ?
 
 yes?
 
 

Yes that is correct.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

They both have the appropriate names in Album Artist tag in all the
files.  I just double checked that.

When you say list albums by band, do you mean the check box
Band/Orchestra on the Library tab?  If so then no I didn't have that
on.

I'm just rebuilding now, I have 25000 songs so it takes a bit.


What's weird is that Bob Seager's greatest hits is fine.  I wonder if
it's first artist A and last artist Z related.  Though that would be a
wild bug.


As for your experiment I'll try it shortly if it's still messed up
after this rebuild.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread MrSinatra

how do you check your tags?  in winamp you have to set it to not guess
when it reads tags.

also, album artist and band are both tpe2 tags.

and what i was asking about is under where you put the checkmark.


Composer, Band and Orchestra in ArtistsSong information about
composers, bands and orchestras can be included in the artists list for
browsing and search.
Composer
Conductor
Band/Orchestra  

Compilations

You can choose to have compilation albums appear together under
Various Artists or have them appear under each artist in the
compilation. 

List compilation albums under each artist
Group compilation albums together  

Albums that contain songs that are tagged with a band may be listed
under that band name or with the other artists for that album. The band
tag is also known as TPE2 and may appear as the album artist in some
software.

List albums by all artists for that album
*List albums by band*


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread MrSinatra

so do you list albums by band?  again, its an option under where the
checkmark goes.

i have all 3 checkmarks UNchecked, but i still list by band.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

MrSinatra;284540 Wrote: 
 how do you check your tags?  in winamp you have to set it to not guess
 when it reads tags.
 
 

I'm using DBPowerAmp when looking at and changing tags.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

MrSinatra;284542 Wrote: 
 so do you list albums by band?  again, its an option under where the
 checkmark goes.
 
 i have all 3 checkmarks UNchecked, but i still list by band.

Yes that is exactly what I had.

3 checks were unchecked.
List albums by band was on.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

I'm wondering if I should update the Band tag with what's in the Album
Artist tag?


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread MrSinatra

as far as i know, both band and album artist tags are tpe2 tags and
essentially treated the same by most programs.

u have both in your tags?  were they both filled out?

i'm trying to guess at why SC7 is getting it wrong, but its hard to do
without knowing your exact circumstances.

btw, i have both those CDs too, but mine don't do what yours do.  i
would guess its b/c i put the band name (band name) in parenthesis
after the album name for common names to albums like greatest hits.

but that is only a workaround, it doesn't explain what is wrong with
either SC7 or your tags, but clearly something is amiss.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

I'm thinking it may be Disc of Disc related.  DBPoweramp populates
those tags.  Windows Media Player doesn't.  Windows Media players
created Greatest Hits stuff is fine.

I've deleted those tags from Aerosmith and I'm just recreating my
library, I'll let you know what I find out...


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread Jeff Flowerday

Confirmed Disc 1/1 tag on these albums is causing the problem.  I
removed the tag and all is well.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-27 Thread MrSinatra

then that suggests a bug should be filed for SC7 if the tag was being
used properly.

i still wonder what would have happened had u left it as is and renamed
the album name tags.

i don't understand however, why that tag would connect those two
albums.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-26 Thread slimpy

TomS;283668 Wrote: 
 Okay, removing the DISCNUMBER=1/1 comment from the flac files solved
 that, except for one pesky cd which insists on going into the VA
 category despite the fact that there is no compilation flag or
 discnumber. I'll figure that out.
 
 (Edit: I see that I have to force COMPILATION=0 [as opposed to no
 COMPILATION info at all] on some albums with guest performers)
Keep in mind that SC treats albums as a compilation if it finds more
than one artist.
One solution is to tag the files with COMPILATION=0 (as you did). If
I'm correct this will however lead to the album being listed as album
by artist A, artist B and the album will be listed under both
artists.
I usually don't list guest performers in the artist field but append
them to the track title, eg. (feat. artist A)
Guest artists don't appear in the artist list this way but they can
still be found by a quick search.
I don't want albums to be listed under an artist if that artist only
appears as a guest performer on one or two songs on the album.

YMMV, of course.

-s.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread snarlydwarf

Did you put them in the same directory?  or are the different albums in
different directories?

(Hint: if they are in the same directory, how will SC know they are
different albums?  How does it not know that you have some big VA
album?)

Also, since you copied this from Windows, are your permissions right?


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread TomS

all in their own directory, structure is:

artist/album/tracknum-trackname

so

/music/Tom Jones/Greatest Hits/01-trackname.flac

and

/music/Janis Joplin/Greatest Hits/01-a diff trackname.flac


Permissions are wide open on this mounted USB drive (777 all the way -
I know that isn't perfect maybe but it works for now).

I am thinking of trashing my /var/lib/squeezecenter/cache to make sure
I'm starting clean...is that worth doing?

Tom


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread slimpy

Remove the DISCNUMBER from the flac comments.
This only works for single-disc albums. 
If you have multi-disc albums you might want to append the artist name
to the album title.
Squeezecenter groups albums with the same name together if a DISCNUMBER
tag is set (for multi-disc albums which can reside in one directory per
disc).
Can you check if the missing albums appear in Artists - Various
artists?

-s.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread TomS

I'm sure many of these do indeed have a DISCNUMBER comment, which I will
remove (since they are all single disc). 

I can check the Various Artists when I get home tonight but from memory
I don't think they were in there (but perhaps they were all grouped into
one which I missed).

I will correct tags and rescan (tonight).

Thanks much,

Tom


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread Diranged

TomS;283244 Wrote: 
 I am running:
 
 SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 17793 - Debian - EN - iso-8859-1
 Server IP address: 192.168.5.3
 Perl Version: 5.8.8 i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
 MySQL Version: 5.0.45-Debian_1ubuntu3.3
 
 
 
 I have 7 artists who have albums titled Greatest Hits.  For any
 artist who (in my collection) only has a Greatest Hits album, they
 are nowhere to be found in the Artists list (on SC or SS or the SB3). 
 If I go to Albums, only 2 of the seven are listed, and if I go to a
 specific artist who has other albums besides Greatest Hits, I get the
 wrong thumbnail cover.jpg in SC (although once I select it, it does show
 the right one).
 
 I have checked the tagging and all is correct there (see output from
 metaflac at bottom). 
 
 Another weird thing - I have a duplicate (backup) disk on a windows box
 and it works fine (maybe not a final sc 70 on windows, can't remember:
 SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 17491 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252)
 
 Permissions on linux are totally open for the music folder and I can
 browse to it and play fine via Music Folder (but they don't get added
 to the library ).
 
 Here's sample output from metaflac --list, which shows an artist (and
 album artist) of Tom Jones, but nowhere can I see Tom Jones in my
 collection unless I browse via Music Folder.  Advanced Search fails as
 well.
 
 
 METADATA block #1
 type: 4 (VORBIS_COMMENT)
 is last: false
 length: 416
 vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.2.0 20070715
 comments: 15
 comment[0]: Album=Greatest Hits
 comment[1]: AccurateRipResult=AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 4) 
 [0647B2C3]
 comment[2]: AccurateRipDiscID=023-003b22a9-03eca027-40121217-15
 comment[3]: Title=Till
 comment[4]: Artist=Tom Jones
 comment[5]: Album Artist=Tom Jones
 comment[6]: Genre=Rock
 comment[7]: Date=2003
 comment[8]: Composer=Charles Danvers
 comment[9]: Composer=Carl Sigman
 comment[10]: DISCNUMBER=1/1
 comment[11]: UPC=042288286325
 comment[12]: Style=Pop
 comment[13]: Style=Vocal Pop
 comment[14]: TRACKNUMBER=15
 -
 
 Any thoughts?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Tom S.

I've actually got two or three albums labeled 'Greatest Hits', and I
run into a similar issue in that they are mixed up when I go to look at
the album. I don't have the album art issue, though, because all of my
album art is embedded in the actual music files...


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread Phil Leigh

There used to be an option in 6.x to exclude common album titles like
Greatest Hits, Best of ... not sure where this went in 7.x


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You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber  Chord cables

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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread slimpy

Phil Leigh;283567 Wrote: 
 There used to be an option in 6.x to exclude common album titles like
 Greatest Hits, Best of ... not sure where this went in 7.x
It's long gone. It disappeared when compilation and multi-disc handling
was redone. I think it was in 6.5

-s.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread Phil Leigh

slimpy;283582 Wrote: 
 It's long gone. It disappeared when compilation and multi-disc handling
 was redone. I think it was in 6.5
 
 -s.

Ah...I could never get 6.5 to work...


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You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber  Chord cables

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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread TomS

Okay, removing the DISCNUMBER=1/1 comment from the flac files solved
that, except for one pesky cd which insists on going into the VA
category despite the fact that there is no compilation flag or
discnumber. I'll figure that out.

But this brings me to my next question- I wonder what other duplicate
names I have in my collection.

Does anyone have any unix shell script or even windows something that
will show me duplicate album names based on flac tags?  I'd even take
duplicate folder/directory names as for the most part they are
equivalent.

Thanks,

Tom


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-25 Thread MrSinatra

i'm on windows...  and i have a lot of issues i want to post about
eventually regarding how SC handles tags, but what i did was use winamp
to handle tagging, and its worked great (in so far as what it does).

so, ones to look for:

greatest hits
best of
millenium collection
definitive collection
encore collection

typically what i do is add band name to it, (ie. the tag) so like
this:

greatest hits (heart)

or something like that.  you also want to look at the artist and
albumartist or band tags.

btw, with winamp, you can sort columns very quickly, so you could have
albums sorted by track #s in album, and sort the biggest to the top and
make sure many albums aren't grouped together just b/c they share the
same album name.


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Using:
Squeezebox2 (primary) / SBR (secondary) / Jive - w/SC 7.0.1beta - Win
XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - D-Link DIR-655

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[slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-24 Thread TomS

I am running:

SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 17793 - Debian - EN - iso-8859-1
Server IP address: 192.168.5.3
Perl Version: 5.8.8 i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
MySQL Version: 5.0.45-Debian_1ubuntu3.3



I have 7 artists who have albums titled Greatest Hits.  For any
artist who (in my collection) only has a Greatest Hits album, they
are nowhere to be found in the Artists list (on SC or SS or the SB3). 
If I go to Albums, only 2 of the seven are listed, and if I go to a
specific artist who has other albums besides Greatest Hits, I get the
wrong thumbnail cover.jpg in SC (although once I select it, it does show
the right one).

I have checked the tagging and all is correct there (see output from
metaflac at bottom). 

Another weird thing - I have a duplicate (backup) disk on a windows box
and it works fine (maybe not a final sc 70 on windows, can't remember:
SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 17491 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252)

Permissions on linux are totally open for the music folder and I can
browse to it and play fine via Music Folder (but they don't get added
to the library ).

Here's sample output from metaflac --list, which shows an artist (and
album artist) of Tom Jones, but nowhere can I see Tom Jones in my
collection unless I browse via Music Folder.  Advanced Search fails as
well.


METADATA block #1
type: 4 (VORBIS_COMMENT)
is last: false
length: 416
vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.2.0 20070715
comments: 15
comment[0]: Album=Greatest Hits
comment[1]: AccurateRipResult=AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 4) 
[0647B2C3]
comment[2]: AccurateRipDiscID=023-003b22a9-03eca027-40121217-15
comment[3]: Title=Till
comment[4]: Artist=Tom Jones
comment[5]: Album Artist=Tom Jones
comment[6]: Genre=Rock
comment[7]: Date=2003
comment[8]: Composer=Charles Danvers
comment[9]: Composer=Carl Sigman
comment[10]: DISCNUMBER=1/1
comment[11]: UPC=042288286325
comment[12]: Style=Pop
comment[13]: Style=Vocal Pop
comment[14]: TRACKNUMBER=15
-

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom S.


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Re: [slim] Greatest Hits problem?

2008-03-24 Thread TomS

Okay, I decided to do a full rescan.  I happened to browse to this
artist (Tom Jones) after it was scanned but before the various artists
merge.  No problem there until after the various artists merge and now
we're back to the problem again.

Any thoughts?  These albums are not tagged as compilations..

Tom


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[slim] Greatest Hits

2006-10-09 Thread Neil Cameron
I thought this had been solved; but in 6.5.1 I now have found that I have 
four different Albums merged under the name name, 'Greatest Hits' - with no 
separate listing of the Artists under Artists either.  Any ideas how to 
separate them?

Neil 



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[slim] Greatest Hits grouping question

2006-02-03 Thread joncourage

My Greatest Hits albums are getting grouped under Various Artists,
even tho the artist tag is the same for each of the albums (eg Chicago,
Aerosmith, etc).

I tried changing the setting for Common Album Titles and re-scanning,
but the artist (eg Chicago) still doesn't show up under Browse/Artists,
only under Various Artists.

Anyone offer some help on what I may be doing wrong?

Thanx!


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