[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
SynapseAttack Wrote: > You mean the Source that you can find simply by searching Sonos' FAQs > for GPL? The first and only thing that shows up is: > http://tinyurl.com/p2wte > or you can go to: > http://www.sonos.com/support/downloads/GPL/ > > I like SqeezeBoxes as much as the next guy, but lets get the facts > right before opening our mouth and saying "Sonos is Evil" There's a difference (a BIG difference) between being "friendly to the open source community" and "meeting your legal obligations if you use some open source products in your code". Slim Devices is, without a doubt, open source friendly. The vast majority of their code (everything except firmware) is 100% available. You can view the source, change the source, or do anything else you need to do. From an open source perspective, it doesn't get any better than this. Sonos, on the other hand, uses a few open source products in their code (and may make a few changes). According to the license terms of such products, such code must be available to those who request it. This is NOT "friendly to the open source community", this is simply meeting your legal obligations due to the license terms of said products. This is not to say that "Sonos is Evil". But they certainly aren't open source either - I can't download the vast majority of their source code, and I can't change their source code. -- Jeff Jeff's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Mark Lanctot Wrote: > Wow, this from the champion of closed-source. So, when are we going to > see Sonos' source code, hmm? You mean the Source that you can find simply by searching Sonos' FAQs for GPL? The first and only thing that shows up is: http://tinyurl.com/p2wte or you can go to: http://www.sonos.com/support/downloads/GPL/ I like SqeezeBoxes as much as the next guy, but lets get the facts right before opening our mouth and saying "Sonos is Evil" -- SynapseAttack SynapseAttack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
make an Ipod wireless, then you have a remote with a screen and a build in harddrive. What else do you need.. smile... tamanaco Wrote: > Y...I've been looking around for a good Universal remote, but most > reasonable remotes lack WiFi. Before I bought the SB I had a long audio > cable running from my music server to my receiver. For a couple years I > used smashcasi RemoteAmp 2.0 in my PDA to remotely control WinAmp in my > server. The SB is a more elegant and convinient solution. Its remote is > not as powerful as the Sonos, but it's simple and useful. Even my wife > can use it. But... as you have pointed it still needs some work around > the edges. > > Maybe SlimDevices or somone else will be interested in making > accessories for the SB and selling them at a premium. Just like > Microsoft and other vendors sell "enhanced" accessories for the Xbox. > You can put me on the waiting list for an Slim Devices "optional" > GUI/WiFi/IR Universal remote to control the SB and other AV system > components. I'd gladly pay $300+ for it. -- SoundBoy Boy-oh-Boy-what a Sound SoundBoy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3085 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
bruce Wrote: > > My point was that, when you compare remotes (or anything else), you > should compare the basic systems provided by the manufacturers, not a > remote from another company and software from some developer somewhere. > Most consumers won't even find out that these things exist, let alone go > to the trouble to acquire and configure them. You make a very valid point. It requires a bit of technical knowledge in order to setup some of these gadgets. This is not the case for most AV components in the home. (TVs, VCRs, Receivers and the such). I know what you mean... heck, DVRs are more complex than any DAP and yet manufacturers have been able to build DVRs (software/hardware) that are more user friendly that any of my old VCRs, CDs or DVD players. This is progress... DAPs are a bit behind. DAPs tend to be more difficult to setup and operate than any of the legacy music players. I've been looking around for a good Universal remote, but most reasonable remotes lack WiFi. Before I bought the SB I had a long audio cable running from my music server to my receiver. For a couple years I used smashcasi RemoteAmp 2.0 in my PDA to remotely control WinAmp in my server. The SB is a more elegant and convinient solution. Its remote is not as powerful as the Sonos, but it's simple and useful. Even my wife can use it. But... as you have pointed it still needs some work around the edges. Maybe SlimDevices or somone else will be interested in making accessories for the SB and selling them at a premium. Just like Microsoft and other vendors sell "enhanced" accessories for the Xbox. You can put me on the waiting list for an Slim Devices "optional" GUI/WiFi/IR Universal remote to control the SB and other AV system components. I'd gladly pay $300+ for it. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Tamanaco, I agree completely that Sonos is priced too high for the mass market, and it may well be too complex as well. I also feel that complexity is a bigger drawback for SD than its remote. As a matter of fact, the remote was the main reason I went with SD instead of Roku. The Roku remote would frustrate the hell out of me. The SD remote is very functional. The Sonos remote -- at first glance anyway; I've never used it -- is functional and sexy. My point was that, when you compare remotes (or anything else), you should compare the basic systems provided by the manufacturers, not a remote from another company and software from some developer somewhere. Most consumers won't even find out that these things exist, let alone go to the trouble to acquire and configure them. -- bruce bruce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
bruce Wrote: > Sonos is attractive because of its remote. The vast majority of > consumers won't consider buying and setting up a separate remote, so > the comparison is between the remotes that ship with the products, and > Sonos wins that comparison hands down. Hopefully the folks at SD > realize this. > > You may prefer that SD remain a company for geeks (don't be insulted -- > I count myself in this category) rather than the mass market. But then > don't complain when mass-market newspapers fail to appreciate it. I agree that the Sonos is attractive because of its remote, but you're assuming that "most" consumers have $1,000+ to blow on this type of music player. I don't think the Sonos is at "mass market" level yet. The SlimBox is closer to "mass market" as it appeals to people's wallets and it basically provides the same functionality as the Sonos. Again, I agree that the Sonos is better dressed, but that does not mean that is going to go with me to the party. The SB might not be plug n' play solution, but neither are most DAP players or the Sonos for matter. Most DAPs, including the SB and Sonos, are still dependent on a PC or music repository on one way or another. The SlimBox is a "lite" and inexpensive player with an open software server (Slimserver) that supports many music formats and plug-ins. The Sonos is a bit heavier and expensive and it's close system. I think the the remote of the Sonos is the size of a SBv3. If Sonos does not provide you with the functionality, you don't get it. If Slim Devices doesn't provide you with the functionality you maybe be able to get it from 3rd party plug-in. You're not comparing apples to apples here. There is a $750 ($999-$249) gap between the players. That's a BIG gap. if I could get a Sonos for the price of a SlimBox, I'd be the first one to jump. Btw, what mass-market newspapers are you talking about? I read quasi positive articles for both the SB and Sonos in the NYTimes. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Sonos is attractive because of its remote. The vast majority of consumers won't consider buying and setting up a separate remote, so the comparison is between the remotes that ship with the products, and Sonos wins that comparison hands down. Hopefully the folks at SD realize this. You may prefer that SD remain a company for geeks (don't be insulted -- I count myself in this category) rather than the mass market. But then don't complain when mass-market newspapers fail to appreciate it. -- bruce bruce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
On 5/12/06, Michael Herger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And that's where MS seems to be a much stronger player than Palm :-/.though having just switched to a WM2005 device as a Palm3/3e/V/T/T3 user usability and responsiveness of the latest PPC devices is still way behind my older palms. Whilst the quality of synch with Outlook, stability of web and email and the built in wifi etc are a cut above Palm basic usability - getting to and viewing an appointment, contact (or heaven forbid a note or task) is so much more difficult and, amazingly, slower. God only knows how microsoft make search take so long. My Tungsten T could search all fields in 800 contacts in seconds. My HTC Prophet PPC takes over a minute! ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
You're right, unless the Ewesoft folks builds a VM for the Palm platform; you're out luck. http://www.ewesoft.com/ I don't know what's is preventing them from building a VM for PalmOS, I think there's a rather simple answer: it's not "them", but "him". AFAIK it's a one man show. The market for PalmOS PDAs and to a lesser degree for PocketPC PDAs has slowed down quite a bit. This due to the convergence of PDA a DAP functions into cell phones (Smartphones). And that's where MS seems to be a much stronger player than Palm :-/. -- Michael --- Help translate SlimServer by using the StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/) ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Kyle Wrote: > Unfortunately, SlimRemote won't work on my Palm-based Sony CLIE. You're right, unless the Ewesoft folks builds a VM for the Palm platform; you're out luck. http://www.ewesoft.com/ I don't know what's is preventing them from building a VM for PalmOS, but they have certainly built VMs for lesser known platforms. I don't know if this will work, but maybe you can try running the .jar of SlimRemote using a Java emulator for PalmOS. The market for PalmOS PDAs and to a lesser degree for PocketPC PDAs has slowed down quite a bit. This due to the convergence of PDA a DAP functions into cell phones (Smartphones). Sony stopped bringing the Clie to the US a long time ago. Lately, Palm has been concentrating mostly on the Treo. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
joncourage Wrote: > -My laptop is my remote.- A laptop makes a fine remote, but not very practical at a party or out on the deck with a drink in the other hand. Nokia770 and SlimRemote show a lot of promise. Unfortunately, SlimRemote won't work on my Palm-based Sony CLIE. -- Kyle Kyle's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2541 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Michael Herger is working on an application called SlimRemote (now on release 0.8) which gives one "most" of the functionality of the Sono's remote. (Album art, playlist, song selection etc) http://www.herger.net/slim/detail.php?nr=912 It works on windows and on any platform that supports the Ewe runtime or java. I have an old PDA with WiFi and IR which I'm plannig to use as my all around remote control for my SB and AV System. There several PDA applications such as Nevo for the iPaq and Novii which emulate an IR Universal Remote on a PDA. For those with PDAs with WiFi, but with weak or no IR ports there also 3rd party IR accessories for PDAs and IR signal boosters for your AV system. So, if you can get your hands on cheap WiFi/IR PDA you can control your SB and AV System a la Sonos. I know that is easier said than done, but then again if you have a Squeezebox you probably have a bit of "tech" in you. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
I think the Sonos is pitched at a different market right now. The extreme price differentials reflect the fact that the Sonos is pretty much everything you need in one box. I see Squeezebox as more best of breed and customisable right now. I think a high end Slim setup of a backend Unix SlimServer, multiple Squeezeboxes and and 770s controlling them as a better solution than Sonos, and still far cheaper, but you have to put the work into setting it up and buying the separate parts. I think SlimDevices, or a VAR, could enter Sonos' market by simply offering plug and go appliances which implement the above. -- Smiley Dan Smiley Dan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5456 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
The guy's developing the Nokia770 skin could easily add a virtual on-screen scroll wheel to the skin to mimic the behavior of a physical one. The 770 does have a touch screen, doesn't it? Otherwise a PDA could be used. The stylus could be used to grab a virtual "nub" on an on-screen wheel to rotate it. Quick before Apple patent it. TheRegister.co.uk has a recent article about a linux powered game unit, the GX2, which has a similar form factor to the PSP and looks like it could make a handy remote. -- oreillymj oreillymj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=699 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Kyle Wrote: > An optional remote with LCD similar to an Ipod is what I'm talking > about. Something that would allow you to easily scroll your entire > collection and make choices without having to be in front of your SB or > at your computer. I doubt you would have to explain to many folks how > to use an Ipod-like remote, and it would be a lot faster than scrolling > on the SB. I'd say SB has it all over Sonos in this regard as well. -My laptop is my remote.- As could be a PSP, or handheld, etc etc etc. With Sonos, you get the Sonos remote. That's it. I'll take my laptop, cause it does everything I need to control music, and so much more -- joncourage SlimServer Version: 6.5b1 - 6939 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252 Player Firmware Version: 41 SB3 > Audio Note DAC 3.1x Sig > Levinson 383 integrated > Amphion Argons joncourage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
kdf Wrote: > Having an optional SD remote, perhaps ... An optional remote with LCD similar to an Ipod is what I'm talking about. Something that would allow you to easily scroll your entire collection and make choices without having to be in front of your SB or at your computer. I doubt you would have to explain to many folks how to use an Ipod-like remote, and it would be a lot faster than scrolling on the SB. -- Kyle Kyle's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2541 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Let the guy have his opinions. I like the SqueezeBox for all the reasons that the rest of you do, but to expect a consensus on this sort of thing is like trying to herd cats. If anyone wants to fork out the money for the Sonos system, who am I to judge? I'll take the extra $1000 and buy a whole lot more CD's! -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
To be fair, the Guardian - particularly tech writer Jack Schofield - has at least directed people to the Squeezebox as a streaming solution for a while now. It's the first place that I heard of it. -- nathanroberts1 'My last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/nathanroberts1/) nathanroberts1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4164 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
Quoting Kyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: It's all in the full-function remote -- control from anywhere in the house. It's something Slim Devices really needs, IMHO. no, it very much doesnt. Third party remotes are available everywhere and you can pick and choose the right one for your needs. Having an optional SD remote, perhaps, but NO point in increasing the startup cost with a fancy remote that just gets tossed aside once the needed functions are copied to the remote of choice. I have a drawer full of "universal" remotes that I would have gladly done without to save teh added $50-100 on the cost of the cable box/dvd/tv/reciever. The SD remote is in fact that ONLY single use remote that I do still use. It's small, simple, and I don't have to explain to anyone how to use it. -kdf ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
> Sonos's touch of brilliance is to let you control your music from your > lap. It's all in the full-function remote -- control from anywhere in the house. It's something Slim Devices really needs, IMHO. -- Kyle Kyle's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2541 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Article in todays Guardian newspaper article championing Sonos
PeterFitzgerald Wrote: > I mean for starters his criticism of the Squeezebox is that you need a > PC always switched on. Isn't that also true of the Sonos??? Yeah, the Sonos needs to get its music from *somewhere*. Also there's a very interesting comment: > The system consists of a series of small white Linux-powered boxes Wow, this from the champion of closed-source. So, when are we going to see Sonos' source code, hmm? -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23805 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
