[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread oreillymj

I haven't bothered to read most of the bitchfest that the Logitech
announcement thread has become, and this threatens to become.

Slim != Logitech , so stop posting your mouse,keyboard, remote horror
stories here.

The question that was asked, was should you purchase now or hold off
following the Logitech acquisition.

The way I see it, nothing has happened in the last week that would
change my decision to purchase. If the SB3/Transporter fitted my needs
last week, then they still fit my needs this week and sound, as good,
if not better.
FW67 was posted after the announcement last week making further
improvements to a great product. I can only see it getting better.

The way to screw things up is to hold up sales. Then you'll have
started a self fulfilling prophecy.

So buy now, enjoy your music, and forget about who owns the company and
what might happen. It's pointless speculation.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread peejay

IMHO the Slim Devices logo/branding look much better than Logitech's. At
least half of the appeal of the Squeezebox for a lot of people is in its
visual aspects, again my opinion only.  Get one now before accepting the
risk that the next manufacturing run of cases has a different logo on
the front.


-- 
peejay

After Silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible
is music - Aldous Huxley.

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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread ModelCitizen

peejay;149264 Wrote: 
 Get one now before accepting the risk that the next manufacturing run of
 cases has a different logo on the front.
My sentiments entirely. I shall be well aggrieved if my Transporter
arrives with anything but a pure SlimDevices logo on it!  :-).
I did idly wonder about buying ten Transporters now just in case they
became classic collectors items in the future.

I do hope Slim fix the knob soon though. I can see that becoming a
little annoying quite quickly.


MC


-- 
ModelCitizen

Now what?

Squeezebox3 (linear PSU)  Benchmark Dac1  Naim NAC 82  Naim NAP 250
 Shahinian Arcs. Plus other irrelevant, superfluous and annoying black
boxes.
Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt

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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread cliveb

seanadams;149185 Wrote: 
 Clive, I've said this before but please don't take anything we say with
 respect to future features as a promise. This has nothing to do with
 whose company it is. There are many uncertainties involved in RD, and
 that is why we don't make such commitments. However, we do from time to
 time comment on things we're working on or looking into, as a way of
 inviting customer feedback.
OK, understood, and my apologies for using the word promise. It's
just that Slim Devices have a history of mentioning things that might
happen, and then they nearly always do. So when in a previous thread
you indicated that the vibrating knob issue was being looked at, I got
a very warm feeling that it almost certainly would be fixed.

Suppose I did buy a Transporter now, and then this issue *doesn't* get
fixed in a firmware update, would there be any safe way to simply
disable the knob altogether, perhaps by disconnecting it from the power
supply? Or it is so completely hard-wired into the main circuit board
that this isn't possible?


-- 
cliveb

Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed
mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters?

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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread fathom39

Pale Blue Ego;149244 Wrote: 
 One of the best-sounding systems that is modestly sized and priced is
 the Aego M from Acoustic Energy.  Get them for $200 at www.ccrane.com
 or www.audioadvisor.com

Just ignore any propaganda from ccrane.  For instance, on the Acoustic
Energy Wi-Fi Internet Radio page they state Most of these stations
broadcast at or near CD-quality, and many stations even broadcast at
192K which is better than CD quality and a huge step up from any
satellite radio.  Ha!


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread rtitmuss

cliveb;149295 Wrote: 
 Suppose I did buy a Transporter now, and then this issue *doesn't* get
 fixed in a firmware update, would there be any safe way to simply
 disable the knob altogether, perhaps by disconnecting it from the power
 supply? Or it is so completely hard-wired into the main circuit board
 that this isn't possible?

Well I've already fixed the knob problem in the latest firmware in the
6.5.1 beta release. And if it did still cause you a problem it would be
on my bug list to fix again for a later release. In the worst case it is
easy to unplug the knob.

Richard


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread cliveb

rtitmuss;149299 Wrote: 
 Well I've already fixed the knob problem in the latest firmware in the
 6.5.1 beta release. And if it did still cause you a problem it would be
 on my bug list to fix again for a later release. In the worst case it is
 easy to unplug the knob.
Thanks Richard, that's great news.

Incidentally: I knew that you are SoftSqueeze's author, but I never
realised that you're also (one of) the developer(s) of the
SB/Transporter firmware. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?


-- 
cliveb

Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed
mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters?

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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread Mark Lanctot

ModelCitizen;149273 Wrote: 
 I do hope Slim fix the knob soon though. I can see that becoming a
 little annoying quite quickly.

With one in actual use (with the original firmware) it's no big
deal.

If you're playing music you don't hear it.

If you're not playing music, you'll hear it about 30 seconds after the
knob has to reconfigure itself (from locked to hard stops to detents
with hard stops).  You'll also hear it 30 seconds after you turn it
off.

It sounds like a floppy drive seek noise, but not nearly as loud. 
Since you can only hear it when the music isn't on, it's really no big
deal.

It isn't like a vacuum cleaner or something.


-- 
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Re: [slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread Michael Herger

It sounds like a floppy drive seek noise, but not nearly as loud.


I've read about this many times, but have never heard it in two weeks.


Since you can only hear it when the music isn't on, it's really no big
deal.


Ah, that's it! Can't stop listening to my T's sound :-)

--

Michael

-
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread Mark Lanctot

Michael Herger;149367 Wrote: 
  Since you can only hear it when the music isn't on, it's really no
 big
  deal.[/color]
 
 Ah, that's it! Can't stop listening to my T's sound :-)

:-)  Take a second or two before you start playing to move around the
menus with the knob.  It's very cool - go to volume and you have a
smooth range with hard stops at each end.  Go back to the main menu and
you have hard stops at the beginning and end of the menu with detents on
each item.  Go to an area with only one item in the list and the knob is
locked.

After the knob reconfigures itself in that way, you'll hear the sound
about 30 seconds after you leave it.  You'll also hear the sound after
you turn it off.

It's a degaussing cycle for the magnetic brake apparently.

This is with the original firmware, 18.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread bergek

I have been planning to purchase a Transporter and a few powered Genelec
speakers for a few days but the news of Logitech has temporarily halted
my decision process. Just like many others, I too, own quite a few
Logitech products and I am perfectly happy with them. But in my eyes
they play in a different league imagewise.

In addition to upgrading my home system, I am trying to convince my
brother in law who is a long term audiophile that there are new ways of
producing truly fantastic sound. First impressions are important and if
that first thought in his mind is a keyboard and mouse manufacturer
(which is how Logitech is perceived here) I fear that the battle is
half lost from the beginning. 

I seriously hope that the Logitech will NOT rebrand the Transporter
into a standard Logitech product. For the time being my problem is that
the Transporter is out of stock at all distributors here in Sweden. I
don't want to place an order now and later receive a Logitech branded
device - even if they will of course produce the same sound. The risk
of getting such a device is currently stopping me from placing an
order.


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread bergek

bergek;149382 Wrote: 
 I have been planning to purchase a Transporter and a few powered Genelec
 speakers for a few days but the news of Logitech has temporarily halted
 my decision process. Just like many others, I too, own quite a few
 Logitech products and I am perfectly happy with them. But in my eyes
 they play in a different league imagewise.
 
 In addition to upgrading my home system, I am trying to convince my
 brother in law who is a long term audiophile that there are new ways of
 producing truly fantastic sound. First impressions are important and if
 that first thought in his mind is a keyboard and mouse manufacturer
 (which is how Logitech is perceived here) I fear that the battle is
 half lost from the beginning. 
 
 I seriously hope that the Logitech will NOT rebrand the Transporter
 into a standard Logitech product. For the time being my problem is that
 the Transporter is out of stock at all distributors here in Sweden. I
 don't want to place an order now and later receive a Logitech branded
 device - even if they will of course produce the same sound. The risk
 of getting such a device is currently stopping me from placing an
 order.

Sorry, didn't realise until too late that the topic concerned the
Squeezebox and not the Transporter. My thoughts are the same, although
to a somewhat lesser extent.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-24 Thread benh

Well, for what it's worth, I'm a relatively new SB3 owner, going on
about 3 months.  Love it.  So much so that I'm in the process of
re-ripping my entire 800+ disc collection to ALAC and then the CDs go
into deep storage.

Based on my experiences with the SB3 (and having read all 30+ pages of
the Logitech Thread), I pulled the trigger on a Transporter today.  I
think it will be a nice addition to my system and I'm eagerly
anticipating its arrival, if not the impact to my wallet.  Eek.  I'm
looking around for things to Ebay now to offset the cost.

I've got mixed feelings about the Logitech acquisition.  I liked the
small company feel that I was getting from Slim Devices, and I like
supporting small companies, and that was part of my initial decision to
get an SB3.  But now that I have that SB3 (and soon a Transporter) I
guess I'm more interested in how well the products work.  I'd still
*prefer* the small company feel, but it's not a showstopper for me.

I see potential for both good and bad.  I'm hoping that the quality of
the hardware and the attention to detail remain, and that the
(presumably) increased resources that can be brought to bear will
benefit everyone.  I'm not concerned that Logitech bought Slim to
shelve them.  Slim has several strong products that give Logitech a big
leg up in the market and it'd be poor business to kill those products.

But I also figure that worst case, I end up with the hardware I have
now, and the software I have now, and both work well now.  It's not
like the product will just quit working if Logitech decides to shelve
further production/development.

The server software is open source and written in perl, so even absent
corporate support and development, the software can continue to be
developed and improved.  Even by me with my heinous perl skills.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you like what the hardware/software
can do right now, get it now.  If you're not sure it's a good fit for
you, maybe take advantage of the 30 day guarantee and give it a shot.

If you're concerned that Logitech will orphan the product or screw it
up in some way and you're concerned about long term support, maybe wait
for things to shake out.  But I'm not that concerned.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread jeffluckett

 
 What are people using for compact players with the Squeezebox?
 

I have heard of people using setups as inexpensive as a set of powered
set of PC speakers connected to the headphone jack on up to high-dollar
audiophile mini systems.

It all depends on how good you want your sound to be in the kitchen ...
keeping in mind that kitchens don't typically make the most ideal
listening environment with lots of hard surfaces, ambient noise, things
that rattle, etc...

Personally, I think a quality set of powered speakers would do you just
fine if you don't also need the ability to play CD's or other packaged
media or tune into over the air broadcasts.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread Jon

jacques;148930 Wrote: 
 What are people using for compact players with the Squeezebox?
I picked up a set of Klipsch ProMedia powered speakers (including a
subwoofer) for my bedroom ... they sound very good and plug right into
the headphone jack on the Squeezebox.  $119 on amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-ProMedia-Certified-Computer-3-Speaker/dp/B62VUO/sr=8-1/qid=1161606194/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1098072-7977563?ie=UTF8s=electronics


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread roamingstudio

I made the decision that I would buy now - and maybe again in the
future. I wanted another one which I could work with; modify etc safe
in the bank.

The future is bright - the future is orange. Sorry wrong brand - but
you cannot predict what will happen - probably even SD et al dont
rightly know. The transporter is a definite buy now, may not be able to
again. But I suspect SB's will be around in some form or another for a
long time yet; just not necessarily with the current level of loving
care and attention in the development and assembly. It could be even
more loving care and attention in which case I would buy another...

If Logitech step in and make lots of changes, if there is a cheaper SB3
v2 coming out, if they rebrand the boxes and hardware, I would be
suprised to see it hit the general market / distributors before end
november. Logitech may still try a hard sell for Christmas - but even
then there is probably not enough stock available for demand. I suspect
things will really change (if they are going to change) sometime in the
new year.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread cliveb

Kevin O. Lepard;148953 Wrote: 
 Will it make any difference? Any conjectures? Buy a Slim branded
 device
 or wait for a Logitech device?
 
 If it meets your needs now, buy now.  I own 3 SB2s and 1 SB3, and 
 would really love to buy a Transporter.  I would have no qualms about
 purchasing any of them.
The dilemma is more subtle than this.

I am *very* interested in buying a Transporter. The hardware as it
stands now seems to meet my needs. But I need to know that the firmware
update Sean promised (back when it was still his company), to add the
digital FX loop and fix the vibrating knob even though you've only
used the remote bug, is still going to happen. The danger of buying a
Transporter now is that Logitech might quickly decide it's not in their
product future and cease all development work - and hence no firmware
update.

So the answer seems clear: wait to buy a Transporter until I've seen
the firmware update in the field. But by that time, it's possible that
the Logitech bean-counters have forced some cost-reductions through and
the hardware design has been compromised. There again, it's also
possible that some changes to the Transporter might actually be an
improvement. (One cost reduction I'd be happy about would be the
removal of the knob altogether - it may be cool, but I can't see myself
using it).

So you see, I'm in a serious quandry, and suspect others may feel the
same way.


-- 
cliveb

Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed
mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters?

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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread Seineseeker

I would buy now. I am seriously thinking of buying a second SB or even a
third as well. The SB3 does everything I want it to, and the open source
software should mean whatever happens in the future we will always have
a healthy community behind it.


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread tmarino

I plan to buy soon, can't afford it right now but definitely want to get
a new Squeezebox soon. Funny I was thinking of selling my original Slimp
3 and original SB but now I may re-consider that for sentimental reasons
if nothing else.


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread seanadams

cliveb;149038 Wrote: 
  But I need to know that the firmware update Sean promised (back when it
 was still his company), to add the digital FX loop and fix the
 vibrating knob even though you've only used the remote bug, is still
 going to happen.

Clive, I've said this before but please don't take anything we say with
respect to future features as a promise. This has nothing to do with
whose company it is. There are many uncertainties involved in RD, and
that is why we don't make such commitments. However, we do from time to
time comment on things we're working on or looking into, as a way of
inviting customer feedback.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread Relayer35

roamingstudio;149034 Wrote: 
 I made the decision that I would buy now - and maybe again in the
 future. I wanted another one which I could work with; modify etc safe
 in the bank.
 
 The future is bright - the future is orange. Sorry wrong brand - but
 you cannot predict what will happen - probably even SD et al dont
 rightly know. The transporter is a definite buy now, may not be able to
 again. But I suspect SB's will be around in some form or another for a
 long time yet; just not necessarily with the current level of loving
 care and attention in the development and assembly. It could be even
 more loving care and attention in which case I would buy another...
 
 If Logitech step in and make lots of changes, if there is a cheaper SB3
 v2 coming out, if they rebrand the boxes and hardware, I would be
 suprised to see it hit the general market / distributors before end
 november. Logitech may still try a hard sell for Christmas - but even
 then there is probably not enough stock available for demand. I suspect
 things will really change (if they are going to change) sometime in the
 new year.

I think the Harmony 880 was the first Logitech created Harmony remote.
I had a 659 prior to owning a 880. I was pleased with the 659 for the
most part (the Harmony setup needs to be streamlined and the web
interface is too slow), but decided to upgrade to the 880 due to the
rechargable battery. I'm not extremely happy with the new 880. I've had
to return two of them already, and the second return took a very long
time. There is no question, that Logitech will have worse support than
SD customers are probably used to.

I'm not trying to bash Logitech here. I have a whole slew of Logitech
products, including four different sets of computer speakers and
numerous mice (in addition to the two Harmony remotes). In fact, I'm
listening to one of my squeezeboxes right now on a set of Logitech
speakers and using my Harmony to control it! They usually make pretty
good stuff, but it can be frustrating. I won't touch their newer
computer speakers, and getting all the mouse buttons to work in
computer games usually requires manually editting the Windows registry.
Logitech has a lot of neat products, but the quality has been a little
suspect, especially lately.

My advice, buy now!


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-23 Thread Pale Blue Ego

jacques;148930 Wrote: 
 What are people using for compact players with the Squeezebox?

One of the best-sounding systems that is modestly sized and priced is
the Aego M from Acoustic Energy.  Get them for $200 at www.ccrane.com
or www.audioadvisor.com


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-22 Thread CatBus

My opinion is that existing products will not be altered one bit, except
perhaps in packaging and availability in brick-and-mortar retail
outlets.

Future product directions are another story.  If you were looking into
something with dubious mass-market appeal like the Transporter, I'd say
buy now for fear that it could be discontinued in favor of a lower-end
consumer model.  But the Squeezebox is an established crowd-pleaser and
money-earner.  Logitech won't touch it.


-- 
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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-22 Thread snarlydwarf

CatBus;148837 Wrote: 
 My opinion is that existing products will not be altered one bit, except
 perhaps in packaging and availability in brick-and-mortar retail
 outlets.

I agree with that.

 
 Future product directions are another story.  If you were looking into
 something with dubious mass-market appeal like the Transporter, I'd say
 buy now for fear that it could be discontinued in favor of a lower-end
 consumer model.  But the Squeezebox is an established crowd-pleaser and
 money-earner.  Logitech won't touch it.

I don't agree with that: how did Harmony's product line change?  

You and I may be sane and not think it's worth $200 for a keyboard, but
Logitech sells them.  (no idea why anyone would pay that for a keyboard,
but I know a lot of people who don't understand why I use a Squeezebox
instead of just an iPod plugged into a stereo...)

I don't think Logitech cares about what is a niche market and what is
not: they seem to like to have a wide range of products and get people
at every price/feature mark.  The people satisfied with throwing away
$10 mice when the break (me, though I will admit it is very rare that I
can't fix one by cleaning it), and the people that spend $100 on a
mouse  The people that want a plain old Universal Remote, or the
people that want a programmable remote with custom keys and LCD
display.

As for buy now vs wait: sure you can wait.  Or not.  The ex- had a
photography teacher that denounced all digital cameras because they
keep improving them, so whatever you buy will be outdated!

By that token, you shouldn't buy a car, since newer models will come
out with more features.  And don't buy a TV, the price will come down
on huge HD screens.

Buy stuff if you want it: new stuff coming is always true for
electronics.  If you want to wait until a technology settles, you will
miss out.


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-22 Thread jeffluckett

Really your choices are quite simple.

If you buy now, you're getting a known quantity.

If you buy later, you can't be sure what you're going to get.  Will it
be better, or compromised for mass-market appeal?  Will the pricepoint
shift?  Who knows.

So, if you're a gambling man, wait ... play the market, put all your
chips on 13 Black.  But if you are a money in the bank kinda fella
... then buy one now.


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-22 Thread jacques

Well I have a feeling that I'll be buying one now and more later. Right
now I have a computer in the basement playing audio server with
Slimserver and TiVo software on it. The CDs are all ripped and we use
an old laptop and SoftSqueeze upstairs to listen to our music. The
laptop would get replaced with a Squeezebox.

But, my wife would like something in the kitchen also. The upstairs is
connected to a component audio system. But that's overkill for the
kitchen. What are people using for compact players with the Squeezebox?


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[slim] Re: Buy a Squeezebox now or wait?

2006-10-22 Thread Kevin O. Lepard

What are people using for compact players with the Squeezebox?


I'm using a Bose with one of mine (a fact that I'm sure will elicit 
rolled eyes and groans from some here) and a Denon bookshelf system 
with another.  Both are fine for where they are in use.


If you want smaller yet, I hear the Tivoli's sound pretty good, 
though I've not had the chance to listen to any myself.


Kevin
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