[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
DrNic;175320 Wrote: MP3Gain will let you change the reference point (as said above) but his only works when the value is written to the file (ie the track data is altered - rather than reading a value from a tag). Otherwise the analysis value stored to tag is like the value stored to tag from Foobar's Replaygain... Playing around with the MP3Gain GUI, I don't know. I can alter the reference level at any time. It appears that all it needs is one analysis pass, either during that session or before. In the file it appears to store a value that it places in its volume column, the track gain column is simply a difference between the volume value and the reference value you type in at the top. So when you open the GUI, the volume and gain values pop up instantly for files that were previously analyzed. If there's been no analysis, there won't be any volume/gain values until they are analyzed. When you change the reference value, note that the gain values change instantly without rewriting the files (in fact they change as you type) - this is indicating it's an in-session instant calculation based on the difference between the new reference value and the volume value. But this new adjustment won't be saved in the file unless you do a track analysis again. The gain button operates the same but performs both the analysis and alters the volume bits. So the next time you view such files, you'll always see a gain of 0 because the file's volume has actually been altered to your reference value. It will only indicate anything other than 0 if your reference value isn't what you used when you altered the file's volume the first time. -- Mark Lanctot It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response. - Jon Heal Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
eschurr;175508 Wrote: None taken. :) this article was VERY interesting. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=24527st=0 it leads me to wonder: why screw around with ReplayGain tags? Why not just use MP3Gain to volume adjust the files so they play the same volume in SB and all other MP3 players? is there somee downside to this? That really is interesting. I always thought that MP3Gain = ReplayGain. From that article, it appears not! -- thing-fish [image: http://imagegen.last.fm/3line/recenttracks/thing-fish.gif] thing-fish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5288 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
eschurr;175508 Wrote: None taken. :) this article was VERY interesting. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=24527st=0 it leads me to wonder: why screw around with ReplayGain tags? Why not just use MP3Gain to volume adjust the files so they play the same volume in SB and all other MP3 players? is there somee downside to this? That really is interesting. I always thought that MP3Gain = ReplayGain. From that article, it appears not! -- thing-fish [image: http://imagegen.last.fm/3line/recenttracks/thing-fish.gif] thing-fish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5288 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
thanks -- that's consistent with my experience, too. I can't see any reason to write ReplayGain tags (which only work with smart devices like a Squeezebox) as vs. adjusting the Gain on the file so it plays at the desired level on ANY playback device (like an iPod). Can you? -- eschurr eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
eschurr;175742 Wrote: thanks -- that's consistent with my experience, too. I can't see any reason to write ReplayGain tags (which only work with smart devices like a Squeezebox) as vs. adjusting the Gain on the file so it plays at the desired level on ANY playback device (like an iPod). Can you? Well, this depends if you are using a lossless compression (as I do). For MP3 you've already commited to lossing data - so altering the volume permanently really doesn't have a significant impact - other than if you have chosen to write the track gain values you won't be able to swap over to the album gain values without a re-write in the tags. For lossless files performing the Replaygain alteration on the fly results in a playback that is not truely lossless anymore. Writing the tags (rather than the file) is useful if you want to be able to switch between album track gains on the fly for either format. Hope that rambling makes some sense!! Nic -- DrNic DrNic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=92 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. it sounds like: for MP3 files, adjusting the Gain directly is ok (certainly no worse than using MP3s in the first place) and will work for any device that plays MP3 (that's good). for lossless formats (FLAC, etc) ReplayGain values are the way to go becasue they don't alter the musical part of the files. Right? -- eschurr eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
eschurr;175772 Wrote: for lossless formats (FLAC, etc) ReplayGain values are the way to go becasue they don't alter the musical part of the files. But of course, no tools exist that can alter the volume of lossless files the way MP3Gain can for MP3s. Of course there are 'normalization' algorithms, but this is something else entirely and very undesireable. -- Mark Lanctot It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response. - Jon Heal Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
eschurr;175136 Wrote: Can anyone explain this? I have a sample MP3 file where SlimServer shows a volume adjustment value of -13.50 (i think it came from an iTunNorm tag). Check this out: 1. use MP3Tag to delete the iTunNorm tag. There were no ReplayGain values in the files. 2. In Slimserver, clear library, rescan 3. Slimserver shows no volume adjustment (this makes sense) 4. In MP3Gain, load the track. Run track analysis. it shows a track adjustment value of -4.5 5. Go to MP3Tag for the same file. It shows a ReplayGain value of -9.26! 6. Go to Slimserver: clear library, rescan 7. Slimserver shows a volume adjusment value of -9.26 (this matches what MP3Tag shows, but is different than what MP3Gain shows, wich generated the value) 8. In Foobar2000, advanced edit: shows ReplayGain value of -4.745 (this matches what MP3Gain showed during Track Analysis but is different from MP3Tag and Slimserver) 9. MP3Gain: Undo, remove tags from files 10. MP3Tag: no replay gain value (makes sense) 11. Foobar2000: no replay gain value (makes sense) 12. Foobar2000: scan per-file track gain. shows value of -9.27 13. MP3Tag: shows replaygain value of -9.27 14. MP3Gain: Track analysis shows value of -4.5 (huh?) 15. MP3Tag: shows ReplayGain value of -4.5 16. FooBar2000 advanced edit: shows value of -9.27 17 SlimServer. Clear library, rescan. 18. Slimserver: volume adjustment value of -4.75 What is going on here? Hi Does this not just show the difference between the reference values set between ReplayGain MP3Gain? MP3Gain can have a user defined value therefore when you are IN that program if you analyse the track and your reference value is set to 93dB - the values in the list below it are referenced to this value. Going into MP3Tag or Foobar - shows you the stored replaygain value which is always referenced to 89dB (I think). MP3Gain will let you change the reference point (as said above) but his only works when the value is written to the file (ie the track data is altered - rather than reading a value from a tag). Otherwise the analysis value stored to tag is like the value stored to tag from Foobar's Replaygain... Hope that makes some sense!! Nic -- DrNic DrNic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=92 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
thesil;175167 Wrote: I am not being facetious here, but isn't about the music? If it aint broke, don't fix it; just enjoy the tunes, INMHO Respectfully - 1) this doesn't help the Original Poster, and 2) volume normalisation might be extremely important to some to enjoy the music, particularly if people listen in random mode etc. Nic -- DrNic DrNic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=92 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
No offense intended -- thesil thesil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9197 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
None taken. :) this article was VERY interesting. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=24527st=0 it leads me to wonder: why screw around with ReplayGain tags? Why not just use MP3Gain to volume adjust the files so they play the same volume in SB and all other MP3 players? is there somee downside to this? Also DrNic: thanks for your comments. I did not realize that Foobar2000 always uses 89db. That would explain something. -- eschurr eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
Have you got Mp3tag set to show ALL tag types in the songs? You need to have the Tags in File column (%_tag%) showing. You can use Mp3tag to strip all those annoying ITunNorm tags. Steve. -- SteveEast SteveEast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
yes, i do have it set to read all tags. and the tags in file column is displayed, and it says the file contains APEv2 and ID3v2.2 tags. I have used MP3Tag to strip the iTunNorm tag in the past, but after running MP3Gain over the file the iTunNorm tag doesn't show in MP3Tag. I doubt MP3Gain removes it. But if i can't see it in MP3Tag i can't remove it! Argh. All the variations on this tagging stuff is really confusing. -- eschurr eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
Can anyone explain this? I have a sample MP3 file where SlimServer shows a volume adjustment value of -13.50 (i think it came from an iTunNorm tag). Check this out: 1. use MP3Tag to delete the iTunNorm tag. There were no ReplayGain values in the files. 2. In Slimserver, clear library, rescan 3. Slimserver shows no volume adjustment (this makes sense) 4. In MP3Gain, load the track. Run track analysis. it shows a track adjustment value of -4.5 5. Go to MP3Tag for the same file. It shows a ReplayGain value of -9.26! 6. Go to Slimserver: clear library, rescan 7. Slimserver shows a volume adjusment value of -9.26 (this matches what MP3Tag shows, but is different than what MP3Gain shows, wich generated the value) 8. In Foobar2000, advanced edit: shows ReplayGain value of -4.745 (this matches what MP3Gain showed during Track Analysis but is different from MP3Tag and Slimserver) 9. MP3Gain: Undo, remove tags from files 10. MP3Tag: no replay gain value (makes sense) 11. Foobar2000: no replay gain value (makes sense) 12. Foobar2000: scan per-file track gain. shows value of -9.27 13. MP3Tag: shows replaygain value of -9.27 14. MP3Gain: Track analysis shows value of -4.5 (huh?) 15. MP3Tag: shows ReplayGain value of -4.5 16. FooBar2000 advanced edit: shows value of -9.27 17 SlimServer. Clear library, rescan. 18. Slimserver: volume adjustment value of -4.75 What is going on here? -- eschurr eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: MP3Gain, MP3Tag, iTunes craziness
I am not being facetious here, but isn't about the music? If it aint broke, don't fix it; just enjoy the tunes, INMHO -- thesil thesil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9197 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32178 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
