[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Mark Lanctot Wrote: > Bell Canada will not allow you to have DSL without having a phone number > attached to it - their phone service, of course. That defeats the > purpose of VoIP since you can't do away with your conventional phone, > or at least you don't stop paying for it. > That's pretty standard practice in the U.S. To the best of my knowledge Verizon is the only carrier here that will allow DSL on a dry pair and that takes some groveling before they give in and sign off on the installation. -- avaloncourt avaloncourt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
avaloncourt Wrote: > I was just listening to a tech radio show today and the caller was > Canadian. He talked about Shaw cable. They're penalizing accounts $10 > if they detect VoIP usage. They won't charge $10 if the subscriber uses > Shaw's VoIP service. Expect more of that. Wow that is pretty stupid. VoIP has been more or less crushed in Canada with things like that. In the East (Shaw's in the West), Bell Canada will not allow you to have DSL without having a phone number attached to it - their phone service, of course. That defeats the purpose of VoIP since you can't do away with your conventional phone, or at least you don't stop paying for it. This effectively limits VoIP to cable users. What's really crappy about it is that Bell is STILL not offering their own VoIP, so essentially they're saying "You can't have it until we offer it, in 2008 or thereabouts." I'm thankful that they aren't limiting Internet traffic by type, which is why I was saying things may be better here, but I wouldn't put it past them. The problem is, what alternative is there? None. If they say you can't have streaming media, you move to cable. If cable blocks it too (this is likely as they follow each other move-for-move) then you have to do without. It's as simple as that. Both out West and out East, you have two big monopolies. One DSL, one cable. For DSL, Telus in the West and Bell in the East. For cable, Shaw in the West and Rogers in the East. They try to compete with each other, but when it comes to customers they coundn't care less. It's not like "we won't give it to you for that price" it's more like "you can't have it, period." -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
rudholm Wrote: > That's ridiculous. VoIP doesn't use that much bandwidth (about 64kbps). > And in any case, are you not buying the advertised bandwidth? *It's as > if these ISPs think retail "broadband" is just port 80 and some email > and nothing else. That's not an IP connection --that's AOL (except > without all the value-added services and features).* > Actually, before Verizon Wireless rolled out BroadbandAccess their web access Terms of Service eliminated allowability for pretty much anything but port 80. They had an incredibly lengthy list of things that could get you terminated including streaming audio and video. I thought it interesting that accessing your home or business computer remotely through their system was another unforgivable sin with them. All that has disappeared with the BroadbandAccess TOS. -- avaloncourt avaloncourt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Ah! Proof, I have changed my ISP and now my Slimserver/Squeezebox is playing Shoutcast streams again for more than an hour without a single stutter, fingers crossed. Stays like this and Squeezebox and me will be best of friends again. Note if changing your ISP in the UK, dont forget to demand the MAC (migration application code) from your current ISP to enable a seamless transition otherwise there may be a ten-day delay. Thanks, Doug. -- Dougal Dougal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5489 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
avaloncourt Wrote: > I was just listening to a tech radio show today and the caller was > Canadian. He talked about Shaw cable. They're penalizing accounts $10 > if they detect VoIP usage. They won't charge $10 if the subscriber uses > Shaw's VoIP service. Expect more of that. That's ridiculous. VoIP doesn't use that much bandwidth (about 64kbps). And in any case, are you not buying the advertised bandwidth? It's as if these ISPs think retail "broadband" is just port 80 and some email and nothing else. That's not an IP connection --that's AOL (except without all the value-added services and features). I hope that customers don't stand for this nonsense and vote with their dollars (US or CDN). -- rudholm rudholm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2980 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Mark Lanctot Wrote: > Hmm. Maybe things aren't as bad in Canada as I thought. > > Bell's been stuck at 2 Mbps for about 5 years now but at least they're > not pulling stunts like that. Wouldn't put it past them to try though. I was just listening to a tech radio show today and the caller was Canadian. He talked about Shaw cable. They're penalizing accounts $10 if they detect VoIP usage. They won't charge $10 if the subscriber uses Shaw's VoIP service. Expect more of that. -- avaloncourt avaloncourt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Dougal Wrote: > But there must be something that makes slimserver, Squeezebox or > Softsqueeze to be treated differently than other media players like > winamp etc. Perhaps it is differences in the buffer size. -- bigjules bigjules's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4805 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
radish Wrote: > Why 3483? That's only used for internal communications between > slimserver and the squeezebox. Yes I really should read a bit more before committing finger to keyboard. But there must be something that makes slimserver, Squeezebox or Softsqueeze to be treated differently than other media players like winamp etc. -- Dougal Dougal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5489 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
avaloncourt Wrote: > It's a matter of controlling bandwidth, plain and simple. P2P and media > eat up massive amounts of providers' bandwith so they are actively > targeting packets being used for that purpose along with VoIP. This > goes hand in hand with the new attempts by Verizon to create a 2-tier > Internet. They want to double-dip fees from you and high-bandwith > services by attempting to charge on either end. It hasn't happened yet > but they've made their intentions known quite clearly. They want to > sell you a second tier of Internet access for VoIP, and streaming audio > and video usage while, at the same time, informing Google, Vonage and > others that they will have to pay fees to them for priority access into > their networks. Hmm. Maybe things aren't as bad in Canada as I thought. Bell's been stuck at 2 Mbps for about 5 years now but at least they're not pulling stunts like that. Wouldn't put it past them to try though. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
This really isn't a surprise. There's been a lot of talk lately about ISPs using traffic/packet shaping. There are now commercial routers manufactured to do this automatically. The question was asked, "I'm wondering what purpose it would serve the ISP. Did they do this to try to block P2P? If it's a conscious decision meant to block access in certain ways, sounds like corporate censorship." It's a matter of controlling bandwidth, plain and simple. P2P and media eat up massive amounts of providers' bandwith so they are actively targeting packets being used for that purpose along with VoIP. This goes hand in hand with the new attempts by Verizon to create a 2-tier Internet. They want to double-dip fees from you and high-bandwith services by attempting to charge on either end. It hasn't happened yet but they've made their intentions known quite clearly. They want to sell you a second tier of Internet access for VoIP, and streaming audio and video usage while, at the same time, informing Google, Vonage and others that they will have to pay fees to them for priority access into their networks. -- avaloncourt avaloncourt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Why 3483? That's only used for internal communications between slimserver and the squeezebox. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Hi, I presume that it is a port 3483 issue as all other media players on the PC don't seem to be affected and can stream all day without problems. Doug. -- Dougal Dougal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5489 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
If you're looking to change ISP in the UK I would strongly recommend you take a look at http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ - they have a very good area for comparing ISPs. I've heard in the past of ISPs downgrading your link if they detect filesharing traffic, but this is the first time I've heard of ISPs blocking audio streams. I suspect that Tiscali have a 'fair usage policy' which basically covers them to block any traffic that might actually use the bandwidth!! -- Browny http://www.last.fm/user/BrownySV/ Browny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2295 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
I read on a blog recently that Tiscali had implemented some kind of TCP/IP technology to disuade / prevent Torrent P2P users, and it was that technology which seemed to be affecting legitimate audio streaming apps. Can't remember for the life of me where (I aggregate a lot of music, technology and media blogs). Will see if I can find the link. -- Siduhe Siduhe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Dougal, do you know if Tiscali do anything similar to AlienBBC streams? -- Fifer Fifer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Dougal Wrote: > Hi, > It was just a process of elimination really as I at first thought it > may be the router so bought another, result just the same and then > googling for clues before I spend an hour on the telephone to the help > line, when I got through the chap on the line wasnt able to give me a > satisfactory answer. > While googling I found this, and yes this is (soon to be was) my ISP. > ** > Radio Netherlands reports that Italian-owned ISP Tiscali has blocked > ADSL access to webcasts from some of Holland's most popular commercial > broadcasters: Radio 538, Radio Veronica, Sky Radio and Classic FM. > Apparently their digital audio streams had become too popular, > consuming more bandwidth than Tiscali thought was appropriate. What's > next - limits on the number of queries that Tiscali customers can send > to search engines? > > http://tinyurl.com/k74zt > > * > They are really cheap, but if they do not want their customers > streaming they should point this out in the contract instead of > advertising it as an unlimited always on connection. > Regards, > Doug. Yes, you could have them charged with false advertising. "Unlimited" doesn't mean "Unlimited except for certain traffic on certain ports, in which case it's limited". -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Marc Sherman Wrote: > Mark Lanctot wrote: > > > > The so-called "independent" ISPs around here just buy bandwidth from > > the big two so that wouldn't help either. > > That's true, but it's not the whole story. At least for DSL service in > Ontario, Bell (the phone company) implements their various limitations > (such as bandwidth shaping, port 25 blocking, etc) at the ISP > (Sympatico) layer, not at the DSL transport (Nexxia) layer. So the > independent ISPs are free to sell you a service that has different (or > no) limitations, even though they are reselling the same Bell > Nexxia-provided DSL service. > > - Marc Well that's good to know! Thanks. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Hi, It was just a process of elimination really as I at first thought it may be the router so bought another, result just the same and then googling for clues before I spend an hour on the telephone to the help line, when I got through the chap on the line wasnt able to give me a satisfactory answer. While googling I found this, and yes this is (soon to be was) my ISP. ** Radio Netherlands reports that Italian-owned ISP Tiscali has blocked ADSL access to webcasts from some of Holland's most popular commercial broadcasters: Radio 538, Radio Veronica, Sky Radio and Classic FM. Apparently their digital audio streams had become too popular, consuming more bandwidth than Tiscali thought was appropriate. What's next - limits on the number of queries that Tiscali customers can send to search engines? http://tinyurl.com/k74zt * They are really cheap, but if they do not want their customers streaming they should point this out in the contract instead of advertising it as an unlimited always on connection. Regards, Doug. -- Dougal Dougal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5489 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
Mark Lanctot wrote: > > The so-called "independent" ISPs around here just buy bandwidth from > the big two so that wouldn't help either. That's true, but it's not the whole story. At least for DSL service in Ontario, Bell (the phone company) implements their various limitations (such as bandwidth shaping, port 25 blocking, etc) at the ISP (Sympatico) layer, not at the DSL transport (Nexxia) layer. So the independent ISPs are free to sell you a service that has different (or no) limitations, even though they are reselling the same Bell Nexxia-provided DSL service. - Marc ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Slimserver and ISP's
How specifically did you determine this? Not that I doubt you, I'm just wondering. I'm wondering what purpose it would serve the ISP. Did they do this to try to block P2P? If it's a conscious decision meant to block access in certain ways, sounds like corporate censorship. It could definitely happen here. In the U.S., one ISP was blocking VoIP ports so that it could sell its own VoIP service. Here in Canada, there are only two major national ISPs thanks to our wonderful love of monopolies. If one instituted a policy like this, you'd have no choice but to go to the other, and if they both did it, you'd be SOL. The so-called "independent" ISPs around here just buy bandwidth from the big two so that wouldn't help either. Nice to have corporate fatcats decide what you can and can't listen to and see, and you pay them for the privilege. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24388 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
