[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
CardinalFang Wrote: I must admit I can see both sides to this. I bought into the community and open source nature of SlimDevices because I like to tweak and modify my setup, but I can also see how someone seeing the SB in a review would not expect to have to touch a damn thing after installation. There is a dilemma here, to be more successful for those people who want to install and leave alone, then it has to be a lot more solid out of the box. No matter how many times you can point to inferior products, that doesn't make this one better. At the same time it still has to appeal to the community that contribute and therefore be fast moving. I personally think the answer is to have much more solid and well-tested releases for more general users, rather than enthusiasts. These would be updated a lot less often and be more rigorously QA'd. The nuts like me who like to live on the bleeding edge can carry our with the nightlies and betas and scratch our heads when it doesn't work. I know it's kind of like this already, but I think the builds for people who don't want to fiddle need to be more robust. The fact that Roku are tied to products like iTunes gives them that. Paul Well put! Having a stable turnkey solution is appealing for the consumer who simply wants to play their encoded music on their stereo. May be not a whole lot of options and features, but easy configuration, setup and operation. At the same time, having the SB and slimserver pieces available for hackers to make code changes or enhancements is appealing to a different group of consumers. As an example, TiVo boxes can be hacked and modifications made (voids warranty) or you can simply enjoy the system the way it was designed. -- joek joek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3318 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Michaelwagner Wrote: This sounds like a good idea. Some of the options could use better explanations and a wizard-like sequential walk-through model. I agree - and with it a much simpler interface with very few options to change. Most new users shouldn't need to go anywhere near the web interface. It all should work through the SB screen and remote to get started, which I know it does, but make it really, really robust, even if that means taking out features for the majority of users. SlimServerLite to coin a phrase. It's not as fully featured, but there's a lot less to go wrong... Paul -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
snipOn 2/7/06, CardinalFang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:but make it really, really robust, evenif that means taking out features for the majority of users. Now there's a way to alienate your enthusiast community! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
CardinalFang Wrote: SlimServerLite to coin a phrase. Or SlimServer, Training Wheel edition :-) -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Ben Sandee Wrote: Now there's a way to alienate your enthusiast community! It's a difficult line to tread well. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Michaelwagner Wrote: It's a difficult line to tread well. Not so hard if you can do it as a beginner mode / expert mode arrangement (ie its all there if you want it, but you can operate in a simple mode if you want). Or, if I interpret Dan's post correctly, don't take any functionality out but just add a Wizard to help beginners get most of the settings into a sensible starting position. Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Ben Sandee Wrote: snip On 2/7/06, CardinalFang CardinalFang.22vljb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com wrote: but make it really, really robust, even if that means taking out features for the majority of users. Now there's a way to alienate your enthusiast community! Why, if the majority of users don't want it and just want plug and play, why leave it in their version? The enthusiasts can still have all the bells and whistles in their version, can't they? Lets face it most people don't use most of the features of most equipment and the best designs don't punish them for not using those features. It's home vs pro editions of the software, and it can be from the same code base. It begs the question - what is the ratio of enthusiasts versus average consumers who buy SBs? If there is, or the potential for, many more Joe Consumers than tweakers, then SlimServer should get packaged and adjusted to fit that need. Paul -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
I ran into a number of the exact same problems, then returned the Squeezebox3 after too many wireless dropouts and crashes. They are claiming my unit had a bad wireless card. Perhaps your unit is defective. Isn't fun paying $300 to test this product? It's like a hobby! I am still really looking forward to a working wireless music setup, someday. -- slimdemage slimdemage's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3606 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
slimdemage Wrote: I ran into a number of the exact same problems, then returned the Squeezebox3 after too many wireless dropouts and crashes. They are claiming my unit had a bad wireless card. Perhaps your unit is defective. Isn't fun paying $300 to test this product? It's like a hobby! I am still really looking forward to a working wireless music setup, someday. I must admit I can see both sides to this. I bought into the community and open source nature of SlimDevices because I like to tweak and modify my setup, but I can also see how someone seeing the SB in a review would not expect to have to touch a damn thing after installation. There is a dilemma here, to be more successful for those people who want to install and leave alone, then it has to be a lot more solid out of the box. No matter how many times you can point to inferior products, that doesn't make this one better. At the same time it still has to appeal to the community that contribute and therefore be fast moving. I personally think the answer is to have much more solid and well-tested releases for more general users, rather than enthusiasts. These would be updated a lot less often and be more rigorously QA'd. The nuts like me who like to live on the bleeding edge can carry our with the nightlies and betas and scratch our heads when it doesn't work. I know it's kind of like this already, but I think the builds for people who don't want to fiddle need to be more robust. The fact that Roku are tied to products like iTunes gives them that. Paul -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
I think many (most?) of us can see that it could be a better experience for people out of the box. I'm just not sure how to get there. And I'm sure there are many different ideas on how to get there. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
* Michaelwagner shaped the electrons to say... I think many (most?) of us can see that it could be a better experience for people out of the box. I'm just not sure how to get there. And I'm sure there are many different ideas on how to get there. One of the things I'm working on in my copious spare time(tm) is a Setup Wizard - which will hopefully answer questions and be a lot more use friendly than what exists today. -D -- I'm really looking forward to this hangover. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Dan Sully Wrote: One of the things I'm working on in my copious spare time(tm) [...] I'm really looking forward to this hangover. I bet those 2 go together ... a Setup Wizard - which will hopefully answer questions and be a lot more use friendly than what exists today. This sounds like a good idea. Some of the options could use better explanations and a wizard-like sequential walk-through model. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Michaelwagner Wrote: If you're new to the Squeezeboxes, a few comments are in order. People on this list know most of this stuff, but forget that newcomers don't. The Squeezebox is a thin client (the slim in the name), so there's not all that much in the box itself. A processor, a software DSP, stuff for the display, the DAC, some memory for a buffer, a network interface, power regulation, a few other things). Oh, the wireless card if you have a wireless one. Most of the decisions are made in the server, which is open source and easily updated or modified. Almost everything you wrote about is really coding in the server, not the squeezebox itself. So when people say it's not the squeezebox, what they mean is, it's not something that needs firmware updates, therefore it is easy to fix. There are people on the list who can answer, in more details, whether what you're describing is a bug, whether it's been fixed in the beta releases already or not, and how to go about getting it fixed. One of the things that isn't clear about the squeezebox initially is that there are so many music formats, so many methods of accessing the server, etc, that not all options get properly checked out and sometimes bugs slip through. Okay, I've looked at the bugzilla database (scary reading) and thought I'd update my comments a bit. 1) This is listed as #571 although this report dates from before the SB could do native wma. 2) This is listed as #2486 and #1191. 3) This is not listed. 4) Personally, I think WAV should not be transcoded by default but I don't really care since its configurable. 5) This is not listed and is the most serious in my opinion. 6) This is not listed but also seems to have stopped happening. Not quite sure what changed. 7) This is not listed. My guess is that it sometimes forgets its dealing with a sorted list. 8) I think this only happens in the 6.5 beta so it doesn't really count. If I can create a login for bugzilla I will add bug reports for 3, 5 and 7. -- shawkie shawkie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3751 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Yet another update. 5) The artifacts are actually gaps introduced by the squeezebox (or slimserver?). Not entirely suprising. I've tested it with the same track at different bitrates. At 178kbps (avg?) I just get a couple of (relatively) long gaps near the start of the track. At 448kbps (avg?) I get longer gaps near the start and small gaps at fairly regular intervals all the way through the track. I guess thats logical. But why does it play perfectly when transcoded to WAV which is 1440kbps? -- shawkie shawkie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3751 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
shawkie wrote: 8) I think this only happens in the 6.5 beta so it doesn't really count. If I can create a login for bugzilla I will add bug reports for 3, 5 and 7. File a bug for 8 too, just make sure you note that it's new in 6.5. - Marc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Marc Sherman wrote: File a bug for 8 too, just make sure you note that it's new in 6.5. ... and while you're there, vote for the other bugs you discovered already filed, to indicate your interest in seeing them fixed, and also to subscribe to status changes on the bugs to keep track of them. - Marc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Marc Sherman Wrote: while you're there, vote for the other bugs you discovered already filed, to indicate your interest in seeing them fixed, and also to subscribe to status changes on the bugs to keep track of them. I think if you vote for a bug, you're automatically subscribed. But check just to be sure ... I may be mis-remembering. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/06 11:25 AM PAUL WILLIAMSON Wrote: I can't look at bugzilla Why not? It's open to everyone. Because (at that point) the proxy server at work was down. I only had e-mail... ;-) Paul ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
shawkie Wrote: I've just bought a new Squeezebox3 and I can't believe how buggy it seems to be. Give it a little time. It'll grow on you. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Some of them may already be fixed - try a 6.2 nightly. WMA support was new in 6.1 so the bugs may well be sorted (I don't know 'cos I don't use it). 2) fair comment on the button operation, but there is a plugin that allows you to jump to any point in a song I think. Maybe that would work for you. 3) is correct - you have shuttled back to the start of the song and can't go any earlier. 4) if you don't like the default setting, just change it in Server Settings - File Types by unchecking that particular conversion type. It's pretty easy to force it to stream the format you want. 7) I have seen something like this, but not for a while. If you get it after trying 6.2, either file a bug or post here and I'll file one! -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
Thanks for your reply. I just tried the latest beta and it seems to have all the same bugs plus a new one. 8) After fast forwarding a WAV file and resuming playback it plays back okay for a few seconds and then becomes slow and choppy. And some more comments 3) If you rewind from the middle of a track it is possible to rewind through the track break into the previous track. So why is this not possible from the start of a track? 7) This bug is definitely still present in both 6.2.1 and the latest beta. -- shawkie shawkie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3751 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
shawkie Wrote: 1) Fast forward doesn't work on WMA lossy (CBR or VBR) files. It says Scanning 2X but the audio stops and the progress bar doesn't move. Pressing play causes playback causes it to stop saying Scanning 2X but still no audio. Pressing play again causes playback to start from the beginning of the track. 2) Fast forward on FLAC and WAV causes the progress bar to stop working properly. It counting from 0 again towards the end of the track. It sorts itself out at the start of the next track. I also don't particularly like the way you have to press, hold and then release the button to make it do fast forward or fast forward faster. It would have been much better if the remote had individual buttons for fast forward and track advance. Failing that maybe the longer you hold the button for the faster it goes? 3) Rewind (on WAV and possibly FLAC) just after a track advance causes it to say Scanning -2X but the audio stops and the progress bar doesn't move. Pressing play causes playback to resume. I have these exact same problems. I am hoping the problems are due to Slimserver and not the SB3. All the nightly beta's i have tried have been to buggy for me. Waiting for the proper 6.5 release to see if that helps. Anyone know when 6.5 is due for release? -- dangerous_dom dangerous_dom's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
If you're new to the Squeezeboxes, a few comments are in order. People on this list know most of this stuff, but forget that newcomers don't. The Squeezebox is a thin client (the slim in the name), so there's not all that much in the box itself. A processor, a software DSP, stuff for the display, the DAC, some memory for a buffer, a network interface, power regulation, a few other things). Oh, the wireless card if you have a wireless one. Most of the decisions are made in the server, which is open source and easily updated or modified. Almost everything you wrote about is really coding in the server, not the squeezebox itself. So when people say it's not the squeezebox, what they mean is, it's not something that needs firmware updates, therefore it is easy to fix. There are people on the list who can answer, in more details, whether what you're describing is a bug, whether it's been fixed in the beta releases already or not, and how to go about getting it fixed. One of the things that isn't clear about the squeezebox initially is that there are so many music formats, so many methods of accessing the server, etc, that not all options get properly checked out and sometimes bugs slip through. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20773 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Re: Squeezebox3 seems very buggy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/04/06 1:52 PM I have these exact same problems. I am hoping the problems are due to Slimserver and not the SB3. All the nightly beta's i have tried have been to buggy for me. Waiting for the proper 6.5 release to see if that helps. Anyone know when 6.5 is due for release? LOL. That's some funny ish...the HTML for the browser control is barely working right. I doubt it will be anytime soon. I would bet that 6.2 train will be working without flaw (or close) first. All these bugs sound like they're already reported. I can't look at bugzilla, but if they aren't reported, they can't get fixed. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
