Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Hi, Wol is a complex thing. its Hard & Softwarebased. So please describe your Network and what Versions / Os you have (with the problems) Basic is: The "Bios"/UEFI has a Menü - WOL must be enabled. The Switch/ Router has a Map "this MAC Adress" is here "this Mac Address" is there and "that MacAdress" is internal unknown. May it helps to put Reserved Ips for your stuff - then the Router knows "that MAC Address is local". To tell you about my office - everytime i get a new (fresh) System i cant WOL it up - even when i know the MAC. It has to be online one time. (But i dont poweroff the switches/Router) If a "winblows" system bluescreens and i shut it down / or i shut it down the "Hard" way - i cant wol it on. It has to start "clean" one Time. So ves - there is some knowledge (for working WOL) inside your Stuff that is lost when you power it off. cheers Gruss Jan DJanGo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1516 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
The server is HP microserver N36L with clear OS 6 beta ( redhat Linux ) WOL is enabled in bios it works for my daily and weekly use , the problem only occurs after a long time away . The router is an old linksys wrt54L with tomato firmware there are some simple Netgear switches in use ( blue small officestuff no settings or advanced features ) . Basically it's Internet to router , router to switches then all computers server and desktop are wired two squeezeboxes are wired. It's one network with one subnet as simple as you can have it . Server , computer and squeezeboxes have static network adresses outside of the routers DCHP pool . Combined with switches that means that the desktop and the server can comunicate even when the router is down . That's why I suspect the NIC in the server as I use "etherwake" on my desktop ( the desktop is linux mint )that basically is wired to the server and send a magic package aimed at the correct mac for th server NIC ? Alsomthe tomato router software has a feature where can manually input the correct mac and WOL stuff, this does not work either I may try to experiment with the server if it's NIC forgots it supposed to listen for WOL after prolonged off . I may start there pulling the power cable out of the server for a bit longer time . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Due to my erratic travel schedule I have no clue to exactly how long I have to be away = not using the equipment Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
I'd say likely to be the router forgetting the location of the server due to inactivity. ARP tables etc QNAP TS419p 4Tb LMS7.6.1 Living Room - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - > Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser HDR 130 Office - SB3 -> Sony TA FE320 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes Bedroom - SBT -> Topping TP21 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes Remote - Squeezeplay -> Windows XP PC -> USB Speakers d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
d6jg wrote: > I'd say likely to be the router forgetting the location of the server > due to inactivity. ARP tables etc But is not wol supposed to work over broadcast ? if i use an utility where i can manually spec the mac anything on the net with that mac should wake up ? But keep the ideas coming , I'm not in a hurry is this is not disturbing functionality in the day to day use . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Mnyb wrote: > Server , computer and squeezeboxes have static network adresses outside > of the routers DCHP pool . > Combined with switches that means that the desktop and the server can > comunicate even when the router is down. > > That's why I suspect the NIC in the server as I use "etherwake" on my > desktop ( the desktop is linux mint )that basically is wired to the > server and send a magic package aimed at the correct mac for th server > NIC ? > I may start there pulling the power cable out of the server for a bit > longer time . Hi, please "try" to use additional dhcp reserved addresses also - your right Servers should have fixed / static Adresses. it may help But dont remove the power cable, that wont fix nothing. Mnyb wrote: > But is not wol supposed to work over broadcast ? if i use an utility > where i can manually spec the mac anything on the net with that mac > should wake up ? yupp - but the "bios" or "uefi" hasnt a complete Ipstack. I knew some Systems that even if the Nic is plugged to a switch and the Server / PC is plugged to the power the nics wont blink unless you start them (equal if completly to the os or just with the enter Bios key pressed) Mnyb wrote: > But keep the ideas coming , I'm not in a hurry is this is not disturbing > functionality in the day to day use. as d6jg also mentioned - the arpcache should be one of the things to sort out first. And you can use the trick with the reserved ips (in the dhcp / Router) to find out if it helps or not. To make that clear - i dont want you to enable DHCP or reserved Address in the server itself - just in the router! Gruss Jan DJanGo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1516 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
The MAC will disappear from the ARP table after a while. But as you use the broadcast address this should not be an issue. Enters power management. For a few years now PCs which are euro-compliant are mandated to feature a power off mode ~ 1Wh. Many (all?) machines will reach this level only with the Ethernet board fully powered off. In this mode the thing is dead, no matter of WOL will wake the computer. A bios option should be available to engage/ disable the feature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standby_power Same goes for "green Ethernet" switches/routers. These will modulate the power applied to an Ethernet port according to the detected cable length, negotiated speed, and will power off ports which are not connected (or connected to a dead link, I suppose.) I believe the amount of power saved by port is minuscule; but considering a sparely populated 16-port switch operating 24/365, I suppose the initiative makes sense. I your router/switch is of the green Ethernet kind, you will probably find an option related to power in its management interface. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ethernet HTH 4 SB 3 iPeng (iPhone + iPad) SqueezeLite Squeezebox Server 7.6.2 (Debian 6.0) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput by bpa IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) Server Power Control by Gordon Harris Smart Mix by Michael Herger PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple Song Info, Song Lyrics by Erland Isaksson Just Covers by Tom Kalmijn WeatherTime by Martin Rehfeld Local Player, BBC iPlayer, SwitchPlayer by Triode Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins. epoch1970's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16711 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Thank's again ! i will read this more carefully when i get home . Why i wanted to pull the plug was to test if the root cause is that the server looses its memory , before investigating more complex causes . It can be that simple as everything works fine ( including wol ) when i'm around . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
One part solved for now ( I must gather more data after a long stay from home ). Fact I forgot to mention i use WOL to boot the server it's not ojust the standby part . The server NIC can't remember a thing even if remove the power just a couple of seconds . So power cable must be in even if the server is "off" . Experiment : disconnected the router from network ( to exclude any issues there and also exclude help from recent arp cache ) desktop pc off iPeng off . Turned off the server from the front button ( confirmed OS shutdown ) pressed "on" on my boom who happens to be conected to the same switch , the server booted up fine . Now I briefly removed power from the server , tried to WOL again no sucess . Know I know that . Server will now WOL as usual until next power outage . What surprised me was that it has no memory backup for this ? , so while I'm away working on some project I migth very well have some short power outage at home who I'm unaware of . That explain some of the occasions when this won't work . NIC is on the mobo and the mobo remembers time and other settings so it has functioning backup battery it just this setting that gets dropped . So either it is a setting I can change in the bios or more likely this settings is not stored in any fprom just volatile memory so it is this way nothing to do really . It migth even be so that the network hardware just sits on the mobo but does not really share any memory and functionality with the bios and is its own thing anyway . And I also tested that my wired players can WOL the server without any help from the router . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Mnyb wrote: > One part solved for now ( I must gather more data after a long stay from > home ). > > Fact I forgot to mention i use WOL to boot the server it's not ojust the > standby part . > > The server NIC can't remember a thing even if remove the power just a > couple of seconds . So power cable must be in even if the server is > "off" . > > Experiment : > > disconnected the router from network ( to exclude any issues there and > also exclude help from recent arp cache ) desktop pc off iPeng off . > > Turned off the server from the front button ( confirmed OS shutdown ) > pressed "on" on my boom who happens to be conected to the same switch , > the server booted up fine . > > Now I briefly removed power from the server , tried to WOL again no > sucess . Know I know that . > > Server will now WOL as usual until next power outage . > > What surprised me was that it has no memory backup for this ? , so while > I'm away working on some project I migth very well have some short power > outage at home who I'm unaware of . That explain some of the occasions > when this won't work . > NIC is on the mobo and the mobo remembers time and other settings so it > has functioning backup battery it just this setting that gets dropped . > So either it is a setting I can change in the bios or more likely this > settings is not stored in any fprom just volatile memory so it is this > way nothing to do really . It migth even be so that the network hardware > just sits on the mobo but does not really share any memory and > functionality with the bios and is its own thing anyway . > > And I also tested that my wired players can WOL the server without any > help from the router . I had the same issue with my Vortexbox. I had to edit /usr/local/sbin/network_up.sh and add the following 'echo "ethtool -s eth0 wol g" | at now + 1 minute' to set the WOL configuration after the network had started. This is with Fedora 16, so YMMV. induna's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34626 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
induna wrote: > I had the same issue with my Vortexbox. I had to edit > /usr/local/sbin/network_up.sh and add the following 'echo "ethtool -s > eth0 wol g" | at now + 1 minute' to set the WOL configuration after the > network had started. This is with Fedora 16, so YMMV. Really ? I'll check my configuration , I have something similar already so WOL is working but it was years since I've done that . Do your vbox handle the total loss of power case ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Mnyb wrote: > Really ? I'll check my configuration , I have something similar already > so WOL is working but it was years since I've done that . > Do your vbox handle the total loss of power case ? Yes, it does. I believe that the problem was a timing issue. Although the WOL setting was correct, it was being applied before the network interface loaded and wasn't taking effect on the initial boot from power off/sutdown, but did take effect after re-boots. The work-around re-applies the proper configuration after the network has been up for 1 minute. You may be having a different issue, but even so this might point you in the right direction. induna's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34626 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
induna wrote: > Yes, it does. I believe that the problem was a timing issue. Although > the WOL setting was correct, it was being applied before the network > interface loaded and wasn't taking effect after cold boots, but did take > effect after warm boots. The work-around re-applies the proper > configuration after the network has been up for 1 minute. You may be > having a different issue, but even so this might point you in the right > direction. Interesting it could be hardware dependent too I can't remember my old server doing this . In fact I will check even closer it was so long ago that I migth remember it wrong , my old server needed some script a long these lines to even to do a varm boot ! I'll check if my current OS and hardware really needed that . I migth have skipped this part if WOL " just worked " or reused a solution that does not really fit this hardware . Thanks for the input . I'm really no computer expert so I have to work a bit to get around these things . Do you use a hardware vortexbox or are you using a microserver ? Some HP microservers are used as vorteboxes . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Mnyb wrote: > Interesting it could be hardware dependent too I can't remember my old > server doing this . > In fact I will check even closer it was so long ago that I migth > remember it wrong , my old server needed some script a long these lines > to even to do a varm boot ! I'll check if my current OS and hardware > really needed that . > I migth have skipped this part if WOL " just worked " or reused a > solution that does not really fit this hardware . > > Thanks for the input . I'm really no computer expert so I have to work a > bit to get around these things . > > Do you use a hardware vortexbox or are you using a microserver ? Some HP > microservers are used as vorteboxes . I'm using a Zotac Box Nano. It works very well. induna's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34626 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
induna wrote: > I had the same issue with my Vortexbox. I had to edit > /usr/local/sbin/network_up.sh and add the following 'echo "ethtool -s > eth0 wol g" | at now + 1 minute' to set the WOL configuration after the > network had started. This is with Fedora 16, so YMMV. nah that did not work i had to set it elsewhere but it it did not take ( i tried different variations to ) . Workaround is to have the server to boot at powerfailure , possibly another NIC may actually work Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
Mnyb wrote: > What surprised me was that it has no memory backup for this ? I don't think this has much to do with "memory". I surmise either: a - soft power off mode differs from cold power off in the network card status b - when the machine encounters a power failure event, somehow the bios gets zapped to a factory config that has the NIC disabled in power off mode I've seen b) happen, but typically this would require many power failures in a row (like a machine failing to boot a few times, and the bios rolling back to failsafe defaults). Or a dead battery on the motherboard (sensors should tell you that; or the date reported by the machine early in the boot process.) For me the most probable circumstance is a) and I would try 2 things: 1 - check there isn't a bios option to keep the network card active in cold off mode. 2 - change the power failure mode to "restart", and rely on the OS power management logic to bring the machine to soft-off again after a while. I would prefer option 1) to work, by a mile. Power events rarely come alone, it's probably better not to have the server get caught by a secondary power failure while it is checking its disk drive due to the 1st unexpected restart... (or perhaps you can get creative with the bios scheduled start feature --like: every day at 10pm--, depending of how it behaves when the machine is in soft-off mode, and how you can manipulate this setting from the booted OS...) 4 SB 3 iPeng (iPhone + iPad) SqueezeLite Squeezebox Server 7.6.2 (Debian 6.0) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput by bpa IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) Server Power Control by Gordon Harris Smart Mix by Michael Herger PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple Song Info, Song Lyrics by Erland Isaksson Just Covers by Tom Kalmijn WeatherTime by Martin Rehfeld Local Player, BBC iPlayer, SwitchPlayer by Triode Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins. epoch1970's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16711 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] WOL after a long time off ? Issue
epoch1970 wrote: > I don't think this has much to do with "memory". > I surmise either: > a - soft power off mode differs from cold power off in the network card > status > b - when the machine encounters a power failure event, somehow the bios > gets zapped to a factory config that has the NIC disabled in power off > mode > > I've seen b) happen, but typically this would require many power > failures in a row (like a machine failing to boot a few times, and the > bios rolling back to failsafe defaults). Or a dead battery on the > motherboard (sensors should tell you that; or the date reported by the > machine early in the boot process.) > For me the most probable circumstance is a) and I would try 2 things: > 1 - check there isn't a bios option to keep the network card active in > cold off mode. > 2 - change the power failure mode to "restart", and rely on the OS power > management logic to bring the machine to soft-off again after a while. > > I would prefer option 1) to work, by a mile. Power events rarely come > alone, it's probably better not to have the server get caught by a > secondary power failure while it is checking its disk drive due to the > 1st unexpected restart... > > (or perhaps you can get creative with the bios scheduled start feature > --like: every day at 10pm--, depending of how it behaves when the > machine is in soft-off mode, and how you can manipulate this setting > from the booted OS...) Yes I could not find such mode in the bios it's rather simplistic compared to my desktop who has all sort of stuff for everything . Cold of would mean some memory in prom or a battery there is no power so it has to remeber somehow a pity there is no bios settingto remebr this . The power modes are on,off and "current mode" (they chose another wording that eludes me) ? the "current" selection mean that it would return to the state it was in before the power failure . That means if it was off it would return to be off (orange lligth on the front NIC blinking ) but that apearently does not include listening for wol, packages . I rather live with as is it's really not a big problem ,actually having multiple reboots could potentially be a bigger problem as you say . But it satifies curiusity as why its happens , so less of a mystery most of my wol dysfunctions comes down to this , and it happens a couple of tiḿes on a year :) so it's not really worth to pursiut actively . I collect information and keep an Eye on it . There are bois mods but not target this issue . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100328 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
