Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
- Original Message - From: "William W. Austin" To: Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release On 2007-11-21 20:31:47, jonathon wrote: Mike wrote: >, then Open Office should not be telling users that they have to adapt to some arbitrary standard. ISO standards are not arbitrary. (At least, in theory they aren't arbitrary.) Suggesting that one use an ISO standard instead of an arbitrary, non-standard, unit is a reasonable request. xan jonathon Perhaps what Mike means is that while the ISO standard exists, his company has a large number of documents in which people have used whatever format they liked (randomly?) inputting the date info, and that OOo displays the dates differently. He might also find that such documents written in MSO 98 professional (or earlier) sometimes exhibit a similar problem when brought up in MSO 2003 on XP. :-/ Just my $0.02 worth (actually less than that due to inflation) - Bill -- william w. austin waus...@speakeasy.net "life is just another phase i'm going through. this time, anyway ..." - To unsubscribe, e-mail: discuss-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: discuss-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: discuss-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: discuss-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
On 2007-11-21 20:31:47, jonathon wrote: > Mike wrote: > > >, then Open Office should not be telling users that they have to > adapt to some arbitrary standard. > > ISO standards are not arbitrary. (At least, in theory they aren't > arbitrary.) > > Suggesting that one use an ISO standard instead of an arbitrary, > non-standard, unit is a reasonable request. > > xan > > jonathon Perhaps what Mike means is that while the ISO standard exists, his company has a large number of documents in which people have used whatever format they liked (randomly?) inputting the date info, and that OOo displays the dates differently. He might also find that such documents written in MSO 98 professional (or earlier) sometimes exhibit a similar problem when brought up in MSO 2003 on XP. :-/ Just my $0.02 worth (actually less than that due to inflation) - Bill -- william w. austin waus...@speakeasy.net "life is just another phase i'm going through. this time, anyway ..." - To unsubscribe, e-mail: discuss-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: discuss-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
2007/11/24, Tomas Lanczos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Michael Adams wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 20:07:52 -0500 > > John W. Kennedy wrote: > >> Alexandro Colorado wrote: > > > [Agreeing with all I removed from here, no need to repeat :-)] > > Following my memories from the times I used MS Excel - it always messed > up the dates, not only in files imported from OOo Calc, also in imported > CVS, TXT and others, often also in XLS files imported from computers > using different locales or probably also diff. version of Excel. I esp. > suffered a lot with tables imported from Sybase ... Maybe it will be not > a big fault if I will say that it is an Excel bug ... > > Regards > > Tomas > I remember importing data from Excel/Windows into Excel/Mac... The dates changed with 4 years+1day - the 1904 bug Very rewarding when you send out certificates that mention people's date of birth! -- Guy using dutch OOo 2.3 m221 on a iMac Intel DualCore Tiger and brazilian OOo 2.3 RC 3 on a G4 PPC Powerbook Tiger -- please reply only to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dodoes can't afford to have headaches
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Michael Adams wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 20:07:52 -0500 John W. Kennedy wrote: Alexandro Colorado wrote: But corporate world has to align to standards like for example labor law which is kind of a standard practice. A4 or ISO9000 are also standards and many other things in corporate world are standard. OpenDocument uses the only office document standard for office exchange document. Exactly how is that disturbing? The 24-hour clock is not a standard in civilian America, and is not likely to be one in the foreseeable future. Answerimng this and your other post: I do not disagree that there is a bug in the way OpenOffice.org interprets Microsoft Office formatted data. Never did. [Agreeing with all I removed from here, no need to repeat :-)] Following my memories from the times I used MS Excel - it always messed up the dates, not only in files imported from OOo Calc, also in imported CVS, TXT and others, often also in XLS files imported from computers using different locales or probably also diff. version of Excel. I esp. suffered a lot with tables imported from Sybase ... Maybe it will be not a big fault if I will say that it is an Excel bug ... Regards Tomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 20:07:52 -0500 John W. Kennedy wrote: > Alexandro Colorado wrote: > > But corporate world has to align to standards like for example labor > > law which is kind of a standard practice. A4 or ISO9000 are also > > standards and many other things in corporate world are standard. > > OpenDocument uses the only office document standard for office > > exchange document. Exactly how is that disturbing? > > The 24-hour clock is not a standard in civilian America, and is not > likely to be one in the foreseeable future. > Answerimng this and your other post: I do not disagree that there is a bug in the way OpenOffice.org interprets Microsoft Office formatted data. Never did. I do however have thoughts on your above statement: US companies that deal with the government will be required often to use times in a 24-hour notation. Think Northrop, Grumman, Boing etc. US companies wishing to trade oversees will be required to use a 24-hour notation by organisations they trade with, and eventually betweeen themselves. I am also aware that the commonly used date format in the USA is 11/24/07 whereas here in New Zealand it is 24/11/07. Similarly i am aware that the man on the street in the USA has a resistance to change: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States but it is steadily occurring. Looking at the time notation on the top of this email, I wonder what your email headers say if you post yourself an email. So with the digital clock steadily replacing the circular dial - time will tell, or "This Too Shall Pass." I must however admit that all my points are rhetorical. Merely a reason to ponder. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Michael Adams wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:03:53 -0500 Champion, Patrick wrote: Writer messes up date formats of Word documents with am/pm formats. I can not use it to work on our corporate files because it messes up the date formats. This is important when you have project dates in documents and get garbage. Please consider correcting this bug by 2.4 version. I would even consider helping out if I also wasn't completing my Masters in statistics. Consider talking your company into using the international ISO date formats which prevent personal interpretation messing with time. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html For the present, at least, the 24-hour clock is simply not on the tapis in the US, outside of the military. And "personal interpretation" is not at stake here; the problem appears to be a flat-out bug in OOo's Excel-import code. -- John W. Kennedy "The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all." -- G. K. Chesterton. "The Man Who Was Thursday" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Alexandro Colorado wrote: But corporate world has to align to standards like for example labor law which is kind of a standard practice. A4 or ISO9000 are also standards and many other things in corporate world are standard. OpenDocument uses the only office document standard for office exchange document. Exactly how is that disturbing? The 24-hour clock is not a standard in civilian America, and is not likely to be one in the foreseeable future. -- John W. Kennedy "The grand art mastered the thudding hammer of Thor And the heart of our lord Taliessin determined the war." -- Charles Williams. "Mount Badon" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
RANT WARNING
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:18:12 -0500
Champion, Patrick wrote:
> I thought one of OpenOffice.org's claims to fame was the ability to
> have compatibility with Microsoft Word.
Actually many people try to claim that, i don't. I claim it is better in
many ways. If it trieds to duplicate Microsoft office it would always be
an also-ran.
> You will find most business
> people like being able to specify the date and time a file was
> printed.
And being aware of your immediate problem i suggested a solution to
that.
> For OpenOffice to say, "screw what people do, we will
> dictate your business practices" seems pretty arrogant.
First of all, i am not OpenOffice, as far as i am aware openoffice is a
company in holland that makes the excellent bluefish html editor.
Neither am i an employee of OpenOffice.org or even a representative of
OpenOffice.org. I am a bloke on the end of a computer that saw you had a
problem (you asked for help on an open mailing list that anyone can
join) and suggested an alternative that you may not have previously
thought of. As a web author the way i see it the sooner that all
companies realise they are working in the global village environment and
start talking the global language to each other the better. There, you
made me explain my intentions. Are they as you read them?
As for the rest of your sentence. I honestly don't know whos pulling a
Cartman here ("Screw you guys, i'm going home").
> This bug is pretty much in one's face when one tries to read a Change
> Request form in Word XP format that has on the front page the date of
> creation, update, and printing and one sees the dates reordered or
> replaced by some MERGE... string, or with the 1p/2p strings at the
> end. This is what would cause any of my coworkers to assume that
> OpenOffice is completely unreliable and to be avoided at all costs.
> How am I going to convince them when such a simple thing is broken?
>
It is not an "in one's face" bug. It is actually the first time i have
heard of it on this list, and i have been _contributing_ to
this list, somewhat sporadically, for a few of years now. Not only
that, but i see the issue only has one vote, and that one vote (probably
not yours) is hardly likely to get a fix timetabled real soon. The issue
IS however maked P3, which means:
"P3 marks non-trivial problems which probably affect a noticeable number
of users. Issues with this priority must be fixed before the target
release (see Target milestone) Not fixing them for the target release
must be justified by a superordinate rule."
Your company has made the decision to adopt a proprietary closed source
office suite. The save format of this office suite is also closed. The
only way OpenOffice.org has any compatability at all with .DOC format is
by reverse engineering it. I could make an arguement that would hold
water in a court of law that says the problem is either Microsofts or
"Yours" because you were foolish enough to adopt a closed environment in
the first instance!
If your company and others was prepared to front up even some of the
money they have paid for Microsoft Office licences over the last 5 years
you could probably get anything fixed you damn well like. All i have
seen at present is a whinge followed by escalating abuse.
Did you actually expect me to answer saying "Yes sir based on your
contribution of, let's see, NOTHING, we will fix this for you straight
away". Stop throwing the teddy out of the crib.
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:53 PM
> To: discuss@openoffice.org
> Cc: Champion, Patrick
> Subject: Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next
> major release
>
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:03:53 -0500
> Champion, Patrick wrote:
>
> > Writer messes up date formats of Word documents with am/pm formats.
> > I can not use it to work on our corporate files because it messes up
> > the date formats. This is important when you have project dates in
> > documents and get garbage.
> >
> > Please consider correcting this bug by 2.4 version. I would even
> > consider helping out if I also wasn't completing my Masters in
> > statistics.
> >
>
> Consider talking your company into using the international ISO date
> formats which prevent personal interpretation messing with time.
> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
>
> --
> Michael
>
> All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things
> shall be well
>
> - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> This e-mail and any attachments contain information which may be
> confidential or pri
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
On 2007-11-21 20:31:47, jonathon wrote: > Mike wrote: > > >, then Open Office should not be telling users that they have to > adapt to some arbitrary standard. > > ISO standards are not arbitrary. (At least, in theory they aren't > arbitrary.) > > Suggesting that one use an ISO standard instead of an arbitrary, > non-standard, unit is a reasonable request. > > xan > > jonathon Perhaps what Mike means is that while the ISO standard exists, his company has a large number of documents in which people have used whatever format they liked (randomly?) inputting the date info, and that OOo displays the dates differently. He might also find that such documents written in MSO 98 professional (or earlier) sometimes exhibit a similar problem when brought up in MSO 2003 on XP. :-/ Just my $0.02 worth (actually less than that due to inflation) - Bill -- william w. austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] "life is just another phase i'm going through. this time, anyway ..." - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Mike wrote: >, then Open Office should not be telling users that they have to adapt to some arbitrary standard. ISO standards are not arbitrary. (At least, in theory they aren't arbitrary.) Suggesting that one use an ISO standard instead of an arbitrary, non-standard, unit is a reasonable request. xan jonathon -- OOo can not correct for incompetence in creating documents from MSO. Furthermore,OOo can not compensate for the defective and flawed security measures used by Microsoft. As such, before using this product for exams that require faulty and defective software, ensure that you will not be unjustly penalized for the incompetence of the organization that requires the use of software that is known to be flawed, defective, bug-ridden, and fails to meet ISO file format standards. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
But corporate world has to align to standards like for example labor law which is kind of a standard practice. A4 or ISO9000 are also standards and many other things in corporate world are standard. OpenDocument uses the only office document standard for office exchange document. Exactly how is that disturbing? On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 11:28 -0800, Mike White wrote: > Personally, I find this response a bit disturbing. If Open Office is trying > to take over corporate World, then Open Office should not be telling users > that they have to adapt to some arbitrary standard. In my thoughts that is > unacceptable. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:53 AM > To: discuss@openoffice.org > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major > release > > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:03:53 -0500 > Champion, Patrick wrote: > > > Writer messes up date formats of Word documents with am/pm formats. > > I can not use it to work on our corporate files because it messes up > > the date formats. This is important when you have project dates in > > documents and get garbage. > > > > Please consider correcting this bug by 2.4 version. I would even > > consider helping out if I also wasn't completing my Masters in > > statistics. > > > > Consider talking your company into using the international ISO date > formats which prevent personal interpretation messing with time. > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html > > -- > Michael > > All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall > be well > > - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Alexandro Colorado OpenOffice.org Español IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
RE: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Le mercredi 21 novembre 2007 à 11:28 -0800, Mike White a écrit : > Personally, I find this response a bit disturbing. If Open Office is trying > to take over corporate World, then Open Office should not be telling users > that they have to adapt to some arbitrary standard. This is not an arbitrary standard and it was written for the corporate world by huge corporations. Which does not mean dates in legacy quirky non international formats should not be handled. But anything that rejected ISO 8601 does not play in the big corporate space. -- Nicolas Mailhot signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
RE: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Personally, I find this response a bit disturbing. If Open Office is trying to take over corporate World, then Open Office should not be telling users that they have to adapt to some arbitrary standard. In my thoughts that is unacceptable. Mike -Original Message- From: Michael Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:53 AM To: discuss@openoffice.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:03:53 -0500 Champion, Patrick wrote: > Writer messes up date formats of Word documents with am/pm formats. > I can not use it to work on our corporate files because it messes up > the date formats. This is important when you have project dates in > documents and get garbage. > > Please consider correcting this bug by 2.4 version. I would even > consider helping out if I also wasn't completing my Masters in > statistics. > Consider talking your company into using the international ISO date formats which prevent personal interpretation messing with time. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:03:53 -0500 Champion, Patrick wrote: > Writer messes up date formats of Word documents with am/pm formats. > I can not use it to work on our corporate files because it messes up > the date formats. This is important when you have project dates in > documents and get garbage. > > Please consider correcting this bug by 2.4 version. I would even > consider helping out if I also wasn't completing my Masters in > statistics. > Consider talking your company into using the international ISO date formats which prevent personal interpretation messing with time. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[discuss] Will Bug 48822 be worked on before the next major release
Writer messes up date formats of Word documents with am/pm formats. I can not use it to work on our corporate files because it messes up the date formats. This is important when you have project dates in documents and get garbage. Please consider correcting this bug by 2.4 version. I would even consider helping out if I also wasn't completing my Masters in statistics. Patrick Champion [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information which may be confidential or privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is without authorization and is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify us by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your computer system. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
