Re: [SH-Discuss] Paint related items for everyone to pick and choose from

[Robert Rybicki]

Are there any silver paint pens?  I could really use a couple. 

Rob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2014, at 2:27 AM, Craig Bergdorf  wrote:
> 
> That's what the (classic) donation pile is for, I'll be there for my open 
> hours Sunday: Noon to 3
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2014 12:21 AM, "Byron Moran"  wrote:
>> G, I am actually in the process of painting part of my apartment as we 
>> speak. I hope no one minds if I swoop in and grab a couple of these 
>> tomorrow. When will the space be open for me to do so? Super helpful!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM, gs volt  wrote:
>>> Tonight I brought in two boxes of paint rollers (photo of 1box):
>>> 
>>> http://imgur.com/kqBWqPb
>>> 
>>> At the moment, these two boxes are on top of the power wheels racing car's 
>>> red cover in front of the back bathroom.
>>> 
>>> Also, brought in some Duplicolor Scratch Fix All-in-1 pens (approx. 100):
>>> 
>>> http://imgur.com/DlxbDyy 
>>> 
>>> These "pens" are of various colors of automobiles by make and have been 
>>> stored at room temperature on the lower shelf next to our 3d printer. 
>>> Typically I learned that folks that have scratches on their cars, can use 
>>> them to fix them quickly.
>>> 
>>> If anyone has use for them, feel free to take them home.
>>> 
>>> On opening day, I brought some paint in a Dole banana box that is in the 
>>> machine room area somewhere that can be used for projects as well.
>>> 
>>> All this stuff is coming direct from Sherwin-Williams' give-aways they 
>>> sometimes have for anyone to take at no charge! Per item, in their store 
>>> these things retail for a quite a lot. I'm glad to share all this with 
>>> everyone at Synhak. 
>>> 
>>> Those members who would like to learn how to paint, can consider learning 
>>> it from those that do I'd say, now that we have a huge number of these 
>>> rollers. Perhaps we can have a "let's paint synhak's walls that need paint" 
>>> day!
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> G
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@synhak.org
>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thanks, 
>> 
>> Byron D Moran
>> Software Development Consultant
>> (330)992-9766
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [SH-Discuss] Paint related items for everyone to pick and choose from

[Craig Bergdorf]

That's what the (classic) donation pile is for, I'll be there for my open
hours Sunday: Noon to 3
On Mar 22, 2014 12:21 AM, "Byron Moran"  wrote:

> G, I am actually in the process of painting part of my apartment as we
> speak. I hope no one minds if I swoop in and grab a couple of these
> tomorrow. When will the space be open for me to do so? Super helpful!
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM, gs volt  wrote:
>
>> Tonight I brought in two boxes of paint rollers (photo of 1box):
>>
>> http://imgur.com/kqBWqPb
>>
>> At the moment, these two boxes are on top of the power wheels racing
>> car's red cover in front of the back bathroom.
>>
>> Also, brought in some Duplicolor Scratch Fix All-in-1 pens (approx. 100):
>>
>> http://imgur.com/DlxbDyy
>>
>> These "pens" are of various colors of automobiles by make and have been
>> stored at room temperature on the lower shelf next to our 3d printer.
>> Typically I learned that folks that have scratches on their cars, can use
>> them to fix them quickly.
>>
>> If anyone has use for them, feel free to take them home.
>>
>> On opening day, I brought some paint in a Dole banana box that is in the
>> machine room area somewhere that can be used for projects as well.
>>
>> All this stuff is coming direct from Sherwin-Williams' give-aways they
>> sometimes have for anyone to take at no charge! Per item, in their store
>> these things retail for a quite a lot. I'm glad to share all this with
>> everyone at Synhak.
>>
>> Those members who would like to learn how to paint, can consider learning
>> it from those that do I'd say, now that we have a huge number of these
>> rollers. Perhaps we can have a "let's paint synhak's walls that need paint"
>> day!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> G
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@synhak.org
>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Byron D Moran
> Software Development Consultant
> (330)992-9766
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@synhak.org
> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
___
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Re: [SH-Discuss] Paint related items for everyone to pick and choose from

[Byron Moran]

G, I am actually in the process of painting part of my apartment as we
speak. I hope no one minds if I swoop in and grab a couple of these
tomorrow. When will the space be open for me to do so? Super helpful!


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM, gs volt  wrote:

> Tonight I brought in two boxes of paint rollers (photo of 1box):
>
> http://imgur.com/kqBWqPb
>
> At the moment, these two boxes are on top of the power wheels racing car's
> red cover in front of the back bathroom.
>
> Also, brought in some Duplicolor Scratch Fix All-in-1 pens (approx. 100):
>
> http://imgur.com/DlxbDyy
>
> These "pens" are of various colors of automobiles by make and have been
> stored at room temperature on the lower shelf next to our 3d printer.
> Typically I learned that folks that have scratches on their cars, can use
> them to fix them quickly.
>
> If anyone has use for them, feel free to take them home.
>
> On opening day, I brought some paint in a Dole banana box that is in the
> machine room area somewhere that can be used for projects as well.
>
> All this stuff is coming direct from Sherwin-Williams' give-aways they
> sometimes have for anyone to take at no charge! Per item, in their store
> these things retail for a quite a lot. I'm glad to share all this with
> everyone at Synhak.
>
> Those members who would like to learn how to paint, can consider learning
> it from those that do I'd say, now that we have a huge number of these
> rollers. Perhaps we can have a "let's paint synhak's walls that need paint"
> day!
>
> Regards,
>
> G
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@synhak.org
> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



-- 
Thanks,

Byron D Moran
Software Development Consultant
(330)992-9766
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[SH-Discuss] Paint related items for everyone to pick and choose from

[gs volt]

Tonight I brought in two boxes of paint rollers (photo of 1box):

http://imgur.com/kqBWqPb

At the moment, these two boxes are on top of the power wheels racing car's
red cover in front of the back bathroom.

Also, brought in some Duplicolor Scratch Fix All-in-1 pens (approx. 100):

http://imgur.com/DlxbDyy

These "pens" are of various colors of automobiles by make and have been
stored at room temperature on the lower shelf next to our 3d printer.
Typically I learned that folks that have scratches on their cars, can use
them to fix them quickly.

If anyone has use for them, feel free to take them home.

On opening day, I brought some paint in a Dole banana box that is in the
machine room area somewhere that can be used for projects as well.

All this stuff is coming direct from Sherwin-Williams' give-aways they
sometimes have for anyone to take at no charge! Per item, in their store
these things retail for a quite a lot. I'm glad to share all this with
everyone at Synhak.

Those members who would like to learn how to paint, can consider learning
it from those that do I'd say, now that we have a huge number of these
rollers. Perhaps we can have a "let's paint synhak's walls that need paint"
day!

Regards,

G
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Re: [SH-Discuss] request for 3D printer info

[Andrew Buczko]

I will be at the Robot building thingy tomorrow.

If not then, it's ok. we can get together some other time for some 3D
printing


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:

> Tim,
>
> Does Paul use a drone and camera to do the aerial photos or a real,
> full-size helicopter?
>
> Do you know why he does IR photos?
>
> Looking for drug dealers/growers with heat lamps?
>
> Paul can email Torrie, Andy, or Chris Neer about the 3D printer.
>
> Better yet, invite him to SH for a tour and a chat.
>
> Philip
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) <
> tim.see...@psangelus.com> wrote:
>
>>  Paul Gray saw the robotics flyer and called me with questions about
>> SYN/HAK's 3D printer.
>>
>> Can someone knowledgeable about the 3D printer call him on his cell
>> 330-554-2829?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S. Paul makes his living doing aerial infrared photos of roof tops.
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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[SH-Discuss] Happy birthday to Alex!

[Justin Herman]

Hope you had a great day!
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Re: [SH-Discuss] Robotics club meet question

[Steve Radonich IV]

I believe it was noon

> From: martinpinks...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 19:22:11 -0400
> To: discuss@synhak.org
> Subject: [SH-Discuss] Robotics club meet question
> 
> Hey,
> What time does the robotics club meeting start tomorrow ?
> Please reply to my email.
> martinpinks...@gmail.com
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Take Care & Have fun Always.
> Martin Pinkston RN
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[SH-Discuss] Robotics club meet question

[Martin Pinkston]

Hey,
What time does the robotics club meeting start tomorrow ?
Please reply to my email.
martinpinks...@gmail.com

Thanks.

Take Care & Have fun Always.
Martin Pinkston RN
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[SH-Discuss] Proposal: Blocking of a Proposal/Membership Application

[Steve Radonich IV]

This is an idea I came up with and posted originally in Torrie's thread, but I 
feel that it will get more attention and feed back if in it's own topic. I am 
looking for any feedback from the membership, or those who are interested, on 
how I can improve it or re-word it to get rid of any vague areas. I will 
copy/paste it as well as link to the PDF.
You can find the better formatted and easier to read PDF version here: 
http://ubuntuone.com/2FaD11sRVOEzUOObTDvq0P






 1.) Membership applications or
Proposals may be accepted by the Membership of SYNHAK aslong as 
no
Member, in good standing, blocks any such action. If a SYNHAK Member,
in  good standing, wishes to block a Membership application or 
Proposal the reason to  block must fall under one of the 
following
categories:



A.) Make a specific reference to any
violation of SYNHAK Code, Policy or By-Laws that 
the Proposal or
potential Member might be in conflict with
B.) Make a specific reference to any
violations of 26 US Code Section 501(c)(3) or   Section 
509(a)(2)
C.) Make a specific reference to any
violations of Federal, State, or Local law or   
regulations that
are applicable
D.) If it is a Proposal, make an
alternate Proposal, or modification to the Proposal in  
question,
that aims to correct any issues with the current one
E.) If it is a Membership
application, explain verifiable evidence as to why that person
does not deserve to be a Member based on any 
personal or
professionalexperience you have with the 
person in question



Failure to meet any of the criteria
above would result in the Proposal or Membership applicationprocess
to continue as stated in the SYNHAK By-Laws.



2.) Should the preceding criteria be
met the issues should be discussed among the attending  
membership
at the meeting until no further constructive comments/opinions are
made,   and the discussion continued on the member mail list in 
the
week leading up to the next meeting.

3.) During the following meeting (the
“2nd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:

A.) If all issues or complaints have
been properly dealt with, and the Member or 
Members, in good
standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application  
or
Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
By-Laws.



B.) If however, the Member or
Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block  
due to
their belief their reasons stated in the previous meeting were not
properlyaddressed. The Membership application 
or Proposal will
be blocked for another  week with further discussion at 
the
meeting with the Members in attendance, and on the members 
mail
list.



4.)  During the following meeting (the
“3rd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:



A.) If all issues or complaints have
been properly dealt with, and the Member or 
Members, in good
standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application  
or
Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
By-Laws.



B.) If however, the Member or
Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block  
due to
their belief their reasons stated in the previous meetings were not
properlyaddressed the following will take place:




I.) A final discussion period will
take place where all further issues will be 
discussed until
either:



1.) A consensus is met in favor of,
or against, the Membership application  or 
Proposal.
or



2.) 15% or more of the attending
Membership move to have a show of   
hands of those in favor of,
or against, the Membership application  or  
Proposal. The
following can happen based on the show of   
hands:



a.) If 86% or more of the
Membership in attendance is in favor of 
the Membership
application or Proposal then the process is 
to continue as
stated in the SYNHAK By-Laws.
  

Re: [SH-Discuss] request for 3D printer info

[Philip P. Patnode]

Tim,

Does Paul use a drone and camera to do the aerial photos or a real,
full-size helicopter?

Do you know why he does IR photos?

Looking for drug dealers/growers with heat lamps?

Paul can email Torrie, Andy, or Chris Neer about the 3D printer.

Better yet, invite him to SH for a tour and a chat.

Philip


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) <
tim.see...@psangelus.com> wrote:

>  Paul Gray saw the robotics flyer and called me with questions about
> SYN/HAK's 3D printer.
>
> Can someone knowledgeable about the 3D printer call him on his cell
> 330-554-2829?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> P.S. Paul makes his living doing aerial infrared photos of roof tops.
>
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Re: [SH-Discuss] Wild "Rover"

[Philip P. Patnode]

The more you know


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Martin Pinkston
wrote:

> I think it was suppose to be a play on words regarding my "Rover".
> That 3 wheeled R/C trike I brought to the meeting.
>
>
> Take Care & Have fun Always.
> Martin Pinkston RN
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[SH-Discuss] request for 3D printer info

[Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron)]

Paul Gray saw the robotics flyer and called me with questions about SYN/HAK's 
3D printer.
Can someone knowledgeable about the 3D printer call him on his cell 
330-554-2829?
Thanks

P.S. Paul makes his living doing aerial infrared photos of roof tops.
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Re: [SH-Discuss] Wild "Rover"

[Martin Pinkston]

I think it was suppose to be a play on words regarding my "Rover".
That 3 wheeled R/C trike I brought to the meeting.


Take Care & Have fun Always.
Martin Pinkston RN
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Re: [SH-Discuss] crt monitors?

[Philip P. Patnode]

CB

Again, thanks!

I will be at SH on Sunday, if the building is open and occupied.

The father is coming to SH on Tuesday for a quick tour and to pick up
whatever equipment is ready for delivery.

PPP


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Craig Bergdorf  wrote:

> I got a pair of black ones on the way (crt's mfgd post-lcd monitors being
> a thing)
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for your offer.
>>
>> The family father (Bob) will be coming to SH on Tuesday evening to pick
>> up one or two computers and one or two monitors, depending on what is ready
>> for delivery.
>>
>> Please bring the monitor to SH and I will cast a spell on it to see if I
>> can improve the brightness level.
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:37 PM, a l  wrote:
>>
>>> I've got one that I haven't touched in a few years. IIRC the brightness
>>> isn't what it used to be. I'll test it out to make sure it's not terribly
>>> yellow and if it's still usable I'll bring it in.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Andrew L
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Philip P. Patnode 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Does SH or any SH member or Discuss List reader have one or two good
 17in/19in CRT monitors that can be donated to a local family for use by
 their four middle/high school daughters?

 I am donating two refurbished P4 computers, with a keyboard and mouse
 for each, to the family.

 If you have one or two, bring it/them to SH and I will make them
 disappear.

 Reply by email or poke me with a sharp stick at the next meeting.

 Thanks!

 Philip



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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [SH-Discuss] crt monitors?

[Craig Bergdorf]

I got a pair of black ones on the way (crt's mfgd post-lcd monitors being a
thing)


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Thank you for your offer.
>
> The family father (Bob) will be coming to SH on Tuesday evening to pick up
> one or two computers and one or two monitors, depending on what is ready
> for delivery.
>
> Please bring the monitor to SH and I will cast a spell on it to see if I
> can improve the brightness level.
>
> Philip
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:37 PM, a l  wrote:
>
>> I've got one that I haven't touched in a few years. IIRC the brightness
>> isn't what it used to be. I'll test it out to make sure it's not terribly
>> yellow and if it's still usable I'll bring it in.
>>
>> regards,
>> Andrew L
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Philip P. Patnode 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does SH or any SH member or Discuss List reader have one or two good
>>> 17in/19in CRT monitors that can be donated to a local family for use by
>>> their four middle/high school daughters?
>>>
>>> I am donating two refurbished P4 computers, with a keyboard and mouse
>>> for each, to the family.
>>>
>>> If you have one or two, bring it/them to SH and I will make them
>>> disappear.
>>>
>>> Reply by email or poke me with a sharp stick at the next meeting.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
>>
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>
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Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting minutes from 2014-03-18

[Torrie Fischer]

On Friday, March 21, 2014 12:45:43 a l wrote:
> I'll clarify what I can:
> >"jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?
> 
>  I'm not sure. There was a brief side discussion and my understanding was
> they are some sort of work related spreadsheet to help monitor project
> progress
> 
> >"Kobol" - variation of Cobol?
> 
> Yes Cobol the programming language, whereas Kobol is a mythical planet in
> the rebooted Battlestar Galactica Universe.
> 
> >"wild rover"  - a computer game?
> 
> It's an irish folk song.
> 
> >Did I miss out on some Free Burritos
> 
> I think Torrie was just discussing her dinner. Not released for public
> consumption.

Correct.

And they were delicious.

> 
> regards,
> Andrew L
> 
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Philip P. Patnode 
wrote:
> > Andrew,
> > 
> > As long as you are on a roll, please "clarify" the following for me =
> > 
> > "jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?
> > 
> > "Kobol" - variation of Cobol?
> > 
> > "wild rover"  - a computer game?
> > 
> > Did I miss out on some free burritos or did Torrie just allude to their
> > existence in a faraway kitchen?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Philip
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:33 PM, a l  wrote:
> >> Hey all,
> >> It's been brought to my attention that what was intended as a
> >> lighthearted expression of jealousy for a cool toy  didn't get recorded
> >> that way in the minutes.
> >> 
> >> >* Alex  - It's, he does it
> >> 
> >> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
> >> * Andy - builds pinball machines
> >> * Justin - Brings cookies
> >> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
> >> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
> >> * Philip - heard about cookies
> >> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
> >> * Becca  - writes jeb sheets
> >> * Dave - Helps to repair the canal
> >> * Steve - Shows up late, but on time
> >> * Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
> >> * Mila - Also a second meeting attender
> >> * Craig - is fine
> >> * Torrie - makes burritos
> >> * Andrew - attends entire meetings today
> >> * Devin - moderates today
> >> * Anthony - Developes software
> >> * Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
> >> * Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
> >> * Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
> >> ** Found out about us through our website
> >> 
> >> To clarify, neither Mike nor his laser keyboard suck. The comment has
> >> been removed from the archived version of the minutes but without
> >> complicated techromancy it is not possible to change the minutes as
> >> displayed in this thread.
> >> Apologies for the poor recording and confusion it caused.
> >> 
> >> regards,
> >> Andrew L
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Phong  wrote:
> >>> Bonjour, hakkers!
> >>> 
> >>> I've noticed that there was a meeting on 2014-03-18 and that the minutes
> >>> are posted. They are visible on the web at
> >>> https://synhak.org/wiki/Meetings/2014-3-18. I've also included them in
> >>> this mail for reading at your leisure:
> >>> 
> >>> {{Infobox_meeting
> >>> 
> >>> |time=7PM
> >>> |date=2014-03-18
> >>> |venue=48 South Summit
> >>> |next=Meetings/2014-3-25
> >>> |previous=Meetings/2014-3-11
> >>> 
> >>> }}
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> == Note-taker ==
> >>> * Open a text editor to take down some '''detailed''' minutes.
> >>> ** Detail is important. If it isn't written down, it never happened.
> >>> * Project the minutes and notes throughout the meeting
> >>> * Follow the instructions in the End of Meeting section at the
> >>> appropriate time.
> >>> * Tell treasu...@synhak.org and secret...@synhak.org if there are new
> >>> members. If the [[treasurer]] is already present, there is no need to
> >>> email
> >>> them.
> >>> 
> >>> == Moderator ==
> >>> * Make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
> >>> * Speak minimally yourself
> >>> * Keep the meeting moving
> >>> * Handle the membership voting process
> >>> * Be sure to thoroughly follow the procedure outlined in this document,
> >>> as the template may occasionally change without warning.
> >>> ** The order of things is also important. We induct new members prior to
> >>> proposals, so that they too may have a say in things.
> >>> 
> >>> == Participants ==
> >>> * Say your name the first time you speak
> >>> * Remain on-topic
> >>> * Remain respectful of other participants
> >>> 
> >>> = Agenda =
> >>> 
> >>> * '''Note Taker:''' Andrew L
> >>> * '''Moderator:''' Devin
> >>> 
> >>> == Introduction and Names ==
> >>> 
> >>> * Invite a knowledgeable member to explain what SYNHAK is about, if
> >>> anyone new is present:
> >>> SYNHAK is an infrastructure provider for people who want to
> >>> make things. SYNHAK provides space, tools, and infrastructure to help
> >>> others learn new skills and create cool things. SYNHAK exists through
> >>> and
> >>> depends on membership dues, donations, and the hard work of individuals
> >>> such as ourselves. Our code of conduct is "Be excellent to each
> >>> other."
> >>> * Round of introductions
> >>> ** What is your name

Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting minutes from 2014-03-18

[Philip P. Patnode]

A

OK, now I know.

Too bad about the burritos.

P


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:45 PM, a l  wrote:

> I'll clarify what I can:
> >"jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?
>  I'm not sure. There was a brief side discussion and my understanding was
> they are some sort of work related spreadsheet to help monitor project
> progress
>
> >"Kobol" - variation of Cobol?
> Yes Cobol the programming language, whereas Kobol is a mythical planet in
> the rebooted Battlestar Galactica Universe.
>
> >"wild rover"  - a computer game?
> It's an irish folk song.
>
> >Did I miss out on some Free Burritos
> I think Torrie was just discussing her dinner. Not released for public
> consumption.
>
> regards,
> Andrew L
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> As long as you are on a roll, please "clarify" the following for me =
>>
>> "jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?
>>
>> "Kobol" - variation of Cobol?
>>
>> "wild rover"  - a computer game?
>>
>> Did I miss out on some free burritos or did Torrie just allude to their
>> existence in a faraway kitchen?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:33 PM, a l  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>> It's been brought to my attention that what was intended as a
>>> lighthearted expression of jealousy for a cool toy  didn't get recorded
>>> that way in the minutes.
>>>
>>> >* Alex  - It's, he does it
>>> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
>>> * Andy - builds pinball machines
>>> * Justin - Brings cookies
>>> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
>>> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
>>> * Philip - heard about cookies
>>> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
>>> * Becca  - writes jeb sheets
>>> * Dave - Helps to repair the canal
>>> * Steve - Shows up late, but on time
>>> * Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
>>> * Mila - Also a second meeting attender
>>> * Craig - is fine
>>> * Torrie - makes burritos
>>> * Andrew - attends entire meetings today
>>> * Devin - moderates today
>>> * Anthony - Developes software
>>> * Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
>>> * Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
>>> * Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
>>> ** Found out about us through our website
>>>
>>> To clarify, neither Mike nor his laser keyboard suck. The comment has
>>> been removed from the archived version of the minutes but without
>>> complicated techromancy it is not possible to change the minutes as
>>> displayed in this thread.
>>> Apologies for the poor recording and confusion it caused.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Andrew L
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Phong  wrote:
>>>
 Bonjour, hakkers!

 I've noticed that there was a meeting on 2014-03-18 and that the
 minutes are posted. They are visible on the web at
 https://synhak.org/wiki/Meetings/2014-3-18. I've also included them in
 this mail for reading at your leisure:

 {{Infobox_meeting
 |time=7PM
 |date=2014-03-18
 |venue=48 South Summit
 |next=Meetings/2014-3-25
 |previous=Meetings/2014-3-11
 }}


 == Note-taker ==
 * Open a text editor to take down some '''detailed''' minutes.
 ** Detail is important. If it isn't written down, it never happened.
 * Project the minutes and notes throughout the meeting
 * Follow the instructions in the End of Meeting section at the
 appropriate time.
 * Tell treasu...@synhak.org and secret...@synhak.org if there are new
 members. If the [[treasurer]] is already present, there is no need to email
 them.

 == Moderator ==
 * Make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
 * Speak minimally yourself
 * Keep the meeting moving
 * Handle the membership voting process
 * Be sure to thoroughly follow the procedure outlined in this document,
 as the template may occasionally change without warning.
 ** The order of things is also important. We induct new members prior
 to proposals, so that they too may have a say in things.

 == Participants ==
 * Say your name the first time you speak
 * Remain on-topic
 * Remain respectful of other participants

 = Agenda =

 * '''Note Taker:''' Andrew L
 * '''Moderator:''' Devin

 == Introduction and Names ==

 * Invite a knowledgeable member to explain what SYNHAK is about, if
 anyone new is present:
 SYNHAK is an infrastructure provider for people who want to
 make things. SYNHAK provides space, tools, and infrastructure to help
 others learn new skills and create cool things. SYNHAK exists through and
 depends on membership dues, donations, and the hard work of individuals
 such as ourselves. Our code of conduct is "Be excellent to each
 other."
 * Round of introductions
 ** What is your name?
 ** What do you do?
 ** If this is your first time, how did you hear about SYNHAK?

 * Alex  - It's, he does it
 * Jeff - doe

Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting minutes from 2014-03-18

[a l]

I'll clarify what I can:
>"jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?
 I'm not sure. There was a brief side discussion and my understanding was
they are some sort of work related spreadsheet to help monitor project
progress

>"Kobol" - variation of Cobol?
Yes Cobol the programming language, whereas Kobol is a mythical planet in
the rebooted Battlestar Galactica Universe.

>"wild rover"  - a computer game?
It's an irish folk song.

>Did I miss out on some Free Burritos
I think Torrie was just discussing her dinner. Not released for public
consumption.

regards,
Andrew L


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> As long as you are on a roll, please "clarify" the following for me =
>
> "jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?
>
> "Kobol" - variation of Cobol?
>
> "wild rover"  - a computer game?
>
> Did I miss out on some free burritos or did Torrie just allude to their
> existence in a faraway kitchen?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Philip
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:33 PM, a l  wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>> It's been brought to my attention that what was intended as a
>> lighthearted expression of jealousy for a cool toy  didn't get recorded
>> that way in the minutes.
>>
>> >* Alex  - It's, he does it
>> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
>> * Andy - builds pinball machines
>> * Justin - Brings cookies
>> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
>> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
>> * Philip - heard about cookies
>> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
>> * Becca  - writes jeb sheets
>> * Dave - Helps to repair the canal
>> * Steve - Shows up late, but on time
>> * Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
>> * Mila - Also a second meeting attender
>> * Craig - is fine
>> * Torrie - makes burritos
>> * Andrew - attends entire meetings today
>> * Devin - moderates today
>> * Anthony - Developes software
>> * Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
>> * Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
>> * Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
>> ** Found out about us through our website
>>
>> To clarify, neither Mike nor his laser keyboard suck. The comment has
>> been removed from the archived version of the minutes but without
>> complicated techromancy it is not possible to change the minutes as
>> displayed in this thread.
>> Apologies for the poor recording and confusion it caused.
>>
>> regards,
>> Andrew L
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Phong  wrote:
>>
>>> Bonjour, hakkers!
>>>
>>> I've noticed that there was a meeting on 2014-03-18 and that the minutes
>>> are posted. They are visible on the web at
>>> https://synhak.org/wiki/Meetings/2014-3-18. I've also included them in
>>> this mail for reading at your leisure:
>>>
>>> {{Infobox_meeting
>>> |time=7PM
>>> |date=2014-03-18
>>> |venue=48 South Summit
>>> |next=Meetings/2014-3-25
>>> |previous=Meetings/2014-3-11
>>> }}
>>>
>>>
>>> == Note-taker ==
>>> * Open a text editor to take down some '''detailed''' minutes.
>>> ** Detail is important. If it isn't written down, it never happened.
>>> * Project the minutes and notes throughout the meeting
>>> * Follow the instructions in the End of Meeting section at the
>>> appropriate time.
>>> * Tell treasu...@synhak.org and secret...@synhak.org if there are new
>>> members. If the [[treasurer]] is already present, there is no need to email
>>> them.
>>>
>>> == Moderator ==
>>> * Make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
>>> * Speak minimally yourself
>>> * Keep the meeting moving
>>> * Handle the membership voting process
>>> * Be sure to thoroughly follow the procedure outlined in this document,
>>> as the template may occasionally change without warning.
>>> ** The order of things is also important. We induct new members prior to
>>> proposals, so that they too may have a say in things.
>>>
>>> == Participants ==
>>> * Say your name the first time you speak
>>> * Remain on-topic
>>> * Remain respectful of other participants
>>>
>>> = Agenda =
>>>
>>> * '''Note Taker:''' Andrew L
>>> * '''Moderator:''' Devin
>>>
>>> == Introduction and Names ==
>>>
>>> * Invite a knowledgeable member to explain what SYNHAK is about, if
>>> anyone new is present:
>>> SYNHAK is an infrastructure provider for people who want to
>>> make things. SYNHAK provides space, tools, and infrastructure to help
>>> others learn new skills and create cool things. SYNHAK exists through and
>>> depends on membership dues, donations, and the hard work of individuals
>>> such as ourselves. Our code of conduct is "Be excellent to each
>>> other."
>>> * Round of introductions
>>> ** What is your name?
>>> ** What do you do?
>>> ** If this is your first time, how did you hear about SYNHAK?
>>>
>>> * Alex  - It's, he does it
>>> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
>>> * Andy - builds pinball machines
>>> * Justin - Brings cookies
>>> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
>>> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
>>> * Philip - heard about cookies
>>> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
>>

Re: [SH-Discuss] crt monitors?

[Philip P. Patnode]

Andrew,

Thank you for your offer.

The family father (Bob) will be coming to SH on Tuesday evening to pick up
one or two computers and one or two monitors, depending on what is ready
for delivery.

Please bring the monitor to SH and I will cast a spell on it to see if I
can improve the brightness level.

Philip


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:37 PM, a l  wrote:

> I've got one that I haven't touched in a few years. IIRC the brightness
> isn't what it used to be. I'll test it out to make sure it's not terribly
> yellow and if it's still usable I'll bring it in.
>
> regards,
> Andrew L
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:
>
>> Does SH or any SH member or Discuss List reader have one or two good
>> 17in/19in CRT monitors that can be donated to a local family for use by
>> their four middle/high school daughters?
>>
>> I am donating two refurbished P4 computers, with a keyboard and mouse for
>> each, to the family.
>>
>> If you have one or two, bring it/them to SH and I will make them
>> disappear.
>>
>> Reply by email or poke me with a sharp stick at the next meeting.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@synhak.org
>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@synhak.org
> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@synhak.org
https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting minutes from 2014-03-18

[Philip P. Patnode]

Andrew,

As long as you are on a roll, please "clarify" the following for me =

"jeb sheets" - laundry for Jeb?

"Kobol" - variation of Cobol?

"wild rover"  - a computer game?

Did I miss out on some free burritos or did Torrie just allude to their
existence in a faraway kitchen?

Thanks!

Philip


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:33 PM, a l  wrote:

> Hey all,
> It's been brought to my attention that what was intended as a lighthearted
> expression of jealousy for a cool toy  didn't get recorded that way in the
> minutes.
>
> >* Alex  - It's, he does it
> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
> * Andy - builds pinball machines
> * Justin - Brings cookies
> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
> * Philip - heard about cookies
> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
> * Becca  - writes jeb sheets
> * Dave - Helps to repair the canal
> * Steve - Shows up late, but on time
> * Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
> * Mila - Also a second meeting attender
> * Craig - is fine
> * Torrie - makes burritos
> * Andrew - attends entire meetings today
> * Devin - moderates today
> * Anthony - Developes software
> * Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
> * Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
> * Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
> ** Found out about us through our website
>
> To clarify, neither Mike nor his laser keyboard suck. The comment has been
> removed from the archived version of the minutes but without complicated
> techromancy it is not possible to change the minutes as displayed in this
> thread.
> Apologies for the poor recording and confusion it caused.
>
> regards,
> Andrew L
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Phong  wrote:
>
>> Bonjour, hakkers!
>>
>> I've noticed that there was a meeting on 2014-03-18 and that the minutes
>> are posted. They are visible on the web at
>> https://synhak.org/wiki/Meetings/2014-3-18. I've also included them in
>> this mail for reading at your leisure:
>>
>> {{Infobox_meeting
>> |time=7PM
>> |date=2014-03-18
>> |venue=48 South Summit
>> |next=Meetings/2014-3-25
>> |previous=Meetings/2014-3-11
>> }}
>>
>>
>> == Note-taker ==
>> * Open a text editor to take down some '''detailed''' minutes.
>> ** Detail is important. If it isn't written down, it never happened.
>> * Project the minutes and notes throughout the meeting
>> * Follow the instructions in the End of Meeting section at the
>> appropriate time.
>> * Tell treasu...@synhak.org and secret...@synhak.org if there are new
>> members. If the [[treasurer]] is already present, there is no need to email
>> them.
>>
>> == Moderator ==
>> * Make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
>> * Speak minimally yourself
>> * Keep the meeting moving
>> * Handle the membership voting process
>> * Be sure to thoroughly follow the procedure outlined in this document,
>> as the template may occasionally change without warning.
>> ** The order of things is also important. We induct new members prior to
>> proposals, so that they too may have a say in things.
>>
>> == Participants ==
>> * Say your name the first time you speak
>> * Remain on-topic
>> * Remain respectful of other participants
>>
>> = Agenda =
>>
>> * '''Note Taker:''' Andrew L
>> * '''Moderator:''' Devin
>>
>> == Introduction and Names ==
>>
>> * Invite a knowledgeable member to explain what SYNHAK is about, if
>> anyone new is present:
>> SYNHAK is an infrastructure provider for people who want to
>> make things. SYNHAK provides space, tools, and infrastructure to help
>> others learn new skills and create cool things. SYNHAK exists through and
>> depends on membership dues, donations, and the hard work of individuals
>> such as ourselves. Our code of conduct is "Be excellent to each
>> other."
>> * Round of introductions
>> ** What is your name?
>> ** What do you do?
>> ** If this is your first time, how did you hear about SYNHAK?
>>
>> * Alex  - It's, he does it
>> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
>> * Andy - builds pinball machines
>> * Justin - Brings cookies
>> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
>> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
>> * Philip - heard about cookies
>> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
>> * Becca  - writes jeb sheets
>> * Dave - Helps to repair the canal
>> * Steve - Shows up late, but on time
>> * Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
>> * Mila - Also a second meeting attender
>> * Craig - is fine
>> * Torrie - makes burritos
>> * Andrew - attends entire meetings today
>> * Devin - moderates today
>> * Anthony - Developes software
>> * Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
>> * Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
>> * Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
>> ** Found out about us through our website
>>
>> == Announcements ==
>>
>> * Any cool new projects? Something you want everyone to know?
>> * Any happenings that people should be aware of?
>> * Computers have multiplied
>> ** 4 laptops for use

Re: [SH-Discuss] crt monitors?

[a l]

I've got one that I haven't touched in a few years. IIRC the brightness
isn't what it used to be. I'll test it out to make sure it's not terribly
yellow and if it's still usable I'll bring it in.

regards,
Andrew L


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Philip P. Patnode wrote:

> Does SH or any SH member or Discuss List reader have one or two good
> 17in/19in CRT monitors that can be donated to a local family for use by
> their four middle/high school daughters?
>
> I am donating two refurbished P4 computers, with a keyboard and mouse for
> each, to the family.
>
> If you have one or two, bring it/them to SH and I will make them disappear.
>
> Reply by email or poke me with a sharp stick at the next meeting.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Philip
>
>
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@synhak.org
> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@synhak.org
https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting minutes from 2014-03-18

[a l]

Hey all,
It's been brought to my attention that what was intended as a lighthearted
expression of jealousy for a cool toy  didn't get recorded that way in the
minutes.

>* Alex  - It's, he does it
* Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
* Andy - builds pinball machines
* Justin - Brings cookies
* Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
* Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
* Philip - heard about cookies
* Tim - Enjoys robotics
* Becca  - writes jeb sheets
* Dave - Helps to repair the canal
* Steve - Shows up late, but on time
* Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
* Mila - Also a second meeting attender
* Craig - is fine
* Torrie - makes burritos
* Andrew - attends entire meetings today
* Devin - moderates today
* Anthony - Developes software
* Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
* Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
* Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
** Found out about us through our website

To clarify, neither Mike nor his laser keyboard suck. The comment has been
removed from the archived version of the minutes but without complicated
techromancy it is not possible to change the minutes as displayed in this
thread.
Apologies for the poor recording and confusion it caused.

regards,
Andrew L



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Phong  wrote:

> Bonjour, hakkers!
>
> I've noticed that there was a meeting on 2014-03-18 and that the minutes
> are posted. They are visible on the web at
> https://synhak.org/wiki/Meetings/2014-3-18. I've also included them in
> this mail for reading at your leisure:
>
> {{Infobox_meeting
> |time=7PM
> |date=2014-03-18
> |venue=48 South Summit
> |next=Meetings/2014-3-25
> |previous=Meetings/2014-3-11
> }}
>
>
> == Note-taker ==
> * Open a text editor to take down some '''detailed''' minutes.
> ** Detail is important. If it isn't written down, it never happened.
> * Project the minutes and notes throughout the meeting
> * Follow the instructions in the End of Meeting section at the appropriate
> time.
> * Tell treasu...@synhak.org and secret...@synhak.org if there are new
> members. If the [[treasurer]] is already present, there is no need to email
> them.
>
> == Moderator ==
> * Make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
> * Speak minimally yourself
> * Keep the meeting moving
> * Handle the membership voting process
> * Be sure to thoroughly follow the procedure outlined in this document, as
> the template may occasionally change without warning.
> ** The order of things is also important. We induct new members prior to
> proposals, so that they too may have a say in things.
>
> == Participants ==
> * Say your name the first time you speak
> * Remain on-topic
> * Remain respectful of other participants
>
> = Agenda =
>
> * '''Note Taker:''' Andrew L
> * '''Moderator:''' Devin
>
> == Introduction and Names ==
>
> * Invite a knowledgeable member to explain what SYNHAK is about, if anyone
> new is present:
> SYNHAK is an infrastructure provider for people who want to
> make things. SYNHAK provides space, tools, and infrastructure to help
> others learn new skills and create cool things. SYNHAK exists through and
> depends on membership dues, donations, and the hard work of individuals
> such as ourselves. Our code of conduct is "Be excellent to each
> other."
> * Round of introductions
> ** What is your name?
> ** What do you do?
> ** If this is your first time, how did you hear about SYNHAK?
>
> * Alex  - It's, he does it
> * Jeff - does 2 meetings in a row
> * Andy - builds pinball machines
> * Justin - Brings cookies
> * Omar - writes how-to guides for the lowest common denomenator
> * Mike - Has a laser keyboard, sucks
> * Philip - heard about cookies
> * Tim - Enjoys robotics
> * Becca  - writes jeb sheets
> * Dave - Helps to repair the canal
> * Steve - Shows up late, but on time
> * Matt - Avoids Kobol, so say we all
> * Mila - Also a second meeting attender
> * Craig - is fine
> * Torrie - makes burritos
> * Andrew - attends entire meetings today
> * Devin - moderates today
> * Anthony - Developes software
> * Jessie - Fiance to Anthony, comes for the amusement value
> * Martin - still roving, plays the wild rover
> * Victor - Attends KSU, works in the tech-center library
> ** Found out about us through our website
>
> == Announcements ==
>
> * Any cool new projects? Something you want everyone to know?
> * Any happenings that people should be aware of?
> * Computers have multiplied
> ** 4 laptops for use
> *** There's one on the desk in the back labeled -Do Not Hack-
>  Don't hack it.
> *** if you have OS preferences let omar know, or install yourself
>  Don't ruin the windows partition
> *** 3 in Palm room,
> ** Lenovo for all sorts of hacking, no holds barred
> *** Located in the Palm room
> ** Keep an eye on Announce@ for laptop sales and pricing
> * Martin brought his rover
> ** build in progress, working boom and camera platform
> *** demo after meeting
> * G brought in paint
> ** all manner

[SH-Discuss] crt monitors?

[Philip P. Patnode]

Does SH or any SH member or Discuss List reader have one or two good
17in/19in CRT monitors that can be donated to a local family for use by
their four middle/high school daughters?

I am donating two refurbished P4 computers, with a keyboard and mouse for
each, to the family.

If you have one or two, bring it/them to SH and I will make them disappear.

Reply by email or poke me with a sharp stick at the next meeting.

Thanks!

Philip
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@synhak.org
https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [SH-Discuss] Hacking the Tuesday Meeting

[Torrie Fischer]

On Friday, March 21, 2014 09:58:12 dave walton wrote:
> "Roberts Rules of Order was designed for people who like meetings and can't
> stand each other. MIBS  SRC3 is
> designed for people who hate meetings, generally get along pretty well, but
> can sometimes get pretty opinionated and obstinate about thorny issues AND
> tend to ramble on at length."
> 
> This is taken from:
> http://wiki.hacdc.org/index.php/MIBS_Simplified_Rules_of_Coordinated_Consens
> us_through_Chaos

This looks incredibly interesting.

Thank you, Dave!

I should also add that my experience with various community driven decision 
making processes based on consensus is limited to my experiences with:

* SYNHAK since 2011
* Noisebridge
* HeatSync Labs
* Sudo Room
* KDE
* GNOME
* Collabora
* Every single FOSS project I've contributed to
* Being head of software development at previous employers
* Agile software development methodologies
* ACM chapter at UA
* UA Ham Club
* OSC Tech Lab

The ones that used Roberts Rules of Order:

* UA student government

Guess which pattern has a better ratio of high quality stuff done to the 
concentration of power.

Other sources and examples are always welcome for discussion.

> 
> I've been involved with groups that use Roberts and groups that use
> concensus. Roberts sucks in comparison.
> 
> -Dave Walton
> 
> On Friday, March 21, 2014, Justin Herman  wrote:
> > Speaking from being on other Boards and public Charity governing
> > bodies
> > 
> > There are rules that exist that permit members to motion to table
> > discussions or to motion to take a decision to committee. Many government
> > bodies use these rules to permit everyone has a voice and topics can stay
> > focused. It sets procedure and sets the rules bodies can work through
> > issues and how they communicate independent views. Many Larger and smaller
> > groups have adopted these rules so they can get moving forward with doing
> > the work they came together to do.
> > 
> > They are the Roberts Rules of Order.
> > 
> > All the rules may not work for us and maybe need tweaked but it is worth a
> > look if you are not familiar with them.
> > 
> > Here is a link to a quick synoposis:
> > http://www.ulm.edu/staffsenate/documents/roberts-rules-of-order.pdf
> > 
> > In addition a president or executive is commonly the one who leads the
> > meeting and ensures that everyone is given a voice. (This is one of the
> > reasons it is required by the state to have a president.) A president's
> > job
> > is not to affect the outcome but to allow others the fair playing field to
> > speak. When motions are presented and seconded they are the person who
> > ensures that procedure is followed. They are not a judge or magistrate and
> > in many groups lacks voting (except in ties) in order to prevent bias.
> > 
> > An adoption of some of these rules and procedures would help to solve the
> > issue of: long meetings, hurt feelings, fear of lack of transparency,
> > public outbursts, and ensure that the group moved forward without being
> > held up for personal reasons.
> > 
> > Justin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Torrie Fischer
> > wrote:> 
> > On Friday, March 21, 2014 03:40:50 a l wrote:
> > > >* Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us
> > 
> > argue
> > 
> > > about internal strife and politics?
> > > 
> > >  I can understand moving internal strife to members@  so we aren't
> > > 
> > > bombarding the general community with our ramblings but big issues and
> > > fundamental disagreements are going to be brought up at meetings which
> > 
> > are
> > 
> > > public. We have people from all walks of life show up out of the blue.
> > > Since we are a public organization interested in transparency I don't
> > > see
> > > the point of sweeping our strife under the rug. Sure we're going to make
> > > mistakes(*http://tinyurl.com/8tjspo4 )*  but
> > > why hide them? So long as we learn from them and don't repeat them
> > 
> > there's
> > 
> > > no shame in it.  If people are concerned with public appearance and not
> > > looking like a bunch of fools with a warehouse all they have to do is
> > > remember   that their emails are public and the internet never forgets.
> > 
> > Right, but I feel that there is a difference between the kind of person
> > who
> > subscribes to discuss@ and the kind of person who shows up on a Tuesday
> > because they heard about us and want to see whats up. The former shows
> > some
> > knowledge of the mechanisms of mailing lists and can understand that
> > meetings
> > are dry, boring, and sometimes inflammatory.
> > 
> > Those who show up on a Tuesday because "Hey, its a meeting, I wonder what
> > it'll be like" almost always leave halfway through the proposals section
> > and
> > end up wandering around the space if we're lucky to have knowledgeable
> > members
> > who want to show them around and don't have a

Re: [SH-Discuss] Hacking the Tuesday Meeting

[Torrie Fischer]

On Friday, March 21, 2014 09:33:54 Justin Herman wrote:
> Speaking from being on other Boards and public Charity governing bodies
> 
> There are rules that exist that permit members to motion to table
> discussions or to motion to take a decision to committee. Many government
> bodies use these rules to permit everyone has a voice and topics can stay
> focused. It sets procedure and sets the rules bodies can work through
> issues and how they communicate independent views. Many Larger and smaller
> groups have adopted these rules so they can get moving forward with doing
> the work they came together to do.

We're not a government...

We're a community who wants to get things done.

What work do we need to do that cannot be done with consensus?

> 
> They are the Roberts Rules of Order.
> 
> All the rules may not work for us and maybe need tweaked but it is worth a
> look if you are not familiar with them.

I am quite familiar with them, and they are very different pattern than 
consensus. We can not use parliamentary procedure, since we're not a 
parliament.

> 
> Here is a link to a quick synoposis:
> http://www.ulm.edu/staffsenate/documents/roberts-rules-of-order.pdf
> 
> In addition a president or executive is commonly the one who leads the
> meeting and ensures that everyone is given a voice. (This is one of the
> reasons it is required by the state to have a president.) A president's job
> is not to affect the outcome but to allow others the fair playing field to
> speak. When motions are presented and seconded they are the person who
> ensures that procedure is followed. They are not a judge or magistrate and
> in many groups lacks voting (except in ties) in order to prevent bias.

A president or executive is an implementation of the Command pattern, which, 
again, is not compatible with SYNHAK.

If SYNHAK ends up having a handful of people dictating what the rules are and 
what we're going to do, that will very quickly kill off the creative spirit of 
the space.

> 
> An adoption of some of these rules and procedures would help to solve the
> issue of: long meetings, hurt feelings, fear of lack of transparency,
> public outbursts, and ensure that the group moved forward without being
> held up for personal reasons.

I believe that the suggestions I've made will also solve those problems. How 
will adopting Robert's rules of order solve the issue of having two people 
able to completely steamroll a field of diverse opinions because one makes a 
motion to vote and another seconds?

That is completely not within the spirit of SYNHAK.

> 
> Justin
> 
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Torrie Fischer 
wrote:
> > On Friday, March 21, 2014 03:40:50 a l wrote:
> > > >* Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us
> > 
> > argue
> > 
> > > about internal strife and politics?
> > > 
> > >  I can understand moving internal strife to members@  so we aren't
> > > 
> > > bombarding the general community with our ramblings but big issues and
> > > fundamental disagreements are going to be brought up at meetings which
> > 
> > are
> > 
> > > public. We have people from all walks of life show up out of the blue.
> > > Since we are a public organization interested in transparency I don't
> > > see
> > > the point of sweeping our strife under the rug. Sure we're going to make
> > > mistakes(*http://tinyurl.com/8tjspo4 )*  but
> > > why hide them? So long as we learn from them and don't repeat them
> > 
> > there's
> > 
> > > no shame in it.  If people are concerned with public appearance and not
> > > looking like a bunch of fools with a warehouse all they have to do is
> > > remember   that their emails are public and the internet never forgets.
> > 
> > Right, but I feel that there is a difference between the kind of person
> > who
> > subscribes to discuss@ and the kind of person who shows up on a Tuesday
> > because they heard about us and want to see whats up. The former shows
> > some
> > knowledge of the mechanisms of mailing lists and can understand that
> > meetings
> > are dry, boring, and sometimes inflammatory.
> > 
> > Those who show up on a Tuesday because "Hey, its a meeting, I wonder what
> > it'll be like" almost always leave halfway through the proposals section
> > and
> > end up wandering around the space if we're lucky to have knowledgeable
> > members
> > who want to show them around and don't have an interest in the discussion.
> > 
> > I also have big issues with sweeping our strife under the rug, but I'm not
> > certain that purposefully cajoling them into watching it is any better.
> > 
> > Perhaps in this case, more controversial issues can be requested to be
> > taken
> > out of the meeting in a separate meeting.
> > 
> > I've sometimes thought about separating the announcements and community
> > project/event discussion from the membership, financials, proposals
> > section of
> > the Tuesday meeting with moving it to another day, but h

Re: [SH-Discuss] Hacking the Tuesday Meeting

[dave walton]

"Roberts Rules of Order was designed for people who like meetings and can't
stand each other. MIBS  SRC3 is
designed for people who hate meetings, generally get along pretty well, but
can sometimes get pretty opinionated and obstinate about thorny issues AND
tend to ramble on at length."

This is taken from:
http://wiki.hacdc.org/index.php/MIBS_Simplified_Rules_of_Coordinated_Consensus_through_Chaos

I've been involved with groups that use Roberts and groups that use
concensus. Roberts sucks in comparison.

-Dave Walton

On Friday, March 21, 2014, Justin Herman  wrote:

> Speaking from being on other Boards and public Charity governing bodies
>
> There are rules that exist that permit members to motion to table
> discussions or to motion to take a decision to committee. Many government
> bodies use these rules to permit everyone has a voice and topics can stay
> focused. It sets procedure and sets the rules bodies can work through
> issues and how they communicate independent views. Many Larger and smaller
> groups have adopted these rules so they can get moving forward with doing
> the work they came together to do.
>
> They are the Roberts Rules of Order.
>
> All the rules may not work for us and maybe need tweaked but it is worth a
> look if you are not familiar with them.
>
> Here is a link to a quick synoposis:
> http://www.ulm.edu/staffsenate/documents/roberts-rules-of-order.pdf
>
> In addition a president or executive is commonly the one who leads the
> meeting and ensures that everyone is given a voice. (This is one of the
> reasons it is required by the state to have a president.) A president's job
> is not to affect the outcome but to allow others the fair playing field to
> speak. When motions are presented and seconded they are the person who
> ensures that procedure is followed. They are not a judge or magistrate and
> in many groups lacks voting (except in ties) in order to prevent bias.
>
> An adoption of some of these rules and procedures would help to solve the
> issue of: long meetings, hurt feelings, fear of lack of transparency,
> public outbursts, and ensure that the group moved forward without being
> held up for personal reasons.
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Torrie Fischer 
> wrote:
>
> On Friday, March 21, 2014 03:40:50 a l wrote:
> > >* Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us
> argue
> >
> > about internal strife and politics?
> >
> >  I can understand moving internal strife to members@  so we aren't
> > bombarding the general community with our ramblings but big issues and
> > fundamental disagreements are going to be brought up at meetings which
> are
> > public. We have people from all walks of life show up out of the blue.
> > Since we are a public organization interested in transparency I don't see
> > the point of sweeping our strife under the rug. Sure we're going to make
> > mistakes(*http://tinyurl.com/8tjspo4 )*  but
> > why hide them? So long as we learn from them and don't repeat them
> there's
> > no shame in it.  If people are concerned with public appearance and not
> > looking like a bunch of fools with a warehouse all they have to do is
> > remember   that their emails are public and the internet never forgets.
>
> Right, but I feel that there is a difference between the kind of person who
> subscribes to discuss@ and the kind of person who shows up on a Tuesday
> because they heard about us and want to see whats up. The former shows some
> knowledge of the mechanisms of mailing lists and can understand that
> meetings
> are dry, boring, and sometimes inflammatory.
>
> Those who show up on a Tuesday because "Hey, its a meeting, I wonder what
> it'll be like" almost always leave halfway through the proposals section
> and
> end up wandering around the space if we're lucky to have knowledgeable
> members
> who want to show them around and don't have an interest in the discussion.
>
> I also have big issues with sweeping our strife under the rug, but I'm not
> certain that purposefully cajoling them into watching it is any better.
>
> Perhaps in this case, more controversial issues can be requested to be
> taken
> out of the meeting in a separate meeting.
>
> I've sometimes thought about separating the announcements and community
> project/event discussion from the membership, financials, proposals
> section of
> the Tuesday meeting with moving it to another day, but have been unable to
> think of a good approach.
>
> >
> > >* Meetings take way too freakin' long
> >
> > Meetings only go on forever when there are things that need
> > discussing/hashing out. I know everyone would have been happier if the
> > meeting on Tuesday hadn't gone on for 3 hours, but nothing would have
> > gotten solved. I would guesstimate that the average meeting takes an
> hour.
> > There are just as many 7 minute meetings as there are 3 hour meetings.
> > I'm not entirely 

Re: [SH-Discuss] Hacking the Tuesday Meeting

[Justin Herman]

Speaking from being on other Boards and public Charity governing bodies

There are rules that exist that permit members to motion to table
discussions or to motion to take a decision to committee. Many government
bodies use these rules to permit everyone has a voice and topics can stay
focused. It sets procedure and sets the rules bodies can work through
issues and how they communicate independent views. Many Larger and smaller
groups have adopted these rules so they can get moving forward with doing
the work they came together to do.

They are the Roberts Rules of Order.

All the rules may not work for us and maybe need tweaked but it is worth a
look if you are not familiar with them.

Here is a link to a quick synoposis:
http://www.ulm.edu/staffsenate/documents/roberts-rules-of-order.pdf

In addition a president or executive is commonly the one who leads the
meeting and ensures that everyone is given a voice. (This is one of the
reasons it is required by the state to have a president.) A president's job
is not to affect the outcome but to allow others the fair playing field to
speak. When motions are presented and seconded they are the person who
ensures that procedure is followed. They are not a judge or magistrate and
in many groups lacks voting (except in ties) in order to prevent bias.

An adoption of some of these rules and procedures would help to solve the
issue of: long meetings, hurt feelings, fear of lack of transparency,
public outbursts, and ensure that the group moved forward without being
held up for personal reasons.

Justin




On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Torrie Fischer wrote:

> On Friday, March 21, 2014 03:40:50 a l wrote:
> > >* Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us
> argue
> >
> > about internal strife and politics?
> >
> >  I can understand moving internal strife to members@  so we aren't
> > bombarding the general community with our ramblings but big issues and
> > fundamental disagreements are going to be brought up at meetings which
> are
> > public. We have people from all walks of life show up out of the blue.
> > Since we are a public organization interested in transparency I don't see
> > the point of sweeping our strife under the rug. Sure we're going to make
> > mistakes(*http://tinyurl.com/8tjspo4 )*  but
> > why hide them? So long as we learn from them and don't repeat them
> there's
> > no shame in it.  If people are concerned with public appearance and not
> > looking like a bunch of fools with a warehouse all they have to do is
> > remember   that their emails are public and the internet never forgets.
>
> Right, but I feel that there is a difference between the kind of person who
> subscribes to discuss@ and the kind of person who shows up on a Tuesday
> because they heard about us and want to see whats up. The former shows some
> knowledge of the mechanisms of mailing lists and can understand that
> meetings
> are dry, boring, and sometimes inflammatory.
>
> Those who show up on a Tuesday because "Hey, its a meeting, I wonder what
> it'll be like" almost always leave halfway through the proposals section
> and
> end up wandering around the space if we're lucky to have knowledgeable
> members
> who want to show them around and don't have an interest in the discussion.
>
> I also have big issues with sweeping our strife under the rug, but I'm not
> certain that purposefully cajoling them into watching it is any better.
>
> Perhaps in this case, more controversial issues can be requested to be
> taken
> out of the meeting in a separate meeting.
>
> I've sometimes thought about separating the announcements and community
> project/event discussion from the membership, financials, proposals
> section of
> the Tuesday meeting with moving it to another day, but have been unable to
> think of a good approach.
>
> >
> > >* Meetings take way too freakin' long
> >
> > Meetings only go on forever when there are things that need
> > discussing/hashing out. I know everyone would have been happier if the
> > meeting on Tuesday hadn't gone on for 3 hours, but nothing would have
> > gotten solved. I would guesstimate that the average meeting takes an
> hour.
> > There are just as many 7 minute meetings as there are 3 hour meetings.
> > I'm not entirely against the idea but I don't see it radically changing
> > things. Maybe I'm wrong.
> > Maybe moving proposal discussion to email will allow people to argue
> their
> > point better, but if we've got the concerned parties in the same place at
> > the same time why force them to take it to their inbox? There was a
> > proposal some time ago to require people or their proxy to be present at
> > the meeting in order to make decisions on proposals. By moving all
> > discussion and blocking ability to the digital world we circumvent this
> > requirement. We are a physical space made up of real people. We have to
> > interact with each other at some point.
>
> I think that this w

Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Consensus with Limited Blocking

[Torrie Fischer]

Again, sorry for a second reply; I should start using drafts...

I think that I understand the concerns of choosing Voting over Consensus, and 
that it boils down to a perception that we need to make decisions quickly.

I feel that it is in SYNHAK's best interest to make high quality decisions 
that practically everyone can support instead of fast decisions that only some 
people can support. There is absolutely nothing keeping a member from leaving 
if they feel that the space is in a rush to ignore their concerns.

A suggestion or list of suggestions of when these quick decisions are needed 
would help me understand better.

On Friday, March 21, 2014 07:48:47 Torrie Fischer wrote:
> On Friday, March 21, 2014 07:23:40 Steve Radonich IV wrote:
> > So I have been reading through this discussion topic and taking in
> > everything that has been said in the debate of Consensus vs Voting. I have
> > given this a lot of thought and feel that I may have come up with a
> > solution to this whole issue. I have tried to keep it in line with
> > sticking
> > to consensus as much as possible, while providing a way after long and
> > careful debate to move forward with a Membership application or Proposal
> > while still having some that disagree. I would love to hear feedback on
> > what everyone thinks of it, and am more than willing to go into further
> > detail about my choice for certain decision in crafting this proposal. I
> > will copy it into the message below, as well as link to a PDF form if you
> > find it too difficult to read in the e-mail. Formatting on the email will
> > probably be messed up so I would recommend looking at the PDF as it make
> > is
> > much easier to read. PDF version is available here:
> > http://ubuntuone.com/2FaD11sRVOEzUOObTDvq0P
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 1.) Membership applications or
> > Proposals may be accepted by the Membership of SYNHAK aslong
> 
> as no
> 
> > Member, in good standing, blocks any such action. If a SYNHAK Member,
> > in  good standing, wishes to block a Membership application or
> > Proposal the reason to  block must fall under one of
> 
> the following
> 
> > categories:
> > A.) Make a specific reference to any
> > 
> > violation of SYNHAK Code, Policy or By-Laws 
that
> 
> the Proposal or
> 
> > potential Member might be in conflict with
> > 
> > B.) Make a specific reference to any
> > 
> > violations of 26 US Code Section 501(c)(3) or
> 
> Section 509(a)(2)
> 
> > C.) Make a specific reference to any
> > 
> > violations of Federal, State, or Local law or
> 
>   regulations that
> 
> > are applicable
> > 
> > D.) If it is a Proposal, make an
> > 
> > alternate Proposal, or modification to the Proposal in
> 
>   question,
> 
> > that aims to correct any issues with the current one
> > 
> > E.) If it is a Membership
> > 
> > application, explain verifiable evidence as to why that person
> > 
> > does not deserve to be a Member based on any
> 
> personal or
> 
> > professionalexperience you have 
with the
> 
> person in question
> 
> > Failure to meet any of the criteria
> > 
> > above would result in the Proposal or Membership application
process
> > to continue as stated in the SYNHAK By-Laws.
> > 
> > 2.) Should the preceding criteria be
> > 
> > met the issues should be discussed among the attending
> 
> membership
> 
> > at the meeting until no further constructive comments/opinions are
> > made,   and the discussion continued on the member
> 
> mail list in the
> 
> > week leading up to the next meeting.
> > 
> > 3.) During the following meeting (the
> > 
> > “2nd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:
> > A.) If all issues or complaints have
> > 
> > been properly dealt with, and the Member or
> 
> Members, in good
> 
> > standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application
> 
>   or
> 
> > Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
> > By-Laws.
> > 
> > B.) If however, the Member or
> > 
> > Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block
> 
>   due to
> 
> > their belief their reasons stated in the previous meeting were not
> > properlyaddressed. The Membership application
> 
> or Proposal will
> 
> > be blocked for another  week with further
> 
> discussion at the
> 
> > meeting with the Members in attendance, and on the 
members
> 
> mail
> 
> > list.
> > 
> > 4.)  During the following meeting (the
> > 
> > “3rd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:
> > A.) If all issues or complaints have
> > 
> > been properly dealt with, and the Member or
> 
> Members, in good
> 
> > standing, withdraw their

Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Consensus with Limited Blocking

[Torrie Fischer]

On Friday, March 21, 2014 07:23:40 Steve Radonich IV wrote:
> So I have been reading through this discussion topic and taking in
> everything that has been said in the debate of Consensus vs Voting. I have
> given this a lot of thought and feel that I may have come up with a
> solution to this whole issue. I have tried to keep it in line with sticking
> to consensus as much as possible, while providing a way after long and
> careful debate to move forward with a Membership application or Proposal
> while still having some that disagree. I would love to hear feedback on
> what everyone thinks of it, and am more than willing to go into further
> detail about my choice for certain decision in crafting this proposal. I
> will copy it into the message below, as well as link to a PDF form if you
> find it too difficult to read in the e-mail. Formatting on the email will
> probably be messed up so I would recommend looking at the PDF as it make is
> much easier to read. PDF version is available here:
> http://ubuntuone.com/2FaD11sRVOEzUOObTDvq0P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.) Membership applications or
> Proposals may be accepted by the Membership of SYNHAK as  long 
as no
> Member, in good standing, blocks any such action. If a SYNHAK Member,
> ingood standing, wishes to block a Membership application or
> Proposal the reason toblock must fall under one of 
the following
> categories:
> 
> 
> 
>   A.) Make a specific reference to any
> violation of SYNHAK Code, Policy or By-Laws   that 
the Proposal or
> potential Member might be in conflict with
>   B.) Make a specific reference to any
> violations of 26 US Code Section 501(c)(3) or 
Section 509(a)(2)
>   C.) Make a specific reference to any
> violations of Federal, State, or Local law or 
regulations that
> are applicable
>   D.) If it is a Proposal, make an
> alternate Proposal, or modification to the Proposal in
question,
> that aims to correct any issues with the current one
>   E.) If it is a Membership
> application, explain verifiable evidence as to why that person
>   does not deserve to be a Member based on any 
personal or
> professional  experience you have with the 
person in question
> 
> 
> 
>   Failure to meet any of the criteria
> above would result in the Proposal or Membership application  process
> to continue as stated in the SYNHAK By-Laws.
> 
> 
> 
>   2.) Should the preceding criteria be
> met the issues should be discussed among the attending
membership
> at the meeting until no further constructive comments/opinions are
> made, and the discussion continued on the member 
mail list in the
> week leading up to the next   meeting.
> 
>   3.) During the following meeting (the
> “2nd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:
> 
>   A.) If all issues or complaints have
> been properly dealt with, and the Member or   
Members, in good
> standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application
or
> Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
> By-Laws.
> 
> 
> 
>   B.) If however, the Member or
> Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block
due to
> their belief their reasons stated in the previous meeting were not
> properly  addressed. The Membership application 
or Proposal will
> be blocked for anotherweek with further 
discussion at the
> meeting with the Members in attendance, and   on the members 
mail
> list.
> 
> 
> 
>   4.)  During the following meeting (the
> “3rd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:
> 
> 
> 
>   A.) If all issues or complaints have
> been properly dealt with, and the Member or   
Members, in good
> standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application
or
> Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
> By-Laws.
> 
> 
> 
>   B.) If however, the Member or
> Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block
due to
> their belief their reasons stated in the previous meetings were not
> properly  addressed the following will take place:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   I.) A final discussion period will
> take place where all further issues will be   
discussed until
> either:
> 
> 
> 
>   1.) A consensus is met in favor of,
> or against, the Membership application  

Re: [SH-Discuss] Hacking the Tuesday Meeting

[Torrie Fischer]

On Friday, March 21, 2014 03:40:50 a l wrote:
> >* Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us argue
> 
> about internal strife and politics?
> 
>  I can understand moving internal strife to members@  so we aren't
> bombarding the general community with our ramblings but big issues and
> fundamental disagreements are going to be brought up at meetings which are
> public. We have people from all walks of life show up out of the blue.
> Since we are a public organization interested in transparency I don't see
> the point of sweeping our strife under the rug. Sure we're going to make
> mistakes(*http://tinyurl.com/8tjspo4 )*  but
> why hide them? So long as we learn from them and don't repeat them there's
> no shame in it.  If people are concerned with public appearance and not
> looking like a bunch of fools with a warehouse all they have to do is
> remember   that their emails are public and the internet never forgets.

Right, but I feel that there is a difference between the kind of person who 
subscribes to discuss@ and the kind of person who shows up on a Tuesday 
because they heard about us and want to see whats up. The former shows some 
knowledge of the mechanisms of mailing lists and can understand that meetings 
are dry, boring, and sometimes inflammatory.

Those who show up on a Tuesday because "Hey, its a meeting, I wonder what 
it'll be like" almost always leave halfway through the proposals section and 
end up wandering around the space if we're lucky to have knowledgeable members 
who want to show them around and don't have an interest in the discussion.

I also have big issues with sweeping our strife under the rug, but I'm not 
certain that purposefully cajoling them into watching it is any better.

Perhaps in this case, more controversial issues can be requested to be taken 
out of the meeting in a separate meeting.

I've sometimes thought about separating the announcements and community 
project/event discussion from the membership, financials, proposals section of 
the Tuesday meeting with moving it to another day, but have been unable to 
think of a good approach.

> 
> >* Meetings take way too freakin' long
> 
> Meetings only go on forever when there are things that need
> discussing/hashing out. I know everyone would have been happier if the
> meeting on Tuesday hadn't gone on for 3 hours, but nothing would have
> gotten solved. I would guesstimate that the average meeting takes an hour.
> There are just as many 7 minute meetings as there are 3 hour meetings.
> I'm not entirely against the idea but I don't see it radically changing
> things. Maybe I'm wrong.
> Maybe moving proposal discussion to email will allow people to argue their
> point better, but if we've got the concerned parties in the same place at
> the same time why force them to take it to their inbox? There was a
> proposal some time ago to require people or their proxy to be present at
> the meeting in order to make decisions on proposals. By moving all
> discussion and blocking ability to the digital world we circumvent this
> requirement. We are a physical space made up of real people. We have to
> interact with each other at some point.

I think that this workflow addresses this. Formal proposals are still required 
to be on discuss@ for at least a week.

Example:

1. Issue is brought up at a meeting
2. After 15 minutes of discussion, consensus is not reached, but everyone 
agrees to move it to a non-discuss@ list
3. The interested parties discuss the issue elsewhere
4. A full proposal is written and submitted to discuss@ on Thursday
5. The proposal is brought up for discussion at the next meeting
6. Nobody blocks it, so it is carried over to the next meeting
7. Nobody has still blocked it, so consensus is reached.

I do understand your argument that this limits proposal discussion to those 
who can e-mail. However, I think that we might be underestimating the people 
involved. I definitely do see three cohorts of members in the last two years:

* Those who come to the weekly meeting just to socialize and really don't 
participate in the discussion or proposals
* Those who come to the weekly meeting just to socialize and really don't 
participate in the discussion or proposals, and they aren't active on the 
governance discussions on the lists
* Those who are deeply engaged in the discussion, proposals, and mailing list 
discussions about proposals

Perhaps an alternative is to decide if an issue is big enough that it warrants 
having a separate meeting for discussion of the issue outside of the weekly 
meeting. Or maybe even a lengthier discussion time.

> 
> regards,
> Andrew L

I greatly appreciate your kind, thoughtful discussion and willingness to 
suggest alternatives. Thank you for you excellence, Andrew.

> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Torrie Fischer
> 
> wrote:
> > Another lengthy mail wherein I try to rouse more discussion about decision
> > making 

Re: [SH-Discuss] Proposal: Consensus with Limited Blocking

[Steve Radonich IV]

So I have been reading through this discussion topic and taking in everything 
that has been said in the debate of Consensus vs Voting. I have given this a 
lot of thought and feel that I may have come up with a solution to this whole 
issue. I have tried to keep it in line with sticking to consensus as much as 
possible, while providing a way after long and careful debate to move forward 
with a Membership application or Proposal while still having some that 
disagree. I would love to hear feedback on what everyone thinks of it, and am 
more than willing to go into further detail about my choice for certain 
decision in crafting this proposal. I will copy it into the message below, as 
well as link to a PDF form if you find it too difficult to read in the e-mail. 
Formatting on the email will probably be messed up so I would recommend looking 
at the PDF as it make is much easier to read.
PDF version is available here: http://ubuntuone.com/2FaD11sRVOEzUOObTDvq0P







1.) Membership applications or
Proposals may be accepted by the Membership of SYNHAK aslong as 
no
Member, in good standing, blocks any such action. If a SYNHAK Member,
in  good standing, wishes to block a Membership application or 
Proposal the reason to  block must fall under one of the 
following
categories:



A.) Make a specific reference to any
violation of SYNHAK Code, Policy or By-Laws that 
the Proposal or
potential Member might be in conflict with
B.) Make a specific reference to any
violations of 26 US Code Section 501(c)(3) or   Section 
509(a)(2)
C.) Make a specific reference to any
violations of Federal, State, or Local law or   
regulations that
are applicable
D.) If it is a Proposal, make an
alternate Proposal, or modification to the Proposal in  
question,
that aims to correct any issues with the current one
E.) If it is a Membership
application, explain verifiable evidence as to why that person
does not deserve to be a Member based on any 
personal or
professionalexperience you have with the 
person in question



Failure to meet any of the criteria
above would result in the Proposal or Membership applicationprocess
to continue as stated in the SYNHAK By-Laws.



2.) Should the preceding criteria be
met the issues should be discussed among the attending  
membership
at the meeting until no further constructive comments/opinions are
made,   and the discussion continued on the member mail list in 
the
week leading up to the next meeting.

3.) During the following meeting (the
“2nd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:

A.) If all issues or complaints have
been properly dealt with, and the Member or 
Members, in good
standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application  
or
Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
By-Laws.



B.) If however, the Member or
Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block  
due to
their belief their reasons stated in the previous meeting were not
properlyaddressed. The Membership application 
or Proposal will
be blocked for another  week with further discussion at 
the
meeting with the Members in attendance, and on the members 
mail
list.



4.)  During the following meeting (the
“3rd meeting”) the issue will be brought up again:



A.) If all issues or complaints have
been properly dealt with, and the Member or 
Members, in good
standing, withdraw their block on a Membership application  
or
Proposal then the process is to continue as stated in the SYNHAK
By-Laws.



B.) If however, the Member or
Members, in good standing, do not withdraw their block  
due to
their belief their reasons stated in the previous meetings were not
properlyaddressed the following will take place:




I.) A final discussion period will
take place where all further issues will be 
discussed until
either:



1.) A consensus is met in favor of,
or against, the Membership application  or 
Proposal.
or



2.) 15% or more of the attending
Membership move to have a show of   
hands of those in favor 

Re: [SH-Discuss] Hacking the Tuesday Meeting

[a l]

>* Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us argue
about internal strife and politics?

 I can understand moving internal strife to members@  so we aren't
bombarding the general community with our ramblings but big issues and
fundamental disagreements are going to be brought up at meetings which are
public. We have people from all walks of life show up out of the blue.
Since we are a public organization interested in transparency I don't see
the point of sweeping our strife under the rug. Sure we're going to make
mistakes(*http://tinyurl.com/8tjspo4 )*  but
why hide them? So long as we learn from them and don't repeat them there's
no shame in it.  If people are concerned with public appearance and not
looking like a bunch of fools with a warehouse all they have to do is
remember   that their emails are public and the internet never forgets.

>* Meetings take way too freakin' long

Meetings only go on forever when there are things that need
discussing/hashing out. I know everyone would have been happier if the
meeting on Tuesday hadn't gone on for 3 hours, but nothing would have
gotten solved. I would guesstimate that the average meeting takes an hour.
There are just as many 7 minute meetings as there are 3 hour meetings.
I'm not entirely against the idea but I don't see it radically changing
things. Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe moving proposal discussion to email will allow people to argue their
point better, but if we've got the concerned parties in the same place at
the same time why force them to take it to their inbox? There was a
proposal some time ago to require people or their proxy to be present at
the meeting in order to make decisions on proposals. By moving all
discussion and blocking ability to the digital world we circumvent this
requirement. We are a physical space made up of real people. We have to
interact with each other at some point.

regards,
Andrew L


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Torrie Fischer
wrote:

> Another lengthy mail wherein I try to rouse more discussion about decision
> making at SYNHAK.
>
> Right now I see two related discussions regarding implementing consensus at
> SYNHAK:
>
> * A separate list for discussion about bureaucracy
> * Blocking can be abused to halt progress
>
> I think that there is a third issue that should be considered, that is
> implied
> by the first that Alex brought up:
>
> * Do we really want to invite the non-interested public to watch us argue
> about internal strife and politics?
>
> And a fourth that I think 100% of the membership wants to solve:
>
> * Meetings take way too freakin' long
>
> Lets face it, meetings aren't friendly to people who just want to visit the
> space and see what we've got to offer. Maybe we should stop catering them
> to
> the public who isn't interested in governance and instead use an opt-in
> system. This is actually something that's been on my mind for a while, but
> Alex's post made me start thinking a bit more about a workable
> implementation.
> I feel that this also goes along with my mantra of "You can be as member as
> you want to be".
>
> Perhaps we can modify the order of our weekly meeting agenda and repurpose
> the
> meeting to take on the full role of a governance mechanism.
>
> To start, here's a neat diagram that illustrates a common process for
> consensus:
>
> http://howtosavetheworld.ca/images/consensus.jpg
>
> Don't focus on the blocking. Instead, focus on how proposals come to be.
>
> First, an issue is presented. This includes the history of the issue, why
> it
> is important, and the goals of a discussion about the issue.
>
> The issue is then explored and discussed. We gather feelings about the
> topic
> and get a feel for what everyone thinks.
>
> Only after a general idea is formulated from the group feedback does a
> formal
> proposal come about. When a proposal is created, a number of advocates can
> take responsibility for working to reach consensus about it. These
> advocates
> don't need to share the same idea, but they do recognize the importance of
> the
> issue and that it needs to be solved. Without advocates, a formal, written
> proposal cannot be made.
>
> What I'm suggesting, is that the structure of our meeting should be changed
> to:
>
> * Introductions
> * Announcements
> * Membership
> * Financial Report
> * Consensus <--\
> ** Open Proposals   <--|
> ** Issue Discussion <--/
>
> Discussion and collaboration regarding announcements can happen outside of
> the
> meeting at a different time, or preferably on the discuss@ list. For
> example,
> announcing that you're working on a new project would be nice and would
> show
> up in the minutes, but the meeting wouldn't be used for that.
>
> Proposals would also be gone.
>
> Instead, Consensus would handle the process in that above diagram:
> Discussing
> and presenting current issues, followed by presenting a formal proposal.
> Anyone is free to bring up an issue at the space,