Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
Le 2013-04-06 13:53, John Crisp a écrit : Couple of reasons, first being that this was what was proposed and generally agreed by all the major contributors at the beginning of the year - please read the mailing list archives. It was agreed that we needed first to have an 'Inc' to make us look more professional (and protect the rights to SME if we choose), and then be able to use that to try and drive raising funds. No money, no honey. If we don't raise at least SOME funds, then SME goes nowhere. On an entirely practical basis, an 'Inc' might not do that much. Having one can't hurt. BUT. Having an 'Inc' does a couple of things psychologically. should also discuss where to "incorporate" and is a corporation the best solution. I am use to work both in France and Canada. In Canada where the system is close to the US, incorportation is the only way. Then you have to obtain the status of non profite corporation . You have to deal with tax declaration. In France with a different status you can avoid the mandatory tax declaration ( within certain conditions ) with a specific status called "association loi 1901". In Canada incorporation means 25% of board should be canadian or resident. I do not know what's about the US on this point. In France with such a status all administrators could be foreigners. Maybe there is similar opportunity let's say in Germany , Italy or any where else. ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 6:53 AM, John Crisp wrote: > >> My greatest single "thing" with SME is that it's often so hard to get it >> to do things that I regard as "normal" in a Linux system, but it's a >> tradeoff I've been making for over ten years and I haven't made the jump > > I am not sure why it is so 'hard'. Perhaps that should be a separate > topic, or add your requirements to the wishlist. That should be pretty obvious. For everthing where SME isn't already handling the process, besides the basic 'yum install' you would do on a stock CentOS, you have to (a) understand the configuration completely, (b) understand the SME templating system well enough to add the new targets, and (c) add all of the options you want to control to the web UI. And then the packaging needs to be rebuilt. If you think of SME as something that obfuscates the internal workings enough that people should have to pay consultants to make it usable, maybe you don't think that is a bad thing. If you think it should be easier for an end user to install and run than the underlying CentOS, then there is a problem. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
On 06/04/13 16:03, Nuno Rafael Gomes wrote: >> >> Having an 'Inc' does a couple of things psychologically. >> >> 1. We (collectively) have actually ACHIEVED >> something organizationally (aside from coding) here and now. >> 2. Sends a signal to others that WE CAN agree on something, AND implement >> it. >> 3. Shows businesses WE MEAN BUSINESS. > > > Totally agree with the above John's arguments. > > I will add the following to the "psychological side": > > 4. Shows other people that, besides producing great software, we also > BELIEVE in it. > 5. Shows other people and businesses that they can TRUST ON OUR ECOSYSTEM. > 6. Will trigger a POSITIVE MOVEMENT around the SME Server Ecosystem. > :-) Ah, some new ones for my list !!! Thanks Nuno. great comments. B. Rgds John ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
Hi all, My comments: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:53 PM, John Crisp wrote: > On 06/04/13 06:16, Daniel Rose wrote: > > On 06/04/13 09:54, Nuno Rafael Gomes wrote: > > >> > >> Do you (Developers, Contributors, Users of SME Server) think we need > >> some kind of formal/legal organization? > >> > >> If Yes, WHY? Please name your reasons. > >> > > > > Nope. Perhaps for limited liability for the developers/distributors in > > case a BadThing happens, but I don't see any possible way that it helps > > me, except that perhaps the donations might be tax-free. I can't see > > that as likely, so I don't see how it benefits anyone else. > > Having an 'Inc' does a couple of things psychologically. > > 1. We (collectively) have actually ACHIEVED > something organizationally (aside from coding) here and now. > 2. Sends a signal to others that WE CAN agree on something, AND implement > it. > 3. Shows businesses WE MEAN BUSINESS. Totally agree with the above John's arguments. I will add the following to the "psychological side": 4. Shows other people that, besides producing great software, we also BELIEVE in it. 5. Shows other people and businesses that they can TRUST ON OUR ECOSYSTEM. 6. Will trigger a POSITIVE MOVEMENT around the SME Server Ecosystem. Regards, -- Nuno Rafael Gomes ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
On 06/04/13 06:16, Daniel Rose wrote: > On 06/04/13 09:54, Nuno Rafael Gomes wrote: >> >> Do you (Developers, Contributors, Users of SME Server) think we need >> some kind of formal/legal organization? >> >> If Yes, WHY? Please name your reasons. >> > > Nope. Perhaps for limited liability for the developers/distributors in > case a BadThing happens, but I don't see any possible way that it helps > me, except that perhaps the donations might be tax-free. I can't see > that as likely, so I don't see how it benefits anyone else. > Couple of reasons, first being that this was what was proposed and generally agreed by all the major contributors at the beginning of the year - please read the mailing list archives. It was agreed that we needed first to have an 'Inc' to make us look more professional (and protect the rights to SME if we choose), and then be able to use that to try and drive raising funds. No money, no honey. If we don't raise at least SOME funds, then SME goes nowhere. On an entirely practical basis, an 'Inc' might not do that much. Having one can't hurt. BUT. Having an 'Inc' does a couple of things psychologically. 1. We (collectively) have actually ACHIEVED something organisationally (aside from coding) here and now 2. Sends a signal to others that we CAN agree on something, AND implement it 3. Shows businesses WE mean business. So far SME/contribs as a collective has done none of these things - remember the infrastructure and ideas were originally put in place by other companies And we need to appeal to businesses. They are the ones making money from SME, and the ones we need too appeal to, to put something back. They are also potential sponsors or advertisers etc etc > My greatest single "thing" with SME is that it's often so hard to get it > to do things that I regard as "normal" in a Linux system, but it's a > tradeoff I've been making for over ten years and I haven't made the jump I am not sure why it is so 'hard'. Perhaps that should be a separate topic, or add your requirements to the wishlist. > away from it yet. A legal entity is of no relevance to me at all. A legal entity may have no relevance to you, but you are only one ! It may well have relevance to many others. You need to look on a wider scale. B. Rgds John ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
On 06/04/13 09:54, Nuno Rafael Gomes wrote: Hi, > What are your thoughts about the importance of > incorporating/founding a new SME Server Legal Entity > to support/represent the SME Server distribution, > its Developers, Contributors and Users? The main and unique purpose of this question is the WHY: Do you (Developers, Contributors, Users of SME Server) think we need some kind of formal/legal organization? If Yes, WHY? Please name your reasons. Nope. Perhaps for limited liability for the developers/distributors in case a BadThing happens, but I don't see any possible way that it helps me, except that perhaps the donations might be tax-free. I can't see that as likely, so I don't see how it benefits anyone else. My greatest single "thing" with SME is that it's often so hard to get it to do things that I regard as "normal" in a Linux system, but it's a tradeoff I've been making for over ten years and I haven't made the jump away from it yet. A legal entity is of no relevance to me at all. ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
Hi, > What are your thoughts about the importance of > incorporating/founding a new SME Server Legal Entity > to support/represent the SME Server distribution, > its Developers, Contributors and Users? The main and unique purpose of this question is the WHY: Do you (Developers, Contributors, Users of SME Server) think we need some kind of formal/legal organization? If Yes, WHY? Please name your reasons. Regards, -- Nuno Rafael Gomes ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
Re: [discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
On 4/4/2013 3:22 PM, Nuno Rafael Gomes wrote: Hi all, Following our last discussion: What are your thoughts about the importance of incorporating/founding a new SME Server Legal Entity to support/represent the SME Server distribution, its Developers, Contributors and Users? Regards, Nuno Rafael Gomes Proposals do do exactly this have been floated at least three times in the recent past. In particular, Greg & I were trying to get something going on this in the recent past. You might want to review the history of the discussions in the mailing list over the past two years or so so that you understand why previous attempts have been unsuccessful. I, for one, would support a renewed push to get this done. Regards, Peter Walter ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
[discussion] SME Server Legal Entity
Hi all, Following our last discussion: What are your thoughts about the importance of incorporating/founding a new SME Server Legal Entity to support/represent the SME Server distribution, its Developers, Contributors and Users? Regards, Nuno Rafael Gomes ___ Discussion about project organisation and overall direction To unsubscribe, e-mail discussion-unsubscr...@lists.contribs.org Searchable archive at http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/discussion/
