Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Amir Eldor]

Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,

We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I see
it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
need).

The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl system
for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different solution
instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script that
converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever. This
is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something like the
Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s, easier to
administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do we want
Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with having the
sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead of wiki
edits?

Would like to hear your input,
  Amir
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Steve G.]

You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql or
another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.

It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.

I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from an
advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light footprint
and established wikis.

Z.


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:

> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
>
> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I
> see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
> need).
>
> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl system
> for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different solution
> instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script that
> converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever. This
> is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something like the
> Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s, easier to
> administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do we want
> Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with having the
> sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead of wiki
> edits?
>
> Would like to hear your input,
>   Amir
>
> ___
> Discussions mailing list
> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>



-- 
Sincerely,

Steve

http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Yaron Shahrabani]

I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
correct me if I'm wrong.

Yaron Shahrabani





On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:

> You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql or
> another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.
>
> It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
> individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
> permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
> editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.
>
> I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from an
> advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light footprint
> and established wikis.
>
> Z.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:
>
>> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
>>
>> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I
>> see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
>> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
>> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
>> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
>> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
>> need).
>>
>> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl system
>> for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different solution
>> instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script that
>> converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever. This
>> is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something like the
>> Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s, easier to
>> administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do we want
>> Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with having the
>> sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead of wiki
>> edits?
>>
>> Would like to hear your input,
>>   Amir
>>
>> ___
>> Discussions mailing list
>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>
> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>
> ___
> Discussions mailing list
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> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Steve G.]

Even if this was the original goal, we have evolved the discussion. If we
are looking for ease of use, features, and ease of admin, why stick to a
specific language? I don't happen to like perl - or know much about it, for
that matter - so I can just as easily go with a non-perl wiki...


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Yaron Shahrabani  wrote:

> I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
> correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>
>> You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql or
>> another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.
>>
>> It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
>> individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
>> permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
>> editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.
>>
>> I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from an
>> advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light footprint
>> and established wikis.
>>
>> Z.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
>>>
>>> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I
>>> see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
>>> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
>>> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
>>> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
>>> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
>>> need).
>>>
>>> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl system
>>> for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different solution
>>> instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script that
>>> converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever. This
>>> is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something like the
>>> Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s, easier to
>>> administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do we want
>>> Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with having
>>> the sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead of wiki
>>> edits?
>>>
>>> Would like to hear your input,
>>>   Amir
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Discussions mailing list
>>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
>>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>
>> ___
>> Discussions mailing list
>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>>
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,

Steve

http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Yaron Shahrabani]

Sadly it wasn't evolving the way you described although most of the
collaborators support your opinion.

Yaron Shahrabani





On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Steve G.  wrote:

> Even if this was the original goal, we have evolved the discussion. If we
> are looking for ease of use, features, and ease of admin, why stick to a
> specific language? I don't happen to like perl - or know much about it, for
> that matter - so I can just as easily go with a non-perl wiki...
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
>
>> I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
>> correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> Yaron Shahrabani
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>>
>>> You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql
>>> or another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.
>>>
>>> It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
>>> individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
>>> permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
>>> editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.
>>>
>>> I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from an
>>> advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light footprint
>>> and established wikis.
>>>
>>> Z.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:
>>>
 Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,

 We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I
 see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
 maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
 problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
 IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
 wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
 need).

 The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl
 system for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different
 solution instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script
 that converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever.
 This is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something
 like the Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s,
 easier to administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do
 we want Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with
 having the sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead
 of wiki edits?

 Would like to hear your input,
   Amir

 ___
 Discussions mailing list
 Discussions@hamakor.org.il
 http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>>
>>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Discussions mailing list
>>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
>>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>
> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Jaron de Leeuw]

What about gollum?  perhaps with smeagol to make it static?
https://github.com/gollum/gollum
https://github.com/rubyworks/smeagol

Jaron

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Yaron Shahrabani  wrote:

> Sadly it wasn't evolving the way you described although most of the
> collaborators support your opinion.
>
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>
>> Even if this was the original goal, we have evolved the discussion. If we
>> are looking for ease of use, features, and ease of admin, why stick to a
>> specific language? I don't happen to like perl - or know much about it, for
>> that matter - so I can just as easily go with a non-perl wiki...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
>>
>>> I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
>>> correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Yaron Shahrabani
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>>>
 You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql
 or another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.

 It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
 individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
 permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
 editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.

 I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from
 an advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light
 footprint and established wikis.

 Z.


 On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor wrote:

> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
>
> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As
> I see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
> need).
>
> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl
> system for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different
> solution instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script
> that converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever.
> This is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something
> like the Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s,
> easier to administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - 
> do
> we want Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with
> having the sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead
> of wiki edits?
>
> Would like to hear your input,
>   Amir
>
> ___
> Discussions mailing list
> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>



 --
 Sincerely,

 Steve

 http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

 http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection

 ___
 Discussions mailing list
 Discussions@hamakor.org.il
 http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>
>
>
> ___
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> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Tomer Cohen]

Please keep in mind that even WordPress can generate static content, and
while it is based on a language Mr. Gish doesn't like, it is by far more
user friendly than some custom scripts.

Tomer Cohen
http://tomercohen.com

(Sent from a mobile device 📱)
What about gollum?  perhaps with smeagol to make it static?
https://github.com/gollum/gollum
https://github.com/rubyworks/smeagol

Jaron

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Yaron Shahrabani  wrote:

> Sadly it wasn't evolving the way you described although most of the
> collaborators support your opinion.
>
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>
>> Even if this was the original goal, we have evolved the discussion. If we
>> are looking for ease of use, features, and ease of admin, why stick to a
>> specific language? I don't happen to like perl - or know much about it, for
>> that matter - so I can just as easily go with a non-perl wiki...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
>>
>>> I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
>>> correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Yaron Shahrabani
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>>>
 You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql
 or another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.

 It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
 individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
 permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
 editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.

 I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from
 an advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light
 footprint and established wikis.

 Z.


 On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor wrote:

> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
>
> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As
> I see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
> need).
>
> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl
> system for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different
> solution instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script
> that converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever.
> This is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something
> like the Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s,
> easier to administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - 
> do
> we want Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with
> having the sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead
> of wiki edits?
>
> Would like to hear your input,
>   Amir
>
> ___
> Discussions mailing list
> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>



 --
 Sincerely,

 Steve

 http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

 http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection

 ___
 Discussions mailing list
 Discussions@hamakor.org.il
 http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>
>
>
> ___
> Discussions mailing list
> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>


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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[moshe nahmias]

1. I can help with Ikiwiki too, I know perl so it will be easier for me (I
guess).
2. I don't think that scripts are a good way to deal with the problem, I
don't know how Ikiwiki works but if it's by scripts and that's why the
suggestions for other script languages were made then it's a mistake.
I think that if my asamption is right then wordpress is the better way to
go.


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Tomer Cohen  wrote:

> Please keep in mind that even WordPress can generate static content, and
> while it is based on a language Mr. Gish doesn't like, it is by far more
> user friendly than some custom scripts.
>
> Tomer Cohen
> http://tomercohen.com
>
> (Sent from a mobile device 📱)
> What about gollum?  perhaps with smeagol to make it static?
> https://github.com/gollum/gollum
> https://github.com/rubyworks/smeagol
>
> Jaron
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
>
>> Sadly it wasn't evolving the way you described although most of the
>> collaborators support your opinion.
>>
>> Yaron Shahrabani
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
>>
>>> Even if this was the original goal, we have evolved the discussion. If
>>> we are looking for ease of use, features, and ease of admin, why stick to a
>>> specific language? I don't happen to like perl - or know much about it, for
>>> that matter - so I can just as easily go with a non-perl wiki...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
>>>
 I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
 correct me if I'm wrong.

 Yaron Shahrabani

 



 On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:

> You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql
> or another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.
>
> It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
> individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
> permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
> editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.
>
> I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from
> an advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light
> footprint and established wikis.
>
> Z.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor wrote:
>
>> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
>>
>> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As
>> I see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
>> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
>> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
>> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit 
>> the
>> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
>> need).
>>
>> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl
>> system for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different
>> solution instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script
>> that converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever.
>> This is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something
>> like the Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s,
>> easier to administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - 
>> do
>> we want Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down
>> with having the sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests
>> instead of wiki edits?
>>
>> Would like to hear your input,
>>   Amir
>>
>> ___
>> Discussions mailing list
>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>
> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>
> ___
> Discussions mailing list
> Discussions@hamakor.org.il
> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
>


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>>
>>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Yaron,

On Mon, 8 Apr 2013 09:20:21 +0300
Yaron Shahrabani  wrote:

> I thought that the whole point of using IkiWiki was to avoid using PHP,
> correct me if I'm wrong.
> 

You are very wrong. Didn't you read my reasons for preferring Ikiwiki which is
a hybrid CMS that combines the advantages of both online CMSes such as Drupal,
MediaWiki, etc. and those of static site generators / offline CMSes? Please
read my emails closely three times. Bad Yaron! No cookie!! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bQOSRm9YiQ

;-)

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

> Yaron Shahrabani
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Steve G.  wrote:
> 
> > You can use PmWiki, which is in php, can be used with or without mysql or
> > another database, is very easy to maintain, can be edited online.
> >
> > It has multi-level granularity, you can give people access to edit
> > individual pages or groups of pages, etc. As far as I remember it has 3-4
> > permission levels, from read permission, to edit, to approve pages (for
> > editors/admins) to set passwords and administer the system.
> >
> > I have been using it for years without any problems and I am far from an
> > advanced user, coder or sysadmin. I am sure there are other light footprint
> > and established wikis.
> >
> > Z.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
> >>
> >> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I
> >> see it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
> >> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
> >> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
> >> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
> >> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
> >> need).
> >>
> >> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl system
> >> for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different solution
> >> instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script that
> >> converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever. This
> >> is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something like the
> >> Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s, easier to
> >> administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do we want
> >> Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with having the
> >> sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead of wiki
> >> edits?
> >>
> >> Would like to hear your input,
> >>   Amir
> >>
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> >> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
> >
> > http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
> >
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> > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
> >



-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
UNIX Fortune Cookies - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/

Chuck Norris *does* expect the Spanish Inquisition.
— http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Chuck-Norris/

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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Amir,

On Mon, 8 Apr 2013 03:49:59 +0300
Amir Eldor  wrote:

> Hello Shlomi and CC'ed list,
> 
> We have started playing around with IkiWiki on one of our servers. As I see
> it, there's a drawback of tough installation and possibly annoying
> maintenance. Not sure if I will have enough time to deal with bugs or
> problems in a timely manner if we are not to use HaMakor's funds for paid
> IkiWiki services. The good things about IkiWiki is the ability to edit the
> wiki online and its plugin system (although I'm not sure what plugins we
> need).
> 
> The alternative is to not shoot myself in the leg by using a Perl system
> for the job (although Shlomi likes Perl) and use a different solution
> instead. Two possibles are either making a small compiler-script that
> converts Markdown/whatever to HTML and version it with git/whatever. This
> is pretty close to using the second alternative which is something like the
> Ruby based like "serve ". The +'s, easier to
> administer than IkiWiki. The -'s, no online editing. The ?'s - do we want

If there is not going to be an online editing, then I don't see the advantage
of that, because there are plenty of static site generators (or "offline
CMSes") that I can use or hack myself, and the only reason Ikiwiki is
preferable over them is because it gives you online editing. And I can always
use a local instance of Ikiwiki for that.

> Wiki-like editing on Linux.org.il? or can we settle down with having the
> sources on GitHub/BItBucket and accepting pull-requests instead of wiki
> edits?

This already exists to an extent: 

https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/linux.org.il-new-site

> 
> Would like to hear your input,
>   Amir

Well, since the Hamakor board is not willing to pay for the Ikiwiki service, I
don't see what our alternatives are. I think it's a symptom of the general
unhealthy Israeli obsession of not being a "frayer" (or "sucker") where
many Israelis are not willing to pay extra money to save time, frustrations,
enjoy themselves, or even for helping their neighbour. See:

http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/open-source/gpl-bsd-and-suckerism/

Many Americans tend to have an unnatural obsession with not being "losers",
which is even worse, see:
http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/#the_technion_and_loser
( short URL - http://xrl.us/botq5z ), but I still think it's high time
Israelis realise that it's OK to be a "frayer", and spend a little money on
people and causes you care about, because it brings you joy, and especially if
you pay to save time, which is far more precious than money.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

-- 
-
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My Aphorisms - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html

Trust in God, but tie your camel.
— http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves

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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Tomer Cohen]

If Perl (or Rails or node.js for that matter) hosting is too expensive to
us while hosting other content management systems is far easier to
maintain, I don't see how we going forward with this discussion. Sorry
Shlomi, sometimes using the most efficient solution isn't the best solution
because we have limited resources after all.

Tomer Cohen
http://tomercohen.com

(Sent from a mobile device 📱)
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Amir Eldor]

Hello,

(After Tzafrit Cohen yelled at me a bit):
I was mistaken. I forgot to mention I had to install IkiWiki on a CentOS 6
system. Being unfamiliar with Perl, its modules, and RPM-based distros, it
took me a while to understand what I'm doing (bexol zot, psixometri
namoox). There's a .deb package for Debian and Debian-based distros for
IkiWiki. That makes installation easier, I tried it on a Debian host I own.

Oh, I've just remembered. The wiki default creation script of IkiWiki is a
bit weird. It creates the wiki under your $HOME, and then when moving it
around the filesystem to an appropriate location, you have to manually edit
the configuration file for that wiki and run a setup on it again. A minor
annoyance though.

Some points to make out about Linux.org.il's features as I see it now after
reading your emails:
 - It should be a Wiki editable online
 - Should be served as static HTML pages just because it sounds awesome
 - Should be based on text files rather than MySQL or other databases
engines, just because it's cool and you can distribute the content easily
that way on a GitHub/BitBucket instead of forcing users to start installing
database engines and distribute all kinds of database dumps

I'm hungry.

So I guess we are going to stick with IkiWiki and hope we won't have to use
a RPM-based distro on the final HaMakor server that will host the website.

Next steps:
 - Me learning how to theme IkiWiki (should be easy through one of its
plugins)
 - We deciding on who's going to graphically design the
Linux.org.ilwebsite :( - @board: are we willing to pay for this or do
we stick to some
ugly GIMP-based mockup that someone can hack for us?

Thanks,
  Amir


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Tomer Cohen  wrote:

> If Perl (or Rails or node.js for that matter) hosting is too expensive to
> us while hosting other content management systems is far easier to
> maintain, I don't see how we going forward with this discussion. Sorry
> Shlomi, sometimes using the most efficient solution isn't the best solution
> because we have limited resources after all.
>
> Tomer Cohen
> http://tomercohen.com
>
> (Sent from a mobile device 📱)
>
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[moshe nahmias]

Amir, if you need any help talk to me, I might not be the best perler here
but I can help :) same about the server (I use fedora so I can help with
rpm a bit)


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> (After Tzafrit Cohen yelled at me a bit):
> I was mistaken. I forgot to mention I had to install IkiWiki on a CentOS 6
> system. Being unfamiliar with Perl, its modules, and RPM-based distros, it
> took me a while to understand what I'm doing (bexol zot, psixometri
> namoox). There's a .deb package for Debian and Debian-based distros for
> IkiWiki. That makes installation easier, I tried it on a Debian host I own.
>
> Oh, I've just remembered. The wiki default creation script of IkiWiki is a
> bit weird. It creates the wiki under your $HOME, and then when moving it
> around the filesystem to an appropriate location, you have to manually edit
> the configuration file for that wiki and run a setup on it again. A minor
> annoyance though.
>
> Some points to make out about Linux.org.il's features as I see it now
> after reading your emails:
>  - It should be a Wiki editable online
>  - Should be served as static HTML pages just because it sounds awesome
>  - Should be based on text files rather than MySQL or other databases
> engines, just because it's cool and you can distribute the content easily
> that way on a GitHub/BitBucket instead of forcing users to start installing
> database engines and distribute all kinds of database dumps
>
> I'm hungry.
>
> So I guess we are going to stick with IkiWiki and hope we won't have to
> use a RPM-based distro on the final HaMakor server that will host the
> website.
>
> Next steps:
>  - Me learning how to theme IkiWiki (should be easy through one of its
> plugins)
>  - We deciding on who's going to graphically design the Linux.org.ilwebsite 
> :( - @board: are we willing to pay for this or do we stick to some
> ugly GIMP-based mockup that someone can hack for us?
>
> Thanks,
>   Amir
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Tomer Cohen  wrote:
>
>> If Perl (or Rails or node.js for that matter) hosting is too expensive to
>> us while hosting other content management systems is far easier to
>> maintain, I don't see how we going forward with this discussion. Sorry
>> Shlomi, sometimes using the most efficient solution isn't the best solution
>> because we have limited resources after all.
>>
>> Tomer Cohen
>> http://tomercohen.com
>>
>> (Sent from a mobile device 📱)
>>
>
>
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Amit Aronovitch]

Some comments below (don't worry - no actual contributions - just being
conversational - skip if your'e busy)


>  On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Amir Eldor  wrote:
>
>>  Hello,
>>
>> (After Tzafrit Cohen yelled at me a bit):
>> I was mistaken. I forgot to mention I had to install IkiWiki on a CentOS
>> 6 system.
>>
>

Free clones of "enterprise" distros are about the worst possible choice of
OS for a volunteer-based org (little/no community support, outdated package
base, no option for support contracts). But I guess you can't look a gift
horse in the mouth...



>  Being unfamiliar with Perl, its modules, and RPM-based distros, it took
>> me a while to understand what I'm doing (bexol zot, psixometri namoox).
>> There's a .deb package for Debian and Debian-based distros for IkiWiki.
>> That makes installation easier, I tried it on a Debian host I own.
>>
>> Oh, I've just remembered. The wiki default creation script of IkiWiki is
>> a bit weird. It creates the wiki under your $HOME, and then when moving it
>> around the filesystem to an appropriate location, you have to manually edit
>> the configuration file for that wiki and run a setup on it again. A minor
>> annoyance though.
>>
>> Some points to make out about Linux.org.il's features as I see it now
>> after reading your emails:
>>  - It should be a Wiki editable online
>>   - Should be served as static HTML pages just because it sounds awesome
>>  - Should be based on text files rather than MySQL or other databases
>> engines, just because it's cool and you can distribute the content easily
>> that way on a GitHub/BitBucket instead of forcing users to start installing
>> database engines and distribute all kinds of database dumps
>>
>> I'm hungry.
>>
>>
Hope you got something to eat. This is really important :-)



>  So I guess we are going to stick with IkiWiki and hope we won't have to
>> use a RPM-based distro on the final HaMakor server that will host the
>> website.
>>
>>

It's not the package format you should worry about. RPM's work nicely with
proper management tools (they can even work with apt). Just stay away from
Enterprise distros and their clones if you can (unless you have resident
linux gurus on payroll and/or support contract. or few very special cases I
can think of). With a community-driven distro like e.g. Fedora, you are
very likely to find all packages you need a click away. Anyways, I believe
that Hamakor runs Ubuntu - so you are fine there.



> Next steps:
>>  - Me learning how to theme IkiWiki (should be easy through one of its
>> plugins)
>>  - We deciding on who's going to graphically design the Linux.org.ilwebsite 
>> :( - @board: are we willing to pay for this or do we stick to some
>> ugly GIMP-based mockup that someone can hack for us?
>>
>>
Two separate issues:
1) logos/etc (which are possible to do in GIMP, but better if you use some
vector program) - it is quite possible to get nice graphics from volunteers
here. Look for the people that produced the stickers / T shirts etc. for AP
or other community sites/events. Post suggestions on the wiki and ask for
feedback.
2) The page design (css, html templates) - this is the kind of thing that
people are more likely to complain about than contribute - I would not hope
too high (btw - does ikiwiki use some specific template engine? Does it
have a theme/skin facility?)

AA
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Re: Linux.org.il, or how I like HaMakor's discussions for this stuff

[Amir Eldor]

Message below:

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Amit Aronovitch wrote:

> Some comments below (don't worry - no actual contributions - just being
> conversational - skip if your'e busy)
>
>
>>  On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Amir Eldor wrote:
>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> (After Tzafrit Cohen yelled at me a bit):
>>> I was mistaken. I forgot to mention I had to install IkiWiki on a CentOS
>>> 6 system.
>>>
>>
>
> Free clones of "enterprise" distros are about the worst possible choice of
> OS for a volunteer-based org (little/no community support, outdated package
> base, no option for support contracts). But I guess you can't look a gift
> horse in the mouth...
>
>
Actually I can give the horse back and ask for a south-African horse in
this case. Will probably do so.


>
>
>>  Being unfamiliar with Perl, its modules, and RPM-based distros, it took
>>> me a while to understand what I'm doing (bexol zot, psixometri namoox).
>>> There's a .deb package for Debian and Debian-based distros for IkiWiki.
>>> That makes installation easier, I tried it on a Debian host I own.
>>>
>>> Oh, I've just remembered. The wiki default creation script of IkiWiki is
>>> a bit weird. It creates the wiki under your $HOME, and then when moving it
>>> around the filesystem to an appropriate location, you have to manually edit
>>> the configuration file for that wiki and run a setup on it again. A minor
>>> annoyance though.
>>>
>>> Some points to make out about Linux.org.il's features as I see it now
>>> after reading your emails:
>>>  - It should be a Wiki editable online
>>>   - Should be served as static HTML pages just because it sounds awesome
>>>  - Should be based on text files rather than MySQL or other databases
>>> engines, just because it's cool and you can distribute the content easily
>>> that way on a GitHub/BitBucket instead of forcing users to start installing
>>> database engines and distribute all kinds of database dumps
>>>
>>> I'm hungry.
>>>
>>>
> Hope you got something to eat. This is really important :-)
>
>
:(


>
>
>>  So I guess we are going to stick with IkiWiki and hope we won't have to
>>> use a RPM-based distro on the final HaMakor server that will host the
>>> website.
>>>
>>>
>
> It's not the package format you should worry about. RPM's work nicely with
> proper management tools (they can even work with apt). Just stay away from
> Enterprise distros and their clones if you can (unless you have resident
> linux gurus on payroll and/or support contract. or few very special cases I
> can think of). With a community-driven distro like e.g. Fedora, you are
> very likely to find all packages you need a click away. Anyways, I believe
> that Hamakor runs Ubuntu - so you are fine there.
>
>
Is there a 'Fedora server' thing? Will ask Google and Wikipedia. I thought
Fedora is the desktop kind of RHEL and CentOS the server guy. Ignore these
last few sentences please I will have my own research I guess.


>
>
>> Next steps:
>>>  - Me learning how to theme IkiWiki (should be easy through one of its
>>> plugins)
>>>  - We deciding on who's going to graphically design the Linux.org.ilwebsite 
>>> :( - @board: are we willing to pay for this or do we stick to some
>>> ugly GIMP-based mockup that someone can hack for us?
>>>
>>>
> Two separate issues:
> 1) logos/etc (which are possible to do in GIMP, but better if you use some
> vector program) - it is quite possible to get nice graphics from volunteers
> here. Look for the people that produced the stickers / T shirts etc. for AP
> or other community sites/events. Post suggestions on the wiki and ask for
> feedback.
> 2) The page design (css, html templates) - this is the kind of thing that
> people are more likely to complain about than contribute - I would not hope
> too high (btw - does ikiwiki use some specific template engine? Does it
> have a theme/skin facility?)
>
>
1) I'm too much of a perfectionist to produce something with GIMP or
Inkscape, but sometimes I get the muse and all is becoming nicer. That's
for logos and small stuff, but  a whole site design is harder to produce
and takes more time.

2) I would gladly build the CSS and HTML, since I've started using stuff
like http://960.gs/ or http://unsemantic.com/ the world of CSS became a bit
less painful. Ikiwiki comes with a theme facility and/or local.css for each
repository. This should be fun.


> AA
>
>
AE
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