Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N

[Lucy Brennan]

I read Wikipedia and Django docs. Now, after all this debate, I see that I 
_did_ understand the definitions when I first read it. 

Given those definitions however, the meaning of USE_I18N and USE_L10N are 
not obvious. Far, far, far from obvious. There _absolutely_ has to be some 
additional explanation of what those two settings does. How can you even 
think that it is obvious???

So since I could not figure that out, I started looking for explanations. 
And somewhere I found, that the settings meant respectively: translation and 
localized formatting. And that is why I sent this post on quite a detour. 
Sorry about that. 

Do you people realize that if a newbie reads a) Wikipedia on I/L b) Django 
on I/L, c) this thread. They will still not understand what those two 
settings do! 

@ Russell: I would not hesitate to help writing the documentation. But I 
simply don't know what those settings do. So I can't write it. (tragicomic 
smiley)

Lucy

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Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N

[Lucy Brennan]

Did anybody read the links I supplied. Or maybe you were busy plussing on 
Google+ :)

So there seems to be two pairs of definitions for I18N / L10N:

a) I18N / L10N ~ (building software so ready to be 
locale-language-customized  /  making a specific localized version )

b) I18N / L10N ~ (translation/localized formatting)

When reading Wikipedia 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization). I 
understand the option a), and I don't think they mention that the terms can 
have different meanings. When reading Django's article 
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/, I get exactly the same 
understanding. 

People in this thread talk about meaning b) as if it is a long established 
meaning and common knowledge. So I guess it is. But I did not find anything 
describing this meaning when I was trying to figure out what USE_L10N and 
USE_I18N meant. 

So if you are so certain that I18N / L10N are common knowledge for 
translation/localized formatting, I suggest that you add that knowledge to 
the abovementioned Wikipedia article and Django documentation article. 

Furthermore, the 
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/settings/?from=olddocs#use-i18n, 
should not just say that it will "turn off the internationalization 
machinery", since that is not helpful unless "internationalization 
machinery" is defined. And come on, why not just add that this is 
translation. 


Lucy

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Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N

[Lucy Brennan]

Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In 
Django:

USE_I18N: translation
USE_L10N: localized formatting

Right?

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Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N

[Lucy Brennan]

Sorry for the late response to your reply. For some reason, I did not
get your response to my email. I only saw your answer because I went
to the online archive.

Here is a follow up for the googlers.

I have read the Django documentation, e.g.: 
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/,
which in my opinion says just about the same as Wikipedia, regarding
the meaning of those two words.

The Internationalization article (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/
dev/topics/i18n/internationalization/), explains about
internationalization in Django, but does not explain what it means to
disable/enable it. I guess that disabling internationalization means
disabling translation.

The Localization article (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/
i18n/internationalization/), explains about Localization in Django,
and mentions in short about the USE_L10N parameter. Apparently it
decides if localized formatting of e.g. dates should be used.

For both the USE_L10N and USE_I18N their effect is not obvious from
their naming. I suggest, that the description of these parameters in
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/settings/?from=olddocs are
made more precise.

>From what I understand, they should have had names like
USE_TRANSLATION and USE_LOCALIZED_FORMATTING.

Lucy



On Jul 18, 1:36 pm, Shawn Milochik  wrote:
> If you look up those terms in the Django docs instead of Wikipedia I think
> that will erase your confusion.

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USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N

[Lucy Brennan]

I believe I understand the general definitions of internationalization
and localization, e.g. as defined on 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization.
Internationalization is somewhat like building/designing a piece of
software for being used with different locales. And localization is
then making some localized version withing the boundaries set by the ,
e.g. making all the translated versions and date formatting for
Germany.

According to those definitions, I think it makes sense to "turn off
i18n and l10n". But what does it mean to turn of one and not the
other?

They only make sense in relation to each other, and turning one of
without turning the other off, does not make sense to me.

I don't think it is obvious what they do?

Lucy

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